​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Pol and against the wind doctors and science under fire. This show is slightly different. I'm being interviewed. I'm going to cover the topics of RSV, influenza and COVID. What's going on? What do you need to know? And how can you be prepared for this upcoming winter, we're all three are hitting it once Bernadette closes us out with a very interesting take on the mindset of those in public health. They minimize vaccine dangers. They promote vaccine efficacy, and they maximize disease risk, completely distorting the actual information that's out there. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I'm going to talk to you about gratitude today. And first and foremost, I am grateful for you. Your support means the world to me, I'm going to share a card I got from a patient recently that just exemplifies the importance of this to meet Dr. Thomas, I want you to know how much our family appreciates you. Thank you for caring deeply for the health and well being of all the families who have been under your care. Thank you for being bold, and for shining a light in this dark world. I am so sorry for the disappointment, pushback, hatred and heartbreak that you've had to go through. But I praise God for how he is using you to stand up for truth. I can only imagine how hard in every way it is to do this. So my prayer for you is that you will remain and God's steadfast love, His love and promises that will never shake or crumble. No matter what enemy you are facing. That you will seek His wisdom and take pause to hear his voice. I pray that God will protect you and your family fiercely give you courage to do what he is asking and be filled with great joy. Thank you, Dr. Thomas. And they share their names. Who that touches me. And I have to tell you, this is one of probably hundreds, if not 1000 Such cards and letters and sentiments. And it's kept me going through these difficult times. And I am so grateful for all of you who support me. It gives me that steadfast, we're together. We're never giving up because we are being called to do something magnificent that our world is calling us to do. So thank you

welcome folks against the wind. Didi Hoover joins me in studio. What the heck are you doing here?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  2:43  
Well, I am here because I'm the one as you know, that gets all the emails. And I have to tell everyone, first of all, this is our second time doing this. And you did a very good job the first time, I thought you did a good job of you. Thank you. So we get a lot of support. And I wanted to say that you have so much love and so much support coming in. And I know i i holler from one office to the other to you about that support. We also get a lot of questions. And right now, there's a huge amount of questions about this triple Dimick, this triple pandemic that's going on right now. And that is RSV, flu, and COVID a huge hit right now. So I just want to ask you some questions. And the first thing I want to talk about is RSV. So I would like to to explain what that is. And tell me about because we've been getting a ton of patients in and I think we've had one in our clinic here, even hospitalized this year. So I'd like for you to talk a little bit about RSV. People keep asking some of the questions about RSV are, you know, what do I need to look for? When do I need to see a doctor? And do the main one is you're talking about it is if they get a vaccine, should I run out and get this vaccine?

Dr. Paul  3:54  
Thank you for that question. I'm going to start with the last thing you mentioned. If they come up with an RSV vaccine, should you run out and get it? No. Here's why. They are trying to make an RSV vaccine on the mRNA platform, folks, they've been trying to do this for two decades. And they failed because of the nature of mRNA platform. It's just not been possible to make it work for viruses that mutate very quickly. That's why it failed for COVID it will fail for RSV for the same reason it has failed. They have this thing called immune enhancement that happens with that form of vaccination. And in the early trials they did for RSV they would vaccinate the animals right in the animal trials be it rats or ferrets or whatever. And it would look like the vaccine was okay safety wise. And then when those animals were re exposed with RSP a large percentage in some trials, all of them died. And it's a complicated topic that I've covered on another show. Dr. Ryan Cole covers it very nicely so check that out to review Do it. But this is not a virus that is going to be immune. It's you can't make a vaccine on an mRNA platform for RSV. At least not at this time, the technology is not ready, it got rushed for COVID. They're trying to rush it again for RSV. Don't let your kid or actually they're trying to do this for pregnant women. There's nothing worse than thinking about causing immune activation during pregnancy. We have studies showing that any kind of infection, viral infections in particular during pregnancy can cause problems with brain development. Why on this good green earth, would you intentionally activate the immune system while you're pregnant? It makes zero sense. So that was the long answer, which was the short answer was no. But I wanted to explain there's some real science behind why it's not a good idea.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  5:46  
No, thank you for answering that. But back to what So explain RSV, first of all, simply so that people understand that don't know what it is. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  5:53  
respiratory syncytial virus is that is what it stands for, is basically a cold. It's a virus that causes cold like symptoms, but it's a specifically Muco genic, which just means it makes you all mucousy. More so than I think other colds. And if you think about the size of airways, adults in the large children have a big trachea, big bronchioles, even their little or tubes are big enough that if they get a little mucousy, they they can handle it. But if it a little baby gets RSV, especially the preemies, they're the ones that have a terrible time because there's enough mucus to actually block airways, and so their oxygenation can dip significantly and potentially be dangerous. I don't want you to be scared of RSV, folks. I mean, if you have a extreme preemie, or a preemie, or newborn with significant heart or lung issues, yeah, stay away from it. Anybody that's sick. You know, it may not just be RSV, but influenza COVID, the whole list. And there's a long list of viruses, some bacteria that can cause lung infections, you don't want any of that if you are that vulnerable. And that's where you'll get a number of deaths every year from RSV. And it almost always ends up being people who have underlying high high risk those extreme preemies. People with heart lung problems. But yeah, RSV, I've known this since I was a pediatrician. 35 years ago, every winter, we see RSV, and rarely does anybody end up in the hospital. And really, you go to the hospital for one of two reasons. Either you can't drink anymore, you're so congested. You go to a nurse or take a bottle and your nose is plugged, it's congested. Now you plug in the mouth, they can't breathe. So they're just shoving gasping for air. So you go for IV hydration, or you go because you need oxygen, and actually had this great family in my practice from Italy. And they said, No respectfully Italian, I wish I could have done it in her accent. It leaves home without a pulse oximeter. This is the most important little tool you should all have at home. It works like this. Say it again. What is it, it's a pulse oximeter. It measures the oximeter blood just reads the oxygen in your blood. It can be hard to use on a newborn or a tiny infant, but you just push the start button, stick your finger in there on the red flashing light and hold still, and you start it starts to count the heartbeat boom. You have a 97 heartbeat, or no 9084 Well, you're relaxing. You're a little tense here to begin with, as I was but your actions 96 And that's not bad. normals, 97 to 100 I always knew you weren't normal.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  8:38  
Well, and I mean, it's I know that well. We're talking about RSV and everything I one of my questions is you've talked about it and children but I know with us being so exposed you were sick last week and I was is RSV something that affects adults, because I know everything you've been describing, I've been feeling and I know you've felt so.

Dr. Paul  8:57  
So yes, RSV will affect adults, but generally it's just a cold, okay, it could be a bad cold and RSV tends to last a little longer than most colds, your typical viral illness be at a cold or whatever the flu lasts for seven to 10 days. RSV peeks around day four to seven, and lasts for two to four weeks. And so I can't tell you how many patients I saw just this week, who had their kids have been sick for 1012 days, couple of them two, three weeks, and they're like frustrated to go do something. Well, that might just be the normal course of RSV or it could be you're absolutely right we are seeing more RSV, more COVID Well, definitely more influenza A and B actually all a so far in my practice in the last year interviewing me the day before I end my clinical practice in Oregon so I can speak as a clinician right now. We're just doing this interview a little early before we take a trip to speak but what I've been seeing in the clinic The last two three weeks, a huge number of positives for influenza A still getting positive COVID tests and plenty of RSV positive, it is actually happening. As they're saying on the news, I don't think it's nearly as scary as they make it out to be. Our news loves to be dramatic itself. But I'm not trying to minimize the fact that RSV and a preemie or an a very young infant who has heart conditions, you don't want that. But you don't need to be afraid of it. If you get adequate volumes of nutrition. So if you're a mama at home, breastfeeding, for example, you feed as much as you can, you tank that baby up as much as you possibly can, because that will keep them out of the hospital, right? Because they're hydrated enough, they're having enough wet diapers. Also, being able to get enough oxygen so that you don't have as much control over but you can certainly test it showed you the pulse ox that's something you can get on, you know, any pharmacy or online stores and have it at home to us. So you know, when you need to go to the hospital. If your baby is having a pulse ox close to 90, say 9192 or less. You should go be seen if you're if your doctor's office handles those sorts of things, as far as does go see your doctor, but oftentimes they don't you have to go to the hospital and just it may be that you need oxygen.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  11:19  
Okay. So with all of those things, it's November, did you know that

Dr. Paul  11:26  
it's almost the end of November?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  11:28  
So I don't remember seeing everything like this this soon. Can you speak to that? Because I know you've made a comment that normally it's December or January, I think when time you said owed peak is January, right? It's November.

Dr. Paul  11:40  
And in fact, it felt like we were peeking in early to mid November. And in some parts of the country. That's what happened. I saw a recent chart, I believe it was from the CDC, that went over the last many years of RSV influenza, and of course COVID. And what they showed was back in, up until 2019, we had a winter peak that was around December, January have RSV, influenza, and then it goes down by April or May it's gone. Every year you had that same peak 2021. No, RSV, no influenza, like, none. What, Where did it go, we're seeing anything, we weren't seeing anything. People weren't going to the hospital, they weren't going to their doctor's office, we were on lockdown for COVID. And the only testing that was being done for the most part was for COVID. And I remember we kept our office open the whole time. And I remember thinking what the heck Have they forgotten that there's a list of about 30 things that can cause fever, headaches, body aches, cough, but no, it was just COVID or otherwise. But they were tracking the data as we went started opening up. And you see this steady rise in RSV and influenza, not the spikes, like 2021. That winter, not the one we're entering. But the one before it was just a slow, steady rise, no peak. And I think that's just as as we saw more and more kids and kids were allowed to be together in schools, you start sharing these germs. But it's been a very abnormal sort of pattern. And I think it's just a function of one the quarantine and two. When you haven't been sick for two, three years and you haven't been mingling, you have two three years of babies being born for one thing whose immune systems have not been exercised at all. Right? So there, I mean, we used to see this with measles before the measles and chickenpox before the vaccines were introduced, especially measles every two, three years would be a big ol outbreak. And that's two or three years worth of newborns, who are up to now two or three years old, we've never had measles goes through the community. Now the immunity is good. And nothing for another two, three years. So we have those seasonal spikes. I don't know if that helps at all, but it's definitely

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  13:56  
different. And so that brings us to your child gets RSV you've told us what to look for. So let's talk fever though because that seems to be a big one. I've will even get emails on what fever and I always wonder I may not see the email for one or two days and I'm like, oh gosh, your child. Why are you why are you sending an email? So talk about fever. Okay, and in children in general, but even especially like right now RSV is affecting a lot of babies in our clinic. And people don't know when to go to the hospital.

Dr. Paul  14:25  
Yeah. You go to the hospital if you need fluids or oxygen, right. Or if you're close to needing it, you're unsure. If you have a good clinic where you can go to and they can assess oxygen, they can assess hydration. Go to your regular doctor before you end up with the ER ers or slash sickest kids fever on the other hand, thank you for bringing that to our attention. Fever is your friend. Fever at? Yup, fever helps your body knock out the virus we've been taught to be afraid of feet Ever. And it's it's the wrong teaching.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  15:02  
So do you think part of that fear comes because we hear? I mean, as a mom when my son was younger, I heard that if your child gets a, I think I heard 104 105 Fever, that fever can kill them. I heard that.

Dr. Paul  15:15  
Yeah. No, not at 104 or five. I think if you get 206, seven, you're in trouble. That's, that's even a thing. I have not seen it, honestly. Okay, so

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  15:27  
So let's talk about that 103 205 fever that we're seeing right now. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  15:31  
at 104 to five, your child will probably be delirious. And they're so out of it that you don't know if they've got meningitis, which is super rare, by the way. Or they've got a serious infection, right? That's making them just, yeah, not even be able to be responsive. So when it's that high, and they're delirious or not responding, well, you have to get it down as a diagnostic tool to see whether or not are they just delirious because they have a really high fever? If that's all in there, okay. So there's a really cool way of getting the fever down. How cool is it? Good, good. Oh, no pun intended, no pun intended. Well, you get a wet rag, or washcloth and you get it fairly damp. I mean, not dripping wet, but really moist. It could be slightly warm, because cold will shock the child, and you just pat all over their body and let that water evaporate. And it's called latent heat of evaporation. It just brings the fever down. And you can bring a fever down in five to 10 minutes. Like from 104 to 101. Like any age networks, probably haven't tried it on at all. They probably probably but

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  16:46  
it's usually an older child like

Dr. Paul  16:48  
I mean, you got more body surface area, the older they are, although,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  16:51  
can you put them in a bath because I've heard you can put a child and be alert,

Dr. Paul  16:55  
lukewarm to coolish bath that would probably do the same thing. But I think allowing that evaporation is what really works. Wow. Also, the the counter to that is if mom has a fever and she's breastfeeding and she's got skin to skin with their baby but she's hot. Baby can get hot. Right? And we've had that happen. Their baby feels hot, they don't really forget that they're a bit warm too, right? And they take take the baby's temp and if they're less than six, eight weeks old and they have over 101.4 You got to go to the hospital. So it's like you just create a situation you get there and they take the time it's normal. Well it was up because of skin to skin that happens right after birth to right if mom gets a fever from the work of labor, you can get pretty warm. Babies born with a fever but within an hour or two, it's normal. I digressed. What were we talking about fevers don't be afraid of it folks. Also you can get it down with like I said the the pat dry I am not a fan of acetaminophen that's brand name is Tylenol. What Tylenol acetaminophen does is it blocks your and acetyl cysteine NAC and N acetyl. Cysteine is the precursor sorry, it blocks glutathione glutathione is your major molecule for not only fighting the infection as a major antioxidant, but also for detoxifying. So when you block that pathway from an acetylcysteine NAC to glutathione with the acetaminophen, you're actually making your child or your patient more at risk for the infection. Which that makes no sense, right? So if if it's safe to use ibuprofen, if you have to use anything you would use that. It's not supposed to be used under six months of age. But if you got under six months of age, just do the pet thing anyway. Yeah.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  18:38  
So I'm gonna have you because you said it quite quickly. And I think it's really important. Please explain again, why Tylenol is dangerous to give your child to bring a fever down.

Dr. Paul  18:49  
So Tylenol, which is acetaminophen has a very narrow therapeutic window. And what that means is you need this much for it to work. But if you have this much, it's toxic, right? So it's very easy to get toxic. If you happen to be dehydrated, you can be toxic at these normal doses. And what are you when you're sick, you tend to be dehydrated. So it's it's really not a good thing to be giving at all. Probably shouldn't be over the counter. I think if they tried to bring that to market today, it would not make it it would have to be a prescription drug because of that risky nature of that narrow window, therapeutic window. In your body. We have all these metabolic pathways every cell can make glutathione which is a major antioxidant,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  19:36  
okay, major antioxidant in the house, something your body needs, your body

Dr. Paul  19:39  
needs that to fight infection. Okay, you've heard of vitamin C being helpful, especially when you're sick. That's an antioxidant. Glutathione and vitamin C are kind of working together. Okay, this one of them. It really does affect your ability to fight infection. So

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  19:54  
if those two things are helping fight infection, and you give something like acetaminophen and it blocks that That's, that's why it's not necessarily helpful. And again, if it reaches a top level, right, I just wanted to go through that slowly because I that's another question that I get asked constantly. Well, I've heard Doctor policy, you know, not to do acetaminophen or but yet every other doctor says, Give your baby tylenol to bring down a fever. So first thing

Dr. Paul  20:18  
they say it makes no sense. Okay. So I think if you have acetaminophen in your house, throw it away. Not not in the landfills. So hard. What do you what do you do with all these pharmaceuticals that you don't need? I know how to put them in the rivers and streams. I don't know if you want to bury them, because then they're going to end up there. So conundrum there are places to dispense IV meds safely, right? Yeah.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  20:38  
Okay. So these kids have cold viruses, no matter what it is, and they're sick. When a child and this is something that when I was responding back with somebody through emails, and explained, again, not giving any advice or anything, but explaining why you, you wouldn't say not to use acetaminophen, they said What's difficult is IV, the ibuprofen doesn't work as quickly. And then there'll be the child will be kind of, you know, doesn't look like they feel good. There'll be lethargic, kind of because of the fever. Isn't that okay? I think we get as parents we get concerned, I don't want my child to look sick. I don't want my child to be sick. But isn't the point is the ibuprofen will help that fever from becoming dangerous, but the body needs to fight the infection in order to get rid of it.

Dr. Paul  21:25  
So your this goes back to fevers your friend, okay? We're not anti fever. So okay, you know, as long as it's below 104, let's just use that as our cutoff, which is 40 degrees centigrade, 104 Fahrenheit, and your child is not lethargic and out of it. Right. If they're lethargic and out of it, you need to get that fever down, right to make sure they're in there, that they're okay. Right, that's

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  21:49  
when they give Tylenol, or I'm sorry, Sita monofin. That's when parents feel like they need

Dr. Paul  21:54  
to because they can't get it, get it down, right, sponge them down.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  21:57  
Okay. And I think that's what I'm, that's what I'm trying to say is I think that when the normal that we hear from our pediatrician and most pediatrician is you don't want your child to you know, you don't want them to look sick or be sick or feel sick or become lethargic. So to get that fever down, you give them Tylenol, and they feel better. I see that all the time with my friends even with their kids. So I guess that's not coming back to you. That's the whole point is there's other ways to do that. With the cold,

Dr. Paul  22:28  
wet cloth, let the water evaporate, you can probably get it down in 510 minutes, or for as long as necessary until the ibuprofen kicks in if you're needing to get it down. But here's the key I don't want people to miss and all this. We've been talking a lot about it. If you can get it down in your kid looks fine. You can let it go back up. Right, you already know they're fine. Maybe twice a day you bring it down enough to be sure they're still fine. Okay, right. Parent trick, if you've raised kids, and you gotta go to work, the next day you need your sleep, I would always dose with a dose of ibuprofen before I went to bed. Very selfish that way. Because it lasts for six to eight hours. And that's what a lot all I need for sleep is six or seven hours. So I got my sleep, I'm functioning the next day my kids slept better because they didn't have high fevers in the middle of the night. The trick you should not do that I'm guilty of was sometimes ibuprofen out the door so they don't have

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  23:19  
school. Oh my God. Now we know why there's so much fiction going around. So let's bring it back to influenza and COVID and all these things. Can your child get all three? That was another question. Of course theoretically, the same time.

Dr. Paul  23:37  
Theoretically you could. I have not ever seen that. Okay, so when I used to do those recipe paths and they were testing for about 30 Different organisms, which included a Coronavirus and influenza A and B and RSV. mycoplasma, rhinovirus, enterovirus. enteroviruses, you name it. Sometimes you would get two or three, right, but it was usually remember your swabbing the nose. Now, there's a lot of stuff going on in there. Not all of it is actually causing you problems. Oh, gotcha. You are colonized also with various organisms that are just living at peace in your little cesspool of your nose. So the fact that you grew more than one thing shouldn't be alarming. Okay. Generally it would be just one or two though, okay, and we know which things are more problematic. You're sicker with influenza, you're sicker with RSV. Early on COVID for high risk people was a concern. It isn't. It's so interesting. of the big three because I've been testing all three for the last few weeks in my clinic. The one I'm worried the least about as COVID Okay, when parents get a COVID Oh, yeah, that he was the least sick with COVID of all of the sicker with influenza A sicker with RSV sicker with some Things that aren't any of those three, right? So that fear of COVID can just go away. We don't need your COVID help anymore, we never needed it to begin with.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  25:11  
And, and with that you're referring to the vaccine because there are protocols, and there are things to deal with it. And what I've noticed in the clinic that I'd like you to address, and one of the people who emailed had actually just shared that they appreciated you saying that you didn't feel like this COVID shot for children would be helpful that especially those that got it in the last six months, the younger ones, that those kids, it could affect their immune system, the kids that a lot of the kids that we're seeing in a lot of my friends, kids that got the shot, they're really struggling the season with all of these other issues with influenza. One child is very, very sick with influenza, and they had had this shot, do you think that that's part of it? Is the kids even the older ones who are getting sick now that maybe wouldn't have because they had the vaccine? Do you think that has to do with an immune system?

Dr. Paul  26:03  
Absolutely. And I've had several guests speak to this, the vaccines in general, but the COVID jab in particular, really does a number on shifting your immune system into the make antibody side of the immune system. So away from your innate, inborn T cell immunity, if you will, and shifts it to B. So we're going to make antibodies, you've got to remember antibodies are the second line of defense, they're the backup, if, if an infection gets through and you become infected, it's only then that you make antibodies. And so shifting the making antibodies actually does some harm. Because now if you get re exposed to that disease, and it enters because your innate immune system, your T cell immunity is not working as well, which is what these shots are doing. You get a massive response. And this is this massive inflammation where I think we're seeing the myocarditis, but clotting problems, the adult Death Syndrome, people just dropping dead. It's a massive release of cytokines inflammatory and what have your immune systems on fire. And it's not natural. So the advice at this point for COVID jabs for sure going forward, No way No child should get them. And most of the really well informed doctors who are dealing with this are saying nobody, period.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  27:32  
Okay. Well, thank you for answering questions, again, most of them right now. And on the last one, we talked about polio, I think when so many things are going around. And he always talks openly and freely about these things. It's very helpful and very supportive. But I do think that it is a real fear for parents, and especially moms, we seem to be like, we don't want our kids to be sick. And when you listen to the news, and you see children outside of hospitals in these beds, because they're at capacity and all these things that are happening. That's a real fear. Yeah. So just a final note, what can you say to parents, for me, it's it's faith over fear, you just have to have faith over fear. What is it as a doctor?

Dr. Paul  28:17  
So I agree with faith over fear. But here's the great news, there are a whole host of things you can do. One to prevent even getting these infections. Number one on that list is vitamin D. Okay? If they had just given a care package to every citizen in the USA, for enough vitamin d3 With que tu maybe add a little magnesium and zinc to that we wouldn't have had an outbreak or epidemic at all, I'm pretty sure of that. So make sure your vitamin D status is optimal, not just normal, but optimal. And every good doctor I've talked to agrees with me that's 50 to 80 micrograms per liter, per milliliter, sorry. And that's the normal in the US measurement.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  29:04  
So you're not prescribing you're diagnosing No, no,

Dr. Paul  29:06  
this is just informational, run it by your clinicians. You can go to the FL CCC, the frontline Critical Care Alliance docs and actually pull out Dr. Paul Alexander substack recently put out a really comprehensive doc document about what you can do. They have the eye prevent protocol. I mean, it's like use mouthwash. You can use a nose spray, you can use Popova dine iodine spray, just make it dilute enough. So it's see through Brown and flush your nose twice a day. Whatever gets in there, whether it's COVID, flu, RSV, it's not getting past there, you're gonna knock it out, kill it on the spot before it enters your body. He's talks about vitamin D, zinc 20 to 50 micrograms per deciliter. Vitamin C 500. Twice a day. If you're an adult, you can go lower if you're younger. You can go way more if you can tolerate it. If you're older melatonin it actually is an antioxidant it helps reduce binding to the ACE receptors and Interesting enough, this same protocol that's been so successful with COVID actually works for RSV. Those two viruses actually have a lot of similarities. Elderberry, you've heard of it before, I would add elderberry. Just when you're sick, it's not something you need to take all the time. Same with resveratrol and quercetin. These help these zinc iontophoresis. It just, it allows your immune system be so much more robust. And believe it or not ivermectin at that point, two milligrams per kilogram, couple times a week will prevent infection from RSV COVID, probably influenza as well. And acetyl cysteine we talked about and then the last and hardest to get in the USA in the winter is sunlight. I hope you will do a lot of these things. Be prepared. And you don't need to be fearful. You can have incredible faith when you've also done your homework and you've prepared.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  30:50  
So keep sending in your questions every once in a while we'll have these little chats so that we can answer some of those questions for you. And I don't know if it's okay to say this or not. But upcoming because you've got one more shift as a medical doctor here in in Oregon, you're going to be doing some wellness coaching, to help with a lot of people who want to connect with you personally, and be able to really hear about how to advocate for yourself and your own health and your own wellness. So stay tuned.

Dr. Paul  31:24  
It's kids first forever. This is my partner in crime right here at Hoover. So folks, we're starting something special d&i, it's called Kids First forever, you've got a kids first forever.com, that website is going to be developing. And we will bring everything we possibly can to the world at that site, looking forward to connecting with you, and sharing this journey with you.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  31:48  
And it's kids first forever, the number four ever.com. And you can go and sign up now to be receiving our newsletters. When we start getting everything together and organized. We'll be sending out newsletters to let you know how to connect with us

Dr. Paul  32:03  
foreign kids first forever stands for spiritual,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  32:06  
emotional, physical, and mental because all four of those areas are important.

Dr. Paul  32:14  
There you have it, folks. See you next time.

Welcome back to against the wind. Bernadette, it's always great to have you I understand today you're going to talk to us about the mindset of people in public health. I'm eager to hear what you've got to say.

Bernadette Pajer  32:32  
Yeah, thank you. Well, you know, it's so important when we're on this mission to to really understand what we're up against. Because, you know, the while there's some demons out there, as far as who know, bad products and bad policy, the majority, hundreds, literally hundreds of 1000s of individuals working in public health have good hearts, and they mean well. But their particular mindset has been directly influenced by really to use the term misinformation. So I wanted to share with you this paper that was published in The Lancet, it is an opinion piece. But it really gives insight into the mindset of people in public health. They want to control communicable infectious contagious disease. And so in this just this was published in April of 2022 in The Lancet vaccination and natural immunity, advantages and risks as a matter of public health policy. So you'll see here they looked at both, and they say although both methods, natural immunity and vaccination provide some level of immunization, they create substantially different concerns for policy and substantially different risks for the individual. As natural immunity requires becoming infected. Their contrast should consider medical science, including the relative protection offered by each pathway. However, the larger debate must also address practical and logistical issues when applying immunization requirements through public policy. So you know, you and I as individuals making our own health decisions, we're thinking about what's best for me, what's my individual risks? can I overcome the disease? Will I develop natural immunity? How long does it last? That's that's how we base our decision for ourselves and our families. Public health has to take this larger view of what can we control? What can we put in policy that we can find, and that we can control?

Dr. Paul  34:40  
Right. And I think you you brought up in the beginning a very important point. And this is true for how most doctors think as well, most MDs, were true trained, that vaccines are safe. And so we don't look at side effects. And we're trained that they're effective. When and Back certainly with the SARS cov. Two as a great illustration, the effectiveness is is horrendous.

Bernadette Pajer  35:06  
Yes, exactly it, it quickly goes to negative efficacy, which makes it absolutely not out not just useless but dangerous. So, so it's highlighted in the next thing I've got highlighted there it says For most the scientific evidence must be considered specific to SARS. cov to some results suggests that vaccine induced immunity is more effective. Other results suggest that natural immunity is more effective. So it's good. They're reading all the studies out there. Some findings estimate both as roughly equal, but then we get down to risk exposure is the first issue for public health to consider. Notably, each pathway to immunity exposes individuals to different levels of risk. People could have adverse reactions to vaccines, or severe outcomes due to infection. Well, that's absolutely agreed right. This is common sense discussion. But we then we get to the sentence adverse effects have been minimal for COVID 19 vaccines, how in the world unless they are living, which they apparently are in the bubble that considers everything published, it bears all of the science showing the dangers, the lipid nanoparticles, Emma RNA generated spike, you know, everything that we're seeing, how blind are they to

Dr. Paul  36:26  
the astounding, I mean, we know the increase huge signal and myocarditis, a whole new syndrome, adult Sudden Death Syndrome. I mean, you've seen athletes dropping dead on the soccer fields. And these are not isolated cases, the literature is full of the horrendous amount of side effects from this jab.

Bernadette Pajer  36:47  
Yes. And this segment is be the news, right? I'm trying to empower people. This shows that there is, you know, as much as we are censored, the people who are being blocked most from the information we know, are people in public health. So we must continue, you know, educating public health, eventually somebody will wake up and listen to what we're saying. So let's continue that. And then they go on to say that the SARS cov. SARS, cov to exposure, meanwhile, carries significant and well documented dangers. Well, that is somewhat true, but also misleading. And because SARS cov. Two holds dangerous if you don't have adequate levels of vitamin D, and zinc and glutathione. And if you don't have early treatment protocols at the ready to prevent severe disease, and these are things that public health is not even mentioning, they're not dealing with that is another avenue that must be opened up into public health. And then they talk about reliability. How do you build policy around people getting sick, you don't know if they get sick, you don't know if they get re exposed, and so they feel completely out of control. And I love the sentence here, vaccination uses the same formula each time the same dosage and with an identifiable date of vaccination. Winning immunity can be documented, documented with high reliability. natural immunity is highly variable by comparison. And public health people who are trying to set policy they don't like variability. They don't like individuality. They want one size fits all approach, whether it works or not.

Dr. Paul  38:39  
I'm smiling because okay, we've got data that the vaccine is not giving lasting protection. And while natural immunity, sure it is variable, but it's giving very long lasting protection. Who cares if it's one year or 30 years? That's a whole lot better than three to five months. That's all you get with the COVID jab.

Bernadette Pajer  38:59  
Yeah, if you get any at all, and if it all goes to negative and the risks, I mean, the thing is, you know what it is, it's just it's absurd. But but you know, you I sent the earnestness and these individuals because they're having conversations that need to be public. I would love to have people on stage, having this dialogue and then presenting the science on each side, because this is really important. And then sustainment is the third and again, boosters for natural infections are more difficult to coordinate. Well, especially if the booster is natural exposure. Right, which is how colds and flus generally build immunity. You only typically get if you're not being exposed to vaccine products, the flu like maybe every decade or 20 years, because every exposure then makes you more resilient for many years forward and then it changes enough that then you you know, you might get symptomatic disease after certain point, but you can't control natural boosters. But you can control when you're going to give those boosters to the public if you've got a program. And so that's the mindset that control the paternalistic control. You know how? So Dr. Paul, how do we help public health let go of their fear of not being in control. They only have this fear over vaccine targeted infections, you don't hear the panic and lack of control over the common cold,

Dr. Paul  40:38  
or the hundreds or 1000s of infections that we don't have a vaccine for. There's no concern for those. I would say, as I listened to you presenting this, and it rings true this is this is how doctors and public health officials think and in fact, government officials who are helping set policy that they shouldn't be involved with. But anyway, they don't understand natural immunity, they don't understand the data. So it seems to me and you're more involved with going to legislatures, and, you know, trying to give people good information. But it seems like the only way forward is to present good information. So where can people go to get that good information?

Bernadette Pajer  41:22  
Yeah, well, you we need good information. We need to continue to educate the legislators and public health, but it's going to come from the individuals, when enough of the population knows the truth about each individual that can product, real health, early treatment, sustaining health, all of that, then there's going to be all this non compliance with policy. Right? So all of these educational avenues have to come forward. And where do you get good information? Well, you get it from Dr. Pol. You get it from Children's Health defense, who links you to good science and good doctors, you get it from the FL CCC, the frontline critical care COVID-19, critical care specialists are going to have to change their name eventually in tic COVID out of there, because they're branching into flu and RSV. Now, it's wonderful, what they're doing. To help people understand how you can protect yourself from severe disease from other infections. You go to your trusted health care provider, somebody who's aligned with you and understanding how brilliant your God given immune system is to protecting you.

Dr. Paul  42:35  
And I would add, when we say trusted healthcare provider, we are really talking about, as you said, Someone aligned with your beliefs. But let's say you're watching this and you're not sure where you stand on vaccines, you at least want a doctor who's willing to let you be in charge in charge. You're allowed to be the decision maker about what happens as you get informed. Because too many doctors are just you do it my way are out the door. Yes, paternalism that was gone back when I was in medical school, they were saying that's the worst kind of medicine. And yet, that's what we're going back to at least when you're talking about vaccines and pharma products.

Bernadette Pajer  43:07  
Well, yeah, we're going back to that. But it's it's less an attitude that kind of came with the profession and the white coat and I can do this kind of thing. It's it's worse than that, because it's coming top down, where major entities are telling doctors what they can and cannot do or say we've got that law in California, silencing doctors, we've got the oh, that starts with an F the Federation of medical boards, that is telling nurses, doctors, all practitioners what they can and cannot say and do.

Dr. Paul  43:47  
Yeah, they sent out that letter last year to all the boards, basically stating that if doctors are not following the approved narrative, they are participating in disinformation and you should consider taking their license. So it's it's incredible pressure on doctors, if you're trying to support your family, and you don't know anything else. I mean, I I remember when I was first realizing I could lose my license, which of course now I have thinking, wow, how would I support my family? And when I was younger, it was a real factor in me staying a little silent about what I knew I shared the truth with my patients, but I wasn't out there on blast trying to tell the world. Yeah, because of the consequences. At this point, I don't care about the consequences. So yeah, let's go and let's let the world know what's really going on. Listen to people who have nothing to lose,

Bernadette Pajer  44:37  
listen to people who exactly right and and two things should give you hope. Well, one is more and more people are joining you, Dr. Paul. And we really are at that point of medical history of health history where everybody who has something to risk and is being threatened needs to stand up because if everybody rises together, then you You all will be heard, they can't silence you all. And we can take this back. So that's really important. And there is a growing parallel health system being developed. Dr. Pierre Korea's Got an online medical service. Now, there's the wellness company, Dr. Peter McCullough and others have founded this. And there's, there's multiple numbers, we should do an episode sometime and gathering more and more. And, you know, at first, it's going to be difficult, because, you know, they're not a lot of these places aren't taking insurance, and it's going to be an out of pocket expense. And eventually, we have to find a way that, you know, anybody can go to them, even, you know, not being cost prohibitive. But in the meantime, if you can afford it, support these parallel medical systems that are that are going forward

Dr. Paul  45:53  
that represent we will need parallel insurance products that will cover Yeah, alternative a parallel system. And it's, we're working on this, folks. If you are a health care professional, and you're in feeling you're in this bind of I'm going to lose my career, or destroy my career, but you you know what you need to be doing, I would just urge you to do it, you need to do anyway. Because if you don't think about the magnitude of stress, internal, it's just, if you're living from your soul at all, if you're connected at all, to spirit, you can't do it. I mean, so you have to disconnect. And where does that take you? So grab hold of the truth, grab hold of the knowledge that you already have. And don't be shy, be bold, stick to the truth because it wins in the end. And we're real close, folks. If the House of Cards is going to fall apart, and it's coming quickly.

Bernadette Pajer  46:50  
Yeah. You made me pretty emotional with that. Dr. Paul, amen. I hope everybody's listening and take see. Thank you. Thank you, Bernadette.

Dr. Paul  47:06  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show, PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire. Today's show I interview attorney Ryan Heath, He is father to two kids. He is a civil rights activist and the founder of a nonprofit, the gavel project, fascinating work he's doing, you're going to want to learn everything you can about this. This is about fighting, unethical government and employer mandates. It's about protecting the freedoms of all Americans, and especially children. He even goes into teaching children about civil disobedience, for example, how to not wear a mask when you're being required by schools to wear a mask. He's basically standing for our human rights and deciding what enters into your body. That should be your decision, not the government, not the school, not the public health officials, not your doctor, your decision. We wrap this up with Bernadette who gives you some ideas for holiday gifts. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart, I wanted to touch on something that I've struggled with and that's consciousness, to really be able to see truthfully and fully. I actually needed the confidence that there was a love greater than myself. That's really key for me, to really be able to look inside. Actually, the more opportunities I've had to struggle, when I look at those struggles with humility and honesty, it's only then that I feel like I've had a chance to gain in wisdom, gain and humility and compassion. Darkness cannot overcome light. And so if each of us will be that light, and lead with love is going to be amazing, folks. I'm Dr. Paul.

welcome Ryan Heath, you are the father of two young children, a civil rights activist and the founder of the gavel project. And we're gonna deep dive into that.

Ryan Heath  2:09  
I don't know a lot about what you're doing other than the fact that you're fighting for unethical government invasion into our lives, fighting employer mandates and trying to protect the freedoms of Americans, especially children. As a pediatrician, that means a lot to me. Tell our audience a little bit about yourself. I know you're an attorney in Arizona, I believe, and you have young children, but give us the overview. Yeah, so we actually connected through doctors, Tim and Mae Hindmarsh, who are good friends of mine and my wife, I'm I just turned 30. I'm an attorney from Arizona got a couple of kids, as you mentioned. But last year, when Gavin Newsom decided he was going to be requiring the COVID-19 vaccine as a contingent precedent for kids to get an education, California, I told my wife who was seven months pregnant time that I was quitting my job. And I was starting a nonprofit to go after quote, unquote, the bad guys, as I told my daughter as well, that's kind of how I define things. And basically, we're, we're an anti woke organization, we're here to restore normalcy in American society. I was a law student during January of 2020. And I had the blessed opportunity to actually go and sit in a class that was being taught by Justice Alito of the United States Supreme Court on constitutional interpretation, I was one of 16 students selected from my school to go be a part of that. And during that process, obviously COVID-19 was was kicking off over on the other side of the world. And it was just a unique set of circumstances that led me to this position. I have a troubled past when I was 17. I got in all sorts of trouble and was always a hard headed kid, one of those ADHD kids that never really paid attention or fit in and ended up getting sent away. Because I was so defiant. My parents and I lived in the woods for two months, went to therapeutic boarding school and I happen to be around a lot of people that today would be preyed upon, in many ways, by by physicians, unfortunately, and by practitioners of medicine who are trying to change these children from let's say, boys and girls and girls into boys. Those are the types of issues that our nonprofit takes on and basically, I'm an attorney, I'm a creative person, and I help come up with arguments and set up lawsuits even. Meaning I help teach kids to disobey unconstitutional mandates, and then fund lawsuits and fundraise for the those kids to have pro bono legal representation. So we actually pay attorneys to represent people. Wow. And that's sort of what you're doing with the gavel project. Exactly. Yeah. So we're an anti woke five oh,

One C three public charity that is here to reestablish normalcy in America through strategic litigation. And much of what we did. Most of my time over the past year. It's been about a year since I started this it was October of 2021 is been spent going around and teaching kids how to disobey their schools mask mandates out in California actually, basically emptied my life savings and sold the vehicle and did all that fun stuff to be able to afford airfare and hotels to go around and meet with parents and kids. And we actually had a successful protests up in the Thomas the kids got to go back to school without masks on before Governor Newsom lifted his mandatory guidelines, as he called them. And we have a bunch of lawsuits that were based on that that, you know, weren't as successful. We had a kid up and Capistrano Unified School District, young, young, 16 year old boy that actually went so far as to protest three days in a row, he was suspended. He was quote, unquote, suspended by the district, he went back to class was actually sneaking into school, I was sitting outside the High School on the hill above the school and teaching him like, hey, sneak into school, go do this, go do that. Because we believe so strongly that these these mandates are unconstitutional. And in fact, he invited the police to arrest him each day that he was there when they showed up because he had been suspended. And he was refusing to leave campus. So he was trespassing. And they did nothing. ended up giving him a civil trespassing ticket on the third day at the behest and that the request of the school which is not a criminal issue, so we're fighting all of that now. We're, we've raised 10s and 10s of 1000s of dollars and spent 10s and 10s of 1000s of dollars on attorneys fees. And we've been on Fox News we've been on Newsmax we're all over the place, but we're still sort of lesser known and getting our name out there now.

Dr. Paul  6:53  
Yeah. Sending that kid into school and protesting and rebelling in that way, reminds me a little bit of my childhood. I grew up in Rhodesia, which is now Zimbabwe. And when I was the head boy of our elementary school, it was my role to raise the Rhodesian flag, which I my parents and I, we were freedom fighters. So we were against this illegal government, I refused to raise the flag, they, the school sort of put me in lockdown in a separate room and got some other kids to raise the flag. So that's just a little, we have a lot of similarities. In our past, I got kicked out of high school. I'm not undiagnosed, but for sure, ADHD, I got a lot of energy. We need to put this energy to use. I'm curious, give, give our viewers more detail on, you know, what does that look like? When I mean, you, you, you went to California, this wasn't your hometown? How do you organize a protest like that? I mean, this this is civil rights sort of stuff. And, and the current government is certainly infringing on our civil rights. Yeah, it

Ryan Heath  8:07  
certainly is. And so I guess what you're asking is how the strategy worked into application when it came to the civil rights protests. So as someone who went to Regent University School of Law, I was blessed to have a very focused education on constitutional law, it's one of the only law schools in the country that has an entire year dedicated to constitutional law, not just one semester, you focus for an entire year on that subject. And we also have a number of, of elective courses that focus on that as well. And that's because the person who runs that school is named Pat Robertson, if you're familiar with Pat, he runs the Christian Broadcasting Network. And defending civil liberties. Defending Freedom of religion in particular is his bread and butter. That's what he cares about most. And so that's why I have this this background in constitutional law. And I realized from my training and from my studies in law school, I was actually a newer attorney. Obviously, I graduated in 2020. I took the COVID bar with a with a mask on unfortunately, I didn't really have any other options. But because of my background in this, I realized that refusing to wear a mask is actually protected as free speech under the United States Constitution. And that's the case for a number of reasons. First, the Supreme Court going back to all these cases from from Johnson v. Texas, dispense v. Washington, and there are a number of others as well, including West Virginia V. Barnett, et cetera. But these cases basically stayed and it's very clear, you as a citizen have the right to engage in what's called expressive conduct. And it's not just that the First Amendment free speech clause protects your words they actually protect your actions as well under certain circumstances. And the Supreme Court said back in the use cases, this line of cases, basically, so long as anyone looking at a citizen who is taking an action would understand that action to be inherently communicative, then the action is actually protected as free speech. That's why you can go to a park and burn an American flag and there can't be an ordinance preventing you from doing so as compared to, let's say, burning just a standard white flag in the park, you actually could be criminally prosecuted for doing that. And the reason is, because if you see someone burning an American flag, you have certain connotations tied to that action, people looking at you taking the action of burning a flag, we're going to understand that you're engaged in an act of protest, you don't agree with the values that are, let's say, inherent in the flag, whereas if you were burning a white flag, no one would understand that to have any inherent meaning. And so that we see this today in the phrase COVID theater, people are very familiar with this, if you say, Oh, this is COVID theater, usually the idea comes to your head is you have someone in airport wearing to, you know, surgical masks going through, let's say TSA security, and you know that there's nothing effective or useless. It's just, there's no point of that, it doesn't make any sense. And so in the inverse, the same is true by removing your mask when you're told you're required to do so you are sending a very clear message, you're sending a message of protest, you are sending a message of let's go brand. And for example, I'm not going to agree with what it is that you are trying to compel me to accept. And that actually is protected as well. And there are a number of cases saying that you can't have your conscience violated by the government, your decisions, when it comes to your bodily autonomy are very profound decisions, let's say like political decisions can't be compelled, the government can give you all the characters in the world to point you in the right direction, but they can't use a stick. And so my idea basically was to teach these kids to do what Rosa Parks did sit in, class take off their masks refuse to leave, and call their bluff. And we did that a number of times from Coronado Island all the way up to Sacramento. And now we're funding lawsuits all over that state. And in addition to another number of other matters, as well, we're getting into child sex trafficking cases where the government has been engaged in basically eviscerating parental rights, because children don't want to have or let's say, be called a certain pronoun that's actually happening here in the United States. And we're jumping into that battle as well, because you shouldn't have your kids taken away from you for calling them by their legal sex, which is what's on their birth certificate. And the fact that some people seem to think that's child abuse means that those people are engaged in what I believe to be nefarious activities and then need to be punished.

Dr. Paul  12:55  
This is really exciting. Actually, I am dead set against masks for the way they're being used, you know, to, quote protect you from a virus, when we know the size of the virus particle is so much smaller than the air spaces between the fabric. It just is nonsensical. And it's very harmful I believe to children, I'm, I'm all about putting kids first I'm a pediatrician. I did protest I, I didn't know all the legal stuff you've just shared. So now I'm going to be much more bold about you know, this is going to come again, this this first wave of COVID masking and isolation and quarantine was was a way to see if we can get people to do that. Okay, so it sort of worked is my sense. They instilled a lot of fear. And we have to fight back. And I think you've just presented the legal grounds by which it's, as you put it, freedom of expression is an extension of freedom of speech. And so we can encourage our kids to go into classrooms without their mask, even if the school is requiring it. And we can turn to you to back us up legally. I imagined.

Ryan Heath  14:10  
Exactly. We're actually we filed a lawsuit on these grounds in San Diego Superior Court. We have a young girl there who is 16 years old who is barred from attending class for something like I believe it was six weeks and you can check the actual filing on our website. That's the gavel project.com You can see the lawsuit. It's up there if you want to take a look. But I mean, it was so cold outside every day. They basically their policy was because she didn't want to wear a mask just to kick her out and put her out in the cold. It should wear a battery operated jacket to school each day to stay warm. They just stuck her outside. They put her on Zoom and said this is good enough. They their policy was to exclude her which is illegal. And yes the gavel project is that organization that actually went out took a stand. I don't believe there are any other organ as Asians in the nation, someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that, that actually went out and led free speech protests for the purpose of setting up strategic litigation. And we have the capacity right now based on that lawsuit alone, to set a precedent nationally based on the First Amendment. So that masking never happens again, and we've got four or five those cases.

Dr. Paul  15:20  
Well, folks, just based on that alone, we need to support your work. I mean, this is secure, you set a precedent, and that starts changing everything. And so you're already in the process of doing that. How can people support you?

Ryan Heath  15:39  
Yeah, so if you want to support the work we're doing, please go to our website, the gavel projects.com. We are a public charity 501 C three, we are tax exempt and you can get make tax deductible donations right there on our website. If you want to to fund anything in particular, though, I would encourage you to reach out to me at inquiries at the gavel project.com. We have all sorts of issues from the trans transition of children to to medical freedom for masking to employees being terminated wrongfully for for vaccination status, things like that, and as well as the prep act. So if there's anything that is on someone's heart in particular that they want to see change in society, please feel free to reach out to me we do have a process for application on our website, as well. So if there's anyone out there that feels they have a strong case that they want considered for representation, I would encourage you to go to the gavel project.com/contact. But we definitely need support. My wife and I have been the primary funders of this movement since the inception in last October.

Dr. Paul  16:46  
Wow. Well, thank you for starting the gavel project. If you haven't the time, I want to pick your brain a little bit. I don't get to talk to brilliant 30 year olds very much what's going on in the world? What's your take on this?

Ryan Heath  17:00  
Well, it's it's money. Follow the money. So one of the things that I discovered that I wrote about early on this was in December of last year was that there is a an apparent issue with the way that our university endowment funds are set up in this nation. And so if you rewind a little bit back to like 2007 2008, there was this shift in the way that our loan structure for college education was happening, they went from providing loans to those in need, and based on merit to everyone gets a college loan now. And they're non dischargeable in bankruptcy. All right around that same time, these these universities all adopted this Yale Model. And what that means is that they created nonprofit affiliate organizations, even the public schools did this, that were to manage their university endowment funds. And for people who don't know what an endowment fund is, I'll give you a brief definition, basically, think of a giant pile of money that is put together for the purpose of investing it and then using the revenues from that investment to fund certain activities. And so, around that time, all of these these universities set up these endowment funds, and I'll use the University of Virginia as an example. They set up what's called the University of Virginia investment management company, or UVM. CO for short. And this is a standard practice, basically, across all colleges now. And so what we had and I found this out accidentally, I want to sue UVA for dis unrolling the 253 students or so, a week before school started last year for their vaccination status. And I was doing research on on the university and I found out basically they have this organization that is run by BlackRock, Deutsche Bank, Bain Capital, and all bad guys on Wall Street are sitting on the board of this university endowment fund, along with high level University executives, which is the issue because if you think about the way that our medical structure in the United States is set up, those are the bosses of all of the medical professionals in the country. And if you have bosses of all the medical professionals in the country sitting on the board with a bunch of Wall Street bankers, what do you think was going to happen when COVID came? They have a fiduciary duty to grow the principal of the Endowment Fund, and you control all of the people who can make your investments if you were to shift things pay off without question, and that appears to be what happened. If you look at the return on investments for these, these nonprofit affiliate institutions for all eight Ivy League schools, they all between 2019 2020 fiscal year had average returns three and a half percent or less around that number. Funny thing is the next year Are they all have multibillion dollar returns, every single one of the eight Ivy League institutions, you can check this it's legit. You Venco went from a $9.9 billion endowment fund to I believe it was $14.5 billion in one year. And they you can see because the the principal the the actual way they invest their money, even though they're a public institution that is controlling this nonprofit affiliate organization, it's technically public money, they claim that the way they're investing is proprietary information, you can't get your can't get access to the exact way that these funds are invested. But that's the problem right there is you have a conflict of interest, you have university executives that control all of the public health experts and actually employ them sitting on the board with Wall Street bankers all across the nation. I mean, this is not just the Ivy League schools, it's happened everywhere. And it's the biggest story no one's ever talking about and they, what the pure appears to me took active steps to stoke fear porn and utilize that that control of the medical sector to make sure their investments paid off.

Dr. Paul  21:17  
Take me into a boardroom. So I'm a little dense i It all makes sense vaguely to me. But think of me as a, I don't know, 10 year old and explain what what's happening in the boardroom that makes this all flow like that?

Ryan Heath  21:33  
Well, the boardroom, if you think about this, they're controlling, almost like a hedge fund, the private hedge fund for the university, and they have all these investments, and they're picking and choosing how the investments are going to be held. The way that those investments are going out into the world is proprietary information. So we as taxpayers don't have access to how they're actually putting this money into the into capital investments. And they their job, I mean, that's all they do is to grow the principle. And so if you have a fiduciary duty, meaning that you have a heightened legal duty above what you would have as a normal person, because you're talking about a nonprofit organization, and that's your job, as a board member of a nonprofit is to act as a fiduciary for the nonprofit, you of course, are going to do whatever you can to grow the value of the principal, the money yours. That's That's your job. That's what your duty is. And go ahead.

Dr. Paul  22:30  
So are you suggesting then they would channel funds into, let's say, Pfizer and moderna and then also roll out? You know, vaccine mandates so that, you know, we're propping up the the profit profitability of those pharmaceutical cuts. Exactly.

Ryan Heath  22:47  
Correct. Yes, that's exactly what I'm sort of suggesting happened. And I believe it's the biggest story in in America that no one's talking about right now.

Dr. Paul  22:55  
Yeah, I thought that's what you were saying. And you just hadn't quite put it in those words. Yeah, I have nieces and nephews who are in college. And the pressure to to get the vaccine is I mean, they all succumbed. It was it was like they wouldn't be able to enroll in school, and they've put their whole dreams into, you know, this is where I want to go kind of thing. It's tragic.

Ryan Heath  23:20  
Yeah. And in, people don't realize as well, you can refuse to comply with a vaccine mandate on the grounds of free speech also. And the reason for that is the same reason that the government can't compel you to stand up for the Pledge of Allegiance. You as a student have the right this was actually a Supreme Court case decided in 1943, called West Virginia V. Barnett. And if you think about the context, there were, you know, right around World War Two, national nationalism is a huge issue in America, we want to make sure as a nation that we're promoting nationalism, patriotism, all of these ideals. And in that case, the Supreme Court analyzed the situation for these kids that were Jehovah's Witnesses that didn't want to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. And they sat in an act of protest and were punished because of it. There was actually an ordinance requiring participation put in place by the school board. And the Supreme Court analyzed the situation they said, look, the United States flag has certain inherent meanings and connotations tied to it, ideals of patriotism, love for country, not all of these ideals that come to mind immediately. And by requiring a student to stand up and participate in the Pledge of Allegiance, you would, in effect, put that student in a position where their actions to any reasonable observer, this is a free speech issue again, would would show that they are accepting by participating the ideals underlying are inherent in the flag. And the same can be true for a vaccination ceremony. I have the right as a citizen if I'm, let's say attending a state institution, not a private institution because we're talking about constitutional issues here and only He applies to state institutions. As a citizen, I have the right to refuse to participate in that useless ceremony, which we know I mean, there's in the last few weeks alone, the entire narrative for the reason behind vaccinating the public and vaccine mandates has fallen completely apart. And in this case, now, it becomes even stronger, because if there is no efficacy, if there is no reason to require this, they're basically requiring you to participate in a religious ceremony. It's a dogmatic ceremony the same as the Pledge of Allegiance. And therefore you actually have the right to refuse to comply with a vaccine mandate. I outlined this argument, it's on my website as well. I attempted to intervene in the bent key ventures. That's the daily wire case, when they sued OSHA last year as an amicus curiae, I in the Sixth Circuit. And my my brief as, as amicus curiae, was actually denied by the Sixth Circuit without explanation. And as someone who had just quit his job and was relatively new and into this world didn't really have any, any help or guidance, I let it go. And I kind of regret that now. I wish I had pushed back and actually asserted myself and made the argument on behalf of that institution. Because I believe wholeheartedly now, that is a winning argument. And that's where we have to rest our hat as citizens of a free country, because if we don't, freedom is lost, Liberty is dead, if you don't have the right to make a conscientious objection to a vaccine mandate, as a citizen, meaning that they are permanently changing your body. What is free, you don't have bodily autonomy, you have nothing. Absolutely agree.

Dr. Paul  26:47  
This is this is a line in the sand that, you know, we have to draw this line, you have to maintain bodily integrity. The government can't just at will inject whatever they want. And you have no choice. But that's where we're headed, isn't it?

Ryan Heath  27:01  
Yeah, I mean, we're already somewhat there. It's a death by 1000 cuts with the way that the Reagan administration adopted the first vaccine liability shields for the pharmaceutical industrial complex back in the 80s. Until now, it's just they've been rolling, step by step. You know, little step here a little step there to take away your rights, the point where they could argue in today's day and age, well, we've mandated vaccines for X, Y, and Z. So why can't we mandate this vaccine? Well, the difference is you changed the definition of the word vaccine back in November of 2021. Because this isn't a vaccine, it doesn't provide immunity never did. We knew that now. And Pfizer admitted it the other day. They never tested this on on stopping transmission. It was all I

Dr. Paul  27:50  
Yeah, so we have that are the COVID. But let's go to the childhood vaccination schedule that 1986 the childhood immunization act that you referred to. You're an attorney, why can't we get that thrown out?

Ryan Heath  28:05  
Well, I think the biggest issue right now is the prep act. And that's what I would say how we have the strongest argument from a constitutional perspective to challenge as far as the the lowest hanging fruit. I think that is it. And I'm not going to go into into the details of that yet. I have been drafting an argument for the prep act for quite a while. And I don't wish to share that with the world. But there is a constitutional basis. And you have to think about it this way. And I'll just kind of make an analogous argument. You have a right to control your property. And your body in many ways it is property. In fact, we recognize children as property. And in many respects, when you're talking about legal disputes, custody disputes between parents, you're talking about property rights to control the health safety upbringing of your child, those are interests that you have a right to, they're called choosers of action. In some some respects. Basically, if someone breaches your interest as the opposing parent, you can bring a cause of action against that person for let's say, damages, or for injunctive relief. And so there is inherently a property interest in some way in your body. And that's where we're going to catch her argument. And I believe that there are a lot of ways to take on the prep act. And I would love for other attorneys as well to reach out to me if they are interested in filing this lawsuit. I don't need the glory. I don't need to be first chair. That's not my role. Anyway, I've tried two cases in my entire life because I'm just a second year attorney. And I know my limitations. What I'm really good at is coming up with unique new arguments to help take on these issues. And I'd be happy to work in the background with any group on these types of cases.

Dr. Paul  29:51  
That sounds really important for our viewers just remind them what in the prep act is so problematic for us.

Ryan Heath  29:58  
Yeah, so the Um, the prep Act was passed following the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Centers. And it was a continuation of the Patriot Act, a lot of people don't seem to understand the way that this works. The prep Act basically states that the the Secretary of Health and Human Services has the capacity to declare based on whatever he wants, essentially, or she wants, that there is an emergency situation. And based on that emergency situation, if that is the case, they can grant liability protections to manufacturers of certain emergency use authorized products, to quell the emergency, so long as the products might have a tendency to reduce the threat. Basically, that's sort of this is a paraphrasing, but that's the standard. And this this act provides complete liability protection to basically anyone within the chain of distribution from the manufacturer to the pharmacy down the street that actually gives out the shot, such that if you are injured by an emergency use authorized vaccine, like the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines, you cannot recover in monetary damages against any of those entities. And so this is a this is a federal statute. And the only way to overcome a federal statute is to go to a superior law, which is the United States Constitution. And that's why it's important to support organizations like mine, the gavel project, which is a constitutional law firm. Well, I guess we're not a law firm. We're a public charity that hires attorneys for the benefit of our applicants. And so yeah, I mean, that's, that's where you have to go. It's all constitutional. You can't fight this any other way.

Dr. Paul  31:56  
Yeah. Thank you for that clarification, folks. If if they declared an emergency, which they can do it at whim, you know, for no reason, or pre planned reason, then the pharmaceutical companies have zero liability, which is true for the childhood vaccines. And it's true for the COVID jabs. If you get injured, you are really on your own. And this is why people who are watching who've had an injury. You all know you get shunned you all of a sudden, nobody wants to talk to you. It's like, You're the problem. But wait a minute, you took one for the team. It's a crazy system. If I'm a pharmaceutical company, and I can get a vaccine, whatever definition you want to use, but get it called to be a vaccine and get it on the childhood immunization schedule, you got guaranteed profit with zero liability. I mean, what a goldmine, right. So this is the big rush, and why I think the vaccine schedule has gotten so compressed. Brian, what do you what do you think about the regular childhood schedule prior to the COVID?

Ryan Heath  33:01  
Well, it's an interesting question coming from you, my wife has read your book, and we actually read it before our first daughter going through and actually followed your method of spacing out the vaccinations for her, you know, I'm not educated enough on this topic to really comment on it. I've been vaccinated, my oldest daughter has been, I know that what we were sold when it came to the mRNA technology is a huge leap from these attenuated non attenuated type vaccines of trying to stimulate immunity and actually provide immunity for the subject disease or for the the target disease, which is not the case here, you're simply trying to provide or stimulating response that might provide immunity in these these new technologies. So I would say that I don't really have a whole lot to comment on the specifics of the prior vaccines, but um, you know, I think people should have the capacity to make whatever decisions they want with their bodies. I'm 100%. Pro choice when it comes to bodily autonomy. And I believe that the government has no interest despite the a large a large body of case law to the contrary, that I believe is unconstitutional and invalid. saying the opposite. You know, the one of the cases that I take issue with is Washington, the glucksberg, which is basically the case saying that the state has an interest in keeping individuals alive despite their own decisions. I'm an absolutist when it comes to this determination. So if your bodily autonomy and if someone is in an old someone is is very old and in a terrible position, and they're in pain every day, that person should be able to make the choice to take their life with the right precautions in place to make sure that that physicians aren't going around practicing eugenics on hopeless people. In this case decided by the supreme court basically said, no, no, you as a citizen don't have absolute bodily autonomy. In fact, the state's interest in your potential, even productivity or potential benefit to the state outweighs your capacity as a citizen to make ultimate decisions like that. I think it's gross, I think it's a FAR Deviation from from what is true liberty. And I think we need to take a step back and really think about, even if the the ideas are a bit ugly, sometimes the concept of what is true about about freedom and what sort of society we want to live in, because some of these decisions, like glucksberg have a slippery slope. And we can see that coming out today, we actually see glucksberg being referenced in to as far as the degradation of parental rights now, it is one of the primary cases that is cited in California, in a case called Palmdale, up something I forget the name of the individual is the early 2000s case, that basically said that parents have zero interests in the upbringing of their children. And this is a Ninth Circuit decision. So it's it's crazy, and glucksberg, I believe, was the start of all of that.

Dr. Paul  36:18  
So well, you touched on something that I wanted to ask you about. And that's the parental rights. And I was trying to get there with my question about the childhood vaccine schedule, I didn't know that you had read my book, I wasn't trying to plant

Ryan Heath  36:31  
that side. And personally, my wife has, and and so I can't claim

Dr. Paul  36:35  
what I was getting at was, you know, if parents don't have a right to decide what's done to their children with regards to their health care, and in this specific example, vaccines, then they've lost the right to bodily integrity, which you're fighting for so hard. And I think it's so important. If parental rights are slipping, which I feel like they are, we have these situations that come up where the child protective services will rush in and take a kid from the parent, because they're not doing what the state wants them to do what the state deems as the right medical decision. And that's even happened in some states and in parents who choose not to vaccinate, and they get their kids taken away. Where do we go with that legally?

Ryan Heath  37:25  
Yeah, the solution in many respects is legislative, there is a legislative solution to that. To pass laws at the local and state level, allowing you to bring claims for causes of action against individual state actors that take away your your your property interests and your children. As well as the fact that we as a society just need to stand up and say no more. There are plenty of ways to take on those issues. In fact, our organization is stepping into that role right now with a case where a young girl was taken away from from her legal guardian, because the legal guardian did not use the proper pronouns. And there were school counselors that came out and testified, claiming that this was child abuse. And then the defense attorney as well, basically stating this, this is child abuse, you can't give this this child this young girl who happens to have assisted by the way, which which is the vast majority of children with early onset gender dysphoria, end up going back to their original sex, because that's just the way that this plays out over time. And we have evidence to back that it's between 60 and 90%, based on every single study that's ever been done on the issue. So, you know, in the same way, I would say that there is a dark interest in the medical field a financial stake in all of these issues from vaccine vaccinations being required to allowing individuals to brainwash children into believing they are the opposite sex and based on that termination, making decisions and giving children the capacity to make decisions at a age before they have the full understanding of the situation so that they have permanent damage to their bodies. I tweeted the other day, and I would encourage folks to follow me on Twitter. I'm at Ryan underscore, l underscore Heath, and at the gavel project as well. But you know, a patient cured as a customer lost a child broken as a customer gained. And there was a report from the AMA president the other day that went up on their website, talking about the dangers of disinformation and the need for individuals to step in the from the government to crack down on disinformation, particularly when it comes to people like yourself speaking out against these issues, and that the president of the AMA went so far as to say basically make the comparison between the dangers of misinformation with respect to COVID-19. And the vaccination has didn't see. And now the same is true with children who need gender affirming care. And I see a correlation right there actually believe that proves a point that I've been saying for a long time, which is these interests, the LGBTQ plus gender affirmation crowd, the Trans activist crowd and the COVID-19 vaccination. Let's call them the COVID regime crowd, all have the same objective in mind. And that's why when I go around speaking at school board meetings all over the country, and different board of supervisors meetings for local county levels, I see the same people advocating for both policies, and its special interest dark money under the surface funding individuals to go around and make these arguments and try to create a facade of support for something that is not widely supported by the general public. And it's it's effective. i There's I started a podcast recently, it's on rumble. I would encourage folks check it out as well. We are at the gavel project, all one word. And I expose the connections between the World Economic Forum and BlackRock to local school districts in Orange County. This is real. This is not a joke. These people are connected and they are pulling strings to try and harm folks for their own financial benefit. And they're using straw organizations like nonprofits to do it.

Dr. Paul  41:29  
Ryan explain that connection a little more clearly. So I get it. You're talking about a local school board and something as big as BlackRock and how, how is how are they pulling those strings?

Ryan Heath  41:43  
Yeah. So there's an individual in Placentia Yorba Linda Unified School District, her name is Carrie Buck, and she is the president of the school board there. And back in January of this year, she unilaterally adopted a a mesh mask policy for the district. And she was appointed to the president position by the way over the winter break. So during the Christmas break, she becomes president the first thing she does when she opens the the very first school board meeting she governs is she reads this statement, excuse me into the record, stating basically that mesh masks are no longer permitted within the district. And as a result of that, she says it. We have to enforce this policy here today in the school board meeting. And within two minutes of opening the meeting, She Bangs her gavel and unilaterally Jordans. Next meeting, this is January 11, January 19. Same exact thing happens. She unilaterally cancels the school board meeting claiming basically that per the order of a local health person named Dr. Chow and he's with the Orange County Department of Health Services, I believe. He's required to put this new mesh mask policy in place. The problem is that Dr. Chow has since refuted that he ever stated anything to that effect. So basically what happened is this woman unilaterally put this policy in place in between the start of the school year in January until February, mid February. There's absolute anarchy happening in her district. I'm talking about kids being kicked out of school by the hundreds each day. School like little work stoppages principals calling into the administration administrative office saying we can't function as a school because we have so much chaos and anarchy on campus. What was happening was that the teachers were kicking kids out based on their political affiliations. Allegedly, that's what it seemed like, they were any kid that didn't like even though for the past year, those kids were allowed to wear these mesh masks without issue all of a sudden they weren't allowed to do it. And so she basically unilaterally adopted this policy and perpetuated the state of chaos from early January, all the way through February.

Dr. Paul  43:56  
And and what's her motivation for doing that?

Ryan Heath  44:00  
That's a good question. So she she is an individual, she works for an organization called encore.org. She she's a relatively sketchy person, I would invite everyone to go do check out my podcast to get the very particulars on all of this because I break it down. I provide examples and everything. But on corp.org is an organization that purportedly exists to try and close the gap between people who are becoming older in years and younger folks, so trying to create this the social cohesion between those two age groups. And she's in the nonprofit industry. She has been for a long time she runs an organization called his house OC which was basically bought up or subsumed by the parent encore. Well, turns out the president of encore this is her employer is a guy named Mark Freeman. And Mark has been recognized by the World Economic Forum as the social entrepreneur of the year. He's been he's A repeated person who appears in The Wall Street Journal. And he happens to have a bunch of people on the board that are related directly to Blackrock to the Omidyar Network to all of these folks. So, in essence, even Ashoka, the Ashoka network, which is one of the, I believe, Bill and Hillary Clinton Foundation, offshoots. So, because of that, I mean, you have literally people's tangled web, isn't it, sitting on the board from these really dark money, interest organizations, and even you know, that employee school board members who appear to be acting in a way to perpetuate chaos perpetuate all, as I mentioned in the college level, to to try and torture children into creating lifetime customers for certain interests. And then that happens to be the interest that these folks are invested in. And so it means,

Dr. Paul  45:52  
yeah, Ryan, you know, this healthy kids healthy individuals make farmer no money. And, you know, naively, I used to think that, you know, well, for the most part, farmers doing good for the world, they're bringing all these drugs that help us. And that was a very naive perspective, because when you dig real deep as you obviously have, while I'm not saying all pharma products, are we useless? I mean, if if you need insulin to survive, and you have type one diabetes, you need insulin. Yeah. But what created the type one diabetes to begin with? That's another whole slippery slope, which we won't go into on this discussion. But autoimmunity is often triggered by aluminum by vaccines, and other toxins as well. Let's wrap it up, I want to give you sort of the last word and bring it back to a viewer who's just a mom or a dad, grandparent whose wants to do the best for their kids. And everything, frankly, that you've shared is a little like, this is wow, it's a lot, right. Yeah. This is your world and you understand it, but but it's a lot. What can what can a mom or a dad or grandpa aunt or uncle that's really worried about their kids? What would you like them to do?

Ryan Heath  47:17  
I would like them to follow me on social media and go to my website as well. So we are at the gavel project pretty much everywhere on Facebook, on Instagram, on Twitter, and into go to my website, the gavel project.com. And there are two calls to action that I'll put forth here. One is to educate yourself, follow me so that I can help educate you on your constitutional rights teach you what it means, in certain circumstances to stand up and draw a line and say, You know what, I know my rights, and I'm not going to allow you to infringe upon those. And to go to our website, the gavel project.com, we need your support, that there are people out there that are busting their bottoms to be able to take on these issues. And I would ask that you please consider making a tax deductible donation on our website, and even recurring donations as well so that we can continue to operate and continue to go out and fight on behalf of these kids because they really need it,

Dr. Paul  48:15  
folks. Knowing our constitutional rights. I grew up in Africa, so I was never trained in the US Constitution. But when you feel like the world is a little out of control, we got to go back to basics. Ryan and the gavel project, what you're doing is incredible. Thank you. Keep fighting brother. And we'll get you back on the show.

Ryan Heath  48:37  
Thank you, Doc Thomas. I appreciate being here.

Dr. Paul  48:45  
Welcome Bernadette back against the wind. Doctors in science under fire. It's always great to have you on the show, you know, Thanksgivings just behind us. And you've got to have a really nice idea about how to celebrate the holidays here.

Bernadette Pajer  48:58  
I do, you know, um, what we really need everybody to do is share the love, share the information about health, and freedom and so much and so I've got some gift ideas for everybody out there. There are three publications in print, as well as the versions that you could consider giving to those on your list. The one in the middle is epic times or Epoch Times. It's pronounced differently depending on who you're talking to. And it's a great one too. For those people kind of middle the road. It's very it's written in traditional journalism style, so it's not inflammatory. They've got a great health section. I really love it. And it's great to get sometimes a real physical print newspaper in your hands. We're also sick of looking at the screen. My own Senator here in Tennessee, when you'd walk into his office, there would be a copy of the The Epoch Times on his desk so it's great have for those in the United States. And if you've got somebody who is ready to hear information that is a bit more hard hitting in a more opinion style, we've got the flame. And you can subscribe to that one. It's all sorts of information about freedom and what's going on in this nation. So check that one out. And then if you're up in Canada, there's one called druthers that you can get. And it's it's similar, it's great hard hitting, you know, pretty well, opinion yet fact, you know, those sorts of things. So I just encourage you to check it out yourself to see if who you're going to send it to, is ready to hear information as presented in these great publications. And then the other thing is give the gift of books and two of my very favorite publishers are sky horse. And Chelsea green. Sky horse actually now has there's a children's health defense imprint, so you can check out their imprint. What I've got here is just a screenshot of their homepage right now, some of the titles and you can see they're all over the place. But a couple that jumped out at me are of course, the real Anthony Fauci underestimated by JB and Jamison handily. You know, we've got ending plague, but you should be able to find in their books that may appeal to just somebody you know, and love that you want to share information, be able to talk about share these insights is for individuals who really want to learn more about healthy living, and sustainable living and all those great new regenerative farming and things. Chelsea Green has got great cookbooks, farming books, health books. And it's really great information to check out. And that could be really good for somebody who doesn't really want to get political with you, but is willing to learn more about how to live a healthy life. So those are great gifts. And I also recommend, maybe putting together one of those just in case kits, that's recommended by the F L CCC, the frontline COVID-19, Critical Care Alliance. I gave one of these last year to my in laws, and they used it, it was fantastic. And I was able, you know to call them up when when they were unwell and guide them on the latest protocols, and doses and amounts that is in a kit. So I encourage your viewers to go to the FLCC and look up the most current recommendation because if things change and they learn, they update, and you can put together a gift basket that's got you know, the best quality vitamin D and C and zinc and other things. Even if you want to take it up a notch, give them a nebulizer so they can do that hydrogen peroxide nebulize, that sort of thing. And then my final

Dr. Paul  53:04  
year, so you're so spot on with the gift basket from FLCC. I was just at their inaugural conference. What an what an amazing team of doctors that have, you know, brought together protocols and approaches for not just long COVID But vaccine injury. And just this morning, I had a conversation with my dad. And he says there's three elderly people in our community who have come down with COVID. And they seem to be sicker than we expected with yes, no, what we're being told about subsequent iterations of COVID seem to be more infectious but less dangerous. And we just don't know. So if you want to be prepared you want when your loved one calls, what are you going to do? Well get prepared. This is a great example.

Bernadette Pajer  53:46  
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I agree to it's a great thing. Make sure you've got one for yourself as well. And then finally, other gift ideas. So of course you can get merchandise from your favorite freedom organizations get people T shirts and hats and magnets for their car, you know, these make great gifts, something they might not want to be buying a lot for themselves. But how fun to open it up and get that great CHD t shirt or something. Give them access to some of the wonderful health and freedom video documentaries that are out there some of them after like a period of time of being free that you got to pay for access to them. And so you can provide those documentary access gift certificates to your local massage therapists acupuncturist herbalist, maybe a hyperbaric oxygen treatment clinic for them to experience that they've got some health issues natural food store, nutritional supplement store, I mean the list goes on. If you help provide them ways to try and test some of these modalities of healing. You might just find help lead them on the path of have some really good health and wellness to celebrate the holidays, and then bring them into the new A year. So those are my ideas for gifts.

Dr. Paul  55:05  
I like them, I think, you know, you and I are in this space of health freedom all the time. So we read a lot, but a lot of our family members and friends and those of you who are listening you, you may also find this to be the case. They're still tuned in to CNN or they're, they're reading the New York Times or, you know, where they get their information greatly affects what they're reading and hearing. And so I like this presentation of here, here are other resources that we should be sharing, and just share it as a launch point for discussion.

Bernadette Pajer  55:39  
Mm hmm. Exactly. Yeah. Tie it all up with a ribbon and give it from your heart with love and, and do do read your friends and loved ones carefully. You don't want to push too hard. It's the holidays. It's supposed to be a gift. So you want to choose carefully what that individual might really like and be open to as opposed to like, You got to read this kind of

Dr. Paul  56:03  
No, that's a very good point. One of those journals i I was sharing it at my office and it happened to have an add in. I mean, the articles were I thought were spot on. But there was an ad for guns now. Showing a semi automatic and this was right at the time. They were another round of shootings, you know, and yeah, and one of my nurses goes, we can't put this out. Because it depends on your audience. Right. So your audience, love them. And we both wish you all a very wonderful holiday season.

Bernadette Pajer  56:35  
We sure do.

Dr. Paul  56:37  
Thanks, Bernadette.

Bernadette Pajer  56:38  
Thank you Dr. Pop.

Dr. Paul  56:45  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member support it we don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors in science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I am Dr. Paul your hosts we're gonna go farming today. I'm speaking to Helio farm owners Theo and Kira and their daughter, Sonia. We talk about regenerative farming orthomolecular farming, raw milk, the importance of supporting small farmers health and food freedom, and decentralizing farming as a key to future food security. We wrap up the show with an interview with yours truly myself and Didi Hoover, discussing some future projects in something we're calling kids first forever. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I have a question for you today. What are you being called to do? Francis of Assisi said, start by doing what's necessary, then do what's possible. And suddenly you're going to be doing the impossible. Do you have an inner voice, calling you to do something maybe to speak up maybe to resist? I've certainly felt that calling quite a bit the last few years, I had a mom reach out to me just today by email. And she said, I am being told to be quiet at work. She works in a hospital setting and she's seeing things going on that are just not right things that need to be changed. She's advocating for the patients and she's being told she must be quiet. And I know a lot of us have experienced this sort of pressure and censorship from our employers from the society at large human. And I just wanted to say you can be that light, you can be love. You can speak the truth. Do it with courage. Do it with love. You know, it just takes a spark to light a fire. And sometimes maybe we have to be that spark. So I call on all of us. Let's do that. Let's do what we're being called to do. Take a stand. Let's do it for our kids. Let's do it for our families. Let's do it for our nation and for our world. I'm Dr. Paul, thanks

Welcome to against the wind. I have the pleasure of introducing a family that's doing some incredible work in the farming arena. Sonia, finish you are you are the daughter of the couple that sitting with us. Correct. And you are a founder of Oregon LIBERTY NETWORK. We'll have you later. Tell us a little bit about that. And then Theo and Kira Weidman you founded Helios farms in 2012 with a vision of decentralizing the US food supply back to local farms that use no agricultural chemicals or pharmaceuticals, right? Fantastic. I know you've pioneered orthomolecular regenerative farming methods private Association farm business model to drive your vision into reality. So I'm going to be looking forward to hearing more about that. Theo, your background is pretty spectacular. You've got a degree with honors in Engineering Physics from Oregon State University, you founded a publishing company, you founded a technical writing and software localization firm, you produced a documentary film titled grid iron Gladiators, and with Kara you've built a high end recording studio business. Kara, you've boarded and train horses that was in the 80s then you were a commercial artist in the 90s. And you've always raised and butchered your own food animals studying European butchery under the tutelage of a German butcher. So there's so much for us to learn from all of you, the Helios mission, that sort of a convergence I understand the field and curious life experience and applying your farming butchery technical, scientific business, legal culinary, health sciences background, that's a mouthful to create a profitable and resilient livestock farming model. under the pen name, Theo farmer, Theo, you've written about food, health, farming and all of that. So again, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker  4:07  
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Unknown Speaker  4:09  
Very much. Pleasure to be here.

Dr. Paul  4:10  
Perfect. I'm really interested in maybe just to start with just share your backgrounds, the parts that I missed in my introduction, so that people get a better sense of who you are, and then I'll ask you a few questions.

Unknown Speaker  4:25  
Okay, I'll start I was raised on a small farm in Silverton, Oregon and and I work with farmers at that time and out in the fields driving equipment. My parents used to ask me what I was learning out there in the fields and I respond by saying, you I'm learning I don't want to be a farmer. And I think that that was a response to what I saw as far as the commercial farming there was. The farmers didn't seem to have much control over what they plan And then what they put on their fields, cetera, et cetera, and then move forward. You know, I got my degree and I went into technology. So I was a technologist in the 80s and 90s, with software localization. And then in the 80s, and 90s, also, my children had a lot of health issues. I had a son who had a brain tumor and a disabled child. And so that threw me into a look at our medical system. And I didn't, what I saw wasn't very pretty. And so by around the 2000s, I was learning about ortho molecular healing, high dose nutrients, I studied some of the things that Linus Pauling was pointing to. And so we basically we, we came at farming what Kira when had been lactose intolerant all of her life. So she, they call it lactose intolerance. And so if she had any kind of dairy product, it would create huge digestive issues. Right away. We weren't we found out that through some research, that she might be able to handle raw milk. And so we we went out to get raw milk and went to a farm that had it and we got some got a half gallon, and Kira was able to drink the whole half gallon over a couple of days with zero issues. So there were a lot of between the orthomolecular kind of exposure that I had, by the time I was in my 50s, I was realizing that the way we treated our children with all the vaccines and all the pharmaceuticals and all that stuff in the mainstream during the 80s. And 90s was a big, probably a big cause of the problems that they had. And so we started putting our minds to well, how can we do this with no pharmaceuticals? How can we do a farm with no agricultural chemicals we started, when we found out that Kira could drink raw milk, we tried to get on a list to get raw milk steadily. And in Oregon, that what turned out to be a big challenge. The farm that we got it from had a waiting list we got on their waiting list. And they would they never, we never got to the top of the waiting list. So because of my early farm background, we decided well, let's just get our own dairy cow then. And that was about 2008 or 2009. And so we got a cow. And when I had an acre, we had an acre in Corvallis, which is plenty for a cow. And so we started milking her. And then we realized that she was producing five gallons a day, which is way more than one family can drink. So we decided we would share it or sell it. And so we put a fridge on the porch. And then we found out that it was illegal at the time to advertise raw milk in Oregon. And so we we advertised for free we advertised collaborative milk, which is a people who get raw milk would know what what clattered milk is. And so we started right off the bat trying to work around the legal framework in Oregon. And then God told cows to be fruitful and multiply. So after a while, we had six cows on this acre of land in Corvallis. And that's that was actually we were out of compliance with the statutes of Oregon because if you're selling raw milk from your farm, you can only own three cows and only melt two cows. And so we did a little research and we came across the farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund back in Washington DC and they said Oh, you guys have to switch to a herd share contract. And so we we went ahead and started. We worked with them to produce a herd share contract and because we were also offering butchering animals by then we decided we're going to do livestock shares as well. And the idea of contract moving under contract law was really appealing to us. And so then, in addition to that, we were meeting all these amazing people like from the Weston A price foundation and all these folks that knew about really good food and knew the deception of the raw milk thing and all that and so we thought well, at the time I had sold my technology company, I was a consultant and it was like, Alright, why don't we just go into this big time and just do the farming full time. So we ended up moving to this 160 acre farm in young kala. And we came here with about four cows in 2012. And then we those cows now we have 60 cows, so they really do multiply when you put them on land and feed the morass. So yeah, so

Dr. Paul  10:32  
anyway, about herd of 66 Zero.

Unknown Speaker  10:35  
Yeah, 60 cows that were milking 15 Right now, because a lot of them, we raise cows with no pharmaceuticals, no vaccines, and those are really hard cows to find in organic. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  10:49  
The milking must be by machine if you have that many cows.

Unknown Speaker  10:52  
Yeah, we're milking with that we use a surge milker which Cap captures each cow's milk individually. And then we pour it right into the jars from that the surge milk or so the milk we produce is called single milk because the the name of the cow that produced it is on the jar. So

Dr. Paul  11:14  
people get very cool. Very personal. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  11:18  
it's very personal. That's part of what we want to do is reconnect people to the beauty of of the garden essentially, in the end, amazing food supply that God provides. So yeah.

Dr. Paul  11:33  
So you started with cows. Have you expanded beyond cows?

Unknown Speaker  11:37  
Yes, yeah, when we moved here, we, we bought a hog operation, because when you have cows, you have a lot of excess milk. And the traditionally, a dairy has hogs and raises hogs because the skim milk was considered a waste product. And they would use that to feed the hogs and raise the hogs. And so there's this integrated aspect to what we do. We have hogs, we have chickens, we're producing eggs, the chickens love the the their feed to be soaked in sour milk and hogs. Their their stuff is soaked in sour milk. So there's this lacto fermentation that goes on over the last decade. There's a few things that kind of developed early on, we became anti vaccine advocates because we found that we didn't need them for one thing with cows and cows are real similar to people. But also our God or Sonia, who's here had had had had her first child in Corvallis. And he was what's known as a vitamin C baby. Never didn't go to the doctor never got any vaccines.

Dr. Paul  12:53  
So it was like we should let let Sonia tell that story. Yeah. Tell us what it was like growing up with these nutty parents. You No, right. Yeah. And your your journey as as to figuring out how to live healthy and live off the land, so to speak. Yeah, so

Sonja Feintech  13:11  
I grew up in Corvallis. When I got pregnant with my first son at 21. His name is Helios, which is who the farm is named after because he kind of instigated the whole thing, like we eat healthy, and we were pretty mindful about our health. But it really took a turn when I was pregnant with him. And I actually was gifted a book, which is the Weston A price, foundation, wise traditions cookbook. And I started reading that was blowing my mind. And so we went and got the raw milk. And we started learning about vitamin C. And at first when people were like, Oh, are you gonna vaccinate your kid? I was like, Well, yeah, that's just what you do. And then I started kind of thinking being like, Well, if that's my automatic response, maybe I should look into it a little bit more. And so then we started kind of rejecting anything that had an automatic response without thought behind it, and sort of exploring all these different ways of doing things. And then like, via

Dr. Paul  14:06  
that, I want to highlight that, yeah, reject anything that you have an automatic response to. Nobody has ever said that on the show or in my entire life. Knowing what I now know, and I'm 65 You're spot on?

Sonja Feintech  14:20  
Yeah, it's a real thing. Because like, it's like, Oh, who's whose truth? Am I speaking right now? Like, is it something that comes from your parents? Or is it something that comes from the TV? And then if you actually start digging into it being like, oh, okay, like, this actually doesn't come from anywhere. And it's actually it's not truth for me. So then you have to, you know, then you end up researching and digging and whatever,

Dr. Paul  14:41  
you are so brilliant. So you just did another one, whose truth are you listening to or speaking and spouting? I get in these arguments with people I try to say the truth is singular. I mean, the truth is the truth. And then I'll have people come back and say, Yeah, but there's they have their truth. And that's what you're speaking to whose truth are you spouting? And yeah, carry on you, you're just wisdom after wisdom,

Sonja Feintech  15:06  
I have to credit my husband a little bit because he came up with the slogan, whose ideas are your ideas? And that one really, like, set it off for me. So yeah, anyways, it opened up this whole rabbit hole of things. So next thing I know, we've, you know, basically fled Corvallis to this farm in the middle of nowhere, where we're raising cows and, you know, drowning in raw milk and vitamin C and babies and, and it was it was really cool. And I was there with them for about off and on for about 10 years. And I have my second daughter there who was also home birth also unvaccinated. And it's funny, because it's kind of like you live in a, it's a canyon. So you kind of live in this bubble of reality, you're surrounded by, you know, birth and death and harvest and babies and, and all that stuff. And then my husband and I, shortly after we got married, decided to move to Portland, or, you know, access to career stuff for him and activities for the kids. And we thought, Oh, I'll be fine. You know, I've never lived in a city. My husband is from LA. So he was like, okay, you know, here we go. And I was pregnant with my third. So here we are in the city. And we're both from the farm, you know, living rurally. And we're stuck in the middle of Portland during the whole COVID thing. You know, I had my baby in my apartment building in Portland, like, I was still trying to, you know, do my thing. And, and it was pretty wild. That was a really big awakening for me. Because for me, like my, our form of protest, or our way of voting for things was just to do the things. So it's like, why I'm going to protest the pharmaceutical companies by just opting out, and I'm going to protest the vaccination schedule by opting out. But until all of this stuff was really like, at literally at my door, I realized that I needed to get a little bit more involved or I was gonna go mad. I was gonna go crazy in Portland. So I started during medical freedom protests. I actually met you at the vigil because I was on a rampage of meeting anyone and everyone that was a medical freedom leader. And so I actually I think I might have scared you a little bit because I came running up to you from behind was the guy Nice to meet you.

Dr. Paul  17:24  
But you looked familiar now I remember.

Sonja Feintech  17:27  
Yeah, like. And, yeah, sorry, through medical freedom rally in Oregon City on nading. Three years ago now. And it was super successful. And then I started working with free Oregon. So I was the political action director for free Oregon for somewhere under a year just while it was kind of getting on its feet and turning into what it is now. And I was working with Oregonians for medical freedom and children's health defense putting on a bunch of events. We did a big waterfront event with Dell big tree. I don't know if you spoke at that one. Yeah, I was there. Okay, now you were there. So for me, it was it was kind of a crazy escalation for what I'm used to, which is living on a farm and things just being kind of slow, and like you're actually dealing with real life death. But then getting into the political realm of things where you're dealing with things, you know, you're dealing with people and issues and putting on a fence and rallies and, and it was just interesting to have that balance in my life. And now I'm able to pull from my background, which is farming. But then now I have all of these connections and people I've met and leaders and people that are really important, and they have really important things to say out there that need to get out there. And I can kind of put those together into what I'm doing now.

Dr. Paul  18:49  
Thank you so much for that. So this regenerative farming that you're doing, why is it so relevant and describe it in a little more detail?

Unknown Speaker  19:00  
So that this has been developed for us? And it's basically to answer the questions. It's what had gone in 10 with food. And if we erase the last 100 150 years of agriculture, and all that interventions, like, you know, if you look at the vaccine industry, it's about interventions, right? Some kind of story, some kind of disease, and then some kind of prevention, that product that's released. And so man's interventions or God's design, and in our case, we always chose God's design and when you remove all the interventions, what happens is you are stewards of a regenerative process, the soil fertility starts regenerating, the animal health starts regenerating you actually, I would say that we're very complete li eliminating disease with the high dose nutrients and paying attention to microbiome science. So there's a

Dr. Paul  20:11  
true for your livestock as well as your own lives.

Unknown Speaker  20:13  
Yes, yeah. So like especially, yeah, but both really, but the livestock is pretty. They're disease free once you once you've quit, you know, intervening at birth and things like that with shots and their immune systems get stronger and stronger over the years over the seasons. And so

Dr. Paul  20:36  
share with our viewers because this is actually news to me. I know pediatrics, I know medicine, I don't know livestock management, what what kind of vaccination schedule would they typically be on and I, what other interventions are being done in a typical farm that you don't do?

Unknown Speaker  20:53  
So that there's one of the things that we do is we work in the private domain, which means we don't, we don't follow the state threat statutes as far as how to treat cows. But when cows are born, there's vaccine requirements. Essentially, there's diseases that are basically described, and when that disease is described, it has a product that you vaccinate your cat. So tetanus would be a simple example. You know, you give your cow a tetanus shot, if you're going to castrate it. Well, a better approach for us is to learn how to prevent tetanus because it's an aerobic disease. And so if you castrate them in a way that creates an anaerobic situation, then you see tetanus, we saw it once. And that was a big lesson on how to prevent it because we we really neglected that animal created an anaerobic wound, and then it got tetanus and died. So now it's like, okay, so it's so easy to prevent tetanus, you know, so for us, it's about, well, let's learn about the disease or learning about the microbe that they're talking about. Is it really a problem? Is it you know, so there's all these legacy vaccines, like when when a calf is born, you have to give them this, this and this? And it's like, yeah, we're what, what are those diseases about in the first place? Are they some of them marking their requirements for diseases that I think we're kind of architected or there were the, they were products of probably pesticides and chemicals that were introduced on farms, and that created an environment where that the microbes would get out of control or something, and then that would get defined as a disease, they'd come out of the product for disease, it's kind of, and then they would, you know, require everybody to do this vaccine. So there's one of those vaccines that is required, the disease was eliminated in Oregon, like in 1980, that never seen the disease. And I think it was probably a product of some kind of feed thing, pesticide thing, there's so many things that were going on that would cause a microbe to become an overgrowth in a few animals may be that and then they, they, so they create these policies, but the policies that can be re examined and maybe thrown out based on new science. So the science that our farm really goes after is microbiome science and orthomolecular science

Unknown Speaker  23:37  
and I would say one of the major differences between I mean, there's many, they're all different between us and an industrialized food supplies firm is our animals are not concentrated in that way. So they and the ground is not sterile it is it is full chock full of beneficial bacteria that are the animals are interacting with, then they're interacting with the soil. And so we just not seeing the kinds of things that you would in a really barren environment where there's you just got a concentration of animals you have to keep well or looking well with some kind of pharmaceutical product, maybe dealing with symptoms of a really sick system that are in

Sonja Feintech  24:37  
okay, I actually pulled up a shortlist of the vaccines because I was curious to I have written it down before but so it's a ibkr Bvd p 13. Don't know what these are VRSC virus leptospirosis, cholesterol. Cluster deal. I don't know what sure that is. E. coli mastitis calf diarrhea. He had diseases and then annually they do five of those every year, and then different ones prior to breeding. So it's, you know, and I don't even know what those are right? Like, that's, they're just putting those into the cows. And you can go get, you know, organic meat from the store, and it's going to be antibiotic free, and, you know, no more growth hormone and things like that, or no. But they're still getting vaccinated all those vaccines.

Dr. Paul  25:24  
Wow. I had no idea.

Unknown Speaker  25:27  
Yeah. And they're also coming out with mRNA vaccines for cattle sex, right,

Dr. Paul  25:33  
that they're requiring really has that started yet?

Unknown Speaker  25:37  
I'm not sure. Again, we're so we're, we're like, probably not the people that talk to you about what the requirements are. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  25:44  
but that, that just was like a BAM, that yeah, cannot you start eating meat that's mRNA. altered? Yeah, you're putting, you're putting those sequences in your own body.

Unknown Speaker  25:59  
Exactly. And so so when you just brought up this long list of vaccines that they are getting, we don't even know what those are. But those don't think those aren't ending up in the mill, don't take those aren't ending up in the meat. And in the fat, especially.

Unknown Speaker  26:18  
So part of part of our emphasis is, let's pay, let's figure out what God's design was in the first place, because we've lost touch with them. And a really good starting point is to look at our human knowledge of milk. And, and, and the fact that, you know, women when, what, when they're like having children, that's the first time they really get a realization that they're mammals at all, and that they produce milk. And they don't know much about milk, no one ever teaches about milk. But over the years, we've learned a lot about milk, for example, and it has a lot to do with microbiome science. So when a calf is born, it goes up to its mother's ughter, and grabs onto a T and that T is jet is dirty, nobody's washed that teat. So it's getting a sample of the microbiome, basically a mouthful of poo. And that's the microbiome of the whole herd. And then the milk is specifically designed to nourish microbes in the gut along the way. So as the cap is growing, it's nursing. And there's components in mammals milk that don't even nourish mammal cells, they nourish microbial cells. And this is all really comes real clear. If you read like the human super organism, or some of the latest microbiome science, it's about, well, these babies are born as mammal babies. And a big part of the human quest at birth, and the calf quest at birth is to collect all the microbes around them, and let them milk select which ones should be in their gut. And there's certain times in their development where certain microbes are implanted in the gut. So that same thing is true with cows and with humans. And the microbiome is very, very similar in our gut microbiome in that the so when you see a little baby at about two or three months, they start sticking everything they can in their mouth. So they're trying to sample all the microbes around them in the microbiome. And then the milk is nourishing the right microbes and ignoring the pathogenic microbes. And so they get a microbiome garden throughout their gut in as long as there's no interventions. Now, if you look, for example, at Wakefield's work, he was like, well, this vaccine is going right to the gut and destroying the microbiome. And that's kind of a summary of what his paper said, and then it causes this diarrhea and then these kids are, you know, regressing. And so your gut brain and all that all that science is really important in milk. Raw milk is what what creates that balance microbiome.

Unknown Speaker  29:18  
And I want to say that, we like to say that the land of milk and honey was not pasteurized.

Dr. Paul  29:26  
So I want to visit your farm and get some footage for our viewers of what it really looks like working on a farm. And as soon as you build a list of resources, I'll help you get it out there. We this is a real thing. It's a real movement and I consider you guys partners and let's pioneer in this. I have lots to learn from you. You can each give your closing thoughts that you would like the listener to consider.

Unknown Speaker  29:53  
All right, um, my my emphasis is that if we fix it Food System we actually can do, we're going back doing battle with the pharmaceutical system. So the first step is to fix the food system and to really understand it, to understand microbiome, the microbiome is and it's the latest science that is just suppressed sciences not not emphasized to understand that, and the multigenerational aspect of it is where health true health comes from nutrients good a balanced microbiome and, and eliminating these attitudes and things that have been. So if we fix the food system, we re localize it decentralize it. We're going to eliminate the power that pharmaceutical industry has over the over the people.

Dr. Paul  30:50  
Let food be thy health. That's right. Thanks, Kara. What are your closing thoughts? Kara?

Unknown Speaker  30:56  
My closing thoughts are all of you out there who know there's something wrong in the system, you know, deep down, it's one thing or the other, you know, there's something wrong and system, opt out of it. And use your use your strengths to seek action that you can take and skills you can get, and supporting things that you believe in and opt out of the systems that aren't working for you. And that you see aren't working for your neighbors on so this farm

Unknown Speaker  31:34  
here ask how can I help? How can I

Unknown Speaker  31:37  
ask your farm? How can I help today? And we'll tell you and we will help you.

Dr. Paul  31:43  
Fantastic opt out and ask your local farmer and Sonia finish it out for us what do you want people to remember

Sonja Feintech  31:51  
to look at everything that's going on holistically. So the full picture, we do a lot of treating the symptom, you know, we're fighting against that we're we're fighting to keep our kids in these schools we're fighting to, you know, keep our grocery shelves stocked. And, and really, you have to go a little bit farther back and look at as a whole what's broken. And the fact is that all these structures are very, very broken. And we can keep on trying to fight in that system. Or you can say, You know what, let's take a step back. And let's look at what's really important, which is human potential. It all starts with health, you know, you can we can address pharmaceutical issues all day. But why do we Why do they think we need these pharmaceuticals? Why is that such a huge industry? What are we eating? What are they telling us to eat? So it really, it all comes back to a pretty condensed idea about how to fix the broken things? And what might be the answers to some of those questions. And I think that it starts with beginning of life. So you know, babies, what the babies are eating, what the mothers are eating? Where do we get our food, and our connection to all of that. So

Dr. Paul  33:05  
beautiful. I want to thank all three of you. This has been I've got goosebumps kind of interview for me. You all are such a blessing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I can't wait to meet you in person. All right. I'm

Unknown Speaker  33:19  
looking forward to it. Thank you, Dr. Paul.

Sonja Feintech  33:21  
Thank you for having us.

Dr. Paul  33:30  
Dr. Paul, welcome to another episode. This is a unique one. I have beside me DD Hoover, who is an incredible influence in my life. She has been body worker and coach wellness coach for pediatric practice integrative pediatrics for few years now. My own personal wellness coach when I was going through all the stuff I've been going through, we'll chat a little bit more about that. And she is helping me manage this show against the wind and we'll be taking your questions as we go forward. She's the one you're interacting with. So why don't you meet the Hoover? Very close friend and so important and everything we're doing here? Today she's interviewing me, so have at it.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  34:12  
Here we go. All right. Okay, Dr. Vom, so tell me what's happening. I've heard that something's changed in your life with Oregon Medical Board, and your license.

Dr. Paul  34:25  
Big things happens. We're going to share those Can I start a little bit of history for maybe folks who haven't ya heard my story? Yep. Okay. I was raised in Africa, went to medical school, became a pediatrician. When taught residents and medical students went into private practice 13 years into private practice. The last four years I had a child who was doing perfect at age 12 months or 18 months regressed into severe autism by age two, that fourth case broke my heart. I'm still in touch with that family weekly. He's 16. Now he's still nonverbal. He hits his head. It's done. horrendous life and I knew the moment I walked in that day. It wasn't good. So, why, right? Why was this going on? Nobody was answering that question. I've been in a deep dive of research had already come to a understanding, or at least a sense that there's something we're doing that is harming these kids. I was suspicious, it was the vaccines. And it became clear that they were related, as I heard more and more and more stories. So you'll have these parents tell you, my kid got a shot, got a vaccine, and the next day I lost my kit. And you hear that once? That's Oh, that's interesting. What

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  35:37  
a sad by losing their their kid, you mean, they're just

Dr. Paul  35:41  
gone, right? They're not dead. But there's nobody home, right? You go from a smiling, active, interacting talking child, to somebody who's spinning in circles hitting their head, playing by themselves and can't interact or make eye contact. It's devastating. So that's a case of severe autism, hundreds of those stories were rolling in for me. That's when I went to my partners. And I said, I can't do business. As usual. I know, I can't do a hepatitis B vaccine for a newborn who doesn't need it. It doesn't make sense. That vaccine has so much aluminum. And there's zero need for it for those moms who are known to be happy, negative anyway, as one example. So I started integrating pediatrics, we had a different vaccine schedule. Let's fast forward a number of years. Now it's becoming real clear. As more and more families are joining in, I'm having more and more families who are choosing not to vaccinate. So how can you allow that Doc? Right? Well, we give informed consent. So if you came to me and you said, we have autism in our family, we have story after story of kids getting shots and going into severe autism, we don't want to vaccinate our kids anymore. I would honor that. That's informed consent, the foundation of our office. So then I wrote the vaccine friendly plan. It was published in 2016. It was just a different way of doing things. There's the CDC schedule. There's other ways of doing things. It wasn't like mine was the only book there's the vaccine book Dr. Sears wrote, which gave some other ideas. And that seemed to start the process that starts approaching your question, right. So the medical board starts coming with various complaints and complaints and complaints. And some of you been watching the show know that. It's come to a head. So in January of 2019, I got a letter saying prove that the vaccine friendly plan is as safe as the CDC schedule. I remember when that letter going, This is ridiculous. How can you prove it? The CDC can't prove that what they're doing is any better than what they did the year before, or any better than doing nothing? Or it's just they just do. Somebody gave me the idea, do a quality assurance analysis of your data. Brilliant. So we hired an expert to come in independent thinker, this guy's he came in says, you know, I'm a nerd. And I just go with the data. I don't know what we're going to find this. And I don't know either. I was a little suspicious. I knew what he'd find. But I really didn't know. First day comes up.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:09  
Are you nervous? Slightly?

Dr. Paul  38:12  
I kind of knew, but you just don't know. Right? Right. And the point is, if we had found out that kids who were following the vaccine friendly plan, we're in danger. I needed to know that. Or if they're benefiting from it, that'd be important information as well. When it comes out of the office, the first day of diving into the data says, I know I'm not supposed to notice the data. I'm just gathering it. But Paul, this is incredible. Your unvaccinated patients just don't get sick. Those were his exact words. And he went on and spent a week got all the data collected at all. We published it in what became the real powerful real world data Vax on vac study, with Jack Lyons Wheeler that was ultimately retracted.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:52  
Thankfully, just because it retracted.

Dr. Paul  38:56  
One complaint, who said that it's invalid, he hypothesized that people who don't vaccinate, they don't go to health care visits, they don't seek medical care. So of course, your data is going to show that the unvaccinated don't have much going on because they never see doctors anyway. It's actually theoretically a very good point. So we had already looked at it, and we actually addressed it in the first article, but a second article was just published that did a deep dive into that question, and found that our Unvanquished patients had more well child visits than their vaccine counterparts. So completely put to rest that major complaint that that person had made. So we now in addition to that this new publication that Jack Lyons Wheeler and Russell Blaylock did, Russell Blaylock pediatric neurologists written a lot extensively was let's look at what happens when patients stop vaccinating and compare them to those who continue vaccinating out. If you had proposed that question to me, my theory would have been those who stopped vaccinating. They're seeing a problem. Those who continue vaccinating have healthy kids are not worried about it. So I would have thought it would have shown that those who stopped vaccinating have more damaged kids more sick kids more issues, they found the exact opposite. Those who stopped vaccinating at whatever point they stopped, compared to those who continue vaccinating. It was like four or five times as many health problems for those who continue vaccinating.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  40:33  
Well, that makes sense to me. If you think about it, it does, yes. Because if you're doing something that's not good for you, or you could have a reaction to and you stop it, then you're not going to have a reaction. If you keep vaccinating, then there's a possibility of having a reaction.

Dr. Paul  40:48  
You're absolutely right. In fact, that is why we would advise in our practice, that if you're seeing something of concern, just stop, don't keep pounding them with something that might be causing a problem. So we think a lot of like, now, let's fast forward to December of 2020. They take my license on an emergency basis, because I'm a threat to public health. This was five days after my article was just published, which was a strange coincidence, to sequences to coincidence, six months later, they gave it back because they realized they had taken it without.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  41:25  
I remember that a friend of yours suggested that if it was illegal, then Why could they do it?

Dr. Paul  41:30  
Yeah, that friend happens to be sitting right here. Anyway, that was a really good idea. By the way. You have good ideas. Thank you. Sometimes, Why hang on to this one. All right. So let's just fast forward. I've had 30 Plus letters from the board requesting various things, no patient complaints, but complaint complaint letters, they call them since I lost my license. That's about one a month or no more. It's it's just been an incredible. They have stacked up this list of complaints. And unsubstantiated that really, I couldn't refute them. We could fight them. And we have. But what was coming down the pike was a three week hearing with the Oregon Medical Board, which for can you

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  42:21  
explain what what a hearing is as opposed to a trial?

Dr. Paul  42:25  
Yes, a trial, especially at trial by jury, then you are given that opportunity to have your peers the jury assess the validity of the complaints and the information of both sides. And that should be a fair way. It's actually an a wonderful thing we have in our country, not that all trials are end up fair, but at least you have a shot. When it's just in front of a judge, if it was a neutral judge, and the judges rulings were binding. There's possibility you could get a fair trial there as well. What happens in Oregon is is an Oregon State appointed judge, you're going up against the Oregon State Medical Board. On top of that, the judge just makes recommendations. So imagine, we've got these 30 letters of complaint six different formal complaints, things as minut as well, you ordered MMR titers on a patient 10 years ago, and the mumps was not active. So you should have had that patient get the mumps vaccine. Well, they didn't want it. But I should have made it happen. And I didn't. So that's a violation. And you could get fined violation of what standard of care. This is what medical boards use nowadays are actually going after you for misinformation and disinformation. But we don't even need to go there with mine. It was simply this sort of standard of care notion. And what was odd about this one for me was really it all boiled down to informed consent. The Oregon Medical Board was challenging my right to provide informed consent. I was

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  44:01  
supposed to be there just because I think most people understand what informed consent means. But just clarifying that informed consent means you're telling somebody correct, like informed consent in regards to a vaccination, is you explaining what that vaccine is what it is for everything about it, correct? Yes. And then that means the parent then has the right to choose because they've been given informed consent. Is that

Dr. Paul  44:29  
right? Yeah, you should be given the pros, the cons and the alternatives. So in the case of a vaccine, you should have the option to take it or not take it. That's informed consent. If there's no option, and this is what's happening in all pediatric practices around the country, almost all you have to take the CDC schedule or there's the door. Right, they're calling that informed consent because I'm going to hand you this little thing called vizzes Vaccine Information Sheet put out by the CDC, that kind of touches very minimally on problems with vaccines, but oh, look at all these diseases that we're going to save you from. Now you've been informed, the nurse will be in with your vaccine. If you don't want it well then out. That's not informed consent. That's coercion. It's, it's what's going on in this country? Right? Yep. So we provide informed consent. And that's apparently not okay.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  45:26  
Right. So sorry, you're gonna fight them.

Dr. Paul  45:30  
So you ask tough questions. I am in this till I die as far as fighting for kids freedom, fighting for informed consent, and doing what's right. You know, when you know what's right, and you turn your back to that? I can't do that. So I wanted to fight all the way. Right. There's this three week hearing, that's a kangaroo court that is every single attorney I've consulted, said yes, you will lose. And as you lose, you will pay for your attorneys fees, their attorneys fees, and the fines and the way the board had stacked up all these MMR little things, almost 100 of those and the fine could be in the millions, certainly up to a million and all their fees. And it when every expert I talked to says, Paul, I don't What are you doing? Right? And I even had a very prominent attorney from back east say, well, we just had a win in Maine, we you should fight it. So I looked into it, that that doctor who won in Maine had a jury trial, right? Oh, if we had a jury trial, let's go right. So rather not, you're done. So rather than fight that, we have just this is the breaking news you've been trying to get to. Sorry, it took so long. I just wanted people to have the history. So with a lot of thought and deliberation, and that still doesn't feel right, that I had to sign this thing to let it go away. But my attorney was able to negotiate them writing off everything. They're dropping everything except they get to file because it's the law. This was so annoying. They get to file all their charges anyway, with the national data bank. So people who go to the national data bank will think, oh, wow, this guy's terrible, because they use all these derogatory terms about you, that have not been proven right. And I didn't get my day in court. But it wouldn't have mattered how they had my day in court, the system is just rigged in that way. So I'm continuing to fight in this way. I'm fighting the board by suing them individually. And I'm told that won't go well. But we can appeal. And more importantly, we have this show, right? We have a new program that I'm starting called Kids First forever, with somebody very near and dear to me. Oh, that's, you know, yeah. So that's going to be a way that we can educate, we can inform, we can teach, we can. So you're not going to have a license, but I won't be licensed. So I will not be diagnosing and treating in Oregon in Oregon. I currently have a license in Washington and Hawaii and I may choose to get licensed in other states, or try to. It's very difficult, I believe I'm told that

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:15  
there's better ways to do what you want to do, right? Absolutely. So what are you gonna do?

Dr. Paul  48:19  
Do what I'm supposed to do? Okay, well, when

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:21  
do you no longer have a license?

Dr. Paul  48:23  
That will be on December 5? This year? So in about five weeks? Okay. Six weeks, seven weeks?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:29  
Okay. Five? Are you excited?

Dr. Paul  48:32  
Actually, I am. So I have to tell you. If it weren't for this woman here, I would be a mess. You have this ability to coach in in a such? I don't know how to put it. You never told me what to

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:52  
do. I guess it's not up to a coach to tell you what is what

Dr. Paul  48:54  
do you want to do? Well, I don't know. What do you want to do? I don't know. And you will have you thought about this. And it just is such a such an amazing process. And I've watched you coach teenagers who are anxious, depressed, going, suicidal going through, and I've watched them just blossom. So I thought, wow, what better than pairing up with somebody with that skill set? So I'm excited about kids first forever. I'd be kind of curious to ask you now. What's your vision for kids first forever? And what's yours? What led you to want to do this?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  49:34  
Well, as you know, and one thing I want to say about coaching is that you are coachable. There are times when I'm when I'm coaching whether it's kids or parents and you have to work to make the changes and to see things and for you. I'm going to tell on you now. Oh my god years ago, you had such a big huge ego and just thought you knew every Thinking. And you would talk to people that way. And because you did, you did know what was right and wrong for these people's kids and your mind, you knew those things. But I think sometimes, like I learned with you and you learned through is that we all have the soul, there's four parts to us, which is what kids first forever is about. And that is your spiritual connection. And I think that's one of the most important physical, mental and emotional, everything that you went through with, with the state. And now with your practice, because I know that's another question you should probably answer is people want to know, I mean, integrated pediatrics is, it's amazing. It's one of the very, very few types of this pediatric clinic where parents get informed consent. I know, it's one of the only ones in Oregon and very, very few across the world. So I know that you starting that baby and having that that it was important to you to find something to be able to continue to do that, and is working so closely together. And in the same office, seeing what my work represented and working with these kids from birth up that it helped you to see, maybe your soul kind of got stuffed a little bit. And so you woke up. And I don't, I don't know if I'm supposed to talk to the camera or not. But for those of you that are out there, the difference is and the work that Dr. Pol put forth, is so powerful, and was so needed to be able to help so many people, he's done it through this show, he still continues to do it with his patients, and everybody around you. And being able to come to that place has been I have to tell you, it's been an incredible thing to watch and to see. And to know that I helped you to lie No. So kids first forever is about those four areas. And I had a very rough childhood, and a lot of things that that I that I struggled through, I had a rough time as a teenager and coming into my own and finally finding my passion, which was to work to help people prevent pain. And I started off when I first started going to body workers started with pregnancy and infinite work. And then all of a sudden, I started to notice, especially about 1015 years ago, people were becoming addicted to pain medications. And some people wanted massage to help with the pain, but it wasn't preventing it. It was dealing with it. It was band aids and things to help get through pain. And I was like, I want to work on the side of preventing pain. And pain isn't just physical. It's emotional. It's spiritual. It's, it's mental. And there's so many mental health issues and watching what people were going through my own family, my own sister, losing her battle with mental health and drug addiction. So I want to prevent it. So I thought, Oh, I prayed for a pediatrician. About seven years ago, God handed me one to work with to work in your practice to help kids. And I we started with kids with scoliosis, and some older kids and wellness coaching and all that working with sports. These kids already had pain. I'm like, What the heck, they're having pain. You I was working on five year olds with migraines, what is going on? So came into the clinic started working with you with newborns. And it was like, Oh, my goodness,

Dr. Paul  53:17  
you stole my title to I was the baby whisperer. Folks, there is no better baby whisperer than this one when you get a baby in your hands, and they just melt. And I thought it was magic, because I didn't realize you were working. Right.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  53:30  
But that's where we start. Is it birth? Birth can be traumatic. Yeah. So starting then, and raising kids in this healthy way. That was my passion. I wanted to prevent what happened to me as a child from happening to other kids. So I just came up with kids first forever. And you were you're living it and doing it too. So we decided to join forces.

Dr. Paul  53:53  
And I think we'll be a pretty strong team. I have some medical background, you have this wisdom and ability to touch the soul even plus the bodywork talent and skill and ability. What we've been able to do already is incredible. And now we're going to bring it to the world. So this is pretty exciting.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  54:11  
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So we have a speaking event coming up. You have a speaking event coming up and I know that we speak together but so I want to ask you when you're up in front of these huge audiences and talking to people I know some people will call you that you're an anti Vaxxer and you have a vaccine friendly plan book Correct? Correct. And someone asked me one time so now we're gonna switch to some of the questions that I get

Dr. Paul  54:38  
before we go to the questions okay, brought up integrated pediatrics and some of the viewers are going to be my patients from integrated pediatrics and most already know that, you know, I'm retiring on December 5, actually, the last day of November is my last day of seeing patients. The beauty is the incredible blessing. Is that the nurse prac petitioners who work here are all staying, a couple of them have stepped up to say we're going to keep it going, we're going to essentially purchase the essential elements of this practice. So we just stay the same place the same team, and no one's been with you. They beat me from the start. And you know what's amazing. So I've been seeing a lot of patients, I opened up my schedule these last two months, just hey, come see me with any kind of acute problem. I don't care what it is, you want to come see me one last time. So I'm seeing, you know, 1015 20 patients a day and every single one is staying with integrated pediatrics because they love

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  55:34  
but it's not integrated pediatrics, it is not.

Dr. Paul  55:37  
Sorry, good clarification. We are closing integrated pediatrics. It's changing its name to Northwest pediatric integrative medicine. But it's the same team. It's the same group, and they provide informed consent. They're going to vaccinate those who want to be vaccinated. If you want the CDC schedule, you can have it. But you can also do now and if that's what you really feel compelled to do. There's choice, right? Parent's choice informed consent, ethical medicine. So that is a huge blessing and a huge weight off my shoulders. When I was struggling. And you remember, I'm losing everything. I'm losing my license, I'm losing my practice, like what's going to happen? It's just going to fall apart. And it's all coming together as if it were in some higher power plan or something. Hmm, maybe? Yeah. All right. I interrupted.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  56:24  
So what was I saying? Forgetting to? So no, so some of the questions like what you're going to be doing, you're still you're able to do research. Now you're still able to do a lot of things and talk because it's free speech. You're not diagnosing or treating or anything like that. But a big part of that I know when you're talking is that some people have a difficult time with you because they think you're just an anti Vaxxer. And that's just vaccines. So what do you say to those people that think you're an anti Vaxxer?

Dr. Paul  56:59  
So a lot of parents who've had a, they were vaccinating according to what their doctor said, most anti Vax parents were former fully Vax, Zen ating parents, they had an injury. And then nobody would listen to him. Right. And so being shunned and shift shifted to the side, they go to the truth of what happened. And the truth is vaccine for them caused injury. And why would you go and risk another injury to another child or continue to potentially injure the child who's injured. So it's just a derogatory label for somebody who's actually vaccine risk aware, right. And so I like to use that term rather than anti Vax, I would be completely all in on vaccines, if you had a safe vaccine that had been properly tested with true placebo, and you looked at all health outcomes, that has never been done for a single vaccine on the planet. And they've certainly never looked at the full schedule. So as the CDC added vaccine after vaccine after vaccine, the childhood schedule now if you follow the whole thing through AJ teen, it's over 70 different vaccines given and half of them are in the first two years of life while your immune system is trying to process self and non self. And it's insane, right? So I'm anti the current vaccine schedule. And I'm anti the current vaccines, because they have not been properly tested. Right. But if we had a very deadly disease, and we did the proper sort of development, and safety testing, I'm all in, you shouldn't have to coerce people to get a vaccine. I mean, if you've got a real threat, and you've got a really great product, people are going to line up,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  58:49  
right? Well, you're not going to have the response. So you do want to know what I say instead of anti bad want to know, what do you say ProHealth? All right, I'm pro making the choices that are best for my child. And all of us, including me, always did not always make the best choices. But the more information that's out there, and the more that we see, then yeah, we have to make those choices based on health. So that brings us to one popular question that I'm seeing all the time. It's slowing down a little bit, but that is polio. People are saying that Polio is back and they want to vaccinate their children for this but you somewhere along the line, someone said that you don't need to you said that you you didn't need to.

Dr. Paul  59:33  
So until I lose my license, I could be accused of giving medical information. So I have to be a little careful about right. You know, how I educate

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  59:44  
now what I what I want to know is tell me about like why is there fear right now the New York thing? Yeah.

Dr. Paul  59:51  
So they found through PCR testing of sewage, some poliovirus have the vaccine strain. So in parts of the world, they still do an oral live virus so it can stay in your system. So if you're over in India, Pakistan, who knows where they're still doing a live oral polio vaccine, you traveled in New York, you use the flush toilet and flush it into the sewer. They test it. Oh, we've got polio in New York. Alarm alarm. Right, right. Well, I think you could probably identify any virus in the world in a sewer. Honestly, using PCR techniques, the the real issue is, what percentage of New Yorkers given the fact that we have flush toilets, and we hand wash before we eat, right? I mean, come on, the risk is is as close to zero as it gets. Right. So there's just no risk. So even though that vaccine is not that dangerous in my mind, right? There's also

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:00:51  
part of it with just vaccines in general, it's like you said, if there's some deadly thing going around, and there's a safe way to prevent it, and who's going to be effective, then why wouldn't you write? So I think that we should go to the CDC, and tell them to start making vaccine safer.

Dr. Paul  1:01:11  
I think that would be a great idea. Oh, have you go tell him and let me know how it goes.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:01:16  
Okay. Thanks for watching.

Dr. Paul  1:01:20  
D thank you for interviewing me today. Thanks for letting me this was really good. We should do this more often. Okay. Those of you have been watching this show. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Don't forget to go to against the wind. We have growing resources available for you there. And then there's also kids first forever, kids first, the number four ever.com, where we will also be providing the ability to get coaching and other information.

Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I interviewed Dr. Monique Robles. She is a pediatric critical care specialist and a bio ethicist. We talk about the weaponization of the medical establishment, the serious consequences of these mRNA injections. She also serves as a medical witness supporting parental rights and folks that's hard to come by. He has put together a whistleblower report this airs on America out loud weekly. We've got a closing message for parents about COVID vaccines and vaccines in general Bernadette closes out the show with what you do when you go to the state capitol and talk to senators and politicians. And she covers some vital information we all need to know about these lobbyists who are filling these halls. Very interesting information. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I'm calling this segment Love is the reason. And I have a story that was incredibly impactful to me. Just this past week, while at the Oregon coast, at my house there. There was a knock on the door at about 1115 at night, I was just getting ready to go to bed. And a neighbor was saying, Did you know the house down the street is on fire.

And so we walked out. Take a look at this and this home was completely engulfed in flames. I mean, the sparks were flying 100 200 feet into the air.

This is a forested area on the Oregon coast and trees all around. And the first thought to me was this neighborhood's going down, we need to evacuate. So what do you take in a split second, when you've got maybe a minute or two, grab cell phones, computers and got out of there.

Long story short that next morning.

We were drawn to go see what happened. And standing in front of a completely burned down home smoldering. Still a few flames in the ashes was a couple who that was their home. They had lived there for 50 years. They were in their early 80s. He was an artist, a musician, a writer, nothing backed up on the cloud. They lost everything.

They weren't even wearing their own shoes, they had to leave in a split second in their pajamas. They didn't even take their keys or their wallet, everything gone.

And they were standing there in complete shock. And I just get a chill thinking about what that must have been like to lose absolutely everything.

The incredible thing about this experience was there was a sense of peace even in this state of shock that they were in.

We were able to befriend them. We hadn't actually met this couple before, even though they'd lived there for 50 years, and helped them get a cell phone, some basic underwear, socks, T shirts, some of the basics. There was a love connection, and a piece about this whole thing even though they're starting from absolute scratch.

And I was just impressed by the fact of what love can do. The fact that we're not alone,

and we're called to be there for one another. There's this was a time of real darkness, I'm sure in their lives that despair that we saw that first day and yet there was a light in this darkness. And so I feel like it's a calling to all of us to be a light and to be love to one another.

Welcome Dr. Monique Robles. It is such a privilege and an honor to have you back on against the wind. 

Thank you. It's good to be here. It's good to be back. You know, viewers may not know that. I get the pleasure right now of talking to somebody who's appear. You are an expert in the field of Pediatrics. But beyond that you are in critical care. I remember going through my training. I loved critical care, but boy, that's hard work and long hours. But the unique thing really beyond that is that you are a bio ethicist and a mom. So you bring all of this together, and you've got a powerful voice right now. I can't wait to hear what you're going to share with us.

Maybe before I start asking you a few questions, just give me a what's on your mind today.

Monique Robles, MD  4:40  
 Yeah, um, so Paul, we have chatted, I've recently been doing a sort of a series of articles on the attacks on our children. Really, that's what's happening in our culture right now. And I'm trying to decipher in my mind how all these attacks can be categorized because that's what we do.

Medicine, right? We, we sort of put things into categories, whether it's systems or diseases or processes, but it helps us to understand things better. And so when I can categorize things, it helps me to go through a differential basically. So when I started thinking more about the tax on on our children in society,

I began to, we have direct attacks, we tend to think about direct attacks that affect them. And those can be immediate, or they could be, you know, harmful, and potentially life threatening, but but not immediate. And then we have indirect attacks on children that come via typically removal of parental rights or sort of medical kidnapping that's starting to come to the stage. Yeah.

Boy, you use the term which I just read in one of your blogs, weaponization of the medical establishment. And it was like, how perfectly put that that's what's happening. And yet I don't think most of our physicians are aware of it. Yeah, I don't think you're aware of it. If you don't, if you don't look for it, right. And you're you're so engrossed in what's happening in medicine, because you're a part of it, or you've trained and you have missed the periphery of what's happening. But really, if we look back over the years, medicine has become a weapon. It's been politicized. And we I think we can really see that that in the past, probably two and a half, what, two and a half, almost three years now, in what's happened with censorship, doctors not allowed to be doctors, doctors not allowed to take care of patients, how we know best, and how we can interact and treat each personal patient based on their disease processes based on many factors that the government doesn't know. They're not the medical experts. And so, yeah, it's and I believe that what's happening is that medicine is being used for purposes that never was intended. Yeah, we're not we're not healing people. Yeah. Why isn't that the truth? There's more.

Dr. Paul  7:34  
I've got a few years on you. And I've seen us veer away from the healing concept to it's all just diagnose and treat. And the more diseases we can have, the better it's more money. I don't know. It's crazy. On the indirect attacks, I just had an experience and mom came into my clinic today, I'm still seeing patients. I've got another six weeks before I relinquish my license and retire from that part of my career. But yeah, that's right. Yeah, I had a mom come in today, I was a follow up hospitalization for asthma. And the child was seven years old, never been asthmatic before had a sudden severe attack, you would understand this because if she wasn't in the ICU, she should have been she was on a continuous NEBS for several hours, SATs that went as low as the 70s. And, but responded thankfully, beautifully well, and ended up back in her room within 24 hours. And prior to discharge. They were going to vaccinate her this was a completely unvaccinated child. And then two nurses came in and did a head to toe skin examination. Because she, after she wouldn't vaccinate, the nurse said, Oh, and left came back with two nurses, and they did a head to toe skin exam. I mean, for those of you watching those things have nothing to do with the care of an asthmatic. And I think, reading between the lines, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, but I remember being in training, and we were always taught to watch out for child abuse, right. I mean, I in fact, I was a child abuse expert for many years. And one of the things you do is look for bruising and all of that, well, the hospital systems, and this was our best pediatric hospital in town. But hospitals in general, I think go a little far when it comes to securing the safety of the child, oh, this is an unmatched child, therefore they must be it must be

unsafe, and then they take it to that next step.

Monique Robles, MD  9:30  
Elaborate, if you will, I think this ties into some of the things you're doing. Sure. It sounds like in the scenario that you just presented that it's looking for more evidence of abuse of the child when really based on the data that's coming out that there's not an abuse of the child but in the medical community or what we know is the medical establish

Given how we've been trained, is that vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate, and that's the only way to go. And if a parent or a guardian questions that, then they must be, they must not be, they must not have the best interest of the child in mind.

But the question becomes, have we had a dialogue with that parent to understand their rationale as to why the pupil have be will make decisions for reasons not just on the cuff? We make decisions we make conscientious decisions, because of our experience are?

Dr. Paul  10:46  
What's happened to other people that we know that, that maybe the nurses don't know. And so I think there's it's just understanding sort of the bigger picture where an individual is coming from? Well, and, and wouldn't it maybe even go a little further. So when I started medicine in pediatrics, I had no clue that there was a problem with any vaccine, I really believed, from the core of my heart that vaccines were safe and effective. I didn't know back then that that was a marketing slogan.

All interventions have potential risks. And most interventions have potential benefits. But it's all about weighing those out. And so I think these parents, oftentimes, at least in my experience, because I have about a third of my patients who don't vaccinate at all, by their choice that come to my practice, because they've already done the research, they've already figured out they don't want to, and they're kicked out of other practices.

You're absolutely right, they've done a lot of research, and they're not making that decision lightly. In fact, most of them are afraid to go to a hospital, because they're afraid of just this thing. They're gonna get child protective services involved. So this subset of people are sort of going underground.

Monique Robles, MD  12:00  
That's a great point. I love how you said that.

It's all the slogan has been safe and effective. But we don't say that about any other medication or intervention, that it's 100% safe is basically what's implied, and that it's going to do its job with with no risk. You that's a that's a great point. And it is interesting, because it's true that a lot of these these

individuals, if they do go quote, underground, then that makes them more of a target, right? It's like, Well, why didn't you bring in your child for this visit? Or why did you wait so long? Yeah, because it's creating an environment of fear when, when our duty is to take care of all of humanity,

Dr. Paul  12:54  
based on just the dignity of the human person, and not to judge, we make those decisions. And we we can make some judgments, the more we understand where for us, the parents are coming up from and then looking at just the child in general, the you know, what's the way? How do they interact? I mean, there's so many, there's so many things that we can look at, to get a big picture. Ya know, you're so right. I mean, you've got a happy, thriving child is developmentally on schedule, or advanced and making amazing eye contact. They're, they're just, you know, you see these kids who are so alive and interacting beautifully with their parents than on a single parameter. They're not vaccinating, you're gonna call them neglectful parents. It's exactly Yeah, exactly. So let's, let's pivot. Now, we talked about the direct and indirect attacks on our children, I think you have done some pretty clear writing and speaking about direct attacks, we're talking about end of life things abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, fill us in on what you see as some direct attacks that we need to become aware of as parents. Right. So we were very well aware of the abortion industry, and with the recent overturn of Roe v. Wade, and bringing those that decision back to the States. And it is it's a sad, it's a sad era in medicine to think that over 63 million children have been aborted since 1973. And, you know, the fight still continues, where, you know, there are some states that

Monique Robles, MD  14:39  
allow even up to term, the removal of a child from the womb

euthanasia now euthanasia is not legal here in the United States. We do have physician assisted suicide in many states. But euthanasia is the act

Fuel injection or administration of the of the life ending medication by the physician to the person seeking to end the life. But it is

legal in a couple countries for minors. So we if you think of the Netherlands, and I believe this was first legalized in 2002. And then soon after Belgium, now there is a caveat. In the Netherlands euthanization of children zero to one is allowed. And then 12 and older. In Belgium, they run the whole spectrum of age. So there's no age limit. I did not know that in those countries, who gets to decide that this child can be basically killed? Right? So well, the decision is, if you think about children can't give the consent and especially if they're infants, there's there's no input, it becomes it comes down to the parents and the physicians based on subjective

criteria. Really what you know, some of it, I guess, you could consider objective a child who has a,

quote, terminal illness and not expected to live, you know, very long. So and they categorize those by what's known as the Gron engine protocol. And so those are for infants one and under, they sort of classify them, I believe there's five categories that they put them in those with immediate life threatening

illnesses or diseases, those who are incurable. And so they look at the suffering of the child, but then I begin to question Is it the suffering of the child or this or the suffering that the community or the parents are going to have to endure and taking care of the child? So and then the minors 12 and older in the Netherlands, supposedly the children have

some sort of say, and that they have been discussing in the Netherlands to also

incorporate the one through 12 age range as Belgium already has done.

Dr. Paul  17:25  
I have a case when I was in residency, I was a second year pediatric resident. And I was at a hospital that had no attendings. And I was taking care of a really critically ill child in the ICU. Nobody else was willing to manage that child. And they were terminal. I mean, I started an IV on a thumb, you know, it's like, it's all that was left. And I remember the parents anguish and thinking, Boy, wouldn't it be? Wouldn't it be more kind to just let this patient, you know, succumb, which was the most likely inevitable outcome. And that was one thought. But I have another story that just like, whoa, gives me chills. So a mom, paramedic mom in the shower, her nine month old baby dies, in what we would term SIDS in the lingo of pediatricians. She comes out her baby is not breathing in blue and resuscitate this baby. She doesn't know if it was 510 minutes, something like that, since she had last been in touch with the baby. That little baby was in my practice until about age six or seven, completely stiff, vegetative.

The MRI or CT scan of the brain showed nothing but brainstem, from what I can tell just a hollow skull, and that they were hospitalized two, three times for antibiotics because the parents still wanted to do everything. And then they moved away. They came back to our area when the child was about 13. Walking and talking.

Yeah, well explain that.

Oh, folks, sometimes, you know, there can be the tiniest amount of brain left and it takes over somehow now it wasn't perfect speech. And it wasn't perfect. ambulation it was very clumsy. But personality was there. There was there was a real human being there. It just sort of shows we shouldn't play god I guess. Oh, absolutely. God knows how to play God.

Monique Robles, MD  19:30  
Right God knows how to be God and that I think that just goes to show that

Dr. Paul  19:37  
we are only the instruments. There's a greater plan and and who knows how many prayers those parents said so. Yeah. So I'm gonna pivot to a more complicated topic of grave concern these days.

What are your thoughts about I know you've thought about this and written a little bit about putting

Initial deadly consequences of mRNA injections. Sure. You know,

Monique Robles, MD  20:06  
my concern really is just the just the product in and of itself is unlike any other injection or any other vaccine that we give to children on the immunization schedule. It's a whole new platform.

And it was rolled out very quickly. The trials were meant, basically what we were told

was effective was really manipulation. Just to get the, the products out. We've had the, you know, the the recent bombshell report that the from the Pfizer executive at the European Parliament say, Oh, we never, we never tested transmission, the decrease in transmission with these products, we had to get it out at the speed of science.

So we know it's not a vaccine, it doesn't prevent transmission, it doesn't prevent the severity of disease.

And and the the harms that are that are coming, there's no benefit to children. We know, we know that we've seen that for two and a half years, children do well, there's no benefit. There's only harm. And, and that in of itself is a fundamental

principle in in medicine. And the the ethics of medicine is that first do no harm. And we are creating harm, and we're creating a population really of diseased. And and children are dying from these injections. So it's it's a grave concern I have.

Unknown Speaker  22:00  
Yeah, well put.

Dr. Paul  22:03  
It boggles my mind. As we speak, I think we're pre recording this ahead of time, as we speak, I believe the hcip is is discussing, adding this injection, like you said, we can't even call it a vaccine, it doesn't prevent transmission. It's basically without benefit. And especially in children, at least, it's all harm. And yet, I get the sense they will just rubber stamp this approve it, add it to the childhood immunization schedule. And that way the pharmaceutical industry will be forever protected from liability, all the harm and burden of the damage that this is going to cause falls on you the parents. Right. Right. So you know, the emergency use authorization gives them

Monique Robles, MD  22:54  
liability protection. But once it's on the immunization schedule, you're right, Paul, that's that's is a stamp that we can move forward. And we will continue to profit off of this and we won't be held accountable. And that's nowhere in medicine. Should we allow harm, and then no accountability.

Dr. Paul  23:23  
So as an ethicist, what can we do? Because we pediatricians have been silent too long, on this very issue that these medical products are forced on our children

with no liability and no recourse in fact, if you have a damaged vaccine injured child, even if it might just be a vaccine injury, right? Sometimes you don't know. But your child was what one way totally fine. And then after the series of vaccines or this vaccine there, they're not fine. Pediatrics, pediatricians, we got to wake up

Monique Robles, MD  23:59  
there, you know, and I think there are many waking up. The concern is just is we're hard to find because we're being censored

and silenced. And so that's why it's important to have these voices through the Children's Health defense.

Through your show through organizations, like I said, with truth for health, it's important because these really are at the heart of taking care of humanity, and what needs to be done. So how is your career changed? Have you had any changes from when you were hospitalists working in the ICU? Oh, yeah. So so my position was terminated. Because I didn't receive one of these injections. So it has it had I've had to pivot into these advocacy roles.

I'm a to be a voice. Not at the bedside right now. But a voice in the bigger picture of, of really so many of these attacks that we're talking about. Yeah. So you your career got derailed? Have you been challenged with regards to your license? Not yet. Okay, good. I'd say Not yet.

And hopefully not as it shouldn't, it shouldn't be an issue. I've never had any malpractice or any.

My license is clean, like my career has been clean. Because I, I take care of my patients. Yep. Yeah, I had a similar track record. But I, I'm in a state where

Dr. Paul  25:48  
that didn't seem to matter.

And I'm a little too vocal, I was speaking out in front of the steps of the Capitol and things like that. And

Monique Robles, MD  25:58  
but that's a concern, because then it's, then we're going into constitutional rights.

Unknown Speaker  26:05  
Yep.

Dr. Paul  26:07  
So one of the one of the areas that I think parents have a really tough time is the legal side, once the system has come down upon them, let's just say it could be Child Protective Services overreach, or it could be

they're somehow in trouble with a custody issue where one parent has custody and wants medical freedom to maybe let's say, not do a vaccine, and then the other parent

sort of gets the upper hands just simply because they they're going to follow the CDC schedule. And this gives them power, because that's the, quote, right way to do things.

Monique Robles, MD  26:48  
I understand you're, you're now able to be a medical expert. Witness? i Yes. i started, at least putting myself out there. On a couple of cases, I did do some did write some medical experts statements, for even international courts on some bioethics, bioethics issues. But of recent, yes. Including custody cases where one parent wants an injection, another parent does not. And to be a voice for the child. Most, especially when I know and we all we know, the risk and no benefit from these current injections. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  27:43  
Thank you, by the way for doing that, that is

a big void. It's just so easy to go out and find 1000 pediatricians who will just say the party line vaccines are safe and effective. If you don't do them all, you're a bad parent. And as you point out, it's it's so much more complicated than that. So we desperately need people like you

Monique Robles, MD  28:06  
willing to step into that spot and speak out for the children. We are you're right, we're advocates for the kids. And, Paul, it's interesting that you say that, because you're right. So many will say the party line, but the party line doesn't have data doesn't have the data to support. And so that's my hope is to bring evidence, the data that supports the rationale to not inject these children, and it's it's out there.

Dr. Paul  28:37  
But the mainstream media doesn't want it to be out there. And so they won't put it out there. Yeah, you're speaking to the fact that there are over I think it's now over 13. Now, 1300 reports in the peer reviewed literature, folks, this is the gold standard, supposedly, which is not as good as you think it is. But there are that many over 1000 reports of harm published in in the top journals coming from the just the COVID jab.

But what the other side does is, you know, is the tobacco science sort of approach and farmers, especially around vaccines, but they've done it for almost all medications, they just dump out massive amounts of poorly done studies that show whatever they want to show, and they fund it, they publish it, and then you go to court and the other side pulls up, you know, 10,000 studies, and you only have 1000, or in the early days, we had very few because it was a brand new thing. Right? And it's and I think the difficulty comes in trying to refute all of that garbage. Right. I mean, that's what it essentially comes down to.

Monique Robles, MD  29:54  
Especially when it goes along with like you said, what's what the party line is?

Dr. Paul  30:01  
Yeah, absolutely. Tell me a little more about the truth for Health Foundation. I think you guys are launching a pediatric report and as part of the whistleblowers initiative, yes, you got it. So Dr. Vleet, had, she has a her own station or own our recording with America out loud.

Monique Robles, MD  30:22  
And there was a need for the noon hour, Monday through Friday. So she developed the series is called the whistleblower report, and really looks at all of the

problems that are occurring, whether it be a medicine or military

government, that that we need to be aware of, that are happening. And one of those is the pediatric report, where we are showcasing really what's happening inside pediatrics, and particularly these attacks that are happening on children, and allowing parents to hear this, to give them information so that they're empowered

Dr. Paul  31:16  
and knowledgeable, so that they can move forward and make the best decisions for their children. We want to provide that evidence and support. Absolutely. So people can go to America out loud and noon hour Monday through Friday. It sounds like this is a a important place to get good information. Right. That's the whistleblower report. And there will be different report each of those days, but we're trying to have our voice weekly on one of those hours. So fantastic. Good for you. So I think for you if I'm not mistaken COVID was the real wake up call. Is that true? When it comes to questioning a vaccine? Suppose it vaccine? Yes, yeah.

Monique Robles, MD  32:01  
How did you end up getting the vaccine yourself? No, you said you didn't? How about other family members of yours? My No, I we're not we're I advised. And my parents, rightfully so. And I advised people not to, not to get it. And

thankfully, there was a you know, there was some listening.

Dr. Paul  32:25  
So I'm going to share a funny story based on just you and I in that situation. So I go to my parents. And I tell him, mom, dad, this one, this is not a good vaccine, you really need to stay away from it. They got it anyway. And

as now they're not getting the boosters. So I finally got through. But when it was early on like that, and they're living in retirement communities, and they're here, they watch the news faithfully, you know, CNN and all of it, right?

Liberal Democratic background, so they don't get another perspective. And I come from that background. So if you if that was our background, we buy in that these news agencies are telling the truth. In fact, my mom even said to me, Well, Paul, how can you be right? When you're the only one? Nobody else is thinking the way you are? And the first time she asked me, I was just like, really, you've been with me this whole journey. I've been like two decades talking about, you know, vaccine risks, and this is what I live. And, and that's what you think. But you know, you can't be a prophet in your own land, I guess.

Monique Robles, MD  33:37  
That's well said. That's well said.

Dr. Paul  33:41  
And to think that you would advise anything, but the best for your parents. Right, right. But you see, because you are pro vaccine, we could say, right? I mean, you you've been supporting the the entire childhood schedule

it for you to question it, your parents had to go, oh, my gosh, you know, something's going on here. I'm always questioning everything. So they're like, Ah, here he goes again.

Monique Robles, MD  34:06  
But you know, once you start, once you start bringing up the points of why, and having those conversations, then obviously, you have to bring it to a level where other individuals not in medicine can understand. But having those conversations is so important. Right? It's communication. It's dialogue. That's that's the foundation for for any good relationship. Absolutely. And I'm probably not the master communicator. Actually, I know I'm not.

Dr. Paul  34:41  
So then I have to ask you, if you questioned COVID vaccines, vaccines, have you now decided you might want to take a look at the rest of the vaccine schedule. But of course, of course, I think you begin once you

Monique Robles, MD  35:00  
Once you see what has happened with the coercion of these mRNA injections, it does so many, if you critically think about, well, if this one occurred like this, we'll have any of the others occurred or had similar backgrounds. And so when you start digging into the censored

data and the censored papers and the censored

documentaries and the censored information,

yeah, things that you were that I was never aware of. But now that I look for it, and when I find it, I my jaw drops, it drops. And so it begins. Yes, I begin to think, what is necessary and what is not necessary? What's proportional and what's not proportional.

In these vaccines, what do you think?

So you begin to think, you know, we can go back to when we were kids, right? Yeah, we get hepatitis B shots when we were children. No. Do we get chickenpox shots when we are kids? No, I remember clearly having chickenpox. You know, the lesions even in my ears. It was just, it was a pretty significant case. Yeah, I didn't get the MMR. I'm that old lever. You know, we were the better for it. We have, we have great. I mean, I feel like we have great immunity. But I and I begin to think now.

When I was a child, did I see a lot of kids with who needed epi pens, and with allergies and inhalers?

I don't recall in Exuma, and every other kid Yes, yes. Yes. So, I mean, I just my experience, this is what I was talking about earlier, your experience plays in to your decision making, right.

So there's a lot of a lot of the injections that I

beginning to look at. And like I said, What is what is necessary? And what is not? Yeah.

Dr. Paul  37:22  
I like what you pointed out that you need to start looking at what's been censored, because I'll tell you an interesting story. It was 2001. I had just read the Wakefield paper on the measles and autism possible, lanky. That's all he said, there might be a link, and I thought, hmm, link between vaccines and some major problem. I was like, really. And there was an organization back then called defeat Autism NOW. And they were putting on incredible medical conferences. I had just heard of them through the pediatric journals that were just trashing this organization. You know, they need to be stopped. They're spreading misinformation. And they I don't know if they use that term back then, but basically highly discouraging any involvement by a member of the Academy of Pediatrics with this rogue group of doctors, while an attorney mom in my practice, in 2002, says, Dr. Paul, would you go check out this damn movement? I think my boys are slightly on the spectrum and her boys were if they were on the spectrum, it was mild ADHD, you know, I mean, they were brilliant doing well in school, social, but I thought I really respected her. She was married to an attorney. One of them was soon to become the District Attorney for the area. I mean, sharp, sharp couple. I said alright, I'll go check it out for you. Because I've seriously all I had read was in our pediatric journals.

My jaw dropped. I had goosebumps I had tears once one lunch they presented just before and afters of kids becoming autistic, when you see a whole bunch of those in a row.

Unless you're heartless, I don't know how you can deal with that. Right? Right. So woke me up because the here's this rogue organization you're not supposed to look at. And when you do, oh my word. I never went to another AP meeting in my life. There was no need to go to the AP and I could get some pharma funded presentations or I could go to real conferences and get amazing information. I'm not saying everything at the AP is bad. And I'm definitely not saying that pediatricians are not good people. I think we go into pediatrics as we love children. We have great big hearts. But

you know, you're an ethicist. You're a mom, you're a pediatrician.

Monique Robles, MD  39:40  
I'm still struggling with how to reach our peers. Right? Right. You bring up a good point, it's, it's it goes back to having the conversation and if someone is unwilling to have the conversation,

then then that's then that's when you

Dr. Paul  40:00  
You shake the sand off your sandals and you keep going, right? You can't unknow what you know, and you can't unsee what you've seen. And actually, for me, it was parents who first came to me and said, you know, Dr. Paul, Could you look into this? I think there's something going on. For example, with a kid becoming autistic after a series of vaccines, sometimes it was immediate. And it sure felt like, wow, that's a coincidence, you know, very first time. And then for me, it happened four years in a row. And it was like, Okay, that was the last straw. Shame on me that it took that long to wake up. And I was just recently interviewing somebody else who, who made a very, very important point that just sort of hit me has. That's it. So the association is not causation. Right? This is the the thing that gets us our Achilles heel, if you will. Well, he was talking about some Israeli data and the COVID stuff, and made the comment that if, if you give a product in this case, let's talk about a vaccine. And a patient regresses or gets worse. And then over time, they get better. And then you give that product again, and they get even worse. That's proof of causation. And it was like this, aha, because that's what I've been seeing over and over my whole career. I, since I started my integrative pediatric practice, when I left the mainstream group, we had first do no harm safe passage in a changing world, these were our mottos. And if you see a delay developing in a kid, or you see any kind of regression, stop all vaccines at that point, that was sort of our guiding principle, and honoring informed consent. And so what would happen is we saw so many kids who were just slipping into what looked like it would be developmental delays or autism get better. And then too many times they ended up thinking, Oh, my kids, okay, now we can do the vaccines, they would give another one, then they'd be full blown out autism. I mean, if that wasn't proof enough of causation, I don't know what it is. It's interesting. But what it requires, Paul, is, is humility, right? We don't come out, or we shouldn't come out a medical school and after all our training, and think we know everything.

Monique Robles, MD  42:22  
And so and that we know, what is always best for the child. And in our, our thinking, our decision making should override the parent. Parents are astute, especially moms. And so I think we've talked about this before, but you have a mom that says something. And it's, you know, maybe, oh, no, it's brushed off or something else, and she comes back.

You don't brush it off. There's a reason she's back. Because something is not right. And you haven't done your due diligence to figure it out. You hit me with humility. I had a good friend,

Dr. Paul  43:03  
coach, personal coach, who I had. I mean, I've had enough humility along the way to listen, but sometimes I had to be hit upside the head a few times.

We all do. And, you know, it was it was on the tail of just I mean, I'm just like, racing around pediatric rooms. And just, I've got a bunch of nurse practitioners who consult with me all day long. I mean, I'm starting to think I'm really all that right. And so losing my license was actually the best thing that happened. Because not only did that just bam, out of the blue, I mean, I was dealing with board stuff, but I was always okay, because they really didn't have anything. And my coach just basically drove home that point about letting ego go, and just listening to your soul. And being humble, right? And that in that space, everything beautiful happens. I, I feel you and I love your soft way.

It's really, really powerful. I want you to close out with a message to parents today.

Monique Robles, MD  44:10  
In whatever way you wish. Thank you, Paul. That that's a beautiful example. I

I find that when we are when we are humble, that we have a greater art our we have a greater capacity and listen, our heart is more compassionate. And

we're able to understand more clearly right?

And so and I just want to say that no matter what a board takes away, they'll never take away your professionalism as a doctor, they can't take away the Euro physician. They'll never take that away. You know, so they just there's just some things that cannot be done.

So I do want to close with telling parents that

fight for your children. There are many of us out there, you can find us. We've talked about where you can find this. And we we are working hard to to bring the ethics and art of medicine back.

And so we're with you in this fight.

And so, yeah.

Dr. Paul  45:30  
And then I'm going to challenge you for one last thing. Be specific, you have a patient sitting in front of you, or it's a close friend, and they have a little baby or a preschooler or a school aged kid. And the COVID vaccine just got authorized. They're excited. They want to they want to go get it, because finally I can go, now I can protect my infant. What do you tell them?

Monique Robles, MD  45:57  
No. But you know, we you it's, it's how you tell them? That's how you tell them? First you ask, Well, what do you think the benefits are going to be from this injection, and let them talk, let them tell you so that they give you all of their rationale. And then you bring in all the counterpoints and all the harms, and that it would be in the best interest of, of the child. And that's that, and you say that that's my responsibility is the best interest of your child.

Unknown Speaker  46:34  
Hmm.

Unknown Speaker  46:35  
I like that.

Dr. Paul  46:38  
There you have it, folks. I feel like what we need more of is how to talk to each other. And what you just illustrated there is we need to ask questions, and have an open heart. And then if there's a willingness for them to hear what you feel might be in the best interest of kids. You know, that's the hard part is sometimes people closed down when you start sharing that information. And I don't know if you have a, an approach to when that happens. I think it seems like that when they close down that just allowing them to talk, I feel I feel that sometimes we as physicians don't listen enough. And that's when we miss things. So

Monique Robles, MD  47:25  
that's, that's a simple advice. But I think it's a it's it's a great advice.

Dr. Paul  47:31  
Fantastic.

Monique Robles, MD  47:33  
Well, Dr. Monique Robles, thank you so much. Thank you, Paul, remind people where they can go read your writings and how they can support this medical Freedom Movement. Right. So my website is WWE dot human dignity speaks.com, where I put in all these post on just Bioethical Issues in medicine, more specifically, as related to children and adolescents. And another place please visit is WW dot truth for health.org As we're fighting for your medical freedom, and the rights of humanity.

Dr. Paul  48:20  
Thank you

Welcome Bernadette back to against the wind. It's so great to have you back. Oh, I'm always so pleased to be here with you, Dr. Paul. And I want to tell you, I was at a meeting last night and there was love set around your name, you're, you're a hero to many I know you don't feel like a hero. But you're standing up and speaking out in a very difficult time and everybody is grateful even over here in the great state of Tennessee. Well, thank you. And folks, if you don't know Bernadette has moved from Washington State of Washington to Tennessee, where she's involved in many different organizations fighting for medical freedom and freedom in general. And you are still the host of an informed life radio, Public Policy Director of informed choice Washington where I know you're very active. And today I'm excited. The elections are over now. And I know folks, there's always disappointment after elections and some people are happy about certain things and some people are sad about other things. But what do we do now, Bernadette? What do we do now? This is really big. There has never been a more important time to figure out what to do when the elections are over. So no matter the outcome, what do you do? You are gonna get meetings with your state and local elected officials. Some of you have never ever done this before. I'm telling you, it's time to to stand up and do it. Grab somebody grab a friend so that you have the courage. These are just people once you get to know them. You'll wonder why you were ever nervous. I started off being nervous. But eventually you got to the point where these are just people you develop relationships with. How do you do that? You email or

Bernadette Pajer  50:00  
or, and or telephone their offices and find out how to set an appointment say I want an appointment before session starts, because you need to establish this relationship. Now, the newly elected who've never been in office before can be kind of harder to find because their, their official addresses aren't always available until the beginning of when they take office. But you can usually reach out through their candidate pages that are still active in their emails and phones still work. This is your goal, you want to ask them their stance on issues that are very important to you. Listen to their response, this is probably the hardest thing, you don't want to open the floodgates, you want to have a conversation, listen to what they say, take notes, explain your concerns and earnestly listen to their response. And then at the end of the meeting, ask for something specific, something like please support legislation, this session that protects medical freedom, right? And then thank them. That's all you're going to do for now. And then as session moves in, you're going to have this relationship set up and you become more and more specific. Always having that listening component, because you're developing this professional relationship. Now, why?

Why do you want to do this? You want to do this with your friendly officials? And people say, Well, I don't need to contact my friendly official, they already stand with me. Or I'm afraid to go to my unfriendly officials, they don't, you know, why do you need to do this with all of them? Why do you think Dr. Paul, what's the number one reason you need to do this? Well,

you need it. If you're going to have any influence whatsoever, you need a relationship. That's it. That's it. And I'm going to tell you really powerfully why because every week if not every single day, this is in these people that I'm going to show you are in the offices,

lobbyists, there are and show you something a little bit. There are literally 1000s of lobbyists in every single state who are paid to show up every day, walk the halls, shake hands, ask how your kids are doing have muffin day and give free muffins. They establish relationships, they're bringing the data from their side of the topic every week, every day the loggers compete with that hard to compete with that. And then these guys, these are your Medical Association's there, they put on their white coats and the doctors have a Day on the Hill and the nurses have a Day on the Hill. And these associations are all pro vaccine pro forma pro hospital establishment, the things we're trying to reform. These aren't bad people. These are people caught up in a bad system. And they are saying the opposite of what we know to be truth, in fact, but even they are not our worst adversary. Our worst adversary. Dr. Paul's right here. And I'm using Washington State as an example is your own department of health, your taxpayer funded employees who are pure CDC propaganda, and what they will do so this we've got a Secretary of Health and Chief Science Officer, Chief prevention chief of policy chief of partnerships, Chief of resilience, Chief of public affairs, and I left off so many other employees head of the immunization department, you know, all these other things that work daily to try to push CDC messaging.

And they can get hour long meetings, they can get dinner appointments, they can get work sessions, it's really difficult when session starts, we get three minutes of public comment or a 10 minute office visit if you can squeeze in their schedule, these individuals are in and out of the office because their public health right.

So it is a well oiled machine, isn't it? It is so if they don't hear from us moms and dads citizens regularly the only information they're going to find out about pharmaceutical products. And that's of course, what we focus on is the vaccines and COVID shots. The only information they're going to get is from lobbyists, medical professionals, and corporate captured public health officials. So your voice is essential. And it really is important. And I want to stop share. I wanted to give my own little examples in about 2016 When I began to attend board of health and Department of Health type meetings, I would go on I would often be the only public citizen watching the meetings and I would look to the left and look to the right here are these well dressed 20 something 30 Something professionals they were all lobbyists they were or they were like pharmaceutical reps. And during the break you'd say oh hey how you doing Johnny? Oh, unders great Harry, how you doing? They knew each other they had relationships. Right? It

It was very, very cozy. And then I would go to Olympia at the Capitol in Washington State. And I'd be heading toward legislators office with my printed out PubMed studies about the dangers of this or that and I'd see outside the hall.

That's the Merck rep. That's the Pfizer rep that I saw at the Department of Health meeting, right. And I really realized how everywhere I went, I saw a lot of those and very few of me. Yep, we need to flip that. There's more of us than of them. Let's get seen and heard. That is so important. And then so I have one more thing to share with you. I wanted to share with you. I was shocked to find this out really the money involved. So every state has some place where lobbyists are required to record what their their name and who they're working for. So I just looked in Washington State at their lobby list. I looked for loving client Pfizer, and I found a woman named Amy brackenbury. Okay, so I decided, so I clicked on her. Here we go. And there's there's a picture, pretty young woman, and then I went down to see what the heck she was doing when the shots first came out. Because I was curious, I figured that was be when she would be most active. So I think it was like, February of 2021. Why am I not seeing that? September? Let's go to September. That's close enough.

Let's see what we have here is fine. There's Pfizer $5,000. In one month that she was given September of 2021. They gave this woman $5,000 to promote Pfizer products in Washington State at the Capitol. She also got 7000 from the Washington State Society, the anesthesiologist, 2500 from Washington, Washington School counselors. It's funny that the beer and wine distributors are on here. I guess they wanted to make sure they kept the doors open. As churches were closed the beer and wine distributors wanted to keep kept open. We've got vertex pharmaceuticals. I don't know who they are. AstraZeneca she's got a zero though. But apparently she was working for them at some point. It's almost $40,000 in one month. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And and when you go through, it is so shocking to see how much lobbyists make if they if they have several clients, I tell you, we're in the wrong position. How do we get people to pay us 5000 a month to go tell the truth to because we do it for free? We pay for the gas we pay for our own hotels, you know, Mama bears and Papa bears. We pay all out of pocket to do this. Yeah. But thanks for exposing this. I don't think I realized, and I now better understand why when I've tried to go and meet with my senator representative. It's been very difficult to even get an appointment. And no wonder they are consumed by big money, lobbyists and all these inside connections.

You got our work cut out for ourselves, folks. Thank you, Bernadette for bringing that to our attention. You're welcome. And one more little example I wanted to give you is we had some concerns. I apologize. I don't remember the specific but it was vaccine related pre COVID. And we had a legislator who was very interested, you looked in UI and you got that sparkle, that back and forth connection we're connecting. He's looking at the data, the published studies that we have given him, he's voicing concerns, great meeting, the next time I saw this legislator, and I went up to him about this very same subject. He was standoffish his eyes had that look of I'm not going to connect with you. And he said, Well, you know, I met this summer with the American Academy of Pediatrics doctors. And so you know, I feel I I'm feeling pretty good about this decision of what's going on over here, which is not what we wanted. Right? So in that intervening time between when I had seen him, that Association had convinced him to not listen to me. It just shut me down. That can happen if you're not there regularly. Yeah, no, absolutely.

Dr. Paul  59:11  
Lot of captured agencies and

public health offices, etc. Yes, folks, take Bernadette's advice, go get a establish relationship. If you've got the time and the desire. This is what we need. We need 1000s of us hundreds of 1000s of us descending on our state capitals around the country. And let's get the truth out there. Exactly. Thank you Dr. Paul. Thanks Bernadette.

Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member support it we don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling

The content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show, PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I'm Dr. Paul. Today I interview Steve Kirsch. He is the founder of COVID-19 early treatment Fund and the executive director of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. We do a deep dive into COVID vaccine safety data. This man has it at his fingertips, and the many effects and side effects that are being reported. At the end I asked him for his informed conclusion. Now mind you, here's a guy who took two two of these COVID vaccines. He woke up as he started to see everything that unfolding and then did the work himself to go and get the data. His recommendation, don't get the vaccines. You're gonna want to watch it. It's powerful. And Bernadette ends with this ACI P vote that caused the CDC to put this on the childhood schedule. The effect of this coming February, she's going to tell you how you figure this out, state by state. Enjoy the show.

Dark power coming to you from the heart. Talking about heroes today. And this is a topic that I struggle with. I get called a hero when I'm talking with my patients I'm always being thanked thank you for all this and that. I don't feel like a hero. I just feel like I'm doing what you should do in the situation I find myself placed in. I think heroes are firefighters running into a burning building and pulling people out. It's a dead jumping over a fence to pull a kid out of a pool who had drowned or was drowning in their neighbor. It's teachers getting in front of their students in a mass shooting. It's parents who are dealing daily with vaccine injured children, and they bring stuff to me and they show me their struggle. Those are my heroes. I choose to stand with those parents, anybody who's suffering a vaccine injury themselves. And we're gonna work on this together because together, we can make progress and we desperately need it. We're all heroes as we fight for the truth. We fight for what's right, and we stand in the gap so our kids don't continue to be harmed. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

welcome Steve Kirsch, we were just together a week ago in Florida at the FLC CC conference. You are one of the speakers your presentation. Wow. Now, I discovered you not that long ago, but you are a tech entrepreneur, philanthropist, you've become an investigative journalist, a masterful one at that. You you have a history of independently inventing optical mouse. I think you were an inventor of one of the first Internet search engines Infoseek. But let's fast forward to the last couple, two, three years you founded the COVID-19 early treatment fund, and you're the executive director of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. Tell me a little bit about your background. Many of my viewers, those on the Children's Health defense TV probably know you fairly well, but a lot of my other outlets, people probably don't know you. What's your background? And how did you get into being so passionate about COVID And the data and this vaccine or

Steve Kirsch  3:11  
shot? Yeah, so I mean, my backgrounds been in technology. I've been a computer geek. Since the very early days, I worked actually, I wrote down email program for the people who invented the internet, if you can believe that, back when I was a kid in in high school. And so I I went to MIT, I got a couple of degrees from MIT. left there, I started my first company, which was inventing the optical mouse and putting that on the market. And I've done about, I don't know, six or seven high tech companies. You know, I used to have a resume on LinkedIn. But I've been permanently banned on LinkedIn, I've been permanently banned on medium. I've been permanently banned from Wikipedia and been I've been permanently banned twice from Twitter. And all of this is for what they call spreading misinformation on these platforms. And I like to call it telling the truth. So some I'm a truth teller. And, in fact, I only started being banned on these platforms. When I started talking about the vaccines. You know, so we've gotten my entire life. I've never been called a misinformation spreader in my life. I got a national caring award that was presented by Hillary Clinton in a huge auditorium in Washington DC along with other people who were were being honored at the time. And that national caring award used to be on my wiki pedia profile, but as soon as I started talking about the vaccine, my Nash Don't carry your word disappeared from my Wikipedia profile, you know. And so this is the kind of stuff that people will do in order to make you look like you're a bad person. You know, and this continues to this day where I met with, I ran into an old friend, Eric Hahn. And he's a CEO here, he was the CEO of several startup companies. And I asked me what I was doing. And I said, Well, I'm a mythbuster, today. And he said, Well, what do you what kinds of myths I said, Oh, you know, like, the vaccine is safe and effective myth. And he said, I don't want to talk to you. You're an evil person. The data is so clear that these vaccines are saving lives. And I said, Well, that's not what the data says. And, and, and he said, No, no, the data is all clear. And it's in front of a beat. Like I said, Would you talk to me about the data? And he said, No, no, no, that would be like arguing with a person who claimed that the moon is made of Swiss cheese, people have beliefs. But if they're credible people that present themselves and say, you work, I have an argument that the moon is made of Swiss cheese to Eric, I would listen to you. And he said, No, no, I don't have the time time for this. We're not having this discussion. And then he walked away. And, and so you know, it's interesting that the people who can see what's going on, are the people who are open to discussing that their belief system might not be right. Yep. And you know what, so what got me into this is that I was a big believer of the vaccine, because this is what I was told this is what people that you trust tell you that the vaccines are safe and effective. This is the same reason that Dr. Paul Merrick, who's one of the key is the number one most published intensivist of all time, which means he's the intensivist as ICU medicine. Yeah. And so there's nobody smarter in intensive care medicine when then Paul, I mean, arguably, and he said he was fooled to he, he basically trusted people, he didn't look at the data himself, he trusted people, this is what everyone in medicine does, because they just don't have the time to look at the data themselves. And so he started seeing all these vaccine injured people. I mean, tons and tons of vaccine injured, and it was so obvious. And nobody was saying anything. Right? Nobody in the medical community was acknowledging the link between you getting a vaccine. And these conditions are happening within hours after the shot. Right. So you go from perfectly healthy, to disabled. Yeah, in hours, like you couldn't even make it to the bathroom. Where it's after the shock. And everybody's like going like, well, that must be just in your mind or the incidence. Yeah, coincidence, or, or whatever. And so pulse off saw too many of these coincidences, so he started looking at the data. And when he did, he was like, appalled. It's the same thing for Aseem Malhotra, famous cardiologist in the UK. Yep. He was advocating on TV. And then his dad died with multiple blockages. And so he started investigating found it was the VAX. I talked to a doctor recently. He said he had two patients with six stents. He says he's never seen more than three stents ever in his 30 year career. And now he's got patients with two patients, not one patient. And he's only got a practice of 1000 patients. He's got two patients with six stents. And

Dr. Paul  8:52  
that would be because of the massive clotting that happened in all those major arteries

Steve Kirsch  8:56  
happened after these people got the vaccine. Yeah. And so I had my awakening moment when somebody contacted me and said, Hey, I had three relatives who died. And they, they all died a week after getting the shot. And they were all perfectly healthy. Now, look, one I could understand, but three, you know, like that. Don't. You'd have to know like, a billion people. Yeah. Before you would find that one person. Yeah. And of course, Eric Khan says, no, no, that selection bias because, you know, you found the one person that happened to be unlucky. And that doesn't mean that they're all like that. But, you know, a week later my carpet cleaner comes in. He said that he had a heart attack a minute after he got the shot and his wife also suffered from a Parkinson's like, symptoms. She couldn't hold the glass steady after she got her shot and that is She recovered there, it took her like four months to recover. So I said, you know, that's that's the statistic with the three deaths in a week, that's a little bit outside of the normal range. I mean, that's not something that you'd expect to see at all. So what I did was I started looking at the data, I said, Hmm, interesting, you know, somebody's lying to me. It's either my friends are lying to me. Because I don't think I'm that unlucky. Yeah, my friends lying to me, or CDC is lying to the CDC and FDA lied to me. So I decided to look at the data and, and, and see what the data said. So I started looking at the various data and taught myself how to, you know, search for errors or errors in the vaccine adverse event reporting system, and the various data was unambiguous. This is the most dangerous vaccine we've ever produced. This is killing 1000s of people and viruses under reported by at least 41. And so, you know, the 1000s of people that were showing up in the VR system at the time, I mean, that was like 41,000 people on ongoing like,

Dr. Paul  11:11  
any, like, just signal we've ever seen. It's in

Steve Kirsch  11:13  
41,000 people now wait a second. So you stop a beat when they're two infants who die from baby formula? Close the baby formula plan. That's what we do. We do that today. We close the frickin plant. Yep, with two infant deaths. For 41,000 Americans who died after getting the vaccine, It's unexplainable. And they're like, let's mandate this. You know, this is this is an unbelievable, and so I just couldn't believe, you know, it was it was like, wow, what's going on here? You know, so, I had other people that I talked to people like Dr. Robert Malone and Dr. Byron bridle and and

Dr. Paul  12:01  
Peter Matala and

Steve Kirsch  12:04  
Brett wines Stein. You know, all these Chris Martenson. Right. All these guys are super down to earth people. They're not ever categorized as misinformation spreaders. Like when did you ever hear Peter McCullough being a misinformation spread? Or my

Dr. Paul  12:22  
gosh, I don't know him, right. He's a cardiologist and one of the most published in his field in the world. But I've been on stage with him. He's a gentleman and such a knowledgeable scientist.

Steve Kirsch  12:35  
Yeah, he's extremely knowledgeable about all the science. Yep. And nobody will debate him and nobody will debate any of these people. Yep. And so I started collaborating with these people who were seeing the truth. And people like Jessica Rose and Matthew Crawford and Robert F. Kennedy, Joe Mercola. And they're all seeing exactly the same thing. Now. How is it Paul that all of these people, including myself, become misinformation? spreaders? Yeah, exact Welcome to

Dr. Paul  13:12  
my world.

Steve Kirsch  13:13  
So on the exact same issue? Yep. So this goes like when was the last time when was the last time that happened, Paul, and the and all of them were wrong.

Dr. Paul  13:23  
I mean, I can think of Ignis Shama Weiss, I think I'm butchering his last name. He was he was the only guy. That's true. He was alone. He was so yeah, that you're right. It tends to be a lone person who finds an uncomfortable truth that challenges the narrative and they get persecuted.

Steve Kirsch  13:41  
Right. It's something I it's like the guy with the discovered ulcers.

Dr. Paul  13:46  
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's another example. I mean, Andy Wakefield, who wrote that maybe

Steve Kirsch  13:51  
Wakefield rides alone, Paul Thomas.

Dr. Paul  13:55  
I heard a Paul Thomas. I've been Wakefield did.

Steve Kirsch  13:59  
Yeah, you know, your Wakefield, it meaning that you're had your career destroyed, because you went against the narrative. And so each individual that goes against the narrative, you know, gets their career destroyed. And so people are reticent about doing that. And so, even today, doctors are seeing, you know, these, like, I know a doctor at Stanford, his name is Brian Stockdale. And, and Stockdale saw a case of CJD after the person, not the VAX. In fact, the person developed CJD a week, one week after getting the VAX. Now, that's either the most incredible coincidence of all time or there's cause and effect. You should look it up as CJD it's a it's a prion disease, which means is a disease caused by misfolded proteins. Yeah, Learning

Dr. Paul  15:00  
long lines of mad cow disease, I believe.

Steve Kirsch  15:03  
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so you could you could either get it from eating, you know, meat that's infected or what have you. And and so this person who developed it, they had no risk factors for CJD, none zero. The doctors at Stanford were baffled. They, they told the doctors, hey, developed one week after they got the vaccine. And she consulted with 10 Doctors at Stanford University. And none of the 10 would even speculate that the vaccine might cause this despite overwhelming evidence in the scientific literature that connects the vaccines with prion disease. And in fact, I was on a call with Dr. Byram bridle at the very beginning of this when I first heard about the biodistribution, study that Byram and basically obtained through Freedom of Information Act from the Japanese government, and he discovered that number one is the vaccines not staying in your arm, which was super troubling. And the second thing he discovered was, or that he hypothesized is that he said, You know, I'm really worrying about prion disease. And

Dr. Paul  16:29  
yeah, I think for our for our audience, sorry to interrupt you. But people don't realize the technology that was used to create this mRNA, quote, vaccine. And I put that in quotes, just because it's not a vaccine. It's not preventing any illness. And it's designed with that nano particle technology to enter the blood brain barrier, for example. I mean, they've created this molecule. So it will go anywhere, and you're talking about the fact that the biodistribution, it can go anywhere in the body.

Steve Kirsch  16:58  
Yeah. Including your brains law, it lungs, heart, liver, kidney, spleen, blah, blah, blah, and especially your ovaries, especially your reproductive organs. This is why people have reproductive problems. Some people have reproductive problems, things like problems with erections after they got the shock, because it almost hones in on your reproductive organs. And, you know, people would have none of this. But you know, the various data was conclusive

Dr. Paul  17:26  
that one shot in two years, has caused more harm than all vaccines since we started collecting data 30 years ago, folks, this is shocking. And just last

Steve Kirsch  17:38  
fall, wait, Paul, it's worse than that. Because I did some surveys on health care workers. And it turns out they're under reporting is versus historical vaccines. They're actually reporting at a five times lesser rate for this vaccine, even than the others. Yes, than the others.

Dr. Paul  18:00  
I find that shocking, because the side effects from the COVID jabs are so as we pointed out at the beginning of our talk, many of them happen quickly. Yes, yes. They're so severe. How can you resist them?

Steve Kirsch  18:13  
You just don't report the Paul, because there's so many of them, Paul, that people don't have the time to report them all. And they're told not to, and they're, they're told that somebody else will report it. Yeah. And that ever happens,

Dr. Paul  18:25  
there's a huge incentive or disincentive to report, right.

Steve Kirsch  18:29  
They're told they're told, they are told that these vaccines have been heavily tested, and they're safe and effective. And so one part of you says, well, I shouldn't report them because it's not linked. And I don't want to create alarm. I don't want to create vaccine hesitancy. Yeah, right. That is the fall, don't want to get fired. And plus, there are too many of them. I know one neurologist who's got 1000 needs to file 1000, various reports. And she's filed two of them.

Dr. Paul  18:56  
Yeah. Historically, as a pediatrician, we did not recognize that most of the chronic neurological conditions, most of the developmental delays, a lot of the allergies and autoimmunity that we were seeing these chronic conditions and kids, we I'm willing to bet you 99% of pediatricians today have no idea that they are linked to vaccines.

Steve Kirsch  19:20  
Right. Right. And in fact, I was in an event last night for children's health. And the the speaker or the the the person they were honoring one person, that person had to sit in a chair, and she got up and she said sorry, I have vertigo. And so you know, this is why I'm, I'm a little bit you know, out of it. And so I went up to her and asked her afterwards, I said, How long have you been having? Have you been having the vertigo? Did you develop the vertigo in last few years? Yes. And I said How long after you got the vaccine? Did you develop your vertigo? All right, I mean, I jump directly from Sure. Like, cuz I've seen this over and over and over and over again. We've got the vaccine who developed vertigo. Yeah. And she says it was, you know, it's about like four months. How do you know?

Dr. Paul  20:13  
Yeah, they're not it's been the traditional denial thing that all the new things we see. I mean, SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome. I was in training 30 years ago when that term was introduced. And it's only way later when the data was analyzed carefully. You see, almost all the SIDs happens the week after a vaccine. Like, I think it's 97 or 8%. It's, it's not happening the week before a vaccine. So the cause and effect is clear. Now we have sads. Once we had COVID vaccine, sudden adult Death Syndrome, oh, they're just dropping dead. Have you seen images of people, soccer players just bam, dead? We're seeing it more and more.

Steve Kirsch  20:54  
It's amazing how the medical community has never ever linked SIDS with the vaccine. How can you have all of the events happening the week after the vaccine? And none of the events happening the week before Paul? I mean, it's one,

Dr. Paul  21:13  
obviously cause and effect. Our peers are just I just It baffles me, honestly.

Steve Kirsch  21:22  
I mean, we were told put your baby on its back.

Dr. Paul  21:25  
Right, right. Back to Sleep program. I mean, pediatrics pushed it big time. So they could therefore explain away the SIDs. Oh, it's because you've putting your baby on your tummy?

Steve Kirsch  21:35  
Ours? Of course. And you know, isn't it amazing? How we only figured this out after the vaccines rolled out, and medical science had never before made the connection? Isn't that amazing? And isn't amazing, Paul how maths suddenly started working for a virus when in the history, the history of medical science yet nobody had figured this out who actually has a manual saying the MAS don't stop respiratory viruses. This is why when you are you're in a BSL three or a BSL four lab. Do you see anybody wearing an n95 mask and a BSL three or BSL four?

Dr. Paul  22:19  
That is a good point. BSL three and four lab is?

Steve Kirsch  22:25  
BSL three is just a high low it. There are various categories of biosafety lab specification for labs where you do work on viruses. BSL one is considered to be like the lowest level, BSL two BSL three and BSL four and they're very few BSL four. They're probably like a handful of BSL four labs. And they're much more BSL three. And so this is where you do the gain function research. like it'd be you in a BSL four? Where it's, it's highly contained. I guarantee you nobody at any of these labs when you're dealing with pathogenic viruses is wearing an n 95. Mask. Yeah, yeah, I guarantee you

Dr. Paul  23:07  
they're completely porous and and close to useless that n 95 might have a teeny bit of delay. But you're gonna you're gonna die if you're in a dealing with these

Steve Kirsch  23:18  
very quickly. I mean, there's the bear spray test where these Marines get into a tent. It worlds one Marine gets into the tent and, and he has he testing in 95. He just a surgical mask and he tests the gas mask and gas mask. It's like you do the bear spray is like nothing. Like you know, nothing ever happened. To do that. You were in the 95 you hit the bear spray. And it's like, I'm out of here. Come on, get me out of here.

Dr. Paul  23:43  
Yeah. I had a patient can

Steve Kirsch  23:45  
he's wearing goggles too, by the way? Yeah, he's wearing goggles. Right? And how many people were walking around with their n95 and goggles? Nobody?

Dr. Paul  23:53  
Nobody? Yeah. So one of the things you've done that I admire greatly. What we've needed are prospective randomized trials. Now, anytime you do surveys, and I love your surveys, but anytime you introduce a new vaccine, that is your golden opportunity, because nobody has had that vaccine. So there will be a population that's unvaccinated to that vaccine. And why aren't we collecting that data and comparing the matched unvaccinated to the vaccinated, and I push this out there, folks, because parents, you need to be aware, the COVID Jab has been approved by the CDC to go on the childhood vaccine schedule. And that will start next February. It's coming soon. And unfortunately, depending on the state you're in, it may be mandated for school because once they get on that schedule, that's just sort of the way they do things. And the way it goes is Eric Rubin would say it's the way it goes. And I knew that was what they were doing from the beginning because once you get it on the childhood schedule, the manufacturers, the doctors who get it, anybody involved with that shot? Is it completely free of liability. And so it's the Holy Grail of a vaccine company make it product that you can have mandated without liability. My gosh, that's it's like mandated profit who wouldn't want a piece of that action? So we have got a job on our hands, Steve, and I know you're, you're doing everything you can do to inform the public. But we've got to wake parents up. So they they're the last year the last barrier between pharma government, public health officials, schools mandating a potentially lethal dose of vaccine you don't need.

Steve Kirsch  25:37  
Yes. And it's, you know, it's, it's so amazing, you know, and people like my, my friend, Eric Khan would be cheerleaders for like, of course, I'm gonna get my child vaccinated as soon as possible to protect them. But you know, the numbers are amazing, you know, Johnny and NiNis, that it Stanford, he calculated threats, it's three kids in a million. If they got the infection will die. Now, that's it if they got the infection, so figure, maybe one in a million kids might die from COVID. And that's a might die. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  26:15  
What are the numbers for the vaccine estimated

Steve Kirsch  26:16  
the average and so forth, but it's based on on bogus statistics. Because when you actually look at the kids who died and you talk to their parents, you say, Hey, I see that so and so died from from COVID. And they say, No, is a it was a congenital heart defect, usually that they finally succumb to. And so I'm still looking for the child who died from COVID. I mean, that child should be on a poster somewhere saying, Hey, we found a child who died from COVID. And

Dr. Paul  26:49  
from just COVID. You're absolutely right. The way they rigged the system if you died in a motor vehicle accident, but they got a positive COVID test. Yeah. COVID death. Yeah. Yeah, in Oregon, early on the local paper at the coast where I sometimes go visit published from a nursing home, that they had all these COVID deaths. And then the director of the nursing home said, but none of them had COVID. They even got a positive COVID on somebody a week after they

Steve Kirsch  27:15  
died. There you go. At least they didn't die from COVID. They got it a week later.

Dr. Paul  27:23  
recorded as a COVID death horse got a positive.

Steve Kirsch  27:26  
There you go. Yep. So yeah, they're they're incentivized, right? They get more they get paid more if there's a COVID death, and they get paid. I've heard that people that the hospital can get up to $500,000 for COVID death. Have you heard that? They'd been

Dr. Paul  27:42  
in the hospital a long time and then they die? They were in the ICU? Yeah, it ups the reimbursement in a crazy way.

Steve Kirsch  27:48  
Yeah. So I mean, they're, they're incentivized to kill people. Yeah. And in fact, that when I do surveys, I find that more people respond to the idea. My he didn't die from COVID. He died in the from from the hospital protocols for COVID. Right. Right. And, and not really from COVID. itself. And I wanted to make a point here, which which I didn't get in earlier, which is on the sudden adult Death Syndrome. Mark Crispin Miller is the guys who's been tracking this. And so I asked, I asked Mark Crispin Miller, I said, Hey, like how many of these people who died with a sudden adult Death Syndrome, have these people who are unvaccinated? And he said, Well, I found three. And I'm sure he's got, you know, hundreds of of people that he's reported so far. So we're talking three out of, I don't know, maybe it's 150. So 150, who died? I mean, it's like you have a 5050 times greater chance that you're going to be dying from the vaccine, then then dying. From, quote, natural causes, or, you know, the, you know, because people do die from from heart attacks. They've been dying from heart attacks before the vaccines rolled up. It's just we've never seen these numbers. Never. And people are normalizing it like, oh, yeah, people are always like, been at a microphone. And then two seconds later, they're dead. Yep. Like when you went, Paul, when did you ever see that before in your life?

Dr. Paul  29:30  
Yeah, I mean, never, especially Healthy Athletes dropping dead. I mean, this is

Steve Kirsch  29:36  
unheard of. It's now and it's such a normal occurrence now that people then extrapolate it to say, oh, you know, that they've always you know, people have always dropped dead winter. What's the big deal? Yeah. Not like that. It's just

Dr. Paul  29:51  
such a disaster. Steve, we have got to somehow stop it. Yeah, I know. You're trying you're trying your darndest. Do you have any data you might want to just share with the audience? If I

Steve Kirsch  30:01  
So you asked me about the data, this is a presentation I did at the FLCC conference, you know, pointing out that hey, you know, in Israel, they figured it out. Only two and 2.4% are vaccinated. These are the Israeli official numbers. Israel used to be the most highly vaccinated place on on Earth, one of the most highly vaccinated, and now 2.4% are considered to be vaccinated. So they're not buying the story at all in Israel. Now, of course, nobody in America knows this, because it's like, the mainstream media is never going to tell this story. Right? Dr. Aseem Malhotra used to be on TV promoting the vaccines. Father died six months after he got his shot, which is the mean time so it's like five months after you get the shot as the meantime for death. Yeah. And so we started looking at the data. And he's like, uh, Paul is saying, we have this this willful willful blindness to the data. So now he's going out and and talking about how that the vaccine should be stopped. And what's happening is that he's getting interviewed by the press, but the press doesn't run the articles. doesn't want anyone to know, I mean, this is stunning. This guy gets interviewed with by the press, and they don't, and they decide not to run the story, I mean, day. So what's going on, of course, is that, you know, once you're, once you allow yourself to question, what you've been told, and to question what you believe, then all of this unexplainable events, the SIDS, the sads, the all of this stuff just becomes super explainable. And of course, the elephant in the room is that, you know, is the cure worse than the disease? And of course, it is. Great, great book. Oops, this is this is the book all the way down. And this is an awesome book. Have you read it?

Dr. Paul  32:03  
I have. So that book outlines my journey, basically, because I've been in I've been in this vaccine industry for 35 years as a pediatrician. And I woke up about 20 years ago, to the fact that oh, my gosh, we're being lied to, it's a big part of the problem. And now COVID is waking everybody else up, at least anybody still at all able to look at data, the silver lining,

Steve Kirsch  32:25  
these are my injury, my personal injury estimates, your estimates may vary. But I cite all of the research behind these numbers. And, you know, now Dr. Naomi Wolf has had verified that millions of people have been injured and hundreds of 1000s of people have been killed. And so she may not agree with my particular numbers here, but certainly when the same ballpark. Yeah. And so

Dr. Paul  32:54  
you're a smart guy. And if you're a thinking person, parents, being a pediatrician, I'm just horrified that this is going to come at your kids this next year, if you've haven't already fallen for it. For the older kids, your chance of death from the vaccine is far exceeds any one in a million chance that you could die from COVID.

Steve Kirsch  33:12  
Yeah, it's at least 100 a factor of 100. More, even if you believe the vaccines, you know, work as expected. Yeah. And so I actually did a calculation recently with some some recent data and showed that for kids, it's it's 100. It's at least 100 to one. And Dr. Toby Rogers, almost a year ago, had done a calculation and he found it was 117. So using the newest data, I found that it was about 100. In that amazing how these, these numbers line up. And of course in this slide here, it's it's 50 to one, we're killing 50 people for every person we save and COVID. And everybody's is focused on on this number, the number saved, but nobody's looking at the number killed because they're not looking at the heart attacks and strokes and a pulmonary embolisms and so forth. And so I did a calculation very early on Peter McCall asked me hey, can you do an age stratified calculation to find out whether or not the vaccine actually could be effective. And so this is using the ideal vaccine, the vaccine that will save anyone who gets COVID their life will be saved. Right, so if you get COVID Perfect vaccine, so using the perfect vaccine, it still doesn't make any sense because these vaccines kill more people than they saved. And we have this poll numbers we've done independent polls. So this is not following. This is not pulling my followers. This is done using an independent pollsters. And and we found that the the numbers were were larger for the number of people killed by the vaccine. So I made these remarks on Fox News. And of course, they said, well, we can't verify it. I said don't you know find a contact them after the show and give them all the data so they can verify it. And you'll never guess, Paul, they never reached out to me to verify the data that they said they couldn't verify. This is why they can't verify it, because they won't look at it. They won't verify it. It's not that they can't verify it. Right? It's Fox News won't verify the data. I offered them the data. And they never replied. So I posted it. And then after I posted it, I asked Dr. Naomi Wolf to have her team validate my numbers. And she said, Yes, he's right. Hundreds of 1000s deaths. This is what she's got her reputation to uphold. And she's finding that my numbers are right. Yep. You know, like, she's not gonna go a treasurer reputation just to support me, I guarantee him, well, he's willing to run independent analysis. Yep, nobody else will do that. No fact checker will challenge me on this. And, and then I did surveys, right. So this is I forget whether it's Paul fish or fish. They're the these. These, the names of these firms are kind of unusual. Anyway, I think this may be I don't know if this is Paul fish, or what but we did a third party firm. And the link is, is on the slide. And the slide deck is posted on my on my sub stack. And what it showed is that 18, so this is, you're serving 500 People in the surveys, which is large enough to get statistical significance. So they found 18 People had a member of their household die from having a COVID infection. 18 households lost someone, but 38 households lost someone to the COVID vaccine. Now, this is extraordinary, because most people are blue pilled, or at least a receptionist. And so for them to say the vaccine caused a death. I mean, this 18 If you double 18, that's 36. So this is more than two to one. And then there's twice as many people died from the vaccine rather than from the infection. This is why Google and other polling agencies refuse to run any survey, which has both questions. 2.7% said, the vaccinated people report that they're now unable to hold a job. So it's 7 million people disabled. Now, and even if I'm off by a factor of three, even if I'm off by a factor of seven, or 10. This is crazy, these crazy numbers, this unable to hold a job right low,

Dr. Paul  38:08  
if that's an a child that's going to be unable to function in a school environment.

Steve Kirsch  38:15  
This is from the x plus a number of deaths per 1000 people in the UK. Is there a benefits. So there was a report done for the Liberal Party Canada, which is Troodos party looked at the Ontario data and had full access to the Ontario data. There were no benefits for infection, hospitalization or death. Now, how is it that they could find no benefit? You know, and and what's interesting about this report, it was done by anonymous scientists who are tasked by a member of the party to go and do this, because the scientists didn't want to be attacked. Right? If it was a, if the results were good, then they could expose their name. But when the results shown that the policies are nonsensical, the scientists have to duck and run for cover. And, Paul, I'll bet you're a guy who could relate to that.

Dr. Paul  39:12  
Oh, absolutely. Although

Steve Kirsch  39:13  
probably have a story to tell on that one. You bet. Yeah. Yeah. And then on, you know, is there a benefit? There's this great paper. I think it's by Bard class and, and looked at the clinical trial data, there was an increase in morbidity, which was highly statistically significant in all three vaccines. In other words, cure is worse than the disease and the all cause mortality, there is no benefit. There's, you know, it's like, where's the benefit here? So look, these are the blue is every other vaccine except for the COVID vaccine. And you can see that the blues are not going up at all. They're not they don't change. It's only the COVID vaccine. That is elevated. Yeah. Now we're Read

Dr. Paul  40:00  
is reports of deaths since we started recording and 90 now, and there were almost none. Until COVID vaccine was introduced. Bam, those are the deaths.

Steve Kirsch  40:09  
Right? So red is the total, total reports of deaths from all vaccines. And you can see they align, right? Of course, they're gonna match evenly here, because all deaths are are from the noncovered vaccines, because those were the only vaccines available, right? But here they diverge and 2021 and 2022. Now, nobody can explain that, why they diverge.

Dr. Paul  40:33  
What why a signal that massive doesn't respond, result in a total stopping this nonsense. So it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable,

Steve Kirsch  40:42  
right? So there's, there's there, there were three reasons for this, either this massive fraud and gaming. And nobody claims that, right? There's no evidence of that, and nobody claims it. So the FDA and CDC don't didn't claim that. So then the second is that there's massive over reporting, all of a sudden for just a COVID vaccines worldwide in every adverse event tracking system that everybody in the world decided just to over report the COVID vaccines,

Dr. Paul  41:12  
we know there's massive underreporting,

Steve Kirsch  41:15  
correct. Correct. And, and so, but but then we're number three, it's the deadliest vaccine in history. And there's only evidence for number three, and it's overwhelming and the evidence and number two is I actually did a survey of health care workers. And I found it was five times under reported for these vaccines. So the number that you see here, these, these bars should be five times higher, to do a comparison with the other bars.

Dr. Paul  41:42  
Yep. And you're getting up there at 25,000 deaths in 2021. Steven, in wrapping this up, I know you're doing all this polling, you're doing some amazing writing on your substack people. You've gotta go check this out. I read it faithfully every day. I think you're publishing every day. You're prolific. Oh, several times. Yeah. Sometimes it's more than once a day. Oh, yeah. No, it's

Steve Kirsch  42:04  
not. Sometimes it's most of the time, it's more than one. Guilty.

Dr. Paul  42:07  
That's why well, I just keep finding them. And they're all brilliant. So top doctors are calling for an end to this nonsense. We got to stop this, this COVID Jab program. Nothing seems to be happening in that area. Do you have thoughts of how we can get this information out? I mean, I, having lived through this for the last 20 years with the other vaccines I've sort of reverted to just educating people, I think, because if the authorities aren't going to do anything about it, then we we have to educate the population so that they can wake up.

Steve Kirsch  42:42  
Yeah. And there are authorities who are doing stuff about it. Like in Denmark, if you're under 50, you can get the vaccine.

Dr. Paul  42:48  
That is really good news. I read that on your substack just recently. Think of that, folks, there's an entire country where you cannot get it. Those scientists, doctors and even public health officials had realized we made a mistake, and we're not going to keep making this mistake. Right? How do we make that worse?

Steve Kirsch  43:07  
And of course, they rationalize it by saying, Well, now that we have herd immunity from the vaccines, we don't need them anymore, right? Because they're never going to go back and say, We messed up.

Dr. Paul  43:17  
So Steve, you know, this data probably better than almost anybody. Did you get the vaccine?

Steve Kirsch  43:23  
Yes. Cuz I, at the time, I was believing the FDA. I just was like most people thinking like, wow, they are they're the experts. I'm sure they went through all the data with a fine tooth comb. And you can trust the FDA and trust the CDC because they're trustable authorities and everybody in the world trust them. You know, it's like that with the Gardasil vaccine. I mean, that is amazing that they baited Gardasil at the time, and three times as many eave adverse events as all vaccines in history. At the time, Gardasil went on the market,

Dr. Paul  44:02  
Gardasil was the worst vaccine on the market until this COVID thing,

Steve Kirsch  44:06  
right? Yeah, it was, it was the the by far the winner in terms of the most number of side effects. So three times as many as all vaccines in history,

Dr. Paul  44:18  
a couple of thoughts from you, in closing for our audience. What would you want people to do for their own selves? And And second question, what do you see as the way forward for us as a as a population, a nation a world?

Steve Kirsch  44:31  
Yeah, well, you know, first of all, just like, there's a saying Andrew Wakefield was right, and their T shirts that says Andrew Wakefield was right. There shouldn't be one that says Paul Thomas was right, too. So you know, I want to give you credit, Paul for for doing the work and exposing this and speaking out and you know, having your career destroyed for telling the truth. So So first, I want to acknowledge all the work that you've done because most people don't even know who you are. are certainly I mean, I admit I didn't know who you were until James Lyons Weiler said, autonomous, you got to talk to him you understand his story. So I started educating myself on that. So the onion look, the advice is don't get any vaccines, don't get the call that vaccines don't get COVID boosters, and don't get any other vaccines either. And what you should do instead is you should read this book. And you don't have to read the whole book, I will not fault you, if you don't read the whole book, you can read the last chapter, the book II read the first chapter of the book, you can read the third chapter. My favorite chapter is on bears. And then what you do is you ask your doctor, if your doctor tries to get you to take one of these vaccines. Ask your doctor for the all cause. mortality, morbidity, risk benefit analysis? Yep. How many people died? You know, and in the published paper, you have a problem studies show me that? Yeah, yeah. If they can't, if they can't show you that, then you run for the hills.

Dr. Paul  46:10  
Wow, Steve, thank you so much for being on the show. And for bringing this knowledge and impactful presentation to the world. I got to see it at the conference, but now others can see it as well. And how can people get a hold of your information? Let's just make sure they know how to get

Steve Kirsch  46:30  
Steve kirsch.substack.com. So pretty easy to find. Perfect. All right. Thanks. Thank you

Dr. Paul  46:44  
Welcome Bernadette back to the against the wind you are very important feature here you our Public Policy Director of informed choice Washington, a host of informed life radio. And I know you're now in Tennessee, doing incredible work along with getting your big part of the getting ivermectin as a over the counter drug.

Bernadette Pajer  47:05  
So yes, over the counter from a pharmacist to get a couple of questions to ask. And there you go. You can buy it. And I recently was at a big event, a CHD, the inaugural conference. And the demand for the it was in Knoxville, Tennessee, the demand for the ivermectin was really high. And you know, it was really cool. Dr. Paul, there were I think more people who recognize me, and thanked me for my work because of appearing on your show. My own show. Everybody's watching Dr. Paul, I thought that was so awesome.

Dr. Paul  47:36  
Thank you. You are a blessing to the world. And oh, however we can get your message out there. I'm happy to help. And you've been a big help to the show. So thank you. Well, thank

Bernadette Pajer  47:46  
you right back. atcha. Shall we get to it today?

Dr. Paul  47:49  
So what I'm excited about is it's going to be quick, because you know, it's important, but we want to we want to touch on this is the ACI P and CDC vote and what they're doing with the COVID vaccine for the childhood schedule? Yes,

Bernadette Pajer  48:03  
exactly. So most people most of your viewers will have already heard, but let's go over what just happened. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices got together and one of the regular meetings. This is a group that is highly conflicted, but they claim no conflicts. And I've got to tell you that they proudly announced that one of the new members is from the American Pharmacists Association. And he claimed no conflict of interest. All he does is make living selling in vaccine products, right? How can there be no conflict? It's just I don't understand their mindset. On October 20 2022, the ASIC voted 15 to zero to add COVID-19 shots to the CDCs pediatric schedule. And this is six months through 18 years. The CDC schedule is a recommendation at the federal level, it is not a mandate of any sort, it is a recommendation. However, a lot of people, a lot of doctors, they treat it as gospel as law. Each state actually has a method for deciding what is required for daycare and school. And each state has their own exemption laws. Okay. So what we want to try to help individuals do because now is the time. I mean, if you've never been active before, this is it. This is the time for you to stand up and speak out. So if you are not already aligned with the medical freedom group strong in your state, you need to do that now. Right now. The groups in your state who've been working for many, many years on vaccination issues, they know the law they know the process. They know where you need to put your energy to make sure that your state does not mandate these shots. send your kids. So one way to do it is to go to children's health, health defense.org and look for their drop down menu on chapters see if there's a chapter in your state. Or you can go to health choice.org. And look for their affiliates. There's a lot of states that are united underneath Health Choice. And that includes informed choice Washington and the Tennessee Coalition for vaccine choice. If your state isn't showing up there, you can do an internet search without the the Google browser, you're going to have to use another browser. And in order to really find it. Otherwise, you're going to have about 100 pages of CDC web links before you can get to any good information. Another step you can do is call or email, your state health department, email might actually be more useful, because then they will send you links. And I encourage you to ask for the citations to the laws and the rules. So you can read exactly what the law and rule is and make sure that you're not bending the law or abusing the law in your state, and ask specifically what the process is to change school requirements for vaccines in your state. And another step you should take is to call and email your state legislators. Also ask them, Hey, can you cite vaccine law in the state what's required, and let your opinion be known that you do not agree with as a SIP decision, and you do not want ever to have mandates in your state. So get vocal now, I tell you, we need for the next couple of months, we need phones ringing emails stuffed, and people showing up and making appointments everywhere, we have to get very, very loud, it's time to roar like the lion. So search, the other thing you can do is search your state's vaccination laws. So you'll search for say, Tennessee immunization requirements. And it can get you where your need where you need, if all these other things have failed to be too slow for you. And the good news is the fabulous organization called stand for health freedom. I'm actually the Tennessee director of Stanford health.

Dr. Paul  52:18  
Good for you. Yeah, amazing organization. Everybody, you've got to join them, they are doing incredible work

Bernadette Pajer  52:24  
they are and one of the one of the best things they do is create action campaigns, or support state level action campaigns and push them out there. So everybody's aware of them. And also they do national level. I've talked to the people at the national level at Stendra freedom. They're busy gathering the laws and rules in every single state and creating a resource so that you'll be able to go to them and find out what what happens in your state. So you can figure out what to do to take action to prevent the shots bent from being added to the school schedule. So that will be at Health stand for health freedom.com. It's free to sign up, sign up, get on there, get their newsletters, and they'll have your state when you sign up. And that way they can send you some specific information to your state as those specific actions come to be. Absolutely. Yeah. And then one last thing I wanted to share with your viewers here is this awesome art by Bob. Bob, the artist at Bob moran.eu co.uk. He got into the politics of what's happening. A give a little heads up mature warning, if you go look is some of his stuff is really in your face. kind of shocking in some of it. But it's so powerful. So we've got the mama with her her baby and the

Dr. Paul  53:50  
steroids is your time to protect.

Bernadette Pajer  53:53  
Yep. Yeah. And as I mentioned to you early Dr. Paul, I love this art where you know, early on in this, they were saying to vaccinate your children in order to protect the adults and they've done that with other shots as well. Basically using your child as a human shield for adults. But what they really need now with this, this a SIP vote, putting the shots on the CDC schedule, their their goal they're reaching one step closer to is to put the COVID shots under the the liability shield of the ASA back of the VA

Dr. Paul  54:32  
immunization act. Yep, yes.

Bernadette Pajer  54:34  
So that farmer will still not be live ever no liability

Dr. Paul  54:37  
folks zero liability, mandated profit and mandated harm this kids don't need this vaccine. It does basically no good. And it has the potential and it's not just theoretical potential. It has a massive potential for harm.

Bernadette Pajer  54:53  
Exactly. So we really I'd like to ask the artist Bob to put that stab vest on a Representatives from Pfizer and from Maderna because now our babies are being used as human shields for liability protection for Pharma. That's what they're working toward. And so then lastly, this is what we all need to be. And this is what so many people already air already our I believe he titles this one just mama.

Dr. Paul  55:22  
Okay. I would call it breaking free and you know you've take your cub with you. Yeah, parents you have got to protect, it's never been more clear. The voices are growing the numbers of us who are who are like trying to scream from the mountain top. You know, danger, danger, protect, protect. It's honest, like you said, the next two, three months. And if you can't change, you also have to prepare for this. And I know you would agree or can add to this. Parents, you've got to prepare for the fact that if you live in a state like I live in Oregon, all down the up and down the West Coast, certain states their their track record is clear. once something's put on the childhood immunization schedule from the CDC, it's treated as if it's a recommendation not just a guideline. And it's actually treated as standard of care. So very quickly as mandated, and almost reflexively, everybody pediatricians OB GYN, they just start doing it. So the only protection at that point is you the parent.

Bernadette Pajer  56:23  
Exactly. Thank you so much. I couldn't said it any better. Thank you, Dr. Foul.

Dr. Paul  56:27  
Yeah. So last words.

Bernadette Pajer  56:31  
It's time everybody, no matter where you are, what you're doing now you need to make a part of your life to fight this. Yes, CDC has gone insane, and they are harming our children. And it's time for all of us to just rise up and say no, no, it's time for medical freedom. It's time to say no to the captured oversight agencies and protect our children. That's it.

Dr. Paul  56:56  
Yep. Let's put kids first everybody. Thank you, Bernadette. Thank you, Dr. Paul. Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I'm interviewing Dr. Denise Sibley internal medicine for 32 years quite a story. She has treated over 5000 COVID patients. She was part of the group that passed legislation in Tennessee putting ivermectin over the counter first state that's had that happen. She's been threatened with sanction by her own board, the Board of Internal Medicine, we talk about why it's so difficult to be a bear of the truth today, doctors aren't getting involved. How do we make them participate in this? The science is there? What are the barriers for doctors telling the truth and why faith in God matters in medicine more than ever, and why we can't be silent. Bernadette takes us out with information from the Wii safe data and how you can access it. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul here, I'm mad, I'm upset. I'm furious. Actually, the CDC voted unanimously just recently 15 to zero to put the COVID vaccine on the childhood immunization schedule. This starts February of 2023. Folks, that's just a few months from now, what does this mean? This is the horrifying part, it means that in many states, it will be mandated for your child to attend school. In other words, kids will start getting this job, or they can't go to school. And for a lot of people, especially those who are poor, don't have the option of having a stay home parent or a nanny or a private, separate education, they now have to sacrifice their child to a dangerous product. And here's the bad thing. There's no liability to these companies by getting it on the childhood vaccination schedule. You are now free of liability. If you're the manufacturer, if you're the doctor who's giving it the pharmacist who's giving it it doesn't matter who's involved. Nobody has any liability, that liability falls on you, the parent when something goes wrong, guess what happens? Well, it wasn't the vaccine, oh, you must be crazy. It's horrific. And we know children don't need these vaccines. They're not preventing transmission. They're not preventing people from getting super sick or being hospitalized. It's all risk zero benefit for kids, at least for most adults. Heck, there are countries now where they're not even allowing this vaccine to be given under the age of 50. So other places in the world are waking up, what is going on here with CDC? How can 15 out of 15 people with all the information we have just sort of rubber stamp this thing and send it on its way to harm our children. That's why I'm mad. I couldn't live with myself, if I wasn't bringing you this information. You might say, Oh, he's gone off the rails. If you don't understand the topic, you don't have the data. I would ask this, consider just being a little curious. I mean, why would a guy who had it all in the sense of a huge pediatric practice? risk at all. I mean, I knew by speaking out, I risk losing my license. And that's happening. I knew that but I cannot be quiet. Not when our kids lives are in the crosshairs of a very dangerous product, something we've never seen before. So I'd say forgive me because I always like to beg for forgiveness when I go off the rails. But this was this one's the buck stops here. Parents, you got to draw a line in the sand. And no matter what your kid is not going to get that jab. For some of you, it's going to mean homeschooling somehow, some way you figure it out. For others of you, you're going to have to leave the state you live in because you happen to live in a state where they are reckless, callous? I don't know. It makes no sense. There are so many of us doctors and scientists and researchers who have the data we know what's going on. So I beg you to look for the data. And at least while you're investigating, do not let this jab into anybody you care about. Thanks. I'm Dr.

Welcome Dr. Denise Sibley. It is a pleasure to have you on against the wind.

Dr. Denise Sibley  4:13  
Thank you so much. It is such an honor to be with you, Dr. Thomas. You're just someone I really admire. Thank you so much. Oh, well. Thank

Dr. Paul  4:21  
you. You and I have a few things in common. You graduated from medical school right after I did one year later. What I don't have in common with you is things like the Honor Society and class president for 30 years. I mean, you clearly were at the top of your game and have been for a long time. You're a board certified in internal medicine, correct that way for 32 years and kind of uniquely which I think a lot of the greatest physicians of our time, stepped up to the plate when COVID hit us. And I understand you did that you treated over 5000 patients between In the COVID illness prophylaxis long COVID vaccine injury and you've had great success, we're going to touch on that for sure. You've also been involved in legislation, which is pretty cool. You're there in Tennessee and you got ivermectin to be available without a prescription

Dr. Denise Sibley  5:17  
for correct. Yes,

Dr. Paul  5:18  
that's, that's, that's

Dr. Denise Sibley  5:19  
super. We're the only state in the United States

Dr. Paul  5:22  
you are. So we're gonna chat about that you formed Tennessee freedom doctors in 2021. This is to enable clinicians to collaborate and advance medical freedom. I want to learn more about that. And then we'll touch on how you've been sanctioned or threatened to be sanctioned Medical Board, something that seems to happen to just about every great doctor, there is so much more on your resume I could go into but maybe let's just start with, tell that tell our viewers a little bit about your background and how you ended up where you are today? Well, you

Dr. Denise Sibley  5:55  
know, I wanted to be a doctor from a child, I had a medical illness actually, that led me down that pathway. And I came from a family of nurses, and so figured out it could be a doctor met my husband who was also on the same path. And we got married before I finished college. And so he was all to two years ahead of me always. And so we have gone the path, married 41 years. And he's a physician and I'm a physician and I have always loved taking care of people and love helping them in any way. And I love science. Even when I was a kid I got this Christmas present, it was a invisible human and it had a plastic outside and you could see all the organs and take them out. So even from being a child I like the human body and in science. So I've loved I've loved medicine, I loved internal medicine, because it was always a puzzle. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  6:50  
I think back to medical school, and you mentioned internal medicine. And I remember doing my rotations and thinking, I don't know if I'm smart enough for internal medicine. I mean, the charts you know, back in that day, remember you will be given this pile of charts, you're supposed to review and figure out what the heck's going on with this person who has 13 or 20 different medications? And I'm thinking No, not for me. Well,

Dr. Denise Sibley  7:10  
let's see, that was funny, because third year pediatrics was my first rotation. And they sent me in to do a lumbar puncture on a two year old, you know, you can't explain it to a two year old. And I was like, huh, I don't think I wouldn't be able to talk to my patients. So you know, that's funny, because that just turned me off that I couldn't speak to them, you know, and then understand me, but I loved internal medicine, I would do it all again. And it's fantastic. It's like finding the clues, you know, so

Dr. Paul  7:39  
so we're gonna get to COVID. But tell me a little bit because so many physicians who've dared to venture into really taking appropriate care of those with COVID or speaking up about what's going on with the so called vaccine end up in trouble with either medical boards or you've been threatened with sanction by your internal medicine board, apparently. Yes.

Dr. Denise Sibley  8:02  
So I did testify a lot this spring and our Tennessee House and Senate with several bills we were trying to get pass through. And I truly had never been involved in anything like this before. I didn't even know really how it happened. And Bernadette pager who, you know, we met down there, and we're actually live near each other. So I got involved in that. And I wanted to be the I guess they wanted me to be the doctors voice for some of these. And one of them was ivermectin because I believed very strongly in that. And so it was shortly and we got several real academic folks like Merrick and Cory and Malone. And Ryan Cole and Urso and Ladell, they all came down and helped us as well with testimony. So I certainly didn't do it alone. But it was right after that, within two weeks of that finishing, that I received a letter. And it was it was all all of us that received it. Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Mayer, Dr. Corey, we all received it dated the same day. And it was trumping I did not know that that same day. Yes, May 26. And it was a little bit of a form letter, but then it went into the individual sins that we had committed the misinformation. And so they went I don't have any social media. So all they could do was really go to my homemade website that I made in 2020. And they took statements that I made on some videos and said that was misinformation and they threatened to remove my at that time, my last my year was the last year you could get a lifetime certification. And so I studied really hard and I passed it. And so I had lifetime certification. I've never had any trouble with any thing and Medicine never been reprimanded. And so they threatened to sanction our board certification because of misinformation and not agreeing with the consensus. And so that was the sand and we had to make an appeal, which I referenced the 11 page repeat appeal, as did all the others. And that's been, you know, May, and we've not heard a chirp out of them. Dr. Ron Johnson got behind me, excuse me, Senator Ron Johnson got behind many of us, and we invited them to a debate in DC. And of course, none of them would come.

Dr. Paul  10:41  
And have you had any trouble with the Tennessee Medical Board?

Dr. Denise Sibley  10:45  
Know, the Tennessee medical board. And we had some legislation dealing with that, actually. So the legislators put some protections that we could not be censored for COVID treatment or information. So that was part of some of the legislation that went through and even in my ivermectin bill, that was part of the bill. And then last was that anyone who participated in this collaborative agreement was indemnified. So the pharmacist and the physician, so that has been a really great thing that the legislator, most of the legislators are very good about protecting us. So that's been different than than your state. But that's one of the protections they put in for us. That is doesn't deal with anything else. So in that COVID, and it has a sunset law, it's set to expire this next year, in the middle of the year. So you know, what happens then? Or with the next, the next pandemic?

Dr. Paul  11:54  
Maybe you renew it with some additions to protect information on the total vaccine schedule?

Dr. Denise Sibley  12:02  
Exactly. And just to broaden it that, you know, and my my feeling is, it's the sanctity of the doctor patient relationship. Yeah, I know my patient best. I don't need a government entity entity to tell me what to do. I'm still capable of reading studies and figuring out what's best for my patients,

Dr. Paul  12:23  
and perhaps get something in there about informed consent, the process of informed consent, not being subject to being called misinformation or disinformation.

Dr. Denise Sibley  12:38  
Correct, correct. Yes. Because informed consent is truly lacking in so many things. I really feel like COVID opened my eyes, or the scales fell from my eyes. I, I was not as alert as a you know, as a busy practitioner. I just didn't read the studies myself, I read the abstracts and through the journal light. And now, now I know how biased all of those things aren't, I can actually read a study more critically. And so that's something I've gained even at six to do that. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  13:16  
So So COVID is still upon us. To some extent, I mean, I, I feel like it's fading out. But people still have fear. And you have so much experience having been treating people for the last two and a half years, and how many people you've treated? What is your current recommendation to people about? You know, what they can do to prevent getting it? If they do get it? What should they do? And what are your thoughts about the vaccine, and of course now and this fall, they're rolling out this dual vaccine. Maybe you can expand a little bit, you have so much more experienced than I do actually treating sick patients.

Dr. Denise Sibley  14:00  
Yeah, so I didn't ask to be a COVID. Doctor first. I happened to be available because of just God's providence. When COVID came, and I was paying attention, because I actually have a daughter in France. So they were six weeks ahead of us that was pay attention to the data. They're way ahead of the people here. And I knew that in 2003, they'd use hydroxychloroquine. And for SARS, cov. One, and so when the first two people call me, I was excited, you know, to actually, oh, I think I'll use hydroxychloroquine you know that there was actually papers written on that back in that day,

Dr. Paul  14:41  
and was an author on one of those studies. So he was an author of that, yes, amazing. He knew it worked, and yet he got in the way of us using it. And so

Dr. Denise Sibley  14:51  
the first thing that really made me scratch my head is I called in 10 Plaquenil or hydroxychloroquine, which I mean, I have family close friends and, and hundreds of patients on that four room tall rheumatologic diseases, you know, Sjogren syndrome, you name it. I've said everybody to on their mission trips with hydroxychloroquine. So I've used it my whole career. It's older than me. It's older than me. Okay. So. So I called in 10, to the Walgreens. And they wanted to know what it was for. And I was very proud. I was like, I'm treating COVID, even new the new code. And they said, well, we can't get it to you. You know, I just I could not comprehend. And I said, Do you not have it? You know, what's the problem? And she goes, Oh, wait, we can't give it to you for that. And I just hung up the phone and was flabbergasted. So I called another pharmacy. Same thing. And I mean, we're talking 10 tablets, it wouldn't cost less than $10. And I've been calling it in all my life. Right? I actually, you know, I finally got them some. But I just hung up the phone, I said, I said to my husband, something is very, very strange. And that started, you know, I said, We've never done medicine like this. And that started me down the whole, the whole rabbit trail, so to speak of just what is going on? Why are they treating this differently, we've never behaved like this. And of course, it opened my eyes. And then when I opened my eyes to the deception of COVID. And all of the fake studies and the things they were doing just the things that didn't make sense, wear masks, and we knew they didn't help with respiratory illnesses at all before this, you know, in this stay at home. We've never done that all the countries all together. So a lot of it didn't make sense. Our church closed, couldn't could, I mean, just crazy things as you know. And so I started doing my own research. And, and I had time, that was the blessing. I had time, if it had been a busy time, I don't think I would have paid as much attention. But the combination of odd sayings that didn't make sense in my 40 years of being out of medical school, and then having the time to actually look so when the Pfizer trial data came out, it was December 10. I stayed up all night. And I read it with a yellow highlighter and a red pen stayed up all night. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. And you know, I had time to do those kinds that 1000s of hours of self study, and just digging in and trying to find colleagues who, you know, we're doing things in France or in Texas and New York. And it really began Paul, a collaborative agree a collaborative system among physicians, which I've missed, because with I didn't do electronic records, I was still on paper. And but um, you know, with that came isolation, especially as a solo practitioner, I was, you know, by myself, I had good clinician, nurses, but I was by myself and the other calling each other wasn't there anymore. And now we started talking and emailing and just, you know, what would you do? What do you what are you doing? And I love that. It was like, medicine blossomed again, like we used to do. And so I learned, and I learned about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin and so what would I recommend now?

I think ivermectin is the is the way to go. I think it has a longer period, during which it's helpful. hydroxychloroquine. I've used a lot of it. In fact, in the beginning, that's all I had, I didn't know about ivermectin. And so, ivermectin, we did sort according to weight. And there's great protocols on the FLCC, which is really who I've been following a lot know those people very well. And so I would recommend if you have anything that feels like COVID, or don't wait, right now, the tests are negative, those rapid tests are negative two or three times before they test positive and just go ahead and take your ivermectin for at least five days, you can take it longer because it helps there's three phases COVID, antiviral, the inflammatory. And then you've got the coagulopathy. And actually, the ivermectin helps with all of those phases, and it helps with vaccine injuries. There's really no point in the disease that you can't find a benefit. So to me, it's the most broad, broadly used one I use it for prevention. So some people that have been keen Yep. Or they have some kind of cancer, they might stay on it twice a week. And they have from the very beginning, when we started using ivermectin, it's a good prophylactic for post exposure. So if a husband has COVID, I'm going to go ahead and treat his wife, because she's living there in the house, she's gonna get it and give her five days of post exposure prophylaxis. And then you get into the long haul syndrome, which long haul to me means that you had COVID. And you had symptoms there were residual, and then there's vaccine injury. So I don't I don't call getting vaccinated, and having persistent symptoms long COVID. That's a vaccine injury. And so I have over 600 of those patients, and

Dr. Paul  20:51  
you have 600 vaccine injury patients. And how many long haul patients who are not vaccine injured.

Dr. Denise Sibley  21:00  
Not that many, probably about more like 250, something like

Dr. Paul  21:04  
that. This is really affected a lot of people

Dr. Denise Sibley  21:07  
and it is affecting if you're treated early. With COVID, with one of the medications, you're much less likely to have any long COVID symptoms, it is pretty amazing. If you stop the virus, you will you will not get into line I've had COVID Probably not vaccinated. And I, you know, my nine year old mom and 92 year old dad at COVID, as well as my whole family, and we had it during delta. So

Dr. Paul  21:41  
yeah, I had it as well at about a week of fatigue, and, you know, fever at the very beginning chills for one night. But I'm in pediatrics and in pediatrics kids just get well quick if they even get sick at all. And the only real disasters have been people who got the vaccine and ended up with myocarditis. I had one child hospitalized for that first myocarditis case I'd ever seen in my career. Tell us more about long haul the symptoms. What are people experiencing? And what are the things you're doing that are most effective?

Dr. Denise Sibley  22:15  
There's a whole protocol on FLCC as well, for long haul. And so there it's it's various agents and you really have to tailor it to the person. So a lot of people have fatigue. A lot of people have shortness of breath, easy fatigue ability, neurologic symptoms, some have brain fog, they can't concentrate, they can't do their computer job, their eyes don't converge. They feel like gi they have a lot of loose stools, they're a lot less loss weight. Those are some of the most common, but I think the and then the vaccine injury, certainly neurologic symptoms are the most common. And sorry, and so those are it's very hard to treat vaccine injury because each person is different. They can have pulmonary neurologic, liver, everything, every every system can be involved and is very individualized. So you try one agent like an ivermectin that's always first I'll try some of the anti histamine therapy because a lot of it is an anti inflammatory reaction. So or an inflammatory reaction, so I'll use for motivating and, and one of the h one blockers like Benadryl or Allegra and then we use low dose Naltrexone. fluvoxamine mean, there's a whole host of things. And different people have different things that they found helpful. But anything, I just try and go one step at a time so that you know what helps. And if it doesn't help, then we back off and we try something else. So it's super individualized, it's individualized medicine. And there's not a one size fits all, but they are the most devastating of doctors and nurses and pharmacists, and senators and representatives that are vaccine injured. People have been disabled. Yeah. Physical Therapists that's in a wheelchair with a trach.

Dr. Paul  24:40  
So these people seek you out. I'm guessing because you take this seriously and you understand why it happened it How are most of your peers in your area? They're dealing with this.

Dr. Denise Sibley  24:55  
Okay, so I'm so low and I have been since 2003. I used to be a part of a bakery. Uh, and most folks in this area, I'd say 95% of doctors are in a big group, or are owned by the hospital, the monopoly health system here. So they're pretty captured. They can't do a lot, or they've been told that things will happen to them if they do. And so it's the baby little band of us independence and a lot of us are my age, though, and some of them have come out of retirement. We've had, we've got E and T's, we've got OB GYN, we've got pediatricians, we've got neurologists, we've got plastic, we've got anybody that will help, help. And we get together as a little band, and we share information. And they other folks, I mean, they'll actually give my phone number. So the big group or I used to work will give my phone number out.

Dr. Paul  25:58  
They today they somehow don't feel like they can risk their career to do what is clearly the right thing to do. Isn't that is this insane?

Dr. Denise Sibley  26:10  
It it is. It's just not ethical. I couldn't go to sleep at night. I don't know. Well, and I saw that. So I one of the big, huge things that happened was I had a patient. This was in February of 21. And he called me from his ICU room he had got got my cell phone because I use my cell phone. And he said, I think I'm done a COVID and someone sent me one of your videos. Would you help me? He was in the hospital, just you know, not far from my house. And I said, Well, yes, I'll I'll help you. But you know, I, I can't come you're obviously you know, they have the hospitalist system, and that whole thing, you know, can't come in and do that. But, um, but I will help you Sorry. And so I embarked and went up the chain of command at that hospital. So I talked to his primary, his hospitalist, his pulmonologist, the CMO, went up the whole chain of command, can we do this? Can we get ivermectin? No, not allowed to have our machten. What if his family brought in No, not allowed. So at that time, the court orders to to give patients ivermectin was popular, so hard on the sevens attorney, because all the rest of the conflicts of interest with the health system. They said they would help us. And we were going to get a court order to administer the Avermectin. Because he really was he was sick. And they weren't feeding him. They weren't giving him IVs. He was on BiPAP. He couldn't eat. And he was very desperate. And of course, his family, you know, was allowed in just rarely. And he was scared to death. And the long and short of it is is that the hospital monopoly system, though their legal team, just petrified, the lawyer I chosen and he he just couldn't do anything. And so we got nowhere with that. And there was really nothing else I could do. And it it made me physically, ill. Yeah. And I had to talk to the CMO. And I said, what you're doing is wrong. You are killing people. And the reason why your staff is so burnt out, because is that it's not yes, they're working. But they know what they're doing is wrong, and you're making them do it. And that's why they're burnout. It's a cognitive dissonance. It's, it's unethical and they know it. That's what's wrong with your staff. Because I noticed, and anyway, it didn't change their minds. And I, his wife wanted me to go and pray for him. Because his own pastor wouldn't go. And so I said, Okay, I can do that. I will I will do anything. And I I took some olive oil to anoint him with a little bit anyway. And they were watching me through the windows because I made the mistake of wearing my badge. And I didn't know that was a mistake. I've worn it for 30 Some years in that hospital. That's how you get in. But I prayed for him. And I left. I did not do anything else. I did not touch anything in the room. And by the time I got down to the the entrance of the hospital, they were calling me told me I was inappropriate. But I violated visitation policy. And I said, Well, I was there as a minister. And they said, Well, you had your badge on

Dr. Paul  30:01  
Oh my goodness, go figure. This man survive. No, you die, but has to break.

Dr. Denise Sibley  30:08  
I mean, that made me sick enough that I mean physically sick, physically sick. And it wasn't it was. Absolutely I said this is this is pullout war. And it didn't stop me at all. In fact, I was like, if this is what they're doing to people, I'm turning up about 10 notches. And so ever since then, I mean, it's been full out ever since the beginning. And I felt like I have nothing to lose. You

Dr. Paul  30:42  
know, I mean, we, God bless you for standing strong against all that adversity. You've clearly saved hundreds, if not 1000s of lives. And how many more could have been saved? If we could have somehow reached our peers? What can we do? Why? What's the barriers for these doctors? I mean, I know there's the economic threat of you're gonna get fired. That's a big one.

Dr. Denise Sibley  31:06  
Well, there's such capture, there's capture everywhere, there's capture the medical schools, there's captures of the the regulatory agencies, this captures of the hospital. I mean, all the protocols came down from on high, even our most latest masking policy, which just came out this week. It came from on high at the at the health system, not? I mean, it's it's corporate policy. The legislative folks are I mean, some of them are captured. There's capture everywhere, and I don't know how to wake them up. Now, if someone has an honest question, I will talk to them all day, and there have been a few. But most people, they they, you know, yeah. You know, they do not want to hear anything, because I believe it hurts them. It hurts them to hear the truth. And they can't, to me, it's a pride issue. They can admit after two and a half years that they were wrong, and what have they done. So they would just rather keep their head down and continue on the same path. So I don't know how to fix it if they're not awake. You know, our phone, some some family members are not awake. I mean,

Dr. Paul  32:24  
yeah. What, what kind of outcomes have you had,

Dr. Denise Sibley  32:28  
I've had super outcomes. I mean, during Delta, when it was really, really severe. I got some folks that were day 10 and 12 that were sent to me. And that's a hard time to turn the boat around because you're into the full, what really kills people's that inflammatory phase where their lungs, you know, turn into what we used to call boop B O P, you know, an organizing pneumonia kind of thing. And they need a lot of steroids. And they weren't giving them steroids in the hospital. They were given dexamethasone six milligrams twice a day, if you could get that, but, and remdesivir, which was killing people, but I had four deaths. Now with the vaccine injured, I've had five folks die this summer vaccine that I could not I could not turn the boat around. They had just such a multitude of problems. And I I tried my best and you know, they ended up going into the hospital and had you know, cult total collect dummies on the vent. I mean bleeding everywhere, pulmonary, total respiratory failure and kidney failure. And I couldn't turn that boat around so that and I've only had one person on oxygen since the winter. And that was someone who was a four shot person. So nobody unvaccinated has been on oxygen this whole summer.

Dr. Paul  34:04  
So then you probably have a formed opinion about the vaccines. What are you telling your patients?

Dr. Denise Sibley  34:10  
Well, they're not vaccines, they're Genet genetic therapy. And I use that just so that they they know the term vaccine, and that's what it's called. But it's genetic therapy. And from the get go, that was one thing that I really dove into that, Oh, for 10 years, we've been trying to make a genetic therapy vaccine and it's not work because of ad E and you know, the animals didn't make it and Hmm But all of a sudden we're gonna skip the animal trials and just do it and and we'll see how it goes.

Dr. Paul  34:47  
Let's experiment on the human population. You throughout the term at that others may not understand

Dr. Denise Sibley  34:54  
and enhancement so yes, when you've given someone so the lots that have been available have been the original Wuhan sequence, or whatever they were, you know, people differ on what it actually was. But it was the original sequence or the original variant, let's say. And so they've continued to give that repeatedly even though the variants have changed. And when you do that, you lock someone into making antibodies against that. But if another one comes in infects them, they then have a decreased ability to fight that it actually puts them at a decreased advantage. And so it makes the symptoms worse, the disease worse. And that's what they saw in the animal trials for the 10 years. Before leading up to these genetic vaccines, they could never bring one to market. I think the RSV was tried in some children that was deadly. But it, it, it's a priming, it's hard to explain in layman's terms, but it's a priming or rent original antigenic sin where you're, you're, you're making someone very sensitive to one element. And when another variant of that comes around, your body just kind of is going around the gerbil wheel on this one, and the other one just takes over and you have worse disease. So it's a very inefficient way of treating an illness. And it's actually why we have negative vaccine efficacy. And what that means is that getting the shots, makes you more likely to get COVID over and over. And I've seen that this summer. So,

Dr. Paul  36:45  
and this wasn't a illness traditionally that you would see in the summer.

Dr. Denise Sibley  36:50  
Now we had more viral, febrile illnesses this summer than I've ever seen in my entire practicing life. Never seen so many. And And now, you know, there are See, I was looking at the scorecard for our hospital yesterday. I think there are there's been over almost 700 people that have died since March of COVID. Really, at our hospital system, now it's a 21 facility system, and 21 counties, but and you know, I think they had if I'm remembering the right, I think it was 50 people in the hospital. So I mean, those aren't people I know, you know, that are running in my circles. But the COVID You know, the person I have had on a ventilator and on him oxygen was a foreshock person. And what do I think about the by Vaillant? So, as you know, on Wednesday before Labor Day, that was authorized emergently by the FDA. Then on the Friday, the CDC gave their good, good authorization for it. And then by Tuesday after Labor Day, it was already in our Walgreens here. Wow, I was like, Wow, that's pretty fast. How do they get to Podunk Johnson City, Tennessee, so quit over a holiday. But anyway. So the by Vaillant was tested on eight mice, and when they expose the mice, they all got it, and then they sacrificed them. No humans whatsoever. And it combines the Wuhan original strand was the BA for ba five. And who knows what happens when you combine that the mice

Dr. Paul  38:44  
don't even really know what happened to the rats because they sacrificed them. Correct. So that's research

Dr. Denise Sibley  38:51  
that anybody that you know, I just I scratched my head if you if you think that safe and I tell people, they can't understand this well, unless I use this illustration. And I don't think it's unique to me. But if he gave your dog three rabies shots in a year, and he still got rabies, what would you think

Dr. Paul  39:14  
we should give for?

Dr. Denise Sibley  39:17  
And people are like, Oh, okay, I get it. You know, so

Dr. Paul  39:23  
I like your example. Yeah, it really is.

Dr. Denise Sibley  39:26  
It makes people sicker and sicker. And now we have you know, people so sick after three, the third one, especially getting that third one and then the fourth one. And Lord forbid if you and nobody has called me that's actually admitted to the the five Eylandt. But yeah, that's kind of a funny thing, too, because I know where I stand so they'll often not. Tell me it isn't folks.

Dr. Paul  39:59  
I hope you take note of that point in that is, be honest about the fact that you've taken these jabs. Those of us who can help you will take that information and run with it so that we can really help you.

Dr. Denise Sibley  40:15  
Right? Yeah. So but yes, my ivermectin over the counter is wonderful we, I bet you I get a thout. So they're all under my name, have 22 pharmacies now, in Tennessee. So it's selected pharmacies that have entered into this very specific agreement, prescribed by the law. And it defines who can get it. And, you know, the contraindications or the reasons you can't get it. That would be if you're under 18. That was in the law. I excluded pregnant and breastfeeding women just because I'm an internist. And I don't want to go into that. And then there are certain drugs and there's just a few. But otherwise, you can walk physically into these. And you have to physically be there can't be mail order to you. You can walk physically in and get ivermectin behind the counter.

Dr. Paul  41:10  
How does one figure out which pharmacies are?

Dr. Denise Sibley  41:13  
Well, I have, we have lists, you know, and I just added one yesterday. But we have medical tourism. Now. Apparently, it's gone out everywhere. And people from Toronto, come here. People from California, I love

Dr. Paul  41:29  
talking about a life saving medication that you're being denied. I get it. So how would one reach you?

Dr. Denise Sibley  41:37  
Well, I have a website that's old, because I haven't had time to update. It's called Denise Sibley md.com.

Dr. Paul  41:45  
Well, before we wrap up, I'd be interested in your input on a couple of things. These are big questions. So okay, I can kind of cut them down into bite sized pieces. One is, what's going on? Why is this happening on such a global scale?

Dr. Denise Sibley  42:04  
It's been many years in the planning. And I was oblivious to it. But obviously, I think there are patents, and there are plenty of documents. To reference, it was not hidden, really, it was hidden to me, because I wasn't paying attention to that. But I think there are plenty of documents and scenarios, tabletop exercises, whatever, that this has been in the plan for a long time. And it is a global phenomenon. And that's one of the things that makes it so different from anything we've seen in medicine. And that's why everybody does exactly the same thing. And why doctors, you know, in another country are being censored, just like we are. So my version of it has more of a biblical perspective, that this is actually the fulfilment of some of the things in the Bible. So I'm, I'm not afraid. And I'm not scared, and definitely is. But I've heard you say faith over fear. I've got that all over my house, faith over fear. And so to me, it's a very exciting time, because we are warriors of the truth. We have boots on the ground, and I will, as Robert F. Kennedy says, I will die with my boots on even if it's unpopular, but there are few of us.

Dr. Paul  43:32  
Yep. And I've always felt like the truth is singular, but but then I get challenged by people who say, Well, no, that's your truth. I have a different truth. And we I know we have to have a dialogue to help people come along, because I mean, even you and I who are now much more aware of what's going on. We weren't aware at one point. And so you know, I mean, I remember way back when where I was saying vaccines are safe and effective. End of story.

Dr. Denise Sibley  44:05  
It is a journey and people are if they have open eyes and open ears and they want to learn that's one thing but if they have their their ears totally closed. I don't know how you know, some federal have to wake them up. But I don't sit in argue with people. I don't find that helpful.

Dr. Paul  44:26  
Well, I've so enjoyed this talk. Dr. Sibley. What would I want to have you just give last words for our audience? Maybe a message of hope.

Dr. Denise Sibley  44:38  
Well, you know, I I think it's the most exciting time to be alive. And that sounds really strange. But it's exciting because you can make such a difference. And you can be the hope that people need and help them to not hide behind their mask or to hide in their house and to say hey, there's something You can do if you get sick, you don't have to worry. You know, there are people to help. And so to me, again, my Christian worldview gives me a lot of hope. Because I know where this is headed. But just that I have something that I can give folks that can give them encouragement during this really, really dark time. And I think that's why we're here. And that's what that's what invigorates me. And why I do it all again. Even at this point, you know, I could just kind of return the grandma or something. I don't know, but, but I'm very invigorated. And I want to offer hope because there's not a lot of hope bears out there. And truth bears, and I will always be a truth bear. Even if it costs me. I, I'm fine with it. So just, you know, be the truth. And be the light. And don't be afraid. Don't be a slave of death. Because that's not good mentally, physically, socially. It's not good for you spiritually. So it's, that would be my message of hope to be a truth bear and a light bear always. And pray big like Polly Polly, Tommy says for a bit. Get out. And, and keep keep with your people. You know, community is so important. We are in a group every night. It seems like

Dr. Paul  46:38  
a man. Just like you. Just like

Dr. Denise Sibley  46:41  
you. Yep. Hi. My daughter introduced me to you. You know, my daughter introduced me to you and she's a pastry chef. And but she knew somehow that you had the words of wisdom and I listened to you. So here I am a doctor didn't even know you. And your your courageous and your methodical way. Impressive impresses young mama bears, and I'm an old grandma bear.

Dr. Paul  47:12  
I'm kind of grandpa bear with you there. And it's a real honor and a privilege to have gotten to know you. You have a very powerful message and and very gentle way of sharing it. So I think this adds a lot to our movement. And we should Circle round again at some point. Have a blessed day.

Dr. Denise Sibley  47:31  
Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Paul.

Dr. Paul  47:40  
Welcome to against the wind Bernadette pager, it's always a privilege to have you on the show you are bringing us be the news AI and today you're bringing some really important information that's just sort of been released the V safe data. So give us a little introduction on what that is and what it means for us.

Bernadette Pajer  47:59  
All right, I'd be very happy to do that. So yeah, so after more than a year, the attorney Aaron Siri and the informed consent Action Network finally managed to get the de identified V Safe App Data. And so the refocus is now that we have information to this data, let's examine what this means. So the CDC, with the COVID-19 vaccines coming out, created this app that people who got the shot could put on their smartphone and check in regularly and the app would check in with you to ask how you were doing. And so here's the address there if anybody wants to go visit that. So, you know, it's all this sort of user friendly and I personally find this a little bit offensive considering how serious the shots are and the adverse reactions happening to have all these little smiley faces and cheerful fonts and all this this is serious medical intervention here. Not cartoons. But anyway, some key facts to know the V safe debt data represents. Well, the first point is at least 262,908,000 people according to USA facts.org have received at least one dose of a COVID shot in the United States. The visa date. Go

Dr. Paul  49:25  
ahead point right there is something else. So aren't there like 300 million people in the US?

Bernadette Pajer  49:30  
I don't know the population. That's a good question. Well, it says 79% of the population has received it. That's their claim. So it astounds me and the VSA data represents 10,108,000 Approximately individual users. So the data that we're seeing there is just 3.9% of the total number of people have got a shot. The vast majority of people 90 6.1% of the people did not use this app created by the CDC. That's for whatever reason, and a lot of people have never even heard of it. And the CDC fairly quickly stopped promoting it, stop talking about it, stop making sure people used it. I wonder why?

Dr. Paul  50:18  
I wonder why we're gonna talk about that.

Bernadette Pajer  50:21  
The app has very limited pre populated symptom fields to check. And I will show you what those are. The apps free form field data has not been released yet. We'll talk about that. And it only allowed for 250 characters to type in. And you know, anybody who's tried to limit characters and making any sort of posts knows how little that is. The FDA and the CDC, prior to the release of these shots, both had lists of adverse events and special interests that they wanted to watch for that they knew the shots had biological plausibility based on the platform and the ingredients and past science that they knew to watch for. But there was none of none of those were pre populated in this app. And so as somebody was progressing, using their app to report ongoing and increasing symptoms, there was no easy way to do it, there was no way to tell them, they were experiencing it and base. And of course, the the outcome is unknown for all the app users because you know, there, there was no way you could be well one day and have a stroke the next and unless somebody was picking up your phone and entering that in for you. They weren't,

Dr. Paul  51:38  
we might have underreporting of deaths,

Bernadette Pajer  51:41  
and the reporting of deaths Vera DFE. Safe, it's not where deaths are being reported. Definitely

Dr. Paul  51:46  
report your death if you're already dead.

Bernadette Pajer  51:49  
Exactly. So they had three categories of adverse health outcomes that the BCF Safe app was asking about if you were unable to perform normal activities, if you missed work or school, or if you required medical care. They asked about that. It freeform, again, limited to 250 characters, and these are the symptoms that you could check the box and then degree of severity that you're experiencing. And you can see that these, these could be severe. But most of them aren't things that you know, when you look at loss of appetite, sleepiness, chills, nausea, you know, general unwellness, they certainly don't represent the severe adverse reactions that people are reporting to theirs, and being reported all over. So I wanted to give you an idea back in 2021, in the spring, an individual in Washington State was severely injured by the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. And I guess we call that one a shot as well, because it's DNA technology. It's different. It's close to the mRNA. It still makes your body produce spike protein. But anyway, this was her freeform text, there's a little snapshot where she her symptoms were getting progressively worse, and she had to keep going to the ER and her health was just spiraling and she was really afraid. And here's one just show she's typing helped me. And they are not helping her. Nobody from the CDC is getting back to her. We have heard some people have heard from the CDC, but not everybody is being helped or being reached out to by the CDC. And she's been keeping a highly detailed record of everybody she has reached out to including the pharmaceutical company. And it's going to be amazing when her data all comes out. She's writing a book about the experience. Here is a list of the preliminary list of adverse events of special interests that the CDC and FDA both knew to look for. And there's an article on informed choice ba.org. There's the link, if anybody wants to go read the full page with links to the the Virbac meeting where these were presented the FTAs vaccine and related biological advisory committee meetings where these were presented prior to authorization of the shots. Dr. Paul, what do you think about some of those health issues listed?

Dr. Paul  54:25  
Well, there's some serious stuff there.

Bernadette Pajer  54:28  
And have you have you seen any of that reported to you, too, there's too in the media?

Dr. Paul  54:36  
Well, yeah, there's some of that and there's for sure, myocarditis, for example.

Bernadette Pajer  54:41  
You know what I looked through it, it I believe they have all been, yeah, every single one of those has been reported to VAERS in some form, and some of them quite a bit. And there are some things I don't think it had that a couple of things that have shown up in high numbers that aren't there. Are we seeing um, have appendicitis. That one is showing up quite a lot of errors and the tinnitus. I don't see tinnitus listed. Not a complete list. But this is what they were going to be looking for. And yet there was no way to report it. Unless you free texted it in that app, you know, as things went forward. So wonderfully, I can decide they must have hired some amazing programmers who are ready to go with a program that allows you to search the data once it came in, because the day they got it, this went up. It's fantastic. So everyone can go to I can decide.org, backslash v dash safe dash data and get to this wonderful forum where you can explore you can do some research and find out what you can on the limited data provided you can see what's what's there. And and you'll see that about a third of the people had their health impacted, in 1.2 million reported. See what was the category there? Well, point 8 million had to seek medical attention. required medical attention 1.3 million Mr. Worker school, and 1.2 million have their normal activities interrupted. So this, this data is going to be good to have. It is limited, but I know a lot of people are doing a deep dive to see what they can make of it to try to paint a better picture and we'll bring you that information as it comes along.

Dr. Paul  56:50  
Yeah, this burned out. This is a new, very important resource of vaccine injury. Unfortunately, most of the studies were control groups or destroy they were not doing any ongoing studies, Pfizer, moderna, all of them. So this is a great resource. I just read an article on CHD children's health defense published on October 3, or fourth. And they'd already discovered in this data that just went up. At that point, just less than a million people were seeking medical attention emergency room care or hospitalization following the vaccine and 2.5 million missed work school or normal activities as a result of the vaccine, massive numbers of significant injury. So and as important.

Bernadette Pajer  57:43  
Sorry about that. Yeah, go ahead. Well, like you know, I can't help thinking when I look at that one that you could check for like a stomach ache. And I think of Maddie Degray. And when she was in the clinical trial, and she to the clinical trial, limited what you could easily report on their standard forms. And early on, you know, it's like, well, stomachache, you know, they were her mother was trying to find out what to check, right. And that's what she ended up being officially reported with, not in a wheelchair paralyzed, unable to eat seizures, all the other things that actually happened to her. This is alarming, because as you know, we cannot make good public policy decisions. We can't make good individual health decisions without good data. And this is so infuriating. We were promised when these products were released, that that the CDC and the FDA and all the federal agencies were going to use, they listed four or five different monitoring systems that they would use. All of them suffer from quality issues from under reporting. And then lack of access, like the vaccine safety DataLink data, which might be able to actually really answer some questions they don't give anybody access to. And what the new study just came out on aluminum adjuvants, and this by the CDC themselves, because they were tasked to study certain conditions related to exposure to pediatric vaccines, and they their analysis of the VSD data show that the more aluminum you're exposed to, the more your risk of persistent asthma goes up. It took them how many decades to do this study. Right? Why weren't they doing it all along? Right. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  59:43  
So that's a topic I jack lines we learned I published about the fact that the CDC schedule creates a situation with regards to aluminum, where infants are above toxic levels for the first seven months of their lives. Yes, 30% of the time, if you're four Following the CDC schedule, yes, it's tragic.

Bernadette Pajer  1:00:04  
So if we're going to have a couple of decades delay of finding out the truth of these COVID shots, and the amount of injury is so blatantly in your face, what do we do about it? Dr. Paul, how do we get the public health agencies done? Let me give you one example, if I may. In Washington State, the the state now the Office of Financial Management, which oversees public employees, state employees has just mandated the COVID shots permanently. And we sent them and hundreds of people sent them current data and published studies on the shots, how they don't prevent infection, transmission, hospitalization, DAFI injuries, the whole thing? What did they write back? We reviewed all the comments sent in. But the CDC says says the vaccines are safe and effective. Wow. So how do we get that's our big challenge. Dr. Paul, how do we get checks and balances into this public health system where nobody feels responsible at any stage, for the outcome of pushing these products, we have got to figure that out.

Dr. Paul  1:01:19  
We've got our we got our work cut out, we have to educate the population so they can fight for their own rights, for bodily integrity, and just say no to any kind of experimental jab. Folks, we have too much information. I mean, you're you're seeing it right now with his V save data. And, and then, sadly, state by state, we fight through legislation. I know you're very involved with that. And you've actually had a success in Tennessee with getting ivermectin over the counter. Good job there. To help change the laws so that the these public health officials can't just declare an emergency and do whatever they want.

Bernadette Pajer  1:01:59  
Exactly, exactly. And we're up to it. So everybody be the news, because we need to spread it. You know, just because you are awakened, aware, and you feel like everybody must see what I see. It never, you know, it still surprises me. I step outside my bubble. And I speak to somebody who is aligned with me, but on some topics they haven't heard yet, because the censorship is so strong. And sometimes we forget when we're in this bubble of good information, that most of the world is not in our good bubble. And we have to burst the bubble and get it out there. So it takes hand walking the information.

Dr. Paul  1:02:39  
Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for helping us burst the bowl Berger, always a shining light and a good example of how to do research and how to get to the real crux of the matter and the truth of the matter. So thanks again for your help with against the wind.

Bernadette Pajer  1:02:55  
Thank you, Dr. Paul. Take care.

Dr. Paul  1:03:02  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you.

Please help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors in science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Dr. Paul  0:31  
Dr. Paul, here your host for against the wind doctors in science under fire. In today's show, I'm interviewing Dr. Merrill NASS. She had a day long hearing with the Maine Medical Board. She's not alone, folks, doctors across the country are facing medical boards that are trying to take their licenses, because they're treating patients with COVID, who have been prescribed ivermectin, or hydroxychloroquine. Or they've spoken in a way about the COVID vaccine that is not positive. The Federation of medical boards has made a call and a ruling to all state medical boards that these doctors should lose their licenses. So she's not alone. But she is a giant and a pioneer. And she's facing her medical board right there in Maine. And then Josh gets Gao covers a leak from the Israeli Ministry of Health on COVID safety data, updates us on what's going on in the world of censorship. And then he does an analysis of the Pfizer trial data, powerful stuff. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. My word for today is forgiveness. I think we've all done things at one time or another, where we kind of know we need forgiveness. I know I certainly have done plenty. And you know if there's someone I need to forgive, and I don't I keep myself in bondage. So I actually had this experience with the medical board, where I felt like I was so wrong. And I was so justified in how wrong they was that I just finally realized that I was not forgiving whatever it was that I needed to forgive so that I could be free. When it comes to forgiveness, I think the person I've had the hardest time forgiving as myself is beat yourself up sometimes that you've you could have done it better, or how could I have hurt that person in that way. But when you can forgive yourself when I can forgive myself, that's helping a lot of people also love if you want to call it God's love or light or just plain old good old love given freely in forgiveness of whatever you need to forgive. And you fill that space with love and light. It's a beautiful thing. And it's completely liberating. So I just wanted to share that and understand that. We're all on this journey together. We're on this earth, this life this experience. And we need more unity. We need more forgiveness and we need more love. Thank you. Welcome Dr. Merrill Nast two against the wind. It's so great to have you back on the show.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  3:35  
It's lovely to see you again. Pull. Dr. NASS

Dr. Paul  3:38  
is board certified in internal medicine. You have expertise in bioterrorism Gulf War Syndrome, vaccine safety vaccine mandates. You write amazing blogs on substack. Wow, once I found you you have a enormous wealth of information and knowledge. But I think today we're going to focus on what happened yesterday. Maybe you can give the viewers a little background into what led up to the fact that you spent a day being grilled by the Maine Medical Board yesterday.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  4:06  
Yes, so I had been a doctor with no complaints, no malpractice you know, I was flying high, feeling invulnerable. And then all of a sudden, in four months last year, between October and through December, January, I got four complaints from strangers to people who had never met me didn't know me and saw something I said on the internet decided it was misinformation and reported me to the board. A doctor I'd never met a midwife I'd never met who I had treated each of their patients one with hydroxychloroquine, one with ivermectin and they complained that I was using inappropriate medications. And then I had made a complaint to the board myself which they decided to turn into a complaint to get my license and that was I told them I that I had been forced to lie to a pharmacist about a diagnosis because the Medical Board and the pharmacy board had made it had frightened the pharmacists away from dispensing hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. So if you wrote a prescription for those drugs, the pharmacists had been instructed to ask you the reason. And if you said COVID, they shouldn't dispense it. But nobody had ever written that down and black and white as a rule of law and executive order anything else. It was all whispered. And so pharmacists, and doctors have been warned that these might be dangerous if given access doses. But if you write a prescription for the right dose, they're perfectly safe drugs. And that was the government fooled us and the FDA fooled us the FDA tried to make doctors and patients think that you couldn't prescribe hydroxychloroquine because they had issued and then withdrawn an emergency use authorization for it. What the FDA deliberately misconstrued was the fact that the EUA had nothing to do with any drug, traveling through drugstores, and doctors writing prescriptions and only related to some donated tablets that the federal government had put into the national strategic stockpile. And so it had no nothing whatsoever to do with doctors writing prescriptions. But doctors were made to think it did. And so they stopped writing the prescriptions and the pharmacist stopped dispensing. And patients were dying from COVID. So this was a disaster. And I did my best to bring it into the open, you know, I gave talks, wrote lots of articles about it. And about the malfeasance that was associated with this, I mean, fake fabricated articles in medical journals to try to stop the use of hydroxychloroquine. And other illegal activities were carried on to stop this and to keep the pandemic going. Anyway, as a result of this, I was at Target.

Dr. Paul  7:11  
Yeah, that whole history I lived it as well. I mean, here in Oregon, you could not write well, you could write it but most of the time, it would not be filled if you tried to write for those those drugs. And yet, you know, I grew up in Africa, and people who've practiced in Africa know that ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine have been used for decades, have an incredible safety record, right. And doctors, almost a, you might know this statistic better than I but we prescribed quote off label. In other words, that drug gets, gets approved for one use, but you once it's approved, you can use it for other uses, that makes sense.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  7:47  
And 20 to 40% of all prescriptions are for off label uses. Well, the staff at my board apparently didn't know that. So they were first trying to get me on off label prescribing. They subsequently dropped that charge. They had me on a lot of charges for misinformation, they subsequently read the First Amendment dropped all those charges. They they were gonna get me on my speech against the vaccine. But then they found out it was all accurate. They dropped those charges. So then they were left, they still wanted to you know, they'd already taken my license. They'd already directed me that I had to go see a neuropsychologist and get testing for cognitive and mental illness. And they didn't let that go.

Dr. Paul  8:34  
Wow. Can you back up a little bit. I forgotten that they emergency took your license?

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  8:39  
Yes, I was immediately suspended. The first time they heard about me officially, was on January 11. And they suspended me as an immediate danger to the public without a single patient complaint with no prior board actions with nothing because of misinformation.

Dr. Paul  8:57  
Wow. And so are you still without a license at this time?

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  9:02  
Yes. And so yesterday, they had the opportunity because we filed the motion, saying well, you've dropped most of the charges against her. How about, you know, dismissing this whole case? And they said no. And we said, How about dismissing the order to have a neuro psych evaluation? They said no. And they're basing their whole case now on the fact that, you know, I didn't get assigned informed consent for writing a prescription. Do you get assigned informed consent to write a prescription? I don't think so. I've never

Dr. Paul  9:35  
heard of that. So, so it's gonna boil down to they can just at will make a charge that you're mentally impaired or a substance user with no evidence. I mean,

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  9:50  
yes. Apparently in Maine, they think they can. And what the what the statute is in Maine is that the board does have the right to demand medical or psychological evaluation of a doctor at any time. So that is that we have a statute that says that. However, of course, it was assumed that they weren't going to be using that, right, and, you know, willy nilly. And the reason they had to order that exam was because they didn't have anything else to justify an immediate suspension. And they couldn't make an example of me, unless they did an immediate suspension. They couldn't the case had they not immediately suspended me. All of the records, the whole story would have been confidential. But they wanted it in the national news. I was in Newsweek, I was in the San Francisco Chronicle and the Miami Herald and every the hill, they all had articles about this terrible doctor who lost their license for spreading misinformation.

Dr. Paul  10:49  
Wow. Did they by chance, tell you that you had to use their person to do this? Yes. Mental health evaluation?

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  11:00  
Well, you know, the thing about it is they pretend that this is a real, you know, that they present the case, they discuss it, and then they vote. But the nine page letter about all the terrible things I had done was already written before they had the meeting. And the appointment with the neuropsychologist had already been made. So at the end of their meeting, they voted and they handed me the appointment and and said, bring $2,100 with you when you go on, you know, and this was February 1, att, supposedly have an appointment for February 1, that they had made on John before January 11. And these are all the charges against you. So literally, you know, the board members didn't know much about my case, they had been told by the Board staff, and there's three attorneys on the board stuff who should have known better? No, so my attorneys told me no, you don't do this, because it's their person that you already know what the answer is going to be. And we had to file a lawsuit because of that main statute, giving them the right, we filed a lawsuit, and then it was arranged between the attorneys that until, you know the lawsuit was resolved, they would not demand that I go to a neuropsychologist and pay for it myself.

Dr. Paul  12:19  
That was a good strategy. So I was able to watch a little bit of your trial yesterday in between patient visits, and oh, my gosh, I mean, I've been there, I've been in that hot seat, you are so calm and collected. And, and you know, they just everything that you your attorney, and the two of you were trying to put on the table, they would try to silence you and move on to all they had was this well, mental impairment and substance use and you're able to say, I mean, your answers were amazing. I know they didn't quite finish. So where does this go from here?

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  12:51  
Well, I have another date for an eight hour day on October 25. And then after that their next date for a hearing is the end of January, they decided to take three months. So I don't know why. I think they will roll over by then. And as far as I'm concerned, the only question is whether I'm going to get to sue them individually. For malfeasance. Obviously, these people are being paid members of the board and the board staff are paid by the state to conduct proper evaluations and they have one job and that is to keep the patients of Maine safe. And since there were no patient complaints are no allegations that I harmed anyone. This had nothing to do with what their sole mission is. And so I think it's important to challenge them individually and try to get some damn, my reputation was ruined. I had to close down my business. My patients have been without a doctor for nine months. And I think we should go after damages for that.

Dr. Paul  14:04  
We have a real problem with medical boards. What do you think is motivating medical boards to clearly target doctors like yourself who are trying to speak the truth about what's going on with the whole COVID thing? I mean, you have such expertise in bioterrorism, and and, you know, COVID and vaccines and mandates. What what's behind all this because you're not alone. There have been others in multiple states, others of us undergoing, you know, board attacks from the board that have no no patient complaints, they have no basis.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  14:45  
Okay, so you're asking me a really large question, which is basically what's going on in the world right now. And one of the many mechanics through which it can happen is the suppression of doctors, right? If you're going to try to basically take over the World using pandemics as a guise to do so, because we have emergency laws that can be pulled into play. And they can supersede our normal law and order. If you can designate a medical emergency, you know that medical emergencies are therefore the ideal means for people who want more power, control money, etc. More surveillance. Okay, so, in order to do that you need to gain control of the entire medical establishment. Now, you know, what we already know is that the kinds of personalities who go into these organizations, these nonprofit organizations like the American Board of Internal Medicine, the AMA, the Federation of State medical boards, if you get to the top of that organization, you earn about a million dollars a year, if you get to the top of the AMA, you're getting about $3 million a year, most doctors don't get the kind of money. So and how do they get it? They get it by essentially offering their services to pharmaceutical companies or other companies or foundations for services. And so, the Federation of State medical boards is a nonprofit, it can be sued. And the chairman of my medical board who slept through half the meeting yesterday, half the hearing, she ran for and what and one ad to become a member of the Board of Trustees of the Federation of State medical boards. Interesting, okay. And they presumably have a contract to push out this business about misinformation and speaking negatively about vaccines in public. So they since last summer, summer, a year ago, they have been telling their members of boards that it's their responsibility to go after doctors who use ivermectin hydroxychloroquine. You know, say anything negative about vaccines, spread misinformation and and to nonprofit organizations have sprung up. The question is who paid for this? One of them is called no license for disinformation. And its sole purpose is to take away the licenses of doctors like you and me who are trying to tell the truth and treat patients for COVID. Wow. Look, there's been a lot of money, a lot of thought a lot of time put into this. I think it cost many billions of dollars to put all the right chess pieces in place. The person who was the head of the AMA last year, making it making his money, as President, it was is a GP from South Carolina named Harmon, he was involved in pushing the anthrax vaccine mandates 20 years ago. So you see, we know who he is, we know that he made general in the National Guard as a flight surgeon, not as a pilot, you know, he made general because he got, you know, managed to punish so many people for refusing to take anthrax vaccine. So they got him in the AMA, you know, and they've got, you know, they've got these shills and these other organizations. And most of these organizations have foundations, and they can hide money coming in through the foundations. So anyway, that's the medical establishment now, in government. I think a lot of people were fooled, they were told initially, you know, they were told this is the science, you know, these drugs don't work, blah, blah, blah. Now, you can only do that if you control the major medical journals, and the major media, mainstream media. Well, the people who want more power and control gained control of all of those things they had to have at first. And so the message, you know, you It's only if you go to alternative media that you can find out about these drugs, even though there are over 300 studies on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine for COVID. There's about 100 studies on ivermectin. So the information is there, but it's you have to know where to look. You're not going to find it. Any of the usual places. Yeah.

Anyway, this is this is what happened. And I think people were told initially that these drugs were harmful and they believed it. And the NIH took over guidelines. NIH is not a guidelines agency. CDC is supposed to issue guidelines, not NIH. But I guess Fauci didn't trust anyone else to do it right. So that the NIH under Fauci his deputies took over they appointed a completely conflicted financially conflicted group of experts who would rubber stamp the guidelines? No ivermectin, no hydroxychloroquine remdesivir. vaccines. That's it. Anyway, that's those are the mechanisms by which it was done now who's doing it who put the money in? How is it all happening? The United States government admits on its own us gov.gov website, that it's already spent $3.95 trillion on the COVID. Response. Wow. 3.9 5 trillion. So if you want to know, where did the money come from? Unfortunately, it came from us.

Dr. Paul  20:35  
Wow. It's, it's highway robbery here. Wow. Well, I want to wish you the best in your ongoing battle and fight with the board, you should prevail. And that will be a message across the bow of medical boards to quit making things up and taking anonymous complaints that aren't patient complaints. Or getting good. We have a job on our hands to expose the truth. It feels like, you know, people like you who are writing really good content on substack. Is there. Is there other other sources you would recommend people go to for the truth? I mean, for the real information, the real science?

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  21:20  
Sure, um, so if you go to my substack, which is Merrill nast.substack.com, there are probably 20 or 30. Other sub stacks that I recommend. There are many websites, I mean, Mercola, he was knocked offline recently, but he's back, but you have to look for him. There are many others, you know, children's health defense, of course, is trying to produce as much honest, this they fact check everything very carefully. So there are, you know, many sites, and we don't all conspire with each other. You know, I don't talk to Bobby Kennedy and Joe Mercola. So we get our story straight the way the government is doing with other governments and with state governments, but you'll often find we draw the same conclusions. Yeah. And I would say just, you know, read broadly, it's, um, you know, I just happen to be lucky, I lucked out that I had the right background to understand, you know, where the COVID came from, how it might have been developed. You know, I knew about bioterrorism I already thought the anthrax vaccine mandates, so I had a lot of experience with medical law. And I knew what the FDA had to do what they didn't do with these vaccines that they were required to do. You know, I understood what was illegal because I'd already been through it before. And I don't know, I was just put on the planet at this time to be able to pick through a lot of this stuff. And I'm, I'm grateful for everybody's support, and, and my readership, and I'm grateful for you and children's health defense for helping to spread the word as to what's going on. We can fix this. I mean, this is a small number of people trying to gain enormous power over us. But there's 8 billion people who don't want it. We don't want to be slaves. We like our Constitution, our Bill of Rights. We want to keep them I mean, we'd like to start using them again. Yeah. And

Dr. Paul  23:20  
so with that thought in mind, it may be your closing thoughts on how do we resist the inevitable next pandemic?

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  23:30  
So, okay, so we've had, there are at least three that I think we're made in labs, so sorry, SARS, to the first COVID. I think Omicron, which didn't derive from any of the earlier variants also came from a lab. It might have been for good or bad, we don't know. And the monkey pox looks like it also was derived from a lab. So we've had three and right now basically, we're over all of them. They're not, they're killing very, very few people, very few people are getting very sick. And the reason for that is the biological warfare specialists don't know how anything any of these things are going to do in the real world, unless they test them in large populations, find out how they spread and find out how they mutate in a lab, you don't know what's going to be deadly or not. And so they've had really three duds the first one wasn't a complete dud, it killed a lot of people made a lot of people sick, but you know, now it's basically nothing, it's a flow and the other two were duds. I, the next one or the next to the next three are probably you know, likely to be duds again, plus, the other side is going to be very nervous about pushing out more lab grown organisms, because now we know what to look for. You know, if if they were grown up in a humanized mouse we're gonna that's the first thing we're looking for. Right if they have the human ace two receptor or if they have a fear and cleavage site If that, you know, that's so their options are limited. I think they're gonna go more for for this food, controlling food and trying to starve people out controlling oil and energy. I think that's the next thing. And I believe that they've caused a lot of people to be on their side using a fake narrative about climate change and the destruction of the natural world. So and the reason I believe that is because Fauci and Peter days, both use that narrative in their writings and in their speeches. So the way they've tried to frame this is the reason we're having pandemics is because people are living too close to nature, and people are caught and climate change is causing us to be closer to nature for some reason. And so it's all our fault. It's the fault of humans that we have pandemics. And if we had less humans, then the natural world could prosper. And so with the humans that are left now, where that's going, I don't know. But we've already had Ezekiel Emanuel, who the brother of Rahm Emanuel, who was the Chief of Staff of Obama. Rahm was, I think Mayor of Chicago, he ran he had been a congressman Zeke started out as a cancer doctor, but he became an ethical doctor, an ethicist. He pushed the mandates on colleges and on private healthcare businesses last year. That's been admitted. That's in my substack. Yesterday, there's two Washington Post articles about that. He is proud of having forced almost all the college students in America to have to get this dangerous vaccine. Anyway, Zeke published a paper saying that everybody should die, they should go for euthanasia at age 75. And not be a burden on the rest of the population. It's a very famous article. He wrote it about 10 years ago. Unfortunately, these people are you Genesis and self admitted. And we have to realize that the solutions they're providing us are not really solutions. It's just some crazy idea that they have, and they're trying to push it on the rest of the world. They got some very wealthy people backing them. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  27:25  
Well, I've been saying for a long time, people, we got to turn off the television, the mainstream media, because it's all complete, almost all propaganda, it and you've got to start looking for good sources of information. And if you're new to this, if you're watching going, what, then that's just listen to your heart and your gut. It's a signal, you need to get more information, and you have to go to good good sources. Dr. Merrill Nast, you are such a blessing to the planet to be here at this time, for such a time as this, stay strong. Folks, go read her substack. And I'll let you have the last word for our viewers.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  28:06  
You know, with everything falling apart, we can actually not using their terminology of build back better, but  we can build something that works for people, and not for corporations, not for the oligarchs, you know that this, unfortunately, the people who are doing this to us now have downgraded the education systems, downgraded our legal systems, our judiciary, our police, you know, downgraded the culture of business and how you take care of your employees, which is why nobody wants to go back to work anymore. All of us and our food supply, they filled it with chemicals, and, and our air and water. Well, we can now the I mean, it's a time of turmoil, but we can make the changes that we need. We weren't living and we haven't been living in a good situation. And this is going to be it. It's time to start. You don't comply with these mandates. You don't go along, you start learning how to garden, you start learning how to treat people, as equals with great respect. And, you know, what do our kids need to learn? Let's teach them that. You know, we know how to do this better. They've been trying to drag us down. Let's build ourselves up. And it turns out to be an opportunity in the end, although a painful one as we go through it.

Dr. Paul  29:34  
Oh, so well put. Thank you for that, folks. We have an incredible natural immune system, and you boost it by doing exactly what Dr. Nasser was talking about. It's clean, filtered water, it's healthy organic food, you know, and it's avoiding toxins that are around us everywhere, and really taking back control of our lives on a small scale, but then as smaller communities develop. We don't We have to be a part of this massive entity that's destroying our health.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  30:05  
That's right. A little exercise and happy thoughts, good thoughts. Don't let the fear get you down. That's what they're trying to do. They're trying to make you fearful. And that's what the whole media thing is about. And just face it, you know, face it, there are people who are trying to basically take over all the important structures of the world, but they're not going to succeed. And you know, unless we hand it to them, and we don't have to. Yeah. So you face that you face How bad can get? And then you get over it. You realize, okay, this is what I have to do. I got to fight them. Yeah, I got to build a better world and a better life. Thank you.

Dr. Paul  30:46  
Yeah. Thank you so much, Dr. NASS, viewers, please start looking for the best information out there. And you can start with Dr. Merrill nases substack It was a pleasure to have you on we're gonna have to do this again, you threw a lot at our viewers today. So we're gonna have to come back and revisit some in the future, all the best.

Dr. Meryl Nass, MD  31:05  
Great, thank you. Bye, bye. Bye bye.

Dr. Paul  31:14  
Welcome back to against the wind. Josh gets Gao it's such a privilege and honor to have you back. Thank you, thank you. Some of our viewers may not know but you have a PhD, you have training in both sociology and criminology, you're teaching right now, at the Hebrew University. They're in Israel actually coming to us from Israel, folks. We're going to cover the Israeli leak, what it means the CDC and the analysis or lack of analysis of bears, and then you're ready to present a deep dive into the Pfizer data, you are also a prolific researcher and writer. So I'm really looking forward to this interview?

Joshua Gertzkow  31:51  
Well, you know, it's been a while since we talked, the first time that I ever came on to talk with you was about this analysis that I had done that eventually was published in late September of 2021. This was basically my analysis of the various data using the CDC is own methodology that they use in order to detect safety signals. Okay. And one of the key things that they use the is called the P R R, okay. It's a proportional reporting ratio.

Dr. Paul  32:27  
Okay. Is that what you

Joshua Gertzkow  32:29  
see on the screen here, what you see on the screen here is something it's kind of similar, but it's basically is similar idea, the PRR is, you have a new vaccine, and you want to know is there you get all these reports to various but how do you know, you know, Okay, anybody can report anything? So how do you know? Well, you look, you say, Okay, well, what proportion of the reports are for myocarditis compared to another vaccine that we believe to be safe, like flu vaccine, for example? Okay. And if you see that there's a larger proportion reported for this symptom than in other vaccines, then it's a safety signal, and then you it should prompt investigation. Okay, if nothing else, you need to look at it, right. And so this is called a safety signal. And this is standard pharmacovigilance. It's like, you know, it's like the most basic thing. Go ahead. What were you saying?

Dr. Paul  33:27  
This looks like a powerful signal. And this was back in September 2021. Those numbers in red are? How many times more frequent, right? Like if it was two times that would be 200%.

Joshua Gertzkow  33:41  
II? Well, yeah, actually, that's right. And here, it's the method I'm using. And this, this table is a little bit different. But basically, because in the with the other method, you don't control for the number of vaccine doses. But since we know pretty much how much vaccine doses are given out, we can normalize by vaccine dose and get a more precise

Dr. Paul  34:02  
signal. Yeah. Okay. I see what you mean. It does depend on how many are given. But I've seen something recently where the total number of vaccines given COVID vaccines in the world now matches the total number of all other vaccines given or was it just the flu given?

Joshua Gertzkow  34:22  
I don't know. I didn't, I didn't hear that. I'd be very surprised by that. Just because maybe in the in the in one year or two years, but if you I mean, I don't know how far back that statement is, is for. But it may be it may be equal to every other vaccine that's given in the same year. It might very well be that I would believe. Okay. Anyway. So I so so so I said this to children's health defense, I said, Why aren't they why I could not make this go away. Right? You can't if the data is shouting from the data. So I said, Let's, hey, let's do a Freedom of Information Act request. Because because they had published in January of 2021. They have published a via sorry, by the way, my analysis was confirmed by a paper that was published totally independently and frontiers in public health in February of 2022. Where if you looked at both FERS and the European system and found basically the same thing, just these huge safety signals, he doesn't use that term here. But they're, they're there. They're all over what he's showing. So to get back to this January 2021, the date the CDC has this document where they say exactly what they're going to do and or not exactly, but basically spell out what they're going to do to analyze or monitor sorry, monitor bears for safety signals. Okay, they lay this out. And so we said, Well, okay, let's see this. You guys said, every week, you're going to be producing tables for based on fares. Let's see what you got. One thing, it took us a while, but eventually we got the answer from them. And what was the answer? Oh, no, sorry. We're not doing this. Okay. And I wrote a series of articles about this on my substack. Okay. This blog that I have, where basically the CC comes back and says, we don't we didn't do this. Talk to the FDA. And then Senator Johnson wrote a letter to the CDC saying, Hey, you got some splaining. To do, right? What what, how is it that you said you were going to do this data monitoring and you never did it? And then they came back? And they said, well, first they said, well, actually, we have been doing it. We did do that. And that came from John Sue, right? He's the head of the affairs team at the CDC. He said we weren't doing it. And then they came back a few weeks later, this was all through a reporter at at Epoch Times, who was kind of got them into a kind of dialogue about this. And then later they reported saying, no, actually, we didn't do it. But we started doing it. On March 23. Okay, that was the first time that they said they get from late March until until late July. They did some so many prs? Yes. 20. No, 2022 this year?

Dr. Paul  37:31  
Yeah. Oh, they're finally getting around to it

Joshua Gertzkow  37:33  
this year, finally getting around to it, which by the way, it turns out that and I'm going to this is going to be okay. That was March 23. was the day after the legal person at the legal team at sea. Children's Health defense are amazing. Okay. And they nudge them. They wrote, Hey, what's up with our FOIA requests on March 22, she sent that email to them and it just lo and behold, they started their their safety monitoring the day after, and there was another email right around that same time, maybe even the same day from another researcher about this. So anyway. So

Dr. Paul  38:15  
have you I think we should pivot to what the data actually show him, you've actually done a deep dive into this, and this is good stuff.

Joshua Gertzkow  38:22  
Are we talking about the Pfizer or

Dr. Paul  38:24  
the the Pfizer data?

Joshua Gertzkow  38:25  
Let me just take two more words about this. Okay. Yeah. Okay. One is the Turks. So they said talk to this. Talk to the FDA. By the way, they're not they said, we were doing some analysis from March to July of this year. They didn't do it. Or no, I'm sorry. They didn't tell they haven't sent it to us. We don't know we've asked for it. And they're not sharing it. They promised that they would give it also to the epic times. So the epic Times did a series of articles about this, but I want to show you something. Okay. So they said they were doing safety analysis from end of March to end of July 2022. Now, Albert venovenous has been tracking the deletions, the extent to which there are reports to veirs that are being deleted, okay, on a weekly basis. And lo and behold, what did he find? There's this huge uptick in deletions of various reports, right at the time when they said they were started their safety signal monitoring analysis. Right now, it could be a coincidence. Right? It could be a coincidence, but it's quite a coincidence. All right. Yeah, so yeah, you want to talk about the Pfizer stuff.

Dr. Paul  39:42  
Vaccine Injury is the biggest coincidence in the world. Yes, let's look at you've done a deep dive into the Pfizer data and I think it's worthy of going through and showing what you found because this is data that they obviously had there. Hands On since

Joshua Gertzkow  40:00  
the beginning. Right since the beginning, and okay, so just to make sure we're all on the same page here, um, the Pfizer data that you speak of is all of the clinical trial data and the documents that were submitted by Pfizer to the FDA, over the course of the regulatory process for eventually getting their vaccine approved. So it includes a period includes phase one, phase two, three, it will

Dr. Paul  40:41  
take us up to about the end of 2021. How far out does this data go? Do you think?

Joshua Gertzkow  40:47  
March, it goes out to march 13 2021. And then the reason that it goes out to march 13, is because that was the cutoff date, where they said, Okay, now we're going to submit our final materials and analyses to the FDA to get this thing finally approved, actually approved not just as a emergency youth authorization. Okay. So after some point and run your analysis, but it didn't matter, because the the the, the experiment ended long before that. Okay, that's what I'm going to show you first. All right, so we here we've heard that the placebo subjects, right, the people who didn't get the vaccine eventually got the actual vaccine, right? Because they said, well, it's not ethical, we see that it's working after the emergency use authorization. So it's not ethical, that withhold it from them. And so we're going to offer it to, okay, so that began on December 14, about three days after the emergency youth authorization. Okay. So basically what that means is that once once somebody is unblinded from the trial, they're no longer really a participant in the trial.

Dr. Paul  42:06  
Anything. So you're saying that happened started happening in December of 2020? Yes, December 2020. So folks, remember that you're nine months into this COVID epidemic, pandemic, whatever you will, and they're already starting to destroy the control group carry on.

Joshua Gertzkow  42:22  
Yeah, exactly. There was a NH they started on they enrolled the first subjects and gave them the first dose on July 27. Those were the first subject but you know, there's on there's a rolling enrollment, so people were being enrolled at different times all through the party. So now we can, we can look at sort of just get a sense of how quickly did this happen? This unblinding. Okay, and you can see you compare the vaccine group and the treatment group now. So if we just look at, well, what how, what was the average number of days that people were in the we're in this study before they were unblinded, what we see is that they, on average, they were there for 137 days on average, okay, which about four and a half months, but but we actually need to go back to December 14. And the reason we need to go back to December 14 is not just how long was it before you got unblinded. But on December 14, you know, what the one of the key things that study like this requires is randomization, you need to have random people randomly assigned to placebo and treatment group. But if you look at the age breakdown of the people that were being unblinded, okay. You okay, you see these two different age groups here, right, that 16 to 55 and 55 plus, so you can see that they pretty quickly started on blinding the older group. You know, they weren't on blinding them equally. Okay. So there was no random, they broke the randomization on the day that they started on blind. That's the key point, right. And once you break the randomization, all of your you can't make any comparisons because everybody that's hasn't been on blinded yet and presumably, is still in the study. You can't compare them because now you're suddenly comparing apples and oranges. Okay.

Dr. Paul  44:19  
So Josh, I got a question for you. You've you've looked at this data in detail, just based on this graph, keep the graph up just for a moment longer. The lines cross right around before January 4, which if this started December 14, that's six, eight weeks around that time. That would be would that not be when people were getting their second shot? And most of the side effects we knew started happening around that time. Or am I looking at that wrong? Maybe.

Joshua Gertzkow  44:50  
You're you're kind of right. I mean,

Dr. Paul  44:53  
like if I'm an adult, I'm an older person, and I get my second shot and they start to have problems and I'm convinced that I don't want to be a placebo anymore. Just give me the shot. You know, I'm getting worse. Just give me the shot.

Joshua Gertzkow  45:07  
No, no, no, they were so they were these people were in the in the, in the trial before that and then on then then beginning on December 14, they would get a phone call and saying you are in X group, and they were doing it for both the placebo and the treatment group. Okay, the unblinding

Dr. Paul  45:24  
wasn't patient initiated? No.

Joshua Gertzkow  45:27  
I mean, I think they had a choice. I think they were called up and then they were, they were probably given a choice, but it wasn't patient initiated. It was initiated by bio Entech. Or Pfizer, as part of this, they because they so you know, they want to get shots into people's arms. Right? They like he said, they want to erase the placebo group, right? Yeah. It looks like they accomplished it charitable, they want them to be protected. Let's say they want them to be protected, whatever the motivations are, I can't speak to the motivation. But when they start to unblind, and then once you've been unblinded, you get your first dose, usually within a week, okay. So if we look at this December 4 date, and we look at, you know, how long were people on average in the in this study until that it's, it's 97 days. Okay, so just over three months, so we can say that on average, like basically, this trial lasted for three months. Okay. That's basically what we can say. All right. Yeah. Which is, which is which is absurd?

Dr. Paul  46:32  
Yeah, this is the age old trick they've done for most vaccines, the follow up is minimal. Weeks, to months, sometimes days in the case of the hep B. And the other piece of it is they don't look at all health outcomes. They just look at a few narrow things. Anyway, carry on. This is fascinating.

Joshua Gertzkow  46:54  
Okay, so that this is just getting warmed up. Okay, this is getting warmed up, folks. This is getting warmed up. Okay. It's gonna get Okay. So let's take, okay, so a lot of people focus on adverse events, right, when they're looking at these data, you hear a lot about adverse events. I haven't done as much with that. But I want to bring your attention and I'll show I'll tell you why this is relevant in a minute. Okay. So so this guy, Gustavo, Rue, he was in the trial site in Argentina. Okay. Now, the the Argentina trial site was the largest trial site by far, they had about 20% of all of the trial subjects. We, you know, in the noggin numbering in the 1000s of subjects, okay, so they single handedly had the power to make or break this trial. Okay. And, and it's important to realize that these trials are outsourced it isn't Pfizer or bio Entech. That's running the trial. They, they hire a company that hires other companies to run the trials locally. Like Brooke Jackson worked for Vin Tavita. Right, the whistleblower that blew the whistle on all of the problems that those three sites that have been Tabia was managing. And it's important to realize that because these people that run the trials at this level, have a strong incentive to make sure that the outcomes turn out, okay? Because imagine you're running a business that is trying to make money running clinical trials, and you're the one throwing a monkey wrench in these drugs or devices or whatever, getting, you know, approved, that'd be the US really bad for business. And this guy who ran this trial site, the Argentina trial had as a company, he's the director of the company I trials. They'd have, you know, they make a lot of money on this stuff. Okay. So this guy, a Gousto guru. I've talked with him, he's amazing. So he was in that he was a trial subject and about right after he got a second dose. He was on the way home and attacks he feeling terrible, yada, yada, yada. He ended up in the hospital two days later, and he was diagnosed basically with pericarditis, right? Inflammation of the tissue surrounding the heart. He called up the trial site from the hospital. They by the way, they did a PCR test when he came to the hospital and he was negative. And nobody at the hospital said he had COVID. So they called him up. And they said that he called up the trials. I told them what happened and he has all of the records from all of this, okay? He's a lawyer, and he's subpoenaed all of this. And he can see that in their in his record, they write it down as like pneumonia. Basically, they had pneumonia. He never told them he had pneumonia. He told them what he had. They wrote down pneumonia. But now here's the here's the real trick. A couple of weeks later, it's written that the trial sponsor which was bioenergetic called the site and asked them to change his diagnosis from pneumonia to suspected COVID 19 suspected COVID-19 Even though his PCR test was negative, why would they do that? Okay, I'm going to tell you why they would do. Because that, okay, that's not the right. Because there was a in the in the trial protocol, if you were counted if your adverse event or whatever happened to you was counted as being something similar to the efficacy endpoint, meaning if it was considered to be some COVID-19, or suspected COVID-19. You were not to be counted as an adverse event. So by we kept re categorizing people as suspected COVID-19, they could just completely sweep their adverse event under the carpet.

Dr. Paul  51:03  
That could probably also be counted as a Unvanquished, because you had to be 14 days post second dose, yes, to be fully vaccinated. I

Joshua Gertzkow  51:14  
mean, if he had gotten it, they probably would have you know, so this will, they do? Okay, in the final, they do have sub analysis in their reports and in their publications of any COVID-19 from dose one from the day of dose one. However, they also have another thing in their protocol saying, if the if the adverse event within the first week of each dose, if the adverse event is considered to be related to reactogenicity from the vaccine, okay, then you didn't have to follow the protocol of having the person get a COVID test. So if you got COVID, right, after you got the first dose, and you call them up, they can say, Oh, don't worry, take it and take some aspirin, you'll feel better or take some Tylenol, and they wouldn't have to follow the other part of the protocol saying if somebody calls up with some symptoms, they have a list of symptoms, you need to make sure they get a tab. Okay, so there's always there's all kinds of loopholes here for them to be extremely sneaky, right? And now, but he couldn't pop but but we would have to assume if they're if they're trying to tweak the results in favor of the vaccine, they would need to know who was vaccinated and who wasn't, or at least to have some indication. Okay. And so the question is, what was the trial? double blind? And the answer is no, the Pfizer trial was not double, but it was never billed as being double blind. It was billed as being what's called observer blinded, and you can go through the protocols and other things to kind of glean what this looked like. But here's a summary slide, saying kind of lists who was blinded and who was unblinded in the study. And they basically have two excuses for unblinding people who would normally be blind. One is, if you were in charge of administering the vaccine, you knew who was getting the who was getting the real vaccine and who wasn't? Because the real vaccine was this ultra cold, you know, special new technology, they required all this special preparation. So you would know, presumably, you wouldn't share that information with the person being given the vaccinate vaccine, but Oh, well. And the second excuse they have is, well, we we needed to do the analysis while we were running this study, so we had to have some people at the you know, at the upper levels, who knew who was getting vaccinated and who wasn't. So they could do those those efficacy analysis?

Dr. Paul  53:50  
Yeah. It doesn't look like it's just upper level, you've got Study Manager and clinical research associate clinicians reviewing. I mean, that's everybody.

Joshua Gertzkow  54:00  
They have the hearing, they have their excuse, and then they have what this you know, I call this the Qi, the Swiss cheese method of blinding, right? It's so totally porous. It's like what how do you distinguish between a study coordinator and his study manager like, what is that he does the title? Yep, the most, one of the most important, unblinded personnel here is the study level, the medical monitor for adverse events, they had somebody monitoring adverse event reports who was not blinded. Okay, and that justification that they gave for this was we're worried about vaccine dependent enhancement, right, where you get the vaccine and makes the disease worse if you actually catch So presumably, this person was supposed to be scouring through the adverse events reports to see possible cases of this ad E. Right. And, or, you know, antibody dependent enhancement or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. You know, first For safety, right?

Dr. Paul  55:01  
So despite all of this unblinding that therefore meant that Pfizer had total ability to basically manipulate this however they wanted.

Joshua Gertzkow  55:11  
Yes. And I have to wonder, I have to wonder if this medical monitor was the person that called the Argentina site and ask them to change a Gousto ruse Adverse Event Report, from pneumonia to suspected COVID-19. If you had one of nine different symptoms, okay, you called up the site, they said, if you're not feeling well call up the site. And if you reported one of nine, what they refer to as COVID related symptoms, they would tell you go have a PCR test, or even if you had another symptom, they might tell you go have a PCR test. Okay. And if you had a positive PCR and reported one of those nine symptoms, then you would be considered you should have been considered a COVID. Case. Okay, here's a list of those symptoms, fever, cough, shortness of breath.

Dr. Paul  56:05  
I would think the problem you've seen here, let me I would think a problem with that is that those who got the vaccine are going to have symptoms.

Joshua Gertzkow  56:14  
Well, they might have symptoms, and also if they called up in the first week after they got the dose and said, I have one of these symptoms, that the investigator could say, oh, don't worry about it. It's just from the vaccine, they didn't have to go make them go and get a PCR test. But also, this is a limited list of symptoms, we know that COVID can present in other ways, right? We have all of these PCR test results, and we know who was counted as a case and who wasn't counted as a case. And we can look across the placebo arm and the vaccine arm, and we can look at positive tests and when they occurred, okay, and what percentage of them were counted as a COVID case and what percentage weren't. And what you can see if you look at the policy, I know there's a lot of data, let me just focus your mind you're on the placebo side, you say what percentage were not counted as cases, these are positive PCR tests, okay, that are driven by symptoms, I call them with a symptom except for the dose to visit where everybody got tested it those two. So if I call them with a center beef between doses wanting to only 24% of the people in the placebo group were not counted as a COVID. Case, then I go over to the vaccine side and say that 43% of the vaccine, people who did the same thing, were not counted as a COVID. Case, oh, my go down it every step of the way. Every step of the way, the only difference. And you see the every point, you're significantly less likely to be counted as a COVID case, if you were in the vaccine group, I mean,

Dr. Paul  57:57  
right to the one to six days after the second dose for the treatment group. percent not counted as cases 100% compared to zero, you're working up at this high level of digging into data that's dripping out one month at a time, right? This is sort of yeah, this is a huge project of basically unraveling, you've got enough to know that something is very wrong.

Joshua Gertzkow  58:22  
I've got enough to say that something looks very, very fishy.

Dr. Paul  58:26  
What's the take home for for now, I know that it can change because you're going to get more information, more data,

Joshua Gertzkow  58:32  
the take home for now is that there is a very suspicious anomaly. Okay. And then anomaly is that there are a bunch of people in the trial, that should have been counted as a COVID case, where they were trying to decide what the efficacy or calculate the efficacy of this vaccine, they should have been counted in that analysis. And they weren't. That's number one. Number two, you were much, you're much less likely to be counted in the analysis when you should have been if you were in the group that got the vaccine, and not the placebo, okay. So it basically means that they're tilting the results, or it looks like they're tilting the results of the trial in favor of higher efficacy for the vaccine. Because if they if they had more of the people in the treatment group, who would have ended up as quote counted as COVID cases that would drive down the efficacy calculation of the vaccine. So I had a lot of indications that there was unblinding that many people were known who if they were in the placebo group or not. So it opens up enormous opportunities for fiddling with the data and and they have a lot of motivation to

Dr. Paul  59:55  
do so. Yep. Perfect. I think I think you nailed it. That's what I got from it as well, but I couldn't articulate it quite that clearly. I'm gonna let you have the final word, we're gonna have to wrap it up. What's your final message to people that this time? What should people be aware of?

Joshua Gertzkow  1:00:14  
What should people be aware of? I think people need to be aware of their own power. It can be it can feel very powerless to be in a situation like this. And people say, Well, what can I do? I don't know how to analyze this data. I don't know how to do this, but everybody has. But you know, we're a team. And in a team, it's a team effort and a team, everybody does something different. We're not all you know, quarterbacks or whatever, everybody plays their role. So you need to find your strength. Think about what you're good at. And and just do something, do something. And don't just let them take your power away from

Dr. Paul  1:00:51  
Wow, thank you for that message. Because you're so right. I can't do what you do. I don't have that. I don't know technical analysis skill. I'm not that organized. A lot of people can't do what we're doing, which is talking out loud, and just being bold in that way. But you know, I wasn't the first one to walk through stores without a mask. Because here in Oregon, you boy, you couldn't go into a store, basically. But some people were they were bold. And yeah, if you can do that, you can be bold enough to talk to your neighbor or your loved one. And yes, yeah,

Joshua Gertzkow  1:01:26  
I'm terrible at that. I'm terrible at confrontation. Right? Yeah. You know, but there are people who are really good at it. So my feeling is, well, I'm going to get getting the information and analyzing stuff. So I maybe I can give, you know, if I can give people information that they can share with others, then, you know, you know, we're working as a team.

Dr. Paul  1:01:45  
You are good at it. Thank you so much for coming back on the show. Thank you for having me. We'll get you back when you have your next level of analysis. Thank you

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