​Dr. Paul  0:05  
Dr. Paul, welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. This week I'm talking to Dr. Tina Moore. She is a fierce advocate for health autonomy. She has a podcast the Dr. Tina show, check it out. We're discussing today, metabolic health. Only 6% of US adults are metabolically healthy. She helps us understand how this is related to obesity to maternal health issues. And really huge impact to your resilience and health and metabolic health is building muscle. She covers it beautifully. The last part of this show, I'm talking to Scott Miller, man, this is just it gives me goosebumps, just feeling the energy and the the what he's gone through. He's going to share with you his experience with medical board in Washington State. They yanked his license after a week long hearing. And it sounds just horrendous. You've got to hear for yourself. This guy's a hero, he needs our support. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. You know, I touched on gratitude a bit last week, but that was the stone I picked up this day. And I am so grateful for so many things. I've felt at times like I'm walking through fire. And sometimes it felt lonely and isolated. But you all have been there all the way. I have such gratitude for that I have dear friends, colleagues, people who have stood with me beside me and I haven't felt alone at all. And of course, we all know the Almighty, that light that love that's always with us no matter where we are. How can you not be grateful for that it doesn't matter what we're going through. I have a roof over my head and food in my belly when I want it. And I'm grateful also for actually all the hardship I've gone through. It has transformed my life. It has humbled me. I was an egotistical, crazy doctor, right who who woulda thought he was all that. It's shocking to think somehow how I had sort of just gotten stuck in that. And it was everything that's happened that was able to break through and allow me to just feel and be and since you since others be a part of so grateful for life grateful for you grateful for this journey. And you know, no matter what this world might feel like it's doing or spinning out of control. It's not we've got this and together amazing things are gonna happen. Thank you

Welcome Dr. Tina Moore to against the wind doctors in science under fire. It's privileged to have you on the show.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  3:06  
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. It's an honor. Dr. Paul, thank you.

Dr. Paul  3:10  
You are an expert in holistic regenerative medicine, resilient metabolic health. You're a podcaster host, author, speaker, kettlebell devotee and a mom. I've done a fair bit of CrossFit myself where I've had some, some level of kettlebell work. I know you're a fierce advocate for health, autonomy and personal responsibility. So at the end of the show, we're definitely gonna give folks a way to get in touch with you and your show. Help us understand who you are a little bit better, just because I'm also meeting you for the first time here. And it's it's a real privilege to have you on the show,

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  3:50  
sir. Well, I am so honored to be here. You are such a fierce warrior. And you have really, I've only gotten a glimmer of what you've experienced over the past few years. And so I just want to honor you because you've been you've been a fierce advocate for truth. I am a chiropractor. I'm a naturopathic doctor in Oregon. I closed my practice, actually, a couple years back. Oddly, I knew something was coming. I didn't know what I just had this overwhelming feeling that my ability to use my voice would be compromised. And if I had a practice intact, there would be a problem there. Interestingly, when this all started, like my following grew very quickly, and it was because I was trying to hold the line on the truth and dismantle some of the nonsense that I felt was coming through. And I just I really thought my profession of naturopathic medicine would step up to save the day. I figured it was our time to shine when the pandemic started and was quickly they tried to silence me themselves very quickly. It's just been a really weird, interesting journey. And I had the honor of speaking at the Children's Health defense event last weekend with your call like general Dr. Jennifer Margulies, and it was such an honor to be there. And to be in a room of other folks who were open to learning open to hearing new truths, intelligence, and just freedom and truth seekers themselves. And so that's kind of how I ended up here on your show. I think roundabout I got

Dr. Paul  5:21  
absolutely I a lot of rave reviews of your talk, and you know, your message. And that's why I wanted to give you a broader platform to get your message out. So it's really a privilege to have you on the show. Yeah, the naturopathic community, you know, Oregon has a naturopathic college there aren't that many in the country. And I thought for sure, as I have many friends who are naturopaths, that your profession, you guys were going to be the shining light. And they something happened and they they want to somehow I think the politics of trying to be accepted by insurances and all of that played into decisions that basically sold out to Pharma. And it was shocking to me.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  6:06  
It's been really interesting. Yeah, I'm on the board, the association board. And I can't say too much. But I it's been just really interesting. The the political, political alignments and strategies, I understand where they're coming from. We're, we're witch hunted in general as a profession. And so, you know, coming out with a strong stance or opposing the narrative, I see could be troublesome. But, again, I speak as my own autonomous person here. And you know, I've had my own struggles with viral diseases. I actually almost got taken out by cytomegalovirus when I was 19. And it was a really interesting journey, because that virus doesn't normally hit people who are not immunocompromised. And so that derailed me in college, I ended up with sort of a long, long hauler syndrome, as they call it now. But you know, what you and I know it as post viral syndrome. That lasted me about 10 years, which led me into naturopathic school in the first place. So when this virus hit, I was like, huh, I don't think we're getting the full picture here. I'm not a virologist, and I'm not an immunologist. But I understand both well enough to know that something was awry with the messaging we were receiving. So

Dr. Paul  7:21  
for sure. So one of the strengths that I heard about you was this concept of metabolic health. What is the status of our metabolic health here in the United States,

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  7:35  
it's pretty atrocious. And for those who don't know what that term means, it's simply our ability to take in nutrients and process them appropriately in a positive manner in our body. But humans have definitely gotten off course, there's a lot of reasons we could blame. I, I blame big food, first and foremost, and the adulteration of our nutrients and our what they call food, which is basically a chemical shitstorm in a package. A few

Dr. Paul  8:04  
highly processed food, like things that our people are told to eat. Yeah, also, you know, I being an integrative medicine now for a couple decades, I became aware of the same problem, nutrient deficiencies. And some of what I've read is the soil has become so depleted because of the farming practices, mass production. Is that part of it, too?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  8:27  
I think it's all of it. I think we've got a poor nutrient supply. I think we've got a lot of chemicals that are being passed as food. I think we've got agendas to hit that bliss point of, you know, sugar, sweets, and the Salt, Sugar Fat ratios being just right to get people that dopamine hit. If they are eating real food that's grown out of the soil, it's nutrient depleted, our animals are being commercially raised in somewhat horrific ways. I mean, it's all a big mess. And it's led to some pretty poor outcomes with Americans in their metabolic health. The last study I saw that just came out and I don't have the source, I'm sorry, I can find it for you for the show notes was that the study ended in 2018. And just six just over 6% of US adults had optimal cardio metabolic health. And a study that came out in 2019 showed that just 12% did. So I can't imagine with lockdowns, you probably know the stats better than I do of what's happened, especially for children with rates of diabetes and obesity since lockdowns, but that I'm sure all of those rates have increased significantly. You know, one in three US adults over one and three is considered obese, and that's a BMI of 30 or higher and I know BMI is kind of a nonsense marker, but it's it's a gauge right? And we don't even I don't even know the stats will be from looking at some different National Diabetes Association. stats, it's basically around. If my math is right 80 Some percent of Americans are either obese or overweight in that category, which doesn't always mean poor metabolic health, but generally it will lead to poor metabolic health. And you can be thin also and have poor metabolic health, it's a matter. It comes down to, in my opinion, muscle mass as the driving factor of who is going to be metabolically sound or not. And so we're sitting at, you know, what is it like one in four, one in five children now are considered obese? We have a real problem on our hands.

Dr. Paul  10:34  
Yeah, we do. And I think when we mentioned diabetes, we should distinguish type one diabetes from the type two, which is more of the metabolic one, right?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  10:44  
Absolutely. And the statistics coming even out of China early on, which I'm sure you saw as well, showing that those who were diabetic were getting more fiercely impacted by COVID was what queued my attention. And this made sense to me, because that's how it is with all infections. Really, if you are in poor metabolic health, you're going to have a harder time with an acute infectious agent, you're going to have a harder time with sort of chronic infectious situation. So like I my business was regenerative medicine, I did injections on people's joints. And I would not inject a diabetic without a really, really strong informed consent and other you know, mitigating other factors that I could because a they didn't heal well. And B, they were at much higher risk for infection that I could introduce into that joint. So I already knew this information. And I took to the airwaves and tried to help people and warn people and I was met with a massive amount of vitriol and pushback, and censorship and attacks. But like I said, even from my own profession, which was so surprising to me, because I thought, I'm trying to educate people on how to make themselves more resilient, and robust. And I'm being silenced, which made me say, hmm,

Dr. Paul  11:55  
yeah, I want to come back to how they censored you and what they were doing to you. Because this is going on so much in our country, and people are not aware of it, they need to hear these stories. But back to that metabolic health point and diabetics being at higher risk for infection. And if you're not in an optimal metabolic state, can you maybe in layman's terms for our audience, explain how that happens or why?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  12:24  
Sure. So your metabolism, you know, our friend, our mutual friend, Mike muscle, describes it as two sides of the same coin, right? metabolic disease and metabolic dysfunction and your immune system are two sides of the same coin. And if your metabolic health is unsound, your immune system won't function function optimally. So the first phase of your immune system, the signaling between, you know, part one and part two is just to keep it simple for folks, you've got your initial reaction of your immune system, and then there's a communication system that sends a signal to the second phase to kick in, which is where more of our memory lives in our immune system. And none of that works or orchestrates correctly, for even the memory part of it works if there is a lot of metabolic disease, which leads to a lot of inflammation. It's a big mess. And, and we could go you know, it leads to cardiovascular issues, and pretty much every chronic degenerative illness that we know in adults, and that we're also seeing in children, which I'm sure you know better than I is due to, in my opinion, at the root cause of metabolic dysfunction. And so, we also had studies on the influenza, especially around 2019, we had studies coming out showing that those who were obese and or diabetic and or frail and or malnourished, were sitting in a situation where not only did they not deal with influenza as well, they had a much harder time but they actually became more infectious. They are who is known as the Super spreaders. They are the folks that actually carry more viral titers in their bodies because their body is sort of allowing it if you will, because their immune system isn't working optimally. So they're building up huge viral titers, they're spewing out more Viron. So they are put in that super spreader category. This group is also the same group who doesn't respond well to vaccinations so they don't seem to convert well, meaning they don't have a robust immune response as we would like to a vaccine. So I was trying to share this information out saying, Hey, guys, the solution is not necessarily to lock down forever and mask up like we have to address this piece or this won't ever stop. This will continue even if they bring in a vaccine, and I'm not an an anti Vaxxer by any means. But I knew early on that this probably wasn't going to work, especially when it was launched. And it was a leaky vaccine. So I was like, okay, like I kept trying to ring the bell sharing objective data, and getting, you know, a lot of pushback for that. So, and now we're seeing the studies with COVID that similarly, those who have a larger waist circumference are not responding as well, they're not mounting as strong of an antibody response to the vaccine. Those who are severely obese one study I just came across was showing that not only do they not make neutralizing antibodies to the virus itself, but they actually make auto antibodies, non neutralizing auto antibodies. So the virus itself due to the spike protein automatically induces an autoimmune state. That would be it even says in the study that we need to consider this with a vaccine as well, because the vaccine induces, you know, Spike protein synthesis. So, I mean, these are real problems and the public health divisions, nobody was nobody was trying to help these people. And I have been adamantly beating this drum trying to help these folks, because this, to me is how this persists. This is why I believe so many people have died unnecessarily. Have metabolic disease can be turned around pretty quickly.

Dr. Paul  15:59  
How let's segue right into that, because that fascinates me, I always like to give our viewers how to, I mean, yeah, we can when we can, because our knowledge is power here. And really, you we don't need the pharmaceutical industry, we need to take our power back. And I think that's what you do with your show as well. But give our viewers a taste of what can they do? Let's say I'm overweight, and I'm worried. You know, what, what can I do?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  16:29  
And even again, folks that are too thin, that don't have any muscle mass, those folks are actually at a higher risk for death. So this is everyone, right? This is pretty much every human. I think building muscle is probably the fastest and most efficient way to write the ship. Because for a lot of reasons.

Dr. Paul  16:47  
That's like I intuitively that makes sense. But do explain why.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  16:54  
So muscle isn't endocrine system has its own sort of endocrine abilities itself, there's, we could get into the you know, deep dive into it. But the most simplistic terms is the way I think of it as we need to stop up some of that extra blood glucose that's swirling around in these folks systems, that's at the end of the day, when they have poor metabolic health. That's what's going on. So when you build muscle, you not only build more mitochondria, which you improve your mitochondrial function, which is huge, a huge part of this equation. But number two, you increase the receptors to sop up that glucose. So you're literally creating a sponge to not only stop up the glucose, but that helps the muscle build strength training in and of itself is just such a miraculous solution to me, because you are managing and dealing with the metabolic dysfunctions head on directly, like your body's response to building muscle is to it wants the glucose, it's like, hey, send it over here. We'll use it. Number two, you so everything else sort of falls into place. So when you strength train, you said you do some CrossFit? What do you do you want to hydrate? Don't you? You drink adequate water? You probably you probably sleep better and go to bed on time because you just wore yourself out like we all should we should. We're we're mammals, we're supposed to expend energy, you probably feed yourself better, with better, better nutritional choices. Because you know, you work so hard for that muscle way.

Dr. Paul  18:18  
You know, you point some real truth there. Those of us who do exercise, when you know you're going to have to go exercise, you pay a little more attention to what you're eating because exercise at an intense level hurts a lot more when you've eaten poorly.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  18:32  
Yeah, yes. Yeah. So all the other things we need people to do for good health sort of fall into place when your strength training. Another reason I love strength training is because it's about strength gain, not weight loss. I know I talk a lot about adiposity. But I'm not that concerned about the fat on people, I'm concerned about the state of their fat, how that fats behaving. And that fat behaves a lot better and goes away a lot faster when you have muscle to burn it. So building muscle and focusing on strength gain is such a better mindset to be in than it is to like, oh my gosh, I have to lose weight that which is a daunting, ominous task. For a lot of people I understand. It's nuance. So building strength is a fun goal. It's something that we can all do. And we can all and it's not a comparison. It's not who gets there faster, who's stronger. It's where are you personally, and it doesn't incredible. It has an incredible impact on your mindset, right at the end of the day, you're you. You just did something hard and doing hard things makes you a more robust person to handle all of the onslaughts of stress that come at us. Shoot, I lift two to three days a week for maybe my action besides warmup and cooldown, maybe 3040 minutes of actual strength training, so it's not late. It's not a lot of time that you have to commit. And I think it's a really great way to get the ball moving.

Dr. Paul  19:49  
Remind, remind us how COVID has specifically been challenging to metabolic health.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  19:58  
Well work for One we all got locked down and everybody quit moving, especially in Oregon, you know, you're in Oregon too. I know. And it's, they closed the gyms and so a lot of people have gained a lot. I mean, obesity rates have gone up, diabetes rates have gone up, it's pretty bad. I think the average American said they have gained like 24 to 29 pounds, I believe it was, that's enough to put you over the edge into metabolic dysfunction. Really, the easiest way to check metabolic dysfunction of really the kind of the quick and dirty that I did in my practice is my question. One was, Are you strength training regularly? If they told me no, that was one, check. Number two was waist circumference pretty specific. And lots and lots of studies, waist circumference across the globe has shown risk for type two diabetes. And so the red zone where the absolute cut off is 40 inches for a man measured at his belly button and 35 inches for a woman which is about two finger breaths above the belly button, which should be the smallest part of the waist, which I know it's not once we start to gain weight that can change. But that's where you want to measure. Those are not a lot of humans are fitting into that anymore. And this was again across the globe looking at different ethnicities as well. And then the third one was I would take their blood pressure. And if their blood pressure was slightly elevated, there was a pretty good chance that they had some metabolic dysfunction. And so I would immediately work them up for metabolic disease. And that was just you know, add in a few lab values. And the international standards for diagnosing metabolic disease are pretty simple. And any doctor can do it. And in fact, it's the same, it's just lipid, you're looking at lipids, you're looking at waist circumference, and you're looking at blood pressure. That's it right. And if three out of five of these factors are positive, then you have metabolic disease. And so that is not great, we were probably sitting in a pretty bad category going into COVID COVID. itself. Such it's a pro inflammatory, it's a it's a cardiovascular disease at its core, and it likes to light you on fire. And once that fire starts, it's very hard to put out. And that's why people go to the hospital and end up having bad outcomes. Because once uh, once the cytokine storm is on, it's, you know, it's very, you know, it's hard to mitigate that. So folks were walking into COVID, not knowing that they had metabolic dysfunction, even those who, like my husband was one of them, he had no idea he he's, for all intents and purposes looks like a pretty lean fit guy. And I was like, hey, guess what, you have metabolic disease when I met him, so, you know, we had to clean that up. But he had a pretty hard time with COVID. Because it does start to you know, and it also causes high blood pressure. And high blood pressure is one of the indicators for folks who are going to have a harder time with COVID. For sure. Folks who have high blood pressure about rough time.

Dr. Paul  22:44  
Yeah, I've definitely read that as a risk factor along with the obesity and the diabetes. Why do you think high blood pressure is such a risk factor? And what's the best way to help someone who's been diagnosed with high blood pressure? I get it, we've got to get into the gym, we've got to build some muscle. But beyond that, what what should people be doing.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  23:04  
So the high blood pressure is actually just a direct result of the metabolic dysfunction. That's it's just a symptom of metabolic dysfunction. And when you clean up the metabolic dysfunction, the high blood pressure goes away. And that's how I've always treated at my clinic and it works like a charm for everybody. You know, once we get their waist circumference back in line, we get a moving, we get an eating I like to focus on a heavier animal protein diet, I think that are combined your proteins really well if you're a vegetarian or vegan, but making sure you're getting good protein, adequate protein in your system. I tell people who are strength training to eat about a gram of protein per ideal pound of body weight. So if you want to be 130 pounds, then you're eating a gram of protein per pound that you're shooting for. Strength training is key. I think going for walks is brilliant and old naturopathic Tennant, is just take a walk after meals and we're now seeing data on that supporting that as being efficacious. So going for a walk after every meal, especially if you have carbohydrates in your meal is key. Getting enough sleep is just absolutely critical. That is a non negotiable. And I know a lot of people have sleep issues, I always say and I know it sounds harsh if you have sleep issues and you're not exercising don't talk to me about your sleep issues because I really think we're just fancy mammals and we need to wear ourselves out like I said earlier we got we have a lot of energy and stress to off gas and that really helps sleep quite a bit. So sleeping has been shown if you disrupt your sleep and get inadequate sleep for even a few nights you drop immediately into an insulin resistant state or a metabolic disease state. So we want to make sure that we are getting our sleep putting ourselves to bed on time getting up looking at the horizon in the morning and looking at the horizon in late afternoon and then cutting out all refined sugars. We do not need to be drinking high fructose corn syrup we do not need to be drinking In our sugars, a lot of people are drinking a lot of sugar. If they really sit down and look at it, and getting the table sugar and the refined sugars out of our diet, fruit sugars, naturally occurring sugars, fine, but we sucked down. I mean, I think the average American is eating like a bag of one pound bag of sugar a week, I think was the last stats I looked at was crazy, crazy amount of sugar. So yes, our foods, eat real food is eat real food.

Dr. Paul  25:31  
So you slipped by it really fast. And I want to just make sure I caught it correctly. I think you're equating metabolic disorder or metabolic disease with insulin resistance. Is that true? Yes. Okay, so insulin resistance, I'm going to try to paraphrase it for our audience. And then you can kind of fine tune what I'm about to say, you the receptors in all your cells, we need to use glucose, sugar, for energy. And we have receptors that when you have too much sugar around, they have to down regulate, otherwise, you're you're going to make too much insulin, trying to simplify it, and I'm probably butchering this. But anyway, if your receptors aren't working as well, that's insulin resistance, you make more and more insulin, trying to get the blood sugar to normalize, because that's, for whatever reason, our biology is such that blood sugars are supposed to be kept right in this little narrow range. And how I had never quite put it together quite as eloquently, as you said, just build more muscle so you can reduce insulin resistance.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  26:42  
Yeah, so your cells have the insulin receptors, like you said, and the glucose binds, and the insulin works like a key the let all let that glucose inside the cell and the cell needs glucose to function, right. And if, if there's too much glucose outside, the body starts, like you said, cranking out insulin, and the cells are like, whoa, we have too much. So they cleave off their receptors, they like you said, they down regulate them. So now it's all in the blood, and the cells are starving, which makes your brain think you're starving, so you keep eating. And then this high insulin actually takes all the calories you're eating for the most part, if your insulin is high, and starts hoarding it as fat, not even a good kind of fat, it's hoards it as a kind of fat that gets locked in the fat cells and can't get out to be used as fuel, it's a big mess. So we don't want high insulin, high. Insulin is also pro grow, meaning pro grow cancer, pro grow all kinds of problems, right. So we don't necessarily want high insulin levels. And I don't know, I ran insolence, serum insulin and blood sugar markers on every patient who walked in my door for a decade plus, and I rarely saw a normal insulin level, most everybody was walking around with an elevated serum insulin level, which tells me they had insulin resistance. So insulin is actually really good. When you are building muscle, it helps you build muscle, so it's awesome, like you want and you actually get an insulin, a genic response when you strength train. So for a period of time, after you're done doing your CrossFit, you get an insulin surge, because your body's using it to build muscle. That's the time to eat carbohydrates. That's when you've earned them. Right? That's awesome. But the other thing that strength training does is it up regulates glute four receptors, so it makes more of these receptors that bind the glucose and the insulin and pull it in. So you're literally putting a layer of glucose receptors on you. So all this blood sugar is out there circulating and your muscle stops it up like a sponge. So you

Dr. Paul  28:38  
can use the blood glucose for proper metabolic reasons. Yeah. Basal Metabolic Rate is just that, use that even while you're sleeping, right, just to keep your cells functioning. Yes. And then everything else on top of that. Depends on how active you are.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  28:56  
Yes, but basal metabolic rate will increase when you have more muscle because muscle is a hungry Oregon and it really wants to get fueled, and it needs glucose to fuel it. So and then that fatty liver that goes along with insulin resistance and poor metabolic health, which almost everyone has, I mean, I haven't seen normal liver enzymes on most people, that those fat globules in the liver if left unchecked, and they continue, you know, so many doctors just blow it off because they themselves have fatty liver. So they're like, Oh, this is it's just been normalized. It's crazy. How many patients would walk in and say I have fatty liver but my doctor said it was normal. And I'm like, This is not good. Because eventually it leads to liver cirrhosis. It's not a good thing. So those fat globules are pretty much the first to go when you start strength training. I mean, it's literally the it's a panacea it is the in my opinion, the end all be all non negotiable in this and everybody can strength train older folks can strength train young folks can strike train, we need muscle to move these big levers around. We were designed to pick up everything's and move them up. But across the way, that's how we're built literally, you know, mechanistically. So I think that it's a great tool to help sort of get this whole thing rolling much faster, because I've seen most doctors in integrative medicine using diet, and supplements, and and those are all great, but that's not as much fun is actually throwing some heavy weights around. Once you start doing it, it gets addictive, and it's really satisfying.

Dr. Paul  30:28  
And sounds like it's the most powerful tool, we have to get out of insulin resistance and get on track with, you know, burning the unnecessary fat off and reducing our risk factors.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  30:45  
Yeah. And the last, the last thing I'll say about it is that there's a vicious cycle that happens when your blood sugar is too high. And when you are in that metabolic disease state, that insulin resistance state, it actually induces muscle wasting. So you get in this terrible cycle, where your skeletal muscle mass starts to actually erode because of your blood sugar dysregulation. And so that's a very vicious downward spiral that so many Americans are in and you start getting the protuberant belly and the skinny little arms and legs, which we see so much of walking around. That is a signal that something bad is going on. And so you're kind of fighting an uphill battle for a minute when you start strength training, if you're in that state, because you've got to reverse that. And it takes a minute, it takes about 90 days, I think, for people to really start seeing benefits and to see changes on labs and changes in their you know, and how their figure looks but in their in their body composition. But it it it happens. And it's awesome.

Dr. Paul  31:42  
Yeah. Wow, this is exciting. Where can people go to learn more of your about you and your work?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  31:52  
Yeah, so my website is Dr. tina.com. It's Dr. T y n a.com. And that's where all my good stuff is. And then I'm on Instagram, probably most active there. And that's just at Dr. Tina. So am I podcasts which I cannot wait to have you on Dr. Tina show. You can find that on all podcast players.

Dr. Paul  32:11  
Dr. T y n a show. Dr. Right. Dr. Dr. Tina show, I am looking forward to being on your show. And I am so thankful that you came on against the wind, you have added a powerful component to our wellness approach. And that is just highlighting the importance of getting back to lifting weights and building muscle.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  32:39  
I love it. Thank you for having me on.

Dr. Paul  32:41  
Thank you, Tina. Appreciate you so much.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  32:44  
You too. Thank you. All right, bye bye.

Dr. Paul  32:52  
Welcome Scott Miller back to against the wind doctrines and science under fire. For our viewers. They know my story. But most of my viewers probably don't know your story. I got to interview you. You were days after having an emergency suspension of your license. I know you well enough to know that you have this incredibly huge heart. You're a godly man. You're a married man, you have kids. What happened to you was showed such incredible courage and bravery. I'm close to retirement. And so I was able to take on that risk more easily, I should say because I mean, you and I both knew going into this that there was an agenda. And if you speak out against vaccines, or you speak out against the mainstream narrative of COVID You were risking your career. And I remember reading what your wife Shelley wrote, you know, she saw you speaking out publicly, when the entire medical community both local and national was silent. And you were trying to advocate for children advocate for loved ones in the hospital as you were just trying to point out there because they were using these failed protocols that we knew weren't working. And I remember reading your response to your wife was Shelly I can't if I don't care for these people who will love is I think she wrote Love. This is not love me, meaning she's talking to you. This is not about me. This isn't a me thing. This is a God thing. And I chose to obey. I get goosebumps as I read that right now. I know that's who you are. Because if if people were to go back and look at our first interview, you were raw, they had just days before emergently yanked your license. And I remember that feeling because it happened to me. And actually, folks, you're looking at a man who's again rah, I'm sorry, I keep doing this to you. But you just had a hearing As with with the medical board in your state of Washington, or Washington State Medical Board. Man How, tell me about that.

Scott Miller, PA-C  35:11  
It's like a bad movie. And you're, you're watching it, and you're, you're seeing, you know, you're just you're seeing the manipulation of information. The adding and pasting of words, to or adding or leaving out a word that would be pretty critical for context. And, and use, use those things as a constant character assassination, which, for all intents and purposes, I don't, I don't care because I don't have an emotional attachment to those people. So I'm indifferent to what they're saying about me, it's just it's it's more of the attack on on my values and, and on my family, if, like if, and and the community, right, because these are people that that have been so unbelievably, like kind and loving and supportive and gracious and helping just support just the fight aspect of her or the defense of it. So, you know, when they characterize me in that in as many ways as they can to be this dangerous and nefarious, like hateful person that has no regard for anyone is, is dangerously practicing outside of what the CDC is, is dictate dictated to us, or what Merck tells us, we can do.

Dr. Paul  36:54  
So did they allow your side to present your case?

Scott Miller, PA-C  37:03  
So that that was the other fun thing. You know, they had about 20 exhibits. Now, they would lump their exhibits together. So it would be one exhibit was 1011 pages long. Another exhibit would be 867 pages long. So those were, like the length of their exhibits, they had asked me to send in everything that, you know, send us what you studied in the beginning that gave you the gall or nerve to think that you could figure out how to mitigate the inflammatory pathways or viral replication, so and they said, Send all that I laughed, and in my attorneys, I'm like, I mean, I don't even know that I could find all of it. But okay, so I sent them. I mean, over 100 journals, articles, you know, China, coming out of China in December, January of 2020, etc. And two days before the hearing, they decided that it was too much information for their expert, witness, Dr. NZ and to go through and to pare it down. We had to match their exhibit numbers, so we had to take everything out. Except for 20. She spent her time reading through the ivermectin studies, trashing them and make her point which is ivermectin is unsafe, and prescribing it is below the standard of care.

Dr. Paul  38:42  
Wow. This was all happening during your hearing.

Scott Miller, PA-C  38:47  
Yes. The limitations that they put on our ability to share information that I thought it was vital that I was reading, that I actually wanted them to know, just for their edification, like, things that I read that were my, you know, like these, aha, because I didn't know anything about the virus and Ace two or, you know, proteolytic enzymes and, and, you know, if you're in cleavage sites, there's like, Ah, no, so. So it's like, what do you try to reverse engineer this thing? I was like, Well, I mean, it can't be that hard. And it wasn't easy, but it wasn't rocket science. It was just science.

Dr. Paul  39:33  
Yeah. Well, I mean, you're one of the few that figured out what would help people with COVID. And you were actively helping people. And that was not acceptable to the medical community that wanted to stick with the status quo. The status quo, sadly, was hospitals were killing people unnecessarily with their protocols. You expose that I understand. And what did they what did they I mean, because you must have shared about the FLCC work and some some of our heroes in the Country, you know, peer Korean peer makalah. And Dr. Merrick, Dr. Gould, who's in prison right now. I mean, you know, the magnitude and stature of some of these physicians who've come out to basically say what you were trying to say, and you just didn't have the long list of credentials, or, you know, time in the trenches, but you're with good company, as far as people who were really figuring out how to help patients. What was what was their response to anything of that sort, if you if you indeed you brought that up.

Scott Miller, PA-C  40:35  
They brought it up, over and over and over almost it almost in a pathologic way. Like they like it's like, they think it's some sort of medical cult like thing, right. I mean, it was fascinating, because and the question I wanted to have Dr. Ramsey and asked was before 2020 or before March of 2020. What would your impression have been on? You know, pyramid kala pure quarry. I mean, like, Merrick, these are some of the most published and and most academic at their skill set both academically and in the practice of medicine as a pulmonologist and intensivist. I mean, these are just brilliant, brilliant men. And you look at how they do the studies where you know, just with ivermectin where it's like, we gave three milligrams once to somebody, you know, in the critical care and, and they didn't make it. Solid. It's good work

Dr. Paul  41:43  
a little too little too late there. Yeah. So So summarize for our viewers. I'm so sorry. You had to go through what you went through. Was it just yesterday? When did you have your hearing?

Scott Miller, PA-C  41:54  
The xo is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of last week. So the

Dr. Paul  41:58  
whole entire week? Last week? Yeah. Wow.

Scott Miller, PA-C  42:04  
And that the Adam Glico, the Chief Chief Investigator for Washington for state of Washington lauded their, their expert witness, Dr. endian. They didn't contact a single patient, a single family. Anybody to determine if the complainant, you know, to determine the veracity of the complaints?

Dr. Paul  42:36  
That that is just so emblematic of the situation with medical boards, I'm under the same situation. To my knowledge, they have not contacted the patients that they've listed as the reason for which they emerge currently suspended my license. Now, any investigator if you're in criminal or civil, you know, legal matters. Part of the investigation is go back to the primary sources and find out in interview some people,

Scott Miller, PA-C  43:07  
yeah, well, and did they make the complaint? Right, well, none

Dr. Paul  43:11  
of our patients made the complaints.

Scott Miller, PA-C  43:13  
Exactly. That was that's what I that's the thing like, like, in fact, it was the family. I mean, the ones that went to the hospital, all died. Yeah. And we tried to make that point where I apologize, person water, where, you know, they're just hammering and hammering that the treating outpatient is below the standard of care. And how dare I provide supplemental oxygen for somebody? It's like, really, like I've seen people walking around the airport or a coffee shop with a tank. So if they can do it, why why can't I do it? If you want to get an idea of where the state is? They were gracious enough to offer me a stipulation. I pay I have to pay the medical commission $30,000 for their time spent investigating me, so I'd have to go to Kansas for an inpatient neuro psychiatric evaluation and psychological workup to and then determine if I needed medications to correct my,

Dr. Paul  44:23  
your psychiatric condition,

Scott Miller, PA-C  44:24  
yeah, my psychiatric condition. And then I would have to have a full remediation of my, my clinical skills through University of San Diego. So that I could learn what evidence based medicine is, and then another remediation on, on studying so I would know what peer reviewed journals are versus just

Dr. Paul  44:48  
you could have the luxury of paying for all of this to

Scott Miller, PA-C  44:51  
and, and, and the time so if I do all of those things, and then ethics courses and write essays right ensure that their remediation or re education is complete. They would then decide whether or not I was fit to, to practice. So that's what the that's that's what's in this is where our taxpayer money is funding this just wow through show so it's fascinating but it was like this is a is my question in my head is Does she really think that right does she think she truly believes that? I need inpatient neuropsychiatric not just evaluation, but

Dr. Paul  45:41  
the diagnosis and treatment? There must be something wrong with you to be helping so many patients.

Scott Miller, PA-C  45:48  
Yeah. Well, she said I was irredeemable. Since since I said, I felt that this wasn't something that I was like, Yeah, this, like, I want to do this. It was like, I mean, I, the first few months, I studied, like I was preparing for, for boards, like, with with clinic, and I go home, and I kept saying, like, why are you studying this and it was a it was fascinating. But because, you know, when you keep hearing, there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing that made no sense remdesivir And you're like, that failed miserably free bola. And so she says, because I felt like I was called, you know, I was called to do this, that there's no possible way that I could be. There is I was irredeemable.

Dr. Paul  46:35  
So you know, what you are up against? Scott, I think it's this good old standard of care, right? And medical boards are, their job is to ensure that providers clinicians are practicing under the standard of care, which is what is commonly done in the community. And sadly, you make no progress if you stay with standard of care, especially if that standard of care is killing people, or is harming them or is ineffective. And you became early on aware of effective approaches. But because they weren't standard of care, you risked everything to save these people's lives. And, you know, I commend you for that courage this board action against you couldn't have come at a worse time personally. I mean, your your house is a disaster because of mold, right. And then your nine, almost nine months living in tents with a family. Wow. I mean, we get temperatures in the 90s sometimes it hits over 100 That's no fun in a tent.

Scott Miller, PA-C  47:41  
No, well, I and then I and I lost my off. And that was that was hard losing my office, you know, I that was it was like the it was like the last like vestige of what I had built, you know, is like yeah, remaining thing because it was like we were proud of

like, I was really proud of the of the care that we were able to bring to to our community and my staff. I mean, the debate I mean, just in general, like my carry and Christy, my office manager in front office, they weren't it couldn't have been more opposite in a sterile environment. I mean, people would just come in and hang out and talk with them. And they were their investment was it was just so fascinating because Baron they saw how invested I was in just fortunately our personalities were similar where their level of empathy and and kindness and giveness not at work was it was just such a an honor to you know, to have been able to serve with them.

Dr. Paul  49:19  
Scott you have a big heart it just you wear it on your sleeve your your loving kindness impersonate. Man I My office is under fire has been because of everything that's going on. And I mean every week now I'm wondering is is it possible to save it? I mean, it's because that's your baby, right? That's your career. You build this this thing that's going to help the community and serve the community and in your chosen profession. My heart goes out to you ma'am. This is this is very difficult times. I have no doubt. I know you're a man of faith. I have no doubt that out of this valley, some really great things are gonna come because people are still being injured. And people are people still more than ever are going to need providers like you. We need you, man. So don't despair. If that's possible. I want our viewers to know that there's a way to support scott miller and his work, we'll get that put up for people to be able to support you.

Scott Miller, PA-C  50:33  
Well, the other thing through so I started Miller wellness, most people are buying vitamin D and C and zinc anyway. So if they get it through our, our well debate platform, and it's very likely it would be cheaper than anywhere else, they could get it anyways. Miller wellness dotnet,

Dr. Paul  50:54  
Miller wellness.net. Folks, I have used well of eight and fullscript, in my own practice, and passed on big discounts. And I know you, Scott, you're going to do the same thing, because that's how you operate, you're going to pass on as much of a discount as you possibly can. So shop and compare, if you wish, I'll bet I'll bet you you're going to be quite pleased that the discount, you don't see it till checkout. So go to mill Miller wellness.net. Gosh, Scott, my heart goes out to you, man. Are you closing words? What would you like people to know? Whether it's personal from your heart, or just cautionary visionary? What? What would you like people to know?

Scott Miller, PA-C  51:42  
So many people have, I mean, you know, it's heartfelt, but I'm sorry, you're going through this. And I've heard that, you know, a few 1000 times. And it's something I think about a lot because I've been just criticized mercilessly about by, by, you know, small contingent, but, or even friends like, why why did you do that, like what you lost? And like, for me through this thing, it's like, well, if the science isn't there, I'm not gonna buy into it. To possibly not get, you know, have a fine on my clinic. I'm not I'm not. Well, you were told to do this. And you were told to do that. I'm like, Yep, it but there isn't a reason. It's just, that's the mandate. That's the new dictate, coming down. And like I, if, if I do it in and families say, can you explain to me why you're doing it? And I say, Well, just because there's no science, backing it.

What else am I going to do that's not backed by science. I mean, a am rambling, I would say. Be, be unapologetic. About how you choose to live, if it's in accordance with what I would say is a Christ like mission.

Dr. Paul  53:28  
Amen. Brother, be unapologetic about doing the right thing? You were that medic? You've been that medic. You've been running into the smoke and pulling people out. I don't know how many lives you've saved. You could probably hazard a guess. But I'll bet you it's in the hundreds.

Scott Miller, PA-C  53:47  
Or hundreds. Yeah. Oh, no, it was. That's why I'm saying it was just it was it was so shocking. I mean, I would have I would have a Friday, Saturday Sunday, with 15 people in a like the 80s Was it was like we would joke. Like that's the new 94 I mean, it wasn't like you're always freaked out. But

Dr. Paul  54:12  
you are running you are running the MASH unit in the war. I mean, you were really trying to save lives left and right. And and you saved most right? I mean, the ones you couldn't save where they got to you too late.

Scott Miller, PA-C  54:26  
Yeah, worked in didn't work or didn't get

Dr. Paul  54:28  
to you at all. I mean, you know that what you've been doing works we know this from from all the greats that you've talked about makalah and Corey and American protocols are worked out you're not this Maverick who's just out there winging it. You're you're a scientist and you're following the good science the real science and you couldn't compromise your ethics people will ask me the same thing how how come you know you're so brave you're so this You're so that? No, we don't have it. choice once you know better, and you're an ethical moral person, so I think Scott, you and I are both calling out to fellow physicians out there, it's time to stand up, it's time to speak the truth. You know, they can't get rid of all of us that, you know, you're gonna stay with a ship that's going down mainstream medicine is right now the Titanic and it's already leaning. And it's going down. The CDC and the NIH, if so compromised ethics that they can never again be trusted. And those who stick by them will go down with them. And so yeah, we're, we're being sacrificed along the way trying to, they're hoping that they can scare enough doctors by, you know, knocking some of us off. It's not going to happen, because our knowledge is still our knowledge. They can't take it away from us, right? Well, folks, you are looking at one of the most heroic, irredeemable providers on the planet organic, oh, my gosh, I tell you, brother, stand strong. But I think for our viewers just understand, the mainstream medical system is broken, it's corrupt. They use medical boards to keep doctors from doing the right thing. If there's something that might help, but it goes against CDC or NIH narratives, government or public health narratives, they will shut those doctors down and use the board, and they'll use the board to do it. And the two biggest areas, they've done that, well, in the past, it was over opiates, they're still doctors losing their licenses for either under or over prescribing opiates, that's become a very dangerous territory for a doctor to go into. I was in addiction medicine, so I know. But now it's vaccines and COVID. So these are the forbidden areas unless you I mean, hook line and sinker toe the line with what the CDC and the NIH and the public health officials say. And the World Health Organization now even has more power than the President, the United States. As far as public policy and what we're supposed to do. It's a strange world, but we're going to come out of it. Scott, thank you for all your hard hard work on behalf of the human race.

Scott Miller, PA-C  57:22  
Well, I want to just really quick it's because of you specifically and and finding out about you through it was through other parents

Dr. Paul  57:34  
and so I destroyed your career.

Scott Miller, PA-C  57:36  
No you watching you and your character standing up for what you believe and you're you've been waiting, you know, obviously way before meeting you, you are someone that i i in terms of character and standing standing by your you're you were unswayed by the attacks, because you knew what you were saying was was truth and you were your goal is to well informed consent and to give the best possible care you can. And I mean, I've watched them attack you and I was like holy crap. It sucked to be doctor.

Dr. Paul  58:24  
You beat me to the finish line.

Scott Miller, PA-C  58:27  
But I just wanted to thank you, you keep saying things about me. But it's because of, of you and the very few what I consider heroes of medical freedom. And so I'm deeply grateful for you paving the way.

Dr. Paul  58:44  
Thank you and I am sorry that I was one of the reasons you are now faced with not having a license, you still got a young family to support folks. There's a Gibson go fundraiser for Scott Miller. And you can go to his his website. He's He's reinventing himself and he's going to be available to people who actually need help whether you've had injury from COVID the illness or COVID, the vaccine. This is the kind of clinician you want to seek help from, because he does the research and he gets it. So thanks for being on the show. Scott,

Scott Miller, PA-C  59:20  
thank you. Appreciate your time.

Dr. Paul  59:27  
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire. Today's show, I am talking with Dr. Monique Robles. She is a board certified pediatric critical care doctor. I mean, these are the doc's who take care of the sickest of the sickest kids. She happens to also have a master's in bioethics. put those two together. And we've got a dynamite interview, we talked about what led her into medicine, pediatrics, critical care and ethics. But then we get into the COVID vaccine for kids. And for people in general. She's got an interesting take on this, you're not going to want to miss it and she gives some information for you, the parents and the grandparents. Bernadette closes us out with social marketing. Did you know that doctors Yes, even doctors like me, have been trained on how to coerce patients in the being vaccinated. It's a technique called the presumptive process. We're going to discuss that as well enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. Today I started my day by picking a stone from an inspirational Stone Collection. Guess what I picked? Serenity? Boy did I need that today? This was a day I had to sign something to the for the board that was dealing with four years of stuff I'm going through and I just needed to be reminded. That was the Serenity Prayer says, God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Wow, did I struggle with wisdom there and trying to sort that all out. I hope that little serenity prayer reminder can be of some help to you with whatever you might be going through. I also wanted to touch today on surrender and gratitude. I've learned so often that I must surrender to get free to be free. And you need gratitude to overcome resentments. What we resist persists. This is something I've learned from many of the great heroes, whether we're talking St. Francis of Assisi, Gandhi, MLK, Nelson Mandela, they've all shared that same message. Our world is in a crazy power ego control cycle that just seems to be endless. How do we break through that? We talk about it here. It's love. It's being able to just love others and look for their spiritual goodness that's within them. That's what I strive for. I hope you join in that journey of love and breaking through. We can do this

welcome Dr. Monique Robles, you are somebody I didn't know about. And I'm just so excited to have you on against the wind. Thank you so much Dr. Ball for having me. It's such a pleasure. Dr. Monique is board certified in pediatric critical care. So you go through a whole pediatric residency, then you go through this very long critical care residency. On top of that you have a master's in bioethics. Beyond that you became the chief resident. And that is, folks again, it's only the top top folks who get to be the chief. So we are looking at a cream of the crop doctor here and it is such a delight to have the combination of you've been in pediatrics, you've been in critical care, and you have an ethics bioethics background. We need that today. So I'm really looking forward to kind of picking your brain a little bit about what's going on in our world.

I know you're on the advisory board of the truth for Health Foundation, I'm watching what that organization is doing, trying to get great information to families and parents. The Council of Catholic preservation of life advocates for protecting children. You speak internationally on gender affirming therapy, gender ideology, COVID mRNA products and what sets doing for kids. But I'd like to start off with I always get to know people best when just share a little bit about your background. What led you to pediatrics What led you to critical care?

Monique Robles, MD  4:15  
Sure. So I grew up and a little rural replace and Texas there were four of us and children. And my oldest sibling and youngest sibling have Down syndrome. So yeah, so so really from the get go from the cradle, I guess is I understood what it means to be with someone who's different. So I originally when I was younger, wanted to be a veterinarian, so I guess medicine, right? Take your animals, and then I transitioned to maybe it'll be a physical therapist because

I had this I did athletics and I had this amazing physical therapist and just his example, was, in helping me through injuries was something I thought, wow, I could help people this way. So when I went to undergrad, it wasn't very long that I was like, Well, I'm just gonna go to medical school. Just keep going. So I went into medical school, I really can't recall Dr. Pol. Any other specialty other than pediatrics, whether, you know, a subspecialty of Pediatrics, but I should say any other field really, other than pediatrics. So I started my pediatric residency, thought I was going to do pediatric hematology oncology. I, there was something about really sick children that drew me. But at the end of my intern year, so my first year, I did my, that's when I did my pediatric critical care rotation. And I was like, you know, the, the lights went off. And I was like, I'm in my element. And I'm the only one who gets an adrenaline rush gets excited when the code pager goes off. Everybody else runs the other way. Something's wrong with me.

Dr. Paul  6:26  
Funny, I loved critical care, I would have done it except I knew I wanted a big family. And I just saw the lifestyle of the critical care Doc's I mean, you're you live at the hospital.

Monique Robles, MD  6:36  
Of course, I'm working some nights, some days and flip flopping all the time, right, but but when I was there, I was there. When I was home, I was home,

Dr. Paul  6:45  
and you're having siblings with Down's that just makes it clear to me why you might choose pediatrics, and also why you might choose ethics. What led you though, besides the obvious, were there any other issues that led you into the ethics part of your career?

Monique Robles, MD  7:01  
So I didn't go back and receive my degree in bioethics until after I'd been established in critical care. But it was one of those like, you know, sometimes it's not the the grandiose moments that are like, Oh, this is life changing? And now I need to do this? No, it's just this little thought of, you know, I think it would be better if you were able to articulate these situations, because I mean, obviously, in critical care you're dealing with, with very complex situations, oftentimes life and death decisions. How do I maintain my child in this chronic condition? You have discussions about withdrawal of life support. So I knew in my heart what to do, but sometimes articulating that is not always that easy. And so I thought, well, then I will go in and pursue this career and borrow at least this degree in bioethics, and it will only enhance me I'm not sure where it's gonna leave, but I think it will help me with my patient care and the families I take care of, and my decision making as well. So

Dr. Paul  8:21  
yeah, what would you say are the key ethical issues that we're facing today? Say, let's just go ahead and stick with pediatrics and sort of family dynamics or whatever?

Monique Robles, MD  8:32  
Absolutely. So I have seen and, and I think you would agree that over the past several years, I have seen a I don't want to call it a direct attack, what I see an agenda where parental rights are being chipped away parent has to ask earning the adolescent to see his or her records, get this, this child really doesn't even understand what's going on a good portion of the time. And the child is being taken care of by this parent or guardian, as well as the parent or guardian is the one paying for all of this medical or is ensuring all of the medical care. So I have seen that infringement on parent parental rights, becoming more of a bigger player sort of in the field of Pediatrics, which is very concerning.

Dr. Paul  9:36  
Yeah, absolutely. I was reading about a law just passed in California were in grade schools now all the way K through 12. The state is going to raise the children and make vaccine decisions and reproductive health decisions. It's like oh my goodness.

Monique Robles, MD  9:53  
And that that to me is is absolutely anti what our country has about We are either the parents and the and the home is the initial school, right is the primary, we are the primary educators of our children. And so I find that very concerning. And it's detrimental not only to family, but to children, too. It's a separation of the child from their home environment, which is mentally distressing.

Dr. Paul  10:28  
Absolutely. I'm curious, your organization that you're on the advisory board advocates for protecting children, does that deal with any of this?

Monique Robles, MD  10:37  
It deals with gender ideology, it's really an organization that goes up primarily against the gender industry and the attacks on our children. So

Dr. Paul  10:51  
yeah, elaborate a little bit for our audience. I know for some people, this gets controversial, but I mean, you you come from a pediatric background, you come from a caring family, a loving family that wasn't going to abort a Down's baby, obviously. So you have a deep love of life and humanity. I come from a missionary background. And, and so similarly, we have, we have some similarities and in just loving people and all that. But what's happened, and I'm sure you've seen it in your career, it feels like the last 1015 years. More and more adolescents, especially have this gender identity confusion. And man just wasn't seeing it the first 15 years of my career, but the last 15 It's like, exponentially it's exploding. What's going on?

Monique Robles, MD  11:53  
Yeah, so. So if we look at sort of the timeline of events, really the first gender ideology clinic opened in 2007, here in the United States. And this was a lot of this was already happening in the European, the Netherlands, and, but the idea of be having genders instead of and taking away that definition, true definition of sex was incorporated in 2007. And, initially, the the gender affirming therapy had basically three steps to puberty blockers, oh, let's give them time to decide. So we're going to halt puberty and let them consider what which, which way they're gonna go? Is it going to be male, female, or some spectrum in between. And then once that decision was made, then the next step was cross sex hormones, and then gender reassignment surgery. But as of, you know, in the past, probably decade or so I would say, there is now an initial step. That's been added social affirmation. And so social affirmation begins outside of the metal, out of metal, medical, the medical field. So we're seeing the initiation of this in preschools, kindergartens, schools. And so it's a child at a at a very young developmental age, who does not understand does understand the difference between boys and girls in a in a, in an in a normal IQ for that age. But still is, is in a developmental stage where they can go back and forth and play with different things. The concern though, now is that the, the ideologues have created even more rigid stereotypes. So if you're a little girl, let's say you're three or four, and you want to play with trucks, oh, you must be a boy. And vice versa. So they have actually made the stereotype so rigid, and then funneled these children and then just as we were talking, many parents don't know what's going on in the schools or don't know what's happening. When they're not in the presence of the educators, you know, I felt the calling because I was like, somebody's got to speak up for these children. This is absolute confusion. And I did start to see some I got to the point where I did see These adolescents in the ICU from from overdoses or suicidal attempts, because of lack of understanding who they are, and the lack of addressing from the medical personnel, the lack of addressing these individuals mental health problems, and their history of trauma and abuse. Yeah, it's,

Dr. Paul  15:32  
it's very concerning to me as well. It almost feels like when I read our literature, the pediatric literature, that the cool thing to do the right thing to do is to jump on this bandwagon. And that's the first sign of any kind of confusion, we've got to support them in their confusion. And I feel like we're not guiding them through in a very neutral way. It feels like almost our peers are, are pushing people towards. Yeah, you need to right. Or wrong on that? Or is that? Is that what

Monique Robles, MD  16:10  
you're saying? though? That's I mean, it's a it's a it's a political move. Right. And it's, I've we are we are, we are allowing, I don't say we as in you and I but in the med that professional medicine has been weaponized against children. from a political standpoint, and ideology standpoint, and we know that watch, and wait, let them progress, do not stall a child because then you further isolate that child, once you start puberty blockers, they're not going to catch up with their peers. So you've isolated them even further. Yep, agreed. And you've left them, you've actually abandoned them, and you've left them in a confused state. So,

Dr. Paul  17:04  
no, I absolutely agree. And then, you know, I only had one situation where a 16 year old was wanting surgery. And I was like, going to all lengths to just develop a relationship, let's just give this time see if you still feel that way, in a year or two. It just seemed like such a rush.

Monique Robles, MD  17:26  
Well, and it's, uh, you know, these are, these are truly forms of malpractice because you're performing surgical procedures. On healthy children, there's no pathology. Yeah, there's no, you know, pathology. And so there the the issues of of not being not having addressed the reasons as to why this individual has come to this point. That is sort of the atrocity of all of this is that you have not cared for the patient. You've just gone along with, with their misunderstanding who they are

Dr. Paul  18:10  
the classic label and treat that we do in medicine. Well, Dr. Monique, let's pivot to vaccines and COVID. Yes, we're both pediatricians. And our background is, you know, vaccines was the most important thing we could do, to, you know, boost immunity protect kids from vaccine preventable diseases. And I'm not saying that vaccines are good or bad. I'm just saying, traditionally, the pediatric community has been all on full court press, safe and effective. We don't look at any downside. It's all upside. Then comes COVID. And this vaccine that had never been done before, but just share with me a little of your history on vaccines, and then how you've dealt with COVID

Monique Robles, MD  19:03  
Sure, I think I'm, I agree with you, like most pediatricians, we have been taught this way. And we have been in full force for the vaccination schedule for the immunization schedule. And so the when COVID came about in these injections, I began to question I was like, wow, this is you know, it's it's mRNA is going around this technologies. You know, Malone has been working with it for few decades, but but we it never worked. It didn't work in the early 2000s. And so all of a sudden we're gonna develop these this these injections in a warp speed with not the usual multiple years of safety data and studies and we're going to Um, release this into a mass population event after, you know, two and a half months of trials. Yeah. And not, isn't it? It's not it's not like any other technology or any other vaccine that we give children. Hmm, big question mark, a big red flag goes up and I that this doesn't seem right, right? This where? Where is the ethics in this like, I'm so and the more I read, the more I looked at the possible and the potential consequences like not good consequences bad consequences of this technology being released into humans. It that's what spurred me to, to question more. These injections, the politicization of this, it's made me look at other vaccines and their histories. And many, much of the censored studies, the censored documentaries that have that, that we just didn't know about, or, or if you if you, you know, when you're in a busy career professional, you you go with what you're taught and trained. Yeah. And so now that I've now that I've been able to start looking back, it has made me question so much of what I have been taught and what I have advocated for, with the vaccination schedule.

Dr. Paul  21:49  
Yeah. Well, that's the gift of COVID, I think, is such a disastrous rollout of a dangerous product that has, and my assessment, and you can see if you feel the same way, but the risks are just so huge compared to the negligible benefits if there are any at all.

Monique Robles, MD  22:10  
Right. I just I don't see. Yes, absolutely. There's no benefits for children. There's absolutely, yes. What I say there's, there's no benefits, it's all risk. So why would you unleash these products on children,

Dr. Paul  22:26  
given that situation? And we'll have the fall is coming right in pediatrics, every fall, it's flu season. Gotta get your flu shot six months and above. And I won't be surprised if they're gonna push the COVID Jab, either make a combination flu COVID Or just so you need both. You need both. And they're gonna probably require it for schools in many places.

Monique Robles, MD  22:53  
Yeah. So that Yes. And and how can you? You know, it's interesting because they do the all these trials, but they didn't, you know, the placebo group was unblinded, so quickly. Sure, so there were there's a control group, and the group that received the COVID injections. What happened within gosh, probably within a couple of months, after the the trials took place, at least for the the 511 year olds, they were unblinded meaning they took the the the the basically the blindfold away from the individuals who are running the trials, and those who were in the placebo, or the the group not receiving the injection, were allowed to crossover and receive the injection and we're Yes, and we're, we're X actually encouraged to so. So we have no control group. And and there wasn't any control for what these injections were any potential side effects with other vaccines as these children were getting, especially when they were doing the trials in this six months to just under five years. So there are so many factors that weren't even looked at. And so for us to move forward, and it's still experimental. And to start giving it with it, yes. Yes. And it's it's sorry, it's it's experimental and still emergency use. So, to move forward and now, act as if, well, it's just going to become part of the mainstream schedule, and we're just going to inject these children with this and their flu shots are and all their other vaccinations really is asking for disaster.

Dr. Paul  25:09  
Yeah, it almost feels like true human experimentation. I mean, you're taking Healthy Kids and injecting them with a dangerous product, and we'll see what happens. It is. So, Dr. Monique, I'm gonna pick on your ethicist. kind heart background and help me out with something. I have a challenge talking to people in a convincing way to do what seems obvious to me. And my own mom says with this COVID thing when I'm trying to talk her out of it, basically, she goes, Well, Paul, how can you be right and everybody else is wrong? And don't you get that from parents and colleagues? What do you say to that? How do we talk to people? So maybe they can listen or hear?

Monique Robles, MD  26:00  
Yes. So first of all, Paul, I want to say, you've been you say you've been fighting it? I would say you've been critically thinking now going back to your question of how to how to address individuals who just don't see your PSA are difficult to, to, to speak with. I think people like like any of us, they want to be heard, right? Sometimes it's just listening, what is it, they're really thinking and I need to listen to their viewpoint, and then more will come out rather than me, shutting them down right away with what I know to be, you know, what I think and know to be true? Because they're not going to open up if I do not allow them that opportunity to bring their stance.

Dr. Paul  26:59  
Okay, so play along with me, I'm going to be your colleague and money guy to the test. I heard you've gone off the deep end. I mean, you should know better. You're an intensivist. You used to be the used to be chief resident. I mean, come on. What's What's this, you've gone on to these joint all these anti vaxxers? And you're talking about COVID? Dangerous? I mean, what what gives?

Monique Robles, MD  27:30  
Well, first of all, you said I've joined anti vaxxers. Why do you call me an anti Vaxxer?

Dr. Paul  27:36  
Well, I mean, anybody who doesn't know that vaccines are safe and effective. I mean, you you know, the WH o the World Health Organization, declared that, you know, vaccine hesitancy is one of the number one dangers in our world. And you seem to have become vaccine hesitant.

Monique Robles, MD  27:57  
So are you specifically speaking about the COVID vaccine?

Dr. Paul  28:03  
Well, in this instance, sure, because we haven't had a long enough conversation for me to pick your brain on some of the others.

Monique Robles, MD  28:11  
So do you think the current technology that's used in these products, the mRNA, the viral vector, these are similar to other vaccinations that I've been advocate for? In my career?

Dr. Paul  28:29  
Well know, we know this is this new and very, very sophisticated, deep science that we've been working on for decades. So yeah, absolutely. It is new, but new isn't necessarily worse. In fact, a lot of times it's better.

Monique Robles, MD  28:48  
Well, and how do you define a vaccine? If this is new technology, it should meet the requirements, the definition of a vaccine?

Dr. Paul  28:58  
Well, you know, a vaccine will enhance your immunity. And I clearly this is doing that.

Monique Robles, MD  29:09  
And it should stop transmission, right? Because that's the whole point, right? We don't want to spread the disease to to our neighbors, and and we want to end this pandemic. So it should stop the transmission to correct.

Dr. Paul  29:26  
If you had a perfect vaccine, sure. But you know, nothing's perfect. At least we're enhancing people's immunity and we're saving lives and you know, what we could have, we would have lost millions more probably if it hadn't been for this amazing technology.

Monique Robles, MD  29:44  
And do you agree that the vaccine should prevent the disease as well?

Dr. Paul  29:48  
That would be nice. I agree with you there.

Monique Robles, MD  29:52  
So unfortunately, these COVID injections, the mRNA the viral vector or vaccines have not or injections, I'm going to call them injections because they are not vaccines, they have not prevented transmission, even though the CDC touted, they would, and the FDA touted, they would and now they have, through the through time have had to backtrack because they don't, they have not prevented the disease. So individuals who have been boosted who have received multiple injections are faring worse than those who have not received and they have not prevented the spread. As you will see, the COVID continues.

Dr. Paul  30:46  
And thanks for playing along with me, Dr. Money guy. I could push harder, but that wouldn't be fair on you. I didn't give you any warning that I was going to torment you.

Monique Robles, MD  30:53  
That's okay. This is this is good. It says, you know, it's kind of like being in a court. You gotta you gotta be able to stand up for these.

Dr. Paul  31:02  
Yeah, it's it's honestly, it's, it's one of the hardest things I have is when I don't know, I think I have a glitch in my ability to just stay completely calm all the time under attack. Right. And you stayed calm beautifully. So

Monique Robles, MD  31:18  
maybe that's my little fine tune just from my experience in a in a critical care setting.

Dr. Paul  31:26  
Yeah. Now, have you personally faced any sort of pushback for your position on COVID?

Monique Robles, MD  31:35  
Yes, the policy of my institution was basically that everyone would be mandated to receive the COVID injection. And I did not comply with that policy, I was not going to get the injection based on my conscientious objection, which was my conscience was formed not only by my faith, but also by my experience and my research, that these were experimental products. And I'd already been taking care of kids for a year and a half into this pandemic. So I did did not receive the injection. And thus, I was terminated because of that decision. Knowing full well, the consequences. Yeah. I made that decision to not to not take to not take it, and then I wouldn't, I wouldn't have changed it look, looking back. I am 100%. Secure with with my decision. And especially now, you know, what, maybe a year later, so.

Dr. Paul  32:58  
So folks, if you work in critical care, you work in a hospital setting and to get fired? Like you can go open your own little critical care unit.

Monique Robles, MD  33:09  
Correct? Correct. I

Dr. Paul  33:11  
mean, that's a huge blow to your career. How, how have you? How have you dealt with that?

Monique Robles, MD  33:17  
So So I see sometimes when, when there's an abrupt change, that's because something greater is coming. So that's the way I've seen it. And so I, I have this great trust that God has this amazing plan. And I mean, it's already things are starting to unfold, I look like I'm getting to talk to you. I work with the truth for Health Foundation, which has been really on the front lines of of helping individuals receive early treatment, helping those who've been basically imprisoned in hospitals, helping families, helping the military. And, and, you know, with me being part of the pediatric forum them we've been able to reach out to parents to help give them the information that's that's often censored, or they haven't heard from their own providers.

Dr. Paul  34:24  
Thank you for your courage, and your faith. Wow, I just got a warm spot for you for sure. And such admiration as tough. You're young, you know, I started this fight in earnest. Further along in my career, so that knowing full well Vince knew what was going to happen which is happening. So I commend you for standing on your principles and doing what's right. We need more and more people like you. Were you in the ICU after kids we're starting to get the A COVID Jab Where are you, you got out just barely,

Monique Robles, MD  35:02  
just barely. So I the myocarditis wasn't necessarily hitting, I was hearing about it, and you know, individuals being transferred to, to certain to either to the floor. And there were some that that would be sent to the ICU. But when I was on service, I didn't have any specifically with it, although I've dealt with myocarditis, because I've worked in a full med surg cardiac unit. So but the, the amount of myocarditis that we're hearing now, I mean, it's just on the news all the time. Before then, you know, you it was rare to see it. And it was rare. Well, it was rare for me to see and I worked with, with cardiac patients, so

Dr. Paul  36:02  
anybody would have been you.

Monique Robles, MD  36:05  
And what I'm seeing now, or what I, what I foresee is that many of these children who will have received the injection will be asymptomatic. And potentially based on the studies, they will have no lab findings, no concern on echocardiogram, if the MRI, the cardiac MRI, is going to show either inflammation or scarring, that you're not going to pick up on screening test. And so there is a concern that we're going to have children who've received these injections that are healthy, asymptomatic who go out on the field? Yes, exactly. Yep. previously healthy see, and athletes who go out on the field, we're seeing that

Dr. Paul  37:03  
dropping dead sometimes

Monique Robles, MD  37:05  
without any signs or symptoms, which might have been picked up on a cardiac MRI, but to that, that's a big study to just perform. So it's the

Dr. Paul  37:21  
money or the will to do that investigation. Unfortunately, they're not even doing autopsies on these folks. It's just tragic.

Monique Robles, MD  37:30  
Right? Well, and I mean, it's put it's put providers, pediatricians and family physicians in a pickle, right. So now we're not going to advocate for the injections, but now we have to take care of these kids and and how do we know that? They don't have subclinical myocarditis? Yeah, they're, you know, if they're not

Dr. Paul  37:56  
testing,

Monique Robles, MD  37:58  
pick it up. Exactly.

Dr. Paul  38:00  
Yeah. No, it's a huge concern of mine as well. So what's your message to parents there? There's still Fortunately, a sizable number of children who have not yet succumb to getting this shot. This jab? What's your recommendation suggestion to parents?

Monique Robles, MD  38:21  
First, I commend those who have not taken their children to receive these injections. You are doing the right thing for your child, you are advocating for your child, the government will not advocate for your child, the CDC will not the FDA will not. You have you are the primary defender of your child. And so if you if you are on the fence, I plead with you to remain strong. These injections have proven no benef benefits, the trials show no benefit, actually, they show negative efficacy. And we are seeing a very great signal in adverse events and deaths related to these injections that the CDC and FDA have ignored and they are supposed to be the ones governing the and being the ones looking at all the various data and they have conveniently or conveniently ignore the data or just simply push it under the rug to continue with this with this agenda.

Dr. Paul  39:47  
Yeah. My assessment is that these three letter agencies are completely compromised. Yeah, they they. They have to be because I mean In the Name of public health, they are unleashing this most dangerous, untested product. And continuing to say, get it when we already know better,

Monique Robles, MD  40:13  
right? There. Public health is no longer trustworthy, are the institutions that that are deemed public health is not trustworthy? And so if you can't, if you've already shown that you can't be trusted, then how are you going to move forward with further products that your, quote regulating or advising, I mean, there it has created a world of skepticism, and rightfully so, like we should now. Now we know what we followed along with for for so long our eyes are being opened to, to the harm that it has been unleashed on humanity. And it's, it's, it's something that's greater than just than just the profession of medicine. It you know, there's, there's a greater realm that has, has taken over medicine. And in my, my hope is that we are able to usher in a new form of medicine, we were able to reclaim it and rebuild it. Where we were the individual person, mind body, spirit soul is, is taken care of. So that's, that's my hope.

Dr. Paul  41:50  
We will do it back to Monique, we will do it and you, you will be needed. Because I no longer am close enough to my residency to be able to run an ICU I just, it's too far behind me. I've been in the you know, clinical trenches doing ears, throats nose, you know, the basic stuff, you know that we will need your expertise. We're going to need a parallel system. I think the current system is so broken, we can't fix

Monique Robles, MD  42:20  
it. Yeah, right. Well, you know, the mantra, see one do one teach one. So, so you can do it.

Dr. Paul  42:30  
No, I could, I'll be I'll be there cheering you on for sure. And do whatever I can to make sure we we move towards the direction that we need to move those of us who are aware are becoming aware of this vitally important movement for mind body, spirit soul. And, you know, our eyes are being opened. And and thank you for your incredible stand and sacrifice and where can people go to get more information either about things that are important to you, or information that's important?

Monique Robles, MD  43:06  
Sure, sure. So I started a little website, where I've just written some articles for myself and for anybody who wants to read them on it's at WWE dot human dignity. speaks.com

Dr. Paul  43:20  
human dignity. speaks.com Very nice. And I know you're very involved with the truth for Health Foundation. And people can go to is that the name of their website as

Monique Robles, MD  43:32  
well? Yes, it's true for health dot I believe it's org.org. Okay, truth for health. Type in truth for health. You'll find it right.

Dr. Paul  43:41  
Yep. Perfect. Yeah, I did actually attend last week session with the cardiologist. Yeah, that was that was very, very powerful. Well, God bless you. Thank you so much for being on this show. Your your blessing the audience, and I can't thank you enough.

Monique Robles, MD  44:00  
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Dr. Paul  44:10  
Welcome, Bernadette, two against the wind is so good to have you back. You cover our B the news segment. And I am excited to hear what you're going to cover because you are going to take us back kind of take us to school on social marketing, how they manipulate us and cover this thing called the presumptive method which I've taught in some of the trainings for pediatricians. You just have to kind of figure out a way to avoid questions and just walk people into their vaccines without informed consent.

Bernadette Pajer  44:41  
Exactly. Yeah. And you know, this has been going on for years and organizations like informed choice Washington and others throughout the world have been trying to shine a spotlight on what's going on. So when public health is always used to a certain degree messaging put out out there, you know, roll up your sleeve and do it for whatever for, for various things. I mean, when we're talking about encouraging people to quit smoking, you know, seems like a good thing. But when you use the that same method of social marketing, and in today's world where social social marketing has such depth of reach, and they have such control of the message, it is really very concerning. And there are you can see here some titles of books that are published about it, you can get a degree in this University of Washington has courses that you can take on social marketing. So there's two posts on informed choice Washington, I encourage you to go look for look for the term like social marketing, and you will find them about these issues, it's really important to know that everything that you're seeing, like some of the cartoons that are out this one I'm I develop myself, that's kind of showing what we experience, you know, individuals are being screamed at saying, anyway. And then, like, go ahead,

Dr. Paul  46:14  
I was gonna say for COVID, I mean, you drive down the street, and you'll see a billboard, you know, safe and effective get your free shots here, that kind of thing.

Bernadette Pajer  46:22  
Yeah, it's it's app, we're saturated in it. Absolutely. And this is a billion dollar. I think that Biden administration has spent more than 2 billion with a B dollars, trying to overcome COVID 19 vaccine hesitancy, it's really concerning. So educate yourself on that on the history of that it's been going on since public health was really developed. But over the past few years, it's been on steroids. And it's it's really concerning, because it makes it very difficult to have two points of view. And so then I want to switch over though, to even older posts that I recently republished, actually, just this morning, because they're starting this again, and now we're getting to the presumptive method. So there's this gentleman, Dr. named Dr. Opal, who has been researching vaccine hesitancy for many years. He completely ignores the very important medical and scientific reasons and product failure reasons for many parents, who are either delaying spacing or saying no to all shots. No, he only looked at trying to figure out how to coerce them, although he says it's not coercion. To give you an idea, like here's a quote from one of his published papers, the appeals to emotion that are often made by a social marketing campaigns promotional strategy may leave some feeling that social marketing is coercive. And while coercion may not be all that bad, many argue that coercion is justifiable in vaccination programs, when others are placed at substantial risk of serious harm, or generally to control behaviors that are not only harmful, but simply wrong. We would argue that social marketing is not coercive. I mean, can you?

Dr. Paul  48:25  
Wow. So I am going to coerce you because I know best what's best for you and your child. And therefore I can do that we can bypass informed consent completely,

Bernadette Pajer  48:36  
completely. And now what is happening and soon there will be a third post about this topic on informed choice wall.org about the most recent efforts to use the presumptive method, and I'm going to have you explain that. to slip the COVID shot into return, routine usage, and my call to action is this. My call to action for everybody watching and listening to be in the news is, if your doctor attempts to integrate COVID shots into your routine care, I CWA informed choice Washington, I'm President, policy director for Informed Choice Washington, we highly recommend you fire him or her and provide them with the data on the shots they need to read as you walk out the door.

Dr. Paul  49:28  
Yep, absolutely. If you don't have a physician or provider who's providing you with informed consent, which means you have the choice, it has to include choice, then you don't have informed consent, and you didn't find another doctor, folks, it we're long past the time where a doctor knows best, especially when it comes to pharmaceutical products. No, just say no, no, I was trained on how to do this. So the thing is, if you get into a discussion with a patient, I'm a pediatrician. And mom starts could be dad oftentimes it's mom starts asking a bunch of questions. You lost the battle, they're going to want to go home and think about it. So you have to avoid questions is what we're taught. In other words to use this presumptive method, and it goes something like this. And my hands on the door, I'm about ready to leave. So you wait until it's time to kind of wrap up the visit. You've checked their ears and throat and listen to their heart and done all the voodoo stuff we do to, you know, make it look like we're real doctors. And we're doing an amazing job of making sure your baby your child is fine. And then Hallo. There's a well, Jaya, it's time for Johnny shots. I'm looking forward to seeing you in a couple months. And I'm walking out the door.

Bernadette Pajer  50:38  
Yeah, and you're saying that the nurse is on her way in to nurses

Dr. Paul  50:41  
on the way with the shots and so great to see you and you just do a little more niceties and, and butter him up and out you go. And most parents in that hit with that like deer in the headlights was so good to see you to Dr. Pol. And they forgot the fact that wait a minute, what shots and why and all the questions you came ready to ask, kind of get lost. That's that presumptive method, and it's highly effective. Now, those of you who've been following me for a while you also know and I know burned out, you know this, I make a lot of money when I can talk you into doing routine vaccines. And I'm gonna make more money by adding the COVID shot to the schedule. And I mean, I am in business, right? This is how doctors think. Actually, most doctors don't even realize how significant the income is from vaccines. They've been sort of taught that, oh, no, there's just a minor markup. That's true. The money comes from the admin fee. And Doc's don't know that I published a paper on that. It's massively lucrative more than half of a pediatricians income basically comes from well child visits and vaccines, you wouldn't survive without it.

Bernadette Pajer  51:50  
Yeah, and you figured out though, how to give fully informed consent, and, and ways to survive without it until, you know, the Orkin Medical Board decided to ask you to prove what you're doing is safe, and you did and they didn't like that.

Dr. Paul  52:08  
It is possible if you're a pediatrician or a physician, and you want to give true informed consent, it is possible to do that and still survive. Yes, you're gonna have to maybe work a little harder, yes, you might have to have some mid level providers who are helping you cut the cost of that, you know, overhead doctors cost a lot, I mean, just the hourly rate for a doctor's close to double that of a mid level. And yet, you know, I've got a great team here. I mean, they're better than I am. So you don't have to have an MD behind your name or a deal behind your name to give really good care. I'm not trying to put down those of us who went that route and got a lot of education. But you want people whose hearts are in the right place. Yes, think still are able to think critically look at the data and give true informed consent, which has to include the risks.

Bernadette Pajer  52:57  
Yeah, exactly. So there, there we are, there's the groundwork and everybody's got the good news is, is you just have to do this once, right? Or maybe twice, if you've got a couple of doctors, if everybody listening to your program ensured that the practitioners that they pay their money to are ethically aligned with them, we can change the system. So if you're still seeing a doctor that uses that, that coerces vaccinations in any way, you need to leave them, you need to focus your healthcare dollars towards those in the healthcare system who support your ethical and way of going and your approach to health care period. You can do it everybody can do this. So absolutely.

Dr. Paul  53:48  
I would just add this Thank you, Bernadette for that. Let's say you're all in on the vaccines, they should still be providing you with informed consent. And once you're given enough information, the problem is you're just not getting enough. You're getting a whitewash. Here's the this vaccine information sheet from the CDC, which just minimize the side effects maximizes benefit and leaves you going oh, well, yeah, of course, I want to do that.

Bernadette Pajer  54:13  
Right. What I have found when when they say they're gonna give you the risk benefit, they give the risk of the disease and the benefit of the vaccine. Yep. You're not getting you're not getting the benefits of experiencing, you know, any particular illness in early childhood. Right, you know, broader, durable, naturally acquired immunity, avoiding some cancers in the future, according to studies, you're not given any of that at all. And you're not told about alternatives. Right, you know,

Dr. Paul  54:44  
minimal risk of most of the diseases for which we have vaccines, you know, they're fall back on that. It's just well, you don't want to go back to the Dark Ages, do you? It's like, No, you know, we've made a whole lot of progress since then. We're not going back. Doesn't get this shot, right. Right now,

Bernadette Pajer  55:00  
now exactly, you know, you would think and 2022 that we would know what makes real health and we do, it's just real health doesn't make a lot of money for for certain individuals so

Dr. Paul  55:14  
wonderful. So folks avoid when you sniff out the presumptive method, you know, you're being taken along for a ride when they're just assuming that you're going to do something, but they're not really taking the time to give you the pros and the cons and the alternative, one of which is no, right. I don't want to do this. I need to think about it. And parents, that's your best opportunity for the easiest way to avoid being hoodwinked is just so you know, I need more information, I need to think about it. That way, you're not having to say no, and having this awkward tension, you just basically are saying no, I need more time, which you probably do.

Bernadette Pajer  55:50  
You can and I like that advice. Dr. Paul but Bernadette's a little bit more courageous, because we have got to flip the paradigm and has to be fully informed consent. And not vaccinating has got to be a valid, respected choice. So educate as you're on your way out the door.

Dr. Paul  56:11  
Absolutely agree. I only gave my little alternative approach if you don't know where you're going yet. You may not burn that bridge, on your way out the door. What if Johnny gets really ill tomorrow, but I agree with you find a provider who's aligned with your philosophy and your way of thinking and even if you can't find that at least they will honor your choices no matter what. Exactly. Thank you, Bernadette. Thank you

Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member support it we don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:05  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. Today's show I interview my good friend and co author for both those books behind me, Jennifer Margulis. She is an award winning journalist. She's an incredible author, an incredible human being. She left Ashland, Oregon, her dream town, we want to know why. So we talked about that what's going on in our country? What's going on with liberals? I mean, she and I were both very liberal Democrats, something has changed with what's this about all this fear? What happened to rational thinking, we kick this all around, there's an Africa advantage Did you know we're going to talk about that countries are compensating people for COVID vaccine injuries. And really, we talked about that. We talked about pollution, body burden, toxins, and what five things you can do to improve your health and wellness. The show ends with a bernadett segment about polio, you've probably heard about polio in the sewage in New York. Well, we're gonna kick that around and give you some resources. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. Today, I wanted to talk about joy and unconditional love. This past weekend, I was at the Oregon coast, I had an incredible opportunity to watch a couple kids, two and five years old, while the parents took a lunch of much needed break. And we were right at the beach sand along one side. And a little stream was coming in creating a pool that was maybe Oh, size of a very tiny swimming pool about a foot deep at the deepest point. And then a wall of rocks on one side. And the joy of these kids getting wet, moving sand building rock piles, covering the rock piles with water, and then washing them off with buckets of water, and then smearing the rocks with sand and then washing the sand off the rocks. It was just incredible. And I was reminded about that childlike joy of just being in the moment. I think when we grow up, we become adults, we become so preoccupied with all the demands of life, we forget to do that. So just enjoy the moment every chance you get. Now I want to talk a little bit about unconditional love as well. Here's the thing. I know, I've let people down in the past. I know I'm going to let people down again in the future. Oh, if I could just love unconditionally all the time. Wouldn't that be nice? Or really only God has that kind of power, right? Who can do that never let you down. I need forgiveness daily. So if I can live that way, and choose to love and choose to forgive everything, and everybody. That's the way to live telling you. That's the world I want to live in. And I want to thank all of you, each and every one of you for the love and kindness. You've shown me through support, and everything else prayer that I know so many have given and sent my way. I want to send it back your way. Thank you.

Welcome Dr. Jennifer Margulis. It is such a privilege to have you back on against the wind.

Jennifer Margulis  3:07  
So nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Paul  3:10  
Well, people who don't know you should know that you are an award winning journalist, international speaker. And most importantly, for me, you are an author and amazing author. You've written multiple published lots of books, but the ones that I'm especially fond of are a couple that we wrote together the addiction spectrum, a compassionate, holistic approach to recovery. And then the famous or infamous, the vaccine friendly plan, Dr. Paul's safe and effective approach to immunity, and how from pregnancy through your child's teen years. You also authored a couple of really big books for the family's health, pregnancy and babies, your baby your way taking charge of your pregnancy, childbirth and parenting decisions for a happier, healthier family. That's a really great book folks. And your famous book, the business of baby that was sort of a shocker for the world, I think. And I know you've written many more. So it's a real privilege to have you on the show.

Jennifer Margulis  4:08  
I'm really glad to be here.

Dr. Paul  4:10  
I'm going to take our audience through a big journey because I'm going to pick your brain you're one of the smartest people I know. We're going to talk about why you left Oregon you had researched and found Ashland, Oregon as your dream town. And now you're gone. We're going to talk about what's going on with our Democratic Party or the liberal movement within our country that both you and I were a part of. What's the Africa advantage that that right there behind me? That's Zimbabwe. I grew up in Africa. So I'm curious you've got an interesting take on that. And then we Yeah, we're gonna hit some other topics as well. But let's start off with Why did you leave Ashland, Oregon, the town that you researched and decided was where you wanted to be and raise your family? Oh,

Jennifer Margulis  4:53  
god, that's a sad question. Um, you know, the whole West Coast has been really I'm having a lot of problems both physical, emotional and mental, I would say. So we moved to Ashland because it was such a healthy place to live. There's beautiful nature and a wonderful thriving Food Cooperative. And then two and a half years ago when COVID hit for some reason the people in Oregon in general, and an Ashton in particular, got so tremendously afraid. And the way that their fear manifested itself was to really be hateful to each other, in a way I'd never seen before Paul, and neighbors stopped talking to each other, they stopped socializing, they, you know, they stood six feet apart. There were these huge placards when you drove down the highway saying, Have you inadvertently killed someone today, they didn't use the word button, they said mistakenly killed someone today, there was a huge amount of shaming going on. There was this idea that if you didn't stay home, refuse to ever smile at a new one refuse to touch anyone refuse to hug that you were somehow an assassin. And that was literally the message that we were getting an eye it was really hard for me, I'm an extrovert. In an introverts job, you know, I spend my days, I interview people that I spend my days in front of a computer writing a lot of the time. And so to have the level of shaming going on in the state, and especially in our town, made it really, really hard for my mental and physical well being. And then, as you know, the West Coast has been on fire, or having a lot of the wildfires just started again in Ashland. And you know, we're just having a lot of trouble with climate change, or whatever you want to call it. So it means that, you know, the temperatures are getting up to 110 degrees and Ashland, and there's smoke in the air sort of choking and cleaning people. So the healthiest place that I had been able to find in America became the most unhealthy. So yeah, we have temporarily left.

Dr. Paul  7:09  
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, that shaming business. And what's happened, I've witnessed it as as a pediatrician with a large practice, I mean, have kids who won't take their masks off for anything. I mean, there that you'll hear this statement, I've heard kids say, Well, I don't want to kill my grandma. I mean, to put that in a little kid's mind that and that's some of the messaging that are unfortunately our children have been given so

Jennifer Margulis  7:34  
effective that you hear them repeating these little sound bites little, you know, pharmaceutical government sound bites, and it you know, the rest of the world didn't respond this way. I mean, people say like, oh, it happened everywhere. But it's really interesting how places where people still had family gatherings and still had weddings and held each other's hands when they were sick. Didn't have worse outcomes than places like Oregon that, you know, shot down in, in the most draconian ways.

Dr. Paul  8:04  
Yeah. So that was certainly my experience. I know you've traveled the country speaking as well, we've, we've been the other states. Even during the pandemic, when Oregon and California and Washington, the west coast was just shut down. There was a lot of freedom and other places. What's it like where you live now, just to contrast where you came from, and where you are now. I see you look healthy. You're smiling. You seem happy?

Jennifer Margulis  8:28  
Thanks. Well, so we moved to the Carolinas, I don't want to say specifically where because I feel like we should keep the well kept secrets. But I like you, I had looked at a lot of places North Dakota, South Dakota, I had been in the Carolinas, I also went to Florida. And it was really interesting to see how like you said things were different other places, especially Florida, you know, was really open, especially in the more conservative areas, which is so interesting and kind of ironic, in some ways, right? But where we are now Pete, there's a culture of kindness and friendliness, and people have much more of the attitude like you do you and I'll do me, I'll support you, you support me or we won't talk about it. So you know, there's a because I'm in the south now our families on a on a temporary move. We don't know if this is going to be permanent full disclosure, because we're not all on the same page about it, Dr. Paul, but you know, but because we're in the Carolinas and there's this culture of friendliness, you always say How y'all doing? Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, sir. No, ma'am. No, sir. Like, it's just a different idea. And interestingly, I know that underneath the surface, there's some tension. But what's really wonderful about where we live is you can't actually drive down the highway without seeing a billboard that tells you about someone who's promoting medical freedom, a politician perhaps or the latest various data. That's the vaccine adverse events. Reporting System, and the number of total deaths being reported post COVID vaccination. So I am definitely in a place where people care about each other and care about medical freedom.

Dr. Paul  10:11  
Oh, that that's got to be exciting and refreshing compared to where we are here in Oregon. What do you think's going on? I just I know you come from that liberal background as I did, my parents were missionaries. And we always were fighting for the underdogs and the people who are disadvantaged. And it felt back when you and I were younger, or just even three years ago that the Democratic Party and liberals in general, we're most open minded to helping others and not selling out to big business, if you will. Yeah, nothing changed. What What the heck is going on? What's your take on it?

Jennifer Margulis  10:48  
Well, that's absolutely no longer the case, because liberals still consider themselves open minded and wanting to defend the underdog unless the underdog doesn't follow the Biden democratic narrative. So remember, when Joseph Biden said, if you don't vote for me, you're not black? Do you remember him saying that? Basically, he said, all black people will only vote for Biden, I'm the party of you know, African Americans, which is absolutely untrue. Because if you're African American, and you choose not to get the COVID vaccine, all of a sudden, you are ostracized, vilified, and, you know, considered a horrible person. And that is true. If you are disabled, and you can't wear a mask, then all of a sudden, you're canceled from society. And I have to tell you, Paul, the people doing the canceling are the so called open minded liberals, not people who are more conservative who value family and tradition who tend to be more of a religious bent. Why this is happening is kind of astounding to me that the theoretical narrative is that we have to care about each other and each other's health. And I, you know, how much I believe that is true. And I, you know, I spend a lot of time promoting the best health practices and trying to inspire people to be more vibrant and more active and take control of their health. And, you know, but the idea that the Democrats had, that the only way to be healthy was to stay apart, stay masked, and then to get vaccinated with an experimental vaccine that has been such an unbelievable boon to the pharmaceutical industry is, is simply I want to say it's crazy, but it's, you know, it's so completely misguided. So what we have now is we have a Democratic Party that basically is in the pocket of the pharmaceutical industry, and everything that comes out of people's mouths these days, tends to be a PR talking point, it's very well framed, it's very articulate, it's very well put, it sounds so convincing, and when you actually unpack it, you realize that what they're saying is pure propaganda, to help big business make big money.

Dr. Paul  13:02  
How did we and I'm saying we, the Liberal Democrats get so duped What the heck,

Jennifer Margulis  13:08  
I don't know. But I will say that I've been in a lot of situations I just gave a talk last last Saturday in Ashland, Oregon, and I was sitting at a table with 10 other people, several of whom are the speakers, including Naomi Wolf, who was always identified as a Democrat, a progressive, liberal Democrat. And every single one of us sort of raised our hands and said, Yeah, we used to be Democrats. So you know, it's not true. I mean, you can have progressive values, you can care deeply about the environment, you can care deeply about people's health and you can realize that not the Democrats are no longer your party. I think that maybe we have to do things ala carte kind of pick and choose. But I will say that I am so much more aligned with more conservative thinkers. And part of the reason why I think is because they really understand that freedom is a fundamental American value. And it's just like freedom of speech, you have to be willing to defend speech you disagree with, because the idea is that it's more important to have freedom of speech than to have everybody in an echo chamber everybody doing groupthink. And that is the case with medical freedom as well. So if you are going to, you know, if you're gonna say my body my choice that has to also pertain to whether or not you accept vaccines to whether or not you accept other pharmaceutical products.

Dr. Paul  14:27  
Yeah, it's, it's so baffling to me. We are born if you live in this country, at least it used to be that you're born free. I mean, you know, there's the Iron Curtain, for example, how it used to be, I mean, barbed wire. You know, in closures, I mean, it. There was such a lack of freedom in some communist countries, for example, in the US always represented this incredible freedom and it feels like all of a sudden In over COVID were just, well, somehow public health authorities have, through this emergency mandate process taking become all powerful like dictators.

Jennifer Margulis  15:12  
It's terrible and it's so pernicious. And it's so it's so wrong. And it's and what has happened is it has led to the unnecessary death of 10s of 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people because remember very early on any doctor who wanted to treat COVID, whether with repurposed drugs, which is what we do when we have something novel come into the into circulation or with natural remedies, they were actually witch hunted by the Department of Justice, and each different state and Department of Health witch hunts against these doctors. I have an article that you might remember that's on my website about natural treatments for Coronavirus that actually work well, that article was co written by three doctors, different kinds of providers who were seeing wonderful outcomes with early intervention with natural treatments. When they told their patients about it just in private emails that weren't even going onto websites. They were actually sent cease and desist letters by the Department of Health. So we had a situation that Peter McCullough testified in front, Dr. Peter McCullough, the renowned, internationally renowned, well published cardiologist testified in front of the Texas Senate and he said, quote, we have lost compassion in medicine, we must treat people we can't tell people that if they have COVID, this is a death sentence. And, you know, all of this was done, because I believe, if we had shown that these early treatments were highly effective, which of course, they were, if we had shown that COVID was only going to be really, really troublesome for people who like who had coexisting, you know, for the vast majority not that's not true for everyone. But for people who had comorbidities we call them, right. Yeah, existing, you know, problems with their health. And if we showed that for the very, very vast majority of everyone else COVID was, it could have been difficult, but you were going to recover from it without having long term Sequoia, all of that if we had shown that at the beginning, we would not have been able to get emergency use Austin authorization for the vaccines. And we wouldn't have minted all of these billionaires. I mean, if you go look on Forbes, we have so many new billionaires, thanks to this whole, you know, COVID crisis that was largely manmade and fabricated. But so many people have gotten so rich off of other people's terror about their health.

Dr. Paul  17:46  
Yeah, and so many people unfortunately harmed by this so called vaccine that's not working at all like a vaccine. It's it's genetic modification. It's gene manipulation. That technology that mRNA technology showed a lot of promise for, say, cancers, where you could maybe go in and fix something that needed to be fixed, but this mass rollout of this technology the way they did, I mean, it's been a disaster, hasn't it?

Jennifer Margulis  18:15  
It's been a complete and total disaster. So I spent the morning on the phone with a 6869 year old man who's based in Minnesota, so he was a dentist in the health care profession. He was very eager to get his Pfizer vaccines, he got two of them, he encouraged his staff to do the same. Didn't seem to have any trouble with it got his third Pfizer vaccine meaning so they're calling those boosters, right. So the thing is not working once, twice, not working three times are now telling everybody they need to get four shots. So the two boosters when you hear the word booster, what you really mean is try again because it failed. So he went and he got his third Pfizer vaccine, and after that vaccine, he got the worst cough he had ever had in his life and he had terrible chest pain. And he ended up going to urgent care. He of course landed in the hospital. It turned out he had a pulmonary embolism. And, you know, he was a healthy guy going hiking, he loved to dance. He was a very successful dentist with a thriving practice. Well, he has had so many problems post COVID vaccine, the third shot, he's also had COVID twice that he had to sell his practice he can no longer do any physical activity and he is basically beside himself because he's had two major surgeries. Now he had a pulmonary embolism that was so bad. He's lucky he didn't die, but he broke several of his ribs from the coughing. They went in to fix the broken ribs. And then now he has a hernia in his lung like, you know, in his chest cavity. And so he's just having problem after problem after problem. And I said to him, you know, was it a question for you to get the vaccine and he said no, you know, he had his someone in his family had died from COVID, which likely they died from medical Well mismanagement of COVID which is a whole other conversation, but he felt like as a health care professional as a dentist he had to do to get the vaccine but he reached out to me because he wanted to talk about vit vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia, which is now which I was writing an article about. So his timing was perfect. And I have now looked at the current medical literature. Dr. Pol, we have almost 12 articles that show without a shadow of a doubt that this, these pulmonary embolisms are connected to the COVID-19 vaccines. This man is 68. But we are seeing people drop dead from pulmonary embolisms, after the vaccines who are in their 20s and 30s and 40s. These are absolutely not age appropriate deaths. And yes, these vaccines are a disaster.

Dr. Paul  20:56  
Yeah. Wow. So what's the Africa advantage?

Jennifer Margulis  21:02  
Well, so I wrote an article, I worked for the epic times, and I write health articles. And I'm co writing articles now with a molecular geneticist named Joe Wang. So Dr. Wang is actually someone who has worked on the development of SARS vaccines. Interestingly, he was a lead developer, figured out that we could not get a safe and effective vaccine against SARS, this was in the early 2000s. And he himself, Dr. Weighing had felt that he had no choice. And he did get the first two COVID shots. And so he's somebody who's very interesting to be co authoring things with because he's got that really detailed understanding of the biochemistry. But anyway, Joe Wang and I wrote an article called The Africa advantage, because it's fascinating. If you look at the maps from the World Health Organization, you know, you see all of these countries with a long lines with, you know, deaths and cases of COVID vaccination. And then you got Africa down here with just a little teeny tiny, and I interviewed a translator whose name is Ilya Tsui Brahim, who said, he just started laughing. And he said, we don't have COVID. In Niger. Obviously, Africa is a huge continent, right? Like about continents, but in Niger and West Africa, he said, we consider it like a small, cold. So the question is, in a country that is a continent, right, that's besieged with all sorts of difficult health problems, as you and I both know, and as we both experienced, probably firsthand, I don't know if you've had like Schistosomiasis or amoebas. Or, you know, giardia, I mean, there's all sorts of wonderful illnesses you can pick up in Africa, right. But you would expect the opposite you would expect in a, in a place where there's a lot of impoverished people where they might not be getting enough adequate nutrition, you would expect that they would have been devastated by COVID, we would have seen huge infection rates and huge numbers of deaths. That is absolutely not what we have seen, basically, throughout the entire continent of Africa.

Dr. Paul  23:04  
So why, what's your what's your hypothesis? I have a few of my own. But I'm curious. You've done the research. What Why do you think that that's the case?

Jennifer Margulis  23:14  
Well, I would love to hear yours as well, because obviously, these are open questions that we have to continue looking at. So I mean, what I can tell you, it's just so interesting. There's so many reasons, right? But But while we there, the obvious one is that that doesn't explain the advantage, but is that people aren't giving aren't keeping as good statistics in these countries, right? So people who want to dismiss it say, Oh, well, it's just because they're not counting them? Well, we would see if we were having excess deaths from COVID. So I don't actually think that that argument is very valid. But one of the things that we know is that a diverse microbiome is incredibly helpful to human health. And so two things, diverse microbiome and access to vitamin D. Now you and I argue about this, because I believe that it's better to get vitamin D through sunlight. And I know that it's very hard to do when you're in a northern latitude, like Portland, Oregon. And so I know that you recommend vitamin D supplementation, which is something we write about in our book, right. But the fact of the matter is that when we look at the COVID statistics about people who aren't doing well, one of the things that we see is that if you have sub optimal vitamin D levels, you tend to have a worse infection. We also know and there's been several fascinating articles about this, Dr. Paul, I don't know if you've had a chance to look at them. But we know that people in Africa who are in who have very, very, what's the word sort of complicated, diverse, you teaming microbiomes, meaning that they're cohabitating with microbes, beneficial bacteria, but also cohabitating with helmets, which are beneficial worms, and I know this is a stretch for some people But we know that they tend to have less reactive immune systems. And what's interesting about this whole COVID virus is that what seems to cause severe COVID is not necessarily the virus, but you're very overblown reaction to the virus, right? So it's your immune system. It's what we've heard of people talking about the cytokine. Storm. So I have another article on the epic times asking the question, Why is COVID so severe? And it looks like it's severe because your immune system kind of goes crazy out of whack? So one theory about what's going on in Africa is that people have immune systems that aren't going to sort of go crazy like that. So they're not necessarily which and then their microbiome is the diversity of their microbiomes may be protecting them from getting it even in the first place or having a symptomatic case. There are a lot more reasons. But why don't you say some of what you think is going on?

Dr. Paul  25:56  
Well, no, I think what you bring up is super important. We because we know the natural immune system, the innate immune system, you the T cell arm of it, which is not your antibody production, it's just this other arm of immunity for COVID For novel viruses for something new that your body's never seen. That's the arm of the immune system that keeps you safe, and you only kick into antibodies as a last resort. And I think, you know, Africans who have like you said, they're, they're having Gosh, you go to village life where I grew up, I mean, you know, we're just eating with the flies and in the dirt. And you know, that that movie babies that showed baby sitting in the dirt in I think it was Africa and Mongolia and and those babies did as well or better than the yuppie San Francisco baby in the highchair with all the, you know, highly processed and sterilized food. The other thing I've wondered about, though, is many countries in Africa are are using prophylactically, either hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin. And that actually, I mean, there's plenty of research showing that that's protective.

Jennifer Margulis  27:10  
So that was something else that we mentioned. It's interesting. You mentioned ivermectin in the article that I wrote the Africa advantage, because so ivermectin I'm sure that your viewers already know this, but it's a it's a drug that's been used. It was the reason why people got a Nobel Prize in in 2015. But it's been used to treat river blindness. And it's interesting because the mainstream media in America has called it horse paste, and said that it's absolutely dangerous and you shouldn't use it. But we actually know when Donald Trump got COVID. Before there was a vaccine, right, he used ivermectin as one of his treatments. And we know that people who get early intervention with ivermectin tend to do really well. So people are often taking it as an anti parasitic, right. So that is interesting. And then that, and then the hydroxychloroquine. I actually didn't we didn't include that in the article. But I had looked a little bit at that data. There's more research to do there. But it's interesting, because I did have a lot of readers get in touch with me afterwards and say, Why didn't you talk about the anti malarial as well, those are quinine drugs. The fact is that we have in the tonic water, people have quinine, and then I correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that hydroxychloroquine is also what Chloroquine it's, it's another quinine derived drug. And it seems like so those are used as anti malarial drugs, right? And it seems like those are also maybe helpful and protective. There's something else which I really should have said at first, which is that most places except in the in the very modernized cities in Africa, people did not mask they did not social distance, they did not stop being in society and community and with their loved ones. And I have to say that I believe that that is one of the reasons why Africa has had a better outcome than Europe and America. And I say that because now all of the research is coming out. You can hear it on National Public Radio about how if you are depressed, if you are alone, if you are suffering mentally, if you have a huge amount of stress in your life, you're one of the people who always says stress is a toxin that you're actually your body is not going to be able to fight off disease as well. So you know, no one. In these African countries people weren't being terrified. They weren't being accused of being murderers. They weren't being told that they couldn't love each other hug grandma. They weren't, you know, being put in masks and dehumanized. And I actually believe, Paul, and you tell me what you think that ironically, those the fact that they did not do that kind of draconian public health is actually was a huge benefit to the African countries?

Dr. Paul  30:02  
Yeah, I absolutely agree with you fear is a liar. Fear is the killer. Because it messes with your immune system, when you're in a fearful state, you're in fight or flight, this is not where your immune system is, is at its optimum. In fact, it really harms the immune system. So nothing worse than create this excess of fear, and then lock people down and isolate them, we need community. I wonder, have you looked into one other thought that occurs to me, and that is, I would suspect that the continent of Africa is less vaccinated than, for example, the Americas and Europe. And what we've certainly come to find out now is that the COVID jabs, I don't like to even call them vaccines do harm the immune system, so actually end up making you more vulnerable to infection from COVID? What's your take on that?

Jennifer Margulis  30:58  
Yeah, no, I mean, we have quite a bit of new data that's coming out right now. And it's buried in the scientific literature, it's very hard to understand, but it's showing just that it's showing that the more vaccinated you are, the more likely you are to get and spread COVID, whether you're going to have you know, as as difficult a case with it is still an open question. So a lot of times in these articles, it says, but it's mild, you know, although then they talk about people being hospitalized and people being on ventilators. And, in fact, the man that I was talking about this morning, who I interviewed for an article about vaccine induced thrombocytopenia, he was telling me that he's COVID positive as we speak, he's actually had COVID twice. So he's had three vaccines, and now he's had two COVID infections. And the people that I spoke with who I interviewed who live in an asiair, told me that they wouldn't be interested in having a vaccine because it just seems like it's profit for the pharmaceutical industry. You know, that said, there are these huge vaccination campaigns in West Africa and elsewhere, of course, but every country is different. And whether or not people are actually getting vaccines against all of the childhood illnesses, or the adult illnesses, or whatever it is a question, but I do think that ironically, vaccines are supposed to help us. They're supposed to be beneficial, you and I wrote a book called The vaccine friendly plan. You know, I chose to vaccinate my kids and you used to, or maybe you still do give vaccines in your office every day. But that doesn't mean that just because something works, in some instances that you need to keep doing it and doing it and doing it. And like you said, these, you're not even calling them vaccines, because they're using a whole different kind of technique and a whole different technology. And it seems that the COVID vaccines have actually made things worse. So if we could rewind history, and go back two and a half years ago, and not shut down society and not rush to develop vaccines, but actually figure out what drugs would work and what natural remedies would work, I put it to you that we would have seen. We would have seen maybe millions fewer people get sick and die.

Dr. Paul  33:13  
Yeah, absolutely no, no question about it. The data is coming in strong that this has been a disaster. And yet this is the baffling I mean, it just blows my mind. Most of our captured agencies, the CDC, the NIH, the Academy of Pediatrics, the AAP, the AMA, the American Medical Association, they're still beating the drum of get more vaccines, get more vaccines, and get people prepared for the next big thing. It's going to be monkey pox. It looks like he's going to be there next tactic, which is, oh, we don't have time to get into that one today. I would like to have us before I let you go, because there's so many good things we can talk about. You've written about saving the original organic humans, and I think it kind of you can dovetail between fertility and fertility and that topic of you know, what's happening to our human race?

Jennifer Margulis  34:10  
Yeah, well, I mean, if you want to save the original organic humans, you have to make judicious choices about vaccines. And one of the most judicious choices I would say is to delay vaccination. And if you choose to delay vaccination indefinitely, then you may have made the most judicious choice of all so I

Dr. Paul  34:31  
just came out of your mouth.

Jennifer Margulis  34:35  
I was on I knew I was on a panel with Naomi Wolf I mentioned before public scholar and I read her stuff when I was in college. She wrote a wonderful book called The beauty myth and she wrote a book about pregnancy and childbirth called misconceptions are both excellent books and, and she, my son came afterwards so there was about 150 people came to this talk and there were three medical Have two MDS who spoke and then a naturopath. And then Dr. Stephanie Senath, who you know, who is an MIT senior scientist, and Naomi and I were all in this in this conference together, which is when we were talking about saving the original organic humans. But anyway, afterwards Dr. Weil got a chance to meet my son, and she came up to me and she said, Oh, my God, Jennifer, I'm not trying to be creepy or anything. But isn't that what an unvaccinated healthy young man looks like in this world, and my son has actually had vaccines. So I didn't want to like Buster Bella was she's never thought about these issues. Before. She hasn't. She's been very vocal against the current COVID vaccines. But, you know, she just saw a well spoken, obviously glowing with good health, almost organic human. And she was very impressed. But more to the point is, I actually talked about you and your research and your practice, because what I asked the, what I said to the people at this conference was, we have these pediatric practices where people are integrating integrative doctors are taking the best of Western medicine and the best of other modalities and having these wonderful outcomes in their practices. So you would think that every regulatory agency on the planet, every medical doctor, every health care practitioner, would be flocking to people like you Dr. Paul and to Dr. Cami Benton, who's based in North Carolina and Dr. Cornelia Franz, who's based in Florida, and James Neuenschwander, who is based in Michigan like these, Larry Polewski, who's based in New York, you would think that they would be flocking to these places to find out what are you doing? What are you recommending? Why do you have such good outcomes among your children and your practices. And instead, of course, the medical boards are trying to shut down every doctor who has better outcomes. So instead of actually looking at it, and researching it, and thinking about it, and analyzing it, they're trying to shut us all up, and the we're not going away, they can't shut us up. And we are going to be shouting it from the rooftops about the kinds of things you can do to really, really, really help your health. And there are so many, the only problem is they're not very monetizable. They don't usually come in the form of a pill or a syringe or a bottle. So the kinds of things that we have to do to save the natural organic humans are, avoid the toxins and embrace the healthy lifestyle, you know, components? And do you want to talk more about that? Or?

Dr. Paul  37:41  
Yeah, your let's segue right into that. Because folks, we always end most of these shows, I want to leave you with something that you can take home and go yes, this, I'm going to implement this thing, this one thing, Jennifer is probably going to give you four or five or six or seven things. But yeah, you and I have talked a lot about this. I I'd like to hear from your lips, you do this amazing research, one of the folks who don't know, Jennifer, as my co author, she was so meticulous on fact checking. And then you actually hired an outside expert to go and look at all our references to make sure that they were appropriately used. I mean, you are meticulous researcher so but let's just hit the nitty gritty, what are the key things we can do to help ourselves? live a healthy life become a more organic human, as you put it?

Jennifer Margulis  38:34  
Okay, well, so the first one, and it's so obvious, but it's actually the hardest is that we have to eat real food. And as much as people can roll their eyes now and be like, Yeah, of course, I eat food, the vast majority of Americans are not eating food. We are eating edible food like substances, Paul, and we're not eating them the way we should be meaning sitting down with a friend or with a partner or with your family and actually taking your time and enjoying your meal. So, you know, we have to eat organic food. And I know I'm living in the South. Now I know how hard it is to find it. And I know how hard it is to afford and you have lots and lots of people in your practice who are not elite people who are not high income people. And we have this idea that organic food is only for people with a lot of money. Well, the good news is, is that almost every supermarket chain in America is now providing affordable organic foods so you can actually find it. And you know, the other good news is that it doesn't have to be certified organic. If you go right to a grower if you go to the farmers market and your town and I live in a teeny tiny town now we have a wonderful farmers market. You can go and ask those farmers. are you spraying your crops? Are you using glyphosate and if they say no but we can't afford to be certified organic you just buy up that stuff.

Dr. Paul  39:53  
The other on the on that food sorry to interrupt you. I wish I had a dad in my practice this past week I spent an hour We're talking to him. I just was fascinated. I mean, he's got she's got two young babies. So he must be in his late 20s, early 30s. He is starting has already started to small organic farms. And he is his goal and mission is to teach others how to farm. I mean, it's a lost art. And we've been reading about Bill Gates buying up farmland, folks, we're gonna have to learn ourselves how to, you know, initially, maybe it's a tiny garden. That's all I have right now. But eventually, we have to learn how to produce our own food.

Jennifer Margulis  40:35  
Absolutely. And if we do that, in communities and neighborhoods, I encourage everyone to look up Zen Honeycutt, because she's got this wonderful idea about you know, how you have neighborhood CrimeWatch. She wants to have neighborhood food availability, basically. So she's, you know, she was inspired by one person who has a lemon tree can feed What do you know, 2535 families, but they can't eat all those lemons themselves. So her idea is that we get different people to grow different things. And then we share. I mean, that goes back to the community aspect of life, which is so important for humans, which is part of why the Africans had the advantage. But it's funny, because honestly, Dr. Sid Baker is the one who said this to me that it's harder to get people to change their eating habits than it is to get them to change their religion. And I think that's true. You know, it was hard. I was very resistant to the idea of buying organic. I had a, you know, parents who said, Oh, it doesn't matter, why would you waste your money on that? And it was actually thanks to my husband who said, Wait a second, you know, if you're going to be if you can afford to go out to eat, you can afford to buy organic food, or if you, you know, how about you don't buy yourself that, you know, new outfit you wanted and instead you eat right? Because if you don't pay for it now, you will pay for it later. And that's something well put hard to hear. You know? Yeah. So,

Dr. Paul  41:59  
yeah. Okay, so we started with number one, folks, we're going to eat real food.

Jennifer Margulis  42:04  
Number two, let's just keep going on that theme is that we talked earlier about a diverse microbiome, and I'm actually surprised to how many people don't know that word microbiome. I know that your listeners and viewers are very sophisticated. But people don't realize that we cohabitate with beneficial bacteria, right? And we actually have all sorts of other things on us that are not even microscopic. So some people call it the biome, not the microbiome, because there's certain things like, at night, more than 90% of people have dust have faced mites that come out, and they eat your, the oil on your face. Mm hmm. But you know, we think that that might be some, we think, Oh, God, that's so gross. It's so horrible. But it turns out that we actually cohabitate with these critters. So also on your eyes, in your eyebrows, and in your eyelashes. And so what can you do to diversify your microbiome, one of the things you have to do is not be so clean. So I said it, you know, another thing that they did not have in Africa was hand sanitizer, nobody was sanitizing their hands. And when we use things that kill microbes, we also kill all of the beneficial, you know, hitchhikers on our bodies. So you don't want to use hand sanitizer. If you need to wash your hands, do it with old fashioned soap and water, you do want to play in the dirt you want to pot those plants and you want to get dirty and you want to not be so clean. And then you also all the vegetables that you eat, I'm big on vegetables there was one of the doctors who is presenting is really super into meat and it's not you eat whatever you want. I will not tell you what diet I think you should just pay attention to your body and see what feels good for me. Eating lots of vegetables feels good. Maybe for you. It's eating, you know, meat three times a day. I don't care what you eat as long as it's real food. But there are certain vegetables that are really probiotic. And so that means that they really help you or beneficial bacteria seed themselves in your gut and those include sauerkraut, fermented sauerkraut, right, which you can get almost anywhere. I think these days especially good ones are in Oregon. Kimchi, which is you know what kimchi is? It's a it's a Korean sour sauerkraut, like Korean products. It's very spicy. And it's usually made with cabbage or sometimes radishes. From yogurt, milk yogurt that doesn't have sweetener aspartame in it is really, really good. So as kefir, so you can have a lot of what am I forgetting? Kombucha is another one. You can have a lot of fun with these products. And in our book, The vaccine friendly plan, we recommend that you have a forkful of some kind of good probiotic every day, every meal. I mean, especially when you're pregnant because it's really good for you. But that's another way to help you be organic and then on the subject of From protecting your microbiome, we actually know that people who do exercise so people who move throughout the day are actually juvenile. We've done some research on rats, for example. They're actually helping their beneficial bacteria. So we should write an article called exercise for your bacteria and not for yourself, right? So is, is that, you know, all the movement that you do throughout the day, it doesn't have to be I know you love CrossFit, it doesn't have to be going to the gym, you don't have to become a power lifter, you don't have to become an Olympic athlete, you don't even have to be good at it. But the idea is, you take the stairs instead of the elevator, you know, you you park and you walk half a mile away, and you walk to your destination, or you just start off by walking and biking in the first place. And of course, yes, you can go to the gym. It also really benefits if you are walking or running or playing basketball, which is what I love to do. If you're doing it with other people, then you're getting that community aspect of it. But the thing about it, there's so many benefits to exercise, but one of them is that we sweat out the toxins, all the things that we don't want in our body, and then we're feeding our good bacteria. And we're also really elevating our hormones, all the good ones, the serotonin and the adrenaline, like we're getting the good feelings in our body. So that's why after you've exercised as long as you haven't overdone it, which you shouldn't do, you know, you feel so much better because you are and then it helps you sleep better, which helps you have a better mood for the next day. So that would be another one on my list.

Dr. Paul  46:36  
Fantastic. We're going to eat real food, we're going to mind our biome not be so clean, play in the dirt and take some fermented products as part of our eating habits, and then we're going to get some exercise and sleep better. That sounds good. Sounds kind of like basics. Grandma was right. after all.

Jennifer Margulis  46:56  
I know that's the saddest thing is that grandma was right. And nothing that I'm talking about is rocket science. And on the subject of Grandma, it's really important to breastfeed your baby, there is no substitute for human breast milk. None, none. None, none. None. And I want to encourage any people who are trying to conceive who are new parents to stick with it one drop at a time. It's not like it's easy to do. It's not easy to exercise. It's not easy to eat food. All this stuff is so natural. It all seems like such no brainers but it's actually not so easy. So you have to stick with it even when it's hard, and then it will get easier.

Dr. Paul  47:30  
I'm gonna let you have the closing words, Jennifer, what would you like the world to know?

Jennifer Margulis  47:35  
Health doesn't come from a syringe or a bottle or a pill and that you actually have to be in community with other people. It's not enough to text and be on the computer you have to get together in real life.

Dr. Paul  47:51  
Awesome. Well, folks, there you have it. Do it now. Call somebody and set up a get together. Sounds good. Thank you, Jennifer.

Jennifer Margulis  48:02  
Thank you Dr. Powell.

Dr. Paul  48:09  
Welcome Bernadette pager to against the wind. It is so good to have you back. We missed you for a couple of weeks here. We're going to talk about something that I'm getting a lot of questions about ever since they released that darn report about finding polio in the sewer system in New York. Yeah, and, you know, a bunch of fear mongering around that. So I thought we should kind of kick polio around a little bit.

Bernadette Pajer  48:34  
Yeah, I think getting Oh, go ahead. And well, it's gonna say I've been getting a lot of questions as well. People just want to know what's up. It's been a long time since polio has been in the news in the United States.

Dr. Paul  48:47  
Yeah. So polio, as a pediatrician, it's been on the vaccine schedule for the last 30, some, maybe 40 years. And we still have been giving it some point in my career, we transitioned from the oral polio, you know, the little sugar tablets or drops in the mouth. That was a live virus polio vaccine, it's still being used in many places of the world, it's supposed to be better immunity or, you know, gives better lasting immunity than the injection that we've been using in the States for quite some time, more than a decade. So it's interesting that you can share some information about this. I want our viewers to know where they can get good information about polio. And I've got a little story to share too, when you get to one of those sources. So I know you've done your research, what are good places to get information? I just have to ask before you jumped into that. Yeah. If we searched the sewer systems in any major city, and use PCR testing, I imagine for a virus we will find it. Yes. Okay, well, we will find it. Yeah, especially the enteroviruses Polio is an enterovirus entro meaning intestinal. You know, internal through your GI system. I mean, it's excreted through the sewer, you know, your your toilet, wash it.

Bernadette Pajer  50:09  
So you hit the nail on the head right there. And it's you know, it, we don't really want to know everything that's in our sewer water because we would all be so afraid of everything. The important thing is that live by vaccine that used to be given here still given in very few parts of the world today, they stopped using it because it's so reactive genic, it can cause polio paralysis, and a percentage of individuals who take it. So when more cases of paralysis began to be happening and people from the vaccine than from the wild type virus, they switched to the inactive. The the live virus, though did a better job of preventing infection and colonization in in the in the garden in the digestive intestinal system, I'm probably not using the right language there, I apologize. But the inactivated really does not prevent that happening. But in a fairly wealthy country, by comparison, where we all have flushable toilets, and we hope everybody washes their hands, if anybody has been exposed who was vaccinated, they will have reduced to minimal to no symptoms, they won't even know it, but it will still come out in their feces, but you know, they'll flush it away and nobody will know. But it will be in the sewer water, right? So there likely has been polio in the sewer water throughout the United States forever. They just were either not looking for it or not promoting it. But I my right now what we have is because of COVID. So many parents saw several things going on their eyes were open to a lot of things. And a lot of people are now questioning and looking more closely at the schedule. They're spacing things out, they're looking at necessity, they're looking at historical data. And so there is this slowing and backing off of the uptake of vaccines and public health doesn't want that. So I think that there is some fear mongering going around. So I wanted to share with you a post that I put together on informed choice wall.org In order to provide some information. So you know, basically, Should we be worried? No, we need to be informed always facts over fear. And so I put some fast steps there, I mean, up to 70% of cases have no symptoms of all of polio 25%. Additionally, on top of that meet might have mild symptoms. And that leads to lifelong immunity if you experience it. So it was really only 5% of cases or less that had maybe some serious disease situation emerge that many overcame come and less than 1% had a situation where they had potential polio paralysis occur. As you and I know, and I'll, I'll wait till we get to that other resource. Well, we'll move on to the history of the definition of polio and paralysis because of it. So I provided some places here that I recommend you look, some of them go right to the CDC to give their their data.

They have a frequently asked question page stuff about the inactivated polio virus. So I've included that there I found a really neat, older study that says, quote, before the introduction of modern sanitation, polio infection was acquired during infancy at which time that seldom cause paralysis, but provided lifelong immunity against polio infection, and paralysis later in life. So as with all mass vaccination campaigns, one of the dark sides unintended consequences that seems never to be taken into account by public health, is the fact we disrupt natural immunity, and we end up creating a mess later down the road. And that's exactly what's happened. So go to the informed choice. wall.org look for the polio post, you'll find that and then another place of excellent up to date and information is the defender had on August 15. The Fabulous article polio why vaccines are to blame for rising number of cases. This is actually a reprint of an epic Times article. And this gives the science in the history of the use of the two types of the vaccines and how it could not help but do What it did, which is cause vaccine derived polio to begin to circulate? And that's definitely what we're seeing and what's on the rise. So you'll get all of the data. They're very fascinating article to read. And then my Yeah, they're my final

Dr. Paul  55:20  
suggestion, illusions. Yeah,

Bernadette Pajer  55:22  
the wonderful Suzanne Humphries and Roman, I apologize, I can't say his last name by smokes.

Dr. Paul  55:30  
He to get and read it, especially if I would say if you're really a scientist or an MD, and you're thinking that this discussion of manipulation of data is nonsense, well read this book, it is so well referenced. It reminds me because she really in this book, I love this book. I love Suzanne Humphries. She left a very lucrative career when she realized that vaccines were a problem. And she just couldn't live with herself ethically and morally just go on making money while she was actually harming patients, rather than helping them. And she was an adult medicine person, but she really dove into this. It was it was a masterpiece. So a couple of decades ago, I don't know 10 to 20 years ago, I remember getting an article out of India, India had just so polio had been declared eradicated from the world, basically, I mean, a few little spots, couple countries here and there, India, Pakistan, a couple countries in Africa, they would have little, you know, little outbreaks, but it was basically eradicated, right? And then India has this big outbreak 50,000 cases in India and the World Health Organization. And I believe Bill Gates Foundation was behind this push in India, they did a massive campaign and vaccinated every infant in the country. I mean, they just did this massive campaign. And the next year, guess how many cases of polio they had? I see row, it went from 50,000 cases of polio to zero in one year. But the author of the article pointed out, they had changed the definition of what it took to diagnose polio. So that next year after the vaccine campaign to diagnose polio, you had to submit a sample to the state lab and prove that it was polio. But the lab wasn't set up to do that. So what they had the subsequent year was 53,000 cases of transverse myelitis. So they just basically renamed polio. And they had even more cases after the vaccine campaign than they did before. But the story that was the public was told was we eradicated polio. Yeah, I think Suzanne Humphreys book does a very good job of explaining how that actually happened here in the US.

Bernadette Pajer  57:52  
Yes, it happened here in the US, too. As soon as the vaccine was about to be launched, they sent out new instructions to all the medical providers about how to properly diagnose. And if it didn't fit this exact parameters, which used to be what they call polio, then they would say, No, this is a spiral or spinal meningitis, or they had several different things that it could be classified as, and the numbers just plummeted. But also in the US, it wasn't always that polio was a problem, the polio virus itself, there's tended to be and you'll see in Suzanne's brilliant book dissolving illusions that there was certain times in period like exposure to what was the name of that DDT, and some other things that environmental factors that were going on, at the time, a great book. So bottom line, you're hearing about polio, don't fear it, go learn about what the virus is learn how to support your immune system. And I'll tell you what, the all of the protocols, I've been talking with various medical providers, people who are on the frontlines of treating COVID Talk to them about some of the COVID protocols, because many of them work for many a broad range of viruses. And many of those wonderful prevention and treatment protocols that work for COVID also worked for polio, and they also work for monkey pox. So

Dr. Paul  59:29  
we can real truth to this folks gassing and supporting your natural immune system is actually key. It's lifestyle factors. Take your own health into your own hands. Right, Bernadette, we've been preaching this from the beginning. And just you don't need to fear polio, period, end of story. They're trying to get people to get back into the doctor's offices to get back on their childhood immunization schedules. I'm not giving immunization advice. I'm merely saying you don't need to be fearful of this one app. All, end of story.

Bernadette Pajer  1:00:02  
Exactly. Know the risks and benefits, I want to put make this really important point. When you a lot of times when a doctor does a risk benefit consultation on a vaccination, they tell you the risks of the disease and the benefits of the vaccine. They are supposed to tell you the risks of the disease the benefits of the disease like it later in in adulthood, you might have reduced incidence of cancer if you experience measles as a six year old. The the benefits of naturally acquired immunity, that sort of thing they're supposed to explain and any alternatives available, which would be treatment in case of measles, that would be vitamin A right and any virus, as you well know all those nutrients, vitamin A D zinc glutathione, although those are helpful in supporting the immune system, and if they're supposed to tell you that. And they're supposed to also tell you not just the benefits of the vaccine product, but the risks of the product. How long does any protection last? Right? They're supposed to what are the unintended consequences? fully informed consent does not happen in this nation or anywhere in the world in the realm of vaccinations. So just keep that in mind. You have to provide your own information, full profile, to decide how you want to protect yourself and your children. What your health approach and then most importantly, what Dr. Pol, go find a health care provider, aligned with your approach to health and wellness so that you've got a professional partner on your journey that you can turn to at times when it can be a little scary.

Dr. Paul  1:01:47  
well stated. And just remember, you don't need to be afraid of polio. Thanks, Bernadette.

Bernadette Pajer  1:01:53  
Thank you, Doctor PA.

Dr. Paul  1:02:00  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:05  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. Today's key interview is with a power MD couple, Tim and may Hindmarsh. They are passionate about all aspects of medicine, physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. Their words we love cutting through all the BS out there and help our patients and also challenging our fellow physicians on what we are doing in health care. They give their history from family practice to urgent care to being frontline doctors and then hosting their own podcast called The Bs free podcast. You'll have to check that out. We discussed their move, and we discuss a lot of things about COVID. And what's happening in medicine. It's a must see interview. We close this week out with a very important synopsis and review from Dr. H. Dr. Ely, who is telling us what has happened along the way the missteps made by the CDC and now the very important legal action being brought against them on a federal level. It doesn't matter what state you're in, you can go to the link and support this position that's calling for a grand jury investigation of the CDC. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. My topic today is trusting and letting go. I was reading from Richard Rohr, his book breathing underwater. He talks about the need for a trust walk, letting go and actually unlearning, this sounds tough. So he talks about opening up three spaces at once. mind, heart and body. Wow. So for the mind, how do you open up your mind? Well, it's that opinionated mind that judging mind that spinning mind that I might have. And I open that up through meditation, being quiet, calming, and prayer. How about the heart, a closed heart is a hurt heart. If you've been hurt, you know what I'm talking about? How do we open that up? Well, this is the fun part, folks. You've got to get out and have some fun, music, art, dance getting out in nature. If you love poetry, it's poetry. And it's just plain old play. This is what opens up your heart. Have some fun. And then how about the body opening up the body? Well, this is generally if I'm closed down, I'm fearful. I'm defensive, perhaps I'm keeping people at a distance. And in a safe environment, we open up our body through touch, skin to skin hugs, yoga, healthy sex, if you have that kind of a healthy relationship. These are ways of opening up your body. I don't usually quote scripture, but I couldn't help this one. First Thessalonians, 523 and 24. May the God of peace make you whole may you be kept safe in body, heart and mind. Ready for the presence. God has called you and will not fail you. Just today I'm sitting here getting ready to do this show and a fellow patient of mine the dad walks in how you doing brother gives me a big ol hugs I need to talk to you yanks me out of the space here, we walk outside and he's puts his arms around me says you know, God's doing some great things for you. And you need to have joy and gratitude for being given the opportunity to be in the space that you're in. Now he knows about the fact that the Board hearing is coming three weeks set aside in November, there's massive things happening in my life, lots of decisions needing to be made. And at times, I would let that get to me and boy did I need that message. And he reminded me the story of the mustard seed. You just need the faith of a mustard seed the tiniest seed of all and you can move mountains. I thought I can do that. So I just wanted to share that with you. If you feel like you've got mountains to move, where you've got obstacles that just seem too great. Remember, we're called to do the work. Make the decisions that you're called to make be open to hearing from that higher source, right? That's all we do. We do the work and we let go of what we let go of the results and then everything is okay. Because we're not in charge too often I try to take charge. I hope that helps you. I share that message with teenagers when I'm in my practice when they're stressed out and anxious about all these things coming at them. And so you know, just give it your best. Do your part and let go of the results. Take care. Welcome doctors may and Tim Hindmarsh, what a privilege it is to have you on against the wind doctors in science under fire.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  4:44  
Thank you so much for having us. We are really excited to be here.

Dr. Paul  4:48  
I had not realized you guys were just south of me right here in Oregon. And you guys have a podcast BS free medical podcast that I can't wait to learn more about we'll get to that but Give me Give me a little a little bit about your background. I mean, I know you two are married. And so having a medical marriage is a is a is an accomplishment in and of itself. Share with me a little bit about your background.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  5:14  
Wow. Okay, so the short version is we both were born and raised in Canada, met in medical school, we did a family practice residency in Edmonton, Alberta. And then we actually got recruited down to the US at the time of the early 90s, when managed care was coming in. And there was a giant, let's say shortage of primary care Doc's. And with all the changes to health care on HMOs. Yeah, we got recruited to the US and actually worked out well for us because Canada was also putting limitations on physicians and where they could practice at the time to try to control the rural family practice gigs, so we couldn't really go anywhere other than where we had trained. So quite unhappy with the situation up there. We emigrated to the US. I have been here since 94. raised our two kids and actually been we've practiced for 25 years in one system here south in the Willamette Valley, did everything from I mean, we did the full rural family practice, Tim did an OB practice as well. I pulled the plug on that just because I like my sleep a little bit more than he does. But we did everything from coroner to we did all our in hospital, patient management ICU. And then over time, with changes, we kind of got disillusioned with failing practice, I pulled the plug first and switched over to urgent care in 2010. And then Tim in 2013. And so we've been doing urgent care. Since then, in the Willamette Valley area. We've also raised our kids who are now long gone. And, you know, that's kind of where we've been. The big thing for us is we've worked through this COVID pandemic, as I would say, frontline physicians right from the get go because of the group we were at, when the pandemic started, pretty much put the urgent care doctors as the head charge, whatever, frontline Doc's during the pandemic and kind of set it up so that we would be the ones to see anybody that had like a sniffle an Erica shortness of breath, anything and the way things turned out. We've been doing COVID management right from the beginning. And currently we are kind of back to our roots. We're still in our little hometown here in rural America and have helped a former resident that we train set up at practice in our little hometown, and we've been treating COVID patients with no fear and lots of them. And that's kind of where we're at.

Dr. Paul  8:12  
Wow. But I was reading up about your backgrounds. I noticed. Tim, for example, you've been on all sorts of committees. Very, very connected with what we would have called, you know, mainstream medical establishment stuff. And may I know you did a medical director of starfish medical ministries that interests me, because I I'm a missionary kids. So I think that's cool. So when you switched, you know, when COVID hit, this was a whole brand new thing, right for all of us. And it's it's interesting, my observation, and I'm learning about you, too. As we go here, folks, I have not done much homework to know what what your answers might be like, I'm just curious. People were being told, Go home, stay home, don't come to the hospital until you're ready to die, basically short, short of breath. And that just made no sense to me as a physician. I mean, I'm a pediatrician, you guys do pediatrics as well. I mean, we were supposed to be taking care of the sickest of the sickest but also preventing it. Did you get involved with America's frontline doctors at all? Or did you just do when you say you were frontline you just you were it?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  9:34  
Yeah, you know, initially. I mean, it was a journey for us. There was definitely a red pilling that occurred. And it was actually quite, I'm actually kind of proud of it honestly because like are we started doing live streams. Really early in the pandemic we had, like literally in March like as soon as everything I was supposed to go to, you know, to the rock band tool On the door, whatever that day was the 12th or 13th of March, and they canceled the show. And so we all went over to my friend's house and stayed up really late and listened to music and did what we normally would do anyways. And, and from the I remember having discussions like all my friends, right, like, they're all, well, this is all BS, this is nothing, it's just the sniffles. And I said, we have absolutely no idea what it is, like so so you know, we only have one bullet in the chamber. And so about a week later, we started doing live streams. In our first Facebook Live Stream, we had 10,000 downloads in like 12 hours. And I'm like, holy crap, this, people actually care about this. And so we went from, there's only one bullet in the chamber right now, because we don't know what this is. And the only evidence we're getting is from China, which God only knows what that means. So you know, and that bullet was isolation. So that's where we started. And we actually met missed one of our friends 50th birthday parties were like, We don't know how contagious this is, you know, people really shouldn't be in groups, etc, etc. So that's where we started. And so from, you know, and then we started reading, and I've read, if I've probably read 1000 hours, and I know more about virology now than I ever knew, even the day I graduated from medical school. And so I started reading all across the map. And, you know, then man, I would discuss it, I mean, almost to the point where it's like, I don't want to talk about this anymore. Can we talk about like vacations or something, and this doesn't, and a lot of stuff just started to not make sense. So I'm like, Man, this really doesn't seem that bad. Like, you know, the average age of death is like 80. So so if you're a male, you know, you're the milk with that's two years past your expiration date. And then you die of a viral illness. Well, that's just called life. And I was like, you know, I was sort of, so I started kind of going like, this doesn't make any sense. And as you're looking at the prison data, which was completely like, I mean, there was really nothing, nothing publicized about this. And I had to dig really deep to find these articles on prison data, which was fascinating, where every single person was positive, and no one was very sick. And this is back in, like, July of 2020.

Dr. Paul  12:24  
Wow. So that was the original Wuhan strain that was supposedly so deadly.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  12:28  
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like it, they killed one guard in this prison, who was morbidly obese and a little bit older, and it killed I think, somebody else that was a prisoner that was, you know, in his 70s, or something. And but they tested like, Finally, one warden said, I've had enough and they tested every single person in the prison. And they had like a 75, or 80%, positive rate, which is what you would expect, right? It's a respiratory virus, it spreads super easy. You have all of these people like contained, they obviously can't go anywhere. They're in jail. And I was like, wow. So I guess we're all going to get it and you know, the susceptible people are going to potentially succumb or get really sick. But we seem to be really kind of turning our society upside down for not really good reason. So that's where that kind of started with me. Well, then the podcast started. So we started the podcast in January of 2021. And by this point, you know, with the reading and reaching out and seeing what the what the heck is going on, you know, we managed to get an interview with Peter McCullough early in that was in May of 21. Harvey Risch followed Paul Alexander. I, you know, by that point, we were deep into the COVID-19, you know, email group that Peter had started, and we're like, holy man, this is, this is crazy, like we've had really smart guys come up with really good treatment protocols. All of it has just been completely buried by any of these large corporate systems that we'd worked for. We've worked for two big corporate systems. We've done a little bit of healthcare work in Canada based on tons of admission work compared to me, etc, etc, etc. And we're like, this doesn't add up. Well, then, then the vaccines came out? Well, again, I'd read a lot on the vaccines. And actually, I thought the mRNA technology was really, really interesting, not necessarily for COVID. But just the idea that you could potentially do gene therapy for things like cancer for cystic fibrosis, etc, etc. And it actually worked like they actually got, after 10 years of trying, they finally got the lipid nanoparticle to deploy its payload, I thought, Wow, this could completely change the world. So we actually got vaccinated really early, which is another entire story unto itself because we got absolutely zero effects. Like no or nothing like zero. And when we later I mean, which was just a couple of months ago, interviewed Sasha a lot of povo, who went, who started, you know, it was one of the initial people to look through the did you get a bad batch stuff? And he was like, I guarantee you, I've looked at those batches. And if you had absolutely no side effects at all, then you probably got saili. I'm like, perfect. So then what really clinched it for us is we started, you know, we're working in an outpatient Urgent Care in, in Eugene. And we started to see vaccine side effects pile up like crazy by spring of 21. And, like,

every day, we worked, I mean, there was something and then we've just discussed it, you know, I said, think of all the PDFs. So he had a massive pediatric clinic, because of his OB practice. I mean, my patient base and family practice was quite different. But we we said, like, look at all the years that combined the two us just done in pediatrics back vaccinations, how many vaccine injuries do you remember, I think we can remember one between the two of us at this point, like up to 20 plus years. And, you know, thinking back to even colleagues, and I said, Look at what's happening with this. I mean, every day we would work us or one of our colleagues were working with, we'd see something come in from localized real horrific rashes and reactions. And then it started, I never saw up case of pot syndrome in my life. Sure enough, myocarditis, two cases for sure that I had seen, we were starting to see all kinds of bizarre neurologic things, I saw nurse that did have gilt Gan Vare, she actually personally said, I know this is from the vaccine have, it has to be because I'm healthy. This was just 10 days ago, yada, yada. It started to pile up like crazy. And that's when, you know, our eyes started to really open. To that, but back to what you were asking about the not doing any treatment for patients that are sick, that's the the other thing that man that really bothered me and is still to the, to this day, like I, I, I just find it incomprehensible. What has happened, you know, we would be on the phone with people initially, before we open back up the urgent care to see people. And it would be you won't stay at home. No, there's nothing we can do. You know, lay in bed, blow your nose. Easy, right? chicken noodle soup. And then finally, you know, when we were we had everything open, and we're in full hazmat suits, as I call them, and donning and doffing and wasting equipment between every I mean, it was crazy what we went through,

right, but the next crisis will be climate change. And we'll have caused it by all the PPE that we're burning.

We would see people and we were basically instructed by the upper powers above us that there's, there's nothing we can offer these people. Just, you know, we were doing a talent, we'd be doing telehealth, it was like, just tell them stay at home, monitor your OTU and your temperature. And if it gets really bad, then you have to go to the ER and be admitted. And we looked at each other and even some of our colleagues and we thought oil in the history of medicine of ever taking care of patients do we say we're not going to do anything to help you out until we're ready to put you in the hospital? It's absurd, right from you have a UTI or a pneumonia? I mean, do you ever just tell a patient? I'm not going to try anything until you get to the hospital? Well, but they're going with the flu, right?

But if I can interject, you know, there's another thing here that's really super fascinating, which is, you know, I know that you're familiar with this, which is obviously the gigantic increase in all cause mortality, especially in younger people, like when you look at these insurance companies and so forth. But when I think back just to, again, you know, what did I personally see with my own eyes? What did i What did I witness, you know, working 35 hours a week, or whatever I did, in my own patients. And it was fascinating, because Because healthcare actually matters, it probably doesn't matter as much as most of us think it does. But when you need appropriate treatment, you need appropriate treatment. And in the in the first probably four months of the pandemic, I saw more sick respiratory patients with new onset congestive heart failure than I did COVID patients. And I'm like, I'm trying to explain it to a patient. I'm like, Okay, ma'am. You know, you haven't been seen by any of your providers in however long you're in acute congestive heart failure. I mean, I'm trying to explain the gravity of the case like this is very serious, like, this is a really, you know, prognostically, this is a terrible disease to get. You don't want to have this. And they're totally relieved, because it's not COVID. And I'm like, no, no, you don't understand, you have to go to the hospital. I mean, you know, there's really effective treatment will get you feeling better in just a few hours. And then we can add other meds and we can extend your lifespan and we can get you feeling way better, why don't want to go to the hospital, because we're going to get COVID. And I'm like, Sister, what you have is 1000 times worse than COVID. It's congestive heart failure for the love of God, please go to the hospital. And I mean, and this would happen over and over again, we would do telehealth, and people would be weeping, you know, like a 45 year old man weeping because he was going to kill his family. I mean, that's when he was convinced was going to happen. I'm like, Dude, you're fine. You know, you're 10 days into this, you're coughing your brains out. But you're out to SATs fine, you don't have a fever, your body aches are gone. You got a cold, you're gonna be fine. You don't need anything else right now. And it was just like, you know, and then you'd see these people were You were scared. You sent them to the hospital. And thank by the time we were sending people, at least I was sending people regular, you know, seeing them more ill we had gone away from the ventilator status part. So that was good news. Because the ventilators were clearly a death sentence. Yeah, no, but they would still get, thank God, they got dexamethasone, they got high flow up patient, you know, or non ICU oxygen, which seemed to work pretty well. But then, of course, they got rid of this fear, right? You know, just like an entire other story. And so, you know, this, we didn't just kill people by shutting them in and making them alcoholics and depressed. What we did, we didn't just harm children by having them not interact with other children and play outside and do fitness activities and things they needed to do. And we and but we also killed people because really legitimate healthcare that we've been doing quite efficiently for the better part of 100 years, just ceased to exist. I was like, I know, how do you do that? Like, how do you stop people's cancer therapies? Because they're now elective. It's like, it's like in 2010 and 2008. During the election, you know, healthcare is a human right. Healthcare is a human right. You know, we have to have socialized medicine, we have to have Obama Care, it's the most important thing in the whole frickin world is health care. Well, until we say it's not. And I'm like, why? Really?

Dr. Paul  22:49  
It's a it was a crazy level of insanity. If you think back, I imagine you have a similar experience. Let's go pre COVID. it's wintertime, we're seeing all the sickness gets the the sickest kids, maybe it was RSV severe case of bronchitis. They're actually having Oh, two sat issues. We would identify what they had, and if necessary, hospitalized, but we would manage them, you know, right from the get go figuring out do they have a bacterial pneumonia that needs antibiotics or not? Those sorts of things. All of that sort of just got shoved aside. It's either COVID or not. Oh, yeah. It's like, there's nothing else to worry about. It was insane. Is that?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  23:28  
I mean, yeah, absolutely. From what you're saying. I mean, it goes to the extreme, it got to the point where we were working were, like Tim said, anybody that said they had shortness of breath, a kid that had ear pain, somebody who said they had a rash, they would not get to be they would not be seen or allowed to be seen in a primary care clinic because they're screened out because they have symptoms of COVID. Right. And so well,

everything was drink a bottle of Jack Daniels last night, and now I have a headache. It's COVID You gotta Well no, you're an idiot. That's what I mean. He was really insane.

Dr. Paul  24:06  
Yeah. So So thinking back pre COVID vaccine. And so we've got this pandemic, they're the, you know, I think you and I, we've all read the same deep dive into the actual literature and realize that it was the PCR testing with, you know, an epidemic of positive tests because of using the wrong testing technology, which made the fear mongering so so possible by the news, but what did you guys actually see because you're in the trenches, seeing the sickest kids, adults, old people, before there was a code vaccine. How much death and destruction did COVID Cause on your population there? I mean, you're in a mid sized town that has, you know, I'm sure you're plenty busy.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  24:58  
We saw Oh, So in October of 21, we started actively pursuing monoclonal antibodies and treating patients. Oregon Health Authority was actually really good to us, because we just asked, so we did two things we asked and we received. And number two, we took all comers. We didn't we didn't care how sick you were, whether you have the sniffles. We saw sick patients, we just said, it is our duty as physicians to see sick patients, and that this is after vaccine, this is after the vaccine. So we saw a virtually zero death and destruction, at least from COVID. That is a, I think an important caveat. Prior to that, there was a fairly prominent person in our community that was in his mid 40s. got very, very ill was in the hospital for several months, but somehow almost miraculously survived. One of our neighbors who is very fit, but older got really sick, but he was fine. And that was,

well, yeah, that's what we had in our clinic.

As far as our personal our personal experience, both with patients and members of the community. That's what we saw.

There was that outbreak at the nursing home, though, remember, that's where it seemed to all start?

Yeah, that was really, really early. The veterans home in Lebanon, they had had a pretty big outbreak. But I don't even know if that killed a single person. And they had guys, they had a guy in there that survived. That was over 100. Yeah, I have not seen more death, personally, in my life, with people close to me, or associates of ours in the last two years than I have in my entire life, and part of it's just the demographics. You know, I'm in my late 50s. Now, and, you know, my mother got old and died. And you know, my aunts and uncles have been dying. You know, my mother.

Dr. Paul  26:54  
So you're saying you have seen more deaths in the last two years,

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  26:58  
but not COVID? No. Parallel death kits, the opposite train track, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  27:05  
And are you I feel like most of our peers are not even asking the question. Did you get the COVID vaccine, when they see people who come in with bizarre symptoms? Is that Is that true? Or maybe I'm wrong on that. And what are you seeing? Are you asking when you when you have a young person with myocarditis? I'm 35 years doing pediatrics until COVID vaccine. I had never seen a case of myocarditis in a kid. I've had a kid hospitalized already with myocarditis. They went to the pharmacy and got the jab.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  27:39  
Yeah, no, I absolutely would always ask mostly just out of my own curiosity, not other judgment. And I tell them that this is not a judgement. Just be like I asked other health questions. You know, do you smoke just actually active? And I'm curious, did you get the vaccine or not? I absolutely asked. And man with all the side effects I was seeing. I mean, it was like a total one to one correlation. I don't

know. Yeah, it was fat. You know, the other thing that was fascinating with regards to the vaccine, and in the an illness, was once we started, we got the, I mean, we were getting referrals from the major health systems because we actually kind of would see sick people, right. And they knew that we had tons of monoclonal antibodies. And so you know, we had people coming from, we had a guy come from Vegas, we had somebody come from Boise, because they knew that they would be seen and treated that day, which was critical. It wasn't just seeing sick people, it was yet to see them, and you had to be willing to treat them when you saw them. Because some places were seeing somebody and then they might be day five or day six into their illness, and they're scheduling them for a monoclonal infusion three days later, well, that's just completely worthless. So we would see them and treat them that day. And we have treated almost 1000 people. We have had maybe one or two that went to the hospital after that. But it was interesting, because I would ask every single person if they're vaccinated, is initially what we saw in when we started in October is probably 75% of the people that that were sick enough to require treatment were unvaccinated. Now, it's the complete inverse. And this is in a county that's probably has the least number of vaccinated people or close to it to the least number of vaccinate people per capita in the state. So, you know, now virtually everybody that we see that would require treatment is is vaccinated. And I'm like, Well, yeah, because Gert VandenBosch talked about this two years ago. And he's, I mean, he's been Ezekiel with regards to his prophecies. He's been so accurate, and I think that is terrifying. Honestly.

Dr. Paul  29:55  
Can you share with our audience what you're talking about as far as what is it about? Are these shots that seems to be putting people at risk?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  30:04  
Yeah, I mean, I think what and again, this is a lot of stuff I learned recently. What it comes down to is is to is to real, as I understand it to big concepts that are kind of the same thing. One is called original antigenic sin, and the other and the other one is similar, which is like immune imprinting. So original antigenic sin is a postulate that says that the first antigenic insult you get in other words, the first virus you get infected with in that family of viruses is going to be how you respond essentially with memory, immunity for the rest of your life. So for instance, if you got h1 and one flu, then every flu virus that you get exposed to you're going to respond with h1, h1, and one responds with your T cells and your antibodies and whatnot. So the problem with that there's two big problems. First of all, when you number one is you're immunizing people with an extinct Coronavirus. during a pandemic, that's the critical thing. Okay, so why is that a big deal? Because you're giving them the original antigenic sin insult. What when there's a giant selection pressure of tons of that virus in the system. So if you have a 100%, sterilizing virus, like the smaller vaccine, rather like the smallpox vaccine, then you get the smallpox vaccine. You don't get smallpox, when you have a leaky or less perfect vaccine, like the Coronavirus vaccine, or the flu shot for that matter. And you have a huge amount of virus in the in the ecosystem, you're gonna by definition, respond to that viral pressure with the old antibodies from the Delta are from the Alpha strain. And by definition, you are going to push the evolutionary development of variants. And, you know, geared VandenBosch, who was Believe it or not, the head vaccinology is for Gates said, You cannot, especially with the respiratory virus, vaccinate your way out of the pandemic, you'll only make it worse, you'll only push the variants. And if you're very unfortunate, you will push them to not just more contagious but more deadly variants. And so. So that's the problem I firmly believe based on the science and listening to somebody like Kurt who's really been virtually 100% correct for the last few years is the more we're vaccinating this, you know, with these, even if we get an omachron vaccine, the more we're going to push the variance and the law and it's never gonna go away. Like it's never going to go away because we're going to continue to push this evolutionary selection pressure. And that's the key to stopping this now is to just say we're done. stop vaccinating, stop isolating, you know, treat the sick with you know, the there's approved treatments out there that are good. I think pack packs of it is terrible. But I think the monoclonal 's Are All Right. You know, we still have evidence of ivermectin, etc. treat the sick, take your vitamins, lose weight, all the stuff you're supposed to do to be healthy, and we're done. That's a solution. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  33:35  
I couldn't agree more. This is clearly been a biggest disaster from a public health standpoint. I mean, so we're both ignored. We're all in Oregon. What do you think of our public health response? How is it that fellow physicians can miss it this badly? I mean, just totally ignore the actual what's happening on the ground? What, what the heck?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  34:09  
I mean, I don't know I honestly, we look at each other and we go, are we just becoming dinosaurs and we practice this long that the culture of medicine has changed that much that? I mean, honestly, that's a big part of what we talk about it? Is that how it just seems like so many physicians just got in line kind of like a Handmaid's Tale or lemmings or whatever and just nodded their head and listen to those in power and government and said, okay, okay, okay, this is what you say, Okay. And just, I'm like, where's the critical thinking? I mean, so a big part of me is like, is it just a selection bias and where we live in the US and the our state being very Blue in the cities tends to want to just listen to those in power. I mean, in the rural areas, not so much. And then honestly, the thing that the other thing that the shutdowns I mean, it just seemed to follow the whole national narrative was annoying. But what really frosted me frosted my cookies, like I like to say is when people wanted to try things like hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and would start to prescribe those. And we're not the only state to get shut down. I think there's like six others. I remember hearing through, you know, RF cases book, but where the pharmacist had the power to veto us prescribing? Right. Right like that. That just blew my mind. Right. So even companies like Tim and I said, people going to work, you know, they, they unless they were vaccinated, their employer had the power to say, No, you can't come to work if you don't follow, you know, this quarantine regulations, but we won't let you come to work if you're not vaccinated. I'm like they're practicing medicine without a license. I mean, Tim was the first to really realize that, how can they determine who gets to put what into their body? If, if the doctor has written an exemption for them, whether it be a religious commendation or a medical exemption? The employer wouldn't deny it. All these things from maybe that's the employer standpoint, but the minute even when we would just talk with colleagues and other people about how we weren't even trying any treatments. We I mean, we remember HIV, we'd throw everything at the book to try to see what work and people like, oh, no, now, now, there's no evidence, it's just this with the powers that be say, I mean, well, I'm still banging my head against the wall, you

know, Harvey Harvey Risch really helped rip the scales off my eyes when we interviewed him. And basically, he said, Look, I've been, you know, that's been my job. I've been teaching Epidemiology at Harvard, or Yale, rather, for, you know, a million years. And he goes, a randomized controlled trial can be made to say whatever you want to study, he goes, That's the bottom line. And, and he was the first person to actually kind of remind me that when something gets peer reviewed, it's peer reviewed, based on the data that the drug company gives to the peer reviewers, it's not the raw data. So so this, this looking at the actual, you know, you know, they tell you how they included an excluded people, etc. But they don't give the raw data. So it's not really pure. So nothing really is peer reviewed, when you really think of it. It's peer reviewed inside the farm, you know, the, you know, farmers net? And and, you know, when I started hearing that I was like, Okay, well, why do these guys worship randomized controlled trials so much? Well, it's because they can control them. It's that speed, I became very clear to me in the last year. And, you know, we got in a little bit of a debate on LinkedIn, with with another physician, who was, you know, whining and complaining and saying you shouldn't do anything without a randomized controlled trial? Well, I found it curious that the guy was a neurosurgeon. There's not a single thing that he knows for over a year job that can be randomized in a placebo controlled trial. You know, like, No, you cut on people, you can't hide that. And I was just like, I was just stunned. I'm like, do not get this. I mean, what makes doctors doctors is the ability to think critically and solve problems. But we're not trained that way anymore. We're not like engineers to say, here's a toolkit of math, go build a bridge and solve a problem. We're told, recognize a pattern, and then plug yourself into the pattern algorithm and prescribe this drug. Just not like it. We are trained. From day one now, little baby doctors, not to think, to not think and do what we're told that's 100% Correct. And, and it's not particularly new. I found an article I forget the guy's name. I tried to get him on the show, but I don't know what happened. But he wrote an article, he was a medical ethicist and a pediatrician, I believe it was, why were so many Nazis, doctors, like he went back and looked at the history. And this appeal to authority in this kind of almost military ranking that goes on in in the training of physicians, I think is a real reason for that. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  39:40  
I know that you make a really good point, because back when we were in residency, right, you looked up to that senior resident, because you were just so overwhelmed with all the things you had to master. I mean, somebody's having a heart attack on you. They're having a seizure. You've never managed that. We had those first two years of medical school basic science. We're all on the same page. It makes thence. And then you just go into here's a disease, what do you treat it with? And it's all that pharma protocol, they've got it down to a science, if you will. Tobacco science. So, you two started BS free medical podcast? How did that come about?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  40:20  
Wow. So it really was basically born out of the pandemic. You know, for years as our poor kids have experienced just table talking at each other. Throughout our whole career in the lies. We always have fun discussions. We don't always agree. We debate stuff. And sometimes it's too much probably table talk at home, and can't leave work behind. But I'm like, man, you know, man, you need an you need someone else to talk, talk to you about this. I'm done. I'm unplugging. Or we would be with friends. And they would love our interaction, and they just start laughing like, everybody should be able to hear you guys talk. This is so funny, you know. So we kind of have that in the back of our head. But when the when the pandemic hit, and what happened was we were supposed to go on our annual vacation to Hawaii was all booked April 1, well, pandemic happened, right, March, everything's closing. And we were literally we said, Okay, we won't show up for work for two weeks, and we were furloughed at home. And that's when we were watching all everything in the news and the media and researching. And our friends are texting and freaking out in our family. So we thought, well, let's just share what we know, as we're learning it with everybody. We started doing Facebook Lives. And we started doing it every week. And we were I can't believe how many people we were getting. Right from the beginning how many downloads. So at that time, we thought this has been a good test. You know, for this podcast, we talked about doing it, you know, we're doing our financial planner actually had a podcast and he says, You guys are doing the hard version, you're doing the video, what's much easier to do audio, because you can record it, edit, etcetera. I said, so this is gonna be an easy transition and long story short, we, they started a network called the doctor Podcast Network at that fall to get together a bunch of actually different minded physicians with various podcasts, and it launched in 2021. And that's, that's how it started. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  42:29  
Fantastic. And so what are what are some of your favorite interviews?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  42:35  
Oh, yeah. So that's the fun part about our podcast. So it's called BS free MD. And, you know, the, the gist of it is, is that it's probably we've started it with a target audience of both medical and non medical people all alike, but we really find that our audience is mostly non medical, and we like to own it. So that you know, it's just like talking to our patients and trying to simplify things. But the base of the podcast is to cut to the chase of what's really happening in medicine, topics, that they're really interested in everything from the physical, mental health, spiritual issues. And, you know, what's, what's the truth, you know, we can we like to present various sides, but we like to kind of cut through some of the BS that people don't understand that's out there,

Dr. Paul  43:27  
you to have found life's balance, and you talk about the four F's, faith, family, finance, and fun, and I can see you have a way to just pull all that together and still, you know, be on that same path. Kudos to you both. Really enjoyed having you on the show. I want to give you the last word, we've got a large audience, what kind of each of you maybe take a stab at what, what the most important message you would like people to take from this interview.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  43:58  
Everyone has a voice. And you have to be willing to speak up and say what you believe. Like, we have finally got to a point where we don't care. You know, be? In other words, we don't care what other people unnecessarily think. Because we care way more about what we believe and who we answer to. So we care so deeply, that we don't care. Yeah, if that makes sense. And so what does that mean? You know, because people are like, well, you know, I'm just I'm a stay at home mom and I got three kids. While Do you ever go to a PTA meeting? Do you ever go hang out with your friends and somebody says something completely off the wall, like they're gonna get a fourth jab and you go, why would you do that? That doesn't make, you know, you can gently confront people and stand up for what you believe. But most of us, I think I and I, and I see this a lot in faith communities, and in often sort of more genteel conservative communities, is we just sit there and take it. Well, you got to do the, you know, it's Dee Snider time and we're not Gotta take it. And it doesn't mean you have to be obnoxious, it means exactly the opposite. And so if I was going to use this there, a verse has plagued me during this whole thing, and it really is, is you have to be gentle as doves and as shrewd as snakes. And I think we need to do that, as the defenders of what we see as the defenders of truth, gentlest doves, shooter snakes.

Yeah, I would kind of piggyback on that a little bit, but say that, you know, this ultimate, the, through this whole pandemic, and just career wise as, as things have gone on, you know, patients that are not medically trained the lay people, you know, VA, they really start to question what's going on by authority? Physicians. And so I would say to that, is that, you know, don't be afraid same thing, don't be afraid to question authority. And stand up and stand up for yourself and your community. And you might be right at the local level, at the school board, the government because it's that's the only way to affect change. But don't be afraid to speak up. And, you know, so many people that we've met, that's patients and just across the podcast, have been those people that have said, you know, I'm going to stand up for what I believe in and fight for the truth, instead of the bigger narrative. But be your health advocate as well. So

Dr. Paul  46:39  
excellent. So are you gonna get the next booster?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  46:42  
No way.

Goodness at this point, Helen Keller could see that this doesn't we've also

had cocaine. We've I've had it twice. Tim had it at least once. And I'm like, we've got a really good dose of immunity. No,

Dr. Paul  47:00  
devil's advocate one last thing, I want to see how you answer this, how could may Tim, you to our doctors, but you're way out there? How could you be right? And you're trying to tell me that all the other doctors are wrong? That just doesn't make any sense?

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  47:17  
It you know, medicine, medicine and science. If it's science is not based on a consensus. It's based on what's true.

The biggest question people need to ask is why are they silencing people that want to question it? That's not science. It never was. So

America, so every time I wake up and go, Okay, maybe I've just drank the Kool Aid, and I met John Jonestown. And you know, I'm listening to the preacher with the funny sunglasses. I go, well, then what if that's the case, and we're insane? Why are they silencing? Right? Are the people that we agree with, and I go, you don't silence insane people that disagree with you, you turn the volume up to 11. You want you want the shrieking insane people that disagree with you to be heard with the most clarity possible, and they're doing the exact opposite. That's all you have to see to go. If something is not right

Dr. Paul  48:15  
here. Something's not right. Well, nice answer. Thank you so much for that. I get asked the same thing. Even my own mother was questioning me like, how can you be right and everybody else is wrong. And, and I'm like, Mom, I live in this world. This is what I do for 24/7 and have for the last decades, couple, two, three decades. And you're gonna listen to some guy on the news. who's reading a teleprompter. Come on. Anyway, you guys have been delightful. Thank you so much, folks. Check out BS free md.com. I can't wait to go look at some of your podcasts and stay in touch with you all. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Drs. May and Tim Hindmarsh  48:53  
Hey, thanks for having us. It was so fun.

Absolutely.

Dr. Paul  49:02  
Welcome, Dr. H, you are such a blessing to our show. You are the founder of the Energetic Health Institute. Folks, if you want to know any of the documentation that we're gonna talk about, check that website out. You host a weekly nationwide program, the Energetic Health radio, and you're a regular writer for American out loud that network. You've published some incredible manuscripts, the COVID-19 data collection. That's been massive. You got a 444. I don't know how you got the numbers to work out just perfect like that page peer review position statement on willful misconduct. And I just man, it's called COVID-19 restoring public trust during a public health crisis. You can go check out the entire document. You've been a big part of a calling for a congressional investigation into the CDC is violation of multiple federal laws. And most importantly, I think for today's update your team you've been had This formal Grand Jury petition exposing these rampid acts of willful misconduct. And so yeah, give us a little history of how you got here from being just a health nutrition guy to, to kind of leading the nation and trying to hold the these folks feet to the fire.

Dr. Henry Ealy  50:19  
Well, you know, thank you again, Dr. Paul, for having me. It's always a pleasure to be here. You know, we started this on March 12 2020. And some didn't smell right. You know, it was just like, we didn't smell right was they were advocating for locking down healthy Americans. That's never been done before in human history. So when we saw that we said, you know, there's something out with this. And then not too long after we saw while we were supposedly locked down that all these 5g towers were going up and everything. And it's like there was somebody's making a move here. This is a strategic kind of move here. So I'm tracking the data out of Italy, out of South Korea out of China, just because I want to calm people down and say, look, let's see how bad this is going to be, who it's going to be bad for, and how long it's going to last, right. And the data was really clear within a week or two, over 60, with multiple comorbidities, multiple pre existing conditions. It would last a country about 40 days, that's that we're going to see a rise and then a fall. And as we're tracking the data for the United States, something interesting happened. As the number of new cases new hospitalizations and new deaths per day started to drop. There was then this secondary rise up that we hadn't seen any, any other country. And I was like, what is that now I'm a date I my background, once upon a time, I was a data analyst on the International Space Station. So I was like, we have to be able to explain that. And I can't explain that because it isn't happening anywhere else in the world. But when we started digging into it, it was the CDC changing how death certificates were reported, but only for COVID. And the problem with how they went about doing it is they did not report those changes to the Federal Register to open up public comment and federal oversight. So they actually broke three federal laws that we've unearthed at least, to make that change. But here's what it amounts to. Did people die? Yes. But the debate is, did they die from COVID. And traditionally, when someone has pre existing conditions, they are counted as a cause, excuse me, the cause of death is the oldest pre existing condition, not the initiating factor, like the flu or some kind of infection. It's if you had diabetes for 10 years, diabetes is the initial is the cause of death. You know what I'm saying? That's how we've always done it. Right. So what do you need when to make the public think there's an emergency? You need dead bodies? And how do you get those dead bodies or the appearance, you introduce a bioweapon that's going to wipe out a specific vulnerable segment of the population. And then you make sure the recording of that death is the cause is caused by the infection and not the pre existing condition. And the way they went about doing it was completely against the law. And so what that amounts to is criminal data fraud in our allegations and willful misconduct by elected officials, because the result of it has been disastrous across our great nation. And the result of it at the on the financial side of it. Dr. Paul has led to in our allegations, at least $3.5 trillion of US taxpayer money. That's been misappropriated.

Dr. Paul  53:43  
Yeah, it just feels like this massive heist.

Dr. Henry Ealy  53:47  
That's, that's it for lack of, for to simplify it. It is it's it's, in my personal opinion, a murder for profit scheme. And I think that if we allow something like that to go unpunished, then shame on us. Yeah. And it'll happen again. It they'll just rinse, repeat, they'll go to the same playbook over and over and again, and it'll just keep attacking our freedoms. It's like, at a certain point, we have to have the same courage our forefathers our ancestors have and said that freedom is worth fighting for. And so that's what we're doing thanks to the help of a tremendous team that I have, and especially Senator Dennis Linthicum and Senator Kim Thatcher and an attorney Steve Juncus. I mean, I am blessed and people like you, I'm blessed to be around so many great Americans who believe in freedom, we love freedom, and we're willing to fight for it. And that's that's the that's what the fight is right now.

Dr. Paul  54:48  
Yeah. So so give us an update what's going on with the formal Grand Jury petition?

Dr. Henry Ealy  54:52  
Okay, so we filed on March 7, and federal court a, a very unprecedented case. We are not asking the judge to deliberate on the merits of our case. We are saying, Your Honor, it's your duty when presented with this information to get it before a grand jury. Why? Because we went to every single US Attorney in the country and we're basically ghosted. We went specifically to Department of Justice, same thing. They told the senators to kick rocks. And so what ends up happening is the defendants, we informed a gentleman by the name of Scott asbach. He was the acting US Attorney in Oregon. Right and 2021 August 2021. We informed him specifically the senators did. We asked them to investigate these people for our based upon our allegations of criminal activity. Instead of him investigating them, he sent it to the Department of Justice Department of Justice told the senators to kick rocks, right. Fast forward a year later, it's June 27 of this year, we filed our petition, Scott as fog is now assigned to defend these people. Our right now, if that's not good enough, it gets a little bit better. A couple of weeks later, the Department of Justice reassigns him they want him out of here. They want him out of here so bad, they reassigned him to Nairobi, Kenya,

Dr. Paul  56:28  
my old stomping ground.

Dr. Henry Ealy  56:32  
So they and they did it within four days. Wow. He's now out of the country. All right, as of July 17, he's gone. So they assigned now a new US attorney, the new US Attorney requested or I should say Scott asked Bob requested it. But the US Attorney's Office requested an extension of time to August 26. Right now, when you request an extension, and it gets granted by the court, you have to meet that deadline, no matter what.

Dr. Paul  57:01  
So that they came and went what happened.

Dr. Henry Ealy  57:04  
They didn't meet the deadline. They so we filed a motion for Default Judgment immediately after they missed the deadline. Steve Juncus was right on it. Now and and so what they then did was they filed their response a day late and they said, hey, my dog was sick. That's literally what they're attempting to tell the court. The reason that this is late is because for unforeseen circumstances, my dog was sick. Wow. It's like my dog ate my homework. It's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is. So what we're doing right now is we are pushing forward a little bit on the on the default motion. We don't suspect that's going to work with the court because this is a mat we're in we're not afraid of the fight, we want the fight. So it's I don't want to Destiny, it necessarily went on a default I want to win. So I'll take it. But what we are also doing is in parallel, putting together our response because they filed a motion to dismiss on really spacious arguments that weren't very cognizant my opinion or professional, so we're going to annihilate them on that. We are ready. We've been preparing for this moment for a long time. And we got really lucky because Rochelle walensky on the 17th Rochelle walensky, head of the CDC gave us a gift, she gave us the gift of a quote. Let me read that quote for the audience. Okay, give me one second here. She said on August 17. Quote, to be frank, we, the CDC are responsible for some pretty dramatic, pretty public mistakes from testing. And here's the key one, to data to communications. When she admitted that they had made mistakes with data, you can't make mistakes with data as a federal agency. You have to abide by the what's called the information Quality Act and make sure all the data that is published is accurate. That is the charge of every single government agency that the data published for public dissemination is accurate. So she just admitted fraud yet again, this is now the third time we've caught the CDC admitting fraud in terms of death certificates and data and things of that nature. So we're so we have until September 12, to file our response. And that's why I asked you said hey, can I come back on because we want to invite the audience to join us in this fight? How do they help? Go to beyond the con.com? That's beyond the con.com right on the homepage, and we just finished updating this last night, you will see that you can sign on to this petition, say I support this petition. I want to see this grand jury investigate this issue. And what we get to do is a mass all of these numbers, we're shooting for over a million Americans at least a million Americans by September 12. Because then that allows As to go back to the court and tell the court, our standard that we have to prove to the court is that there is significant public interest in seeing a grand jury investigation take place. Awesome. We already have over 150,000 people just starting Americans just starting out. In the next two weeks, we can get this over a million hopefully far over a million and show the courts that there is significant public interest, wanting to see a grand jury investigate these people for crimes, criminal data fraud, and willful misconduct, and we get to their folks, we are going to bury them. And I can't wait. That's why I'm so excited. We are about to take this whole thing down with your help.

Dr. Paul  1:00:43  
Wonderful. So folks go to beyond the con.com. And right on that front page, you're gonna see the link to sign on to this petition. We can do this. We should do this. We need to do this. We must do this. Let's get this done. Thank you, Dr. H for all your hard work, and I look forward to see what happens.

Dr. Henry Ealy  1:01:02  
Thank you, Dr. Paul, and thank you everybody out there listening. We love you so much. Thank you for fighting with us.

Dr. Paul  1:01:13  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com. There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai