​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind and doctors and science on your fire on Dr. Paul, your host. Today's show features an interview I had with Shane Riley. He's an expert on EMF, what is it? What is the bio initiative? What extent of research is out there when we're talking 1000s of articles, the specific vulnerability of children to EMF, we talk about 5g, and then most importantly, don't miss towards the end of the interview he discusses what can we do to protect ourselves and our children. I then have a great interview with Suzanne Gallagher. She's the director of parents rights and education. And their website, parents rates in ed.org is filled with information that will help you if you are a parent, and you're worried about what's going on in your child's school. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart, I have to tell you this week, folks recovering from COVID. And now walking through a storm on the Oregon coast, the oceans behind me I can't see it. It's not far you can probably hear it. But I have to tell you there is something very special about recognizing the importance of the storm and going through the storm that might be a part of perhaps what you're also experiencing. I think collectively, we have all experienced an incredible storm with COVID-19. And the response to it that our government agencies and public health officials etc, have put upon us. But we've joined together here at against the wind and been able to share a different narrative. And now on a personal level, I just wanted to share from my heart that my own personal storm that's been a result of this time, this last two, three years. While on the surface appearing to be horrendous has been the biggest gift of my life. I hope you too can find a gift in whatever storm you might be experiencing. I come to you with love. So much love had been freely shared with me. And I come to you and gratitude for so many of you who have actually extended love to me. Love support, encouragement, guidance, blessings, thank you. And I wish upon you Love and blessings, courage to persist, hang in there and endure if it's hard because there is a rainbow on the other end. And the lessons we can learn individually and collectively are what's going to make everything worth it. I'm Dr. Paul

welcome Shane Riley man, I loved hearing your information. When we met at a presentation you were giving a little restaurant and Oregon City I think it was some months ago, you are the owner of optimal dwelling spaces. You're the president of 5g free, Oregon. Man, that sounds huge. You have an amazing website optimal dwelling spaces.com. And you really specialize in electromagnetic pollution inspection remediation and consultation. This is a whole field that I know is important. But I don't think very many of us are aware of the magnitude of what this really is and what it means. So thank you for being on against the wind. It's really an honor to have you on the show.

Shane Reilly  3:29  
Well, thank you for the opportunity, Dr. Thomas. And likewise, in Oregon City at that event, your presentation and the data and the slides you had prepared were really amazing, really eye opening. So I enjoyed your presentation.

Dr. Paul  3:45  
Oh, thank you. So just to kick this off, this is such a new area for me. Explain to our audience, first of all, you know how you got to where you are as far as your background? And why on earth did you decide to become a building biologist?

Shane Reilly  4:00  
Yeah, that's kind of a kind of a big one. I think a great way to do that is to just share this image. And this is really the why for me, once upon a time actually worked as a firefighter. And you can see that in the bottom right. And it was just amazing, an amazing world to be a part of. But shortly into it, I got really basically worn out emotionally, physically, mentally, was not good for me. It's a very demanding job, as you probably know, and you know, being up all night can catch up with the best of us. What was perplexing for me was we were working out all the time, nutrition, Paleo is just kind of coming online. So we were really into that I was young, and I was breaking down physically and emotionally and mentally like I said, and having a really tough time that so it just it wasn't making sense. To me, and eventually I had to walk away from it, which was really, really a tough decision for me and my family. When I did, I got better. And I started actually hearing a little bit more about this EMF business. And I listened to some podcasts and kind of started falling down the rabbit hole of electromagnetic fields. And then just not even three, four years later, my mother has in the middle contracted a very aggressive form of brain cancer, glioblastoma, and from timing for diagnosis to passing was about eight months. So it just, it happened so fast. And as the dust was settling, I knew a little bit more about EMF and how it played in with health at that point. And when my head cleared, I can kind of think about how my mom use technology, cell phone up to her head all the time, very social person, you know, new everybody in town sleeping with an iPad under her pillow and power lines outside of her second story townhome window, and some more pieces clicked for me about how EMF related and I believe it's a significant factor in her contracting that brain tumor and being taken so soon. And then the next piece here are my two daughters. And as they entered the public school system, I became really, really, really deeply concerned about the amount of tech and the wireless that goes with it, they were being exposed to day in and day out. So all of that coalesced for me into wanting to help people avoid some of the the hardship that I had experienced. And I said, There's got to be a way to be certified to do this. Google Search brought up this place called the building Biology Institute, which came over from Germany in the 80s. And it really is a discipline that focuses on the natural world and the built world. So the ways that we've become disconnected with with our homes and all the nice technologies and conveniences inside them. The way those have disconnected us from the natural world and from optimal true health. So we work with real estate professionals, contractors, builders, homeowners, practitioners, such as yourself, to sort of raise that awareness and to show ways to make your home a little bit healthier.

Dr. Paul  7:30  
So you're very much self taught. It sounds like there wasn't a university for EMF.

Shane Reilly  7:38  
Yes, it's really in its infant stages. There is an institute and some dozens of people go through the training every year. But yeah, a lot of this is new, and is figuring it out on your own in the field. And so I've been doing that since about 2017, working with clients inside their homes to identify how much EMF they have, where it's coming from, and then what they can do to lower that.

Dr. Paul  8:06  
Wow. Well, that's awesome. Let's start it off then. Because EMF is a term. I think it's electromagnetic frequencies. Right? But But what does that mean? Maybe you can help us out with kind of understanding the range of things that fall into what we call EMF.

Shane Reilly  8:25  
Yeah, absolutely. It's a topic. When I show this you might recall from physics in junior high or high school. But an EMF is just if you boil it down is the way energy gets from point A to point B in the universe. And there's a number of ways that it does that as far as the frequency and the amplitude and other components. But this is kind of a chart, a graphical representation of how we understand it today. And you can see some common items that you might have in your home or you might know about from all the way on the low end to like an am radio wavelength all the way up into cosmic, you know, nuclear gamma rays, radiation and everything in between. So that's really what we're talking about is energy going from point A to point B.

Dr. Paul  9:17  
Very interesting. So I'm curious. I mean, that's a huge range of wavelengths. And they meant I saw that rainbow in the middle of visible light. The rest of its invisible to us. And I mean, I hear about like, certainly, I read a lot about 5g and, and you're very involved with that. But how are these things affecting health? What should we be worried even?

Shane Reilly  9:47  
We absolutely should. And it is tricky. Like you said, you can't see these things. You can't taste them. You can't touch them. But the researchers and the scientists have been looking at Since the middle of the last century, actually, back in, you know, the 60s and 70s, NASA actually caught wind of a document and translated it from Russia from the 1930s, where they have looked at a variety of these EMFs and how they interacted with humans and animals. And you can see on the screen there's there's a lot to read here. But essentially, they found effects and impacts across a huge variety of body systems, different levels of radiation, low high. And they just documented hundreds and hundreds of effects from from this type of radiation. And you know, even more recently, and that research has continued a very good resource. If you're having that same question that you asked me to these effects you or maybe you're a little skeptical, or you know, a skeptic, or you just want to read up. Back in 2007, this report called Bio initiative came out 29 PhDs, researchers, doctors got together and said, Hey, we've seen enough, there's enough research out here that we should be doing some some things to protect people and to raise awareness. And so they compiled 1000s of studies. And there's some really nice color coded charts, as you can see here on the screen, that show a variety of effects at different radiation levels. And you might be surprised to know that most of these levels that they found effects are significantly underneath the government's exposure safety guidelines at this point. So yes, we should absolutely be concerned. Even more recently, there's a prestigious research program in the US called the National Toxicology Program. And they took a look at this and they spent $30 million over 14 years, they are actually looking at older generations of cell phones, remember 2g And 3g When When didn't have all the apps and the fancy things. So you know, lower capability, lower horsepower, and the phone, if you will, and the network, so overall lower radiation. And they found clear evidence of certain cancer types and heart damage and DNA damage in the study rats that they used. So very concerning there. And the same type of tumors that they found in this study. Were also found in some studies that looked at long term or 1010 years or more cellphone users. So definitely reason to be concerned here.

Dr. Paul  12:32  
My sense is that as the cell phone technology has become more and more advanced, you know, you go from like you pointed out 2g to 3g, and we're coming up on 5g Here, each evolution. Is it worse for us? Is it a more powerful environmental toxin?

Shane Reilly  12:51  
Most definitely, yeah. All it's a horsepower race, right. And when a new generation comes out, you know, 3g, and the 4g, a lot more power going into it, plus 3g is still around for some time, it doesn't go away right away. Same thing is gonna happen with 5g and the 4g or LTE that we have now. 5g is going to be additional and built on top of it. So it's just adding

Dr. Paul  13:22  
3g, 4g doesn't go away, they just add another technology,

Shane Reilly  13:26  
it takes some time, 3g is pretty much all phased out now. But you know, we're gonna have 4g with the developing 5g for, you know, a decade or more. And then you know, even when 4g is phased out, there will be as a six g on top of 5g. So the amount of precaution here is really nil. Wow,

Dr. Paul  13:50  
I wow, we're on that I have read something. And I just don't know what to make of it. I wonder if you've heard about this satellite, sort of some kind of way of getting your cell phone connected through satellites. So it'll just blanket a city, for example. And have you read about that is that like, the next level,

Shane Reilly  14:11  
that's, that's kind of a one a one b with this fifth generation evolution. There's a number of companies, including Tesla, SpaceX, who are putting these it's called Starlink, putting this mesh network of satellites up with the goal of covering essentially, every square inch of the globe with a wireless signal that you could then connect to, and there's, there's a number of other companies but at this point, there's, you know, some 10s of 1000s of satellites up there for this purpose.

Dr. Paul  14:46  
Interesting. So I'm a I'm a pediatrician, and so I take care of little people. And I know in in medicine, kids are not just miniature adults. I mean, And when you have take the take the womb where you got moms pregnant and you've got a developing baby, there's so many other variables, and they're so much more vulnerable. I think you've got cell division going on, you've got little brains developing brains networks are being established. I imagine, we have to be concerned with EMFs. And brain development. What are you finding there?

Shane Reilly  15:26  
Definitely, yeah, you really said that kids are not little adults. There's, there's some key differences in the way that these EMFs interact with them. You know, there's, there's some quotes here, I'll just read the one at the bottom. But this is from the American Academy of Pediatrics. And they said, it is essential any new standard for cell phones or other wireless devices be based on protecting the youngest and most vulnerable populations to ensure they are safeguarded throughout their lifetimes? And that's children in this case, and you know, why is that if we look at this graph, the skulls of children are thicker, and the relative proportion of their head to the rest of their body is different from an adult. And that all adds into more susceptibility, more exposure of radiation, for example, from a cell phone. And also, you know, their brains are not myelinated until mid 20s, from what I understand, so that that insulation around the wiring in the brain is not there to protect from this. And what's even more concerning, in my mind is this concept of a lifetime of exposure. You know, when you were born, when I was born, we didn't grow into a world with 5g and a home with 15 to 20, connected wireless devices, you know, technology was so much different 3040 50 years ago. So these kids are having longer exposure times longer, and more chances for the programming and their DNA and their RNA, to start having these errors that accumulate over time. And we know that that's kind of the the foundation of tumors and cancer as processes. So big concern here, you know, especially when you start thinking about schools, the kids spend so much time in, they're really, really susceptible to these EMFs. And their overall time of exposure is just through the roof. And it's really concerning,

Dr. Paul  17:38  
in my career. It's always about trying to first do no harm, right? I mean, that's an oath that doctors are supposed to live by, even though we didn't. The formal swearing of that oath was long gone, I think decades ago. But we were supposed to model that in anything we do. Here's something I just struggle with. So I'm in a world where I become aware that vaccines are a massive toxin, because you're bypassing the natural barrier by injecting through the skin pathogens, or whatever you will antigens don't go through the mucosal surfaces where they interact properly with the immune system. We know our environments loaded with pesticides, we've gotten glyphosate so disruptive to so many things. We've got the plastics and the endocrine disruptors. And now we've got this darn EMF is like, how do we? How do we put it all together? How, how important is this? And is our government doing anything to protect us?

Shane Reilly  18:36  
So the government is, is really turning a blind eye to this. And there's some, some of the usual suspects are behind that, you know, money and lobbying from the companies that make these products. But here's a chart about exposure limits for wireless type of radiation, and we're at the top of the heap, but not in a good way in the US, we're really way beyond significantly beyond what most other countries allow for their citizens. So this tells you something, we're

Dr. Paul  19:11  
seeing a term sorry to interrupt you, I'm seeing a term their power flux density. Can you explain that a little bit,

Shane Reilly  19:18  
that's a fancy term for the intensity of the radiation, the strength of the radiation, and how much we allow. So

Dr. Paul  19:27  
this graph is shocking. I mean, US Japan, I see an IRP as what,

Shane Reilly  19:34  
that's ignor, which is an international body for regulating this type of radiation.

Dr. Paul  19:39  
Got you and then Canada, then you just look at the difference between you know, these, these top ones compared to the rest. I mean, it's magnitudes.

Shane Reilly  19:49  
Part of the problem is the agency that's supposed to be regulating these companies that produce products that use this type of energy. It's essential Chile has a revolving door. So there's a great book here captured agency by norm Alster, which highlights a lot of these inconsistencies how people go from the FCC to the telecoms and back and vice versa. And that's

Dr. Paul  20:17  
sounds just like our FDA and CDC with pharma and vaccines. And

Shane Reilly  20:22  
absolutely, yeah, they really, I mean, there's, there's like one playbook here. And they're all

Dr. Paul  20:28  
they're all used to capture the agencies that regulate you pay them well, so they won't regulate you. And yeah,

Shane Reilly  20:36  
yes. Other things like buying science. Yeah, there's there's just a lot of a lot of things we've seen before with government protection from this. And I really wanted to point this out because it hits a little closer to home here in Oregon, but state bill or Senate Bill 283, from a few years back, Casio ha the Oregon Health Authority to review the available research on wireless, particularly as it related to schools to see, you know, are we harming our kids with all this wireless in schools, and the Oh ha produced a essentially a sham, have a report, not up to scientific snuff when it passed muster, you know, in a peer review type process, widely criticized on an international basis. And this is a great article here, this screenshot I encourage anybody who wants to know a little bit more about this continuing situation in Oregon from the Washington spectator. But essentially, the Oh Ha, went to a hearing and was basically pointed out that they didn't have the resources to actually do this report correctly, they broke a number of rules from the law. And the end result at this point is that the bill still stands saying, no wireless is of no concern in the schools. And the problem here is that other states are going to look at this other decision makers across the country are going to look at this report. Because it was really groundbreaking in a way, not a lot of other places have done this. So one of the one of the things I'm working on with the nonprofit that I work for, is to raise awareness about this and try and push to get this retracted and done, right, because if they did it right, and they actually reviewed all the science and they stayed away from the industry funded bits, it would paint a much different picture, there's essentially four main categories of EMF that we see in the modern home. And artificial lighting is first that was that tiny little sliver on the electromagnetic spectrum from earlier. But light is such a powerful biological signal to us. And the type of lighting we have, it really doesn't match the sun. It's so different from the sun. And so that's

Dr. Paul  23:04  
which is better. If you had I know there's different types of lighting, what what's what's safer.

Shane Reilly  23:09  
Yeah, nothing replaces sunlight. So you have to, you know, work that into your day to get out and actually see the sun at different times of the day and see the natural light. But the best of the worst, essentially, is the good old fashioned incandescent, which you can still get at, you can't walk into Ace Hardware necessarily and get one but you can still get them they're much much safer in terms of EMF then led or fluorescent. So yeah, that's that's the first main type of EMF the second and this is really the big one gets a lot of the attention, but it's the radio frequency or the microwaves or wireless, anything that sends and receives a signal wirelessly. So your cell phone, your Bluetooth, air pod headphones, you know, the Wi Fi system, in your home, on your laptop, there's there's many others, the average home has 15 to 20 of these devices using some type of this wireless energy. So this is a huge one. And I want to touch on 5g Here here in a second because that's really important too. But the other two that kind of get swept under the rug and are a little less known they have to do with the power delivery into your home. Right that's that's energy going from one place to another in the universe. So that is an EMF and our homes, consume power wiring in the walls, the appliances, the blender, the hairdryer, the light bulbs, and as a result of that energy consumption. There are just natural byproducts, kind of electro magnetic wastes that come out into the room. And that's really what we're, we're concerned about at homes is how do we how do we use this technology? A little Bit more intelligently a little more differently, to reduce the burden and to reduce the presence of this artificial energy. And there are many ways to do that. But the wireless part of this gets so much for the talk, but I just want people to know, there's there's actually four main types. And so if you're kind of focusing in on just the wireless part, you're really missing the broader picture. So let me just touch on 5g,

Dr. Paul  25:30  
and the elephant in the room, it looks like

Shane Reilly  25:33  
it is the elephant in the room. And if you believe the hype, you're gonna think it's the greatest thing that's ever come to civilization. I put this slide together to show just how much concern and just how much downside there is to it. As I said earlier, it's additional frequencies, additional radiation on top of what we already have in the skies these days. And they're deploying that radiation in new different ways. Things like phased arrays, and beamforming. Where, you know, you can think of that that scene from Star Wars where the the Death Star is powering up, and the little beams focus in and then the beam shoots out the main concentrated beam, it's a lot like that, where with with 4g, it's it's just sort of the antennas are emitting in a wide swath all day around the clock. 5g is very intelligent precision, and it focuses of beam. So if you have a 5g device, and you're walking down the street, you're gonna get a lot of attention from this, these new antenna arrays. And even if you don't have one, if you're sitting at the cafe, and you're in between someone with the 5g device, let's say in their pocket, and a 5g antenna, you know, that beam is going to come at you and through you a very focused, coherent beam of radiation. So very concerning. We don't know how that's going to affect a cell and organism, human and animal would be, we don't know. Yeah, wow, we haven't added this all together into some kind of experiment yet. So very concerning, and there's really no precaution here.

Dr. Paul  27:21  
So big. So you just brought something to my mind, I didn't realize this, that just how ignorant I am on this technology. So I have a phone that's a couple 234 years old. I'm pretty sure it's a 4g phone. I don't think I have 5g. Because I've had friends who have upgraded to a 5g phone, and they have different problems with connectivity than I do. What you said was, if I'm walking down the street with a 5g phone, I'm attracting this energy.

Shane Reilly  27:52  
Yeah, that is a nuance here between 4g and LTE and the 5g where, whereas LTE is just shoot, it's kind of like a shotgun just spraying out everywhere around the clock. Whereas 5g is much more surgical and it's precision more much more focused. And it's only looking for devices that can take its signal.

Dr. Paul  28:15  
Hmm. So let's delve into the I know you wanted to end the presentation with how we can lower our EMF exposure, protect our families. Tell us what our options are here.

Shane Reilly  28:29  
Yeah, I've got a couple here that I think are really useful to get started on are good bang for the buck items. The first one, this might surprise some people, but there's actually natural, healthy, good EMFs. And this picture shows some of them, right. And we probably know about all these things. But if we're not working them into our daily routine, we are not able to offset this artificial EMF that's so prevalent these days all around us. So getting outside getting natural, full spectrum sunlight, on your skin in your eyes, touching the earth connecting to water, which is a very powerful grounding and shielding mechanism. Being with other humans, right, this is a picture of my partner and my daughter on the beach in Mexico and just interacting with that human to human energy. This is such a powerful one, four for protecting yourself and offsetting the effects of artificially EMF. Number two, this is called the inverse square law. And this can really inform us when we're trying to lower our exposure from EMF because the the intensity of radiation falls off on an exponential basis as you move away from the source of radiation so even a little distance away, drops the amount of radiation that's hitting your body significantly. So, you know, moving your monitor on your desktop, a foot back can really lower some of your EMF exposure or putting the Wi Fi router in a different room of the house, or moving your bed off the wall that has the electrical panel on the other side. Just a little distance can make a huge drop in your personal exposure.

Dr. Paul  30:29  
Interesting. So practically speaking, I'm thinking, so many of us sleep with our cell phones nearby, because we want to be able to just grab it more, maybe what do you think of these Alexa's and smart devices that they they listen to you? And then they answer whatever question you want people have. I've been to homes where they have all over the house.

Shane Reilly  30:51  
Yeah, yeah, those are really concerning privacy, number one, but they're part of this ecosystem of wireless radiation. And part of this and you'll see it on a subsequent slide is to try and eliminate as many of those wireless points as you can, if you're a person, let's say you're on call or something, you have to be by your phone. You know, if you can get it from your bedside table to your master bath, you know, 1012 feet away, whatever it might be, that's a significant drop in your exposure. And you can probably still hear the sound the phone if it rings to get it. So yeah, little little things like that can make a very big difference.

Dr. Paul  31:33  
And this, this takes me back, I just wanted to highlight for our listeners, because you made that comment. There's this lifetime exposure in our kids today. You know, I'm old enough that I grew up in a village in Africa with no electricity, no running water. The only exposure I had was sunshine, and we have lanterns and fireplace. And I mean, uh, you know, that very little exposure to move to now where screentime is everywhere, right? I mean, kids in school nowadays, especially with COVID, hitting the last couple years, everything became even more intense. We have no idea what we're doing to people do, we,

Shane Reilly  32:15  
we we really don't, and we're gonna find out the hard way and some 1015 20 years, you know, and we're already seeing some of that, then some of the epidemiological studies and long term studies on exposures. So it's a big concern. If you want to do anything to improve your home health and lower EMF, it really should start with wireless. And the minimum starting point there is to put things on power strips, put things on timers that omit wireless, like your Wi Fi router, your TV, your Alexa smart devices, whatever it might be, and they should all go off at night, you really you don't need them. And it's just essentially cooking your body in microwave radiation, the gold standard and what I work with a lot of my clients on is to transition to that corded Ethernet network system. That you know was that was the only way you could connect some years ago. But it's it's a great way to do it, it's actually really simple. It's plug and play with a few different components. And you get some adapters for your devices. And they work terrific. And it's much, much faster actually than Wi Fi. So moving to Ethernet is one of the best things you can do. Regarding wireless and microwave radiation, don't be that early adopter of new gadgets, you know, these things, like we talked about the horsepower is just ever increasing on them. So you would be wise to just pump the brakes a little bit and don't get that 5g phone, buy a new to you 4g phone, you know, keep that as long as you can. Actually, when you use your cell phone, do it on speakerphone, or get some air tube headsets that have a section of plastic tubing right here that keep that signal that radiation away from your brain. So yeah, wireless is such a huge one. And then you know, a lot of people don't understand airplane mode, they don't understand that their phone has multiple antennas on it. And your phone can actually show you the airplane icon, but your Wi Fi antenna could still be on. So this is a screen I put up I put it out on social media and other places but just to help people understand how do you truly get your phone into airplane mode because that's important. We're carrying these things around with us and you don't you want to really control as much of the time you're being exposed to radiation as you can. So airplane mode, sleeping. This is so huge this image From a reading, I took on a client on their daughter's bed. And I think she was eight or nine years old, but been having a lot of behavioral issues in school. And as you can see the color coded chart on the right, the magnetic field exposure on her bed was off the charts.

Dr. Paul  35:20  
Swearing a healthy level, those numbers don't mean anything to me.

Shane Reilly  35:24  
Yeah, so down, you know, point two or less down in the green there, guys once you want to be. So essentially, this was just way out of balance. And it was coming from a circuit from a baseboard heater in their home. And so when we disabled that circuit at night, this field went away, the child started sleeping better, improved behavior in school, you know, and it's, it's such an easy thing, flipping a circuit off at night. So creating that sleep sanctuary, the lighting, you see, after the sun goes down, should not be a bright blue tech screen, you know, you should use light filtering software on your laptop and your phone, maybe get some blue blocking glasses, maybe use more candles, or more red or orange bulbs, which don't have that blue daytime component in them. And then also, you know, tech and social media, very invigorating and not in the best way. So looking at your your social media right before bed, is not going to not going to condone itself to really quality sleep. So wireless and sleep are to two huge ones. And then the final thing you can think about to really get to the root of the problem to really fast forward, there's a lot of information, a lot of noise on the internet about EMF is to go with some professional services, either remote consulting, or having someone like me come into your home to identify all the types of EMF and the levels and then build a custom plan. Here's what you need to do in this room, you need an electrician in this room, etc, to really help you march down that list to improve the health of your home the health of your family. And to go from there. So

Dr. Paul  37:14  
and this is what you do, right? That is what I do. Yeah, that's,

Shane Reilly  37:17  
that's one of my favorite things about my work is actually going into someone's home, hearing what's going on for them, and then covering all of the EMF, which is one very important piece of the health puzzle. You know, everybody's a complicated equation, so many different variables. But I do believe and I've seen it, I've experienced it, that the EMF puzzle piece is very important to pay attention to.

Dr. Paul  37:43  
So I'm seeing in your image here some gadgets, these would be the things I'm guessing if you're here in Oregon, so I gotta have you come into my home or my place of business, you're gonna use your gadgets to figure things out. Yeah, make some recommendations. But how does one help someone remotely?

Shane Reilly  38:04  
Yeah, there are a number of things I've done from just putting out information on social media tips, that short videos on YouTube, things you should be aware of in a neighborhood or in a home ebooks on how to understand and detect EMFs. And we can actually do like our focus in on one area of the home remotely. And the client fills out a questionnaire beforehand. And then we look at the room on zoom just like we're doing now. And we can go around and I can tell them some things to improve upon to make to make that exposure lower in that area.

Dr. Paul  38:45  
Interesting. And are any of the devices you use to detect EMFs? Are any of them affordable enough for people to do this on their own? Maybe with your guidance remotely?

Shane Reilly  38:56  
The devices I use are really high end so no, they're not. There are some very good consumer level meters out there that I recommend to people that can allow them to you know, if if you're in your home trying to improve your office or if you're traveling, if you check into an Airbnb, for example, and you want to know what's going on in there. Or you wonder why you slept terribly in the Airbnb that night. You know, you can scan the bed and see what's going on and make some changes. So yeah, there's there's very good tools for professionals and for consumers.

Dr. Paul  39:32  
So Shay, this is fascinating. I, I like to be practical. So as a pediatrician, for example, and I've gotten into integrative and holistic sort of approaches, sometimes. The list of things we might ask people to do to have optimal wellness. It's overwhelming, like either cost wise, it's overwhelming or it's just too many things to do. If you were to prioritize, let's just say you You're calm coming to you, but I don't have a lot of money. But I am really concerned about this issue. Could you prioritize for me and for our viewers maybe what are the the most important things we should do? Absolutely, if possible, do these things.

Shane Reilly  40:15  
Yeah, there's three that come to mind, the first is going to be to eliminate wireless as much as possible in your home. And the second is going to be to get outside with the natural light and connection to the earth. And then the third is going to be to watch the artificial light that you get. So the screens and the bulbs, especially after sunset, so you know that can, if you're seeing bulbs that tell your brain, it's solar noon, it's gonna impact your sleep, how fast you can fall asleep, your sleep quality. So then to counter that block light, block the bad light inside, you get outside during the day, and you tune into what the sun's doing. And that really helps your circadian timing your circadian rhythm. So if you do those three things, I guess two of them are kind of around light, but the wireless piece, and lighting is extremely impactful. And switching Ethernet is not not terribly expensive. And it's it's not very hard to get outside. So that's pretty, pretty economical to

Dr. Paul  41:33  
Yeah, I understand the importance of good sleep. It's it's restorative for health and so much more. What about the what about this? I'll just play devil's advocate, Shane, I sleep fine. I don't see why I need to change my screen exposure and where my cell phones at. I fall asleep pretty well. And I'm old enough have to get up and use the bathroom once or twice. But beyond that, I sleep pretty good. How are your suggestions going to make my life any better?

Shane Reilly  42:03  
Yeah, it's a good question. And I do get that from time to time. I like to relay the the anecdote about the frog in the boiling pot of water. With this, you know, you get used to a certain status quo, a certain environmental condition around you. So you might just be be used to a certain level and a certain quality of sleep. And you've forgotten about, you know, how much how much on the top? Could I improve here? I think that's very, very applicable to EMF and asleep. So yeah,

Dr. Paul  42:38  
that's a good point. For folks who remember camping. There's something about the sleep you get when you're on the ground in a tent. It was special. I remember that.

Shane Reilly  42:51  
Yeah, absolutely. That's another good one, too. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  42:55  
So final thoughts. Just share it share with my audience share with the world. What's what's burning on your heart?

Shane Reilly  43:05  
Yeah, this is this EMF issue is the the cigarette of the digital age, I really think that's going to coalesce and become concrete. In a decade or two, there's going to be a price to pay. And I want as many people to be aware of the impact of EMF and to start making changes now in their life. And there's a lot of really low hanging fruit that anybody can take action on. I'm a terrific resource with questions and how to do that there's, there's some good information on on the internet. But I just want to really encourage people to look into this issue. It can feel a little overwhelming, but myself and other colleagues, other building biologists have done a lot of work to try and make it simple, make it accessible, and to help you on that on that journey to optimal health. So please don't ignore EMF, please really tune in, do some reading, do some due diligence, ask some questions, and kind of kind of go down that path to change what's going on in your home. And to really impact all the people that are in it in a positive way.

Dr. Paul  44:17  
Fantastic. I know you have a website optimal dwelling spaces.com Is there any other way that people can get a hold of you?

Shane Reilly  44:24  
That's a great one. They can search that same name on social media as well. I'm, I'm on the usual suspects there. So yeah, I'd love to hear from people and I'm happy to answer your questions and be a resource in any way I can.

Dr. Paul  44:39  
Fantastic. God bless, man. Thank you very much.

Shane Reilly  44:43  
Yeah. Thanks, Dr. Thomas.

Dr. Paul  44:51  
Welcome Suzanne Gallagher to against the wind Luxton science under fire.

Suzanne Gallagher  44:54  
Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for having me today.

Dr. Paul  44:57  
Looking at the background behind you that answers one Other questions I had you are the director of Parents Rights in Education. I know you have an event coming up in Oregon this coming week. Yeah, you got started and what's going on with?

Suzanne Gallagher  45:10  
Well, Laurie Porter, this teacher, she contacted me, she said, I'm gonna start an organization, would you come to a meeting, we're going to be talking about, you know, how to set it up, et cetera. And so I went to the meeting. And they were talking about names, usually, that's the first thing you do, what are we going to call it, and they had some names that they were suggesting. And I said, well, um, can't call it that can't use the name, or, again, that's going to limit you, you don't know what's going to happen. And you need to name it for the issue. Not concerned, you know, citizens for good schools, or something like that has to be serious, because we're talking about the law here, right. That's what we that's what we're protecting is our individual freedom based on the law. I said, you have to name it Parents Rights in Education, because everybody else was claiming their rights actually rights that they don't even have. And yet we do have natural rights as parents. And the Supreme Court has upheld us rights in relation to the school system, that parents do have the right to direct the education of their children. So I said, that's what you got to call it, because that is the mission. And it is the issue. Later, when Laurie wasn't able to continue running the organization. They asked me if I would take over. So that was just about five years ago. And since then, it grew to what you see behind me why, because of the name of our organization. It's about their rights. And And We have certainly more than parents in our organization, we have a lot of concerned citizens, grandparents, just people, teachers, ex teachers who care about the system that is under attack. And it comes down to the rights that parents are losing. So that's that's the story. That's the background I am and here's all your all these states. And it's exciting.

Dr. Paul  47:11  
So I looked at your website briefly before we got on together. And I know that some of the issues you're dealing with have to do with Student Health. I know you know, I'm a pediatrician, and I've been fighting for medical freedom and informed consent, and where we oversexed one another I think, you know, in our lap, and what we're trying to do here is, you know, parents should have the right to determine what happens to their children when it comes to health. And obviously, all these other educational areas that we can cover. And the vaccine issue has been the way that the system has sort of gotten around parent authority by mandating vaccines for you to go to school. And even though we're in Oregon, you and I, and we have the ability in Oregon parents can just go watch a video and sign their exemption. And they don't have to go to these great lengths of getting all these vaccines. But the schools don't tell parents this, they just line these kids up, basically.

Suzanne Gallagher  48:07  
Yeah. Yeah. And they don't, you know, they don't make a big effort to tell the parents what their rights are. Right? Yes, there's an agenda. Within the public school system, there are things that they want you to do. And they believe that students can make up their minds, you know, about their gender identity when they're in kindergarten, this is very traumatizing. And I know as a pediatrician, you're concerned not only about the, the, the physical health of these young kids, but their mental health in a lot of what they're doing, I believe, and they is under the banner of mental health, a lot of the things that are happening in the public school. And that is a huge concern of our organization. Because basically, they're talking behind the parents backs, telling students, minor children, other people's minor children, talking to them about things that have nothing to do with academics. And the parents should be part of the discussion. They should know what what their kids are discussing with with another adult.

Dr. Paul  49:16  
Sure. Yeah, sex education, gender identity education, a lot of things that are now being done in the schools used to be something parents would do at home, right. And then you would send your kid to school for education more in the terms of, you know, academics and obviously to have healthy social interaction, although that now seems to be an oxymoron in the school system for for a lot of things. Yeah. What I know for parents, for example, when the laws are such that you are being mandated to do something or the school system curriculum is such that it's exposing your kids to things perhaps that you may not be comfortable with. One option is Is homeschooling is that is that an area that your organization?

Suzanne Gallagher  50:02  
Oh, yeah, thank you for allowing me to, to address that we do support choice because we're about parents rights. So parents should have the the right to choose whatever education they want for their child. Part of that may be within the public school system, about what you want your child to be taught or not. There, they've lost a lot of ground in the public schools. Like, as I mentioned earlier, I got involved in the early 90s and 9090, that was the year when school choice was first put on the ballot, there was an initiative, and unfortunately was voted down, we wouldn't be talking about any of this probably, if it had passed. But at that time, the situation within the walls of the schools was not nearly as dire as it is now. And so to a degree, all of these things that have happened, and since then, to, to catapult us into this situation, or and maybe has been a good thing big because in 1990, I said, Okay, I've been doing this for six years, I'm gonna start my business, then, you know, I'm done. I'm worn out, you know, this activists, you know, trying to try to make a difference. Nobody believed me now, oh, yeah, they believe it, and then some. So sometimes, you know, it's got to get worse before it gets better. Just like, you know, marital counseling. You look into, it's like, oh, my gosh, and we have a tab on our site about homeschooling. In fact, we're concerned that home schoolers and listen, they know it. I know a lot of people who homeschool, and they're concerned that regulations will begin to encroach from the state into what they're doing at that homeschooling level. And pretty soon, they won't be able to do it, they'll be requiring them to have master's degrees or crazy things like that, you know, for six year old, teaching a six year old, you have to have a masters that would destroy homeschooling. So we all want that.

Dr. Paul  52:14  
So, you know, as I think back historically, I'm remembering that education, in the very beginning was about getting subsistence farmers kids trained for industry, and then it has morphed into something rather quickly. It feels like in the last decade or two, it's a whole different sort of programming, it feels like what's driving this, and what do you want parents to know?

Suzanne Gallagher  52:42  
Well, okay, so what our website we have on, we have our we had a great seminar summit last year. And they're all all of those speeches are on the website, so people could watch those from last year. And among them is a presentation by our leader in Texas, and she talks about the money. How is the money being funneled into the local school districts? And why don't we have any local control, because there are outside interests that have an agenda. And they are controlling literally, from, you know, a national level, in fact, they're even working in coalition with state legislators, leaders, you know, governments Departments of Education, to to pass laws at the state level, talking about mandates, mandating certain things be taught. And as a result, that's why we see a lot of programs that have nothing to do with academics. They're all about changing what people think.

Dr. Paul  54:02  
Yeah, that's fascinating. I, I have on my show, I interviewed someone who had been following the money with regards to the masking of our children in schools, and these massive amount of incentive dollars that were going to each local school in Oregon in our in our situation, if they would enforce the masking policies, otherwise, they lost. I mean, the amount of money was obscene. I mean, yes, it was like beyond their total budget that they would ever have imagined.

Suzanne Gallagher  54:33  
So yeah, sounds like blackmail money, isn't it?

Dr. Paul  54:36  
Absolutely. Yeah. So So you and I have become aware of these things. I mean, you're way ahead of my understanding of what's going on in the schools. What do you suggest? The listener here who's a parent? Perhaps they're not really aware of the extent to which things have become what they are. This happens so quickly. What What should parents do?

Suzanne Gallagher  54:59  
It's So I encourage anyone to take a look at this before they put their kids in school. Okay, number one. And the easiest way to do that, well right now is to come to our event, spend a day, they're not going to get everything, you know, we can't cover it all in one day. It's unbelievable. But visit our website, on just under the main banner, there is an icon, our summit is coming up. It's on Saturday, the sixth of August. Come and listen. And that's a great way to get an introduction on sometimes we just need to be sat down and you know, have to pay attention.

Dr. Paul  55:40  
Your events is here in Oregon, is there an option for people to attend? Virtually?

Suzanne Gallagher  55:47  
No, we need him to be there. But afterward, we will, you know, we will, we are going to video, record all of the speakers. And we'll make that available at our website. So we usually do do that. Fantastic. They can watch the videos from last year, get started with that they're all there right there. Watch them with some other parents. It's a great, you know, it's a great way to learn. And I also do a podcast. I'm just ready to launch one for tomorrow. And it's great for parents, it's great for me, because you don't have to, you can be doing several things at once, which most people do nowadays anyway. And then we'll give you an overview. So we touch on Gosh, I've done almost 150 podcasts now on all these different subjects. And they're not more than 20 minutes long.

Dr. Paul  56:40  
Fantastic. And your podcasts are available at parents rights and ed.org.

Suzanne Gallagher  56:44  
Yep, you can just click on the link and then or listen to it on. Let's see, I think it's on Apple and Spotify and you know, the main platforms for podcasts?

Dr. Paul  56:54  
Fantastic. Yeah. Well, this is just so important that you were able to get on the show here and parents, please, just as I've been trying to bring you information about health freedom and informed consent, become informed about what's going on in your kids schools. If you just sort of assume that everything's okay. You may experience what I went through. When my kids graduated from college, local Portland State College, I realized that I had actually lost the heart and soul of my kids to some extent, sorry, that they had become very clearly a part of a system that was nothing like the family unity that they came from. Wow,

Suzanne Gallagher  57:43  
I'm sorry to hear that. It's,

Dr. Paul  57:46  
you know, we're all we're all in this incredible world trying to work it out. After somewhere that there are forces out there that are not looking out for our best interests, either as family units or as social, socially connected, loving individuals. There are some big money interests that are sort of behind the scenes, messing with things and so this is a great opportunity to become aware.

Suzanne Gallagher  58:12  
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on today.

Dr. Paul  58:22  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors in science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:04  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire. Today's show I interviewed Dr. John Reisman. He is a psychiatrist who just completed a book called Conscious medicine an integral model of healing. We talk about the difference between conscious and unconscious medicine. It's powerful folks. We talk about the health continuum. But the important distinction between quantity of health and quality of health, between health and disability. And we also talk about the need for a parallel system. He's come to the same realization that I've come to that so many of my peers who you've heard on this show have come to the same conclusion that our current medical system is so broken, we can't even fix it, we have to build a new system. So we're all on the same page for you on that it's happening. I then finished the show with an interview with Ben Tapper. He is one of the disinformation 12. And oh, boy, let me tell you, we are unpacking the pandemic censorship and so much more. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. This memorial day, I had the privilege to be at depo Bay, Oregon. This is claims to be the smallest port in the world. And indeed, I think it might be this tiny little port with maybe 50 vessels at most, a couple of large coast guard ships, well, large boats anyway, that honored our veterans in the most amazing way. It was a sunny day, the ships gathered. And after they had their ceremony, they did a procession out under the bridge out to the ocean, made a circle. And then a Coast Guard helicopter comes in, drops within the circle, a large reef, and then all the boats put their Reese that they had carried out. These are wreaths honoring not just our veterans, but those who are lost at sea. You know, Newport, depot Bay and all the coast. towns along the Oregon coast have fishing industry. And periodically we lose people to boating accidents and tragedies that are related to poor weather. But I want to focus here also mostly on our veterans, those of you who have veterans in your lives, families who have chosen to serve our country, we've lost over a million in the years of all the various wars. These are sacrifices that were made for us, every single one of us living in America enjoy a level of freedom, not known by very many. What I'm concerned about is that medical boards, public health officials, elected governors, for example, with their various decrees emergency orders have caused a situation where we are now at high risk for losing the freedoms that have been fought for, and sacrificed for for hundreds of years. This is not the time for any of us to just rest on our laurels and think that everything's going to be fine. I do believe that we'll be fine. But it will be fine because we are going to stand and say no to all the forces that are trying to nullify the sacrifices made by those who went to war for us on behalf of the freedoms here in the United States. So it's just a message of hope, a message of freedom, but also a warning that we all stay vigilant. Something is going on. We've all felt it. We've noticed it these past two, three years. And this is not the time to just say oh, things are getting good again. It's time to really make sure we stand for freedom in every possible way. Thanks. I'm Dr. Paul.

Welcome Dr. John Reese, and man you are a guy that I've been wanting to talk to you ever since I stumbled on your book conscious medicine. Thank you. Yeah, you graduated from Loma Linda University Medical School, specialize in psychiatry, you've had an emphasis in functional medicine and have been in private practice in the Loma Linda and Redlands California area for 37 years, which puts us I'm guessing around the same era of medical school training. Out of curiosity, when did you finish medical school? 1981 Okay, yeah, you were a few years ahead of me, then. I remember doing my psychiatry rotation. Thinking that man, this is pretty easy. I mean, in six weeks, I figured out the few meds that we had back then and you know, there was stuff for depression stat stuff for bipolar, well, one or two things. And that was pretty much it. I think they'd gotten away from lobotomies at that point. And of course, we've had the DSM three, then four, then five, that Diagnostic Statistical Manual that's sort of your guys's Bible in psychiatry, and I noticed something about that and I'm going to have you talk about your journey. from mainstream traditional psychiatry training into functional medicine, because I think there's a parallel with my own. But I noticed that manual is all about labels. There's just a list of symptoms, you fit this diagnosis, boom, here's your diagnosis. And then you have based on that, here's these lists of pharmaceutical products to hopefully treat your symptoms. Right.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  5:21  
You know, what's interesting is that in psychiatry is more so than most other parts of medicine, that the diagnosis is just a description. It doesn't in any way, indicate the etiology or the cause, right. And physicians are kind of deluded into thinking they're treating the cause when they're treating the diagnosis. But all they're doing is masking symptoms. Yeah, unfortunately, when they do that, the imbalance is never corrected. And so it's driven deeper into the Constitution. And it manifests itself in other dysfunctions and other organ systems, new diagnoses, a new round of pharmacotherapy.

Dr. Paul  6:02  
I had a for a while I was doing addiction medicine as well. And I had a young lady come in, she was in her early 20s, on seven different psychiatric meds at young 20s. Like, Oh, my word, share, share with our audience a little bit about your journey. I imagine you started off medical school fairly traditional, and somehow you ended up in functional medicine.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  6:23  
Yeah. And in medical school, I just started seeing things that just didn't sound right to me, because when I went into medical school, I thought I was going to become a healing practitioner. But it wasn't about healing at all. It was about managing disease. And when you manage disease, that's exactly what you're going to have. And so it's not it's disguised as healthcare, but it's really sick care. And so I started to you No, look outside that. And most of my colleagues pretty much canceled me when I asked the kinds of questions that sort of challenged the the narrative. So I started to collaborate with chiropractors and nature paths in the surrounding community. And we wouldn't refer to each other. And I started going to Holistic Health conventions, and went to the American Academy of environmental medicine. And then finally, the Institute for Functional Medicine, and start and discovered, this is what healing is all about. It's identifying the imbalance and correcting causes instead of just masking symptoms. And so that's what kind of took me in that direction. And then I was fortunate enough to have a medical group that allowed me the freedom to integrate functional medicine in my practice. And so I didn't get any problems from the doctors that I worked with in that group. But I was getting cancelled by doctors and surrounding community, when I started messing with their patients, and providing some improvement. For example, I had one patient who came to me who was referred to me by a GI doctor to treat for depression. And, and he had this gi disturbance for about two years. And I asked him, Have you ever tried probiotics and digestive enzymes? And he never had, so I suggested try that. He came back about a month later, and all his symptoms were gone. And I got a nasty call from the GI doctor asked me why I was fiddling around with his GI symptoms, he sent him to me to treat for depression. Aren't you happy that he's better? No, it wasn't. Now, on the surface, you might think he was angry because I was taking away his livelihood. You know, now this patient's not going to see me anymore. But it's more fundamental of that. And I think it comes out clearly in your case where the medical board went after you, because they claimed that you were a danger, when in fact, you were improving patients better than the conventional system. So your treatment might treatment, all the doctors that you interview who've been under fire. They're the results they get is an indictment of the sick care system. No one wants to think that they're causing more harm than good. And so what they're doing is actually projecting the harm on to you, when actually they're the ones who are causing it, but it's unconscious. Hmm.

Dr. Paul  9:10  
That brings us to the title of your book, conscious medicine and integral model of healing. I think being conscious, I'd like to hear your take on this. What do you mean when you say conscious medicine versus unconscious medicine?

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  9:26  
Conscious medicine is mindful healing. It's restoring balance by correcting causes instead of masking symptoms. Simple as that? Yeah. And unconscious medicine then is basically conventional Rockefeller Flexner Report type of medicine that that masks symptoms instead of providing cures.

Dr. Paul  9:49  
Yeah. Maybe for our audience because this hasn't come up. Maybe but once in over a year that I've been doing this show. Explain what the Flexner Report was. I think it wasn't at around 1910 Something like that.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  10:01  
Yeah, that's where it was supported by Carnegie and Rockefeller. And basically Flexner went around to all the medical schools and basically decided which ones were legitimate and which ones were quackery. So they closed all the homeopathic and naturopathic schools and have kept open only the allopathic schools that bought into the whole pharmaceutical paradigm.

Dr. Paul  10:25  
Yeah, and poured a lot of money into those schools that would go along with their paradigm. Exactly. Yeah. So you have an interesting description in your book about legitimate science today being replaced by a religion masquerading as science. striking parallels with medieval Dark Ages. Wow, that's a powerful statement. expand upon that a bit.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  10:53  
Well, when you think about it, what happened during the middle of the medieval ages, the the clergy expropriated reason, and disallowing man to think for himself. So they were the arbiters of truth. They were the Ministry of Truth. And they decided what people were to believe? Well, in our current day, the scientific clergy have expropriated the senses, and forbidding man to see for himself. They're saying, quote, We cannot believe our own eyes. And so they this whole thing about post hoc reasoning, that if a person improves from an intervention, you can't possibly know that was a result of the intervention. Okay, but the thing is, is if that's the truth, and we don't know that any of the approved treatments are the result of the intervention, either, it could still be placebo. So it's, so you have to be able to use your mind and follow patients systematically. You apply a treatment, they get well, you stopped the treatment, they get worse, putting back on the treatment, they do better again. I mean, that's that's the scientific method. But people think that if they apply a proven treatment obligatory that that's being scientific, it's not that's having faith in the studies. That's that's basically religion. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  12:13  
Now, your your explanation took me right back to when I woke up to what was going on with autism. It was a thing that was so rare. I imagine when you were in medical school, do you remember seeing a single case of autism? No, no, I didn't either. I came by about three, four years after you and not a single case, when they wanted to teach us about disability and children, they sent us to a community of Down's kids. There, it just really wasn't around. So for me, it was in the early 2000s. It just exploded, and I ended up in my own practice having one case per year 2004 Or five, six, and seven. And it was just like, Okay, I can't keep doing business as usual. Have a normal one year old who's starting to talk has great eye contact, just regressing to nonverbal, spinning, and flapping and pain and GI symptoms. And, and, and just say, Oh, well, sorry, your kid has autism. Good luck. It just, it's insane that pediatricians, I imagined psychiatry and pediatrics overlaps a little bit in this area, actually. We're left with well try this in a psychotic or yeah, just nuts.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  13:22  
You know, it's funny, because I've talked to one of our PT, the pediatric psychiatrists at Loma Linda and I was mentioned to him the connection between vaccines and autism, and he completely dismissed that said that, you know, well, the autism that usually begins about the same time period, it has nothing to do with the vaccines. So, in my mind, this is the the church of vaccinology. It's a religion. Yeah. Because they don't allow debate. They shut it all down. It's very dogmatic. And it's like, it's a doctrine that you cannot challenge.

Dr. Paul  13:56  
Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's actually why I've been threatened with my license. The funny story behind that you may have heard it. They've been asking me since I wrote the book, vaccine friendly plan in 2016. But 2018 actually was February 2019. They they sent me a board request to prove that the CD that my vaccine friendly plan approach was as safe as the CDC schedule that promoted me to do a quality assurance project of every patient, born in my practice, published that data in a peer reviewed journal and five days after it was available online. They yanked my license as a threat to public health. We had incredible outcomes in the unpacked which was actually, it was a little shocking to me that the vaccine friendly plan, which is much safer, but even that was just horrible compared to unboxed. So,

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  14:47  
again, that's an indictment of the sick care system. Yep. Absolutely. It exposed the weakness of the whole paradigm.

Dr. Paul  14:55  
Absolutely. share with our viewers. So many people today With, for various reasons are suffering from what is traditionally called psychiatric problems, be it depression, anxiety, etc. Right? share briefly what you have found in functional psychiatry to be very helpful for folks who are struggling.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  15:15  
Well, functional psychiatry, basically you do lifestyle interventions, and basic, assessing their diet, their nutrition, their exposure and exposure to toxic chemicals and so forth. And so some of the things that I've done is to evaluate, for example, is this person a good methylator. So I'll do you know, the the homocysteine tests, and the, the genetic test to see you know, how well they methylate. And, you know, if they come back as being deficient, then I'll, you know, recommend that they, you know, take nutritional support. Other instances, I'll check, a body burdened with toxic heavy metals. And I did a study of 100 cases, and virtually every single person had significant high levels of mercury and lead. And so basically, you know, recommend detoxification protocols that clean all that up. And as patients will do these kinds of things, all their medical problems, whether it be diabetes, or heart disease, or whatever starts to improve. Because basically, when you're intervening at the level of the system, all these other manifestations of dysfunction start to clear up.

Dr. Paul  16:28  
Isn't that amazing? How, I mean, it's simple. It's not easy, right? Lifestyle changes are the hardest thing of all, giving up our soda or cigarettes, if you're a smoker, or alcohol, if you're a drinker, or trying to eat real wholesome food, etc. But it's simple. You just have to do it. And you're seeing I imagined amazing results.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  16:49  
Yeah, but the thing is, it's, it's frustrating, because a lot of the, for example, nutritional supplements, they're not covered by insurance. And a lot of patients in my practice just don't have a lot of discretionary income. So if it's not covered by insurance, a lot of them wouldn't do it, and basically never got better. It's the ones who went ahead and decided to invest in their health are the ones who actually got better.

Dr. Paul  17:11  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You have to buy in and realize that our health folks, never before has it been more important is in our own hands, you cannot go to a traditional doctor. Allopathic, regular MD and expect to regain regular health if you're not healthy.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  17:30  
You know, and I think when you're doing that kind of work, you need to be an example of what you're preaching. Yeah. So you need to be in good health yourself and incorporate all these lifestyle measures that you're preaching your patients to.

Dr. Paul  17:42  
That's so true. I only had successes, I was having success in my own life to some extent. You have a term in your book, the insanity of humanity, and I can't remember what you were referring to.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  17:55  
Well, Carl Jung said that the man is the great danger unconscious man. Because basically, man is in search of a soul. And he does all these things to destroy his home, the environment in which we live. And this that kind of thing is insanity. Why would any person destroy that the home that they live in? And yet, that's, that's what we're doing? And then the way that we treat one another, the way we treat our own bodies, all this stuff is basically insanity. It's, you think about all the wars that we've created, all the millions of people who've been killed. And this, this is considered normal. You know, so the insanity is essentially the psychopathology of the average. It's, it's, it's so ubiquitous, that people don't even notice it. Because it's considered normal.

Dr. Paul  18:49  
How would you talk about the COVID thing we've been through the last couple years with that in mind?

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  18:56  
Well, that COVID really exposed everything I talked to my, my book, but on steroids. I mean, I couldn't believe it. But the other thing that it introduced, though, is how palpable the evil was. It's not just insanity, there's, there's something evil to it. It's a spiritual war that we're in. And it comes back to this notion, well, then conscious healing is really a spiritual practice. It's all about bringing people back into harmony and balance with the environment, with their fellow man and with within themselves. And that's essentially what we need to focus on.

Dr. Paul  19:30  
So Dr. John, you've touched on something that's been huge in my life the last couple of years, and this whole mention of the soul and the spiritual aspect of who we are. I think I had a lot from I don't think I know I had lost touch with my own soul. being so busy being a doctor and sure I was doing some good work, but I was on a treadmill and speak briefly about how one gets back in touch with their soul and with what's important

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  19:59  
Well, I guess every person sort of has to find their own way. You know, it's gonna require a journey inward. And, you know, I had been under fire quite a bit during my practice. So I spent the 15 years doing research and reflecting and writing this book. And so you have to take time off away from you know, the treadmill, you have to get off that and just start doing some inner work. Journeying inward reflecting, if you don't do that, you're just going to burn out. And so many, you know, physicians I've run into have left the practice of medicine, they've started other careers, because they just couldn't take it anymore. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  20:47  
I think for even non medical people, anybody living in this world today with the stresses that the COVID, the response to COVID really was what created most of the stress, the quarantines, the masking, the fear mongering, that there was just relentless focus, we all have got to take that time, as Dr. John says, and go inward, and be in touch with our real selves. I like something that you have in your book, I think I'd like you to expand on it a little bit, you talk about a health continuum. And I was wondering if you might sort of share a little bit about what that is and how you came to understanding that.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  21:25  
So the health continuum is really shows levels of health or life balance, function versus dysfunction. So I came across this kind of continuum early on when I was going to some of the holistic health conventions. And if you see there's a red dashed line between the four and number five, so everything below that red dashed line is what conventional medicine is concerned with. And generally, you come into a physician, let's say, with a full syndrome at level two, and you're diagnosed with the disease and you're put on pharmacotherapy, such as, say diabetes mellitus, first diagnosis, or you might have partial symptoms, and you come in at the substance drummer level, let's say you're diagnosed with metabolic syndrome, which is sort of like a precursor, you still get on pharmaceuticals. And when you are taking drugs, it's all it's doing is suppressing symptoms. So you might feel well, but that's an artifact of symptom suppression. And that degenerative process is not resolved. And what happens is it progresses until relapse, or a new diagnosis appears. So the imbalance is not corrected, it is quiescent. And if you intervene above that red dashed line, you use basically health interventions, such as lifestyle prescriptions to enhance physiologic reserve, rejuvenate the body, and finally achieve the vitalised level, which is optimum genetic potential. Now, at this level, you have more resilience, you're able to fight off infections, you have better immunity against cancer and things like that. At this level, there's actually the body's more ordered, there's more, more complexity. And you can actually do physiological measures like heart rate variability, which indicate these higher levels. But below that red line, you're basically managing disease, it's sick care, and you have a loss of complexity. I get into this, I revisit this chart in my chapter on complexity, science and systems medicine. And what's interesting is that each one of these levels is also a level of physiologic setpoint, which means that it involves a state attractor around which fluctuation self organize. So as you go up the this health continuum, there's more order, there's more complexity and requires more energy. So it's really important to be able to make enough ATP to maintain that high level, which is far from equilibrium. It's a dynamic steady state, you go down in the other direction, you're reaching thermodynamic equilibrium. So what conventional medicine does, is they suppress symptoms, and by doing so, they may delay entry into the disability zone, they may actually postpone death, but it the end result is it's slow assisted suicide, because they're not doing anything about correcting the underlying imbalance.

Dr. Paul  24:42  
This is so important, folks. Let's, let's pivot over to your slide on quantity versus quality. When it comes to your life, vitality and health versus disability,

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  24:55  
yeah, okay. So, you know, most of the time we measure health outcomes in terms of The longevity, okay, that's the quantity of life. But what's really important is your quality of life. And so, lifespan, which is only quantity, it's one dimensional. But healthspan is two dimensional includes the quality of life. So whereas lifespan is the longevity of existence, healthspan is longevity of vitality. And that's what's important. That's what keeps you above the disability zone. So in this example, here, the red line descending downward is what you get with conventional health care versus conventional sick care. But if you make a health intervention, which is a lifestyle prescription, somewhere around midlife, you can actually extend the health span the amount of time the person spends above the disability zone. And that has enormous economic savings, both in terms of the person's health as also the fact that they can continue working.

Dr. Paul  26:00  
Yeah, I'm thinking for people to really have this have impact. Think about something like caring for your children or grandchildren or your loved ones, or just to hit guys where it really counts, being sexually able to function, right? You follow that red line, and most men are impotent or have erectile dysfunction by age 50 to 60. You do a lifestyle integration, you might be fine until your 80s. Exactly. And it goes for just about any health condition, wellness and vitality is served by the type of measures that you talk about in your book. So exciting. So exciting. So you have some interesting perspective on evidence based medicine, you know, we MDS are held to this standard. I mean, I'm being challenged by the medical board, monthly, pretty much on something that all boils down to what they consider to be the standard of care, let's say,

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  27:04  
this gets a little complicated, I'll try to explain it. But basically, evidence based medicine is essentially saying, Okay, we're going to apply treatments that have been proven in clinical research, where you do a double blind, placebo controlled crossover study. And that gives you really robust data. And you can be certain that that treatment, that remedy is objective, and it's it's proven that the problem is is the the fallacy is to assume that that proven this is a a trait of the medication that then achieves a life of its own can follow anywhere. No, it's relative to the context in which it was done. So it's a state dependent. This the, let me say the, the empirical signature of that remedy is dependent upon the context. But what we do is we take that and we transfer it to the clinical situation and apply it reductionistic Lee, as if now you have to treat your patient with this. With this remedy, even though many of the patients didn't respond in the in the research setting, you have to do a little bit better than placebo. But what about all the patients who didn't respond? Are they supposed to still get that same treatment? It doesn't make any sense?

Dr. Paul  28:23  
Or worse yet, who had terrible side effects?

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  28:25  
Right, exactly. And so there's some people that really looked at this in detail. And what they've discovered is that the clinical research setting represents a well structured problem that just requires a simple solution, which is very definitive. Either the treatment is better than placebo, or it's not. But in a clinical situation, that's an ill structured situation, that requires a completely different inquiring system, that where the the results are not as clear, and that you have to kind of weigh among a number of different perspectives. And so to try to apply a reductionistic really, the the research remedy to a clinical situation, you have to reduce the clinical situation to a caricature of itself. So every person is treated all alike with the same diagnosis. There is no individuality, no biochemical diversity, which is ridiculous. So this is the problem with standardized medicine is that everyone with the same diagnosis is treated the same way. It's a one size fits all. Same thing with the vaccine mandates, one size fits all for everybody.

Dr. Paul  29:35  
Yep. An example from the vaccine world with that we saw with COVID, but they've been doing this for almost all vaccines, and actually, most pharmaceuticals, this concept of absolute risk reduction versus relative risk reduction, or you could get the benefit of a pharmaceutical but it's just a relative benefit. They don't show you that it's making only 1% difference, or in the case of the COVID vaccines. It was is actually protecting about 1% or a little less than that. But they've been like, oh, no, that risk reduction is 95% when it was a relative risk reduction, which was just playing with numbers,

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  30:10  
right, exactly. Yeah, no, no, no, the thing I wanted to mention, so I don't forget is that what another thing that really disturbed me about my medical indoctrination was that it wasn't just about your license wasn't just about what you can prescribe was also about prescription, what you weren't allowed to do. Say, and if you did any of those things, then you get under fire. I spent some time with a chiropractor in our community, and he was doing the Gerson therapy. So I learned all about the Gerson therapy from him. And interestingly, I visited a professor of anthropology at the University of Wisconsin, Arizona, and he was diagnosed with bladder cancer. And they were going to remove his bladder. And I told him about the Gerson therapy, and his wife gave them the book on how to do it, his wife implemented that cured him of his bladder cancer. Okay, but coming back to that, you know, it's it's, I talked to this chiropractor, and he was saying, you know, if you want to do all this stuff, just become a minister. You can do there's no license for them to take away.

Dr. Paul  31:23  
Yeah. Now it's a it's a very strange world, where how do we wake up our peers? Because I feel like the the COVID expose the fact to me, that the sick care system, our current medical system is so broken. I think you mentioned this in your book. I don't know that we can fix it, we have to do something parallel. And how do we reach the people who are stuck in that system to say, Hey, folks, there's a better way?

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  31:53  
Well, you know, you know, I finished this book in tune 2019 before COVID. And, and I talk about, you know, how we can kind of base medicine on more of a complexity science and get away from this reductionistic Newtonian paradigm is completely outdated. And then in the epilogue, I talk about some practical ways that we might be able to do this, but but since COVID, I agree with you, I think the system is broken, and it cannot be fixed. It's been completely hijacked by corporations that care more about profits and about people. So I think we have to take Buckminster Fuller's advice, and to create an alternative system makes the current one obsolete. And a lot of people are actually in the works of doing that. Not just with medicine, but with a finance system. Agriculture, economics all that.

Dr. Paul  32:47  
Yeah. Yeah, there's been an interest in PMAs. private membership associations is one mechanism whereby, if, you know, you can have grocery stores that are private membership, because we could potentially get shut out of the ability to shop in the big stores. Right? If you don't have the right ID. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Very interesting. Well, giving you the Florida wrap it up. Dr. John, tell, tell our audience, what's on your heart?

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  33:19  
Well, you know, I think that by as I said, we're in a spiritual war. And we have to ask ourselves, what really matters as material wealth, that important, you know, having a fancy car that a nice home is all that really important. No, no, it's not. And I think that what we have to do is start reevaluating our values. So it's, there's so much fighting over what people believe. We need to put all that aside and ask what we value. That's what's most important, what we value, not what we believe. And so we have to be able to have more tolerance, and start to put our energies towards rebuilding a system that's based upon integrity, and these values.

Dr. Paul  34:09  
And how do we open the eyes? If that's even possible? Probably that's the wrong way to go about it. How can we attract people who have family members who, though my own mom, and she loves me like nobody else? Well, Paul, how could you possibly be right? And everybody else is wrong, thinking about the other doctors who are, you know, pushing the COVID vaccine as as a example?

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  34:34  
Well, you know, I'm one of two doctors at my local community hospital, they have not been vaccinated. Everyone else has been vaccinated. And unfortunately, you know, as Mark Twain said, it's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled. So, a lot of times when you present this information, people resist it because they don't want to believe they've been duped. I'm hoping that you know that my The book can be read by people and looking at the whole philosophical foundation of medicine and maybe start a dialogue, and maybe start constructing a new narrative. So I'm hoping to, you know, I'm thinking right now to design a whole PowerPoint program that's based on my book and start presenting the Educate the physicians.

Dr. Paul  35:25  
That's, that's a wonderful idea. I'll have you back on when you get that PowerPoint ready, you are onto something that is so so important, and your voice needs to be heard. Thank you for coming on the show against the wind doctors and science under fire.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  35:39  
Thank you for having me.

Dr. Paul  35:40  
It's been a real pleasure and a privilege.

Dr. John Riesenman, MD  35:43  
Oh, my pleasure is mine.

Dr. Paul  35:50  
Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire. I have been wanting to have you on the show, you have the distinguished qualification of being one of the disinformation 12. So when I saw your name on that list and go, Man, What's this guy doing? It certainly appears to me and to those who are paying attention to what's going on in our world, that the people being labeled as promoting misinformation or disinformation are probably the people we ought to listen to. So I've been wanting to get you on the show. Just briefly, tell our audience a little bit about your background. And maybe how you got to be on that list.

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  36:34  
Yeah, well, first of all, I just want to say thank you for having me, first of all, and I'm just really excited to be sitting down with you. Because you know, you are one of those Doc's that I really just have a ton of respect for. Because you know, you are a true physician, a doctor with integrity, and you know, you're not wavering your beliefs to, you know, you're not cowering and conforming to the tyranny that's in the world today. And you're just you're making a stand for true health. And so I just I really respect doctors like you. And you know, and I'm just like to say that I'm one of those doctors as well, doctrinal integrity that's made a stand. Yeah, you know, I come from a family of chiropractors, and, and my dad has been speaking out against, you know, the vaccine corruption since the 70s. And basically, he passed that baton on to me when he retired. But, you know, even before I got into practice, he would always educate me on vaccinations and this corruption, and we I was never vaccinated, nor my brother nor sister. And, you know, so that was my childhood growing up. And, and I really got a lot of attention, obviously, early on, but we would put on vaccine workshops prior to 2020. And, you know, and I listened to a lecture, excuse me, I listen to a lecture from a doctor in 2008. And he talks about the corruption of the manipulation of data at the National Vital reporting system for the CDC. And he would talk about how they always just they throw comer comorbidities in the death count with influenza. And, you know, and so, and 90% of the deaths are usually in the elderly. And I thought that was very interesting. And he had all those stats printed off. And so I've been following a close eye to those stats. I've been following those stats for over a decade. And when Corona had I said, all those numbers, they were being manipulated even more, and they implemented us up and disappeared. And, and, and then so I started speaking out early on and, and in 20, in the fall of 2020, in August, I spoke out at the council, and within 24 hours, that video had 3 million views viral and it said just because people are starving for the truth and yeah, you know, and and, and that's basically what put me on the map. It put me on that list the disinformation but the disinformation doesn't but but anyway, that's kind of my story and so on.

Dr. Paul  38:52  
Yeah. So you have

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  38:54  
four children. What are their ages? I have Ophelia. She's 11. And Owen is going to be 10. And then Olson is six and Aslan is for their my Cheerios.

Dr. Paul  39:04  
Wow. And I'm guessing they're not vaccinated. No, they're

not. No,

I'm guessing they're very healthy.

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  39:11  
They are very healthy. Thanks, Lord. Yes, yeah.

Dr. Paul  39:15  
Amazing. Right now, you grew up in that world that I think the chiropractors have been fairly steadfast in as a discipline, you know, as an as a group understanding the risks of vaccines, and more so than any other group of doctors. So you have probably had a career at both watching your own father's career in practice and then your own, of being able to care for large numbers of people who are unvaccinated. Tell me a little bit about what that was like. What what did you see in this unvaccinated population that was supposedly at such great risk of infections because they weren't vaccinated?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  39:56  
Right? Well, you know, we'd always talk about you know, the importance of healthy life. styles and making healthy choices and your level of health is the genetic expression or the innate expression of how we eat, how we move how we think. So teaching the moms to live healthy lifestyles, and that will, you know, that will portray on to the children and the children will express healthy lifestyles as well, they follow that the choices the parents make, but you know, just seeing the children in the clinic living a natural style of health, they're just, they're better off, they're healthier. They don't have the ear infections, they don't have all this chronic illness that normal kids have. And, and, you know, I just like you, I know you, you really more than I have really put your data out there. In the clinical data to show there is a significant difference in these children, the vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups. And, you know, we saw that in our clinic as well. You know, we had parents and especially to start getting your name out there and start speaking out, the parents that have vaccinating your children come to you for help, because they're not getting that help in the, in the medical world. They're not getting, they're getting gaslighted. And they're they're getting written off or I was a genetic type issue. There's nothing you can do. And that's just not true, as bad as really just bad. Science. And it's terrible bedside manners. And it's not an it's not true Helms. And so it was, it was a very, it was a privilege to be able to see those kids and help moms find the truth. And I tell you, there's nothing more satisfying is when you have a mom or a soon to be Mom, listen to you. Take your advice. And then they are so grateful that they listened to you. And they show you that appreciation and they become like family. And that's what's really a joy.

Dr. Paul  41:46  
Yeah, absolutely. How many kids would you say you've taken care of in your career?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  41:51  
Well, I would say a third of my practice was a pediatric practice. And so and so we had, I mean, goodness, you know, we averaged about 300 visits a week. And so a third of that about 100 of those were kids. And so yeah, so that I practiced that way for 10 years. And so

Dr. Paul  42:11  
most of those kids were unvaccinated. I would say,

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  42:15  
you know, probably close to 70% are unvaccinated.

Dr. Paul  42:21  
Okay, in that group, just to kind of pull your experience because I don't get to talk to too many doctors who have a large population of unvaccinated kids. How many kids in your unvaccinated population had autism or other chronic conditions?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  42:36  
I've never had a single one have autism that was on vaccinated. Yep. And so that's just the numbers. That's this there, you know. And it's, it's, it's, you know, and I've had moms come in and vaccinated their first two kids, and then they didn't vaccinate the other two, they're likely to have a tool for the vaccinated to the vaccine next to, and they will tell you that the unvaccinated kids are healthier. They see it firsthand. Yeah, you know, they, they hit through milestones sooner, they are speaking sooner. They they're just healthier. You know, and even on the vaccine inserts, if you look at you know, on page six were most adverse reactions or label on the inserts, they'll tell you like, you know, all the conditions and side effects, these vaccines and otitis media is on there, and they're inflammatory in the in the ears and, and everything else. That's why we had this explosion of ear infections and nobody wanted. Nobody wants to talk about the elephant in the room and how inflammatory these vaccines are, you know, so

Dr. Paul  43:31  
now I think that's why the VAX annex data is so critical, because the CDC, the NIH health plans even nobody was looking at total health outcomes comparing vaccinated unvaccinated. And so when I go around speaking, and I present, that data is just mind blowing, and you've lived it. And so it's it's your total experience that yes, these unvaccinated kids are so much healthier, when nobody wants to listen to us.

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  43:58  
Right, you know, and I, my biggest thing is, you know, like I talked about, like a car crash school, we just got hammered with a nervous system, like just drilled on the nervous system, and, you know, developing the nervous system. And so I took that and went with Clinical Immunology and just, you know, and I apply it, you know, the physiology to it. And in my study, like I found that these vaccinations, they're, they're really they're bypassing away, the body's immune system really operates and it's really so invasive. If you look at from a microscopic view on on them, just the needle penetrating the skin, it creates an incident like, you know, almost an inflammatory response, and it triggers a wrong wrong immunoglobulin. You know, we have this immunoglobulin e response right away, and we're the CDC and everybody else is like all it takes two weeks for your body to develop the right antibodies and immunity to this vaccine. But what's really occurring is that we have this inflammatory process and immunoglobulin immunoglobulin E is triggered releasing histamine, which when histamine is released that allows the blood brain barrier to be permeable allowing all this junk adjuvants and everything else to penetrate in the nervous system and causing inflammation and cause other major problems. And in nobody's talking about that, and it's a it's really concerning because I believe truly believe once we understand this and get this information to the masses, we're gonna look back and be like, Oh my gosh, we used to vaccinate to the skin and used to cause all these problems. And then the media and the CDC, they're just covering up. It's just like a frontal lobotomies we did to the 50s. Like, we look back, like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe we should do that. Well, once we really look at how invasive these vaccinations truly are, I truly believe that we're going to look back and realize one day, how invasive they are.

Dr. Paul  45:39  
Yeah. It's unfortunate to me that this world we live in today where the paradigm is, vaccines are safe and effective, we need pharma to survive. Where would we be without vaccines without pharma, when in fact, you know, stories like yours, your own personal experience, your family, your practice, where you focus on health and nutrition and supporting the immune system naturally, and you don't disrupt the natural order of the immune system with vaccines, you have incredible outcomes. But we need a new paradigm. How are we going to get there?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  46:14  
Right? Well, I think we need to just respect each paradigms that we all operate in, there's a massive purpose for the allopathic paradigm, there's a massive and it saves lives, it really does. But you know, vaccines, I in my opinion, really don't necessarily fit into the wellness and prevention paradigm. And so we need to up the walls that prevention paradigm is, is very much present. I mean, Benjamin Franklin said, An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But we need to recognize that there really, pharmaceuticals have no place in a wellness and prevention paradigm. pharmaceuticals are much very much needed. But they're they don't really fit into that paradigm. And so that's where I knew in the wells that progression paradigm is, is basically teaching people how to eat well move well think well relate well. And we can be well, and again, and if we need an allopathic intervention, that's thank the Lord for that. Because, you know, the allopathic world, or the the or the doctors have of that emergency character, the trauma care, and they are the experts, the doctors are the experts, and very much we all have a certain place. And so that's my, my really understanding of how we get there just really educating and not, you know, how you say it sensor, the docs that are speaking out into the walls prevention paradigm? And yeah,

Dr. Paul  47:31  
we need both for sure. I think the emphasis could shift towards wellness, and we would be way better off. But yeah, if you need an appendectomy, or emergency C section, or, you know, some trauma you've been in, we're in the best system in the world for that sort of care. Right? What's your take on COVID? And what are you telling your patients or your loved ones?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  47:57  
Oh, man, that's a loaded question. Well, so you know, I, there's so much to this, because, you know, I saw this early on, you know, I've been, we had a talk in November of, of 2019. You know, we had the early on in 2019. I believe that it foreshadow the pandemic, you have the ACI p, which is a subdivision of the CDC talk about how, you know, they can't force vaccinate, but of course, compliance. Well, I that raises the question, well, how are they going to do that? Right. You know, and then you have the World Health Organization early on, say that the greatest threat to the World Health are those who question or refuse vaccinations, then you have easily heavy VAT to a one, which is super weird. And then you have all this stuff going down. Okay, so in fall, and none, let alone the legislation. If you looked at all the legislation, all the bills that were being implemented, that were very draconian in nature, like the SB 277, under the California that pass, and all these other bills that were sweeping the nation, like in Maine, and and I believe that Mississippi, but if you have, you know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there's something coming our way. And so I spoke out in November of 2019 ice and I held a seminar and I said something big is coming our way. We need to be proactive in this fight. We need to stay alert. Well, if then while the crony baloney hidden 2020 And basically, is when I had another seminar in February, I said, This is it. This is the Trojan horse and funnels legislation, this is what they're gonna do. And so I came off as a nutty loon to all of my family and a lot of my patients. I mean, I think I lost a third of my patience because I was very vocal in this fight. And then I was talking about the PCR test how it's not meant to be diagnostic, and there's a lot of questions there with a PCR test. And you know, and, you know, then I had, I'd have, you know, people come up to me and say, Listen, I had a lady reached out to me, he said, My husband was in a mortgage coach died of a motorcycle accident and they they labeled it as COVID. So there was just all these stories that were really weird. are coming our way. But, you know, again, a lot of there was a lot of people like listening to me, but they weren't saying anything they weren't speaking out, they were just listening. And, you know, my family, unfortunately, a lot of my, my in laws, they just, they don't even talk to me now. They work in the hospital, and they just they think I'm crazy. Yeah, you know, but, but what I would tell my patients is that there's nothing to fear one of my great mentors. So that fear is the fire that fuels the furnace of disease. And if we are in a fearful state, we are in a sympathetic state, which is going to be leave us vulnerable, vulnerable for disease. And so, and that's why I think it's criminal that if we're in a pandemic, why is there a constant death count on the media? NASAT 20, for our death count, all you're doing is you're almost breeding this fear mongering state with the people causing the panic. I mean, I've had patients that have a common cold, and they freak out, like, I need to go to the hospital like this day at home. You're okay. If the media wasn't portraying this beat in the COVID drum, you just be just fine. And you recover in a couple days. Yeah, nothing to fear here. You know, and we know now that there's a lot of this stuff coming out from Desert of your house faulty, and that the protocols are was killing people. It's not the not COVID.

Dr. Paul  51:06  
And what was your experience in your practice with COVID?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  51:11  
I mean, again, early on in the COVID, I lost a third of my people, but you know, I, I didn't really they left the practice, they love to practice because I wasn't following. I wasn't complying to the mandate. And and I don't mean, any disrespect to anybody that was following the guidelines. I mean, you know, I just chose to be stubborn. And I was, I didn't wear a mask and I and I had to put my hands on it was what I do for a living, I put my hands on every patient, so I had to violate one of their guidelines. So I said, I'm not it's childish. I'm not going to do this. And

Dr. Paul  51:48  
I imagine you and your staff got COVID. And a lot of your patients did,

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  51:53  
right? No, well, honestly, man, none of us. I didn't get sick once, during the whole pandemic. And you know, that's what I spoke out to against the city council. I said, Listen, I've been seeing patients, two or 300 patients a week here at night, and I come in close proximity. And I don't wear a mask, and I've yet to get sick. I mean, I mean, I asked the question, how many people do I have to see for the contagion claim is mathematically impossible? You know what I mean? Yeah, so. But that being said, and I would, I would tell patients, like there's nothing there's fear, and I would, you know, blaming the disease on a droplet is really like blaming the flies for the trash. And, you know, if this germ theory were really true, we'd all be dead. That's not to say that germs can cause a problem, or issues in the body, but blaming us I mean, I tell people if they're sick, or I'm coming to just sit or do this, and that I'm not afraid of this. And I never got sick. And I honestly, truth be told, I actually would have a ton of patients come in and they said, Well, I've got I just test tested positive for COVID, today or yesterday. And I said, Well, you're doing the best thing you can right now it's come see me, and I never got sick. This is one of those things where that might actually challenge some people's belief systems, but but it's really just, you know, live a healthy lifestyle. And that's what I do try to be new away from that toxicity deficiency in the purity insufficiency. And we can be well, nothing, nothing to fear. Now, you know, if you're elderly and vulnerable, if you have other comorbidities going on, you're more likely to get sick. And that's, that's, that's a fact. But going back to the Spanish flu, 100 years ago, there's so many parallels that we're running to this day there, you know, I have an article hanging in my office that I bought, you know, 10 years ago about Spanish flu. I talked about how much manipulation of data was occurring back then. And how the media was pushing us fear mongering. And the article even stated that they're, you know, about mask because they're pushing mask, and I have pictures of people wear masks or go to jail is like this virtue signaling going on. And, you know, the, the article, the author stated, there's a there's a hawk fence, keep up mosquitoes referring to the virus, and it was comical, but that means that I digress. But it was just, it's just there's so many parallels going on and where history is literally repeating itself. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  54:04  
absolutely. Well, what burning thoughts would you like to share with my audience?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  54:13  
Well, the biggest thing is obviously, you know, do your homework when it comes to these vaccines. And, you know, coercion is not consent. And that's a big thing that I see across the board. That's what's that, what that's one thing that does fuels, my fire and it like, it makes my blood pressure rise is when I have patients come out of the PDF pediatricians office and they said that the pediatrician has said, you know, your, your child's gonna die if you don't get this hepatitis B vaccine, or your child's gonna die if you don't get this shot, and that's really terrible.

Dr. Paul  54:43  
Yeah. If you've been talking about a newborn born to a mom who does not have hepatitis B, that newborn is not going to die if they don't get that shot.

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  54:50  
Right, exactly. Right. You know, and that's where, you know, excuse me, you know, that's why I love doctors like you. You tell the truth and you care about the patient. And if you're not going to use fear mongering, if you feel a check in your spirit that you're you're being coerced to do something that's going against your beliefs or, or anything like that you should leave that office immediately. There's nothing to fear when it comes to this, we need to understand that God may your your baby and your immune system be well, if you give the body what it needs, you can be well, and you know, overcoming diseases, like Corona is far greater than anyone including Dr. Fauci as it permitted us to believe, you know, and so treat the body well, and your body will treat you. Well.

Dr. Paul  55:33  
Super. And one last question for you. I'm going to give you a tough one here. So what do you recommend? Or have you seen helpful for people who are vaccine injured, especially the COVID-19 shots?

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  55:48  
Well, you know, when the COVID go into the COVID vaccine, I'm telling people to fast, you know, especially if you have a really, really acute injury. I mean, fasting is I would recommend, but also some, if it's a serious situation, like, you know, there's some people that have major injuries from this. And fasting is not going to do them any good. But I think, you know, I tell people to fast, I've been telling people to detox the best they can. But this shot is different. It's not your typical vaccine. And so I feel like we are very early on in this vaccine have seen what this is going to do to people. I mean, there's, there's already I've seen data and literature with that talk about the myocarditis that's occurring. So obviously, any inflammation, you know, avoid inflammatory foods, get your or your omega threes up to help combat the Omega six nine ratios helps. So to help the inflammatory process in the body, take some, you know, natural anti inflammatories in the body, but avoid the sugar, the alcohol, the inflammatory foods, obviously, and that's kind of my angle of of things, you know, but going outside of that is, you know, you're going to see different things with this vaccine. It's the technology, this is something we've never seen before. And they want to basically incorporate all vaccines eventually to be mRNA to have a vaccine technology, which is terrifying to me. Absolutely. Terrifying. Yeah. So Well,

Dr. Paul  57:14  
thank you for that. Let you have the closing words. I really appreciate your time. Yeah,

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  57:20  
well, doc file. I just appreciate you I appreciate us. I mean, the time is now for us to stand and not be complacent. I mean, Martin Luther Chang stated that, you know, Martin Luther King Jr. said that the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands at times of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. Now's not the time to be complacent. Now's not the time to conform to the narrative here. Now's the time to be bold and courageous to stand our ground, to be the salt and light of the earth. And you know, we must not fear persecution, we are going to be persecuted, but we must welcome it every time you anybody in history that took a stand for truth was with face persecution, okay. But our convictions must be greater than our complacency, to speak the truth because the soil for truth right now is rich, the people are starving for it. God demands it and our family deserves it. So,

Dr. Paul  58:15  
Amen, brother. Amen. That is a very powerful closing statement. Thank you so much for coming on our show. And I can't wait to see you in the real real flesh one of these days. Yeah. Thanks

Dr. Ben Tapper, DC  58:25  
so much, Paul. Take care. God bless you too, buddy. God bless.

Dr. Paul  58:34  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show, PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you helped me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai