​Dr. Paul  0:35  
Welcome to with the wind science revealed. My guest today is none other than Steve Juncus. He's my attorney suing the Oregon Medical Board for their wrongful termination of my license. We cover his lawsuit against medical mandates here in Oregon, a suit against Governor Kate Brown, we have a deep discussion on public health, what's going on and what to do. And then Didi covers his journey with the vaccine issue as a grandpa, as a family, man, and how this has affected his family. Enjoy the show.

Back to you, Paul, coming to you from the heart. My thought today, my topic is self care. When we're going through hard times, and my gosh, who hasn't these past three, three years. If you're really taken down to your knees, and I experienced that, with the loss of my license, and a whole lot of other things that were happening at the same time, I was beyond my own personal limit. And I wasn't useful, really, I wasn't able to really give to anybody, I was so shattered. And you don't have to let yourself get to that point. But if you're feeling really overwhelmed, you're feeling really maxed out. It's time to reach out and really get the care that you need. Because it's when we take care of ourselves, I think about the message on the airplane about the oxygen mask and they're saying put your own mask on first, then you are available to take care of your child, for example. Well, it's no different in life when we are taken down to our knees. We need to take care of ourselves. And it's not selfish to do that. It's actually the most loving and caring thing we can do. Because when we're filled with love, we're there to fill up others. Welcome, Steve joncas What an honor it is to have you back on our show with the wind.

Stephen Joncus  2:42  
Good morning, Dr. Thomas. It's great to be here. And you're actually one of my heroes, so pleased to represent you.

Dr. Paul  2:50  
Thank you so much. You are one of mine. I dealt with attorneys. During my career as a pediatrician, I was an expert witness for child abuse cases.

Stephen Joncus  2:58  
And I recall

Dr. Paul  3:01  
going up elevators with sometimes there'd be three or four attorneys and they would often be on opposing sides of this case that I was going to go to and they're just chatting like good old buddies like they're on the golf course. And then you get in the courtroom, man and you put on your other hat. I always just found that interesting. But I find you to be one of the most ethical attorneys I've ever run into because your loyalty is just to the cause and to your client. I don't I just don't see you playing games with this stuff.

Stephen Joncus  3:31  
I've never been a game player. I was hated game playing. And I frankly I have trouble doing what opposing counsel some facts because I'm not a game player and a lot of them banter is did you see attorneys do gameplay? Yeah.

Dr. Paul  3:48  
That's how it felt to me. I was actually recommended by a judge once I could see they were just doing the nonsense objection and all that stuff. And I'm smiling. The judge was Dr. Thomas, this is serious business. You need to take this seriously. Oh, yes, sir. Anyway, you have a very unique background chemical engineer. 15 year career with Rockwell International, you manage the shuttle mission simulator that you were working with NASA's finest Space Shuttle seven years 50 shuttle flights, then you begin your legal career in 1996. With this focus on intellectual property and civil rights, I am just so thankful that I found you because I couldn't find folks if you don't know this fact, I could not find a single attorney in Oregon to represent me against the Oregon medical board who were after me in really gnarly ways, shall we say? But just to give a little background of some of the things you've done. I know you are involved with passing a ban the jab resolution. Can you tell us more about that? That was fairly recent may it may 2023.

Stephen Joncus  4:50  
Yes, I ran across this Dr. Sands seller in Florida who had written this ban the jab resolution My COVID vaccine as he was had drafted a proposed ban or a resolution for other counties to follow so he has a number of counties in Florida that have passed this resolution. I think the state of Idaho Republican Party about party in the state of Idaho was passed the resolution and so I brought it forward to the Clackamas County P committee and asked them they have already Clackamas County to pass this resolution. And then they did. I think it has gone nowhere and in Clackamas County, they basically in orders of understand, but I think it's it helps spread the word about how terrible the COVID vaccines are. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  5:49  
So passing that ban by one party doesn't turn it into law yet, what would need to happen to actually, for example, have the residents of Clackamas County exempt from mandates, because I guess that's the goal. We want to get rid of mandates.

Stephen Joncus  6:05  
The goal was to outlaw the vaccine, the resolution was to outlaw on the vaccine. So the commissioners, Clackamas County Commissioners would have to pass a statute that would outlaw the vaccines. The ban also calls for the sheriff to seize all the vaccines and in Clackamas County doesn't specifically address mandates. And the problem with mandates is, say you they're banned, but your employers to hire. So you're not immune from that, because of this resolution.

Dr. Paul  6:37  
But I have heard that sheriffs have the power to operate in that way independently. Is that true?

Stephen Joncus  6:43  
Yeah, sheriffs have special power under the Constitution for the highest law enforcement officer being a county in the state. They're the only ones that can arrest the governor, for example, I'm not an expert on how that works. That's criminal law that I've never dealt into. But they have vast, unused power. And I hope to see a revolution in every grocery store chain.

Dr. Paul  7:09  
It's interesting and good to know that there might be one arm of law enforcement that could actually stand for the Constitution of the United States. Yeah. Yeah. Back to Oregon, you have a vaccine mandate case with our former governor, Governor Brown, right? What's the update on

Stephen Joncus  7:27  
that one? I assumed Governor Brown to stop the mandate that she imposed and lost in the district court who was dismissed. I have a perfect record. Now, of all my cases being dismissed,

Dr. Paul  7:42  
must be doing something right.

Stephen Joncus  7:45  
Down to the ninth circuit, the briefing is complete. And or argument is coming up on September 14 in Seattle. Well, you're gonna be busy here at town by person or who also be live streaming on the live circuit, a website.

Dr. Paul  8:01  
That's fantastic. Maybe you can provide that link for us, and we'll provide it for people. I think getting rid of vaccine mandates would be the first step to getting rid of this tyranny of forcing people to take dangerous products. It just has to stop. Let's pivot to our case. I honestly depend on you for the legal aspects of this. But for folks who might be new to my story 2019 I published an article it was the large vaccination vac study of data from my practice that showed vaccinated patients were faring far worse in all health outcomes than the unvaccinated. And a few days after that was available online. I got an emergency suspension of my medical license I was a threat to public health was their rationale. And basically, they ended up taking my license illegally. And I'll let you take it from there because you were the only person I could find in the state of Oregon willing to help me fight the

Stephen Joncus  8:58  
medical board. It was interesting when I first brought up your case, because so many others were critical of Kohler vaccines, but they see they're not anti vaxxers. They're, they're now talking about other vaccines. But those same people now that we've learned so much about how bad that go with vaccines are, they have looked into childhood vaccines and are now anti vaxxers which is terrific. And so, for example, Dr. Gould I talked to Dr. Asa Tochka, Dr. Gold a lot. And she told me that I'm not sure I'm on board with that. Maybe she is now but so

Dr. Paul  9:38  
you're talking about Simone gold of the long goal. I forget that she FLCC

Stephen Joncus  9:44  
emeritus from my doctors

Dr. Paul  9:46  
that she's frontline. That's right, America's frontline doctors.

Stephen Joncus  9:49  
And anyway, but then I read your book. Then I started thinking about what the Board did and it just it made no sense to me that the you You have a duty to your patients was being told by the board who had no duty to your patients on what you can tell your patients. And that just fundamentally wrong. They abused the system. They sent out charges that were false in order to smear you, they intentionally tried to smear you they are they're trying to intimidate every pediatrician in Oregon to march to their orders on childhood vaccines. And that is the it's hard to find a a better example of a tyrannical organization than the Oregon medical board. They are under kind of now their defense to the lawsuit that i We filed is that they're absolutely I mean, you cannot see face. And they want that point. You the district court, or they are just like a judge sitting on the bench. And folks out there understand that if you're in a lawsuit and you lose a lawsuit, you can't sue the judge. Because you lost the loss, you can appeal his decision, but you can't sue him personally. That's what absolutely is. And there's the judge made law, that these boards that control professions like nursing, and gambling and doctors, all sorts of other medical professions are just like judges, they judge them by their own profession. And they reached decisions, suspending licenses and things like that. And you don't want to judge these sued a lot of being sued at all, if He suspends a license for some malfeasance fine doctor, but they've they because they have no there's no control over them. They are not accountable to the public, they've gone out of control. And that judge made law that they are immune, the judges or the members of the border are immune to searing needs to be overturned. Because you can't have a tyrannical organization like this. That is not responsive. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  12:17  
yeah. That accountable to no one aspect of medical boards is truly something that once they decide they're going to target an individual as they had for me, and they've done this to so many other doctors. It's not over medical malpractice or shady character issues. I mean, boards 3040 years ago, primarily, we're going after doctors who are working intoxicated doctors who were sexually abusing their patients under anesthesia, it was that sort of egregious behavior that needed to be controlled, of course, for the benefit of the public. Now, it's just morphed into, you have to do things our way or else censorship, silencing. And really, they play this game of standard of care. So if you're not practicing standard of care, then you are in violation of medical board policies. But they've taken that to an extreme that makes no sense because you would have no innovation ever.

Stephen Joncus  13:14  
If you can't provide

Dr. Paul  13:17  
better ways to do things, which was exactly what my data showed. It was like folks, and actually that data was at their request. That's the most incredible thing about this. So which we're really fighting them on federal constitutional law, aren't we?

Stephen Joncus  13:35  
Yeah. Are you have a free speech, right? We're in federal court. We serve Federal Claims for violation of free speech and for violation of your due process on a fortunately, they summarily suspended you they violated their own laws in doing that. So they are outside their authority, which is one reason they should be held liable here because they may only have the authority granted to them by the legislature. And when they suspended you on an emergency basis without filing simultaneously filing a complaint, or the law requires that they simultaneously filed a complaint and they did not do that for another four or five months circle. That's the or at the outside their authority in there for judge made law. It says that's that is a time that medical boards can be sued. Also, it's not just the board members, if we sue the individual investigators and investigators under even the judge rate law do not get absolutely but the district of Oregon gay, the investigators actually wish is contrary to ninth circuit precedent. So they are pretty vulnerable on appeal. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  14:59  
the whole costs cept that somebody can be completely above the law, absolute immunity, you can do whatever you want, you can destroy. You can fabricate things, or you can basically break the law yourself and be immune. It just doesn't even make sense.

Stephen Joncus  15:13  
It's all American. And it's there's a lot of things like that go on right now with the journey that's taking over our world. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  15:23  
So to pivot from my specific case, I've just been shocked with the COVID. These few years, we've experienced how much power public health authorities have to give vaccine mandates for something that's not even a vaccine, something that's clearly now known to be harmful, and yet they just carry on. What do we do legally to maybe change that power structure, it seems very imbalanced to me.

Stephen Joncus  15:49  
So I think probably a long battle of continuing to hammer away my case on the vaccine mandate in Oregon is one of them. And then I think as time goes on the walls, house, a car is a both is starting to crumble. It's really a public perception and a public knowledge issue. The public has become more and more aware. And when that happens, there'll be a clamoring for a change. There are a lot of attorneys across the country who are attacking this problem in multiple ways. Not meeting with a whole lot of success yet, except in the case of religious exemptions. Those cases have been pretty successful where employer refused to give a religious exemption and just fired the employee or gave them a religious exemption. And so we can accommodate you. So we're firing you anyway. Those kinds of cases are the ones that are winning the most. But this will become, I believe, much, much bigger 1000s time of the year event of tobacco litigation. So sting products, liability, prep, tobacco litigation, rocked the country and rocked the industry. And there were lawsuits everywhere. Everyone was waiting on the class that this will turn into that. Because Pfizer was Devin and lager were fraudulent. They knew what they're doing as willful abuse. They knew that these were bad drugs when they put them out. A very interesting thing that I learned not long ago is that these are really this is really a DoD program. Department of Defense, which is shocking. In the intelligence branches of our government. We're leading it, not the health branches of our government. And Brooke Jackson sued in a False Claims Act, Pfizer behalf of the government for defrauding the governor. And he was amazing. The response you learned a lot from the shots. Pfizer said all we had was a manufacturing contract from the Department of Defense. We didn't have to test for see where

we didn't have to it wasn't in the contract. Wow, government came in and said the same thing. They couldn't have defrauded us because they were required to test. They weren't required to give us any efficacy or safety data. So all you've heard about all this testing that was done was just our rooms. He was a fraud, the entire effect. And Pfizer, one of our use case was dismissed and is now on appeal.

Dr. Paul  18:46  
So Pfizer, Maderna our government, they're in cahoots. They're working together with this program. How are they able to roll this out to the entire world?

Stephen Joncus  18:56  
I'm not a psychologist. I bet we have

Dr. Paul  19:02  
mass what's the term mass psychosis that term? Out up? Yes.

Stephen Joncus  19:05  
I think that's exactly what's going on. They it was a propaganda works. Yeah. Being there was a massive propaganda campaign. They spent billions trying to persuade you how dangerous COVID was, and the thing to do the only thing to do was a vaccine. Yeah, they spent billions to just terrified by tending to agree with suggestions that the images we saw on TV were all we're all made up. They were set up by the Chinese. Then there were set up in Italy. All these people dying in the streets to stare us today. Yeah. It's just not an epidemic of Milan. So because people were scared they can fly. Yeah. And there was all sorts of games played You to be a good citizen, you have to take your COVID. To prevent Chile, Grandma, you have the COVID base, right? All these mind tricks that persuaded people to take the vaccine, the COVID vaccine, that was basically a bio weapon that we're left with,

Dr. Paul  20:19  
perhaps more than half the population in the United States still convinced that the right thing to do is to listen to the authorities to keep getting your boosters, maybe it's not quite half that are going to get more boosters, people are waking up. But I'm so shocked with the my own profession, doctors, how few seem to be aware of what's actually going on. So they too at appears have fallen prey to the propaganda hot think about our public health. There's always a doctor in charge of public health. And they're running this narrative to the population here in Oregon. My God, it's just constant still get your boosters, they managed to put the COVID Jab on the back childhood vaccine schedule. Is it just we have to have a ground rising of the population versus how do we change the minds of the professionals who should know better? I would think so. That's a hard question.

Stephen Joncus  21:19  
I mean, his highest is mind boggling. There what's happening? It is because it's not yet in our human brain that is tribal. And that once it goes in, once someone goes into direction, they'll stay with the tribe and not change their people. Doctors can be intimidated by their corporate bosses, who set a policy and they have to follow that policy or lose their job. And so that's a huge incentive to just rationalize why what you're doing is okay. Again, I this is a lot of psychology. I'm not an expert. There are few people like you and like Sivan, gold, for example, who refuse and fewer Cory Doctorow Macola and Dr. Cole and Idaho who generally were in the head, how do they relate independent? Dr. Merrick, they're independent doctors not controlled by by big medical systems, at least they had associations, but the big medical systems didn't have a leverage over them. And they also work with doctors who saw what was behind the herd. saw the wizard behind the curtain and getting by it. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  22:39  
I thought that was profound when you said we're tribal. I think that's been the most shocking for me. I was raised by missionary parents very liberal. I was a lifelong Democrat just because of my upbringing. And then when I saw an entire party that used to stand for the little guy that used to stand for everybody's rights, those who are least able to defend themselves, actually choose the side of Big Pharma on the vaccine program that was clearly harming the little guys, everybody, actually. And I guess it's tribal AI is, but it's, it doesn't make sense other than this massive propaganda, as you said,

Stephen Joncus  23:16  
and there's really lots of parallels to 1930s. Germany, one of the things I like is if you ever wondered whether you would have opposed the Nazis, if you lived in 1930s, Germany, if you didn't oppose the COVID vaccines, you would have gone along with the program with the Nazis. And you have been you would have in some of you would have been some of these talks now. We're who our audience are, we're gonna have doozy acid Nasus so it's still inexplicable to me how the humans can do that. But it obviously happened. 1930s And as we're seeing that happen again, yeah. And it's worse now, because this was really George Orwell's 1984. Coming to life coming true. We are in that transition period between free free people. And the totalitarian nightmare of was depicted in 1984. Big brother in full control of us, that's that that is possibly not far away, and who knows not gone past the point of no return.

Dr. Paul  24:32  
Okay, so with that horrible thought, you've given this a lot of thought clearly. What do you think is the best way forward for Oregon and for the country? You could go to the world if you like, but let's start local and expand your best case scenario of how we get out of this Orwellian 1984 nightmare.

Stephen Joncus  24:53  
That's theater starts with people, individuals in your circle, talking to them trying I persuade them showing that habit is paying people waking people up, to not comply and to resist every opportunity. Because we're valence and the Mr. Global I like that term for who it is it's trying to run the world Mr. Global. Catherine. Austin Fitz. That's her job for who's trying to run the world is Mr. Glow. Mr. Global, there's a few people relative to the population. We're more powerful than they are except that we're not all marching in the same direction. So it's a matter of from the bottom up then is there's all sorts of avenues for that was a political Avenue here in Clackamas County. I became a PCP PVC committee person for the first time in 2020. And there are so many news PCPs in Clackamas County that were awake, that we completely voted out, the old leadership of the Republican Party in Clackamas County.

Dr. Paul  25:57  
Interesting. Tell me what a PCP is

Stephen Joncus  26:00  
a precinct committee person. So that is ground level person who, in the Republican Party, the same thing on the Democrat party, they vote for the leadership in our county, and then some of the GCPs we don't delegates to the convention or again, and then some of the PCPs and the applicant of action, or, again, our delegates to the national convention for public part. So it's, and there's what's called the PCP pyre, it was jammed up by someone in Arizona, I forget his name. The idea is to change your Republican Party is from the bottom up to get rid of the new the party and the rhinos who have gone along with the impairment of our natural lens. The A lot of this dates back to the Patriot Act. What the government can do now is date but nice back to the Patriot Act, which was passed by both parties study was pushed by the Republican Party were led that allows our diligence agencies to basically a science and they violated that. And now we're actually in a what's called, I think, fifth generation warfare. The United States government is in a war with its own view. It's a war over your mind. Or Malala talks about this a lot. And and as an actor, most certainly Facts The Colbert because COVID was a propaganda campaign can pay for your mind swayed you have things that that were not true, persuade you to obey them. And the thing we cannot do is obey who we have to resist the no one ever comply their way out of maturity. And the only way out of maturity is to knock the client. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  28:01  
that takes you right back to the Boston Tea Party and the founding of this country, doesn't it? Yep. We seem to have forgotten all the sacrifices made through the centuries now for this country's freedom, and we're watching it potentially evaporate in a very

Stephen Joncus  28:19  
fast, short period of time.

Dr. Paul  28:23  
So I'm very nonpartisan at this point. I just want freedom. I want everybody to have equal opportunity and this country to get back to those roots, not a race route, not none of that just total freedom as it was idealistically written into our Constitution. Granted, some people say those people have owned slaves and yeah, I'm not trying to go there. We can do better when we know better and we should certainly should know better by now. How do we get away from this? You said it we're being pitted against one another so that the those in power can carry on with their agenda while we're busy fighting each other Democrats and Republicans and racial things and sexual orientation things and on we've got all these things.

Stephen Joncus  29:11  
All those things are being instigated by Mr. Flow. That's not the current talk about race. I'm transgender. That's not coming from the population. Those are things that have been so to buy Mr. Globe, to divide us to destroy the nuclear family so that we will become dependent on them. These are all things that lead to their increased wealth and power. Yeah. So it's, it's not that we should stop Are you or their neighbor across the street? Why are we better and about this? Yes. Why is Mr. Global and the cult that controls this country? Why are they how do we stop that that See issue does they? The our country is now in the hands of a cult. I

Dr. Paul  30:08  
think I maybe figured out what you were trying to say about getting involved and resisting. So if Republicans Democrats are like, who want to stand for the ability to have the freedoms you've become accustomed to, within our own parties, we get in there at the grassroots. And we start putting people who are thinking clearly in, in the infrastructure, so that we develop, hopefully, in the political system, some common sense and some wisdom, and then to resist, but, folks, pretty soon you're gonna get some real personal back and forth between Steve and the Hoover who's going to take over the last part of this interview. So don't leave this discussion. It's going to be fascinating. We're going to hold your feet to the fire, Steve. But before I exit, I want to give you a chance to maybe wrap it up. We've touched on a lot of grand, huge issues. What's the most important thing you want our listeners to be aware of?

Stephen Joncus  31:05  
I guess, it's you have to resist and to inform yourself, but resistance you have to resist to stop the security stick, you know, as you cannot comply. Yeah. And for it, it's become a partisan issue, obviously. And that's part of I think, and that's because of the tribalism, Democrats, Democrats, Republicans, Republicans, look at the progressives that are out there leading like Naomi will read what she asked us your progressive. Read daily, well, she was acquitted in campaign advisor, and a Trump hater.

Read Sasha stone, listen to Sasha stones substance at your reverses. She was a leftist and a Trump hater until 2020. And she discovered that she has been lied to by the people.

And she was so she has very interesting, insightful. So I guess, besides resisting, it's important to to find places that get you information that that is revealed. And the places the Sasha stone by I've done been Josie to Sasha stone light now and Wolf, then there's this website called conservative treehouse.com, is also called the last refuge and is an anonymous guy there who runs that website, who is on top of and is 100%, almost 100% correctly got everything about the politics of the situation is very revealing, as to what's going on in with even Republicans in Congress, I would recommend those three sources of information. Two of them are from former progress, or I think neither we will still call themselves progressive folks who are progressive, even and conservatives should listen to you should look at what Naomi Wolf and Sasha stoners you because I think they're variants. Yeah. And I think

Dr. Paul  33:19  
when you get down to the real truth of the matter on whatever issue, it might be, it will resonate, as, but you have to take your blinders off in my in my world, and you've joined me when it comes to the lawsuits, we're doing the vaccine world, I think one of the public figures who's speaking most clearly about what's actually going on as RFK Jr. is and to his absolute detriment as far as a career as a politician, that's such a hot topic. It's almost like, you've got to be insane, to go there. But he just speaks the truth. And it resonates, if you'll listen carefully to what he as an attorney, he's an attorney in the environmental world. I think he just stumbled on the fact that oh, my gosh, vaccines are one of the biggest environmental threats to young immune systems. And so it just fit with his environmental work. So keep your minds open, folks. And yeah, Steve, I want to thank you so much for being willing to take on the legal work that is needed, for me personally, but for our country and for freedom, that you are truly one of my heroes. And now we're going to have some fun. I'm going to bring on DD Hoover and she's going to get into your heart a little bit.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  34:33  
Okay. Hi, Steve. Thanks for joining me.

Stephen Joncus  34:38  
Hi didi.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  34:39  
So we obviously know each other because of Dr. Paul and what you're doing for us right and I want to first of all I want to thank you for that. So getting when I'm when you're working with somebody like we are I'll I just see like Doc said how great of a lawyer you are and how hard you work for what you believe in And but you're also a husband, a dad and a grandpa of what, just a few days now?

Stephen Joncus  35:07  
Yeah, August 3, and I was born in the Chicago area.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  35:12  
Oh, Chicago area. Okay. So my question is, I'm going to dig in and find out just a little more, personally, about you and how who you are has has been affected by what you're going through right now. So what were your experiences? Prior to working with Dr. Paul, prior to COVID, and mandates and so forth? What were your experiences or knowledge of vaccines?

Stephen Joncus  35:37  
Oh, I assume vaccines were a bit. I had no knowledge that that there is a risk with vaccines, and never looked into them never had a reason question them never had a reason to question what kind of vice doctors gave up a little bit of needling there where chiropractors are much better at resolving natural things that happen to your body and doctors are really so good at giving you advice on health issues. They're really good at, in general, you're really good at fixing broken bones. These catastrophic injuries require emergency keeping your

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  36:19  
child alive, keeping kids alive, curing diseases, different things. Yeah. And that's that's what the medical system in the past has been, like we all hear all the time is a sick care system versus a welfare system. Do you mind sharing how many kids you have as a bother? And if you did you vaccinate them? Just like you were told to? We had

Stephen Joncus  36:41  
two kids, my daughter's 29. And they were vaccinated. My theory adult think you're the 90s there were 193 96. B, the number of vaccines was less than it is tonight. But no reason not to and matter of fact, with a couple months ago, I apologize to my son for getting into vaccinated because I think he is mild indications of vaccine injured with really bad skin issues at some future of the world. But I wish I had no, I don't know how would it go at the die? Is at 96. But I

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  37:18  
wish I know. Right? And I think that's the piece for us as parents is that there was no information to CDC, all those things. They don't do any research. They don't tell you it could happen. And one thing that I've noticed through the years is that there's vaccine injury and there's Fash vaccine effects. And effects aren't really looked at the eczema, the ear infections and minor things that aren't going to kill your child, but they will affect their overall health. So it sounds like you've looking back, you may have seen some of those things. But unless you like you said unless it was drawn to your attention, because when our kids are that much older now, I don't know that we remember every fever they had after a vaccine, how were they cranky? Did they react? You probably don't remember those things, or

Stephen Joncus  38:04  
I don't because I was so distant from that my wife was the one that was close. I never knew if they actually had a vaccine or not. It was such a visit. And I didn't know whether they even had a vaccine. My wife tracked all that closer, but I don't think she cracked it that close. And I use my daughter, she's got to ask you to prove it. So the childhood vaccines,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:28  
right. And that's the thing, though, is that back then, at that time, which is not that long ago, but there were those things they aren't. And that's the thing is the more they add to the schedule, the more we're seeing all these things. And that's what's unfortunate is that it wasn't maybe prominent enough back then and enough injuries, enough issues that anybody could really be aware until doctors like Dr. Paul and Dr. Sears and other people started seeing things happen to our children and becoming less healthy. So knowing what now about vaccines, would you have done things differently?

Stephen Joncus  39:04  
Oh, no vaccines at all.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  39:06  
Okay, so do you remember? And can you honestly say that? Can you say what? Okay, oh, I'm curious. Because that's the thing being in the position that you're in and all that you've had to learn in order to represent these people. But it makes me wonder I had interviewed somebody else. And somebody asked me later after the interview and said, you asked this particular person and they said, Oh, they wouldn't do any at all. But she's like, how do you know is that just off the cuff? How do you know if they really wouldn't do anything at all? Um, how would you answer that?

Stephen Joncus  39:39  
Oh, I have a current situation where my daughter in law told me that unless I was vaccinated against pertussis I couldn't see my grandchild for six months.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  39:54  
Okay, repeat that one more time.

Stephen Joncus  39:57  
My my daughter in law has told me My wife, then unless we're vaccinated for pertussis, we can't see our new granddaughter for until she's six months old. Wow. So I have to be recently vaccinated because she had a cat bite and she got a tetanus shot at the same time when she got the cat bite. This is maybe four or five years ago. So as I understand that, the Pertussis vaccine is combined a tetanus vaccine. So she's been recently vaccinated, but I'm not going. National Oh my gosh. So

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  40:34  
that's really what I'm going to talk about too, with you is you're in this big professional fight for Dr. Paul, and for a lot of people to be able to have freedom from that and to be so closely connected to someone who's buying into all of that.

Stephen Joncus  40:48  
How does that make you feel? Makes me feel sad that I can't get through to her or my son? I think yes. frustrating. Very frustrating, because I keep looking for the magic bullet. Yeah, well, what are the new arguments that will make a difference? I keep sending them see cursus publications, which, and he's transitioned from being COVID, hacking Makoa vaccines to now attacking childhood vaccines, which I was terrific because he has a lot of value because he collects information and puts it together and ask questions that the others don't ask.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  41:34  
So what I was then going to say is, so what's the feedback? Like when you do some things? What's the relationship now? Has it been harmed? Because you've said you won't get the vaccine? Or is there still an openness between you and your son?

Stephen Joncus  41:51  
He does want to talk about it. But there's also the it's not an immediate issue because they don't live down the street, right? In Chicago, so I'm just not gonna fly here. Right? For a while. My wife's there right now. Okay, because to help out my daughter in law, then my son just came home. Least, she'll be there for much of this month, we don't know exactly where she's coming back with, you have to go to me in September for a wedding. But my basically, my entire family, to my daughter and my siblings, my parents and my siblings, children are on the brainwash side of all of these issues. They're all brainwashed. And I'm the black sheep in the family, so to speak. And it doesn't matter what the issue is climate change, Republican versus Democrat, vaccines, wars, for on the opposite side of all these issues, it seems. And it's, it's perplexing to because I wish I knew more psychology.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  43:00  
I have to wonder though, I've had lots of training and different things. And it's, I'm still stunned. And I work with a lot of people and wellness coach regarding communication and how families can try and come together. And like in your situation, if they're going to have their hard stand. All you can do is love and be there and pray that nothing happens to their children based on their beliefs. So my last question is, I would like for you to share, if you will, your personal feelings like how you feel as a dad and the grandpa about the fact that government has control seems to have more control over the decisions that parents make for their children. So I haven't heard it said in this episode, but informed consent and what the Oregon medical board is doing to doctors and specifically Dr. Paul, what happens for you, you're out there as a lawyer and you're doing all the professional peace, but what's happening in your heart and your soul, knowing that somebody else could take away a child because of a parent's choices.

Stephen Joncus  44:03  
Oh, I'm furious. absolutely furious. And the way I express that could be this look, this is actually worse than what the doctors in Nazi Germany did. This is worse. We need a Nuremberg Q trial. And we'd hate the public hang isn't necessary. That's my that's how angry I am. Okay.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  44:34  
And that's thank you for your honesty. If anyone gets hung around here, guess where they're gonna go? I thanks for that. Because I think that's the piece is to hopefully we can take all of our anger and all the things that are happening and for me just being how scared I am for some of these children. That, again, that parents who are raising their children that doctors don't raise our children, lawyers Don't raise our children, not you, but another lawyer that that you're going to fight against is going to tell you that all these people have these rights. And they're not who goes home with these kids. And they're not the one who's raising these children the expenses of taking care of a child with autism, or who's sick. And so I think that's the thing that

Stephen Joncus  45:22  
I feel and you

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  45:22  
can say yes or no, but I feel like that's what you are fighting for. I feel like what you're doing now is so important, because you're not afraid to fight these people. Is that kind of what keeps you going?

Stephen Joncus  45:35  
Really is much more rewarding to doing this work than any other work I've done? Well, yeah. Because of all the people who appreciate, you know, express appreciation, like he just did. For what I'm doing. It's really rewarding. I've never had standing ovations before when I go to speak. And I never say no, I'm sorry.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  46:00  
You do now.

Stephen Joncus  46:01  
Yeah, if that's happened, for a while there, all I had to do is I assumed government say I sued Governor Brown and house like, crazy and, and the suit up the chair. That's entirely you for me. I was lonely attorney working in the trenches. You're not

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  46:21  
lonely anymore. But don't you still feel like you're in the trenches now?

Stephen Joncus  46:26  
Well, because this definitely, yes. There's a lot of there's a lot of grinding away these issues and trying to figure out the levers that might change someone's mind, who is deeply the mesh in sleep.

propagandize? I wish I could find the levers, they would change war minds have changed minds. It's hard. No, but I'm just searching for those locks. And some respect that, for example, I'm trying to persuade judges. And these are people that I had to have respected didn't respect, but I can't seem to get through to them, at least in the district of Oregon. But with was so self evident, and honest. And I think though,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  47:24  
I'm gonna give you some advice. And so just don't quit. I think you'll find those levers, we talk about buttons and pushing buttons and lifting levers and making changes move all of that, I think you're doing that I every time, I've heard people like within the freedom group saying that, how much it helped for them to hear what you're doing, just knowing that somebody is fighting for our children and isn't gonna back down and is going to help people like Dr. Paul. Continue to educate, continue to fight, continue to do the things that will change one mind at a time. Every time we go to a conference, every time you stand up and speak everything that you do for us. It changes it's moving. Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like it's doing it as fast as the other side is bringing people on, but I honestly believe will win. And honestly, it is because of people like you, I hope you when you get that. And I feel like probably the best motivator you have is the fact that you're you're gonna have grand grandchildren in this world, you're you've got kids who have been affected by the vaccine, and no, and you didn't know and when you know you do better. So I think that's probably the strongest thing you have going for yourself. So thank you very much. I have a last question for you. So what do you say to all of these other lawyers out there that are on the other side, or lawyers who are believed like you do, Steve, but they're afraid of losing their careers or they're afraid of having their own name bashed or slammed? What do you say to them?

Stephen Joncus  49:08  
I try to tell them the truth. I try to give them the most persuasive things that I've read. I have collection and I have a document of about 60 pages is chock full of links, oh, things that I collect when I as I read and I will handful a stand a handful to somebody and try to change their mind. But there are those people who are agree with me, but they're just in situations in bigger firms that politically won't go there. Right. So they their hands are tied unless they decide to jump out and go out on their own and I hope more of them will do it. I was when this came along. I was at Alicia, are you work for myself? Yes. I was still working for the firm that I worked for in Portland with the last 2001 for 2016 There's no way I could have done this. And if I was handcuffed, financially handcuffed to that job, then that was a barrier to write to do that.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  50:13  
And I would think it would be scary for just a lot of people in general because it standing up for what you believe in many times, like you're going through right now standing alone, you it's just like what Dr. Paul had to leave his practice and the stand alone because of what he believed in. So, thank you very much. Thank you for letting me interview you. You truly are an amazing man. And if anything we can do that supports you or helps you or same thing and we'll use some of your links. I have a lot of people that ask about children who are being can't go to school or do different things or, and I always give them your name and your number to help because I know that you're willing to fight for people who can't fight for themselves.

Stephen Joncus  50:56  
Yeah, hi, just apparently to grow my practice. I just need myself a knife.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  51:01  
I need to get some of those other lawyers to jump ship and come with you. Alright, thanks for joining me, Steve.

Stephen Joncus  51:08  
All right, thank you, didi. Have a great day.

Dr. Paul  51:16  
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world. It's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai