With The Wind with Dr. Paul - Show 162; Pediatric Perspectives: -Reviewing Turtles All The Way Down With Zoey O'TooleSpeakers:Dr. Paul 36.65%
Zoey O'Toole 63.35% 
00:00:59:18 - 00:01:20:36
Dr. Paul
Good morning. CHD. Welcome to Pediatric Perspectives, where we are looking at children's health challenges from a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking. One that's not afraid to give you the honest truth. I'm your host, Doctor Paul. Welcome. Zoe O'Toole. It is so great to have you back on the show. I am just so eager to dig deep into turtles.
 
00:01:20:38 - 00:01:34:26
Dr. Paul
So you are editor for Turtles All the Way Down. Probably the most important book I've read in the last couple of years. And, I've just been eager to pick your brain about this. So, thank you for joining us again.
 
00:01:34:36 - 00:01:37:46
Zoey O’Toole
You are so welcome. I love talking about this book.
 
00:01:37:51 - 00:02:07:04
Dr. Paul
Oh, good. So, folks who may not know, Zoe, if this is your first time meeting her, she was the editor of the blog Thinking Moms Revolution. She's a writer and editor of many books, many articles, publishing coordinator for Ph.D.. And, of course, as we dive into turtles all the way down. This is a book you will want to have in your library and and read if you can at least get skimmed through some of this.
 
00:02:07:06 - 00:02:25:17
Dr. Paul
It is so important what I got from it. I mean, I've been researching this vaccine issue for two decades, and the for me was what? Not a single vaccine on the childhood schedule has had an actual, real, inert placebo.
 
00:02:25:22 - 00:02:36:20
Zoey O’Toole
Like, yeah. Yeah. So that's that's chapter one free online too, by the way. So, I get and I will give, the producer the quote, the link to that.
 
00:02:36:25 - 00:02:36:46
Dr. Paul
Okay.
 
00:02:36:59 - 00:02:38:28
Zoey O’Toole
The thing but you'll.
 
00:02:38:29 - 00:03:03:52
Dr. Paul
You'll have a link to get chapter one for free online. And of course, you can order the book as well. So it it if, if no vaccine has been properly tested for safety, which is a fact. That should just anybody watching and listening right now should go what. Because that just doesn't make any sense. So why why do you think that is?
 
00:03:03:57 - 00:03:31:10
Zoey O’Toole
Okay, well, the there are two ways they, they get around doing, trials with real placebo controls. The first one is that they compare it to a previous vaccine. So say you're testing Prevnar 13 and you, you want to do a clinical trial. So what they do is they would test prevnar 13 against prevnar seven, which B would be the previous version of the vaccine.
 
00:03:31:15 - 00:03:56:11
Zoey O’Toole
And then they would compare the adverse events in one group to the adverse events in another group. And as you can imagine, if you're comparing prevnar 13 to Prevnar seven, the adverse events are going to be pretty similar. So at that point, they'll say because those are similar, that the new one is safe because the old one was safe.
 
00:03:56:16 - 00:04:28:01
Zoey O’Toole
Now, what they don't tell you is that that old one was never tested against a placebo control either. That one would have been tested against either. Pregnant was not for me. Is like the the supreme example because the original Prevnar was tested against an experimental meningitis vaccine. Now, most of the meningitis vaccines are pretty high when it comes to, numbers of adverse events in the first place.
 
00:04:28:06 - 00:05:01:07
Zoey O’Toole
Then you talk about the fact that it's an extra mental vaccine, and they have the nerve to call this the control group so that that one is my, my, the one that just makes me furious. But then there are other ones where they they test it not against the the placebo is the vaccine without the antigen. And they pretend that that makes sense as a, as a comparator because it's very close.
 
00:05:01:08 - 00:05:22:11
Zoey O’Toole
So the only difference then is the thing that makes it a vaccine, but it's not the only thing that makes it a vaccine, as you and I know, the vaccine. Anything in the vaccines formulation can cause some kind of immune reaction. So they're not the inactive ingredients that they're pretending that they are. So that's how they get away with it.
 
00:05:22:13 - 00:05:54:34
Zoey O’Toole
Now why do they get away with it? They get away with it. Because if you look at the actual numbers of adverse events for these clinical trials, you'll see that 1 in 22 kids are sent to the hospital with an out with a fever and whatever. This is not something that would happen with a placebo control. So they don't want you to know that these things are actually having a great impact upon your infants justice system.
 
00:05:54:39 - 00:05:55:53
Dr. Paul
Yeah. Significant.
 
00:05:56:01 - 00:05:56:44
Zoey O’Toole
Significant.
 
00:05:56:54 - 00:06:25:27
Dr. Paul
Significant health challenges directly caused by the vaccine. Exactly. Yeah. I remember in the, you know, I, I came into practice as a pediatrician in, 1985, and I left medical school, finished my pediatric training in 1988. And that was right around the time. Well, 2 or 3 years later, we switched from the old wholesale DPT to the acellular DPT and the acellular Japan had already been using for about seven years.
 
00:06:25:27 - 00:06:38:07
Dr. Paul
We knew it was a lot safer, but, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading in your in the turtles book, that the trials for the acellular used the whole cell dpt as their control.
 
00:06:38:11 - 00:06:40:17
Zoey O’Toole
Yeah. So of course it comes off as safe.
 
00:06:40:26 - 00:06:59:27
Dr. Paul
Yeah. So they're using what we knew was a dangerous vaccine. I mean, I dreaded giving that vaccine. Almost every kid got super high fevers, high rates of seizures, and there were deaths I thankfully didn't. Well, I, I may have had one death. It was it was not on my watch, but it was in my clinic as I was in training.
 
00:06:59:32 - 00:07:21:00
Dr. Paul
And I was supervising other people. But yeah, that was a scary, scary vaccine. So if that's your placebo, that's your control. And the new vaccine looks great. The vaccine executives I mean these people who who own these companies on the boards, I mean who are they obligated to. Is it, is it the public or individual health.
 
00:07:21:05 - 00:07:27:14
Zoey O’Toole
They are legally obligated to their shareholders first and foremost.
 
00:07:27:19 - 00:07:34:01
Dr. Paul
So wait a minute, I thought I thought vaccine companies were doing good in the world.
 
00:07:34:06 - 00:07:41:42
Zoey O’Toole
Oh, yeah, they're doing this out of the the goodness of their hearts, right? They're so selfless.
 
00:07:41:47 - 00:07:43:26
Dr. Paul
I think you're being sarcastic.
 
00:07:43:26 - 00:08:02:47
Zoey O’Toole
I think in fines for for their fraudulent business practices. But we're suddenly going to think that they're going to behave like little angels when it comes to vaccines. Of course not. Especially now that they're very, very profitable. Look at the HPV vaccine is an offensive vaccine.
 
00:08:02:52 - 00:08:10:50
Dr. Paul
Yeah, the profits are getting ridiculous. Well, where does the funding come then for their vaccine research?
 
00:08:10:54 - 00:08:37:24
Zoey O’Toole
Well, that's interesting because, a lot of it's directly from the pharmaceutical companies, right? When they're doing their, their clinical trials, they are doing their own. There's no government. There's oversight insofar as that they have to fulfill the FDA's requirements. But the FDA is not requiring them to compare their vaccines to a regular placebo like they would for a normal drug.
 
00:08:37:29 - 00:08:59:18
Zoey O’Toole
Vaccines are biologics, and they have slightly different, requirements. And they the FDA approves these clinical trials every time. So the FDA knows what's going on here, and they're letting them get away with it. It's business as usual. That is the standard practice for, vaccine clinical trial.
 
00:08:59:23 - 00:09:21:55
Dr. Paul
Yeah. You use the word biologics, and it triggered a memory of mine. So on our last interview, you were talking about what you wished you had known was not to do hepatitis B for newborns. I want the listeners to understand that when you sign into the hospital in America, in the United States, to have a baby, there's all this legal stuff, and it's not even on paper anymore.
 
00:09:21:55 - 00:09:43:50
Dr. Paul
It's on the computer. And who's got time to sit there and read pages and pages of fine print? Somewhere in that fine print, you have given permission for biologics. That is code for the hepatitis B vaccine that's going to be given to your newborn, usually in the first hour of birth. Welcome to the world. Here's 250 micrograms of aluminum, a massive toxic dose for something they're not at any risk for.
 
00:09:43:54 - 00:10:00:23
Dr. Paul
Yep. So thank you for reminding me of that biologics thing. Just parents. If you have a hospital birth, you can never let that baby out of your sight and you don't want any injections going into them. I mean, vitamin K if you have to, if you must, if you want to. That's different. But that's a whole nother whole story.
 
00:10:00:23 - 00:10:11:13
Dr. Paul
But better make sure it's vitamin K because there's too many of my patients got a shot they thought was vitamin K later to learn it was the hep B. Oops, sorry, we made a mistake. Yeah,
 
00:10:11:18 - 00:10:12:03
Zoey O’Toole
A lot too.
 
00:10:12:08 - 00:10:33:17
Dr. Paul
Yeah. So how reliable is the science that is published in journals? I mean, to laugh. Pediatricians, doctors in general were busy. You know, we get a bunch of journals across our desk every week. If not, it's certainly every month. A lot of them are throwaway journals funded by the pharmaceutical industry. But there's also what we thought of as reliable journals.
 
00:10:33:17 - 00:10:48:41
Dr. Paul
The journal called Pediatrics, the American, Jama, the Journal, American Medical Association, New England Journal of Medicine, these are all those, you know, supposedly super reliable journals. What's your thought about the science they're publishing these days?
 
00:10:48:51 - 00:11:19:51
Zoey O’Toole
There's a chapter in turtles. Where the authors go through five different studies. They're epidemiological studies that are sponsored by either the CDC or the NIH, and they are they're horrible. They're absolutely terrible studies. And for the most part, they are, published in one of these high impact journals like you mentioned. And I would also include The Lancet and the BMJ in particular.
 
00:11:19:56 - 00:11:51:17
Zoey O’Toole
And then there are the, the other kinds of journals, nature, that, that get some of this kind of thing. But usually it's in the medical journal specifically. So so what you'll see is that there are numerous techniques that are used to get the answer that people want, and that the sponsoring organization wants either the pharmaceutical companies or the CDC or the NIH.
 
00:11:51:17 - 00:12:14:06
Zoey O’Toole
They want you to come out saying that the vaccines are safe and effective, and they're the most important medical thing we've ever done. And that way we can protect the vaccine program. And that's actually literally said, stated in some of these, these studies too, like they'll, they'll say it's so important that that's why we looked at this.
 
00:12:14:11 - 00:12:50:03
Zoey O’Toole
But what you'll find if you read this chapter is that the way they look at it is really invalid for creating any real scientific, conclusion. Now. These are high impact journals. These are important, prestigious journals. How are they letting them get away with this? Well, people say peer review. Peer review should prevent that. But as the book discusses and I've seen further discussed in other places, peer review does not function as people think it does.
 
00:12:50:03 - 00:13:11:36
Zoey O’Toole
It's not a scientific process. It often boils down to the editor gets this paper, says, oh, it's about such and such. I know a couple of people who who do this work, and they send the paper off to those people. And if one person says publish and the other person says don't publish, they send it off to a third person who works as a tiebreaker.
 
00:13:11:41 - 00:13:41:23
Zoey O’Toole
Now, this this means that it's fairly random, which things get published, in which things don't end. And this same person, I think, was Smith, said that, he knew an editor who said that he, he wanted to run an issue that was only papers that had failed peer review to see if people would guess. And then, no, someone had actually suggested it to him.
 
00:13:41:23 - 00:14:11:35
Zoey O’Toole
And then he he said to those people, how do you know I haven't done that? So that's how almost random the peer review process works. And then Marcia Angell, who was the editor at the New England Journal of Medicine for a whole bunch of years, she wrote a book about the truth about pharmaceutical companies, and she talks about how at this point in time, they are really running the journals.
 
00:14:11:39 - 00:14:45:00
Zoey O’Toole
They run their own. They basically can get published whatever they want published. And one of the reasons why they can do that is because these journals get large fees for what they call reprints. So those fees will be paid by pharmaceutical companies for something that they really want to have printed. So say a pharmaceutical company, wants a really good review of Gardasil to be be published in their their journal and in this journal.
 
00:14:45:05 - 00:15:10:39
Zoey O’Toole
They will then pay for 10,000 copies of this, this article to hand out to pediatrician all over the world or all over the country. And that will be a huge source of income for the journal, so that now the journal has a conflict of interest. They want to keep their pharmaceutical customers very happy. And people don't know that this this is going on.
 
00:15:10:44 - 00:15:35:02
Dr. Paul
Wow. So I just had an there. So I was a pediatrician in the trenches for 35 years, and pharmaceutical reps would come to the office and buy us lunch and share information. And I thought, well, it's a good way to get informed to see what's out there. Initially I wasn't even aware that I was being hoodwinked, even after I realized what they were doing, I continued to do it.
 
00:15:35:07 - 00:15:52:27
Dr. Paul
I'm guilty of that because my staff liked the free lunch, and I was actually curious. I wanted to grill these people, you know, on on. Whoa, wait a minute. How about this, this, this and that, like Gardasil is when I remember the initial package, the initial package insert showed so many deaths in the trial. I'm gone. Come on.
 
00:15:52:27 - 00:16:18:03
Dr. Paul
Why would anybody put this in a kid's body? Right? It was just so obvious. And they just sort of sidestepped it. But yes, they would bring those reprints that are, you know, nice glossy reprints. So the ones obviously they had to pay for. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah. It's it's very, very problematic. I don't anymore when I see articles in journals, I almost assume that it's been manipulated.
 
00:16:18:03 - 00:16:20:56
Dr. Paul
It's sad, but but that's the truth of the matter.
 
00:16:21:01 - 00:16:28:05
Zoey O’Toole
Many editors will tell you that at least half of it is just not true. You know, kids.
 
00:16:28:09 - 00:16:44:05
Dr. Paul
And I know from personal experience, I tried to publish an article showing the data from my practice back in 2015. Couldn't get a journal to look at it because they will send it out. It's about vaccines and showing vaccines in a negative light, and they will send that off to people they know will reject it. And so it goes nowhere.
 
00:16:44:16 - 00:16:49:35
Dr. Paul
It just never goes nowhere. Wow, I hear that.
 
00:16:49:40 - 00:16:57:43
Zoey O’Toole
I remember reading in the vaccine friendly plan that data and thinking it's just the kind of thing that should be in a journal, right?
 
00:16:57:48 - 00:17:04:33
Dr. Paul
Oh my gosh, I had so many things that should be in a journal. Yeah, I just didn't know how to do it. I was just a busy clinician.
 
00:17:04:38 - 00:17:12:27
Zoey O’Toole
Well, I'm glad you continued on and did more later even that though, that got retracted because yeah.
 
00:17:12:32 - 00:17:19:28
Dr. Paul
Yeah. So we hear that vaccines are safe and effective. What what did turtles have to say about that?
 
00:17:19:33 - 00:17:20:58
Zoey O’Toole
Well.
 
00:17:21:03 - 00:17:22:53
Dr. Paul
Do you have to say about that.
 
00:17:22:58 - 00:17:45:35
Zoey O’Toole
What turtle says and what what, I had already learned from my own, research, and I loved working on turtles because, I knew all that, that stuff to a large extent. And there was a lot of back and forth between me and the authors. What it says is that, so we all know that there's been a lot of, vaccine controversy in recent years.
 
00:17:45:35 - 00:18:24:14
Zoey O’Toole
And the the main issue is safety. We can talk about safety and efficacy, but if the vaccines are not safe, it doesn't really matter how effective they are because you're giving them to healthy children, right? You're giving them to healthy children. So there should be a very, very high bar for safety. And the science on safety should be unequivocal, saying that, yes, they are truly safe for all you know, all children who will get them or or we should be able to carve out the, the children who they're not going to be safe for.
 
00:18:24:24 - 00:18:53:23
Zoey O’Toole
Well, that is absolutely not the case. If you read Turtles, you will see that the safety science is lacking in every single phase. It's lacking from the pre licensure studies. It's lacking when it comes to, adverse event reporting. It is lacking when it comes to what adverse events are truly connected to the vaccine. And how does this mechanism happen.
 
00:18:53:36 - 00:19:26:11
Zoey O’Toole
And what can you do to prevent treat or or just make it less likely to happen? And none of that science has been done. So that tells you that whether or not they are safe, the science hasn't been done to indicate that they are safe. Now they've been dealing with parents, worrying about the safety for at least 15 years, and really for much longer than that.
 
00:19:26:11 - 00:19:56:38
Zoey O’Toole
But for the last 15 years, these parents have been very vocal, and they've been able to get TV time and they've been able to get lots of, articles written all over so they know parents have been concerned about safety for 15 years. You would think, if they could demonstrate that vaccines truly are safe, they would have done so in the most effective and convincing way possible.
 
00:19:56:38 - 00:20:15:41
Zoey O’Toole
Now, the most effective and convincing way possible would be to do what you did and compare numerous health outcomes in children who have been fully vaccinated, according to the CDC schedule and children who have never been vaccinated at all. The CDC has never done that.
 
00:20:15:46 - 00:20:38:47
Dr. Paul
Which is shocking. Right. This so as that book and your research has shown vaccine trials are a sham, they're a joke. So they only look at a few little parameters, oftentimes parameters that don't even matter. Right. They only look for a very short period of time, sometimes only days. And they don't look at all health outcomes and they don't have an actual placebo.
 
00:20:38:57 - 00:21:01:59
Dr. Paul
So basically we know nothing from the vaccine trials. We just don't know. So it's on faith that you would inject such a product into your baby. And, I've seen the meme where it says something like, I'm supposed to read the labels for the ingredients I feed my baby, but I'm going to inject all these weird sounding toxic substances into my baby without concern.
 
00:21:02:03 - 00:21:13:18
Dr. Paul
It's insanity. That is. So we have Vas, and we know it's not working very well, and we've covered that a bit. But there was a Harvard Pilgrim study, and I know you've covered this.
 
00:21:13:29 - 00:21:14:43
Zoey O’Toole
Yeah.
 
00:21:14:48 - 00:21:23:29
Dr. Paul
Talk a little bit about that, because I think it was probably one of the most important eye opening things that I've read when it comes to adverse events.
 
00:21:23:34 - 00:21:49:57
Zoey O’Toole
So the CDC knows that theirs is a terrible system. It is passive, meaning that they don't solicit reports. And it's also not required, as you've said. In in our previous, discussion, the pediatricians, they don't know how to recognize the vaccine reaction. They don't know, they don't want to spend the time it takes to report the reaction.
 
00:21:50:02 - 00:22:23:20
Zoey O’Toole
So at some point, someone had the bright idea to to automate reporting. And it was a great idea. This group, headed by Ross Lazarus at Harvard, set up a system piggybacking off a system that was already in place, a network that was already set up. They set up a system to to monitor vaccine appointments and then monitor the appointments that happened after the vaccines.
 
00:22:23:25 - 00:22:48:57
Zoey O’Toole
And what they found was that there were a lot of, appointments that should have been flagged as potential vaccine reactions. So they they systematically did this. They figured out what things to look for. And then what they would do is they would email the the doctor and say, we think, you know, this might be a vaccine reaction.
 
00:22:48:57 - 00:23:00:54
Zoey O’Toole
Do you want to report it to theirs? And then the report would automatically happen. Well, what they found was that.
 
00:23:00:59 - 00:23:50:16
Zoey O’Toole
They flagged many, many, many, many more situations than, a pediatrician would have picked up in the first place. And they found that even though pediatricians often said, no, this isn't a vaccine reaction, that they were still reporting something like 30 times more than they had been before beforehand. And what they also discovered was that there was a very high number of these reactions, and they actually calculated that it was approximately 1 in 10 people who are vaccinated in that time frame who had experienced a reportable event, and that that's hardly the 1 in 1 in a million that you have to see all the time, right?
 
00:23:50:16 - 00:23:51:20
Zoey O’Toole
1 in 10.
 
00:23:51:20 - 00:23:53:24
Dr. Paul
1 in 10, as opposed to 1 in 1,000,000.
 
00:23:53:29 - 00:24:17:02
Zoey O’Toole
So they're not necessarily talking about devastating permanent neurological injury, but they are talking about, you know, fevers and going to the hospital and this disrupted, digestion afterwards and all kinds of things like that, that, that are the things that you would take a child in to a doctor for in the weeks following a vaccine visit.
 
00:24:17:07 - 00:24:42:00
Zoey O’Toole
So they found this out and they put it in a report, and then they were supposed to take this pilot study that worked so well, and they were supposed to expand it to more and more networks so that there would be a lot better adverse event reporting, and we'd have real data then to work from in the Vaccine Adverse Event reporting system, unlike the way the system is now.
 
00:24:42:05 - 00:24:53:04
Zoey O’Toole
So what happened when when, Ross Lazarus submitted this report and asked to when when are we going to go on to phase two? The CDC never returned his calls.
 
00:24:53:09 - 00:24:56:08
Dr. Paul
Yeah. He ceased to exist.
 
00:24:56:12 - 00:24:57:07
Zoey O’Toole
Yep.
 
00:24:57:12 - 00:25:16:44
Dr. Paul
You know, that was a tragedy. So many tragedies we've had around this topic. We touched on briefly the vaccine vax studies. Are you familiar of any studies that are out there? Vaccine vax that can kind of at least shed a little bit of light on on the scope of problems?
 
00:25:16:49 - 00:25:39:34
Zoey O’Toole
Well, you know, there are the two months and studies and, I don't like to talk about them too much because there's surveys and surveys are always a little problematic. And, but but, you know, there are surveys on the other side. So they're worth talking about. And they definitely do show that, they were surveys, particularly of, the homeschooled population.
 
00:25:39:39 - 00:26:07:33
Zoey O’Toole
And they did show that, the vaccinated kids were getting a lot more chronic conditions like asthma, allergies. There are neurodevelopmental issues that you and I know are immune mediated and are connected to vaccines. But so I don't I don't love to talk about those, but really, the whole your study was just wonderful. I mean.
 
00:26:07:38 - 00:26:12:57
Dr. Paul
I wasn't asking for, accolades at all, but, I mean, we need more studies, right?
 
00:26:13:02 - 00:26:24:33
Zoey O’Toole
I love it. You are like my hero for having this data, making sure it was it was done as well as it was. And I swear I.
 
00:26:24:33 - 00:26:38:34
Dr. Paul
Went to Jack Lyons Wheeler, who did the heavy lifting on the analysis. I, I was running a busy clinic. I was a clinician. I'm retired now. But I was seeing in my practice the unvaccinated were clearly healthier. And I had very confident you.
 
00:26:38:34 - 00:26:39:56
Zoey O’Toole
Had the numbers to.
 
00:26:40:04 - 00:27:04:57
Dr. Paul
The numbers. I had adequate numbers, I mean, thousands I had a, you know, not quite a thousand, but I had several thousand variably vaccinated. And in that particular study, we didn't have the CDC vaccinated kids because we focused on just those patients born into my practice because I wanted it to just be this. There. All the same, they they show up their new parents with a new baby, and they all got treated the same way.
 
00:27:05:02 - 00:27:06:44
Zoey O’Toole
That kind of studies should be done.
 
00:27:06:57 - 00:27:26:45
Dr. Paul
Yeah. So, you know, it was it was about as good as it could get in a clinic in a clinical setting. It's unfortunate that I know the major health systems have this data. If you have a health system like a Kaiser or a big, big group, you could go in and pull out the UN vaccine and then match them to the same age, same demographics.
 
00:27:26:50 - 00:27:29:29
Dr. Paul
And you could look at all health outcomes and you'd have your answer.
 
00:27:29:34 - 00:27:46:04
Zoey O’Toole
There's no question that the vaccine safety data link, which links up 8 or 9 of these these big health practices, has that data, and they have enough unvaccinated kids that they can do that comparison that you did. They're just not doing it.
 
00:27:46:08 - 00:27:51:59
Dr. Paul
They're just not or they've done it and they can't publish it because it'll be the end of the vaccine program.
 
00:27:52:04 - 00:27:53:09
Zoey O’Toole
Yeah. Okay.
 
00:27:53:14 - 00:28:11:26
Dr. Paul
So to to wrap it up, because unfortunately, while we go through our time so fast together, final words to our listeners about the science of vaccines. Yeah. And that is, I guess, who do you trust?
 
00:28:11:30 - 00:28:29:50
Dr. Paul
I mean, you know, our, our, our parents are listening to their relatives who are saying, well, you're you're going to vaccinate, aren't you? You know, all that pressure from from your family and friends and, and, and as you start to wake up to the fact that there's a problem with our vaccine program and with the vaccines themselves, who do you listen to?
 
00:28:29:57 - 00:28:31:55
Dr. Paul
Who do you trust?
 
00:28:32:00 - 00:28:58:36
Zoey O’Toole
And it's harder to find the people to trust. So I say, read turtles. You'll know that the people who are not getting paid to tell you this, are the parents. Listen to the parents, listen to what they're saying happen to their children. And once you start listening to that, you'll you'll see that there's a lot of, a lot more out there than that.
 
00:28:58:40 - 00:29:01:08
Zoey O’Toole
The mainstream is going to let you hear.
 
00:29:01:13 - 00:29:34:41
Dr. Paul
Yeah, absolutely, I like that. Listen to the parents and also trust your own intuition and take back your own power. You know, nobody should have the power to do a medical procedure on you or your child without your full knowledge, understanding and consent. So take back your power. Fire any doctor that's not listening to you and working with you, and find those who are really open to a true dialog honoring informed consent.
 
00:29:34:45 - 00:29:37:30
Dr. Paul
And, you won't regret it.
 
00:29:37:35 - 00:29:41:31
Zoey O’Toole
At TMI, we always used to say, listen to your mommy gut.
 
00:29:41:36 - 00:30:00:56
Dr. Paul
Yep. There you go, folks. Listen to your mommy gut. And thank you, Zoe, you have a great mommy gut and a phenomenal brain that helps pull all this information together. Thanks again for being on the show. You can check out my other show With the Wind at Doctors and science.com, and you can also take a, coaching session with myself if you wish.
 
00:30:01:00 - 00:30:09:04
Dr. Paul
Kids first forever.com. Those links are in the show notes. Thank you for your time today, and I look forward to seeing you next week.
 
00:30:14:23 - 00:30:40:17
Speaker 2
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
 
00:30:40:23 - 00:30:47:39
Speaker 2
I'm Dr. Paul.