​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul, welcome to with the wind science revealed. Today I interview Florida's Surgeon General. Dr. Joseph ladapo. He's a former UCLA professor. He's author of the book transcending fear, a blueprint for mindful leadership and public health. Wow, have we needed that we're gonna go over his background, talk about his different approach to public health that was both science based and honored individual choice over mandates. He stresses freedom over fear. This is a real blueprint for how access government control can be avoided. This might guide us if this ever happens again. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Pol from the heart. Today, I'm talking about change. I have really been struggling with this retirement thing. I'm not retired, I'm going to find other things to do. But wow, am I experiencing change? I'm not seeing kids daily, like I did for the past 35 years. I know I'm calling for something bigger, something different, something that's requiring growth. Maybe you've experienced something like that the past three years. I know something's being asked to me. I'm, I'm doing my best to be open to follow God's plan. Trying to listen, haven't mastered that yet. This really is requiring patience, openness, and love. Each day, ask myself what do I need to be doing so I can make the best difference in this world that I'm putting in. One thing I know for certain, though, that isn't changing, is my commitment to this show my passion for this, the ability to be on this journey with you. This has helped me greatly in embracing the changes in my own life, and what's going on in the world around us. So I thank you for that.

Welcome, Dr. ladipo, I consider you one of the most influential and courageous doctors in the world. And I just am so appreciative and grateful for you to come on the show with the wind science revealed.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  2:15  
Thank you, I'm really happy to be joining you really happy to be

Dr. Paul  2:18  
awesome. I love to start out I mean, you've got a lot of accolades and things I want to talk to you about. But I really love to start out by getting to know you a little bit and have our audience get to know the man. It always feels like to me when someone is as courageous as you are. Something in your background, perhaps prepared you for this time. Tell us a little bit about your background where you grew up and kind of leading up to your career.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  2:44  
Oh, sure. Yeah. So I was born in Nigeria, and moved to move to this country. And my parents moved us to Louisiana, then Georgia, and then North Carolina, and went to college in North Carolina. And I went to med school and in Boston at Harvard, even though the media, if you only read the articles, you think I was not even a doctor.

Dr. Paul  3:15  
Yeah, we have a couple of things in common. I grew up in Africa. I wasn't born there. And I ended up at Dartmouth from medical school. So we were we were neighbors, so to speak, although I was quite a few years ahead of you, I believe. And then your training is amazing. I mean, I think it was at Beth Israel, and then you ended up at UCLA as a clinician, scientist and professor.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  3:36  
Yeah, that's right. That's right. I had great training at Beth Israel. And then I was my first faculty job was actually at NYU. And from there, I went to UCLA. Gotcha.

Dr. Paul  3:51  
Yeah. And I think I remember reading that in your training, you had a lot of public health background as well.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  3:58  
Yeah, that's right. That's right. So during medical school, I stopped to do a PhD in health policy at the John F. Kennedy School of Government. And I got great training there in economics, Epidemiology, health policy, public health. So I benefited from from great training, which I used as a clinician scientist and had at the time I left UCLA. I had four NIH grants at that time. So I was, I was tenured, I was doing really well at UCLA. But the pandemic was a was a rift in in my time there and my relationship with my colleagues, many of my colleagues

Dr. Paul  4:45  
interesting so I'm, you're gonna get into this but you took a stand very different than a lot of your colleagues. I've been through the same thing. What prepared you for that and how Did you come to understand things to be a little different than the narrative that we were being told?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  5:06  
Well, I was very lucky. And what prepared me was, was really God's grace. Because I, for most of my life, I was pretty very much a fear world old guy, I was a fairly old guy, it was a fear was a major component of every aspect of my life. And, and it primarily stemmed from a traumatic experience I had when I was a little boy and I talked about it in the book transcend fear, and, and the I fell in love with my wife, and, you know, the, the, the wounds and the injuries and the stuff that I've been carrying around and thought was not a big deal. You burst out into the open, and obviously, it was always a big deal because it inhibited my connection to myself, my connection to other people, and lots of other lots of other handicaps, it can well from from that, from that prevented me from being all that I could be. And, and we had a rough time with it really my wife, I mean, I my wife primarily was the was a poor soul who had to deal with me. And I saw therapists and got some help, but none of it was really enough, not even close, and eventually worked with a guy, former Navy SEAL named Christopher Mae her. And he has mastered techniques from Chinese Meridian theory, stuff related to the flow of chi, related to how, how stress and trauma, and anger and grief and and all of those types of emotions, self doubt, literally live in our bodies and obstruct the flow of chi in our bodies. And it I didn't believe any of it. And we really went to see him because my poor wife was at the end of her rope. And, and I worked with him for five days, and you have never looked back. It's it was, it was by far the most, the most important ingredient to my happiness today, my ability to do everything that I've done since during the pandemic. And I actually, oddly enough, I worked with them in December 2019. So the timing was really, really good. And and that's, that's why I've been able to do everything that I've done. That's why it's like literally that simple.

Dr. Paul  7:44  
Wow, thank God for your wife, and thank God for having that person in your life. I have a parallel when I lost my license for publishing a study showing the differences between vaccinated Vax kids, I was going through a separation from my wife, I mean, just everything crashing down, right. And I was living way too much in ego. And I had a coach who, who absolutely allowed me to get in touch with myself. Put fear aside, put faith at the center of everything. And boy, you're not trying to do it alone. Right. It's incredible.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  8:18  
Wow, that Yeah, yeah, I think that's I mean, that that's, that's very interesting. And, and I'm glad you had that. And and, you know, I know that everyone's path is different in terms of it turns even people get on that path, because not a lot of people don't care aren't interested, you know, God bless them. That's all good. But, but if you are, if that's something you want, I'm always happy that people are, are moving toward that that goal?

Dr. Paul  8:52  
Yes, absolutely. And if I hadn't mentioned at the beginning, you are the author of an incredible book, transcending fear, a blueprint for mindful leadership and public health. And we're gonna get into the public health side of things, for sure. But before we go there, since you touched on this fear thing, it felt like to me if we if we kind of go back to the beginning of the whole COVID thing. It sure was a very, very powerful. I'll call it propaganda because I that's what I've come to believe it is. But I mean, how, how were we as a as a world population to deal with the onslaught of the images and the fear porn, if you will, that was coming at us? How did you handle that? When when COVID was first rolling out? I believe you were at UCLA at the time. Yeah. And what do you think about the use of fear and what's that all about?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  9:46  
I am really so. So for me personally, I had two really good things going for me. I had my wife who just instinctively she just she's a fearless being and I had The benefit of having, having worked with Christopher to help me clear up a lot of my tremendous amounts of my emotional baggage, my, you know, and and how that connected to my spiritual being and my, my mental being and all that stuff. So between those two, like my wife, you know, called BS early on in terms of the spotting the smear campaign, which is not to say I mean the virus, obviously it's it was a very serious name for it seems extremely grave for a lot of people primarily primarily people who were older, in terms of where the risk was, was concentrated, but, but the, the, the production that came along with it, that unforeseen was successful and convincing people that a bunch of unreasonable things were reasonable, such as locking people down and closing their schools and indefinitely and, and forcing people to wear masks in the absence of evidence and the absence of in the absence of, of clinical support and the absence of any respect for their own individual preferences. Like she saw through that immediately. And I fortunately, I wasn't far behind from from her. And, and, you know, that's exactly what happened. And these techniques, these tactics were deployed American population, and unfortunately, they had a lot of success and a lot of traction. And he looked back, I mean, it's just a lot of crazy stuff that happened, firing people, because they wouldn't, you know, firing a nurse because she doesn't want to put something new in her body. I mean, give me a break, when she's low risk, probably already had COVID. Just there were a lot of it's a demonstration of how, how you can really shift people's beliefs and thinking and when you when you when you prep them properly, and when you really prepare that environment properly in terms of a fear. And it's worse than that, too. Because not only are you getting people to believe something that that is on natural, that's wrong. But but you also are having success in getting people to disconnect from their own intuition. And and both of those things happened. And then you know, it's that's sort of the pathway to atrocities, unfortunately, in case the pandemic, there were just a lot of a lot of unethical things that happen. I mean, things that are just blatantly wrong, just completely, totally wrong, they always were wrong. Many people were able to be convinced that they were not

Dr. Paul  12:56  
including, it seems most of our peers, most doctors in the US don't seem to get it.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  13:03  
And yeah, well, it's a really good demonstration how sort of analytic intelligence has no connection with, with people's connection with source and, you know, they're spiritual beings. And the spiritual being always knows like that that stuff was wrong. And that's, that's people's connection to God and divinity. And and it's it is just that's a separate related but a separate entity, then then the analytic being.

Dr. Paul  13:38  
Yeah, no, you're so it's so right, with both of us having gone through that awakening, if you will, and reconnecting to our intuition and spirit. Wow, our population is in trouble. I think I'd have you comment on a few things. Because to me, as I watched this rollout, I mean, sure, the first month or two were all a little bit fearful, because we just didn't know what we were dealing with if you go back to February, March, April of 2020. But they, and I say they being let's talk about people like Fauci and those who are controlling the narrative and had control in the public health arena, which I want to really touch on with you soon. But they did some tricky things like identifying cases as just positive tests. Right. What were your thoughts then? And now about the testing issue and the PCR testing, and what that might have done to mislead the public?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  14:39  
Well, I think a lot of people know that historically, in public health, you think of cases as being people who have symptoms and not just a positive test. And it's, I think, fairly widely recognized now but back then you're totally hush if you said something like this, but the PCR test alone is not useful for really diagnostic purposes in terms of knowing whether someone, at least on a one time use, whether knowing someone is having an active infection was an early phase of infection is, is clear there infection and, and but it was used that way. And it was used to define define cases. And then of course, now there's more discussion about, well, who died with COVID? And who died from COVID. And all that stuff. Really was just another example of the mania of the time and the breathlessness of the, of the strategy of a public health strategy. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  15:46  
And do you have a comment on the cycles of amplification because I hadn't been clued into that until I started reading more about the specific COVID PCR testing and how, you know, there were studies that showed at low levels of cycles 18 Or so it was a very good test would usually be negative, but we were using 35 to 40, or more cycles of amplification here in the States, which made it almost meaningless. Do you agree with that comment? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  16:16  
I agree, I think that that the from, and I'm not my area of research is more on the quantitative fields like health economics and epidemiology and, and, and biostatistics. But from my discussion with colleagues who were were expert in, from my review of papers that have looked at this issue, I mean, that's what happens, right? You get less, you get more sensitivity, or much less specificity by using such a high cycle cycle count. So you know why we did that? I agree. It's just not wasn't the probably wasn't sensible. And it certainly, I mean, how many people only how many people were had no symptoms, but we're totally we're sick. And we're told to isolate for 14 days, or however many Dr. Fauci had decided was the right number at that time, the pandemic. So it is problematic, and it just adds to all the confusion of the pandemic, and also planning how to address the pandemic,

Dr. Paul  17:29  
right? And then, what do you think of the fact that they made this determination? Probably Fauci on down, that you only count a person as vaccinated when they have completed the series. And it's been 14 days after the series. And, and the problem I had with that is, as I saw side effects from the shot itself, a lot of the side effects were right away. So when those 14 days that you're declaring somebody is not vaccinated, when they actually are vaccinated, all these symptoms that are side effects of the shot are being labeled COVID disease, or it's happening in an annex person when truly they're vaccinated.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  18:12  
Right, it's interesting because that that particular phenomenon predates the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in terms of clinical trials of vaccines, waiting to start the clock, until an individual is is is his has entered a period of time where you believe that whatever immune response they were going to mount they mounted it. i It is a tradition, obviously it doing that favors the vaccine arms, because it obviously favors them. Analytically, my sense is that I tend to and there's been some debate about this, in the in the academic community, as you know, I tend to be of the thought that we should treat all medications the same in terms of how we evaluate them in randomized clinical trials. And what that means is that there's an intention to treat. So if you are randomized to that arm, that's the arm you're you're analyzed in, and that the clock starts when you when you are randomized, you know when you received the intervention. So I tend to think that we shouldn't do those studies. That way. It will on average, I would anticipate that it would reduce estimates of effectiveness. But it's also it's also brings those studies on par with other other studies. So other randomized, randomized study. These medications, so I tend to think that would be the appropriate way to do it. One other way you can think about it is, I had a, I had a teacher, Dr. Richard Zack Hausser while I was at the Kennedy School, and He's an economist, and one of the things he likes to say is that to get your thinking straight, go to the extremes. So in this case, it's a two week delay. And people were like, okay, that's fine. That's fine. But let's say it was a 20 week delay, right? Let's say it took that long to see an effect. Would that be okay to wait that long? In your analysis? Most people would probably say no. So if 20 weeks isn't Okay, two weeks on based on the same principle is not okay. So I tend to think you should start the clock when you start when you're randomized in randomized to your treatment arm.

Dr. Paul  20:48  
Right, that should be on day one of getting the jab. Yeah, yeah. Very interesting. So So let's talk a bit about your journey from being a professor, clinician scientist, researcher, to becoming Florida's Surgeon General. When did that happen? And what was your decision making? And in doing that?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  21:10  
We were it happened in September 2021. And yeah, like I said, I was I was a tenured faculty member at UCLA, I was actually certain I was going to retire there, even though things had gotten unpleasant, with a lot of my colleagues and my boss, because of, because of my opinions on during the pandemic, and, and having the gumption to voice those opinions. But my research was going well. And, and things were awkward. I did have some team members leave because of Joe, I can't believe he would say this, about the COVID-19 vaccines in that. But overall, things are still going well with the research. And then I got a call I think in in August of 2021, from a governor DeSantis his team. And so I've been Surgeon General since September, I was very grateful that they that they selected me for the position of Surgeon General. And, you know, we're I think we're only just getting started, and we have a lot more work to do.

Dr. Paul  22:17  
So thank you, by the way for taking that position and having that courage to do so. Help us understand most of us don't understand what a Surgeon General does, and how that position fits into the public health. sort of arrangement in the state because I know we have. I'm an Oregon and I know we have public health officials who are you know, just sort of by decree this, you, you can't go to school, right? Those quarantines Are you must wear masks. How does your role fit in with the general public health? Structure of leadership?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  22:54  
Yeah, so I'm the head of the Department of Health in Florida, we've got over 13,000 full time, employees essentially. And in 1000s, more of essentially, maybe part time might be the right word to use employees. And we have 67 county health departments in our 67 counties. And we've got an integrated system. And in Tallahassee, we are we're the center of that system. I have seen it said we have so many hard working people in our department who are really dedicated and commitment committed to public health, and that in the health of their fellow Floridians. And so, as the head, I oversee all of our programs, from our programs for maternal health, to our programs for Child Nutrition, to our programs for smoking cessation, and our programs for licensing medical doctors and pharmacists, and inspecting public swimming pools. So we have a really broad, broad portfolio and an excellent, excellent team. And so I oversee our programs and and I also work with our division leaders to to help plan strategically how we're addressing public health and how we are addressing new issues, whether it's monkey pox or, or other issues that arise. And I also have the privilege of working with Governor DeSantis also.

Dr. Paul  24:28  
So are you overseeing the medical board as well?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  24:34  
The medical board is independent. Okay. It is. It's within the Department of Health, but it is an independent body.

Dr. Paul  24:42  
Gotcha. So, how did you deal with the fact you know, when you were at UCLA, you had one analysis of what was going on with COVID and the jabs, so called vaccines, but a lot of your peers had a different thinking about it. So so that they were, it was getting awkward, right? Certainly, I would guess in Florida, there must be other people in your public health world, who like those other folks at UCLA don't agree with you. How do you deal with that in a leadership sense, and actually for getting things done that are different, because I think I'd love to hear what you've done in Florida. That's different, because it feels different. I've traveled around the country, I've been to Florida twice to speak. And, you know, people seem freer, they're not walking around with masks, there seems to be less fear. How were you able to impact that?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  25:40  
Florida definitely is freer. I mean, it is because and it's and that is, that is that is completely due to Governor DeSantis. And the fact that he very early on, it made it clear that people had a right to breathe, kids had a right to breathe. And that it was you had a right to decide what you put in your body. And, and, and people had a right to work and things like that. So he created that atmosphere. And, and, you know, the voters, I mean, they they really, really showed their support for with his his landslide victory. I mean, unbelievable. How how huge of a victory that was in the election. And it for me in terms of yes, there are definitely people a lot of doctors, most doctors in Florida, probably don't agree with, with my positions. Many do here in the state that I hear from. And even in California, people were often sending me supportive notes. Even it was a very, very, very hostile environment there. In terms of people were vocal. But But I think everyone has to find their way with this. For me, it's I just, I think communication about what I think actually, before the communication, being clear about what I think and why is has been my my approach. And you know, ultimately, the stuff that I share. It's not it's not complicated. It's sort of, you know, here's what the studies show with the masks. Here's what I think about individual rights, okay, you put those together does not make sense to force anyone to do this, right. The studies don't are overall not supportive. And, you know, in the fact that people have a right to control their face, is that's a major factor. So I think that I do think that I've been able to persuade many people, it's not my intention to persuade. I mean, I'm happy to persuade people, I'm happy when people change their positions, to be more in agreement with mine, because I think that's a, that's a better place to be for public health. But I do think that many people have changed their positions based on the clarity of my message and the rationale for that message. But again, all of it starts from being clear internally.

Dr. Paul  28:22  
Right? So you've made it pretty clear. And I 100% support your thinking on the mask issue. I mean, the studies aren't showing that they make any difference, and they certainly can be harmful. As a pediatrician, the thought of masking up little kids, and they don't get to see facial expressions. What are we doing to our kids? Right? It's just an insanity. Do you have a handle on the data from your state in Florida? So you were one of the only states I think that early on, allowed for this freedom not to wear masks, opening up schools, perhaps sooner than other states, not forcing people to take the jab? The COVID shot. So what kind of results have you had? Because of course, I remember hearing reports on news. Oh, doom and gloom, you know, DeSantis. And then when you were joining that you guys were going to create a disaster in Florida. Has it been a disaster?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  29:30  
You know, the louder the news, the better things are going here. Yeah, you have the benefit of those strategies not being effective in this why masking it's just as a strategy, public health strategy, and people can fuss Oh, well, they're not worrying 100% of the time, or they're not worrying at 200% of the time, or whatever people were complaining about fine. But what we're talking about here is a public health strategy. The public health strategy It doesn't work in terms of masking. So it doesn't work. So is it going to affect anything? No, it's not going to have any second any appreciable effect. And moreover, you have the benefit of not forcing people into to do stuff they don't want to do, which definitely has a negative effect when you coerce people. So we've had Florida people keep moving here, again, the people vote, they vote in the ballots, and they vote with their feet. I mean, people keep coming to the state, real estate just gets more expensive. And they're voting with their feet now, and you know, you walk around and people are happy. And they really appreciate it. And as I mentioned, I mean, they really rewarded the governor for his his leadership. Particularly with respect to pandemic restrictions, I mean, people don't like being locked down no matter what these guys in New York or Oregon or California say,

Dr. Paul  31:01  
yeah. So Alright, folks, did you hear that you don't need a mask, it doesn't work, and let your smile shine. Let's talk briefly about this messaging that we got incessantly that, for example, children should stay home, quarantined, don't go to school, because well, and then of course, they threw the masks in as well. You don't We don't want you to kill grandma. And from a public health standpoint, what do you say to that?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  31:33  
You say that, you say that, like that people always have choice. And people should always have choice related to public health only in the most extreme circumstances like that, that that woman who was her name, I can't remember her name right now. But the woman who, who was a was a asymptomatic carrier of salmonella, I can't

Dr. Paul  31:59  
remember her name, typhoid, Mary, typhoid, Mary,

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  32:03  
and the and she stopped cooking, and she started cooking again, and people got sick again. So you being hit up, staying with the least restrictive approach is like that's the smart strategy. That's the sustainable strategy. And these these these sort of coercion campaigns, oh, you're gonna kill grandma. Oh, this now, not only is there not evidence for that, but it's, it's bad. Public health is just a bad strategy. It it's fear base it, it plays on guilt. I mean, it's just it's like Bad, bad, bad, bad. So it's just not something it's unethical. It's just not something to, to consider. Yeah, taking precautions around grandma. Sure, sure. But like you doing something, not alone, something that isn't even effective, is not going to change the fact that grandma is at higher risk. And that's like a world of realism. And thinking about what what do we do about that? You know, what kind of treatment options are there? What else can we do for grandma? You know, why don't we give grandma and 95 baths and at least with honesty, like it may not help, but it might help a little bit when you go out. And so try this, rather than making people think that less of the flimsy or mass should always be used by everyone. So it's just a different place in terms of realism.

Dr. Paul  33:35  
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I wonder, I wonder if you've wondered about this from a public health standpoint, if we had known what we knew now? No, we, what if we had just let the school stay open right through the pandemic, no masks, no isolation, no six foot distancing? Let kids get exposed to that virus. We know their natural immune system works very well, the the innate immune system, then the kids would be the actual protection for grandma, because they're not going to transmit the virus, they're immune. And obviously, your common sense is is is important. You don't visit grandma while you're sick.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  34:18  
Right. Yeah, yeah, I think I think that that the, the, you know, the application of common sense, you know, and there has been some debate not a lot in the academic community about whether it was the vaccines were even all appropriate for this condition for kids, you know, for the reasons that you're saying and for other reasons, including risks, both unknown and and both known and unknown. So I think that's a that's a legitimate point. And, and certainly the the data just, it's never said supported using like high quality, randomized, controlled trial data is just never supported using these in children. And even these observational studies that try and show the benefit. They they don't capture, they don't capture the risks. And they have problems with confounding, because we know that there, you know, there there tends to be a difference in overall risk between people who opt in for COVID-19 vaccine versus people who do not. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  35:35  
So just to get to that point, then on the COVID, 19 vaccine, knowing what you know, now, what is your recommendation for children or people in general?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  35:47  
Well, I think just based on the data, so right now, it's Omicron. It's I mean, the studies that have showing infection fatality rates is incredibly, incredibly low. And virtually all of the risk is concentrated in people who are, say, 60 and above. So I think that for the vast majority of the population, it's just it just doesn't make any more sense. And then you don't not even mention the fact that study after study has shown that the protection wanes both protection from infection and protection from from severe outcomes. And in fact, it looks like after enough time, the the mRNA COVID-19, vaccines are associated with an increased risk of infection rather than a decreased risk. So I just I'm not seeing what the upside is, and in recommending these vaccines at all, at this point in the pandemic, I think really, we need to think more about treatment, early treatment for high risk people. I mean, it's just, you know, I don't know, is it is it a we trying to fund Pfizer and perpetuity or any at this point that the health, the health campaign component of these mRNA COVID-19 vaccines is just it's hard to afford to be co parent.

Dr. Paul  37:19  
Yeah. And I think I might have read, but maybe I'm mistaken. Did you or did the Florida public health system or the governor actually stopped recommending this vaccine for children?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  37:32  
Oh, yes, we did. We did. Excellent.

Dr. Paul  37:37  
Course. You know, they voted ACEP, the CDC arm that makes the vaccine recommendations to put vaccines on that CDC schedule for children. Sure, you know, they've they've

Unknown Speaker  37:49  
approved that. Yeah, good luck with that.

Dr. Paul  37:54  
I think the implementation, I mean, once it's approved, I think it's, it allows this liability free status to continue in perpetual duty. botch that word. But I think it allows states to make they can then make the decision to put it on the childhood schedule and exclude kids from school if they don't get it. And I I wonder if that we're going to start seeing that very soon. What do you think?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  38:21  
I think that they are scared, because parents, they tried to do that in LA, and they just kept the langit the the, the vaccine mandate in schools, because basically, at the end, they this is this is their dumb policies. And there were so many students who didn't comply. And la it, especially black and Hispanic students, that they, they basically, it was like a game of chicken and they, you know, they went first. So are they blinked first? So you so instead of just canceling it, they just say, Oh, we're gonna delay it till the next semester or whatever. And they've been doing that now for four years. So I don't think it's going to have any I don't think it's going to have any any traction. I think any school district that does it is going to end up falling on their faces.

Dr. Paul  39:21  
I sure hope you're right. So what do you think about that whole technology, the mRNA platform, the nano technology, that's now I get the sense they're going to try to roll out a lot of vaccines. I know the Durnan is working on the RSV, one. I'm not sure that platform should be used at all. What are your thoughts?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  39:47  
Yeah, I think it's obviously really important question because they're just I think dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of these mRNA vaccine clinical trials ongoing and I want to apologize, I'm gonna have to step away in a moment. But I think we obviously need more testing more safety evaluation. I don't want the technology personally, I mean, it's just this whole thing is, is a doctor I'm always at least somewhat wary is you know, new technology because we always learn more stuff. But, but I don't like this technology for it. Are there specific conditions that eventually may be found to, for it to be of benefit? Great. But as a as a, as a tool for wide dissemination? I'm like, I'm not. I'm not fond about it. But pardon me? I'm not fond of it.

Dr. Paul  40:46  
Sure. Well, before you step away, a couple last things. Do you have thoughts on passports? So vaccine passports? And then final words, you get you get the last word.

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  40:56  
Thanks. All these vaccine passports, they should all be they should all be like burnt and actually, what would be a good use maybe recycled if they're paper? Just normally stupid ideas. They'll probably try again and the next pandemic if they get a chance. But hopefully they won't get a chance. But just it was it was just a just It's just a stupid idea. I just just cannot cannot go away fast enough.

Dr. Paul  41:27  
We have apartheid on honestly, it's kind of a move step towards control and slavery and just doesn't feel right. Oh, it

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  41:35  
doesn't. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I totally agree. It doesn't. It's heartless. It's, it's very, very tech oriented, rather than humanity oriented. And like, it's like, he'd sort of commoditize as humanity rather than sort of this techno health, sort of health, techno society rather than a society of human beings. So I totally I'm with you there. And, and as a last word, I would say, I would say thanks for what you're doing. And thanks for your integrity and your in your bravery. And same thing for for everyone out there. And I, I really do I wish everyone the best and, and, and I want you to pick up transcend fear and take a look at it and see if see if it resonates with you.

Dr. Paul  42:35  
I have the book. I'm moving my office. So I was really bummed because it's packed. And I couldn't find it before I'm traveling right now, before I do this interview. Thank you so much for coming on this show. Thank you for your courage, and your leadership. And I look forward to seeing how you can guide not just Florida, but perhaps the rest of the country in the world into a better way of handling public health situations. There'll be more right?

Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD  43:05  
Yes, there will be thanks, man. God bless you, man. God

Dr. Paul  43:11  
bless you to

welcome Brandon to with the wind science revealed, this is actually a unique treat for me. You are a former patient of mine. And we were together when you had twins who I believe are now around seven years old. And you also told me you have a three year old. So it's a real privilege to have you on the show. Yeah, it's an absolute honor for me to talk with you. Give us a little background on yourself, your wife, your family, and then we'll jump into that experience you had with your first hospital experience having your twins.

Brandon Campbell  43:49  
Yeah, absolutely. So we've kind of lived all over. But during that season of our life, we were living in Portland, we were born and raised in Washington. But work had taken us down to Portland. And we got married in 2005. We decided that we're going to wait a little bit to have kids what we didn't realize was that we were also going to have some fertility challenges. with that came the beginning of my wife, which I feel like is a hobby stories always start right the wife starts doing something researching something and it was all health related. It had nothing to do with kids or it had nothing to do. It was more us. How do we get ourselves healthy? Yeah, well, let's start looking at the toxic load that we have around the house. Because we were realizing maybe that had something to do with what we were facing. So you know, we had a great relationship, but obviously, you know, we wanted to have kids. So we started down some infertility treatments, which eventually led us to the point where we were pregnant with twins.

Dr. Paul  44:53  
And that brings us to where you're at now and you're pregnant and starting to think about Hmm, what are we going to do about vaccines? AIDS.

Brandon Campbell  45:01  
Yeah. And we walked into it. The hepatitis one never made sense to me at that early, just from from I didn't get it till I was actually till I went to Africa. So I was older in life. But I, you know that the other day, it was like, Okay, maybe vitamin K, we're not sure. And we didn't go in with a resolve, which was that it was not not wise on our part to go in with the absolute resolve of what we were going to do. Because you get into that moment and what ended up happening with us. So my wife's five foot one, she has two babies that are growing. Should we eat to 35 weeks, she also has preeclampsia. So we just went in for a Saturday, checkup and found out we were having babies that day. So it it's kind of that right there was shocking, right? You think, oh, well, it's a sad, we're just gonna go in. It's our weekly checkup they're gonna do and they're just like, No, we're, we're taking your babies.

Dr. Paul  46:02  
So C section, I guess.

Brandon Campbell  46:05  
Yeah, they gave her the option. But she was so tired that she just was like, I there's no way and actually ended up being a blessing because Brooklyn, who was I guess, technically, maybe a, she was kind of wrapped up in the cord. So that would have not been good. I think I'm not a doctor, but I'm just assuming that that would not have been. Do you remember their

Dr. Paul  46:27  
birth weights?

Brandon Campbell  46:29  
I do. They were 512 and 413.

Dr. Paul  46:33  
People are probably wondering why I asked that question. And so the reason I asked that question is it's very interesting in they were probably in the neonatal intensive care right away. No, no. Okay. Well, what has traditionally happened for preemies and at 35 weeks, it can go either way, some 35 weekers, the size that your twins were, which was a very good size, by the way. About half of those babies make it on their own without needing the the ICU, the NICU, which is neonatal intensive care unit. Traditionally, for a couple decades, the health professionals in the neonatal intensive care, they're dealing with those tiniest of babies. I mean, some babies are born, you know, barely over a pound, right? I mean, they're just these tiny, tiny little preemies, they would treat preemies as if they were full term newborns as far as it goes with vaccines. And they did finally wake up to the fact that wait a minute, that's a lot of aluminum for a tiny, tiny body. It's still way too much aluminum, even for a 10 pound baby that have be shot is. But anyway, they at least eventually said you don't vaccinate until they're at least 2.5 kilos, which you know, your smallest twin was about that weight. So under current protocols, Most pediatricians and neonatologist would say, yep, just vaccinate according to the CDC schedule. But I want to highlight something and have you elaborate more. And you mentioned that you didn't go in armed with knowing exactly what you wanted to do. And that ended up probably making it challenging for you talk a little more about that.

Brandon Campbell  48:17  
Yeah, and I'll even juxtapose that with our third daughter that was born, we did go in Absolutely. Knowing. And it was really hard. So yeah, so we and the reason is because and I don't know if folks that work there, do this on on purpose, but you honestly feel like you're the worst human being on Earth. If you're saying no to what they want, I mean, it's just forms you have to fill out, they have to tell you all the awful things that are going to happen for sure, to your child for not making this choice. And, you know, because of that, and, and because I think, I think with the vitamin K shot, they really play that up as far as what can happen. And I'm not saying that it can't happen. But it's scary stuff. And so we did allow that. And we did not want to but we did because we didn't go in 100% and and I think have the things to say. Yeah. For

Dr. Paul  49:27  
what kind of things were they telling you? It sounds like you're bullied?

Brandon Campbell  49:31  
Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, it was like, you know, you know, your baby can bleed out and die, because they just don't get the vitamin K for clotting. And so, you know, and I don't know what the stats were but they you know, they start saying like there's this percentage of kids that will die from a bleed out a brain bleed and you don't even know what's happening. And here's one that happened and this guy oh my gosh, and they you know, the vitamin K supplements or the drops? Well, those just they are those just don't work. And so you can't Was that? So? Yeah, I mean, it really felt like oh my gosh, I guess I guess we do this and they're asking you this right now. I mean, it's not like, hey, let's let's get them in, get them settled. Let's think about it. It's like, we got to know now. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  50:20  
Well, for vitamin K, just to touch on that. It's there's risks and benefits for all procedures, right. And it's not that there's no benefits to getting vitamin K. There certainly are, there are, of course, by now you've probably done your research. And there are reports of, you know, brain bleeds in babies born, who didn't get the vitamin K. And, but there are also reports of harm from vitamin K, right. And so it's so hard is weighing out that risk benefit thing. And like with anything, it should ultimately be the parents choice. And I think that's what you're advocating for. The Hepatitis B is a little simpler. I'll even let you describe your thought processes. Because you went through this twice. First time you went in, less prepared. Second time you were more prepared. Tell tell us how those discussions with

Brandon Campbell  51:15  
hepatitis. I don't know that I had done a ton of the research yet on the aluminum content, or any of the reasons why it on it just didn't make sense to me why we were doing that. Because, again, I I didn't have it till I went to Africa. And I went all through school, it just and knowing where you get hepatitis B, you know,

Dr. Paul  51:42  
I know my wife, which is where where do you get hepatitis B?

Brandon Campbell  51:46  
Needles and sexual activity with pokes that are infected?

Dr. Paul  51:51  
Correct. And babies don't do that.

Brandon Campbell  51:54  
And my wife wasn't either. And I wasn't either. So

Dr. Paul  51:58  
yeah, it's it's almost insulting, right? We doctors would I used to do this. I'm ashamed to admit it way, way back a couple of decades ago. Well, you know, you can't be sure about your risk factors, you know, your partner may not be honest, I mean, crazy stuff, right? I mean, what, like, we're not going to trust you the the individual sitting right in front of me, you might be lying to me, therefore, I'm going to do what I need to do.

Brandon Campbell  52:25  
Wow. Yeah. It is that so that one to me was it was the easier one to just say, No, we're not. There's absolutely no way we're doing that. I mean, yeah, I had mentioned going to Africa, but you know, we had just my wife and I, when we were going to Uganda, you know, we just rolled up our sleeves. This was in 2009. So quite a bit before. And it was just, you know, in both arms with a whole bunch of Ni C's, we weren't even thinking anything of that. So there's a big shift to 2015 where we get to, and I honestly, I think having the knowledge for the next time was was easier, though, I felt they were even more intense. So our daughters were born in Portland, the twins. And then our third was actually born in Spokane, where we had moved back to, and they were, they were ruthless. did describe that a little bit. So that they sent in multiple people. They wasn't just the one attending. She sat there she, you know, told me all the things she really got into because I read a study that showed that oral Vitamin K is fairly is a PubMed study, and it's fairly effective to help. And so she but she was just like, it's, it doesn't do anything. You can't, there's nothing you can do. And I just was like, No, we're not doing it. Absolutely not going to do it. And she just kept going and going and going. And finally I said, Okay, show me the package inserts. Show me the side effects. And I'll think about it. And guess what? She couldn't produce them.

Dr. Paul  54:06  
She couldn't produce the package insert? Nope. Wow. So that was a brilliant approach, because every medication has a package insert. And in the package insert is all the information known at the time the drug was released to the market, they're required by law to put all the side effects in there that they've seen. And you would have had right in front of you some of the problems, right. And so probably that's why she didn't want to produce it.

Brandon Campbell  54:39  
I think that's probably it. Yes. And then they had the attending pediatrician come in after she was born and they had to do the whole thing again. And she was a lot nicer, but I still I said provide me the answers. And she couldn't do it. Which was always very bizarre to me, but cuz I know that they have to be there. She couldn't do it. And then it just became easy. But you know, it's also a little intimidating. And they start having you fill these forms, and you have to sign these things. And, you know, it's almost like, Well, gosh, am I going to have someone come here? And not let me leave? Because I sign these forms saying, no, no, and their liability release forms, I guess. But. So

Dr. Paul  55:25  
we bring up a good point, when you sign forms that might have legal implications, read them carefully. If there's anything in there that says you are knowingly harming your child, because a lot of them have that kind of wording in there, you cross it out and initial it. And maybe you even add, there are risks and benefits to both sides of this decision. Because, you know, I early on before, I sort of really tuned into that I used to have my patients sign vaccine refusal forms, that had some language that really could have perhaps been used against them, right. And I wasn't doing that on purpose, I just wasn't tuned into that one little line that had been put in there by the Academy of Pediatrics, I am knowingly harming my child or potentially harming my child. You there, you can just imagine, Child Protective Services knocking on your door. And yeah, that's happened in some states. So yes, anytime you're asked to sign something, read it carefully, and make sure you're not signing anything that's self incriminating. I think that'll be important. It doesn't feel safe in hospitals anymore, in a sense that you don't feel like your doctors are on your team. It feels like they're on a different team with a different agenda. And their agenda is

Brandon Campbell  56:46  
actually

Dr. Paul  56:48  
the exact opposite at times of what you want to do, at least around the vaccine issue. That seems to be the case, right? Yeah.

Brandon Campbell  56:55  
We have a rule now. And this is because of other things that we've had with family members that you're not allowed to be alone. Because we feel like there's just no advocacy,

Dr. Paul  57:05  
one of the toughest things I have to deal with when I'm thinking about my colleagues, other doctors is we're supposed to give informed consent, right? That's that process where you tell your patient, in this case, you would tell the parent who's got a new baby, the pros and the cons of the decisions, right, whether it's the vitamin K, or the Hepatitis B shot at this, that initial newborn, and you do the pros and the cons and the alternatives, and one of the alternatives should always be not doing the recommended procedure. Or in other words, not giving the the shot. And you won't get that from 99% of pediatricians who come into the hospital in America today, you will get what they call informed consent. They're still calling it that. But it's it's not you are given the pros of the of the procedure, the vaccine and the vitamin K, the negatives are whitewashed. Oh, it's completely safe. I mean, you don't need to worry about it's one of the million that you'll hear that quoted. And you won't be given the package insert, not that that's practical. It's a huge document. But you certainly will not be given the alternative of you don't have to take it. So you're now entering a world where there's no informed consent. It's a protocol and you just do it. You are so spot on folks, we learned from COVID The absolute worst thing you can do to your loved one is leave them alone in the hospital. When you said that it was like, bam, to you. Nothing could be further from the truth. That's if you have a baby, you don't leave him alone in the hospital. I can't tell you how many times the nurse was going well, we're just gonna take the baby to the nursery, so you can have a break. And they come back and they've gotten a shot. And the parents had explicitly said verbally and had written birth plan. No hepatitis B, and they got it anyway.

Brandon Campbell  58:57  
Yeah, that would not have been a good thing. For them. Yeah. And we were really rigorous about the only time they had to be away from us was a carseat test, I think. Because they were so tiny.

Dr. Paul  59:09  
Yeah. I would say even then you just, yeah, you do not let your child out of your sight. And if it's a parent who's in the hospital for whatever it is, whether it's surgery, you sent somebody's with them, they they won't always let you into the operating room. But besides that, you should be with your loved ones at all times, to thoughts, what are your recommendations for new parents and any other final thoughts you have?

Brandon Campbell  59:38  
My biggest recommendation is for any new parent, I don't care if they have never even considered that. You know, they might do something different with vaccines is you have to do your own research. You can't trust what the doctors say you can't trust what a pharmaceutical company could say or any of that you You have to do the research, it takes time it takes energy. And you will be thankful for even if you do the research and you come to a different conclusion than I did. I don't actually think you will. But if, if you do, that's okay. Because then you're able to you, you will look back on the decisions that you made and feel good about those decisions. Because you did the research. If you don't, and you make a different choice, and you get down the line, you have a whole lot of other things that you might have to deal with, just in your own mind because of that. So that was big for us. I wish I would have done more. And so to me, do the research and make your own informed consent because you won't receive it. Excellent advice.

Dr. Paul  1:00:47  
You mentioned high wire, there's children's health defense, their defender journal that comes out daily. There's so many other great resources on substack. This show for those of you who want to share that with your loved ones. Do you have any final thoughts?

Brandon Campbell  1:01:04  
I just appreciate what you and so many others are doing because you're right. It is a very broken system. And it's very, very unfortunate. What happens when you speak out, I saw another one recently, who's he's they're coming after as well. But thank you for what you do. And it's terrible to have to take that and walk down that but the things that you've been able to accomplish and will accomplish, I think I'm just beginning. So I'm excited for you and what's going to happen and thank you. And thank

Dr. Paul  1:01:41  
you, Brandon. I really appreciate you coming on the show and you've provided a piece of information. Well, a whole lot of information but some very important information for everybody to pay attention to.

Brandon Campbell  1:01:53  
God bless. Thank you.

Dr. Paul  1:02:01  
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
knocked ball Welcome to with the wind science revealed. My guest today is Mickey Willis. He's a human rights activist, investigative filmmaker, and He is respected globally for exposing the corruption at the highest levels. His powerful movies plan demic have been more censored than anything else in history. He's got a call for unity, you're going to see this, we're going to discuss his powerful story of what got him to do what he's doing, and how we, as a people can unite. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. Today, we want to talk about unity, you're going to see a brief seven minute video that Mickey Willis put together that just touched my heart, I had to share it with you. We're living in a world where there's conflict. And we're pitted against one another on just about anything you can think of. I grew up in Africa during the Civil Rights Movement. And there was all this conflict and the way the system would keep us divided, was what really allowed those in power to stay in power. And our movement for freedom today in this country is challenged by that same issue, the propaganda and the division and the infighting that happens. It's so destructive. So those in power those that want to control and dominate the world. Their real fear is that we will come together. And when humanity comes together, it's over, folks, you can't stop us. We just need to claim our freedom, join hands, and be that powerful force for good in the world.

Mikki Willis  1:50  
I've been a human rights activist for almost 20 years. As a documentary filmmaker, I've been on the front lines of many of our nation's biggest scandals and protests. From that perspective, I've been an eyewitness to the rise and fall of numerous people powered movements. Nearly every organized resistance I've been a part of has ended just inches from victory for the same critical mistake in fighting. When members of the same group turn against each other. It often begins with whispers about the most prominent spokespeople of a cause these rumors typically sound like I hear John is controlled opposition or some people are saying Jane is compromised. While the use of infiltrators and agitators is a very real thing. I've yet to experience one scenario where such a label was accurately applied. And suspiciously, these labels are always branded on the people who are making the most progress. But the degradation of the reputation goes their contribution to your life. Prior to social media, people actually sat down to dialogue through their differences. Today, without solid evidence or sufficient inquiry, we go directly to our keyboards to vent our suspicions. Even after the rumor is proven false or simply fades away. Some level of doubt and division always remains. This is all by design. Part of what allowed so many people to walk away from Assange with some of the meat to allegations that had surfaced and that were ultimately discredited, stuck in people's minds. The voice is a propaganda are masterful at this game, they knowingly run a false story, then retracted knowing the lie will reach millions are very few will see the correction. Amy Coney Barrett's religious faith has been called into question again. She belongs to the people of praise a group, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has labeled them a hate group. When I say that people of praise had been deemed a hate group. I just got them mixed up with another group, I conflated them. Okay, it happens you know, it's easy to do.

In the words of former CIA director William Casey will know their disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false. The planting of divisive rumors is one of the most common tactics used in psychological warfare as the lies balloon like worker bees, well intended citizens pollinate the masses with poisonous disinformation. What the gossiping bees fail to realize is that they themselves are doing the work of controlled opposition. They are literally unwittingly working on behalf of the very forces they believe they are resisting. Again, all of this is by design. While we've all been distracted by the latest trends and tragedies, everything that has influence on our behavior has been infiltrated by an agenda to control our thoughts. Whether their goal is to make us purchase a product, vote for a political party or submit to experimental inoculations. There are forces at work who understand the functionalities of your mind far better than you do. Their goal is total control. But because they are the few and we are the many, they can only achieve total control to the age old tactic of divide and conquer. You're either with them or with us. Never before have we been so divided divided politics, religion, nation, state, race, class, gender and now, vaccine status. To better understand how we got here, consider these three quotes from The Art of War by Sun Tzu. The Supreme Art of War is to subdue the enemy without fighting. Victorious Warriors win first and then go to war. The secret lies and confusing the enemy so that he cannot fathom our real intent. Those sons who lived over 2500 years ago, his work remains at the heart of our CIA, as well as the Chinese Communist Party's strategy today. It's no coincidence that around the same era as Sun Tzu, The words united we stand, divided we fall, we're first recorded. It is unity that will save our communities.

Unknown Speaker  5:45  
As you see in the audience, Muslims, Christians, the Jewish community, Democrats, Republicans, white, black, everyone, all in between. This is the example of what you get when you choose to attack all members of the human family.

Mikki Willis  5:58  
Our greatest power is our numbers. Hence, the relentless effort to shatter us into broken fragments. As their agendas are being exposed, the dividers will stop at nothing to cover their crimes against humanity. They have bonkers. All we have is each other. The good news is, that's all we need.

Though we are intrinsically interconnected, our minds are being wired to obsess on our differences. Contrary to social indoctrination, we do not have to be ideologically aligned to stand together. We don't even have to like each other. There is only one thing that we must agree on. The freedom is our birthright. Now's the time to let go of whatever it is you're holding on to that keeps you divided from your friends, family and fellow humans. Rise Above all the micro dramas and distractions to see that a much bigger story is unfolding. Swallow your pride, humble yourself. Let it go. I'm not suggesting that we look the other way when someone is clearly thwarting our forward momentum. There are people who deserve to be called out by name, especially those who are undermining our trust in each other. But even then, we should remember that there is a human life being affected by our words. We've been so conditioned to believe we are powerless, that we become careless with our power. Like toddlers with loaded guns. How many times do we need to shoot our own foot we realized the power is in our hands. The only thing that can stop us at this point is us. We've all been lied to scammed fooled, tricked, conned and coerced? Yes, it sucks. But here we are wiser and stronger than we were just three years ago. This is the moment for us to activate our innate ability to create solutions that can only happen for the awareness of symbiosis defined as a mutually beneficial relationship between different groups. All of life depends on relationships. Every living thing is in communication. From the Stars, to the planets, the Earth, the plants, the elements, the insects, the animals, the humans and every cell within us. Real change out there begins with real change inside. The question is, How bad does it have to get before we're willing to change?

Dr. Paul  8:38  
Welcome Mickey Willis, it's nice to have you on. Oh, I was about to say against the wind we just shifted our name to with the wind science revealed. It's great to have you back on the show. Thank you for and it's great to see you. You know, while I was busy being a pediatrician, for the last 35 years, you've been very active human rights. for over 20 years, a best selling author and investigative filmmaker. You're exposing corruption at the highest levels. Your movie pandemic is the most censored documentary in history I was reading. It's like, wow, that means you've done something right.

Mikki Willis  9:14  
Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Paul  9:16  
So you know, I watched your video a call for unity. And that just wow, that touched my heart. Powerful, powerful message. So But before we dive into that, I want our viewers and I need to be reminded. Tell us about your childhood. And what was it in your background that prepared you for this role that you have in society and in our world?

Mikki Willis  9:36  
Well raised by a single mom had four kids on our own, raised on welfare pretty poor. And then in my early 20s, I watched my brother struggle with AIDS for about eight years before he finally was killed by Anthony Fauci, AZT and 34 days later, my mom died of bad cancer treatments. Wow. So that was really the The my first week awakening, you know, there's been several on the path. But that was my first big awakening for me to it really inspired me to start questioning life and looking deeper at what really mattered. And and so I would say that was that was the real catalyst. You know, I had another experience I was at the World Trade Center and 2001 when it was attacked, and that was really a snap to grid for me. And that's what had me leave Hollywood. But it was really the medical stuff with my loved ones that I think it was the stuff that was a catalyst for the work I'm doing now.

Dr. Paul  10:34  
Wow. So you said leave Hollywood, you are in mainstream media Hollywood doing what?

Mikki Willis  10:40  
Oh, yeah. Living living the dream or the nightmare I should say. You know, it's, it's, it's quite a thing, Hollywood, there's so many people are attracted to it. And it's the goal for so many people. And it was for me at 19 years old, I packed up a U haul truck and moved on my own and lived in a little hotel for a little while that next to the Magic Castle in Hollywood. It was actually a magic hotel. And it was anything but magic. And, and then did my did my best to struggle through the maze of Hollywood and model for a short period. And that was the first time I ever got to travel. And so I got to go overseas and see the rest of the world which was also a wake up for me to see how the rest of the world lived, which was an eye opener. And, and then I started acting and I I fell in love with behind the scenes really fast. I lasted I had a little reoccurring part on Days of Our Lives and had a few bit roles here and there. And but I was you know, I was the actor. That was Washington what the camera crew was doing, you know, that's what I wanted to do. And so as soon as I could I actually built a theater and started teaching acting, and, and which, which really led to writing and directing for theater and, and that's when that's where I cut my teeth. And then and then I started directing in the heyday of infomercials, I started directing infomercials. And it's really funny because my kids and I just finished watching an incredible series called 1883, which is a Western, and it is the most powerful television that I've ever seen in my life. I think 10 episodes, but the executive producer of that I recognize the name and I realized, oh, that's the guy that gave him my start, same guy who produced that series. So he was he was doing infomercials at the time. He's moved on to bigger, better things, too.

Dr. Paul  12:39  
So when you broke out on your own, what was your first project?

Mikki Willis  12:45  
First project was a little movie called shoeshine boys, which we later renamed to prank. And it was a little micro budget, dark comedy. And, and it was it was actually the thing that led me to New York 911 2001 We I was there a meeting with distributors to line up a distribution deal. And that's why I was in New York. And I ended up staying there and doing search and rescue and body recovery and all that and, and so that little film in its own way, you know, when I look back at it now I still have it in film format. And there's pieces of it online. But it wasn't the message I wanted to say and it had so many is a great little film. But it had so many things that happen it stopped it you know is about two kids that pulled a prank on America. And right after we finished the film, Columbine happened, and no one would touch it. And it was and then we had the sag strike and all these different things. It just kept momentum and then it would kill it momentum. And then I'm here I'm in New York and just got it did on 982 1001. Kind of a legend in the business said I'm taking this film under my wings, and we're gonna do something with this. And two days later, three days later. 911

Dr. Paul  13:59  
Wow. And then when it came to your activism that started sounds like around 911 era. How did that evolve?

Mikki Willis  14:10  
Well, that was that was kind of a gradual process for me. You know, I avoided politics my whole life. But after the 911 experience, I put everything I had in storage and went to live on a friend's vineyard in the Napa Valley. And I was hired to write and direct the sequel to EZ rider the classic, iconic movie. I wrote the screenplay, and then as it started to get real and Jay Leno announced it and then it was announced the Cannes Film Festival. All the people that were involved in it changed and I saw that that that kind of cannibalism of Hollywood where they all the sharks came out and I found myself in this position that I said I would never be in again. And I walked away from it. I walked away from a $400,000 paycheck, which was I never made anything close to that as an artist at that point in my life, but I just couldn't play the game. And so for me, it was temptation. It was a real, you know, Soul check at what did I really experienced something that changed me, or was it a temporary situation and I'm gonna go right back to my old habits and goals. And but this was the experience for me that was the first time I walked away, I've walked away from millions at this point, but I just I walked away from it. And, and then I started something called the elevat Film Festival, I met the love of my life, which we've been together for 20 years now, won and, and created the elevat Film Festival, because it was really a, it was a global challenge for other filmmakers to create meaningful work, because I know that's why 95% of us get into the business to move people to do something positive. And then the machinery just kind of makes you a slave to selling products and ideologies that are not your own, or that you wouldn't even use yourself and and so we started the Elevate Film Festival. And, and so many people shut up. And this thing blew up overnight and became the largest single screen event in the world. And what that means single screen event what that means is, there's a lot of film festivals that might have, they might be showing films and 20 theaters at once. And they have you know, 300 people per theater or whatever. But we had 6000 per arena watching one screen together. So it's a very unifying and incredible experience and really put us on the map. But after that experience, and realizing that I kind of had another awakening at one point, took a trip and did some time really sacred ceremonies with some indigenous elders in Peru and ended up on top of a mountain and and I got the really clear guidance that we're here to do something bigger, even our next show was at the Hollywood Bowl for 17,000. That it's only 17,000 and that it wouldn't move the needle and that it was almost like a premonition of what was coming that something was coming so much bigger that we needed to prepare for and, and kind of get out of the box of thinking that Hollywood Bowl is big. And understand that this thing called the internet was created so that we could reach the entire human population, or at least those who have internet and and so I dropped the festival at its peak, and and then decided that we're going to dedicate the rest of our our career to making films that make a difference.

Dr. Paul  17:33  
Wow. And does that bring us up to pandemic?

Mikki Willis  17:38  
Well, not quite yet. We, the first my first parlay into politics was like I said, I'd avoided it my whole life. I kind of bought into the old adage of never discuss politics. And so I never did I just, you know, I was happy to stay away from it. And then this character named Bernie Sanders comes along. And you know, as I mentioned, being a kid raised on welfare with a single mom, his rhetoric really moved me. And the idea of helping women and helping minorities and people that were struggling. And at that time, you know, because I wasn't fully aware, I wasn't as a scholar of capitalism or anything like that. I really thought that, you know, all the greedy people are the problem in the world. All the rich people are the problem the world when it really is the greedy people, I should say, yeah. And so I ended up filming an event for Bernie, and then a couple of celebrities that were with him. Shailene Woodley and Rosario Dawson, actually, Rosario was following me online. I didn't even know it. And I was doing a lot of Father Son videos, and, and she was following me online. And she said, why don't you come on the tour with us. And so I ended up filming Bernie's 2016 tour. And that's when I had my political awakening. While I was on tour and asking very straightforward, very clear questions. I was receiving the opposite and answers, nothing clear. Nothing straightforward, and nothing that made sense. And I started to realize that kind of, you know, the street kid in me came out and I realized there's there's a rat here, I'm smelling it, and something's wrong. And the more I got into it, the more I realized that I had been bamboozled by a rhetoric. And so I left the tour and announced online that I was you know, no longer supporting Bernie and that was the first time I saw the shallowness, the fragility of the left and how quick they called me a traitor and I got death threats, and it was just crazy. It was like, for simply stating the fact that I'm making another choice in my life right now. And it was shocking to me, because I didn't know that that's what the party was about. Then I started doing deep homework and really studying politics and the history of and and the history of the parties and policies. And and I just did decided that, from this point on, I'm not going to go into identify with any party, but I'm going to tell the truth wherever that truth lies. And we did the first real kind of crossing the line of the point of no return was when the narrative came out about the Covington students, the Nick Sandman case where, for those who might remember a few years ago, there was a bunch of 15 year old kids from Covington, Kentucky, students, Catholic kids that were at the Right to Life march. And, and it just so happens that the first indigenous peoples March was scheduled right around the corner from that event suspiciously, and that they ended up rallying the boys kind of into their area where they set them up for a massive media smear, saying that the boys surrounded the Native American elders with their red Magga hats on and started chanting build the wall. And I actually started to make a video to expose the kids because I was working at the time with a lot of Native American communities, and particularly Lakota. And they were involved in this and and, and I bought it hook, line and sinker. But I it took me a half a day to figure out that it was an entire setup, and it was a lie. And so in the middle of that I asked my crew, I said, Well, we've all looked at all the footage now we have a two hour live stream. The boys never said Build a wall. They were as polite as can be. We have all their cell phone footage. They're not even, I couldn't find them using the word Damn. They were just saying, Can we be friends? Can we shake hands? They were very cordial. But yet these adults were just doing everything they can to bait these kids and make them look bad. And, and I got my crew together. And I said, Well, we all see the truth now. And this is a truth because these boys appear to represent Donald Trump because they're wearing these red hats. Which the truth of the matter was, I talked with a chaperone that day one of the parents and she said, the kids were getting lost. And she goes just like they do at Disneyland. They saw, you know, you saw a vendor, and there were $5 Red Hats, and they all bought hats, just so they wouldn't lose each other. They don't know what those mean. And what that that's politics, nothing to do with politics. Yeah. But yet these kids are being smeared as mascots for Donald Trump. And I said, if we tell the truth on this one, in this climate, we're never coming back. And so my brave crew said, we're here to tell the truth. So let's just do it. And so we told the truth, and again, another round of smears and death threats and just craziness and, and that was really the, the thing that pushed me over the line to to even go deeper, which is I would say, now we're up to speed on on what gave me the courage to create pandemic. Wow, that's,

Dr. Paul  22:44  
we do share something I was a missionary kid. And I wouldn't say poor, but But yeah, we weren't wealthy, that's for sure. And, you know, missionaries, and in my family, it was always, you know, I had that same feeling that you had, which was that, you know, it's the rich that are the problem and felt like the Democrats were, you know, taking care of the poor and all of that kind of stuff. And what a wake up call we've had right

Mikki Willis  23:08  
huge wake up call and it's you know, I even had my buddy Delbeke train his wife over a week ago, because we were all lefties, I would even say I was a far left, you know, it was a that was as close as you can get to Antifa without without, you know, wearing a stupid face coverings. And but I had Dell and his wife Leo with it the other night too, because we were talking about the future of how it really changes and how do we make change real change and, and, and I was showing them some of my research about the Democratic Party and it shocked them you know, because they knew enough to know that it's the party's behind COVID And it's the it's behind censorship and the lock downs I knew that but they didn't I said you know that it was you know, Republican Party. This is not an endorsement for the Republican Party but it was part of me just ironing out how big of a lie has been told that was founded by 150 Black men and it was the Democratic Party actually was the party of the kk k and and fought against civil rights and and Democrat killed Lincoln over him freeing the slaves you know, it's it's like when you get down to all of that and you realize that the roots of that party because it was really like how did somebody you know, was saying how do we reform the party and I just said it's just if you know the history you wouldn't even ask that question because you can't reform it's like saying I'm gonna go reform the keh keh keh keh keh keh was set up to be what it is. And so it's it was shocking to me, especially being born or raised in California, where everything was pro Democrat and anti Republican. And so it's it's a real wake up call that I hope other people have completely because it until we understand the The the really the inner workings and the roots of that party will continue to be bamboozled and divided by the media that they control 95% off.

Dr. Paul  25:11  
Yeah, this would be a good moment to pivot a little bit, maybe we'll bypass pandemic for the moment and I want to get into your call for unity video. Because Wow. Talking about just politics, Republicans Democrats in that call for unity, you point out that, you know, well, you you share with with our audience, what inspired you for this particular call for unity?

Mikki Willis  25:40  
Well, you know, the video is really about infighting. And so, as a 20 plus year activist, I, it took me a while to learn this, of course, because it's done so covert covertly. But people a lot will pick up military lingo, you know, they'll start saying things like someone's controlled opposition, or they're compromised, or what have you, and, and good people on the same team will start to battle and start to smear each other, and sue each other and slander each other and all this stuff that happens. And I've watched this happen over and over with really important people powered movements. And it's, and what I say in the video is, it's it's suspiciously, it's always the people who are making the most progress, that then get smeared. If you look at I mean, just look at all the people that Julian Assange is of the world of the people that are, you know, they're called the worst things you could possibly be called. They're, you know, many times they're accused of, you know, rape or something like that. totally unfounded. They find one woman like Kavanaugh, right, someone to bring a bunch of unfounded accusations against someone even you know, but but yet no, no one remembers the moment no one remembers where the house is, the friends don't even remember, it's completely fabricated. But that the stigma of the story reduces that person's power to actually make change. And that's what it's about. So when people talk SIOP and a psyop, is a psychological operation, it's a military term. Because the wars these days, because any kind of a, a military strike these days with any other superpower would pretty much mean total annihilation for all of us. We, you know, we're at that point. So, the years ago, I think a lot of the superpowers realized, well, we messed with the US and they had the most powerful military will probably get destroyed. And so let's do it psychologically. And, and I point out in the video that the Art of War by Sun Tzu is a very important book to read. And there's some quotes that I add in that video there, because it's all about defeating the enemy without fighting, it's all about defeating the enemy from within. And so one of the things that I think a lot of Americans are waking up to right now is that the enemies have breached our gates, they're inside, and they're foreign, and they're domestic. And so we are in World War, World war three, and we have been for a number of decades, it just looks very differently than we're used to. And, you know, they've infiltrated our schools or school boards, or as you know, medicine and academia and everything has been infiltrated with destructive ideologies that lead our next workforce, our our, and our military, someone just showed me today an animated military, promotional video, that's just absolutely ridiculous and have a side by side comparing it to what Russia has video, which was really about testosterone field, you know, which some people might have a judgment against that. And then ours was just, I have two moms, and, and we're, you know, and so I found a great way to love the world as joining the military. And it's really just like, unbelievable propaganda for small children. But it's not even really about the military. It's about the ideology of, of further pressing this agenda to confuse our next generations about gender. I am a, you know, liberal, but not in the Democratic sense. I'm liberal in the way that I, I, when I say I stand for freedom, I stand for freedom, and you have the right to do whatever you want to do with your body in your space. So long as it doesn't affect anyone else that doesn't want to experience that and in a negative way, such as bringing those ideologies to someone else's child. And so I have a major problem, which is why my wife and I started a new educational program and the kids were thriving because we just said, There's no way we're going to subject our kids to the ideologies that are being pressed in this in this corrupt educational system. And so getting back onto the Unity video, it was really, I've been mediating so many of the infighting that's been happening with a lot of the top doctors, you're probably the only one that I haven't hadn't had a conversation with about it. But I've spent hours and weeks on the phones, with most of them, just letting them know from my perspective, like Don't take the bait. You can disagree with someone, you can even hate someone go for it, that's fine. That's your, again, freedom. That's that's your choice. But all of this online smearing this going out and public, to to smear someone, if it as I say in the video, there are some people that need to be called out by name. But the majority of the time, they don't the majority of the time, they're just people being egotistical people and are they're saying something and people don't agree that you know, someone's calling it a vaccine, and it's it's not a vaccine, they shouldn't say that. And they, whatever it is, you know, our we need all the bodies, we need the we need the numbers we need. Everyone we can get to at least say we're standing here in this fight together. The moment we turn our attention towards each other, we're wasting so much time. And the enemy there are enemies out there enemies against humanity, enemies against nature and enemies against life. They're laughing at us. Because this is the whole game is division. And I'll say as somebody that was raised adjacent to the, you know, gay and lesbian community because my brother was gay. It was when I was a child. And I was first learned that you my brother's gay, oh, it was kind of I grew up he was 14 years older than me. So from the moment I grew up, I, it was normalized to me. And I don't mean in a negative way, because the community actually treated me wonderfully. A bunch of very wonderful people that my brother bought around, brought around a never, never a problem. That's, you know, but it was easy for me to conceive as a young man. I remember the moment when I went from the gay community to the gay and bisexual is like, well, I can understand next, my brother had a wife, and then he had a boyfriend and Okay, so they went both ways. And then it was gay, bisexual, lesbian, and I thought, Well, what a weird word what the women don't want to be called gay. I don't I remember as a young man going, that's strange to me. But now look what it is LGBTQ i A plus whatever. I'm not endorsing anything. Here, I want the viewers and listeners to know that it's just an example and metaphor to show that that's that's how they want all those groups in fighting. That's why the divide them up. That's why they have feminism when that first started, I think most of us could agree on very simple, women should be voting, and they should have the right to equal rights that men have and all of that, that it was second wave, third wave, fourth wave. And now all those groups are in fighting. And now all the, you know, all the you know, gay people that are saying are fighting against the, you know, transgender women in sports. And so they're all infighting. And so we take our eye off the ball, because now we're all battling each other. And that's the only way, the only way that we can lose this. So I made the video, hopefully, and I'm so glad that it's getting so much traction out there. To just really wake people up to understand that that's, that's truly the game. And as I say in the video, that we're actually doing the work of controlled opposition, when we gossip and smear each other. We need to stand with each other. And like, as I said, even if we don't like each other.

Dr. Paul  33:32  
Yeah, no, absolutely. Sounds like we get pitted against one another with all these little battles. Not that they're irrelevant. But in the big scheme of things, they are irrelevant. What we have one common threat, do we not? And that's the threat against our freedom and bodily integrity. You know, and and if we can't unite around that, we've got the next Holocaust is upon us.

Mikki Willis  33:56  
Well, you know, I was part of producing the defeat the mandates event that took place in DC and Los Angeles. And so we had 10s of 1000s of people show up to this. And there was a moment when he's become a good friend of mine now. Riza Islam came up to me, he had a mask on, he pulled it down, he goes, pandemic, and I said, Yeah, and he goes, Ah, nice work, man. And he walked away and, and, you know, his Nation of Islam, he's, he's taller than I am. He's six, five. And, you know, he was so cordial, and so much gratitude in his eyes for the work that I had done. I stood there and I looked around. And I realized I said, I we have black lives matter here. We have Nation of Islam. We have Hasidic Jews. We have top doctors. We have mothers, we have fathers, we have Christians, we have Muslims. We are all united for our freedom. But around that same time, I realized this optic is going to be bring a whole slew of diversionary tactics that we have to be careful, because now they see us together in that way. They're going to do everything they can to break us apart. And that's that they're doing a really good job of that right now. But I trust that we're going to wizened up and, and recognize the game very soon.

Dr. Paul  35:22  
Yeah, it feels like the propaganda just intensifies. I mean, if you watch anything on mainstream that has to do with COVID, or vaccines, it's just every single word out of their mouths is lies. Yes, yeah. And when you hear that on every single outlet of news, even large social media platforms, my own mother goes, Well, Paul, how could you be right? And everybody else is wrong. Say, mom, I've been living this battle, this whole issue for my entire career, or at least the last 20 years.

Mikki Willis  35:53  
Yeah, that's the illusion of truth, what I call it because that's the that was the hardest thing for people to get when pandemic came out is they would say that all the time, it's just what your work feels valid. Like it resonates with me as truth, but I just can't get with the idea that there's this giant conspiracy going on and all these people are behind it. And I said, well, the vast majority are not behind it. They're just going along with it. And it's the same way that Hitler it's mass formation it's psychosis it's it's it's it's hypnosis. way when Hitler you know, all the dictators and, and totalitarian leaders, they hypnotize the people into doing their dirty work, the same thing for Big Pharma has done, you know, big pharma doesn't fight their battles. They're not they have no, you know, they're immune from having to fight anything. And so who fights for Big Pharma? The people who say something negative about a drug, you say, Ritalin is bad for kids, don't put your kids on Ritalin, oh, you get attacked crazy. You know, and, and, and these are the same parents that will be crying and five years when when their son or daughter is in rehab, or have overdosed and died. You know, and so you can't say anything about these horrific drugs that have been that are killing humanity in record numbers, because Big Pharma has done such a great job at pretending to be the Savior. And that's one of the biggest problems, Paul is that we, we, I think we're so programmed into being followers and waiting for someone to save us, you know, all the hero movies and all that someone's going to come save us that we're always looking for someone to be the knight in shining armor. And this is the moment I've been studying mythology and storytelling for over 30 years. And, and if you look at the work of, let's say, Joseph Campbell, and the hero's journey, and all of that, and all the iconic movies that are worth remembering. There's a common theme. And then it's it's a reluctant hero. It's a hero that goes out in search of the hero. And then they're told the forces within you are the one. That's the common story. That's the hero's journey. And so I think that because we've lost trust, and that's actually a good thing right now. We've lost trust and authority, that we're going to be left with only one source to trust and that's awesome. God. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  38:40  
it feels like people have lost the ability to do critical thinking. And I mean, certainly in medical school, it's very militaristic in the sense of it's top down education. When you're, you graduate from medical school, you become an intern, right? So you pretty much obey what your senior resident tells you who obeys what the attending tells them. And we all listen to the CDC and you know those oh my gosh, those amazing people Yeah, it's it's quite just top down and then you park your ability to think critically it's absolutely hugely concerning. Yeah,

Mikki Willis  39:19  
that's all by design really, you know, the every every device that we're addicted to and and just the our surroundings enhance our this this kind of default system we have for to become dependent to be taken care of. Yeah, and and it kind of flies in the face of what should be the goal and that sovereignty you know, my wife said today and we're I'm hyper aware of it you might my boys were in Texas, and it's as close as it can get to snowing right now. It's everything's frozen and I have an eight year old and 11 year old and two extraordinary young men and their adventures. And so I don't even know what the temperature is right now. But it's cold. And they decided they wanted to go to the park. And so we live half a mile from the park. And so of course, I go, Okay, fine, have a good time. And so, you know, my, my wife, she says, They have Apple watches. So she says, just let me know when you made it there. And, and then they let her know that they made it. And then a little while she was caught, a lot of time has passed, it might be getting him to call, I should go pick them up. You know? And I said, No, let's please, please don't, please don't, because they made a choice to go out into uncomfortable environment. And I don't want them to feel that they can make radical choices and just be bailed out. I want them to deal with the consequences of their choice. And that might be uncomfortable, and they might be really cold. But let them experience that. Because that's an incredible lesson for us and know that what that our life is comprised of moment to moment choices. And so many of our youth have been coddled to the point of not, that's why they have safe spaces now, right? Someone says something that you deem to be violent speech. And then you need a safe space. So you can avoid being challenged by someone's voice, which is a word is just a breath and a vibration, that sound. So we're literally becoming so fragile that we can't deal with, with speech. Not us, but so many of us. And it's a very dangerous thing. And that's all part of the SIOP. Because when you have a generations of people that are too fragile to hear, speech, they don't agree with how they're going to protect the country. Yeah, how are they going to become an entrepreneur, which requires a lot of stamina, dealing with defeat, and failure, and drama and legalities. And they're not, they're not going to do anything. And that's the goal. It's like, they just let the you know, just take the stipends or socialist stipends from the state, which comes with total control. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  42:25  
So are you allowed to talk about your next movie yet?

Mikki Willis  42:29  
Oh, yeah, I have, I have three movies, there'll be four movies, actually, but three of them I can talk about.

Dr. Paul  42:35  
Fantastic. So the next one coming, I believe, is pandemic three, right.

Mikki Willis  42:41  
Pandemic three, the Great Awakening, I wish it were, I wish it was the next one. It's, it's the last in line of the three, I have a couple others that will be out before then we have a movie called bad medicine about people being killed by remdesivir. And ventilators in the hospital, we have a movie called Follow the silenced, which has been a year and a half or so in the making. And that is about the people that were severely injured, and what they're doing to heal and, and really the truth behind the people that were vaccine injured. And then we have planned to move through the Great Awakening, which is the big picture, it's less about COVID, and more about what COVID was used for. And, and the people behind it. And, and also the the mask formation aspect of what keeps us out of our ability to critically think and how to wake up from that, how to wake up our loved ones from that, and how to how to create, create our way out of this mess.

Dr. Paul  43:40  
Wonderful. I mean, that's, I can't wait for that movie, because that is part. The biggest conundrum and challenge is so many of my loved ones being as I came from that liberal environment, right, I live in Oregon, and we're almost everybody's democratic here. And I don't have a party. I'm I'm just like you, we're gonna follow the truth. And we're going to stand for the truth. And that's that, but you have your loved ones who you see them kind of headed towards the cliff, right? And you want you want to save them? And how how do we do that? When they're, I can't wait to see to see her movie.

Mikki Willis  44:19  
Yeah, thank you. We were putting a lot of effort into it. It's, it's I unfortunately, fortunately, and unfortunately, I have to take a break for about a month from it. Because I have a movie that I'm going to film for Prager University starts it starts on the 13th. And so we'll knock that one out. And probably three weeks or so it'll be a quick one. But you know, when I sat down to say what the reason the pandemic one really hit that Zeitgeist was the timely subject. And the whole world was asking questions of what's really going on, they could feel that something was up. And so when I sat down to say what is the next thing that we can say that will be as important as the first one or more. It was really about solutions. It's it's, it's we have been systemically divided from our nature. And this has happened, I've never been more aware of it than I am today. Even some of my favorite films that perpetuate the narrative that humans are a parasite on the planet, a failed experiment. This is all when we lower our esteem of what it is to be human. It's actually the most disrespectful thing we can do. That we can believe against the gift that is life and against the creation of life, is to somehow assume that, and I get it because I used to have a saying, when I was much younger, I say I were just moss on a rock. And we're trying to make meaning out of the tourists Masana rock, just growing wild. And here we are trying to make it mean something. I don't believe that anymore. I believe that we are brilliant, and resilient. The human body is one of the most extraordinary instruments ever, that we're capable of so much more than I think we've ever been allowed to explore. And that the gift of this horrific situation of the past two and a half plus years, is that I think it's forcing us to confront that truth.

Dr. Paul  46:36  
Amen. Absolutely. So I don't know if you can share this. But what's the best way for people to break this spell when you're under that spell? Because you you can't see or critically think because you're already under that spell?

Mikki Willis  46:55  
Yeah. Well, well first, stop paying attention. And when I say paying attention, I mean that in a very literal sense, our attention. I mean, mentioned, I've been studying the work of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey for years. And within the hero's journey, mythologies, they'll always talk about the Holy Grail or the boon, it's this treasure, the Jewel of the Nile, it's the treasure that a lot of the heroes are going after. And that might be love that might be survival. And a lot of times it's a lot of money or it's some some ancient treasure or whatever it might be. And and I asked myself years ago, so what what is the holy grail? Like, what is it really because I, all these movies are metaphors for the Holy Grail, but what is it and a few years ago, I it just came to me I said, it's, it's this thing we call our attention. Our attention is the rudder of our ship it the wheel that controls the rudder of our ship. And our attention has been hijacked. I know this from producing commercials and being in boardrooms with high level ad executives that the entire objective is to capture your attention. That's why you see so many commercials with you know, scantily clad women has nothing to do with the hamburger or the car, they're selling or whatever. But it gets your attention. So you look, because women look and men look and then it's like, by the way, we're selling this and it has nothing to do with the product or the ingredients in the product or how its how its formulated, that didn't really care about that anymore. It's just good branding and and capture your attention. And then you become a lifelong customer, you buy their product and most of the products are made with ingredients that are addictive. So once you start you'll be a customer for life. And so for us to an answer to your question, it is to become the masters of our attention again, we get to place our attention wherever we choose it to be. And because it's been hijacked right now, many people the will of their attention is in someone else's hands. And so they hear a phrase, they see a billboard there, whatever, and they just go like a robot and they move there and they and they react and they get on the front lines and they start chanting slogans that they don't even know what they mean because they their attention has been hijacked and so to reclaim that to become you know, the that is our dominion is is I get to choose it's helped me understanding this when I did help me through the My 911 experience and all of that because there was a moment when I had seen a lot of stuff while we were collecting body parts and and I had a we were told 40 Some hours and everyone needed to go take all the rescue workers go take a nap, because otherwise we'd be dangerous to ourselves and everyone else around and so I tried to and I had this little this little lucid dream him were a voice said to me, this could be your Vietnam. And I set up and I had to think about that, what what does that mean? And I realized that as a young man, being born in the late 60s, that my impression of Vietnam vets was the guys that I saw on the corners that needed a lot of help. And, you know, begging for food and help, because of what they saw messed them up somehow that they couldn't participate in society in a healthy way. And so I thought, Wow, this could be my Vietnam cheese. Have I seen too much already? Do I get to choose? Or is it just, is it just automatic. And I remembered that my attention is my holy grail I get to choose. And so I shifted from a place of fear to a place of gratitude, I had a great cry. And I realized how lucky I was to be standing on the rubble of this experience, that, that most of the world was wishing they could be there to help. And somehow, I ended up there and this moment that I could did, I could be part of this horrific, historic experience in my nation. And so it shifted, that became the catalyst for good stuff. I didn't have the health issues that a lot of people I was with had. I didn't have no no, no PTSD, except for very mild anytime I hear. You know, Earthmovers of the beat beat backing up. Right away. I always flashback but it's not a negative flashback. It's just a memory. So it's a very valuable thing for us to protect the same way that we protect our infants protect your attention. Where do you place it? When they say paying attention? You are paying with your attention? So what are you paying? What are you funding? Propaganda? Watch, be very careful at what you pay attention to. I taught my boys this. And now sometimes I'll say, Can I watch some dad, they'll turn it on, I'll walk out of the room, I come back and TV's off and I go, what happened? You don't like it, they go, No, it's propaganda. Good for them. You know, and, and so it's like, to be able to say is attractive as this is as alluring as this might be, I'm bored, I need entertainment. Protect your attention and and place it where it needs to be, you know, learn, study, grow. And, and, and also stay out of the negativity. You know, that's another thing fear it, there's, there's there's chemical as there's things that occur in the world of dopamine and serotonin, and that we have to understand what we experience triggers these hormones, and thus creates, we create our reality from the experience, of, of, of, of what gets released in our body. And so the more we experience, doom and gloom and fear, the more we're triggering this addiction to doom and gloom and fear. And, and if we understand that the human body is like a radio of your car, is a receiver and a broadcaster, it receives through that little antenna, and then it and then broadcast the music for you. We are receivers and broadcasters. And so if we're, we spend our time absorbing and consuming negativity, that's the station that we're tuned to. That's the music that we're broadcasting in the world. So on one hand, we're here trying to do something good in the world and do something positive. But as I say, you know, the majority of our of our thoughts are unconscious, unconsciously 90% of our world has been created negatively. And so the more that we become aware of the realities of the negativity, I don't mean bypass it by not looking at it, but be be aware. And then transform it transmute it. You know, it's like alchemy transmute that into just like I did on the, at the World Trade Center. I said, this could destroy me, and this could be my Vietnam, or it could be something wonderful. I get to choose what that is. And so for me to my, my personal work has been shortening that space between the, the negative experience and the alchemy, because I know that a lot of the negative experiences I've had in my life, I look back two years, 10 years later, and I went wow, that breakup was the best thing that ever happened to me at the time. It was disastrous, but what a gift. So now my life is about something happens and it occurs to me as as I resist it in the moment. And then I just go I'm an I look back on this as a gift. So I might as well do it now save me save myself some time, and then doesn't stick to us. And it doesn't change our music. So we can broadcast what we came here to sing.

Dr. Paul  55:11  
Wow, you can tell a lot about a person by where they put their attention or where they spend their money and their time. That's a huge, powerful reminder to all of us. As we wrap up, I'm just curious how you study this, and in your filmmaking, at this point, what are the greatest threats that you see coming? And how do we prepare?

Mikki Willis  55:36  
Well, China's a really big threat. And so China is dead set on becoming the next superpower. And they they own majority of our debt. They're producing 90 plus percent of all the precious materials that we need for things like microchips, computer chips, everything that, you know, has to do with our cell phones and technologies. They've had spies in our universities for decades, stealing all of our secrets. And when I, when I say that, I want to be super clear that it's not the wonderful, brilliant Chinese people, it's the Communist Party. And what people don't know is that we are in a cultural revolution here. So if you study Mao, and what happened in China with Mao's Cultural Revolution, to get people to, to adhere to what where China is right now, which is in a state of total communism. I mean, they don't hide it. They call it the CCP, it's the Chinese Communist Party. And people are prisoners, you hear a lot of propaganda people saying, Oh, you guys are all wrong. No, it's these people cannot speak out of line. They just had a protest. And one thing that a lot of people don't know here in America is the vast majority of those protesters have disappeared. And that's China China if you have religious beliefs that they don't agree with which is they're atheists so that means any religious belief it's not uncommon that they will kidnap you take your Oregon's sell them and bury you. This is a reality that's occurring today that a lot of people don't want to look at. And so so that's China. And and they are, they are a big threat to what we're doing here. That's the CCP and is very big threat. They're having some troubles economically, which it could could slow this process and could be our saving grace. But we also don't want China to fail because they have such a stranglehold on us and the rest of the world that if they fail, we all fail. So we don't want destruction for China. But we certainly I would love to have them kind of give up their their strike against our life and our future here. So there's that. And, and the Cultural Revolution, the Mao's Cultural Revolution basically did away with everything worth living and dying for. So they created a genderless society, they shaved that woman's women's heads, they put everyone in the same uniform, they wanted a sexuality. They really messed up though, because with their one child policy and all of that, that they're facing, collapse, their population is so old, because they don't have new people being born, that they they have ghost cities, entire cities that are unpopulated, so this is part of why they're in an economic down word spiral right now. And so that's very, that's, but that's what the has been implemented here. So this kind of a Marxist, this, these woke agendas that seemed benevolent, and, and moral and, and just about freedom, just about inclusivity. Just about it's all of this is the Cultural Revolution, this is how they do it. They they push against any kind of religion, because religion gives people strength, they don't, they will, they will die for their faith. They push against the family big time, because there's very few things that men would fight over more than protecting their family. So they break down the family, they want to make the kids part of governed by the government. And they've made great progress in this nation already, as we've all been seen and learning. And so all of that depends on political policies, if that continues or not. We have a very corrupt voting system. And so we have to fix that. Because politicians are selected, they're not elected. And so we have to make sure that that's fixed, so that we can actually start welcoming in the people that we understand Understand this. And because any further momentum that this gains moves us further away from the sovereignty and survival, quite quite honestly. So We have to be aware of that. But to be aware that, you know, I've been an environmental activist for 25 years or so. And I will tell you that the vast majority, majority of the climate narrative is absolute BS. We are 100% doing harm to our environment. There is something called manmade climate change to a certain degree, but not to a disastrous degree, we are affecting the climate. Our real issue is pollution. We're polluting our soil, our water, our air, everything you can imagine, they don't want to call it pollution though, because there's solution to every every style of pollution, there's a solution, we have the money for it, we can clean up our oceans, we can clean up our soil, we can start stop spraying harmful chemicals on our crops, we can we can do this stuff tomorrow. So they don't want to call it that they want to name it some invisible boogeyman that only politicians have access to helping. And so for people to be really aware that your emotions are being toyed with I call it weaponized morality. And so when you hear particularly the, the Democratic politicians talk about anything that sounds good, it's probably not, it's probably just a way to capture the rest of your liberties. And they'll never fix the problem. So let's wizened up to that and understand that that is the game a lot of them don't know, that's the game they're playing, you know, the AOC is or the world or whatever, they're just puppets. They've been so indoctrinated that they believe it. So it's not like they're, they're, you know, intentionally lying to the people. They're just incredibly misinformed. And so climate change is going to be COVID was a dress rehearsal for climate change. Climate change is where they're going to issue carbon credits, they're going to start telling people what kind of cars to drive they've already started, you know, hinting out, you know, getting rid of gas stoves, and it's total control, it's what kind of stove you can have, what kind of car you can have, how many miles a month, you can drive, if at all, they're trying to create the cities where everything you know, Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum are talking about these cities now beyond smart cities, but these these cities where everything's within 15 minute walk, so there's no reason you can just have a bike and bike everywhere. But those are fully surveyed cities and and that's what they ultimately want like China has literally I've seen them facial recognition systems you know, crowds of people coming out at rush hour and every single person that machine picks them up immediately and there's their name there's their information there's a data you're gonna data basic until you all you have 50,000 people that walked the street that day and and in that car that's how they got these protesters is a facial record recognize all of them and they went one by one and swept them up. And And trust me, no one will after that, because you had it back in tenement square and then now modern day which everyone i Everyone who knows China's like these people are brave enough to to protest in China right now. Those are the bravest people on the planet. And but no one will ever do that again. Until that until that regime changes because they made an example out of them and now they're gone. Wow. In jail or dead? I

Dr. Paul  1:03:23  
don't know. Yeah. Incredible. Well, I know people can go to pandemic series.com, right to get more information.

Mikki Willis  1:03:32  
Pandemic series.com has all of my films on there and all my films are free, my book is free, I refuse to profit off of anything pandemic related. So my audio book is right on there, click on it and download it. You'll see we have a little The only thing that I because I don't know how I survive these days except for trying to find you know, little little merchandise stuff to sell it. So we have shirts like this, we have hoodies and shirts and hats. You see that on the website that's called Rebel lion that that's our our store that we created so that we can stay afloat. I welcome anyone we work 100% on donations. And it all goes to make the movies that you've all seen out there and there's a donation button on pandemic series.com. I appreciate that if people can support us and and I appreciate you for your continued support. I love coming full circle back with you. I think the first time we sat down I just looked at that interview the other day, it just popped up on my harddrive. And I just remember having such a great experience sitting next to you and feeling your incredible compassion and love for humanity. So anything you ever need, don't hesitate to call me.

Dr. Paul  1:04:44  
Thank you Mickey. Folks, you've if you've gotten this far, you've already watched the call for unity. Go to plan demic series.com and support Mickey and his work and watch those movies if you haven't seen them yet. They are powerful and life changing. Thanks Mickey. Thank you

I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to with the wind science revealed. I interview today Dr. Pierre quarry President, Chief Medical Officer for the frontline COVID-19, Critical Care Alliance. This is an important one folks, he shares his personal story and his journey, the key information from the Ron Johnson hearing regarding the COVID vaccines, and then the most important data the world needs to know about what is going on with COVID. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Pol, from the heart. Today, it's about freedom. This is inspired by my co author Jennifer Margulis whether we're discussing the Palestinian situation, the Holocaust apartheid, the vaccine mandates or forced medical care. Freedom is all important. I live in America, land of the free we say. But I want to read the First Amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peacefully to assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances. So, if you care about freedom of speech, if I care about freedom of speech, that's going to apply to everyone, even people whose opinions differ from mine. I may disagree, I may not understand how they could be missing so much. I may feel they're incredibly misinformed, or even brainwashed. But we either stand for freedom for all, or we're gonna lose it. Before COVID, I wouldn't have imagined I wouldn't have thought it possible that we could lose the freedoms that we have here in the United States. But now it's clear, we must stand strong. And we must all stand or we lose all our freedoms.

Welcome back to pure quarry. Two with the wind science revealed it is an honor to have you on our show.

Pierre Kory, MD  2:16  
Thank you. I'll say Likewise. Thank you. You know,

Dr. Paul  2:19  
we we met briefly at the Wisconsin Vax con where I was speaking and then you joined our panel and about wow, I finally get to meet this man. And then I attended your conference, the Florida FL CCC conference that where you are a main speaker. And so I'm just so in gratitude to you for your courage to speak out. And at great risk to your own career. You are the if I'm not mistaken. You are the president and Chief Medical Officer for the frontline COVID-19. Critical Care Alliance. Correct? Correct. And I have to say, I was reading your standards of care. Oh, you also wrote the book ivermectin, the war on ivermectin, which is so important. But I was reading your standards of care. And I just had to chuckle at your background. Before we even get to the college and medical school part of your story. I was just curious, is there anything in your childhood and your growing up that prepared you for what we've been going through and your ability to have the courage to do what you've done?

Pierre Kory, MD  3:23  
So I'm going to say, No, I wouldn't say that there's something specific that prepared me. But you know, what, here's what I know, just we don't know, like, the whole nature nurture thing. We don't know why we are the way we are. Right. I will say maybe I could probably attribute some of my like, kind of character personality to my father and that he was always kind of his views were, you know, he wasn't a guy who kind of went with, you know, the flow. He I think he always tried to question things, he always thought of things a little differently than, you know, whatever the prevailing, you know, opinions were. So that might have had a nearly influence. But really, what I noticed is when I got to medicine, I mean, I would just have these visceral reactions to when I was starting to practice, like I was seeing how people were doing stuff. And I was like, why are we doing it that way? Like I always questioned whatever the orthodoxy the standard of care was, like, I just always felt we could do it better. And, and then another reason why I questioned that is because the stuff the ways in which we were delivering care, I mean, some of it's been, it's like, two decades without really any kind of evolution or improvement. So I was always kind of trying to push the envelope and, and I would say, then you have COVID, right, which is now that's a different situation. COVID totally novel disease in some ways, right? And so, in the beginning was actually kind of freeing, which is like, we got to figure this out. You know, the do that you're gonna wait around for a randomized control trial to tell you what to do is ludicrous. However, Paul, I don't want to finish I'm gonna stop on this point because I think it'd be a good point to discuss. You know, what happened to me was I was the chief of the, the critical care service, I was the director of the main med surg ICU at the University of Wisconsin, one of the biggest, you know, research institutions, academic medical centers in the country. And in that position, when COVID was calming, and when it started to hit the, you know, we were having these briefing calls every day, which I was, like, in charge of, so like, everybody was calling in, like all the intensivists all the residents, all the fellows, the hospitalists, you know, all the frontline doctors and I was the clinical lead. And I was learning different stuff. And here's what I did something really bad, is I started to suggest, Hey, guys, you know, the mortality rates that we're hearing that from my colleagues in New York that landing on ventilators and not coming off this supportive care only nonsense. These patients are under treated as then I'm talking about the hospital phase. I said, Listen, I think we need to hit him with steroids. And I had very good reasons for that. And then we saw clotting, like we've never seen that was promoting anticoagulation. But here's my point, is when I started to do that, I was also promoting IV vitamin C for lung injury, because there's really good data on that. And I ran into some headwinds, Paul, like my chief and my chair, they were getting very concerned that I was in the lead here. And I was proposing wait for it wait for unproven therapies. And literally, so what happened was because this led to my resignation, that's how I lost my first job in the pandemic. It wasn't, wasn't corruption, it was me being a public figure with opinions that counted the narrative. But literally what happened is, they were basically telling they were overruling me, they started to take over the leadership of these calls, and they were just like hammering away, you know, supportive care only follow the guidelines as if there were guidelines. But basically, they didn't want us to try to treat these patients unless we had some multicenter, double blind prospective randomized control trial. And I'm like, well, that's not going to be around for like, you see, that thought process that I was having, I thought it was a rational sound. pragmatic. Empathy was Hippocratic, you know, like, you know, I don't want to hurt these patients. But these guys, I mean, my chief and my chair like, oh, you know, we've tried anticoagulation in ICU for years, and it's never worked and steroids are problematic. And I'm like, have you seen the clotting of these patients? Like, you gotta understand when I was in the ICU, we had dialysis circuits, clotting. Nurses were trying to do a blood, it was clotting, it was like, but it was like, so plain as day like they were crazy. Yeah. And so anyway, long story short, it would happen there is it got so bad, and then the dean of the school moved against me and got the committee that had approved the use of IV vitamin C in this disease, got them to remove it. And when I saw that the entire leadership of the institution was literally countermanding, what I wanted to do and what I was trying to propose. I resigned and I said, you know, it, I say I am morally and ethically troubled that this is how you guys can approach I said, I refuse to be a clinical leader. But the point to your question is like, I don't know the way I think and assess and do it seems like it's, I'm in a distinct minority, like the prevailing the prevailing thoughts on this. I thought it was crazy. But then I'm gonna thinks I'm crazy. Who's crazy, Paul?

Dr. Paul  8:45  
It's what what's interesting is medicine is a very militaristic top down. Approach, right? I mean, when we're in medical school and medical students, we listened to the interns and residents and they listened to the fellows who listened to the attendings. You were at the top. Yeah. But what and so they were supposed to listen to you. But they somehow this group thinks that like

Pierre Kory, MD  9:08  
you just said, those above me right in that militaristic top down. You know, I think everybody under me was actually a lot of the doctors are kind of cheered for because they're like, Yeah, I want to use steroids. I wanted like, some of them were starting to do stuff, but then they came down over the top on us.

Dr. Paul  9:23  
I imagine you were seeing results where it's you. Yeah, I have to let people who are watching know that because not everybody understands an intensivist. And you are at the top of that discipline in the trenches, treating patients intensivists are at the top of the top of medicine, because you deal with the absolute sickest, most complicated patients. So this isn't theory you're talking about you are living that what exactly happened when COVID-19 hit? Yep, yep. And your journey to that Top I when I was reading your standards of care, I just had to travel that's I almost went to Grenada to the university you went to high. That's it. That's a long way to go. Right to get to where you got you, obviously are incredibly intelligent, hardworking. And yeah. Is there anything in that journey that also maybe prepared you for adversity? Imagine you saw something along the way?

Pierre Kory, MD  10:28  
Well, I think it was a lot of adversity that I self created my life because if you read that piece was a little bit of a personal kind of history biography. And, you know, I freely admitted that, you know, as, you know, as a college student, I was very immature. I mean, come on, let's just be honest, I like to be social embody. And I really neglected my studies. I mean, I was a smart guy did well on standardized tests. And, you know, I was a mathematics major, I have a degree in mathematics, which is no small feat. And but I just didn't take school seriously, I was much more interested in social connections and skiing. I went to school in Boulder, you know, so it's very hard to like, you know, put your head down and study in Boulder. And so the adversity is that, you know, here I am, leaving college with a 2.6 GPA for a guy who purportedly wanted to be a doctor. And there's no path. There's no easy path. Now, what's interesting about that is just a memory just reminded me. I remember. So I have a huge family in France and lots of uncles and aunts and my uncle who's like a retired four star general in the French military. He got really active in Rotary Club. And I remember when I was visiting him one year, maybe 1015 years ago, he invited me to a rotary club luncheon. And he just wanted me to talk about like, my story. And I talked about how I came to medicine, which is so foreign for France, because here's the difference in America, you can have a second chance, right? So my route, which is I was in the restaurant business in my 20s, went to graduate school to you know, clean up my little academic record was successful in graduate school. And then I decided my only option be a doctor, I had an option to go offshore. And I pursued it, and I went to school at like 29 years old, which is very atypical. If that was in France, you are done. There are no second chances for the professions. I mean, you gotta like do everything right from the beginning. And so that atypical route I had, I think he's very American. And I'm glad that there is a route and so but yeah, I think there was some adversity and I had to be really committed to pursue that. I really, I want to say like, I had a dream, but I decided, I'm going to free this out, I want to go to medical school. That's just what I want to do. And I just kept at it until it happened.

Dr. Paul  12:46  
And what made you choose critical care? Oh, that's a

Pierre Kory, MD  12:49  
great question. So here's the funny part about that. I went to medical school to become a pediatrician. And I had, I swear it was very Norman Rockwell Ian, I had this very romantic view of like that, you know, those beautiful old you know, paintings where this benevolent kind physician, you know, puts a stethoscope on the child's chest and does house calls, like, I had this very romantic notion of kind of like a family physician and pediatrician. Problem is, when I got there, I did a pediatrics rotation. And I was like, I couldn't stand it. I was it was so just not what I wanted to do. I was in a very busy outpatient practice in Brooklyn and I had a very negative reaction. And then as medical school went on, wait for it. Everybody in my fourth year knew I was going into psychiatry. Literally, I was like, you know, like in fourth year med school said, Hey, what are you going into? What are you going to everybody knew I was going into psychiatry, and then I did a rotation in Manhattan Psychiatric Center, which is essentially like a center for like the criminally insane. You know, some of them got admitted in the 70s for like pushing someone in front of a subway car. And they were they were so densely schizophrenic. What bothered me about that was not the patient's it's I had a very negative reaction to the attendings and the psychiatrists working in this facility. You know, we go into specialties where we're kind of attracted to someone like a mentor, like there's something about it, it's usually because you you develop a close, when I say attraction, obviously, I don't mean, you know, physical or sexual is just, you know, I was the opposite with the psychiatrist. I was like, I can't work with these people. And then so going back to critical care, I ended up going into internal medicine because that seemed the safest and the broadest. I'd find my way there. And then as I was in training, I mean, whenever there were emergency stuff going down in the ICU, the ICU guys and gals, like they came in like, like just, I mean, I was so impressed with them. They knew everything. Ventile leaders had to intubate, like, they just put out, like, they just manage like the most intense emergencies. And I was like, I just thought they were the baddest of the baddest that, you know, they know all of the specialties. They had all of these skills. And I was like, I want to be like those guys. Yeah, I was scared. I was scared. I was scared of ICU. I mean, it's really intimidating.

Dr. Paul  15:22  
It's intense. I love my ICU experience. And the only reason I stayed away from as I looked at the lifestyle, you guys weren't hard, long, long hours, you're away from your family a lot. And I was like, Ah, I don't know if I want to pay that high of a price. But thank you for doing that. So let's get back to when COVID hit because as you saw things unfold. Maybe we can put it in this way. I know you spoke at the Senator Ron Johnson hearing. And this was very important, because he's asking the questions sort of unraveling. What happened? Well, well, you lived it. What What would you say are the most important take home points that we should now know, we now we're looking in the retrospective scope? We have a lot of data. What are the most important points, maybe what you shared at that hearing? Or just what you now feel are the most important take homes, starting from when you realize we had this novel thing happening or somewhat novel? Yeah.

Pierre Kory, MD  16:21  
Well, that's a big question. Because it's so broad. So let me just answer, like the things that three years in this is not going to be a positive answer. Because it's more of an explanation for what went wrong, as I understand it, is what I've learned is that science, the medical sciences are so rigidly controlled by influences that are not scientific. And I didn't know that. So like the things that I learned, for instance, and this has been well documented for decades in books, many people have talked about this. I didn't know this. But the high impact medical journals are fully captured by the pharmaceutical industry going into COVID. We all you know, we all venerated those journals. I mean, when when a study was published in those journals, that's the best study by the best trial list. And that has the most meaning, right? And so you always put those and put more value on those than anything else. And if you see what happened in COVID, at the high impact medical journal level, I mean, they I believe that an old because I the way, I think of COVID. It's been a massive marketplace for fraud and corruption. I have lived in a country, which is not unlike many other countries. But I've lived in a country now for three years, where I've seen a succession of policies that are non scientific. There's no true rational scientific basis for every single policy from beginning the lock downs, right? I mean, the lock downs, the mask, let's just say that one was undetermined, I actually don't go crazy on the mass stuff, I think, I think the rigidity of like mass mass mass is the only answer was a little crazy without net without sort of looking at the downstream and negative adverse consequences. But I've seen non scientific policies and the biggest crimes, and the catastrophe that was created is that we've lost millions from the suppression of early treatment drugs, and we are losing millions from deaths due to the vaccine around the world. And it's not only the deaths, it's not only the mortality, it's the morbidity, we have a pandemic of those who are injured and or dead. And how did that happen? I think the entire foundation for all of it exists at the high impact medical journal level, because once you have the science to support this stuff published there. And when I say science, that's it's not the science. Those are very corrupted journals, they censored all positive studies of early treatments. They only published studies which purportedly prove that these medicines don't work. And if you saw that with hydroxychloroquine, and then the the relentless, almost uniform, positive publication of papers that supposedly supported vaccines, and the papers just got more and more absurd, and the constant ignoring of the adverse events which are so so basically what I've learned, I've gone back to your question, I mean, for me, the way I just been transformed, like, what I believe three years ago, and what I believe now I look at society completely differently. I'm a little strange from it. I discovered a world that I was living in that I didn't know I was living in Jonestown. I'm saying like, I mean, going back to the hard working ICU like, although I read the papers, and I'm very well read from a kid I was As an avid reader, you know, I do like different topics, I would say the last 15 years of my life thought, Man head down in the ICU, teaching and reading medicine, I was like on a steady diet, I'm like this one's field. And I wasn't paying attention to the wider world. And then what happened is my expertise that I developed in COVID, kind of just put me out into a society that was behaving very strangely, for the stuff that I was trying to do. I was just trying to do the right thing here, I was trying to like, share my insights, share my experiences, share my research on what I knew about how to treat this disease. And the way in which that was received, left me with a lot of questions. You know, so, you know, it's, I don't know if that's the right answer, or if that answers your question. But I think what, here's the, here's the deal, right? Using that metaphor, blue pill to red pill, right, so I am now like this red pilled person, I see society. And I see, I see things that are happening that I never knew was out there, I see forces. I don't want to sound like I'm hallucinating. But now I'm wreck, I can understand the world's behavior because I know who's behind it now. Right. And, and I didn't know that was the case before. And so I think it's really important that we understand that unfortunately, our public health system that's nationally and globally has been unfortunately captured, our federal agencies are captured. And those are pretty strong statements, but they are fully captured by those which have other non scientific objectives. I mean, they they want to sell stuff, they want us to take pills, they want to, I mean, I try to leave it at the pharmaceutical industry level, because when you go higher, then you can go into like, you know, lots of other more ominous stuff. But what I can say confidently is I haven't seen science, you know, guiding what we do. But here's the thing, most of the doctors in the medical system, they still have implicit faith and trust in the institutions of science. So if you're going to still trust that the agencies are doing the best they can, using the best science they can, keeping up with the data, and evolving their guidance accordingly, using their best judgment without conflicts of interest. If you really believe that's how those agencies operate, you're not going to question a lot of stuff, and you're going to think everything is going along just fine. And we're all doing the best we can. And I would, I would argue there's many, the majority of the system still believes that they have faith in the agencies and faith in those journals. And they don't know that they're being lied to. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  22:45  
you can't unsee what you've seen, you can't unknow what you know, and that puts you in a in a very strange place, doesn't it?

Pierre Kory, MD  22:52  
Does it they put you in also, I don't want to use the word fringe, but it puts you in a minority. Right. And, and one of the best ways that I like to talk about this and Chris Martenson first gave me this kind of construct. But you know, what I found in my COVID journey is I kind of left the system first voluntarily than forcefully. And, you know, because of my expertise on ivermectin, I started to develop this worldwide national and global network of really interesting lay people, researchers, scientists, clinicians, large network of ivermectin researchers, and you know, the things that we know and learn and share in the data that we pull from. And we use many, many different data sources. And we've seen like, when you really look at the data from any number of sources, your conclusions are very different than what the system is. And so I'm in this segment of society where we know things that most of the rest society doesn't mean. So I use the term that's kind of private knowledge, right? That's not common knowledge, the stuff that we know. So like you said, once you see you can't unsee it, but now you're you're in it, you're living in a society where you have possession of really important private knowledge. And I feel morally ethically responsible to try to make that common knowledge because it's really important, because it'll save lives and promote health. But when you're in that minority, and the common knowledge is actually largely fraudulent and full of lies. You then you then I find that I'm at war. I believe this is a war of information and you know, the other side does not like truth, you know, propaganda the number one enemy of propaganda is truth and the best way in which to fight the truth is to fight the truth tellers. You want to take away their credibility, which takes away their voice right because if you can be be made a fringe quack, right wing conspiracy theorist anti Vaxxer all the labels have been thrown at me And then I appeared to everyone uncredible. And the only people listened to me is that group of private knowledge, folks, it's very hard to get into the common knowledge folks to touch to talk to them, to get them to listen.

Dr. Paul  25:15  
So you had that top position in an ICU at a major teaching institution? Certainly there were people below you, who respected you. Oh, yeah, of course. Are there still some people in that institution who respect you? Or do they have to all sort of submit to this narrative that they're that they're required to follow that narrative to keep their job?

Pierre Kory, MD  25:38  
Wow, you went to the heart of a major issue? So here's how I'll answer I don't, I don't know. We are going to enchance in general. So in my years, in my academic career, I was also at one point, I was like, one of the youngest program director, so I ran, I ran a program, a pulmonary critical care fellowship, so I trained doctors going into my specialty. And so I have years and years of doctors, you know, mentees of mine, I have a lot of colleagues that I was at around the country and taught with my ultrasound experience, you know, I have this huge network of former colleagues and trainees. And in the beginning, when I first came out was public about the use of corticosteroids. In you know, hospital phase disease, I definitely was hearing the support, I had people reaching out to me, and I think they're like, oh, Pierre, and, you know, some of them were like, we should have listened to Pierre. Because remember, for months, in early COVID, nobody in the world was using corticosteroids. And once it was, once became the standard of care overnight, I heard some, I was hearing from all of that network. So your question is, what do they think of me now? I don't know. Because almost nobody reaches out to me anymore. I have a couple of old trainees that were with me from my early career. Couple of them have quietly from the side been like very supportive, like you getting this you getting this right, man, appreciate it. And then they will tell me like, things are starting to change on the inside. They're telling me some of the doctors are really starting to question the stuff. You know, the stuff that we've been questioning from the beginning, like, I think things are changing on the inside, but I don't really know, I do know that my phone doesn't ring and I don't get a lot of emails anymore.

Dr. Paul  27:23  
Yeah. So if a really critically ill, let's just say COVID patient happens to end up in that hospital that used to teach in? What's their care, like, these days? It hasn't changed at all in the last two years.

Pierre Kory, MD  27:38  
I don't know specifically, but I can pretty much tell you it's it's in the whole country. Here's the other thing that changed from 2020 to now, right. So that error that I was talking about, were like, hey, maybe we should do this, maybe should do that. You know, once I resigned from UW, I became an Emergency Volunteer in New York City, which was getting hammered. So I went back to New York to my old hospital. And I that was really a really challenging time. But I was allowed to use whatever I want to use. Nobody was messing with me. I was using corticosteroids. I was using blood thinners. You know, like, I could use whatever doses I was pulsing people I was doing whatever I could to keep these patients alive. And that was that was early. Now. There's no There's no doctrine like that. And while I'm there sticking rigidly to their evidence based protocols, you talking about remdesivir We still live in a country where you have the infusion of resistant remdesivir to every hospitalized patients arm, you have this anemic dose of dexamethasone that they're using, and they're not using much else that, you know, maybe they're using like Tocilizumab, one of those, you know, cytokine blockers, you know, they'll throw in, but I don't think they're doing anything else. Beyond I haven't heard of anything else beyond that. And there's so many medicines that we now know work so well. So here's my point on that little pause. In my career. I have never ever been told I couldn't use a medicine with maybe one extension IV Tylenol because of its cost in the hospital. It's so absurdly expensive. You know, they've restricted that. So if you ever wanted to give IV Tylenol, you have to call someone for like specific permission, but that was a cost thing. But no one's ever told me like I couldn't use this or that and sepsis like I could, I was using an IV vitamin C based on a lot of data, you know, and I was somewhat unique in doing that very unique. But now, what I found COVID I mean, not only do they restrict, I mean outpatient hospital systems will not let an outpatient doctor prescribe ivermectin, they take it off the formalise in the hospital. So it's like we're in a different world now. Like the way I I'm hearing about what's going on with hospitals. Those are rigid protocols that you must adhere to and must not stray from. And that's not the medicine that I knew or left a medicine to physicians had autonomy, you use your best judgment, risk benefit and alternative analysis, you know, one of the principles, so I have these two guideposts that I would teach my doctors that I was teaching is the two things that I bring to the ICU. If, if what you're doing is working, just keep doing what you're doing, right, which is like, don't change, you know, if the patient is on a positive trajectory, don't don't do anything, you don't have to do CAT scans or new tests or try new therapies, just keep going. Because generally, if someone's on a positive trajectory, they will continue in that way, as long as you keep doing doing, but if what you're doing is not work, you got to change what you're doing. And I was constantly teaching that. And what I hear from so many distressed people around the country family members is, they'll tell me about a family member in a hospital who's clearly deteriorating, you know, 100%, even despite that, dexamethasone, remdesivir, whatever, they're literally deteriorating, and the doctors aren't like, trying to get more aggressive trial, their new medicines, because again, when you're dealing with someone who's like imminently dying, the risk benefit, alternative approaches are much different. But they're not changing according to that clinical situation scenario, because they don't want to, they don't want to depart from the protocol. And that's not a medicine, I want to practice. And that's not a system I want to be and I will never go back, I will never go back.

Dr. Paul  31:25  
Is it? Is it true that the hospitals have been incentivized financially, if they have a COVID positive patient, that's more money. If they intubate that's more money, if the patient dies, that's more money.

Pierre Kory, MD  31:36  
There are financial incentives screaming from so much if you want to look at how the system behave, you just have to look at as the system is designed, and I mean, right? Well, I can't remember what that adage is, right? Like, a system will get the results for which it's designed for every user. And they will bake legislation. And so yeah, there's an incentive to code people as COVID deaths more money. You give remdesivir, you get a 20 cent 20% Bonus, on the on the entire hospital bill, right for using EUA approved medicines. You know, the ventilator part that's always been there, like, hospitals have always gotten more money for some really hands on event. But there's reasons for that, because the costs of caring for ventilated patient are just so large. But I think there's an even even more added on bonus if you care for ventilated patient with COVID. You know, so there are tons of incentives and they don't lead to good medicine.

Dr. Paul  32:35  
No. So would you agree the goal for a loved one is do it ever you possibly can to stay out of the hospital

Pierre Kory, MD  32:44  
100% I mean, my dream since and, you know, let me go back to like, you know, when COVID started, and around the time that I resigned my first position, we started to form the FLCC, you know, a couple of people, prominent doctors reached out to Paul Merrick, you know, caught my co founder, and you know, he and I lead the organization. And he's a famous guy. I mean, he's literally the most published intensivist in the history of our field, who's practicing, the guy who has more papers than him actually doesn't see patients. So I consider him the most published practicing intensivist in in our history. And he's very well known for his protocols for sepsis and whatnot. So people reached out to him early on, said, You know, you got to do something here, there's no treatment protocols, there's nothing. And so we got together, reading everything, talking to doctors everywhere, you know, from China to Italy, you know, to different you know, I've all of my old colleagues and friends, we're running ICUs in New York City, and we put together an early prototype that was a hospital protocol. And we got some prominence from that. We didn't have an early treatment protocol until the fall, when we discovered the efficacy of ivermectin. And, you know, my dream since that time is that every family every cupboard in America has an early treatment kit in there. And with a combination of medicines, you treat it early upon first symptoms like you're supposed to do with any viral syndrome. And we would avoid hospitalizations and almost all we wouldn't we wouldn't have this fear we wouldn't have this emergency. I mean, that's that's been my dream is that early treatment is recognized with effective safe drugs. I'm not talking about PAC slowly. That's another corruption and mono pure was even worse corruption.

Dr. Paul  34:36  
So the early treatments that the FLCC came up with I remember math plus was the first thing I became aware of. And of course, you continue to evolve what you're offering. How can people so you're like one of the world leaders on ivermectin, maybe you can speak briefly about that. But then, how can people get access to ivermectin for one which is very difficult? In some states, but then also to this kit that you feel like we all should have, because I agree with you. If you are prepared, there may be a another pandemic that comes our way. And maybe you can speak to that as well.

Pierre Kory, MD  35:14  
Yeah. So in terms of, shall we have our protocol. And I want to be clear, like, I don't think that's the only protocol that works. I've seen lots of different protocols, they all work. I mean, if you go to this website called C 19 early.com, C, one nine URL, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's this phenomenal resource of real time ongoing, comprehensive meta analyses on all sorts of therapeutics for COVID. think there were up to 43 compounds or therapeutics that are effective in different phases of COVID. So you have this whole host of things that work as antivirals and anti inflammatories, right. And whatever combination you choose, you can come up with different protocols. So my answer your question, so if you go to so let me be clear, I have a nonprofit, which is the frontline COVID-19 Critical Care lines, I also have a private practice because I left the system. And I actually went into private practice because I wanted to become expert in the treatment of longhaul COVID and vaccine injury. And we also do treatment kit planning as well as treatment of acute COVID. So it's very COVID specialty practice. So that's Dr. Pierre quarry.com. And so that's one resource. But if you go to the nonprofit, we have a list of practitioners generally, telehealth who do early treatment, and we don't vet them or anything. I think a lot of them kind of follow the FLCC protocol, but with little changes, you know, they might do one thing they might put in an antibiotic like doxycycline and I'm fine with all of it. But I would say that's a good resource to find practitioners who will prescribe an early treatment kit and then how to get ivermectin you know, that war on ivermectin. I mean, they, I wouldn't say they want it. I think they fought it to a stalemate I, it's my belief that people or practitioners who haven't used ivermectin yet won't start. But those of us who know that it works and have been using it the whole time, the pandemic, we're gonna keep going. The only thing that keeps us going is compounding pharmacies. And I will tell you, in general, that ecosystem of pharmacies has been very supportive, because they've always been kind of, you know, a little bit outside the system, you know, supporting nature of paths, and integrative and functional with kind of non, you know, approved therapies that are very effective. And so, I think they've always had like that kind of, almost like underdog or like, you know, different perspective. I don't use retail pharmacies anymore. I just use compounding and I've been working with a couple that have just been so great. So supportive. And so you can get them from compounding pharmacies, I would say the majority will fill for COVID. Retail is closed. I mean, the the agency scared the hell out all the pharmacists and all the doctors, all the health systems have scared the doctors, none of them can prescribe. And so. So that's one resource. And then, not that I'm promoting this, but I mean, many people have been able to buy ivermectin from for instance, India, right. They have a whole industry, have they sell medicines? And I think they've worked very well. So I mean, there are a few resources. And yeah, we won't talk about animal formulations.

Dr. Paul  38:32  
And those other resources, are those available in your book or on your website? As far

Pierre Kory, MD  38:38  
as the website? Yeah, no, the book doesn't deal with like those kind of specific. It's not about medical guidance. I'm really, the book is, it's not done yet. But yeah, it really goes over the war and ivermectin. And it's also really kind of like a personal and like FLCC history, I'll give you a little insight, like my substack is going to be a lot of my book, but the books can be still quite different, but it's gonna be a little bit less than the sub stacks. But if you've been reading my substack, you'll you already know, tons. But some of the personal history of how we came to be and where we came from is going to be different. But you know, the one thing I want to point out, because I've said this before, because it's really important. You know, after I testified on ivermectin in December of 2020. As you probably know, you know, I was pretty passionate during that testimony, and it went viral. Right. And so became this kind of really interesting thing, right? Suddenly, not and this isn't about ego or fame, but it went viral. And suddenly everybody was talking about ivermectin like there's this doctor. hear you saying that? It works. He's got all these studies. There's nothing out of house and so suddenly, you saw this lot of attention on ivermectin. And, you know, then I had my A comprehensive review paper which just had overwhelming data shown how effective Iver mechanism COVID. And, and I felt like after that testimony went viral our paper compiled all of the evidence to support it. I thought like, it would be warmly received by society and like governments, and people would like, widely recommend and deployed in prevention and treatment. And what happened next, I just couldn't figure out what was going on. Because like I did an interview with the Associated Press within days of that testimony. And it was a hit job. Like they literally 20 minutes to answer every question, provide them tons of data. And they don't even mention that. And they just say ivermectin, is not a miracle drug. And they don't even really talk about it. All they say is that it's the latest hydroxychloroquine. So, so here, I am, like, wait a second, I just interviewed with the Associated Press, one of the oldest and most powerful news agencies in the world. And I'm looking at this article. What is going on? And how could they write this, we actually filed an ethics complaint against the social, this is how naive we were at the time. But my point is this is that that kept happening, you know, then my paper passes peer review at a prominent journal, three rounds of peer review for different scientists, three of them senior scientists in the FDA in the NIH, and the journal won't publish. And then they sat on our paper for so long, I wrote an email one day I said, I suspect scientific misconduct. There's no credible reason why you're not publishing this paper that's been peer reviewed. And then the chief editor basically has a meeting with my editor and says we're retracting the paper, because we found an anonymous third party reviewer who feels your conclusions don't match your results. So now like now, I'm starting to understand that we're up against something big and not very friendly. But what changed my life was in early March of 20 2001, so three months after that testimony, and the hit jobs and the censorship and all these attacks, this researcher from Australia, his name is Professor will you have you heard me tell the story before this guy, Professor William B. Grant, who I think he's around 80. And he's a long time like world expert in vitamin D. And the uses of vitamin D, you know, in prevention of disease, treatment of disease. And it was a two line email. And all it said was Dr. Corey, what they're doing to vitamin D. I mean, to ivermectin they've been doing to vitamin D for decades. And then he included a link to an article, which is called the disinformation playbook. And I'm like, What is this click on the link, and it's this not long article, very simple conceptual article written by the union for concern scientists. It's on their website. It's actually Google. And I read it, and it spells out these five tactics that industries use when science emerges that's inconvenient to their interests. And so and it's called the disinformation playbook, because each tactic is named after a football playing like what is called the Blitz, where they harass researchers. One is called the fake screen. I can't remember the other two, but each play, I'm reading I'm like, wait, doing that, this, doing that. And like it was like a click. Suddenly, I got a title of suddenly the world made sense to me. Like I couldn't figure out who's doing what and why they were doing it. And suddenly, everything that I'd been living through for three months was explained in that little article, every single crazy thing that I saw being done to ivermectin was right in that little article. And, and that's kind of like when not only did things start to make sense, but I understood I was in a war, meaning that there were people that wanted to destroy ivermectin and as a physician, knowing that it's super safe, highly effective, people are dying from a disease around the world. Now, I realized what not my new job, but I was assigned the role that I got to keep going here because as a physician, Paul, what are you going to do there? Say, Oh, this is too much. And I'm gonna keep quiet now and let people die and not know that there's an effective medicine out there no way. And also, we had an organization that was devoted to it. So we knew we had a mission and we're going to do ours, they're going to do theirs and see where we end up. I think we've saved a few people. And that's an understatement. When we are protocols around the world lot of a good portion of the world knows ivermectin is the fact that there are many countries that use it, and not not the United States and pharma. Yep.

Dr. Paul  44:48  
So, you've outlined pretty clearly what also became really evident to me, our sick care system, what we like to call health care, but it's really sick care. It's so broken because it's tied in with the journals that aren't publishing the real science. It's all a captured system. I don't think it's fixable, do you?

Pierre Kory, MD  45:13  
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's definitely not fixed. But I thought that for a while, well, if we just completely take down NIH, CDC and FDA and restructure it, no, because that's still controlled by corporations, like the government, unfortunately, I've learned is, is literally control the corporations, they have immense amount of power from legislators onwards. So I don't think you can build a system, which is a wash and so much money and think that a positive, you know, patient, primary centered, you know, focus will come out of that system, you're going to see other influences and objectives. So yeah, I like that point. I don't think it's fixable. The other the other notion that we see tossed around and we I don't want to say we give lip service to I just don't know what it's gonna look like we talk about parallel systems. Now. I think we already kind of have one, you know, like, if you, you know, alternative practitioners used to be a four letter word for me, right? That was a good, well trained system doctor, right? You know, and you hear about people using hyperbaric oxygen and all sorts of other things. Like, that's all nonsense, because if it worked, and it made sense, it would be in the journalist, Paul, but he would be doing it, wouldn't we be in the journalists, and they don't teach us that. And we are the white coats, where the smartest we have the most research and most knowledge, if we're not using it, it must not work. What I've found is now that I'm outside of the system, and I have a private practice that is fee based, I'm learning so many different therapeutics and mechanisms that you've never heard about that are wildly effective. And so I'm using what would be termed alternative therapies. Now, they're not alternative. They're completely scientifically sound, therapeutically robust and potent, but you'd never be able to use it on the inside. And so I do believe that, you know, the problem is that I'm fee based, right? I don't, I can't take insurance, right. Not doing what I do, or churches not gonna pay for half the study. So the shame is because I've always worked kind of in the inner city, is that I'm not seeing poor patients. We do see some pro Bono's, but it's unfortunately, it's not a system for all, but at least it's the beginnings of warmth. And I don't I don't know how to build that out for everybody. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  47:31  
that is the biggest challenge, because so many of us who have a conscience, who won't turn a blind eye, when we know, we know what's really going on. We want to help everyone. I mean, that's, that's at our core. Yeah. And yet, people are stuck in the insurance model. You can't use insurance for alternative things.

Pierre Kory, MD  47:54  
No, and that insurance controls what you can and can't use, and, and even the stuff that you can use, they're pretty stingy about that. Right? Right. Even like auto approved evidence based medicine, they make you go through all these administrative bureaucratic hoops to try to get it for your patients, right. And so as if doctors have all the time in the world to like argue with insurance companies, they make us do that. So, so anyway, I do think, you know, this discussion of like a parallel system. And that's why I gotta say, we are in a good place compared to other countries is that like, we do have a system of compounding pharmacies, for now. You know, we do have the ability to see patients privately in some countries, you can't. And so at least we have some freedoms left and medicine. But, you know, learning some about the history of some of these doctors, like those who know the chronic Lyme is the thing and treat chronic Lyme. They've had a rough time of it. I mean, they've got, you know, some have lost their license. I mean, the system will not let us in peace out here. In the US what I'm really worried about as as we get more success, and or maybe more popular, because, well, I'm sure you hear the say you came to our conference, how many people the lay people there, the first thing they come to when they talked with Dr. Quarry, where can I go for care? I'm terrified of the hospital. I don't want to go back to my doctor, my PCP is pushing this vaccine. I mean, they know how toxic those vaccines are. So would you go to someone who's literally pushing a toxic intervention on you, but now you're going to trust them for their other guidance? The people are terrified. But if you get more popular and their moves more into that space, they're not going to leave us in peace. Right, Paul? They're gonna start coming after us.

Dr. Paul  49:36  
And therein lies the problem. How about as we get close to winding down public health, that term used to mean for me Oh, these are the best people who want the best health for our entire population and watching them, not just mismanaged but absolutely it appears to the fact that they're all just spreading misinformation and discernment lying to the public and harming. They're lying and harming us. And yet we've given them so much power that actually, you know, the head of public health in a given state probably has more power, it seems like than the President of the United States. Sure. What do we do with that?

Pierre Kory, MD  50:22  
Here's sort of the private knowledge is those of us now understand and can see the system for what it is, which is the way we would look at public health. There's no more Halo or hagiography of like over last century, where you saw really literally public health campaigns that really had the intent of trying to eradicate control disease, promote the health of the population, now, especially in COVID, that they're not interested in public health, it's literally they're using those public agencies as levers to promote a market for their wares. And, and those agents are now working for an industry that has a documented criminal industry, right? well documented criminal industry and the criminal fines and civil fines that they paid for doing things for suppressing adverse event data, the deaths they've caused. I mean, so now you have a criminal industry that's running public health. So how do you solve that? I think you have to start with what I talked about before, is where I started, I had an implicit faith and trust into the institutions of medicine in the beginning, and now I don't, I can see them for what they are. I know, they're not scientific. And I know they're captured. So the best thing for my health, Paul, is to not listen to them, be very skeptical of everything they're doing. Assume that whatever policy admits from there, it's not about your health, it's about something else. And so if we can get that to be a common knowledge, I think that removes the power. I think that removes the power. And it doesn't make us complicit in our own demise. So for instance, that campaign that they whipped up in society to globally vaccinate the world with I'm sorry, but it's the most toxic and lethal medical intervention known to man, the data to support that is overwhelming. It's causing excess mortality throughout the world amongst young people who are working. If you don't know that they're doing that, if you trust them, you're putting yourself in danger by listening to them. And so I hate having to talk such dark concepts, which is literally trying to tell people, you need to temper your faith that these institutions are working for you. Because if you do that, you're going to be led far astray, you're going to be led to five toxic boosters, and a horrific either death and or disability, which is all that I see. So but But then what happens. I don't know what the second step is. But the first is, I want people to know that this is an information war, and they need to know where their sources of good information are. And here, here's my, here's my criteria for a good source of information. You want to listen to someone who first and foremost the most overwhelming quality they must have in order to for you to even have any semblance of faith, they have to be free of conflict, conflicts of interests, which is almost impossible from the system. Because if you're a professor at an academic medical center, you have a conflict of interest, there are things you can't say or do careers over. You can't work for a pharmaceutical company be a CEO of one, which I think is one of the most absurd things that happened. And then suddenly, we have our major newspapers like Borla opens his mouth, and it's a headline, boiler. Thanks this we should get a booster for the fall. And I'm like, since when do we listen to the info? Right? But so you want someone who's conflict of interest free, which is very hard to do. You want them to be expert in their field. You want them to be fully transparent with their data and be willing to debate it and to use a variety of sources of data. And I will say that I will the fifth one is not necessary, but they have to be willing to sacrifice their position to it's unfortunate that you have to do that but I don't think you have to be willing because by definition if you meet those first four Yeah, it's almost like that's an added bonus. But you know, the conflicts of interest with everybody you know, there's a lot of self censoring, you know, pull the you know, What scares me is that, that, you know, cohort I talked about that private knowledge, my network, I think inside the system, there's a not insignificant growing number of doctors who know that they're not they're working in a very fraudulent crop system

Dr. Paul  54:52  
who they don't know how to get out, but they also

Pierre Kory, MD  54:55  
don't want to get out and they don't. They've seen what happens to people who do try to call that out. I mean, your career is done. You're done. And so

Dr. Paul  55:07  
if you're I would add to your list, even though it's not a critical requirement, but humility. Yeah, you bring such a wonderful combination of courage, knowledge, humility, and expertise, that that without all of those things, you're absolutely right. It's, it's hard to even make a dent. I know you're coming up on your deadline, and we need to wrap it up, maybe just give you the final word, what would be be your closing message to the world? You know.

Pierre Kory, MD  55:45  
I mean, I would, I would say COVID specific message. This is a treatable disease period, highly treatable, many effective therapies, that would be one I like, I'll go back to that central point, get a treatment kit ready for you, your family, we need to have agency in our lives, I want people to realize that you can't rely on the agencies, you need to gain agency over your own health in life. And that going forward, we need to develop trusted sources from a parallel system without conflicts of interest that can give us good guidance on how to keep ourselves healthy and thriving. And we haven't been healthy. And we haven't thrived in three years, either. Physically, medically, socially, politically. I mean, it's been a really very dark, few years. But my hopes are that we've been through a lot of suffering. Hopefully, a lot of us have undergone growth, intellectual, spiritual, right. And I think, you know, I do think things happen in cycles, and things get better. And I am, I am hopeful that the amount of people can learn the lessons I learned through my three years experience here will grow. And I think that'll make us healthier, we need to have a diet of good information, that sound and then that's well intentioned, I mean, the propaganda and censorship has to let you know, I don't want to end on a negative thing. But the way in which I viewed the last three years is that the world has gone mad, not their fault. It's through this unrelenting propaganda and censorship. And I think if we can view that I think we can neuter it and we can, you know, take away the power of all the destruction that the propaganda and censorship is having. And then we can have real open discussions we can learn from each other, we can debate things we can talk about, you know, vitamin D different, you know, elderberry its use in RSV or flu like we can have, like good conversations about real topics, that means something to us that you know, have an impact on our health, and I hope those conversations gonna happen. I hope society wakes up. I hope the private knowledge that I've gained very uncomfortable again, becomes common knowledge. I think it's healthy. So

Dr. Paul  57:55  
fear, anyway. Yeah, hopefully. I'm gonna let you go. You are a blessing to the world. I appreciate you so much.

Pierre Kory, MD  58:03  
Great to talk to you. Take care.

Dr. Paul  58:10  
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Pol and against the wind doctors and science under fire. This show is slightly different. I'm being interviewed. I'm going to cover the topics of RSV, influenza and COVID. What's going on? What do you need to know? And how can you be prepared for this upcoming winter, we're all three are hitting it once Bernadette closes us out with a very interesting take on the mindset of those in public health. They minimize vaccine dangers. They promote vaccine efficacy, and they maximize disease risk, completely distorting the actual information that's out there. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I'm going to talk to you about gratitude today. And first and foremost, I am grateful for you. Your support means the world to me, I'm going to share a card I got from a patient recently that just exemplifies the importance of this to meet Dr. Thomas, I want you to know how much our family appreciates you. Thank you for caring deeply for the health and well being of all the families who have been under your care. Thank you for being bold, and for shining a light in this dark world. I am so sorry for the disappointment, pushback, hatred and heartbreak that you've had to go through. But I praise God for how he is using you to stand up for truth. I can only imagine how hard in every way it is to do this. So my prayer for you is that you will remain and God's steadfast love, His love and promises that will never shake or crumble. No matter what enemy you are facing. That you will seek His wisdom and take pause to hear his voice. I pray that God will protect you and your family fiercely give you courage to do what he is asking and be filled with great joy. Thank you, Dr. Thomas. And they share their names. Who that touches me. And I have to tell you, this is one of probably hundreds, if not 1000 Such cards and letters and sentiments. And it's kept me going through these difficult times. And I am so grateful for all of you who support me. It gives me that steadfast, we're together. We're never giving up because we are being called to do something magnificent that our world is calling us to do. So thank you

welcome folks against the wind. Didi Hoover joins me in studio. What the heck are you doing here?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  2:43  
Well, I am here because I'm the one as you know, that gets all the emails. And I have to tell everyone, first of all, this is our second time doing this. And you did a very good job the first time, I thought you did a good job of you. Thank you. So we get a lot of support. And I wanted to say that you have so much love and so much support coming in. And I know i i holler from one office to the other to you about that support. We also get a lot of questions. And right now, there's a huge amount of questions about this triple Dimick, this triple pandemic that's going on right now. And that is RSV, flu, and COVID a huge hit right now. So I just want to ask you some questions. And the first thing I want to talk about is RSV. So I would like to to explain what that is. And tell me about because we've been getting a ton of patients in and I think we've had one in our clinic here, even hospitalized this year. So I'd like for you to talk a little bit about RSV. People keep asking some of the questions about RSV are, you know, what do I need to look for? When do I need to see a doctor? And do the main one is you're talking about it is if they get a vaccine, should I run out and get this vaccine?

Dr. Paul  3:54  
Thank you for that question. I'm going to start with the last thing you mentioned. If they come up with an RSV vaccine, should you run out and get it? No. Here's why. They are trying to make an RSV vaccine on the mRNA platform, folks, they've been trying to do this for two decades. And they failed because of the nature of mRNA platform. It's just not been possible to make it work for viruses that mutate very quickly. That's why it failed for COVID it will fail for RSV for the same reason it has failed. They have this thing called immune enhancement that happens with that form of vaccination. And in the early trials they did for RSV they would vaccinate the animals right in the animal trials be it rats or ferrets or whatever. And it would look like the vaccine was okay safety wise. And then when those animals were re exposed with RSP a large percentage in some trials, all of them died. And it's a complicated topic that I've covered on another show. Dr. Ryan Cole covers it very nicely so check that out to review Do it. But this is not a virus that is going to be immune. It's you can't make a vaccine on an mRNA platform for RSV. At least not at this time, the technology is not ready, it got rushed for COVID. They're trying to rush it again for RSV. Don't let your kid or actually they're trying to do this for pregnant women. There's nothing worse than thinking about causing immune activation during pregnancy. We have studies showing that any kind of infection, viral infections in particular during pregnancy can cause problems with brain development. Why on this good green earth, would you intentionally activate the immune system while you're pregnant? It makes zero sense. So that was the long answer, which was the short answer was no. But I wanted to explain there's some real science behind why it's not a good idea.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  5:46  
No, thank you for answering that. But back to what So explain RSV, first of all, simply so that people understand that don't know what it is. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  5:53  
respiratory syncytial virus is that is what it stands for, is basically a cold. It's a virus that causes cold like symptoms, but it's a specifically Muco genic, which just means it makes you all mucousy. More so than I think other colds. And if you think about the size of airways, adults in the large children have a big trachea, big bronchioles, even their little or tubes are big enough that if they get a little mucousy, they they can handle it. But if it a little baby gets RSV, especially the preemies, they're the ones that have a terrible time because there's enough mucus to actually block airways, and so their oxygenation can dip significantly and potentially be dangerous. I don't want you to be scared of RSV, folks. I mean, if you have a extreme preemie, or a preemie, or newborn with significant heart or lung issues, yeah, stay away from it. Anybody that's sick. You know, it may not just be RSV, but influenza COVID, the whole list. And there's a long list of viruses, some bacteria that can cause lung infections, you don't want any of that if you are that vulnerable. And that's where you'll get a number of deaths every year from RSV. And it almost always ends up being people who have underlying high high risk those extreme preemies. People with heart lung problems. But yeah, RSV, I've known this since I was a pediatrician. 35 years ago, every winter, we see RSV, and rarely does anybody end up in the hospital. And really, you go to the hospital for one of two reasons. Either you can't drink anymore, you're so congested. You go to a nurse or take a bottle and your nose is plugged, it's congested. Now you plug in the mouth, they can't breathe. So they're just shoving gasping for air. So you go for IV hydration, or you go because you need oxygen, and actually had this great family in my practice from Italy. And they said, No respectfully Italian, I wish I could have done it in her accent. It leaves home without a pulse oximeter. This is the most important little tool you should all have at home. It works like this. Say it again. What is it, it's a pulse oximeter. It measures the oximeter blood just reads the oxygen in your blood. It can be hard to use on a newborn or a tiny infant, but you just push the start button, stick your finger in there on the red flashing light and hold still, and you start it starts to count the heartbeat boom. You have a 97 heartbeat, or no 9084 Well, you're relaxing. You're a little tense here to begin with, as I was but your actions 96 And that's not bad. normals, 97 to 100 I always knew you weren't normal.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  8:38  
Well, and I mean, it's I know that well. We're talking about RSV and everything I one of my questions is you've talked about it and children but I know with us being so exposed you were sick last week and I was is RSV something that affects adults, because I know everything you've been describing, I've been feeling and I know you've felt so.

Dr. Paul  8:57  
So yes, RSV will affect adults, but generally it's just a cold, okay, it could be a bad cold and RSV tends to last a little longer than most colds, your typical viral illness be at a cold or whatever the flu lasts for seven to 10 days. RSV peeks around day four to seven, and lasts for two to four weeks. And so I can't tell you how many patients I saw just this week, who had their kids have been sick for 1012 days, couple of them two, three weeks, and they're like frustrated to go do something. Well, that might just be the normal course of RSV or it could be you're absolutely right we are seeing more RSV, more COVID Well, definitely more influenza A and B actually all a so far in my practice in the last year interviewing me the day before I end my clinical practice in Oregon so I can speak as a clinician right now. We're just doing this interview a little early before we take a trip to speak but what I've been seeing in the clinic The last two three weeks, a huge number of positives for influenza A still getting positive COVID tests and plenty of RSV positive, it is actually happening. As they're saying on the news, I don't think it's nearly as scary as they make it out to be. Our news loves to be dramatic itself. But I'm not trying to minimize the fact that RSV and a preemie or an a very young infant who has heart conditions, you don't want that. But you don't need to be afraid of it. If you get adequate volumes of nutrition. So if you're a mama at home, breastfeeding, for example, you feed as much as you can, you tank that baby up as much as you possibly can, because that will keep them out of the hospital, right? Because they're hydrated enough, they're having enough wet diapers. Also, being able to get enough oxygen so that you don't have as much control over but you can certainly test it showed you the pulse ox that's something you can get on, you know, any pharmacy or online stores and have it at home to us. So you know, when you need to go to the hospital. If your baby is having a pulse ox close to 90, say 9192 or less. You should go be seen if you're if your doctor's office handles those sorts of things, as far as does go see your doctor, but oftentimes they don't you have to go to the hospital and just it may be that you need oxygen.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  11:19  
Okay. So with all of those things, it's November, did you know that

Dr. Paul  11:26  
it's almost the end of November?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  11:28  
So I don't remember seeing everything like this this soon. Can you speak to that? Because I know you've made a comment that normally it's December or January, I think when time you said owed peak is January, right? It's November.

Dr. Paul  11:40  
And in fact, it felt like we were peeking in early to mid November. And in some parts of the country. That's what happened. I saw a recent chart, I believe it was from the CDC, that went over the last many years of RSV influenza, and of course COVID. And what they showed was back in, up until 2019, we had a winter peak that was around December, January have RSV, influenza, and then it goes down by April or May it's gone. Every year you had that same peak 2021. No, RSV, no influenza, like, none. What, Where did it go, we're seeing anything, we weren't seeing anything. People weren't going to the hospital, they weren't going to their doctor's office, we were on lockdown for COVID. And the only testing that was being done for the most part was for COVID. And I remember we kept our office open the whole time. And I remember thinking what the heck Have they forgotten that there's a list of about 30 things that can cause fever, headaches, body aches, cough, but no, it was just COVID or otherwise. But they were tracking the data as we went started opening up. And you see this steady rise in RSV and influenza, not the spikes, like 2021. That winter, not the one we're entering. But the one before it was just a slow, steady rise, no peak. And I think that's just as as we saw more and more kids and kids were allowed to be together in schools, you start sharing these germs. But it's been a very abnormal sort of pattern. And I think it's just a function of one the quarantine and two. When you haven't been sick for two, three years and you haven't been mingling, you have two three years of babies being born for one thing whose immune systems have not been exercised at all. Right? So there, I mean, we used to see this with measles before the measles and chickenpox before the vaccines were introduced, especially measles every two, three years would be a big ol outbreak. And that's two or three years worth of newborns, who are up to now two or three years old, we've never had measles goes through the community. Now the immunity is good. And nothing for another two, three years. So we have those seasonal spikes. I don't know if that helps at all, but it's definitely

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  13:56  
different. And so that brings us to your child gets RSV you've told us what to look for. So let's talk fever though because that seems to be a big one. I've will even get emails on what fever and I always wonder I may not see the email for one or two days and I'm like, oh gosh, your child. Why are you why are you sending an email? So talk about fever. Okay, and in children in general, but even especially like right now RSV is affecting a lot of babies in our clinic. And people don't know when to go to the hospital.

Dr. Paul  14:25  
Yeah. You go to the hospital if you need fluids or oxygen, right. Or if you're close to needing it, you're unsure. If you have a good clinic where you can go to and they can assess oxygen, they can assess hydration. Go to your regular doctor before you end up with the ER ers or slash sickest kids fever on the other hand, thank you for bringing that to our attention. Fever is your friend. Fever at? Yup, fever helps your body knock out the virus we've been taught to be afraid of feet Ever. And it's it's the wrong teaching.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  15:02  
So do you think part of that fear comes because we hear? I mean, as a mom when my son was younger, I heard that if your child gets a, I think I heard 104 105 Fever, that fever can kill them. I heard that.

Dr. Paul  15:15  
Yeah. No, not at 104 or five. I think if you get 206, seven, you're in trouble. That's, that's even a thing. I have not seen it, honestly. Okay, so

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  15:27  
So let's talk about that 103 205 fever that we're seeing right now. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  15:31  
at 104 to five, your child will probably be delirious. And they're so out of it that you don't know if they've got meningitis, which is super rare, by the way. Or they've got a serious infection, right? That's making them just, yeah, not even be able to be responsive. So when it's that high, and they're delirious or not responding, well, you have to get it down as a diagnostic tool to see whether or not are they just delirious because they have a really high fever? If that's all in there, okay. So there's a really cool way of getting the fever down. How cool is it? Good, good. Oh, no pun intended, no pun intended. Well, you get a wet rag, or washcloth and you get it fairly damp. I mean, not dripping wet, but really moist. It could be slightly warm, because cold will shock the child, and you just pat all over their body and let that water evaporate. And it's called latent heat of evaporation. It just brings the fever down. And you can bring a fever down in five to 10 minutes. Like from 104 to 101. Like any age networks, probably haven't tried it on at all. They probably probably but

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  16:46  
it's usually an older child like

Dr. Paul  16:48  
I mean, you got more body surface area, the older they are, although,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  16:51  
can you put them in a bath because I've heard you can put a child and be alert,

Dr. Paul  16:55  
lukewarm to coolish bath that would probably do the same thing. But I think allowing that evaporation is what really works. Wow. Also, the the counter to that is if mom has a fever and she's breastfeeding and she's got skin to skin with their baby but she's hot. Baby can get hot. Right? And we've had that happen. Their baby feels hot, they don't really forget that they're a bit warm too, right? And they take take the baby's temp and if they're less than six, eight weeks old and they have over 101.4 You got to go to the hospital. So it's like you just create a situation you get there and they take the time it's normal. Well it was up because of skin to skin that happens right after birth to right if mom gets a fever from the work of labor, you can get pretty warm. Babies born with a fever but within an hour or two, it's normal. I digressed. What were we talking about fevers don't be afraid of it folks. Also you can get it down with like I said the the pat dry I am not a fan of acetaminophen that's brand name is Tylenol. What Tylenol acetaminophen does is it blocks your and acetyl cysteine NAC and N acetyl. Cysteine is the precursor sorry, it blocks glutathione glutathione is your major molecule for not only fighting the infection as a major antioxidant, but also for detoxifying. So when you block that pathway from an acetylcysteine NAC to glutathione with the acetaminophen, you're actually making your child or your patient more at risk for the infection. Which that makes no sense, right? So if if it's safe to use ibuprofen, if you have to use anything you would use that. It's not supposed to be used under six months of age. But if you got under six months of age, just do the pet thing anyway. Yeah.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  18:38  
So I'm gonna have you because you said it quite quickly. And I think it's really important. Please explain again, why Tylenol is dangerous to give your child to bring a fever down.

Dr. Paul  18:49  
So Tylenol, which is acetaminophen has a very narrow therapeutic window. And what that means is you need this much for it to work. But if you have this much, it's toxic, right? So it's very easy to get toxic. If you happen to be dehydrated, you can be toxic at these normal doses. And what are you when you're sick, you tend to be dehydrated. So it's it's really not a good thing to be giving at all. Probably shouldn't be over the counter. I think if they tried to bring that to market today, it would not make it it would have to be a prescription drug because of that risky nature of that narrow window, therapeutic window. In your body. We have all these metabolic pathways every cell can make glutathione which is a major antioxidant,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  19:36  
okay, major antioxidant in the house, something your body needs, your body

Dr. Paul  19:39  
needs that to fight infection. Okay, you've heard of vitamin C being helpful, especially when you're sick. That's an antioxidant. Glutathione and vitamin C are kind of working together. Okay, this one of them. It really does affect your ability to fight infection. So

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  19:54  
if those two things are helping fight infection, and you give something like acetaminophen and it blocks that That's, that's why it's not necessarily helpful. And again, if it reaches a top level, right, I just wanted to go through that slowly because I that's another question that I get asked constantly. Well, I've heard Doctor policy, you know, not to do acetaminophen or but yet every other doctor says, Give your baby tylenol to bring down a fever. So first thing

Dr. Paul  20:18  
they say it makes no sense. Okay. So I think if you have acetaminophen in your house, throw it away. Not not in the landfills. So hard. What do you what do you do with all these pharmaceuticals that you don't need? I know how to put them in the rivers and streams. I don't know if you want to bury them, because then they're going to end up there. So conundrum there are places to dispense IV meds safely, right? Yeah.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  20:38  
Okay. So these kids have cold viruses, no matter what it is, and they're sick. When a child and this is something that when I was responding back with somebody through emails, and explained, again, not giving any advice or anything, but explaining why you, you wouldn't say not to use acetaminophen, they said What's difficult is IV, the ibuprofen doesn't work as quickly. And then there'll be the child will be kind of, you know, doesn't look like they feel good. There'll be lethargic, kind of because of the fever. Isn't that okay? I think we get as parents we get concerned, I don't want my child to look sick. I don't want my child to be sick. But isn't the point is the ibuprofen will help that fever from becoming dangerous, but the body needs to fight the infection in order to get rid of it.

Dr. Paul  21:25  
So your this goes back to fevers your friend, okay? We're not anti fever. So okay, you know, as long as it's below 104, let's just use that as our cutoff, which is 40 degrees centigrade, 104 Fahrenheit, and your child is not lethargic and out of it. Right. If they're lethargic and out of it, you need to get that fever down, right to make sure they're in there, that they're okay. Right, that's

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  21:49  
when they give Tylenol, or I'm sorry, Sita monofin. That's when parents feel like they need

Dr. Paul  21:54  
to because they can't get it, get it down, right, sponge them down.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  21:57  
Okay. And I think that's what I'm, that's what I'm trying to say is I think that when the normal that we hear from our pediatrician and most pediatrician is you don't want your child to you know, you don't want them to look sick or be sick or feel sick or become lethargic. So to get that fever down, you give them Tylenol, and they feel better. I see that all the time with my friends even with their kids. So I guess that's not coming back to you. That's the whole point is there's other ways to do that. With the cold,

Dr. Paul  22:28  
wet cloth, let the water evaporate, you can probably get it down in 510 minutes, or for as long as necessary until the ibuprofen kicks in if you're needing to get it down. But here's the key I don't want people to miss and all this. We've been talking a lot about it. If you can get it down in your kid looks fine. You can let it go back up. Right, you already know they're fine. Maybe twice a day you bring it down enough to be sure they're still fine. Okay, right. Parent trick, if you've raised kids, and you gotta go to work, the next day you need your sleep, I would always dose with a dose of ibuprofen before I went to bed. Very selfish that way. Because it lasts for six to eight hours. And that's what a lot all I need for sleep is six or seven hours. So I got my sleep, I'm functioning the next day my kids slept better because they didn't have high fevers in the middle of the night. The trick you should not do that I'm guilty of was sometimes ibuprofen out the door so they don't have

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  23:19  
school. Oh my God. Now we know why there's so much fiction going around. So let's bring it back to influenza and COVID and all these things. Can your child get all three? That was another question. Of course theoretically, the same time.

Dr. Paul  23:37  
Theoretically you could. I have not ever seen that. Okay, so when I used to do those recipe paths and they were testing for about 30 Different organisms, which included a Coronavirus and influenza A and B and RSV. mycoplasma, rhinovirus, enterovirus. enteroviruses, you name it. Sometimes you would get two or three, right, but it was usually remember your swabbing the nose. Now, there's a lot of stuff going on in there. Not all of it is actually causing you problems. Oh, gotcha. You are colonized also with various organisms that are just living at peace in your little cesspool of your nose. So the fact that you grew more than one thing shouldn't be alarming. Okay. Generally it would be just one or two though, okay, and we know which things are more problematic. You're sicker with influenza, you're sicker with RSV. Early on COVID for high risk people was a concern. It isn't. It's so interesting. of the big three because I've been testing all three for the last few weeks in my clinic. The one I'm worried the least about as COVID Okay, when parents get a COVID Oh, yeah, that he was the least sick with COVID of all of the sicker with influenza A sicker with RSV sicker with some Things that aren't any of those three, right? So that fear of COVID can just go away. We don't need your COVID help anymore, we never needed it to begin with.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  25:11  
And, and with that you're referring to the vaccine because there are protocols, and there are things to deal with it. And what I've noticed in the clinic that I'd like you to address, and one of the people who emailed had actually just shared that they appreciated you saying that you didn't feel like this COVID shot for children would be helpful that especially those that got it in the last six months, the younger ones, that those kids, it could affect their immune system, the kids that a lot of the kids that we're seeing in a lot of my friends, kids that got the shot, they're really struggling the season with all of these other issues with influenza. One child is very, very sick with influenza, and they had had this shot, do you think that that's part of it? Is the kids even the older ones who are getting sick now that maybe wouldn't have because they had the vaccine? Do you think that has to do with an immune system?

Dr. Paul  26:03  
Absolutely. And I've had several guests speak to this, the vaccines in general, but the COVID jab in particular, really does a number on shifting your immune system into the make antibody side of the immune system. So away from your innate, inborn T cell immunity, if you will, and shifts it to B. So we're going to make antibodies, you've got to remember antibodies are the second line of defense, they're the backup, if, if an infection gets through and you become infected, it's only then that you make antibodies. And so shifting the making antibodies actually does some harm. Because now if you get re exposed to that disease, and it enters because your innate immune system, your T cell immunity is not working as well, which is what these shots are doing. You get a massive response. And this is this massive inflammation where I think we're seeing the myocarditis, but clotting problems, the adult Death Syndrome, people just dropping dead. It's a massive release of cytokines inflammatory and what have your immune systems on fire. And it's not natural. So the advice at this point for COVID jabs for sure going forward, No way No child should get them. And most of the really well informed doctors who are dealing with this are saying nobody, period.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  27:32  
Okay. Well, thank you for answering questions, again, most of them right now. And on the last one, we talked about polio, I think when so many things are going around. And he always talks openly and freely about these things. It's very helpful and very supportive. But I do think that it is a real fear for parents, and especially moms, we seem to be like, we don't want our kids to be sick. And when you listen to the news, and you see children outside of hospitals in these beds, because they're at capacity and all these things that are happening. That's a real fear. Yeah. So just a final note, what can you say to parents, for me, it's it's faith over fear, you just have to have faith over fear. What is it as a doctor?

Dr. Paul  28:17  
So I agree with faith over fear. But here's the great news, there are a whole host of things you can do. One to prevent even getting these infections. Number one on that list is vitamin D. Okay? If they had just given a care package to every citizen in the USA, for enough vitamin d3 With que tu maybe add a little magnesium and zinc to that we wouldn't have had an outbreak or epidemic at all, I'm pretty sure of that. So make sure your vitamin D status is optimal, not just normal, but optimal. And every good doctor I've talked to agrees with me that's 50 to 80 micrograms per liter, per milliliter, sorry. And that's the normal in the US measurement.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  29:04  
So you're not prescribing you're diagnosing No, no,

Dr. Paul  29:06  
this is just informational, run it by your clinicians. You can go to the FL CCC, the frontline Critical Care Alliance docs and actually pull out Dr. Paul Alexander substack recently put out a really comprehensive doc document about what you can do. They have the eye prevent protocol. I mean, it's like use mouthwash. You can use a nose spray, you can use Popova dine iodine spray, just make it dilute enough. So it's see through Brown and flush your nose twice a day. Whatever gets in there, whether it's COVID, flu, RSV, it's not getting past there, you're gonna knock it out, kill it on the spot before it enters your body. He's talks about vitamin D, zinc 20 to 50 micrograms per deciliter. Vitamin C 500. Twice a day. If you're an adult, you can go lower if you're younger. You can go way more if you can tolerate it. If you're older melatonin it actually is an antioxidant it helps reduce binding to the ACE receptors and Interesting enough, this same protocol that's been so successful with COVID actually works for RSV. Those two viruses actually have a lot of similarities. Elderberry, you've heard of it before, I would add elderberry. Just when you're sick, it's not something you need to take all the time. Same with resveratrol and quercetin. These help these zinc iontophoresis. It just, it allows your immune system be so much more robust. And believe it or not ivermectin at that point, two milligrams per kilogram, couple times a week will prevent infection from RSV COVID, probably influenza as well. And acetyl cysteine we talked about and then the last and hardest to get in the USA in the winter is sunlight. I hope you will do a lot of these things. Be prepared. And you don't need to be fearful. You can have incredible faith when you've also done your homework and you've prepared.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  30:50  
So keep sending in your questions every once in a while we'll have these little chats so that we can answer some of those questions for you. And I don't know if it's okay to say this or not. But upcoming because you've got one more shift as a medical doctor here in in Oregon, you're going to be doing some wellness coaching, to help with a lot of people who want to connect with you personally, and be able to really hear about how to advocate for yourself and your own health and your own wellness. So stay tuned.

Dr. Paul  31:24  
It's kids first forever. This is my partner in crime right here at Hoover. So folks, we're starting something special d&i, it's called Kids First forever, you've got a kids first forever.com, that website is going to be developing. And we will bring everything we possibly can to the world at that site, looking forward to connecting with you, and sharing this journey with you.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  31:48  
And it's kids first forever, the number four ever.com. And you can go and sign up now to be receiving our newsletters. When we start getting everything together and organized. We'll be sending out newsletters to let you know how to connect with us

Dr. Paul  32:03  
foreign kids first forever stands for spiritual,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  32:06  
emotional, physical, and mental because all four of those areas are important.

Dr. Paul  32:14  
There you have it, folks. See you next time.

Welcome back to against the wind. Bernadette, it's always great to have you I understand today you're going to talk to us about the mindset of people in public health. I'm eager to hear what you've got to say.

Bernadette Pajer  32:32  
Yeah, thank you. Well, you know, it's so important when we're on this mission to to really understand what we're up against. Because, you know, the while there's some demons out there, as far as who know, bad products and bad policy, the majority, hundreds, literally hundreds of 1000s of individuals working in public health have good hearts, and they mean well. But their particular mindset has been directly influenced by really to use the term misinformation. So I wanted to share with you this paper that was published in The Lancet, it is an opinion piece. But it really gives insight into the mindset of people in public health. They want to control communicable infectious contagious disease. And so in this just this was published in April of 2022 in The Lancet vaccination and natural immunity, advantages and risks as a matter of public health policy. So you'll see here they looked at both, and they say although both methods, natural immunity and vaccination provide some level of immunization, they create substantially different concerns for policy and substantially different risks for the individual. As natural immunity requires becoming infected. Their contrast should consider medical science, including the relative protection offered by each pathway. However, the larger debate must also address practical and logistical issues when applying immunization requirements through public policy. So you know, you and I as individuals making our own health decisions, we're thinking about what's best for me, what's my individual risks? can I overcome the disease? Will I develop natural immunity? How long does it last? That's that's how we base our decision for ourselves and our families. Public health has to take this larger view of what can we control? What can we put in policy that we can find, and that we can control?

Dr. Paul  34:40  
Right. And I think you you brought up in the beginning a very important point. And this is true for how most doctors think as well, most MDs, were true trained, that vaccines are safe. And so we don't look at side effects. And we're trained that they're effective. When and Back certainly with the SARS cov. Two as a great illustration, the effectiveness is is horrendous.

Bernadette Pajer  35:06  
Yes, exactly it, it quickly goes to negative efficacy, which makes it absolutely not out not just useless but dangerous. So, so it's highlighted in the next thing I've got highlighted there it says For most the scientific evidence must be considered specific to SARS. cov to some results suggests that vaccine induced immunity is more effective. Other results suggest that natural immunity is more effective. So it's good. They're reading all the studies out there. Some findings estimate both as roughly equal, but then we get down to risk exposure is the first issue for public health to consider. Notably, each pathway to immunity exposes individuals to different levels of risk. People could have adverse reactions to vaccines, or severe outcomes due to infection. Well, that's absolutely agreed right. This is common sense discussion. But we then we get to the sentence adverse effects have been minimal for COVID 19 vaccines, how in the world unless they are living, which they apparently are in the bubble that considers everything published, it bears all of the science showing the dangers, the lipid nanoparticles, Emma RNA generated spike, you know, everything that we're seeing, how blind are they to

Dr. Paul  36:26  
the astounding, I mean, we know the increase huge signal and myocarditis, a whole new syndrome, adult Sudden Death Syndrome. I mean, you've seen athletes dropping dead on the soccer fields. And these are not isolated cases, the literature is full of the horrendous amount of side effects from this jab.

Bernadette Pajer  36:47  
Yes. And this segment is be the news, right? I'm trying to empower people. This shows that there is, you know, as much as we are censored, the people who are being blocked most from the information we know, are people in public health. So we must continue, you know, educating public health, eventually somebody will wake up and listen to what we're saying. So let's continue that. And then they go on to say that the SARS cov. SARS, cov to exposure, meanwhile, carries significant and well documented dangers. Well, that is somewhat true, but also misleading. And because SARS cov. Two holds dangerous if you don't have adequate levels of vitamin D, and zinc and glutathione. And if you don't have early treatment protocols at the ready to prevent severe disease, and these are things that public health is not even mentioning, they're not dealing with that is another avenue that must be opened up into public health. And then they talk about reliability. How do you build policy around people getting sick, you don't know if they get sick, you don't know if they get re exposed, and so they feel completely out of control. And I love the sentence here, vaccination uses the same formula each time the same dosage and with an identifiable date of vaccination. Winning immunity can be documented, documented with high reliability. natural immunity is highly variable by comparison. And public health people who are trying to set policy they don't like variability. They don't like individuality. They want one size fits all approach, whether it works or not.

Dr. Paul  38:39  
I'm smiling because okay, we've got data that the vaccine is not giving lasting protection. And while natural immunity, sure it is variable, but it's giving very long lasting protection. Who cares if it's one year or 30 years? That's a whole lot better than three to five months. That's all you get with the COVID jab.

Bernadette Pajer  38:59  
Yeah, if you get any at all, and if it all goes to negative and the risks, I mean, the thing is, you know what it is, it's just it's absurd. But but you know, you I sent the earnestness and these individuals because they're having conversations that need to be public. I would love to have people on stage, having this dialogue and then presenting the science on each side, because this is really important. And then sustainment is the third and again, boosters for natural infections are more difficult to coordinate. Well, especially if the booster is natural exposure. Right, which is how colds and flus generally build immunity. You only typically get if you're not being exposed to vaccine products, the flu like maybe every decade or 20 years, because every exposure then makes you more resilient for many years forward and then it changes enough that then you you know, you might get symptomatic disease after certain point, but you can't control natural boosters. But you can control when you're going to give those boosters to the public if you've got a program. And so that's the mindset that control the paternalistic control. You know how? So Dr. Paul, how do we help public health let go of their fear of not being in control. They only have this fear over vaccine targeted infections, you don't hear the panic and lack of control over the common cold,

Dr. Paul  40:38  
or the hundreds or 1000s of infections that we don't have a vaccine for. There's no concern for those. I would say, as I listened to you presenting this, and it rings true this is this is how doctors and public health officials think and in fact, government officials who are helping set policy that they shouldn't be involved with. But anyway, they don't understand natural immunity, they don't understand the data. So it seems to me and you're more involved with going to legislatures, and, you know, trying to give people good information. But it seems like the only way forward is to present good information. So where can people go to get that good information?

Bernadette Pajer  41:22  
Yeah, well, you we need good information. We need to continue to educate the legislators and public health, but it's going to come from the individuals, when enough of the population knows the truth about each individual that can product, real health, early treatment, sustaining health, all of that, then there's going to be all this non compliance with policy. Right? So all of these educational avenues have to come forward. And where do you get good information? Well, you get it from Dr. Pol. You get it from Children's Health defense, who links you to good science and good doctors, you get it from the FL CCC, the frontline critical care COVID-19, critical care specialists are going to have to change their name eventually in tic COVID out of there, because they're branching into flu and RSV. Now, it's wonderful, what they're doing. To help people understand how you can protect yourself from severe disease from other infections. You go to your trusted health care provider, somebody who's aligned with you and understanding how brilliant your God given immune system is to protecting you.

Dr. Paul  42:35  
And I would add, when we say trusted healthcare provider, we are really talking about, as you said, Someone aligned with your beliefs. But let's say you're watching this and you're not sure where you stand on vaccines, you at least want a doctor who's willing to let you be in charge in charge. You're allowed to be the decision maker about what happens as you get informed. Because too many doctors are just you do it my way are out the door. Yes, paternalism that was gone back when I was in medical school, they were saying that's the worst kind of medicine. And yet, that's what we're going back to at least when you're talking about vaccines and pharma products.

Bernadette Pajer  43:07  
Well, yeah, we're going back to that. But it's it's less an attitude that kind of came with the profession and the white coat and I can do this kind of thing. It's it's worse than that, because it's coming top down, where major entities are telling doctors what they can and cannot do or say we've got that law in California, silencing doctors, we've got the oh, that starts with an F the Federation of medical boards, that is telling nurses, doctors, all practitioners what they can and cannot say and do.

Dr. Paul  43:47  
Yeah, they sent out that letter last year to all the boards, basically stating that if doctors are not following the approved narrative, they are participating in disinformation and you should consider taking their license. So it's it's incredible pressure on doctors, if you're trying to support your family, and you don't know anything else. I mean, I I remember when I was first realizing I could lose my license, which of course now I have thinking, wow, how would I support my family? And when I was younger, it was a real factor in me staying a little silent about what I knew I shared the truth with my patients, but I wasn't out there on blast trying to tell the world. Yeah, because of the consequences. At this point, I don't care about the consequences. So yeah, let's go and let's let the world know what's really going on. Listen to people who have nothing to lose,

Bernadette Pajer  44:37  
listen to people who exactly right and and two things should give you hope. Well, one is more and more people are joining you, Dr. Paul. And we really are at that point of medical history of health history where everybody who has something to risk and is being threatened needs to stand up because if everybody rises together, then you You all will be heard, they can't silence you all. And we can take this back. So that's really important. And there is a growing parallel health system being developed. Dr. Pierre Korea's Got an online medical service. Now, there's the wellness company, Dr. Peter McCullough and others have founded this. And there's, there's multiple numbers, we should do an episode sometime and gathering more and more. And, you know, at first, it's going to be difficult, because, you know, they're not a lot of these places aren't taking insurance, and it's going to be an out of pocket expense. And eventually, we have to find a way that, you know, anybody can go to them, even, you know, not being cost prohibitive. But in the meantime, if you can afford it, support these parallel medical systems that are that are going forward

Dr. Paul  45:53  
that represent we will need parallel insurance products that will cover Yeah, alternative a parallel system. And it's, we're working on this, folks. If you are a health care professional, and you're in feeling you're in this bind of I'm going to lose my career, or destroy my career, but you you know what you need to be doing, I would just urge you to do it, you need to do anyway. Because if you don't think about the magnitude of stress, internal, it's just, if you're living from your soul at all, if you're connected at all, to spirit, you can't do it. I mean, so you have to disconnect. And where does that take you? So grab hold of the truth, grab hold of the knowledge that you already have. And don't be shy, be bold, stick to the truth because it wins in the end. And we're real close, folks. If the House of Cards is going to fall apart, and it's coming quickly.

Bernadette Pajer  46:50  
Yeah. You made me pretty emotional with that. Dr. Paul, amen. I hope everybody's listening and take see. Thank you. Thank you, Bernadette.

Dr. Paul  47:06  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show, PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai