​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I am Dr. Paul your hosts we're gonna go farming today. I'm speaking to Helio farm owners Theo and Kira and their daughter, Sonia. We talk about regenerative farming orthomolecular farming, raw milk, the importance of supporting small farmers health and food freedom, and decentralizing farming as a key to future food security. We wrap up the show with an interview with yours truly myself and Didi Hoover, discussing some future projects in something we're calling kids first forever. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I have a question for you today. What are you being called to do? Francis of Assisi said, start by doing what's necessary, then do what's possible. And suddenly you're going to be doing the impossible. Do you have an inner voice, calling you to do something maybe to speak up maybe to resist? I've certainly felt that calling quite a bit the last few years, I had a mom reach out to me just today by email. And she said, I am being told to be quiet at work. She works in a hospital setting and she's seeing things going on that are just not right things that need to be changed. She's advocating for the patients and she's being told she must be quiet. And I know a lot of us have experienced this sort of pressure and censorship from our employers from the society at large human. And I just wanted to say you can be that light, you can be love. You can speak the truth. Do it with courage. Do it with love. You know, it just takes a spark to light a fire. And sometimes maybe we have to be that spark. So I call on all of us. Let's do that. Let's do what we're being called to do. Take a stand. Let's do it for our kids. Let's do it for our families. Let's do it for our nation and for our world. I'm Dr. Paul, thanks

Welcome to against the wind. I have the pleasure of introducing a family that's doing some incredible work in the farming arena. Sonia, finish you are you are the daughter of the couple that sitting with us. Correct. And you are a founder of Oregon LIBERTY NETWORK. We'll have you later. Tell us a little bit about that. And then Theo and Kira Weidman you founded Helios farms in 2012 with a vision of decentralizing the US food supply back to local farms that use no agricultural chemicals or pharmaceuticals, right? Fantastic. I know you've pioneered orthomolecular regenerative farming methods private Association farm business model to drive your vision into reality. So I'm going to be looking forward to hearing more about that. Theo, your background is pretty spectacular. You've got a degree with honors in Engineering Physics from Oregon State University, you founded a publishing company, you founded a technical writing and software localization firm, you produced a documentary film titled grid iron Gladiators, and with Kara you've built a high end recording studio business. Kara, you've boarded and train horses that was in the 80s then you were a commercial artist in the 90s. And you've always raised and butchered your own food animals studying European butchery under the tutelage of a German butcher. So there's so much for us to learn from all of you, the Helios mission, that sort of a convergence I understand the field and curious life experience and applying your farming butchery technical, scientific business, legal culinary, health sciences background, that's a mouthful to create a profitable and resilient livestock farming model. under the pen name, Theo farmer, Theo, you've written about food, health, farming and all of that. So again, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker  4:07  
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Unknown Speaker  4:09  
Very much. Pleasure to be here.

Dr. Paul  4:10  
Perfect. I'm really interested in maybe just to start with just share your backgrounds, the parts that I missed in my introduction, so that people get a better sense of who you are, and then I'll ask you a few questions.

Unknown Speaker  4:25  
Okay, I'll start I was raised on a small farm in Silverton, Oregon and and I work with farmers at that time and out in the fields driving equipment. My parents used to ask me what I was learning out there in the fields and I respond by saying, you I'm learning I don't want to be a farmer. And I think that that was a response to what I saw as far as the commercial farming there was. The farmers didn't seem to have much control over what they plan And then what they put on their fields, cetera, et cetera, and then move forward. You know, I got my degree and I went into technology. So I was a technologist in the 80s and 90s, with software localization. And then in the 80s, and 90s, also, my children had a lot of health issues. I had a son who had a brain tumor and a disabled child. And so that threw me into a look at our medical system. And I didn't, what I saw wasn't very pretty. And so by around the 2000s, I was learning about ortho molecular healing, high dose nutrients, I studied some of the things that Linus Pauling was pointing to. And so we basically we, we came at farming what Kira when had been lactose intolerant all of her life. So she, they call it lactose intolerance. And so if she had any kind of dairy product, it would create huge digestive issues. Right away. We weren't we found out that through some research, that she might be able to handle raw milk. And so we we went out to get raw milk and went to a farm that had it and we got some got a half gallon, and Kira was able to drink the whole half gallon over a couple of days with zero issues. So there were a lot of between the orthomolecular kind of exposure that I had, by the time I was in my 50s, I was realizing that the way we treated our children with all the vaccines and all the pharmaceuticals and all that stuff in the mainstream during the 80s. And 90s was a big, probably a big cause of the problems that they had. And so we started putting our minds to well, how can we do this with no pharmaceuticals? How can we do a farm with no agricultural chemicals we started, when we found out that Kira could drink raw milk, we tried to get on a list to get raw milk steadily. And in Oregon, that what turned out to be a big challenge. The farm that we got it from had a waiting list we got on their waiting list. And they would they never, we never got to the top of the waiting list. So because of my early farm background, we decided well, let's just get our own dairy cow then. And that was about 2008 or 2009. And so we got a cow. And when I had an acre, we had an acre in Corvallis, which is plenty for a cow. And so we started milking her. And then we realized that she was producing five gallons a day, which is way more than one family can drink. So we decided we would share it or sell it. And so we put a fridge on the porch. And then we found out that it was illegal at the time to advertise raw milk in Oregon. And so we we advertised for free we advertised collaborative milk, which is a people who get raw milk would know what what clattered milk is. And so we started right off the bat trying to work around the legal framework in Oregon. And then God told cows to be fruitful and multiply. So after a while, we had six cows on this acre of land in Corvallis. And that's that was actually we were out of compliance with the statutes of Oregon because if you're selling raw milk from your farm, you can only own three cows and only melt two cows. And so we did a little research and we came across the farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund back in Washington DC and they said Oh, you guys have to switch to a herd share contract. And so we we went ahead and started. We worked with them to produce a herd share contract and because we were also offering butchering animals by then we decided we're going to do livestock shares as well. And the idea of contract moving under contract law was really appealing to us. And so then, in addition to that, we were meeting all these amazing people like from the Weston A price foundation and all these folks that knew about really good food and knew the deception of the raw milk thing and all that and so we thought well, at the time I had sold my technology company, I was a consultant and it was like, Alright, why don't we just go into this big time and just do the farming full time. So we ended up moving to this 160 acre farm in young kala. And we came here with about four cows in 2012. And then we those cows now we have 60 cows, so they really do multiply when you put them on land and feed the morass. So yeah, so

Dr. Paul  10:32  
anyway, about herd of 66 Zero.

Unknown Speaker  10:35  
Yeah, 60 cows that were milking 15 Right now, because a lot of them, we raise cows with no pharmaceuticals, no vaccines, and those are really hard cows to find in organic. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  10:49  
The milking must be by machine if you have that many cows.

Unknown Speaker  10:52  
Yeah, we're milking with that we use a surge milker which Cap captures each cow's milk individually. And then we pour it right into the jars from that the surge milk or so the milk we produce is called single milk because the the name of the cow that produced it is on the jar. So

Dr. Paul  11:14  
people get very cool. Very personal. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  11:18  
it's very personal. That's part of what we want to do is reconnect people to the beauty of of the garden essentially, in the end, amazing food supply that God provides. So yeah.

Dr. Paul  11:33  
So you started with cows. Have you expanded beyond cows?

Unknown Speaker  11:37  
Yes, yeah, when we moved here, we, we bought a hog operation, because when you have cows, you have a lot of excess milk. And the traditionally, a dairy has hogs and raises hogs because the skim milk was considered a waste product. And they would use that to feed the hogs and raise the hogs. And so there's this integrated aspect to what we do. We have hogs, we have chickens, we're producing eggs, the chickens love the the their feed to be soaked in sour milk and hogs. Their their stuff is soaked in sour milk. So there's this lacto fermentation that goes on over the last decade. There's a few things that kind of developed early on, we became anti vaccine advocates because we found that we didn't need them for one thing with cows and cows are real similar to people. But also our God or Sonia, who's here had had had had her first child in Corvallis. And he was what's known as a vitamin C baby. Never didn't go to the doctor never got any vaccines.

Dr. Paul  12:53  
So it was like we should let let Sonia tell that story. Yeah. Tell us what it was like growing up with these nutty parents. You No, right. Yeah. And your your journey as as to figuring out how to live healthy and live off the land, so to speak. Yeah, so

Sonja Feintech  13:11  
I grew up in Corvallis. When I got pregnant with my first son at 21. His name is Helios, which is who the farm is named after because he kind of instigated the whole thing, like we eat healthy, and we were pretty mindful about our health. But it really took a turn when I was pregnant with him. And I actually was gifted a book, which is the Weston A price, foundation, wise traditions cookbook. And I started reading that was blowing my mind. And so we went and got the raw milk. And we started learning about vitamin C. And at first when people were like, Oh, are you gonna vaccinate your kid? I was like, Well, yeah, that's just what you do. And then I started kind of thinking being like, Well, if that's my automatic response, maybe I should look into it a little bit more. And so then we started kind of rejecting anything that had an automatic response without thought behind it, and sort of exploring all these different ways of doing things. And then like, via

Dr. Paul  14:06  
that, I want to highlight that, yeah, reject anything that you have an automatic response to. Nobody has ever said that on the show or in my entire life. Knowing what I now know, and I'm 65 You're spot on?

Sonja Feintech  14:20  
Yeah, it's a real thing. Because like, it's like, Oh, who's whose truth? Am I speaking right now? Like, is it something that comes from your parents? Or is it something that comes from the TV? And then if you actually start digging into it being like, oh, okay, like, this actually doesn't come from anywhere. And it's actually it's not truth for me. So then you have to, you know, then you end up researching and digging and whatever,

Dr. Paul  14:41  
you are so brilliant. So you just did another one, whose truth are you listening to or speaking and spouting? I get in these arguments with people I try to say the truth is singular. I mean, the truth is the truth. And then I'll have people come back and say, Yeah, but there's they have their truth. And that's what you're speaking to whose truth are you spouting? And yeah, carry on you, you're just wisdom after wisdom,

Sonja Feintech  15:06  
I have to credit my husband a little bit because he came up with the slogan, whose ideas are your ideas? And that one really, like, set it off for me. So yeah, anyways, it opened up this whole rabbit hole of things. So next thing I know, we've, you know, basically fled Corvallis to this farm in the middle of nowhere, where we're raising cows and, you know, drowning in raw milk and vitamin C and babies and, and it was it was really cool. And I was there with them for about off and on for about 10 years. And I have my second daughter there who was also home birth also unvaccinated. And it's funny, because it's kind of like you live in a, it's a canyon. So you kind of live in this bubble of reality, you're surrounded by, you know, birth and death and harvest and babies and, and all that stuff. And then my husband and I, shortly after we got married, decided to move to Portland, or, you know, access to career stuff for him and activities for the kids. And we thought, Oh, I'll be fine. You know, I've never lived in a city. My husband is from LA. So he was like, okay, you know, here we go. And I was pregnant with my third. So here we are in the city. And we're both from the farm, you know, living rurally. And we're stuck in the middle of Portland during the whole COVID thing. You know, I had my baby in my apartment building in Portland, like, I was still trying to, you know, do my thing. And, and it was pretty wild. That was a really big awakening for me. Because for me, like my, our form of protest, or our way of voting for things was just to do the things. So it's like, why I'm going to protest the pharmaceutical companies by just opting out, and I'm going to protest the vaccination schedule by opting out. But until all of this stuff was really like, at literally at my door, I realized that I needed to get a little bit more involved or I was gonna go mad. I was gonna go crazy in Portland. So I started during medical freedom protests. I actually met you at the vigil because I was on a rampage of meeting anyone and everyone that was a medical freedom leader. And so I actually I think I might have scared you a little bit because I came running up to you from behind was the guy Nice to meet you.

Dr. Paul  17:24  
But you looked familiar now I remember.

Sonja Feintech  17:27  
Yeah, like. And, yeah, sorry, through medical freedom rally in Oregon City on nading. Three years ago now. And it was super successful. And then I started working with free Oregon. So I was the political action director for free Oregon for somewhere under a year just while it was kind of getting on its feet and turning into what it is now. And I was working with Oregonians for medical freedom and children's health defense putting on a bunch of events. We did a big waterfront event with Dell big tree. I don't know if you spoke at that one. Yeah, I was there. Okay, now you were there. So for me, it was it was kind of a crazy escalation for what I'm used to, which is living on a farm and things just being kind of slow, and like you're actually dealing with real life death. But then getting into the political realm of things where you're dealing with things, you know, you're dealing with people and issues and putting on a fence and rallies and, and it was just interesting to have that balance in my life. And now I'm able to pull from my background, which is farming. But then now I have all of these connections and people I've met and leaders and people that are really important, and they have really important things to say out there that need to get out there. And I can kind of put those together into what I'm doing now.

Dr. Paul  18:49  
Thank you so much for that. So this regenerative farming that you're doing, why is it so relevant and describe it in a little more detail?

Unknown Speaker  19:00  
So that this has been developed for us? And it's basically to answer the questions. It's what had gone in 10 with food. And if we erase the last 100 150 years of agriculture, and all that interventions, like, you know, if you look at the vaccine industry, it's about interventions, right? Some kind of story, some kind of disease, and then some kind of prevention, that product that's released. And so man's interventions or God's design, and in our case, we always chose God's design and when you remove all the interventions, what happens is you are stewards of a regenerative process, the soil fertility starts regenerating, the animal health starts regenerating you actually, I would say that we're very complete li eliminating disease with the high dose nutrients and paying attention to microbiome science. So there's a

Dr. Paul  20:11  
true for your livestock as well as your own lives.

Unknown Speaker  20:13  
Yes, yeah. So like especially, yeah, but both really, but the livestock is pretty. They're disease free once you once you've quit, you know, intervening at birth and things like that with shots and their immune systems get stronger and stronger over the years over the seasons. And so

Dr. Paul  20:36  
share with our viewers because this is actually news to me. I know pediatrics, I know medicine, I don't know livestock management, what what kind of vaccination schedule would they typically be on and I, what other interventions are being done in a typical farm that you don't do?

Unknown Speaker  20:53  
So that there's one of the things that we do is we work in the private domain, which means we don't, we don't follow the state threat statutes as far as how to treat cows. But when cows are born, there's vaccine requirements. Essentially, there's diseases that are basically described, and when that disease is described, it has a product that you vaccinate your cat. So tetanus would be a simple example. You know, you give your cow a tetanus shot, if you're going to castrate it. Well, a better approach for us is to learn how to prevent tetanus because it's an aerobic disease. And so if you castrate them in a way that creates an anaerobic situation, then you see tetanus, we saw it once. And that was a big lesson on how to prevent it because we we really neglected that animal created an anaerobic wound, and then it got tetanus and died. So now it's like, okay, so it's so easy to prevent tetanus, you know, so for us, it's about, well, let's learn about the disease or learning about the microbe that they're talking about. Is it really a problem? Is it you know, so there's all these legacy vaccines, like when when a calf is born, you have to give them this, this and this? And it's like, yeah, we're what, what are those diseases about in the first place? Are they some of them marking their requirements for diseases that I think we're kind of architected or there were the, they were products of probably pesticides and chemicals that were introduced on farms, and that created an environment where that the microbes would get out of control or something, and then that would get defined as a disease, they'd come out of the product for disease, it's kind of, and then they would, you know, require everybody to do this vaccine. So there's one of those vaccines that is required, the disease was eliminated in Oregon, like in 1980, that never seen the disease. And I think it was probably a product of some kind of feed thing, pesticide thing, there's so many things that were going on that would cause a microbe to become an overgrowth in a few animals may be that and then they, they, so they create these policies, but the policies that can be re examined and maybe thrown out based on new science. So the science that our farm really goes after is microbiome science and orthomolecular science

Unknown Speaker  23:37  
and I would say one of the major differences between I mean, there's many, they're all different between us and an industrialized food supplies firm is our animals are not concentrated in that way. So they and the ground is not sterile it is it is full chock full of beneficial bacteria that are the animals are interacting with, then they're interacting with the soil. And so we just not seeing the kinds of things that you would in a really barren environment where there's you just got a concentration of animals you have to keep well or looking well with some kind of pharmaceutical product, maybe dealing with symptoms of a really sick system that are in

Sonja Feintech  24:37  
okay, I actually pulled up a shortlist of the vaccines because I was curious to I have written it down before but so it's a ibkr Bvd p 13. Don't know what these are VRSC virus leptospirosis, cholesterol. Cluster deal. I don't know what sure that is. E. coli mastitis calf diarrhea. He had diseases and then annually they do five of those every year, and then different ones prior to breeding. So it's, you know, and I don't even know what those are right? Like, that's, they're just putting those into the cows. And you can go get, you know, organic meat from the store, and it's going to be antibiotic free, and, you know, no more growth hormone and things like that, or no. But they're still getting vaccinated all those vaccines.

Dr. Paul  25:24  
Wow. I had no idea.

Unknown Speaker  25:27  
Yeah. And they're also coming out with mRNA vaccines for cattle sex, right,

Dr. Paul  25:33  
that they're requiring really has that started yet?

Unknown Speaker  25:37  
I'm not sure. Again, we're so we're, we're like, probably not the people that talk to you about what the requirements are. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  25:44  
but that, that just was like a BAM, that yeah, cannot you start eating meat that's mRNA. altered? Yeah, you're putting, you're putting those sequences in your own body.

Unknown Speaker  25:59  
Exactly. And so so when you just brought up this long list of vaccines that they are getting, we don't even know what those are. But those don't think those aren't ending up in the mill, don't take those aren't ending up in the meat. And in the fat, especially.

Unknown Speaker  26:18  
So part of part of our emphasis is, let's pay, let's figure out what God's design was in the first place, because we've lost touch with them. And a really good starting point is to look at our human knowledge of milk. And, and, and the fact that, you know, women when, what, when they're like having children, that's the first time they really get a realization that they're mammals at all, and that they produce milk. And they don't know much about milk, no one ever teaches about milk. But over the years, we've learned a lot about milk, for example, and it has a lot to do with microbiome science. So when a calf is born, it goes up to its mother's ughter, and grabs onto a T and that T is jet is dirty, nobody's washed that teat. So it's getting a sample of the microbiome, basically a mouthful of poo. And that's the microbiome of the whole herd. And then the milk is specifically designed to nourish microbes in the gut along the way. So as the cap is growing, it's nursing. And there's components in mammals milk that don't even nourish mammal cells, they nourish microbial cells. And this is all really comes real clear. If you read like the human super organism, or some of the latest microbiome science, it's about, well, these babies are born as mammal babies. And a big part of the human quest at birth, and the calf quest at birth is to collect all the microbes around them, and let them milk select which ones should be in their gut. And there's certain times in their development where certain microbes are implanted in the gut. So that same thing is true with cows and with humans. And the microbiome is very, very similar in our gut microbiome in that the so when you see a little baby at about two or three months, they start sticking everything they can in their mouth. So they're trying to sample all the microbes around them in the microbiome. And then the milk is nourishing the right microbes and ignoring the pathogenic microbes. And so they get a microbiome garden throughout their gut in as long as there's no interventions. Now, if you look, for example, at Wakefield's work, he was like, well, this vaccine is going right to the gut and destroying the microbiome. And that's kind of a summary of what his paper said, and then it causes this diarrhea and then these kids are, you know, regressing. And so your gut brain and all that all that science is really important in milk. Raw milk is what what creates that balance microbiome.

Unknown Speaker  29:18  
And I want to say that, we like to say that the land of milk and honey was not pasteurized.

Dr. Paul  29:26  
So I want to visit your farm and get some footage for our viewers of what it really looks like working on a farm. And as soon as you build a list of resources, I'll help you get it out there. We this is a real thing. It's a real movement and I consider you guys partners and let's pioneer in this. I have lots to learn from you. You can each give your closing thoughts that you would like the listener to consider.

Unknown Speaker  29:53  
All right, um, my my emphasis is that if we fix it Food System we actually can do, we're going back doing battle with the pharmaceutical system. So the first step is to fix the food system and to really understand it, to understand microbiome, the microbiome is and it's the latest science that is just suppressed sciences not not emphasized to understand that, and the multigenerational aspect of it is where health true health comes from nutrients good a balanced microbiome and, and eliminating these attitudes and things that have been. So if we fix the food system, we re localize it decentralize it. We're going to eliminate the power that pharmaceutical industry has over the over the people.

Dr. Paul  30:50  
Let food be thy health. That's right. Thanks, Kara. What are your closing thoughts? Kara?

Unknown Speaker  30:56  
My closing thoughts are all of you out there who know there's something wrong in the system, you know, deep down, it's one thing or the other, you know, there's something wrong and system, opt out of it. And use your use your strengths to seek action that you can take and skills you can get, and supporting things that you believe in and opt out of the systems that aren't working for you. And that you see aren't working for your neighbors on so this farm

Unknown Speaker  31:34  
here ask how can I help? How can I

Unknown Speaker  31:37  
ask your farm? How can I help today? And we'll tell you and we will help you.

Dr. Paul  31:43  
Fantastic opt out and ask your local farmer and Sonia finish it out for us what do you want people to remember

Sonja Feintech  31:51  
to look at everything that's going on holistically. So the full picture, we do a lot of treating the symptom, you know, we're fighting against that we're we're fighting to keep our kids in these schools we're fighting to, you know, keep our grocery shelves stocked. And, and really, you have to go a little bit farther back and look at as a whole what's broken. And the fact is that all these structures are very, very broken. And we can keep on trying to fight in that system. Or you can say, You know what, let's take a step back. And let's look at what's really important, which is human potential. It all starts with health, you know, you can we can address pharmaceutical issues all day. But why do we Why do they think we need these pharmaceuticals? Why is that such a huge industry? What are we eating? What are they telling us to eat? So it really, it all comes back to a pretty condensed idea about how to fix the broken things? And what might be the answers to some of those questions. And I think that it starts with beginning of life. So you know, babies, what the babies are eating, what the mothers are eating? Where do we get our food, and our connection to all of that. So

Dr. Paul  33:05  
beautiful. I want to thank all three of you. This has been I've got goosebumps kind of interview for me. You all are such a blessing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I can't wait to meet you in person. All right. I'm

Unknown Speaker  33:19  
looking forward to it. Thank you, Dr. Paul.

Sonja Feintech  33:21  
Thank you for having us.

Dr. Paul  33:30  
Dr. Paul, welcome to another episode. This is a unique one. I have beside me DD Hoover, who is an incredible influence in my life. She has been body worker and coach wellness coach for pediatric practice integrative pediatrics for few years now. My own personal wellness coach when I was going through all the stuff I've been going through, we'll chat a little bit more about that. And she is helping me manage this show against the wind and we'll be taking your questions as we go forward. She's the one you're interacting with. So why don't you meet the Hoover? Very close friend and so important and everything we're doing here? Today she's interviewing me, so have at it.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  34:12  
Here we go. All right. Okay, Dr. Vom, so tell me what's happening. I've heard that something's changed in your life with Oregon Medical Board, and your license.

Dr. Paul  34:25  
Big things happens. We're going to share those Can I start a little bit of history for maybe folks who haven't ya heard my story? Yep. Okay. I was raised in Africa, went to medical school, became a pediatrician. When taught residents and medical students went into private practice 13 years into private practice. The last four years I had a child who was doing perfect at age 12 months or 18 months regressed into severe autism by age two, that fourth case broke my heart. I'm still in touch with that family weekly. He's 16. Now he's still nonverbal. He hits his head. It's done. horrendous life and I knew the moment I walked in that day. It wasn't good. So, why, right? Why was this going on? Nobody was answering that question. I've been in a deep dive of research had already come to a understanding, or at least a sense that there's something we're doing that is harming these kids. I was suspicious, it was the vaccines. And it became clear that they were related, as I heard more and more and more stories. So you'll have these parents tell you, my kid got a shot, got a vaccine, and the next day I lost my kit. And you hear that once? That's Oh, that's interesting. What

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  35:37  
a sad by losing their their kid, you mean, they're just

Dr. Paul  35:41  
gone, right? They're not dead. But there's nobody home, right? You go from a smiling, active, interacting talking child, to somebody who's spinning in circles hitting their head, playing by themselves and can't interact or make eye contact. It's devastating. So that's a case of severe autism, hundreds of those stories were rolling in for me. That's when I went to my partners. And I said, I can't do business. As usual. I know, I can't do a hepatitis B vaccine for a newborn who doesn't need it. It doesn't make sense. That vaccine has so much aluminum. And there's zero need for it for those moms who are known to be happy, negative anyway, as one example. So I started integrating pediatrics, we had a different vaccine schedule. Let's fast forward a number of years. Now it's becoming real clear. As more and more families are joining in, I'm having more and more families who are choosing not to vaccinate. So how can you allow that Doc? Right? Well, we give informed consent. So if you came to me and you said, we have autism in our family, we have story after story of kids getting shots and going into severe autism, we don't want to vaccinate our kids anymore. I would honor that. That's informed consent, the foundation of our office. So then I wrote the vaccine friendly plan. It was published in 2016. It was just a different way of doing things. There's the CDC schedule. There's other ways of doing things. It wasn't like mine was the only book there's the vaccine book Dr. Sears wrote, which gave some other ideas. And that seemed to start the process that starts approaching your question, right. So the medical board starts coming with various complaints and complaints and complaints. And some of you been watching the show know that. It's come to a head. So in January of 2019, I got a letter saying prove that the vaccine friendly plan is as safe as the CDC schedule. I remember when that letter going, This is ridiculous. How can you prove it? The CDC can't prove that what they're doing is any better than what they did the year before, or any better than doing nothing? Or it's just they just do. Somebody gave me the idea, do a quality assurance analysis of your data. Brilliant. So we hired an expert to come in independent thinker, this guy's he came in says, you know, I'm a nerd. And I just go with the data. I don't know what we're going to find this. And I don't know either. I was a little suspicious. I knew what he'd find. But I really didn't know. First day comes up.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:09  
Are you nervous? Slightly?

Dr. Paul  38:12  
I kind of knew, but you just don't know. Right? Right. And the point is, if we had found out that kids who were following the vaccine friendly plan, we're in danger. I needed to know that. Or if they're benefiting from it, that'd be important information as well. When it comes out of the office, the first day of diving into the data says, I know I'm not supposed to notice the data. I'm just gathering it. But Paul, this is incredible. Your unvaccinated patients just don't get sick. Those were his exact words. And he went on and spent a week got all the data collected at all. We published it in what became the real powerful real world data Vax on vac study, with Jack Lyons Wheeler that was ultimately retracted.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:52  
Thankfully, just because it retracted.

Dr. Paul  38:56  
One complaint, who said that it's invalid, he hypothesized that people who don't vaccinate, they don't go to health care visits, they don't seek medical care. So of course, your data is going to show that the unvaccinated don't have much going on because they never see doctors anyway. It's actually theoretically a very good point. So we had already looked at it, and we actually addressed it in the first article, but a second article was just published that did a deep dive into that question, and found that our Unvanquished patients had more well child visits than their vaccine counterparts. So completely put to rest that major complaint that that person had made. So we now in addition to that this new publication that Jack Lyons Wheeler and Russell Blaylock did, Russell Blaylock pediatric neurologists written a lot extensively was let's look at what happens when patients stop vaccinating and compare them to those who continue vaccinating out. If you had proposed that question to me, my theory would have been those who stopped vaccinating. They're seeing a problem. Those who continue vaccinating have healthy kids are not worried about it. So I would have thought it would have shown that those who stopped vaccinating have more damaged kids more sick kids more issues, they found the exact opposite. Those who stopped vaccinating at whatever point they stopped, compared to those who continue vaccinating. It was like four or five times as many health problems for those who continue vaccinating.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  40:33  
Well, that makes sense to me. If you think about it, it does, yes. Because if you're doing something that's not good for you, or you could have a reaction to and you stop it, then you're not going to have a reaction. If you keep vaccinating, then there's a possibility of having a reaction.

Dr. Paul  40:48  
You're absolutely right. In fact, that is why we would advise in our practice, that if you're seeing something of concern, just stop, don't keep pounding them with something that might be causing a problem. So we think a lot of like, now, let's fast forward to December of 2020. They take my license on an emergency basis, because I'm a threat to public health. This was five days after my article was just published, which was a strange coincidence, to sequences to coincidence, six months later, they gave it back because they realized they had taken it without.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  41:25  
I remember that a friend of yours suggested that if it was illegal, then Why could they do it?

Dr. Paul  41:30  
Yeah, that friend happens to be sitting right here. Anyway, that was a really good idea. By the way. You have good ideas. Thank you. Sometimes, Why hang on to this one. All right. So let's just fast forward. I've had 30 Plus letters from the board requesting various things, no patient complaints, but complaint complaint letters, they call them since I lost my license. That's about one a month or no more. It's it's just been an incredible. They have stacked up this list of complaints. And unsubstantiated that really, I couldn't refute them. We could fight them. And we have. But what was coming down the pike was a three week hearing with the Oregon Medical Board, which for can you

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  42:21  
explain what what a hearing is as opposed to a trial?

Dr. Paul  42:25  
Yes, a trial, especially at trial by jury, then you are given that opportunity to have your peers the jury assess the validity of the complaints and the information of both sides. And that should be a fair way. It's actually an a wonderful thing we have in our country, not that all trials are end up fair, but at least you have a shot. When it's just in front of a judge, if it was a neutral judge, and the judges rulings were binding. There's possibility you could get a fair trial there as well. What happens in Oregon is is an Oregon State appointed judge, you're going up against the Oregon State Medical Board. On top of that, the judge just makes recommendations. So imagine, we've got these 30 letters of complaint six different formal complaints, things as minut as well, you ordered MMR titers on a patient 10 years ago, and the mumps was not active. So you should have had that patient get the mumps vaccine. Well, they didn't want it. But I should have made it happen. And I didn't. So that's a violation. And you could get fined violation of what standard of care. This is what medical boards use nowadays are actually going after you for misinformation and disinformation. But we don't even need to go there with mine. It was simply this sort of standard of care notion. And what was odd about this one for me was really it all boiled down to informed consent. The Oregon Medical Board was challenging my right to provide informed consent. I was

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  44:01  
supposed to be there just because I think most people understand what informed consent means. But just clarifying that informed consent means you're telling somebody correct, like informed consent in regards to a vaccination, is you explaining what that vaccine is what it is for everything about it, correct? Yes. And then that means the parent then has the right to choose because they've been given informed consent. Is that

Dr. Paul  44:29  
right? Yeah, you should be given the pros, the cons and the alternatives. So in the case of a vaccine, you should have the option to take it or not take it. That's informed consent. If there's no option, and this is what's happening in all pediatric practices around the country, almost all you have to take the CDC schedule or there's the door. Right, they're calling that informed consent because I'm going to hand you this little thing called vizzes Vaccine Information Sheet put out by the CDC, that kind of touches very minimally on problems with vaccines, but oh, look at all these diseases that we're going to save you from. Now you've been informed, the nurse will be in with your vaccine. If you don't want it well then out. That's not informed consent. That's coercion. It's, it's what's going on in this country? Right? Yep. So we provide informed consent. And that's apparently not okay.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  45:26  
Right. So sorry, you're gonna fight them.

Dr. Paul  45:30  
So you ask tough questions. I am in this till I die as far as fighting for kids freedom, fighting for informed consent, and doing what's right. You know, when you know what's right, and you turn your back to that? I can't do that. So I wanted to fight all the way. Right. There's this three week hearing, that's a kangaroo court that is every single attorney I've consulted, said yes, you will lose. And as you lose, you will pay for your attorneys fees, their attorneys fees, and the fines and the way the board had stacked up all these MMR little things, almost 100 of those and the fine could be in the millions, certainly up to a million and all their fees. And it when every expert I talked to says, Paul, I don't What are you doing? Right? And I even had a very prominent attorney from back east say, well, we just had a win in Maine, we you should fight it. So I looked into it, that that doctor who won in Maine had a jury trial, right? Oh, if we had a jury trial, let's go right. So rather not, you're done. So rather than fight that, we have just this is the breaking news you've been trying to get to. Sorry, it took so long. I just wanted people to have the history. So with a lot of thought and deliberation, and that still doesn't feel right, that I had to sign this thing to let it go away. But my attorney was able to negotiate them writing off everything. They're dropping everything except they get to file because it's the law. This was so annoying. They get to file all their charges anyway, with the national data bank. So people who go to the national data bank will think, oh, wow, this guy's terrible, because they use all these derogatory terms about you, that have not been proven right. And I didn't get my day in court. But it wouldn't have mattered how they had my day in court, the system is just rigged in that way. So I'm continuing to fight in this way. I'm fighting the board by suing them individually. And I'm told that won't go well. But we can appeal. And more importantly, we have this show, right? We have a new program that I'm starting called Kids First forever, with somebody very near and dear to me. Oh, that's, you know, yeah. So that's going to be a way that we can educate, we can inform, we can teach, we can. So you're not going to have a license, but I won't be licensed. So I will not be diagnosing and treating in Oregon in Oregon. I currently have a license in Washington and Hawaii and I may choose to get licensed in other states, or try to. It's very difficult, I believe I'm told that

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:15  
there's better ways to do what you want to do, right? Absolutely. So what are you gonna do?

Dr. Paul  48:19  
Do what I'm supposed to do? Okay, well, when

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:21  
do you no longer have a license?

Dr. Paul  48:23  
That will be on December 5? This year? So in about five weeks? Okay. Six weeks, seven weeks?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:29  
Okay. Five? Are you excited?

Dr. Paul  48:32  
Actually, I am. So I have to tell you. If it weren't for this woman here, I would be a mess. You have this ability to coach in in a such? I don't know how to put it. You never told me what to

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:52  
do. I guess it's not up to a coach to tell you what is what

Dr. Paul  48:54  
do you want to do? Well, I don't know. What do you want to do? I don't know. And you will have you thought about this. And it just is such a such an amazing process. And I've watched you coach teenagers who are anxious, depressed, going, suicidal going through, and I've watched them just blossom. So I thought, wow, what better than pairing up with somebody with that skill set? So I'm excited about kids first forever. I'd be kind of curious to ask you now. What's your vision for kids first forever? And what's yours? What led you to want to do this?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  49:34  
Well, as you know, and one thing I want to say about coaching is that you are coachable. There are times when I'm when I'm coaching whether it's kids or parents and you have to work to make the changes and to see things and for you. I'm going to tell on you now. Oh my god years ago, you had such a big huge ego and just thought you knew every Thinking. And you would talk to people that way. And because you did, you did know what was right and wrong for these people's kids and your mind, you knew those things. But I think sometimes, like I learned with you and you learned through is that we all have the soul, there's four parts to us, which is what kids first forever is about. And that is your spiritual connection. And I think that's one of the most important physical, mental and emotional, everything that you went through with, with the state. And now with your practice, because I know that's another question you should probably answer is people want to know, I mean, integrated pediatrics is, it's amazing. It's one of the very, very few types of this pediatric clinic where parents get informed consent. I know, it's one of the only ones in Oregon and very, very few across the world. So I know that you starting that baby and having that that it was important to you to find something to be able to continue to do that, and is working so closely together. And in the same office, seeing what my work represented and working with these kids from birth up that it helped you to see, maybe your soul kind of got stuffed a little bit. And so you woke up. And I don't, I don't know if I'm supposed to talk to the camera or not. But for those of you that are out there, the difference is and the work that Dr. Pol put forth, is so powerful, and was so needed to be able to help so many people, he's done it through this show, he still continues to do it with his patients, and everybody around you. And being able to come to that place has been I have to tell you, it's been an incredible thing to watch and to see. And to know that I helped you to lie No. So kids first forever is about those four areas. And I had a very rough childhood, and a lot of things that that I that I struggled through, I had a rough time as a teenager and coming into my own and finally finding my passion, which was to work to help people prevent pain. And I started off when I first started going to body workers started with pregnancy and infinite work. And then all of a sudden, I started to notice, especially about 1015 years ago, people were becoming addicted to pain medications. And some people wanted massage to help with the pain, but it wasn't preventing it. It was dealing with it. It was band aids and things to help get through pain. And I was like, I want to work on the side of preventing pain. And pain isn't just physical. It's emotional. It's spiritual. It's, it's mental. And there's so many mental health issues and watching what people were going through my own family, my own sister, losing her battle with mental health and drug addiction. So I want to prevent it. So I thought, Oh, I prayed for a pediatrician. About seven years ago, God handed me one to work with to work in your practice to help kids. And I we started with kids with scoliosis, and some older kids and wellness coaching and all that working with sports. These kids already had pain. I'm like, What the heck, they're having pain. You I was working on five year olds with migraines, what is going on? So came into the clinic started working with you with newborns. And it was like, Oh, my goodness,

Dr. Paul  53:17  
you stole my title to I was the baby whisperer. Folks, there is no better baby whisperer than this one when you get a baby in your hands, and they just melt. And I thought it was magic, because I didn't realize you were working. Right.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  53:30  
But that's where we start. Is it birth? Birth can be traumatic. Yeah. So starting then, and raising kids in this healthy way. That was my passion. I wanted to prevent what happened to me as a child from happening to other kids. So I just came up with kids first forever. And you were you're living it and doing it too. So we decided to join forces.

Dr. Paul  53:53  
And I think we'll be a pretty strong team. I have some medical background, you have this wisdom and ability to touch the soul even plus the bodywork talent and skill and ability. What we've been able to do already is incredible. And now we're going to bring it to the world. So this is pretty exciting.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  54:11  
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So we have a speaking event coming up. You have a speaking event coming up and I know that we speak together but so I want to ask you when you're up in front of these huge audiences and talking to people I know some people will call you that you're an anti Vaxxer and you have a vaccine friendly plan book Correct? Correct. And someone asked me one time so now we're gonna switch to some of the questions that I get

Dr. Paul  54:38  
before we go to the questions okay, brought up integrated pediatrics and some of the viewers are going to be my patients from integrated pediatrics and most already know that, you know, I'm retiring on December 5, actually, the last day of November is my last day of seeing patients. The beauty is the incredible blessing. Is that the nurse prac petitioners who work here are all staying, a couple of them have stepped up to say we're going to keep it going, we're going to essentially purchase the essential elements of this practice. So we just stay the same place the same team, and no one's been with you. They beat me from the start. And you know what's amazing. So I've been seeing a lot of patients, I opened up my schedule these last two months, just hey, come see me with any kind of acute problem. I don't care what it is, you want to come see me one last time. So I'm seeing, you know, 1015 20 patients a day and every single one is staying with integrated pediatrics because they love

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  55:34  
but it's not integrated pediatrics, it is not.

Dr. Paul  55:37  
Sorry, good clarification. We are closing integrated pediatrics. It's changing its name to Northwest pediatric integrative medicine. But it's the same team. It's the same group, and they provide informed consent. They're going to vaccinate those who want to be vaccinated. If you want the CDC schedule, you can have it. But you can also do now and if that's what you really feel compelled to do. There's choice, right? Parent's choice informed consent, ethical medicine. So that is a huge blessing and a huge weight off my shoulders. When I was struggling. And you remember, I'm losing everything. I'm losing my license, I'm losing my practice, like what's going to happen? It's just going to fall apart. And it's all coming together as if it were in some higher power plan or something. Hmm, maybe? Yeah. All right. I interrupted.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  56:24  
So what was I saying? Forgetting to? So no, so some of the questions like what you're going to be doing, you're still you're able to do research. Now you're still able to do a lot of things and talk because it's free speech. You're not diagnosing or treating or anything like that. But a big part of that I know when you're talking is that some people have a difficult time with you because they think you're just an anti Vaxxer. And that's just vaccines. So what do you say to those people that think you're an anti Vaxxer?

Dr. Paul  56:59  
So a lot of parents who've had a, they were vaccinating according to what their doctor said, most anti Vax parents were former fully Vax, Zen ating parents, they had an injury. And then nobody would listen to him. Right. And so being shunned and shift shifted to the side, they go to the truth of what happened. And the truth is vaccine for them caused injury. And why would you go and risk another injury to another child or continue to potentially injure the child who's injured. So it's just a derogatory label for somebody who's actually vaccine risk aware, right. And so I like to use that term rather than anti Vax, I would be completely all in on vaccines, if you had a safe vaccine that had been properly tested with true placebo, and you looked at all health outcomes, that has never been done for a single vaccine on the planet. And they've certainly never looked at the full schedule. So as the CDC added vaccine after vaccine after vaccine, the childhood schedule now if you follow the whole thing through AJ teen, it's over 70 different vaccines given and half of them are in the first two years of life while your immune system is trying to process self and non self. And it's insane, right? So I'm anti the current vaccine schedule. And I'm anti the current vaccines, because they have not been properly tested. Right. But if we had a very deadly disease, and we did the proper sort of development, and safety testing, I'm all in, you shouldn't have to coerce people to get a vaccine. I mean, if you've got a real threat, and you've got a really great product, people are going to line up,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  58:49  
right? Well, you're not going to have the response. So you do want to know what I say instead of anti bad want to know, what do you say ProHealth? All right, I'm pro making the choices that are best for my child. And all of us, including me, always did not always make the best choices. But the more information that's out there, and the more that we see, then yeah, we have to make those choices based on health. So that brings us to one popular question that I'm seeing all the time. It's slowing down a little bit, but that is polio. People are saying that Polio is back and they want to vaccinate their children for this but you somewhere along the line, someone said that you don't need to you said that you you didn't need to.

Dr. Paul  59:33  
So until I lose my license, I could be accused of giving medical information. So I have to be a little careful about right. You know, how I educate

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  59:44  
now what I what I want to know is tell me about like why is there fear right now the New York thing? Yeah.

Dr. Paul  59:51  
So they found through PCR testing of sewage, some poliovirus have the vaccine strain. So in parts of the world, they still do an oral live virus so it can stay in your system. So if you're over in India, Pakistan, who knows where they're still doing a live oral polio vaccine, you traveled in New York, you use the flush toilet and flush it into the sewer. They test it. Oh, we've got polio in New York. Alarm alarm. Right, right. Well, I think you could probably identify any virus in the world in a sewer. Honestly, using PCR techniques, the the real issue is, what percentage of New Yorkers given the fact that we have flush toilets, and we hand wash before we eat, right? I mean, come on, the risk is is as close to zero as it gets. Right. So there's just no risk. So even though that vaccine is not that dangerous in my mind, right? There's also

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:00:51  
part of it with just vaccines in general, it's like you said, if there's some deadly thing going around, and there's a safe way to prevent it, and who's going to be effective, then why wouldn't you write? So I think that we should go to the CDC, and tell them to start making vaccine safer.

Dr. Paul  1:01:11  
I think that would be a great idea. Oh, have you go tell him and let me know how it goes.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:01:16  
Okay. Thanks for watching.

Dr. Paul  1:01:20  
D thank you for interviewing me today. Thanks for letting me this was really good. We should do this more often. Okay. Those of you have been watching this show. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Don't forget to go to against the wind. We have growing resources available for you there. And then there's also kids first forever, kids first, the number four ever.com, where we will also be providing the ability to get coaching and other information.

Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I interviewed Dr. Monique Robles. She is a pediatric critical care specialist and a bio ethicist. We talk about the weaponization of the medical establishment, the serious consequences of these mRNA injections. She also serves as a medical witness supporting parental rights and folks that's hard to come by. He has put together a whistleblower report this airs on America out loud weekly. We've got a closing message for parents about COVID vaccines and vaccines in general Bernadette closes out the show with what you do when you go to the state capitol and talk to senators and politicians. And she covers some vital information we all need to know about these lobbyists who are filling these halls. Very interesting information. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I'm calling this segment Love is the reason. And I have a story that was incredibly impactful to me. Just this past week, while at the Oregon coast, at my house there. There was a knock on the door at about 1115 at night, I was just getting ready to go to bed. And a neighbor was saying, Did you know the house down the street is on fire.

And so we walked out. Take a look at this and this home was completely engulfed in flames. I mean, the sparks were flying 100 200 feet into the air.

This is a forested area on the Oregon coast and trees all around. And the first thought to me was this neighborhood's going down, we need to evacuate. So what do you take in a split second, when you've got maybe a minute or two, grab cell phones, computers and got out of there.

Long story short that next morning.

We were drawn to go see what happened. And standing in front of a completely burned down home smoldering. Still a few flames in the ashes was a couple who that was their home. They had lived there for 50 years. They were in their early 80s. He was an artist, a musician, a writer, nothing backed up on the cloud. They lost everything.

They weren't even wearing their own shoes, they had to leave in a split second in their pajamas. They didn't even take their keys or their wallet, everything gone.

And they were standing there in complete shock. And I just get a chill thinking about what that must have been like to lose absolutely everything.

The incredible thing about this experience was there was a sense of peace even in this state of shock that they were in.

We were able to befriend them. We hadn't actually met this couple before, even though they'd lived there for 50 years, and helped them get a cell phone, some basic underwear, socks, T shirts, some of the basics. There was a love connection, and a piece about this whole thing even though they're starting from absolute scratch.

And I was just impressed by the fact of what love can do. The fact that we're not alone,

and we're called to be there for one another. There's this was a time of real darkness, I'm sure in their lives that despair that we saw that first day and yet there was a light in this darkness. And so I feel like it's a calling to all of us to be a light and to be love to one another.

Welcome Dr. Monique Robles. It is such a privilege and an honor to have you back on against the wind. 

Thank you. It's good to be here. It's good to be back. You know, viewers may not know that. I get the pleasure right now of talking to somebody who's appear. You are an expert in the field of Pediatrics. But beyond that you are in critical care. I remember going through my training. I loved critical care, but boy, that's hard work and long hours. But the unique thing really beyond that is that you are a bio ethicist and a mom. So you bring all of this together, and you've got a powerful voice right now. I can't wait to hear what you're going to share with us.

Maybe before I start asking you a few questions, just give me a what's on your mind today.

Monique Robles, MD  4:40  
 Yeah, um, so Paul, we have chatted, I've recently been doing a sort of a series of articles on the attacks on our children. Really, that's what's happening in our culture right now. And I'm trying to decipher in my mind how all these attacks can be categorized because that's what we do.

Medicine, right? We, we sort of put things into categories, whether it's systems or diseases or processes, but it helps us to understand things better. And so when I can categorize things, it helps me to go through a differential basically. So when I started thinking more about the tax on on our children in society,

I began to, we have direct attacks, we tend to think about direct attacks that affect them. And those can be immediate, or they could be, you know, harmful, and potentially life threatening, but but not immediate. And then we have indirect attacks on children that come via typically removal of parental rights or sort of medical kidnapping that's starting to come to the stage. Yeah.

Boy, you use the term which I just read in one of your blogs, weaponization of the medical establishment. And it was like, how perfectly put that that's what's happening. And yet I don't think most of our physicians are aware of it. Yeah, I don't think you're aware of it. If you don't, if you don't look for it, right. And you're you're so engrossed in what's happening in medicine, because you're a part of it, or you've trained and you have missed the periphery of what's happening. But really, if we look back over the years, medicine has become a weapon. It's been politicized. And we I think we can really see that that in the past, probably two and a half, what, two and a half, almost three years now, in what's happened with censorship, doctors not allowed to be doctors, doctors not allowed to take care of patients, how we know best, and how we can interact and treat each personal patient based on their disease processes based on many factors that the government doesn't know. They're not the medical experts. And so, yeah, it's and I believe that what's happening is that medicine is being used for purposes that never was intended. Yeah, we're not we're not healing people. Yeah. Why isn't that the truth? There's more.

Dr. Paul  7:34  
I've got a few years on you. And I've seen us veer away from the healing concept to it's all just diagnose and treat. And the more diseases we can have, the better it's more money. I don't know. It's crazy. On the indirect attacks, I just had an experience and mom came into my clinic today, I'm still seeing patients. I've got another six weeks before I relinquish my license and retire from that part of my career. But yeah, that's right. Yeah, I had a mom come in today, I was a follow up hospitalization for asthma. And the child was seven years old, never been asthmatic before had a sudden severe attack, you would understand this because if she wasn't in the ICU, she should have been she was on a continuous NEBS for several hours, SATs that went as low as the 70s. And, but responded thankfully, beautifully well, and ended up back in her room within 24 hours. And prior to discharge. They were going to vaccinate her this was a completely unvaccinated child. And then two nurses came in and did a head to toe skin examination. Because she, after she wouldn't vaccinate, the nurse said, Oh, and left came back with two nurses, and they did a head to toe skin exam. I mean, for those of you watching those things have nothing to do with the care of an asthmatic. And I think, reading between the lines, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, but I remember being in training, and we were always taught to watch out for child abuse, right. I mean, I in fact, I was a child abuse expert for many years. And one of the things you do is look for bruising and all of that, well, the hospital systems, and this was our best pediatric hospital in town. But hospitals in general, I think go a little far when it comes to securing the safety of the child, oh, this is an unmatched child, therefore they must be it must be

unsafe, and then they take it to that next step.

Monique Robles, MD  9:30  
Elaborate, if you will, I think this ties into some of the things you're doing. Sure. It sounds like in the scenario that you just presented that it's looking for more evidence of abuse of the child when really based on the data that's coming out that there's not an abuse of the child but in the medical community or what we know is the medical establish

Given how we've been trained, is that vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate, and that's the only way to go. And if a parent or a guardian questions that, then they must be, they must not be, they must not have the best interest of the child in mind.

But the question becomes, have we had a dialogue with that parent to understand their rationale as to why the pupil have be will make decisions for reasons not just on the cuff? We make decisions we make conscientious decisions, because of our experience are?

Dr. Paul  10:46  
What's happened to other people that we know that, that maybe the nurses don't know. And so I think there's it's just understanding sort of the bigger picture where an individual is coming from? Well, and, and wouldn't it maybe even go a little further. So when I started medicine in pediatrics, I had no clue that there was a problem with any vaccine, I really believed, from the core of my heart that vaccines were safe and effective. I didn't know back then that that was a marketing slogan.

All interventions have potential risks. And most interventions have potential benefits. But it's all about weighing those out. And so I think these parents, oftentimes, at least in my experience, because I have about a third of my patients who don't vaccinate at all, by their choice that come to my practice, because they've already done the research, they've already figured out they don't want to, and they're kicked out of other practices.

You're absolutely right, they've done a lot of research, and they're not making that decision lightly. In fact, most of them are afraid to go to a hospital, because they're afraid of just this thing. They're gonna get child protective services involved. So this subset of people are sort of going underground.

Monique Robles, MD  12:00  
That's a great point. I love how you said that.

It's all the slogan has been safe and effective. But we don't say that about any other medication or intervention, that it's 100% safe is basically what's implied, and that it's going to do its job with with no risk. You that's a that's a great point. And it is interesting, because it's true that a lot of these these

individuals, if they do go quote, underground, then that makes them more of a target, right? It's like, Well, why didn't you bring in your child for this visit? Or why did you wait so long? Yeah, because it's creating an environment of fear when, when our duty is to take care of all of humanity,

Dr. Paul  12:54  
based on just the dignity of the human person, and not to judge, we make those decisions. And we we can make some judgments, the more we understand where for us, the parents are coming up from and then looking at just the child in general, the you know, what's the way? How do they interact? I mean, there's so many, there's so many things that we can look at, to get a big picture. Ya know, you're so right. I mean, you've got a happy, thriving child is developmentally on schedule, or advanced and making amazing eye contact. They're, they're just, you know, you see these kids who are so alive and interacting beautifully with their parents than on a single parameter. They're not vaccinating, you're gonna call them neglectful parents. It's exactly Yeah, exactly. So let's, let's pivot. Now, we talked about the direct and indirect attacks on our children, I think you have done some pretty clear writing and speaking about direct attacks, we're talking about end of life things abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, fill us in on what you see as some direct attacks that we need to become aware of as parents. Right. So we were very well aware of the abortion industry, and with the recent overturn of Roe v. Wade, and bringing those that decision back to the States. And it is it's a sad, it's a sad era in medicine to think that over 63 million children have been aborted since 1973. And, you know, the fight still continues, where, you know, there are some states that

Monique Robles, MD  14:39  
allow even up to term, the removal of a child from the womb

euthanasia now euthanasia is not legal here in the United States. We do have physician assisted suicide in many states. But euthanasia is the act

Fuel injection or administration of the of the life ending medication by the physician to the person seeking to end the life. But it is

legal in a couple countries for minors. So we if you think of the Netherlands, and I believe this was first legalized in 2002. And then soon after Belgium, now there is a caveat. In the Netherlands euthanization of children zero to one is allowed. And then 12 and older. In Belgium, they run the whole spectrum of age. So there's no age limit. I did not know that in those countries, who gets to decide that this child can be basically killed? Right? So well, the decision is, if you think about children can't give the consent and especially if they're infants, there's there's no input, it becomes it comes down to the parents and the physicians based on subjective

criteria. Really what you know, some of it, I guess, you could consider objective a child who has a,

quote, terminal illness and not expected to live, you know, very long. So and they categorize those by what's known as the Gron engine protocol. And so those are for infants one and under, they sort of classify them, I believe there's five categories that they put them in those with immediate life threatening

illnesses or diseases, those who are incurable. And so they look at the suffering of the child, but then I begin to question Is it the suffering of the child or this or the suffering that the community or the parents are going to have to endure and taking care of the child? So and then the minors 12 and older in the Netherlands, supposedly the children have

some sort of say, and that they have been discussing in the Netherlands to also

incorporate the one through 12 age range as Belgium already has done.

Dr. Paul  17:25  
I have a case when I was in residency, I was a second year pediatric resident. And I was at a hospital that had no attendings. And I was taking care of a really critically ill child in the ICU. Nobody else was willing to manage that child. And they were terminal. I mean, I started an IV on a thumb, you know, it's like, it's all that was left. And I remember the parents anguish and thinking, Boy, wouldn't it be? Wouldn't it be more kind to just let this patient, you know, succumb, which was the most likely inevitable outcome. And that was one thought. But I have another story that just like, whoa, gives me chills. So a mom, paramedic mom in the shower, her nine month old baby dies, in what we would term SIDS in the lingo of pediatricians. She comes out her baby is not breathing in blue and resuscitate this baby. She doesn't know if it was 510 minutes, something like that, since she had last been in touch with the baby. That little baby was in my practice until about age six or seven, completely stiff, vegetative.

The MRI or CT scan of the brain showed nothing but brainstem, from what I can tell just a hollow skull, and that they were hospitalized two, three times for antibiotics because the parents still wanted to do everything. And then they moved away. They came back to our area when the child was about 13. Walking and talking.

Yeah, well explain that.

Oh, folks, sometimes, you know, there can be the tiniest amount of brain left and it takes over somehow now it wasn't perfect speech. And it wasn't perfect. ambulation it was very clumsy. But personality was there. There was there was a real human being there. It just sort of shows we shouldn't play god I guess. Oh, absolutely. God knows how to play God.

Monique Robles, MD  19:30  
Right God knows how to be God and that I think that just goes to show that

Dr. Paul  19:37  
we are only the instruments. There's a greater plan and and who knows how many prayers those parents said so. Yeah. So I'm gonna pivot to a more complicated topic of grave concern these days.

What are your thoughts about I know you've thought about this and written a little bit about putting

Initial deadly consequences of mRNA injections. Sure. You know,

Monique Robles, MD  20:06  
my concern really is just the just the product in and of itself is unlike any other injection or any other vaccine that we give to children on the immunization schedule. It's a whole new platform.

And it was rolled out very quickly. The trials were meant, basically what we were told

was effective was really manipulation. Just to get the, the products out. We've had the, you know, the the recent bombshell report that the from the Pfizer executive at the European Parliament say, Oh, we never, we never tested transmission, the decrease in transmission with these products, we had to get it out at the speed of science.

So we know it's not a vaccine, it doesn't prevent transmission, it doesn't prevent the severity of disease.

And and the the harms that are that are coming, there's no benefit to children. We know, we know that we've seen that for two and a half years, children do well, there's no benefit. There's only harm. And, and that in of itself is a fundamental

principle in in medicine. And the the ethics of medicine is that first do no harm. And we are creating harm, and we're creating a population really of diseased. And and children are dying from these injections. So it's it's a grave concern I have.

Unknown Speaker  22:00  
Yeah, well put.

Dr. Paul  22:03  
It boggles my mind. As we speak, I think we're pre recording this ahead of time, as we speak, I believe the hcip is is discussing, adding this injection, like you said, we can't even call it a vaccine, it doesn't prevent transmission. It's basically without benefit. And especially in children, at least, it's all harm. And yet, I get the sense they will just rubber stamp this approve it, add it to the childhood immunization schedule. And that way the pharmaceutical industry will be forever protected from liability, all the harm and burden of the damage that this is going to cause falls on you the parents. Right. Right. So you know, the emergency use authorization gives them

Monique Robles, MD  22:54  
liability protection. But once it's on the immunization schedule, you're right, Paul, that's that's is a stamp that we can move forward. And we will continue to profit off of this and we won't be held accountable. And that's nowhere in medicine. Should we allow harm, and then no accountability.

Dr. Paul  23:23  
So as an ethicist, what can we do? Because we pediatricians have been silent too long, on this very issue that these medical products are forced on our children

with no liability and no recourse in fact, if you have a damaged vaccine injured child, even if it might just be a vaccine injury, right? Sometimes you don't know. But your child was what one way totally fine. And then after the series of vaccines or this vaccine there, they're not fine. Pediatrics, pediatricians, we got to wake up

Monique Robles, MD  23:59  
there, you know, and I think there are many waking up. The concern is just is we're hard to find because we're being censored

and silenced. And so that's why it's important to have these voices through the Children's Health defense.

Through your show through organizations, like I said, with truth for health, it's important because these really are at the heart of taking care of humanity, and what needs to be done. So how is your career changed? Have you had any changes from when you were hospitalists working in the ICU? Oh, yeah. So so my position was terminated. Because I didn't receive one of these injections. So it has it had I've had to pivot into these advocacy roles.

I'm a to be a voice. Not at the bedside right now. But a voice in the bigger picture of, of really so many of these attacks that we're talking about. Yeah. So you your career got derailed? Have you been challenged with regards to your license? Not yet. Okay, good. I'd say Not yet.

And hopefully not as it shouldn't, it shouldn't be an issue. I've never had any malpractice or any.

My license is clean, like my career has been clean. Because I, I take care of my patients. Yep. Yeah, I had a similar track record. But I, I'm in a state where

Dr. Paul  25:48  
that didn't seem to matter.

And I'm a little too vocal, I was speaking out in front of the steps of the Capitol and things like that. And

Monique Robles, MD  25:58  
but that's a concern, because then it's, then we're going into constitutional rights.

Unknown Speaker  26:05  
Yep.

Dr. Paul  26:07  
So one of the one of the areas that I think parents have a really tough time is the legal side, once the system has come down upon them, let's just say it could be Child Protective Services overreach, or it could be

they're somehow in trouble with a custody issue where one parent has custody and wants medical freedom to maybe let's say, not do a vaccine, and then the other parent

sort of gets the upper hands just simply because they they're going to follow the CDC schedule. And this gives them power, because that's the, quote, right way to do things.

Monique Robles, MD  26:48  
I understand you're, you're now able to be a medical expert. Witness? i Yes. i started, at least putting myself out there. On a couple of cases, I did do some did write some medical experts statements, for even international courts on some bioethics, bioethics issues. But of recent, yes. Including custody cases where one parent wants an injection, another parent does not. And to be a voice for the child. Most, especially when I know and we all we know, the risk and no benefit from these current injections. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  27:43  
Thank you, by the way for doing that, that is

a big void. It's just so easy to go out and find 1000 pediatricians who will just say the party line vaccines are safe and effective. If you don't do them all, you're a bad parent. And as you point out, it's it's so much more complicated than that. So we desperately need people like you

Monique Robles, MD  28:06  
willing to step into that spot and speak out for the children. We are you're right, we're advocates for the kids. And, Paul, it's interesting that you say that, because you're right. So many will say the party line, but the party line doesn't have data doesn't have the data to support. And so that's my hope is to bring evidence, the data that supports the rationale to not inject these children, and it's it's out there.

Dr. Paul  28:37  
But the mainstream media doesn't want it to be out there. And so they won't put it out there. Yeah, you're speaking to the fact that there are over I think it's now over 13. Now, 1300 reports in the peer reviewed literature, folks, this is the gold standard, supposedly, which is not as good as you think it is. But there are that many over 1000 reports of harm published in in the top journals coming from the just the COVID jab.

But what the other side does is, you know, is the tobacco science sort of approach and farmers, especially around vaccines, but they've done it for almost all medications, they just dump out massive amounts of poorly done studies that show whatever they want to show, and they fund it, they publish it, and then you go to court and the other side pulls up, you know, 10,000 studies, and you only have 1000, or in the early days, we had very few because it was a brand new thing. Right? And it's and I think the difficulty comes in trying to refute all of that garbage. Right. I mean, that's what it essentially comes down to.

Monique Robles, MD  29:54  
Especially when it goes along with like you said, what's what the party line is?

Dr. Paul  30:01  
Yeah, absolutely. Tell me a little more about the truth for Health Foundation. I think you guys are launching a pediatric report and as part of the whistleblowers initiative, yes, you got it. So Dr. Vleet, had, she has a her own station or own our recording with America out loud.

Monique Robles, MD  30:22  
And there was a need for the noon hour, Monday through Friday. So she developed the series is called the whistleblower report, and really looks at all of the

problems that are occurring, whether it be a medicine or military

government, that that we need to be aware of, that are happening. And one of those is the pediatric report, where we are showcasing really what's happening inside pediatrics, and particularly these attacks that are happening on children, and allowing parents to hear this, to give them information so that they're empowered

Dr. Paul  31:16  
and knowledgeable, so that they can move forward and make the best decisions for their children. We want to provide that evidence and support. Absolutely. So people can go to America out loud and noon hour Monday through Friday. It sounds like this is a a important place to get good information. Right. That's the whistleblower report. And there will be different report each of those days, but we're trying to have our voice weekly on one of those hours. So fantastic. Good for you. So I think for you if I'm not mistaken COVID was the real wake up call. Is that true? When it comes to questioning a vaccine? Suppose it vaccine? Yes, yeah.

Monique Robles, MD  32:01  
How did you end up getting the vaccine yourself? No, you said you didn't? How about other family members of yours? My No, I we're not we're I advised. And my parents, rightfully so. And I advised people not to, not to get it. And

thankfully, there was a you know, there was some listening.

Dr. Paul  32:25  
So I'm going to share a funny story based on just you and I in that situation. So I go to my parents. And I tell him, mom, dad, this one, this is not a good vaccine, you really need to stay away from it. They got it anyway. And

as now they're not getting the boosters. So I finally got through. But when it was early on like that, and they're living in retirement communities, and they're here, they watch the news faithfully, you know, CNN and all of it, right?

Liberal Democratic background, so they don't get another perspective. And I come from that background. So if you if that was our background, we buy in that these news agencies are telling the truth. In fact, my mom even said to me, Well, Paul, how can you be right? When you're the only one? Nobody else is thinking the way you are? And the first time she asked me, I was just like, really, you've been with me this whole journey. I've been like two decades talking about, you know, vaccine risks, and this is what I live. And, and that's what you think. But you know, you can't be a prophet in your own land, I guess.

Monique Robles, MD  33:37  
That's well said. That's well said.

Dr. Paul  33:41  
And to think that you would advise anything, but the best for your parents. Right, right. But you see, because you are pro vaccine, we could say, right? I mean, you you've been supporting the the entire childhood schedule

it for you to question it, your parents had to go, oh, my gosh, you know, something's going on here. I'm always questioning everything. So they're like, Ah, here he goes again.

Monique Robles, MD  34:06  
But you know, once you start, once you start bringing up the points of why, and having those conversations, then obviously, you have to bring it to a level where other individuals not in medicine can understand. But having those conversations is so important. Right? It's communication. It's dialogue. That's that's the foundation for for any good relationship. Absolutely. And I'm probably not the master communicator. Actually, I know I'm not.

Dr. Paul  34:41  
So then I have to ask you, if you questioned COVID vaccines, vaccines, have you now decided you might want to take a look at the rest of the vaccine schedule. But of course, of course, I think you begin once you

Monique Robles, MD  35:00  
Once you see what has happened with the coercion of these mRNA injections, it does so many, if you critically think about, well, if this one occurred like this, we'll have any of the others occurred or had similar backgrounds. And so when you start digging into the censored

data and the censored papers and the censored

documentaries and the censored information,

yeah, things that you were that I was never aware of. But now that I look for it, and when I find it, I my jaw drops, it drops. And so it begins. Yes, I begin to think, what is necessary and what is not necessary? What's proportional and what's not proportional.

In these vaccines, what do you think?

So you begin to think, you know, we can go back to when we were kids, right? Yeah, we get hepatitis B shots when we were children. No. Do we get chickenpox shots when we are kids? No, I remember clearly having chickenpox. You know, the lesions even in my ears. It was just, it was a pretty significant case. Yeah, I didn't get the MMR. I'm that old lever. You know, we were the better for it. We have, we have great. I mean, I feel like we have great immunity. But I and I begin to think now.

When I was a child, did I see a lot of kids with who needed epi pens, and with allergies and inhalers?

I don't recall in Exuma, and every other kid Yes, yes. Yes. So, I mean, I just my experience, this is what I was talking about earlier, your experience plays in to your decision making, right.

So there's a lot of a lot of the injections that I

beginning to look at. And like I said, What is what is necessary? And what is not? Yeah.

Dr. Paul  37:22  
I like what you pointed out that you need to start looking at what's been censored, because I'll tell you an interesting story. It was 2001. I had just read the Wakefield paper on the measles and autism possible, lanky. That's all he said, there might be a link, and I thought, hmm, link between vaccines and some major problem. I was like, really. And there was an organization back then called defeat Autism NOW. And they were putting on incredible medical conferences. I had just heard of them through the pediatric journals that were just trashing this organization. You know, they need to be stopped. They're spreading misinformation. And they I don't know if they use that term back then, but basically highly discouraging any involvement by a member of the Academy of Pediatrics with this rogue group of doctors, while an attorney mom in my practice, in 2002, says, Dr. Paul, would you go check out this damn movement? I think my boys are slightly on the spectrum and her boys were if they were on the spectrum, it was mild ADHD, you know, I mean, they were brilliant doing well in school, social, but I thought I really respected her. She was married to an attorney. One of them was soon to become the District Attorney for the area. I mean, sharp, sharp couple. I said alright, I'll go check it out for you. Because I've seriously all I had read was in our pediatric journals.

My jaw dropped. I had goosebumps I had tears once one lunch they presented just before and afters of kids becoming autistic, when you see a whole bunch of those in a row.

Unless you're heartless, I don't know how you can deal with that. Right? Right. So woke me up because the here's this rogue organization you're not supposed to look at. And when you do, oh my word. I never went to another AP meeting in my life. There was no need to go to the AP and I could get some pharma funded presentations or I could go to real conferences and get amazing information. I'm not saying everything at the AP is bad. And I'm definitely not saying that pediatricians are not good people. I think we go into pediatrics as we love children. We have great big hearts. But

you know, you're an ethicist. You're a mom, you're a pediatrician.

Monique Robles, MD  39:40  
I'm still struggling with how to reach our peers. Right? Right. You bring up a good point, it's, it's it goes back to having the conversation and if someone is unwilling to have the conversation,

then then that's then that's when you

Dr. Paul  40:00  
You shake the sand off your sandals and you keep going, right? You can't unknow what you know, and you can't unsee what you've seen. And actually, for me, it was parents who first came to me and said, you know, Dr. Paul, Could you look into this? I think there's something going on. For example, with a kid becoming autistic after a series of vaccines, sometimes it was immediate. And it sure felt like, wow, that's a coincidence, you know, very first time. And then for me, it happened four years in a row. And it was like, Okay, that was the last straw. Shame on me that it took that long to wake up. And I was just recently interviewing somebody else who, who made a very, very important point that just sort of hit me has. That's it. So the association is not causation. Right? This is the the thing that gets us our Achilles heel, if you will. Well, he was talking about some Israeli data and the COVID stuff, and made the comment that if, if you give a product in this case, let's talk about a vaccine. And a patient regresses or gets worse. And then over time, they get better. And then you give that product again, and they get even worse. That's proof of causation. And it was like this, aha, because that's what I've been seeing over and over my whole career. I, since I started my integrative pediatric practice, when I left the mainstream group, we had first do no harm safe passage in a changing world, these were our mottos. And if you see a delay developing in a kid, or you see any kind of regression, stop all vaccines at that point, that was sort of our guiding principle, and honoring informed consent. And so what would happen is we saw so many kids who were just slipping into what looked like it would be developmental delays or autism get better. And then too many times they ended up thinking, Oh, my kids, okay, now we can do the vaccines, they would give another one, then they'd be full blown out autism. I mean, if that wasn't proof enough of causation, I don't know what it is. It's interesting. But what it requires, Paul, is, is humility, right? We don't come out, or we shouldn't come out a medical school and after all our training, and think we know everything.

Monique Robles, MD  42:22  
And so and that we know, what is always best for the child. And in our, our thinking, our decision making should override the parent. Parents are astute, especially moms. And so I think we've talked about this before, but you have a mom that says something. And it's, you know, maybe, oh, no, it's brushed off or something else, and she comes back.

You don't brush it off. There's a reason she's back. Because something is not right. And you haven't done your due diligence to figure it out. You hit me with humility. I had a good friend,

Dr. Paul  43:03  
coach, personal coach, who I had. I mean, I've had enough humility along the way to listen, but sometimes I had to be hit upside the head a few times.

We all do. And, you know, it was it was on the tail of just I mean, I'm just like, racing around pediatric rooms. And just, I've got a bunch of nurse practitioners who consult with me all day long. I mean, I'm starting to think I'm really all that right. And so losing my license was actually the best thing that happened. Because not only did that just bam, out of the blue, I mean, I was dealing with board stuff, but I was always okay, because they really didn't have anything. And my coach just basically drove home that point about letting ego go, and just listening to your soul. And being humble, right? And that in that space, everything beautiful happens. I, I feel you and I love your soft way.

It's really, really powerful. I want you to close out with a message to parents today.

Monique Robles, MD  44:10  
In whatever way you wish. Thank you, Paul. That that's a beautiful example. I

I find that when we are when we are humble, that we have a greater art our we have a greater capacity and listen, our heart is more compassionate. And

we're able to understand more clearly right?

And so and I just want to say that no matter what a board takes away, they'll never take away your professionalism as a doctor, they can't take away the Euro physician. They'll never take that away. You know, so they just there's just some things that cannot be done.

So I do want to close with telling parents that

fight for your children. There are many of us out there, you can find us. We've talked about where you can find this. And we we are working hard to to bring the ethics and art of medicine back.

And so we're with you in this fight.

And so, yeah.

Dr. Paul  45:30  
And then I'm going to challenge you for one last thing. Be specific, you have a patient sitting in front of you, or it's a close friend, and they have a little baby or a preschooler or a school aged kid. And the COVID vaccine just got authorized. They're excited. They want to they want to go get it, because finally I can go, now I can protect my infant. What do you tell them?

Monique Robles, MD  45:57  
No. But you know, we you it's, it's how you tell them? That's how you tell them? First you ask, Well, what do you think the benefits are going to be from this injection, and let them talk, let them tell you so that they give you all of their rationale. And then you bring in all the counterpoints and all the harms, and that it would be in the best interest of, of the child. And that's that, and you say that that's my responsibility is the best interest of your child.

Unknown Speaker  46:34  
Hmm.

Unknown Speaker  46:35  
I like that.

Dr. Paul  46:38  
There you have it, folks. I feel like what we need more of is how to talk to each other. And what you just illustrated there is we need to ask questions, and have an open heart. And then if there's a willingness for them to hear what you feel might be in the best interest of kids. You know, that's the hard part is sometimes people closed down when you start sharing that information. And I don't know if you have a, an approach to when that happens. I think it seems like that when they close down that just allowing them to talk, I feel I feel that sometimes we as physicians don't listen enough. And that's when we miss things. So

Monique Robles, MD  47:25  
that's, that's a simple advice. But I think it's a it's it's a great advice.

Dr. Paul  47:31  
Fantastic.

Monique Robles, MD  47:33  
Well, Dr. Monique Robles, thank you so much. Thank you, Paul, remind people where they can go read your writings and how they can support this medical Freedom Movement. Right. So my website is WWE dot human dignity speaks.com, where I put in all these post on just Bioethical Issues in medicine, more specifically, as related to children and adolescents. And another place please visit is WW dot truth for health.org As we're fighting for your medical freedom, and the rights of humanity.

Dr. Paul  48:20  
Thank you

Welcome Bernadette back to against the wind. It's so great to have you back. Oh, I'm always so pleased to be here with you, Dr. Paul. And I want to tell you, I was at a meeting last night and there was love set around your name, you're, you're a hero to many I know you don't feel like a hero. But you're standing up and speaking out in a very difficult time and everybody is grateful even over here in the great state of Tennessee. Well, thank you. And folks, if you don't know Bernadette has moved from Washington State of Washington to Tennessee, where she's involved in many different organizations fighting for medical freedom and freedom in general. And you are still the host of an informed life radio, Public Policy Director of informed choice Washington where I know you're very active. And today I'm excited. The elections are over now. And I know folks, there's always disappointment after elections and some people are happy about certain things and some people are sad about other things. But what do we do now, Bernadette? What do we do now? This is really big. There has never been a more important time to figure out what to do when the elections are over. So no matter the outcome, what do you do? You are gonna get meetings with your state and local elected officials. Some of you have never ever done this before. I'm telling you, it's time to to stand up and do it. Grab somebody grab a friend so that you have the courage. These are just people once you get to know them. You'll wonder why you were ever nervous. I started off being nervous. But eventually you got to the point where these are just people you develop relationships with. How do you do that? You email or

Bernadette Pajer  50:00  
or, and or telephone their offices and find out how to set an appointment say I want an appointment before session starts, because you need to establish this relationship. Now, the newly elected who've never been in office before can be kind of harder to find because their, their official addresses aren't always available until the beginning of when they take office. But you can usually reach out through their candidate pages that are still active in their emails and phones still work. This is your goal, you want to ask them their stance on issues that are very important to you. Listen to their response, this is probably the hardest thing, you don't want to open the floodgates, you want to have a conversation, listen to what they say, take notes, explain your concerns and earnestly listen to their response. And then at the end of the meeting, ask for something specific, something like please support legislation, this session that protects medical freedom, right? And then thank them. That's all you're going to do for now. And then as session moves in, you're going to have this relationship set up and you become more and more specific. Always having that listening component, because you're developing this professional relationship. Now, why?

Why do you want to do this? You want to do this with your friendly officials? And people say, Well, I don't need to contact my friendly official, they already stand with me. Or I'm afraid to go to my unfriendly officials, they don't, you know, why do you need to do this with all of them? Why do you think Dr. Paul, what's the number one reason you need to do this? Well,

you need it. If you're going to have any influence whatsoever, you need a relationship. That's it. That's it. And I'm going to tell you really powerfully why because every week if not every single day, this is in these people that I'm going to show you are in the offices,

lobbyists, there are and show you something a little bit. There are literally 1000s of lobbyists in every single state who are paid to show up every day, walk the halls, shake hands, ask how your kids are doing have muffin day and give free muffins. They establish relationships, they're bringing the data from their side of the topic every week, every day the loggers compete with that hard to compete with that. And then these guys, these are your Medical Association's there, they put on their white coats and the doctors have a Day on the Hill and the nurses have a Day on the Hill. And these associations are all pro vaccine pro forma pro hospital establishment, the things we're trying to reform. These aren't bad people. These are people caught up in a bad system. And they are saying the opposite of what we know to be truth, in fact, but even they are not our worst adversary. Our worst adversary. Dr. Paul's right here. And I'm using Washington State as an example is your own department of health, your taxpayer funded employees who are pure CDC propaganda, and what they will do so this we've got a Secretary of Health and Chief Science Officer, Chief prevention chief of policy chief of partnerships, Chief of resilience, Chief of public affairs, and I left off so many other employees head of the immunization department, you know, all these other things that work daily to try to push CDC messaging.

And they can get hour long meetings, they can get dinner appointments, they can get work sessions, it's really difficult when session starts, we get three minutes of public comment or a 10 minute office visit if you can squeeze in their schedule, these individuals are in and out of the office because their public health right.

So it is a well oiled machine, isn't it? It is so if they don't hear from us moms and dads citizens regularly the only information they're going to find out about pharmaceutical products. And that's of course, what we focus on is the vaccines and COVID shots. The only information they're going to get is from lobbyists, medical professionals, and corporate captured public health officials. So your voice is essential. And it really is important. And I want to stop share. I wanted to give my own little examples in about 2016 When I began to attend board of health and Department of Health type meetings, I would go on I would often be the only public citizen watching the meetings and I would look to the left and look to the right here are these well dressed 20 something 30 Something professionals they were all lobbyists they were or they were like pharmaceutical reps. And during the break you'd say oh hey how you doing Johnny? Oh, unders great Harry, how you doing? They knew each other they had relationships. Right? It

It was very, very cozy. And then I would go to Olympia at the Capitol in Washington State. And I'd be heading toward legislators office with my printed out PubMed studies about the dangers of this or that and I'd see outside the hall.

That's the Merck rep. That's the Pfizer rep that I saw at the Department of Health meeting, right. And I really realized how everywhere I went, I saw a lot of those and very few of me. Yep, we need to flip that. There's more of us than of them. Let's get seen and heard. That is so important. And then so I have one more thing to share with you. I wanted to share with you. I was shocked to find this out really the money involved. So every state has some place where lobbyists are required to record what their their name and who they're working for. So I just looked in Washington State at their lobby list. I looked for loving client Pfizer, and I found a woman named Amy brackenbury. Okay, so I decided, so I clicked on her. Here we go. And there's there's a picture, pretty young woman, and then I went down to see what the heck she was doing when the shots first came out. Because I was curious, I figured that was be when she would be most active. So I think it was like, February of 2021. Why am I not seeing that? September? Let's go to September. That's close enough.

Let's see what we have here is fine. There's Pfizer $5,000. In one month that she was given September of 2021. They gave this woman $5,000 to promote Pfizer products in Washington State at the Capitol. She also got 7000 from the Washington State Society, the anesthesiologist, 2500 from Washington, Washington School counselors. It's funny that the beer and wine distributors are on here. I guess they wanted to make sure they kept the doors open. As churches were closed the beer and wine distributors wanted to keep kept open. We've got vertex pharmaceuticals. I don't know who they are. AstraZeneca she's got a zero though. But apparently she was working for them at some point. It's almost $40,000 in one month. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And and when you go through, it is so shocking to see how much lobbyists make if they if they have several clients, I tell you, we're in the wrong position. How do we get people to pay us 5000 a month to go tell the truth to because we do it for free? We pay for the gas we pay for our own hotels, you know, Mama bears and Papa bears. We pay all out of pocket to do this. Yeah. But thanks for exposing this. I don't think I realized, and I now better understand why when I've tried to go and meet with my senator representative. It's been very difficult to even get an appointment. And no wonder they are consumed by big money, lobbyists and all these inside connections.

You got our work cut out for ourselves, folks. Thank you, Bernadette for bringing that to our attention. You're welcome. And one more little example I wanted to give you is we had some concerns. I apologize. I don't remember the specific but it was vaccine related pre COVID. And we had a legislator who was very interested, you looked in UI and you got that sparkle, that back and forth connection we're connecting. He's looking at the data, the published studies that we have given him, he's voicing concerns, great meeting, the next time I saw this legislator, and I went up to him about this very same subject. He was standoffish his eyes had that look of I'm not going to connect with you. And he said, Well, you know, I met this summer with the American Academy of Pediatrics doctors. And so you know, I feel I I'm feeling pretty good about this decision of what's going on over here, which is not what we wanted. Right? So in that intervening time between when I had seen him, that Association had convinced him to not listen to me. It just shut me down. That can happen if you're not there regularly. Yeah, no, absolutely.

Dr. Paul  59:11  
Lot of captured agencies and

public health offices, etc. Yes, folks, take Bernadette's advice, go get a establish relationship. If you've got the time and the desire. This is what we need. We need 1000s of us hundreds of 1000s of us descending on our state capitals around the country. And let's get the truth out there. Exactly. Thank you Dr. Paul. Thanks Bernadette.

Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member support it we don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling

The content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show, PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I'm Dr. Paul. Today I interview Steve Kirsch. He is the founder of COVID-19 early treatment Fund and the executive director of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. We do a deep dive into COVID vaccine safety data. This man has it at his fingertips, and the many effects and side effects that are being reported. At the end I asked him for his informed conclusion. Now mind you, here's a guy who took two two of these COVID vaccines. He woke up as he started to see everything that unfolding and then did the work himself to go and get the data. His recommendation, don't get the vaccines. You're gonna want to watch it. It's powerful. And Bernadette ends with this ACI P vote that caused the CDC to put this on the childhood schedule. The effect of this coming February, she's going to tell you how you figure this out, state by state. Enjoy the show.

Dark power coming to you from the heart. Talking about heroes today. And this is a topic that I struggle with. I get called a hero when I'm talking with my patients I'm always being thanked thank you for all this and that. I don't feel like a hero. I just feel like I'm doing what you should do in the situation I find myself placed in. I think heroes are firefighters running into a burning building and pulling people out. It's a dead jumping over a fence to pull a kid out of a pool who had drowned or was drowning in their neighbor. It's teachers getting in front of their students in a mass shooting. It's parents who are dealing daily with vaccine injured children, and they bring stuff to me and they show me their struggle. Those are my heroes. I choose to stand with those parents, anybody who's suffering a vaccine injury themselves. And we're gonna work on this together because together, we can make progress and we desperately need it. We're all heroes as we fight for the truth. We fight for what's right, and we stand in the gap so our kids don't continue to be harmed. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

welcome Steve Kirsch, we were just together a week ago in Florida at the FLC CC conference. You are one of the speakers your presentation. Wow. Now, I discovered you not that long ago, but you are a tech entrepreneur, philanthropist, you've become an investigative journalist, a masterful one at that. You you have a history of independently inventing optical mouse. I think you were an inventor of one of the first Internet search engines Infoseek. But let's fast forward to the last couple, two, three years you founded the COVID-19 early treatment fund, and you're the executive director of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. Tell me a little bit about your background. Many of my viewers, those on the Children's Health defense TV probably know you fairly well, but a lot of my other outlets, people probably don't know you. What's your background? And how did you get into being so passionate about COVID And the data and this vaccine or

Steve Kirsch  3:11  
shot? Yeah, so I mean, my backgrounds been in technology. I've been a computer geek. Since the very early days, I worked actually, I wrote down email program for the people who invented the internet, if you can believe that, back when I was a kid in in high school. And so I I went to MIT, I got a couple of degrees from MIT. left there, I started my first company, which was inventing the optical mouse and putting that on the market. And I've done about, I don't know, six or seven high tech companies. You know, I used to have a resume on LinkedIn. But I've been permanently banned on LinkedIn, I've been permanently banned on medium. I've been permanently banned from Wikipedia and been I've been permanently banned twice from Twitter. And all of this is for what they call spreading misinformation on these platforms. And I like to call it telling the truth. So some I'm a truth teller. And, in fact, I only started being banned on these platforms. When I started talking about the vaccines. You know, so we've gotten my entire life. I've never been called a misinformation spreader in my life. I got a national caring award that was presented by Hillary Clinton in a huge auditorium in Washington DC along with other people who were were being honored at the time. And that national caring award used to be on my wiki pedia profile, but as soon as I started talking about the vaccine, my Nash Don't carry your word disappeared from my Wikipedia profile, you know. And so this is the kind of stuff that people will do in order to make you look like you're a bad person. You know, and this continues to this day where I met with, I ran into an old friend, Eric Hahn. And he's a CEO here, he was the CEO of several startup companies. And I asked me what I was doing. And I said, Well, I'm a mythbuster, today. And he said, Well, what do you what kinds of myths I said, Oh, you know, like, the vaccine is safe and effective myth. And he said, I don't want to talk to you. You're an evil person. The data is so clear that these vaccines are saving lives. And I said, Well, that's not what the data says. And, and, and he said, No, no, the data is all clear. And it's in front of a beat. Like I said, Would you talk to me about the data? And he said, No, no, no, that would be like arguing with a person who claimed that the moon is made of Swiss cheese, people have beliefs. But if they're credible people that present themselves and say, you work, I have an argument that the moon is made of Swiss cheese to Eric, I would listen to you. And he said, No, no, I don't have the time time for this. We're not having this discussion. And then he walked away. And, and so you know, it's interesting that the people who can see what's going on, are the people who are open to discussing that their belief system might not be right. Yep. And you know what, so what got me into this is that I was a big believer of the vaccine, because this is what I was told this is what people that you trust tell you that the vaccines are safe and effective. This is the same reason that Dr. Paul Merrick, who's one of the key is the number one most published intensivist of all time, which means he's the intensivist as ICU medicine. Yeah. And so there's nobody smarter in intensive care medicine when then Paul, I mean, arguably, and he said he was fooled to he, he basically trusted people, he didn't look at the data himself, he trusted people, this is what everyone in medicine does, because they just don't have the time to look at the data themselves. And so he started seeing all these vaccine injured people. I mean, tons and tons of vaccine injured, and it was so obvious. And nobody was saying anything. Right? Nobody in the medical community was acknowledging the link between you getting a vaccine. And these conditions are happening within hours after the shot. Right. So you go from perfectly healthy, to disabled. Yeah, in hours, like you couldn't even make it to the bathroom. Where it's after the shock. And everybody's like going like, well, that must be just in your mind or the incidence. Yeah, coincidence, or, or whatever. And so pulse off saw too many of these coincidences, so he started looking at the data. And when he did, he was like, appalled. It's the same thing for Aseem Malhotra, famous cardiologist in the UK. Yep. He was advocating on TV. And then his dad died with multiple blockages. And so he started investigating found it was the VAX. I talked to a doctor recently. He said he had two patients with six stents. He says he's never seen more than three stents ever in his 30 year career. And now he's got patients with two patients, not one patient. And he's only got a practice of 1000 patients. He's got two patients with six stents. And

Dr. Paul  8:52  
that would be because of the massive clotting that happened in all those major arteries

Steve Kirsch  8:56  
happened after these people got the vaccine. Yeah. And so I had my awakening moment when somebody contacted me and said, Hey, I had three relatives who died. And they, they all died a week after getting the shot. And they were all perfectly healthy. Now, look, one I could understand, but three, you know, like that. Don't. You'd have to know like, a billion people. Yeah. Before you would find that one person. Yeah. And of course, Eric Khan says, no, no, that selection bias because, you know, you found the one person that happened to be unlucky. And that doesn't mean that they're all like that. But, you know, a week later my carpet cleaner comes in. He said that he had a heart attack a minute after he got the shot and his wife also suffered from a Parkinson's like, symptoms. She couldn't hold the glass steady after she got her shot and that is She recovered there, it took her like four months to recover. So I said, you know, that's that's the statistic with the three deaths in a week, that's a little bit outside of the normal range. I mean, that's not something that you'd expect to see at all. So what I did was I started looking at the data, I said, Hmm, interesting, you know, somebody's lying to me. It's either my friends are lying to me. Because I don't think I'm that unlucky. Yeah, my friends lying to me, or CDC is lying to the CDC and FDA lied to me. So I decided to look at the data and, and, and see what the data said. So I started looking at the various data and taught myself how to, you know, search for errors or errors in the vaccine adverse event reporting system, and the various data was unambiguous. This is the most dangerous vaccine we've ever produced. This is killing 1000s of people and viruses under reported by at least 41. And so, you know, the 1000s of people that were showing up in the VR system at the time, I mean, that was like 41,000 people on ongoing like,

Dr. Paul  11:11  
any, like, just signal we've ever seen. It's in

Steve Kirsch  11:13  
41,000 people now wait a second. So you stop a beat when they're two infants who die from baby formula? Close the baby formula plan. That's what we do. We do that today. We close the frickin plant. Yep, with two infant deaths. For 41,000 Americans who died after getting the vaccine, It's unexplainable. And they're like, let's mandate this. You know, this is this is an unbelievable, and so I just couldn't believe, you know, it was it was like, wow, what's going on here? You know, so, I had other people that I talked to people like Dr. Robert Malone and Dr. Byron bridle and and

Dr. Paul  12:01  
Peter Matala and

Steve Kirsch  12:04  
Brett wines Stein. You know, all these Chris Martenson. Right. All these guys are super down to earth people. They're not ever categorized as misinformation spreaders. Like when did you ever hear Peter McCullough being a misinformation spread? Or my

Dr. Paul  12:22  
gosh, I don't know him, right. He's a cardiologist and one of the most published in his field in the world. But I've been on stage with him. He's a gentleman and such a knowledgeable scientist.

Steve Kirsch  12:35  
Yeah, he's extremely knowledgeable about all the science. Yep. And nobody will debate him and nobody will debate any of these people. Yep. And so I started collaborating with these people who were seeing the truth. And people like Jessica Rose and Matthew Crawford and Robert F. Kennedy, Joe Mercola. And they're all seeing exactly the same thing. Now. How is it Paul that all of these people, including myself, become misinformation? spreaders? Yeah, exact Welcome to

Dr. Paul  13:12  
my world.

Steve Kirsch  13:13  
So on the exact same issue? Yep. So this goes like when was the last time when was the last time that happened, Paul, and the and all of them were wrong.

Dr. Paul  13:23  
I mean, I can think of Ignis Shama Weiss, I think I'm butchering his last name. He was he was the only guy. That's true. He was alone. He was so yeah, that you're right. It tends to be a lone person who finds an uncomfortable truth that challenges the narrative and they get persecuted.

Steve Kirsch  13:41  
Right. It's something I it's like the guy with the discovered ulcers.

Dr. Paul  13:46  
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's another example. I mean, Andy Wakefield, who wrote that maybe

Steve Kirsch  13:51  
Wakefield rides alone, Paul Thomas.

Dr. Paul  13:55  
I heard a Paul Thomas. I've been Wakefield did.

Steve Kirsch  13:59  
Yeah, you know, your Wakefield, it meaning that you're had your career destroyed, because you went against the narrative. And so each individual that goes against the narrative, you know, gets their career destroyed. And so people are reticent about doing that. And so, even today, doctors are seeing, you know, these, like, I know a doctor at Stanford, his name is Brian Stockdale. And, and Stockdale saw a case of CJD after the person, not the VAX. In fact, the person developed CJD a week, one week after getting the VAX. Now, that's either the most incredible coincidence of all time or there's cause and effect. You should look it up as CJD it's a it's a prion disease, which means is a disease caused by misfolded proteins. Yeah, Learning

Dr. Paul  15:00  
long lines of mad cow disease, I believe.

Steve Kirsch  15:03  
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so you could you could either get it from eating, you know, meat that's infected or what have you. And and so this person who developed it, they had no risk factors for CJD, none zero. The doctors at Stanford were baffled. They, they told the doctors, hey, developed one week after they got the vaccine. And she consulted with 10 Doctors at Stanford University. And none of the 10 would even speculate that the vaccine might cause this despite overwhelming evidence in the scientific literature that connects the vaccines with prion disease. And in fact, I was on a call with Dr. Byram bridle at the very beginning of this when I first heard about the biodistribution, study that Byram and basically obtained through Freedom of Information Act from the Japanese government, and he discovered that number one is the vaccines not staying in your arm, which was super troubling. And the second thing he discovered was, or that he hypothesized is that he said, You know, I'm really worrying about prion disease. And

Dr. Paul  16:29  
yeah, I think for our for our audience, sorry to interrupt you. But people don't realize the technology that was used to create this mRNA, quote, vaccine. And I put that in quotes, just because it's not a vaccine. It's not preventing any illness. And it's designed with that nano particle technology to enter the blood brain barrier, for example. I mean, they've created this molecule. So it will go anywhere, and you're talking about the fact that the biodistribution, it can go anywhere in the body.

Steve Kirsch  16:58  
Yeah. Including your brains law, it lungs, heart, liver, kidney, spleen, blah, blah, blah, and especially your ovaries, especially your reproductive organs. This is why people have reproductive problems. Some people have reproductive problems, things like problems with erections after they got the shock, because it almost hones in on your reproductive organs. And, you know, people would have none of this. But you know, the various data was conclusive

Dr. Paul  17:26  
that one shot in two years, has caused more harm than all vaccines since we started collecting data 30 years ago, folks, this is shocking. And just last

Steve Kirsch  17:38  
fall, wait, Paul, it's worse than that. Because I did some surveys on health care workers. And it turns out they're under reporting is versus historical vaccines. They're actually reporting at a five times lesser rate for this vaccine, even than the others. Yes, than the others.

Dr. Paul  18:00  
I find that shocking, because the side effects from the COVID jabs are so as we pointed out at the beginning of our talk, many of them happen quickly. Yes, yes. They're so severe. How can you resist them?

Steve Kirsch  18:13  
You just don't report the Paul, because there's so many of them, Paul, that people don't have the time to report them all. And they're told not to, and they're, they're told that somebody else will report it. Yeah. And that ever happens,

Dr. Paul  18:25  
there's a huge incentive or disincentive to report, right.

Steve Kirsch  18:29  
They're told they're told, they are told that these vaccines have been heavily tested, and they're safe and effective. And so one part of you says, well, I shouldn't report them because it's not linked. And I don't want to create alarm. I don't want to create vaccine hesitancy. Yeah, right. That is the fall, don't want to get fired. And plus, there are too many of them. I know one neurologist who's got 1000 needs to file 1000, various reports. And she's filed two of them.

Dr. Paul  18:56  
Yeah. Historically, as a pediatrician, we did not recognize that most of the chronic neurological conditions, most of the developmental delays, a lot of the allergies and autoimmunity that we were seeing these chronic conditions and kids, we I'm willing to bet you 99% of pediatricians today have no idea that they are linked to vaccines.

Steve Kirsch  19:20  
Right. Right. And in fact, I was in an event last night for children's health. And the the speaker or the the the person they were honoring one person, that person had to sit in a chair, and she got up and she said sorry, I have vertigo. And so you know, this is why I'm, I'm a little bit you know, out of it. And so I went up to her and asked her afterwards, I said, How long have you been having? Have you been having the vertigo? Did you develop the vertigo in last few years? Yes. And I said How long after you got the vaccine? Did you develop your vertigo? All right, I mean, I jump directly from Sure. Like, cuz I've seen this over and over and over and over again. We've got the vaccine who developed vertigo. Yeah. And she says it was, you know, it's about like four months. How do you know?

Dr. Paul  20:13  
Yeah, they're not it's been the traditional denial thing that all the new things we see. I mean, SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome. I was in training 30 years ago when that term was introduced. And it's only way later when the data was analyzed carefully. You see, almost all the SIDs happens the week after a vaccine. Like, I think it's 97 or 8%. It's, it's not happening the week before a vaccine. So the cause and effect is clear. Now we have sads. Once we had COVID vaccine, sudden adult Death Syndrome, oh, they're just dropping dead. Have you seen images of people, soccer players just bam, dead? We're seeing it more and more.

Steve Kirsch  20:54  
It's amazing how the medical community has never ever linked SIDS with the vaccine. How can you have all of the events happening the week after the vaccine? And none of the events happening the week before Paul? I mean, it's one,

Dr. Paul  21:13  
obviously cause and effect. Our peers are just I just It baffles me, honestly.

Steve Kirsch  21:22  
I mean, we were told put your baby on its back.

Dr. Paul  21:25  
Right, right. Back to Sleep program. I mean, pediatrics pushed it big time. So they could therefore explain away the SIDs. Oh, it's because you've putting your baby on your tummy?

Steve Kirsch  21:35  
Ours? Of course. And you know, isn't it amazing? How we only figured this out after the vaccines rolled out, and medical science had never before made the connection? Isn't that amazing? And isn't amazing, Paul how maths suddenly started working for a virus when in the history, the history of medical science yet nobody had figured this out who actually has a manual saying the MAS don't stop respiratory viruses. This is why when you are you're in a BSL three or a BSL four lab. Do you see anybody wearing an n95 mask and a BSL three or BSL four?

Dr. Paul  22:19  
That is a good point. BSL three and four lab is?

Steve Kirsch  22:25  
BSL three is just a high low it. There are various categories of biosafety lab specification for labs where you do work on viruses. BSL one is considered to be like the lowest level, BSL two BSL three and BSL four and they're very few BSL four. They're probably like a handful of BSL four labs. And they're much more BSL three. And so this is where you do the gain function research. like it'd be you in a BSL four? Where it's, it's highly contained. I guarantee you nobody at any of these labs when you're dealing with pathogenic viruses is wearing an n 95. Mask. Yeah, yeah, I guarantee you

Dr. Paul  23:07  
they're completely porous and and close to useless that n 95 might have a teeny bit of delay. But you're gonna you're gonna die if you're in a dealing with these

Steve Kirsch  23:18  
very quickly. I mean, there's the bear spray test where these Marines get into a tent. It worlds one Marine gets into the tent and, and he has he testing in 95. He just a surgical mask and he tests the gas mask and gas mask. It's like you do the bear spray is like nothing. Like you know, nothing ever happened. To do that. You were in the 95 you hit the bear spray. And it's like, I'm out of here. Come on, get me out of here.

Dr. Paul  23:43  
Yeah. I had a patient can

Steve Kirsch  23:45  
he's wearing goggles too, by the way? Yeah, he's wearing goggles. Right? And how many people were walking around with their n95 and goggles? Nobody?

Dr. Paul  23:53  
Nobody? Yeah. So one of the things you've done that I admire greatly. What we've needed are prospective randomized trials. Now, anytime you do surveys, and I love your surveys, but anytime you introduce a new vaccine, that is your golden opportunity, because nobody has had that vaccine. So there will be a population that's unvaccinated to that vaccine. And why aren't we collecting that data and comparing the matched unvaccinated to the vaccinated, and I push this out there, folks, because parents, you need to be aware, the COVID Jab has been approved by the CDC to go on the childhood vaccine schedule. And that will start next February. It's coming soon. And unfortunately, depending on the state you're in, it may be mandated for school because once they get on that schedule, that's just sort of the way they do things. And the way it goes is Eric Rubin would say it's the way it goes. And I knew that was what they were doing from the beginning because once you get it on the childhood schedule, the manufacturers, the doctors who get it, anybody involved with that shot? Is it completely free of liability. And so it's the Holy Grail of a vaccine company make it product that you can have mandated without liability. My gosh, that's it's like mandated profit who wouldn't want a piece of that action? So we have got a job on our hands, Steve, and I know you're, you're doing everything you can do to inform the public. But we've got to wake parents up. So they they're the last year the last barrier between pharma government, public health officials, schools mandating a potentially lethal dose of vaccine you don't need.

Steve Kirsch  25:37  
Yes. And it's, you know, it's, it's so amazing, you know, and people like my, my friend, Eric Khan would be cheerleaders for like, of course, I'm gonna get my child vaccinated as soon as possible to protect them. But you know, the numbers are amazing, you know, Johnny and NiNis, that it Stanford, he calculated threats, it's three kids in a million. If they got the infection will die. Now, that's it if they got the infection, so figure, maybe one in a million kids might die from COVID. And that's a might die. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  26:15  
What are the numbers for the vaccine estimated

Steve Kirsch  26:16  
the average and so forth, but it's based on on bogus statistics. Because when you actually look at the kids who died and you talk to their parents, you say, Hey, I see that so and so died from from COVID. And they say, No, is a it was a congenital heart defect, usually that they finally succumb to. And so I'm still looking for the child who died from COVID. I mean, that child should be on a poster somewhere saying, Hey, we found a child who died from COVID. And

Dr. Paul  26:49  
from just COVID. You're absolutely right. The way they rigged the system if you died in a motor vehicle accident, but they got a positive COVID test. Yeah. COVID death. Yeah. Yeah, in Oregon, early on the local paper at the coast where I sometimes go visit published from a nursing home, that they had all these COVID deaths. And then the director of the nursing home said, but none of them had COVID. They even got a positive COVID on somebody a week after they

Steve Kirsch  27:15  
died. There you go. At least they didn't die from COVID. They got it a week later.

Dr. Paul  27:23  
recorded as a COVID death horse got a positive.

Steve Kirsch  27:26  
There you go. Yep. So yeah, they're they're incentivized, right? They get more they get paid more if there's a COVID death, and they get paid. I've heard that people that the hospital can get up to $500,000 for COVID death. Have you heard that? They'd been

Dr. Paul  27:42  
in the hospital a long time and then they die? They were in the ICU? Yeah, it ups the reimbursement in a crazy way.

Steve Kirsch  27:48  
Yeah. So I mean, they're, they're incentivized to kill people. Yeah. And in fact, that when I do surveys, I find that more people respond to the idea. My he didn't die from COVID. He died in the from from the hospital protocols for COVID. Right. Right. And, and not really from COVID. itself. And I wanted to make a point here, which which I didn't get in earlier, which is on the sudden adult Death Syndrome. Mark Crispin Miller is the guys who's been tracking this. And so I asked, I asked Mark Crispin Miller, I said, Hey, like how many of these people who died with a sudden adult Death Syndrome, have these people who are unvaccinated? And he said, Well, I found three. And I'm sure he's got, you know, hundreds of of people that he's reported so far. So we're talking three out of, I don't know, maybe it's 150. So 150, who died? I mean, it's like you have a 5050 times greater chance that you're going to be dying from the vaccine, then then dying. From, quote, natural causes, or, you know, the, you know, because people do die from from heart attacks. They've been dying from heart attacks before the vaccines rolled up. It's just we've never seen these numbers. Never. And people are normalizing it like, oh, yeah, people are always like, been at a microphone. And then two seconds later, they're dead. Yep. Like when you went, Paul, when did you ever see that before in your life?

Dr. Paul  29:30  
Yeah, I mean, never, especially Healthy Athletes dropping dead. I mean, this is

Steve Kirsch  29:36  
unheard of. It's now and it's such a normal occurrence now that people then extrapolate it to say, oh, you know, that they've always you know, people have always dropped dead winter. What's the big deal? Yeah. Not like that. It's just

Dr. Paul  29:51  
such a disaster. Steve, we have got to somehow stop it. Yeah, I know. You're trying you're trying your darndest. Do you have any data you might want to just share with the audience? If I

Steve Kirsch  30:01  
So you asked me about the data, this is a presentation I did at the FLCC conference, you know, pointing out that hey, you know, in Israel, they figured it out. Only two and 2.4% are vaccinated. These are the Israeli official numbers. Israel used to be the most highly vaccinated place on on Earth, one of the most highly vaccinated, and now 2.4% are considered to be vaccinated. So they're not buying the story at all in Israel. Now, of course, nobody in America knows this, because it's like, the mainstream media is never going to tell this story. Right? Dr. Aseem Malhotra used to be on TV promoting the vaccines. Father died six months after he got his shot, which is the mean time so it's like five months after you get the shot as the meantime for death. Yeah. And so we started looking at the data. And he's like, uh, Paul is saying, we have this this willful willful blindness to the data. So now he's going out and and talking about how that the vaccine should be stopped. And what's happening is that he's getting interviewed by the press, but the press doesn't run the articles. doesn't want anyone to know, I mean, this is stunning. This guy gets interviewed with by the press, and they don't, and they decide not to run the story, I mean, day. So what's going on, of course, is that, you know, once you're, once you allow yourself to question, what you've been told, and to question what you believe, then all of this unexplainable events, the SIDS, the sads, the all of this stuff just becomes super explainable. And of course, the elephant in the room is that, you know, is the cure worse than the disease? And of course, it is. Great, great book. Oops, this is this is the book all the way down. And this is an awesome book. Have you read it?

Dr. Paul  32:03  
I have. So that book outlines my journey, basically, because I've been in I've been in this vaccine industry for 35 years as a pediatrician. And I woke up about 20 years ago, to the fact that oh, my gosh, we're being lied to, it's a big part of the problem. And now COVID is waking everybody else up, at least anybody still at all able to look at data, the silver lining,

Steve Kirsch  32:25  
these are my injury, my personal injury estimates, your estimates may vary. But I cite all of the research behind these numbers. And, you know, now Dr. Naomi Wolf has had verified that millions of people have been injured and hundreds of 1000s of people have been killed. And so she may not agree with my particular numbers here, but certainly when the same ballpark. Yeah. And so

Dr. Paul  32:54  
you're a smart guy. And if you're a thinking person, parents, being a pediatrician, I'm just horrified that this is going to come at your kids this next year, if you've haven't already fallen for it. For the older kids, your chance of death from the vaccine is far exceeds any one in a million chance that you could die from COVID.

Steve Kirsch  33:12  
Yeah, it's at least 100 a factor of 100. More, even if you believe the vaccines, you know, work as expected. Yeah. And so I actually did a calculation recently with some some recent data and showed that for kids, it's it's 100. It's at least 100 to one. And Dr. Toby Rogers, almost a year ago, had done a calculation and he found it was 117. So using the newest data, I found that it was about 100. In that amazing how these, these numbers line up. And of course in this slide here, it's it's 50 to one, we're killing 50 people for every person we save and COVID. And everybody's is focused on on this number, the number saved, but nobody's looking at the number killed because they're not looking at the heart attacks and strokes and a pulmonary embolisms and so forth. And so I did a calculation very early on Peter McCall asked me hey, can you do an age stratified calculation to find out whether or not the vaccine actually could be effective. And so this is using the ideal vaccine, the vaccine that will save anyone who gets COVID their life will be saved. Right, so if you get COVID Perfect vaccine, so using the perfect vaccine, it still doesn't make any sense because these vaccines kill more people than they saved. And we have this poll numbers we've done independent polls. So this is not following. This is not pulling my followers. This is done using an independent pollsters. And and we found that the the numbers were were larger for the number of people killed by the vaccine. So I made these remarks on Fox News. And of course, they said, well, we can't verify it. I said don't you know find a contact them after the show and give them all the data so they can verify it. And you'll never guess, Paul, they never reached out to me to verify the data that they said they couldn't verify. This is why they can't verify it, because they won't look at it. They won't verify it. It's not that they can't verify it. Right? It's Fox News won't verify the data. I offered them the data. And they never replied. So I posted it. And then after I posted it, I asked Dr. Naomi Wolf to have her team validate my numbers. And she said, Yes, he's right. Hundreds of 1000s deaths. This is what she's got her reputation to uphold. And she's finding that my numbers are right. Yep. You know, like, she's not gonna go a treasurer reputation just to support me, I guarantee him, well, he's willing to run independent analysis. Yep, nobody else will do that. No fact checker will challenge me on this. And, and then I did surveys, right. So this is I forget whether it's Paul fish or fish. They're the these. These, the names of these firms are kind of unusual. Anyway, I think this may be I don't know if this is Paul fish, or what but we did a third party firm. And the link is, is on the slide. And the slide deck is posted on my on my sub stack. And what it showed is that 18, so this is, you're serving 500 People in the surveys, which is large enough to get statistical significance. So they found 18 People had a member of their household die from having a COVID infection. 18 households lost someone, but 38 households lost someone to the COVID vaccine. Now, this is extraordinary, because most people are blue pilled, or at least a receptionist. And so for them to say the vaccine caused a death. I mean, this 18 If you double 18, that's 36. So this is more than two to one. And then there's twice as many people died from the vaccine rather than from the infection. This is why Google and other polling agencies refuse to run any survey, which has both questions. 2.7% said, the vaccinated people report that they're now unable to hold a job. So it's 7 million people disabled. Now, and even if I'm off by a factor of three, even if I'm off by a factor of seven, or 10. This is crazy, these crazy numbers, this unable to hold a job right low,

Dr. Paul  38:08  
if that's an a child that's going to be unable to function in a school environment.

Steve Kirsch  38:15  
This is from the x plus a number of deaths per 1000 people in the UK. Is there a benefits. So there was a report done for the Liberal Party Canada, which is Troodos party looked at the Ontario data and had full access to the Ontario data. There were no benefits for infection, hospitalization or death. Now, how is it that they could find no benefit? You know, and and what's interesting about this report, it was done by anonymous scientists who are tasked by a member of the party to go and do this, because the scientists didn't want to be attacked. Right? If it was a, if the results were good, then they could expose their name. But when the results shown that the policies are nonsensical, the scientists have to duck and run for cover. And, Paul, I'll bet you're a guy who could relate to that.

Dr. Paul  39:12  
Oh, absolutely. Although

Steve Kirsch  39:13  
probably have a story to tell on that one. You bet. Yeah. Yeah. And then on, you know, is there a benefit? There's this great paper. I think it's by Bard class and, and looked at the clinical trial data, there was an increase in morbidity, which was highly statistically significant in all three vaccines. In other words, cure is worse than the disease and the all cause mortality, there is no benefit. There's, you know, it's like, where's the benefit here? So look, these are the blue is every other vaccine except for the COVID vaccine. And you can see that the blues are not going up at all. They're not they don't change. It's only the COVID vaccine. That is elevated. Yeah. Now we're Read

Dr. Paul  40:00  
is reports of deaths since we started recording and 90 now, and there were almost none. Until COVID vaccine was introduced. Bam, those are the deaths.

Steve Kirsch  40:09  
Right? So red is the total, total reports of deaths from all vaccines. And you can see they align, right? Of course, they're gonna match evenly here, because all deaths are are from the noncovered vaccines, because those were the only vaccines available, right? But here they diverge and 2021 and 2022. Now, nobody can explain that, why they diverge.

Dr. Paul  40:33  
What why a signal that massive doesn't respond, result in a total stopping this nonsense. So it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable,

Steve Kirsch  40:42  
right? So there's, there's there, there were three reasons for this, either this massive fraud and gaming. And nobody claims that, right? There's no evidence of that, and nobody claims it. So the FDA and CDC don't didn't claim that. So then the second is that there's massive over reporting, all of a sudden for just a COVID vaccines worldwide in every adverse event tracking system that everybody in the world decided just to over report the COVID vaccines,

Dr. Paul  41:12  
we know there's massive underreporting,

Steve Kirsch  41:15  
correct. Correct. And, and so, but but then we're number three, it's the deadliest vaccine in history. And there's only evidence for number three, and it's overwhelming and the evidence and number two is I actually did a survey of health care workers. And I found it was five times under reported for these vaccines. So the number that you see here, these, these bars should be five times higher, to do a comparison with the other bars.

Dr. Paul  41:42  
Yep. And you're getting up there at 25,000 deaths in 2021. Steven, in wrapping this up, I know you're doing all this polling, you're doing some amazing writing on your substack people. You've gotta go check this out. I read it faithfully every day. I think you're publishing every day. You're prolific. Oh, several times. Yeah. Sometimes it's more than once a day. Oh, yeah. No, it's

Steve Kirsch  42:04  
not. Sometimes it's most of the time, it's more than one. Guilty.

Dr. Paul  42:07  
That's why well, I just keep finding them. And they're all brilliant. So top doctors are calling for an end to this nonsense. We got to stop this, this COVID Jab program. Nothing seems to be happening in that area. Do you have thoughts of how we can get this information out? I mean, I, having lived through this for the last 20 years with the other vaccines I've sort of reverted to just educating people, I think, because if the authorities aren't going to do anything about it, then we we have to educate the population so that they can wake up.

Steve Kirsch  42:42  
Yeah. And there are authorities who are doing stuff about it. Like in Denmark, if you're under 50, you can get the vaccine.

Dr. Paul  42:48  
That is really good news. I read that on your substack just recently. Think of that, folks, there's an entire country where you cannot get it. Those scientists, doctors and even public health officials had realized we made a mistake, and we're not going to keep making this mistake. Right? How do we make that worse?

Steve Kirsch  43:07  
And of course, they rationalize it by saying, Well, now that we have herd immunity from the vaccines, we don't need them anymore, right? Because they're never going to go back and say, We messed up.

Dr. Paul  43:17  
So Steve, you know, this data probably better than almost anybody. Did you get the vaccine?

Steve Kirsch  43:23  
Yes. Cuz I, at the time, I was believing the FDA. I just was like most people thinking like, wow, they are they're the experts. I'm sure they went through all the data with a fine tooth comb. And you can trust the FDA and trust the CDC because they're trustable authorities and everybody in the world trust them. You know, it's like that with the Gardasil vaccine. I mean, that is amazing that they baited Gardasil at the time, and three times as many eave adverse events as all vaccines in history. At the time, Gardasil went on the market,

Dr. Paul  44:02  
Gardasil was the worst vaccine on the market until this COVID thing,

Steve Kirsch  44:06  
right? Yeah, it was, it was the the by far the winner in terms of the most number of side effects. So three times as many as all vaccines in history,

Dr. Paul  44:18  
a couple of thoughts from you, in closing for our audience. What would you want people to do for their own selves? And And second question, what do you see as the way forward for us as a as a population, a nation a world?

Steve Kirsch  44:31  
Yeah, well, you know, first of all, just like, there's a saying Andrew Wakefield was right, and their T shirts that says Andrew Wakefield was right. There shouldn't be one that says Paul Thomas was right, too. So you know, I want to give you credit, Paul for for doing the work and exposing this and speaking out and you know, having your career destroyed for telling the truth. So So first, I want to acknowledge all the work that you've done because most people don't even know who you are. are certainly I mean, I admit I didn't know who you were until James Lyons Weiler said, autonomous, you got to talk to him you understand his story. So I started educating myself on that. So the onion look, the advice is don't get any vaccines, don't get the call that vaccines don't get COVID boosters, and don't get any other vaccines either. And what you should do instead is you should read this book. And you don't have to read the whole book, I will not fault you, if you don't read the whole book, you can read the last chapter, the book II read the first chapter of the book, you can read the third chapter. My favorite chapter is on bears. And then what you do is you ask your doctor, if your doctor tries to get you to take one of these vaccines. Ask your doctor for the all cause. mortality, morbidity, risk benefit analysis? Yep. How many people died? You know, and in the published paper, you have a problem studies show me that? Yeah, yeah. If they can't, if they can't show you that, then you run for the hills.

Dr. Paul  46:10  
Wow, Steve, thank you so much for being on the show. And for bringing this knowledge and impactful presentation to the world. I got to see it at the conference, but now others can see it as well. And how can people get a hold of your information? Let's just make sure they know how to get

Steve Kirsch  46:30  
Steve kirsch.substack.com. So pretty easy to find. Perfect. All right. Thanks. Thank you

Dr. Paul  46:44  
Welcome Bernadette back to the against the wind you are very important feature here you our Public Policy Director of informed choice Washington, a host of informed life radio. And I know you're now in Tennessee, doing incredible work along with getting your big part of the getting ivermectin as a over the counter drug.

Bernadette Pajer  47:05  
So yes, over the counter from a pharmacist to get a couple of questions to ask. And there you go. You can buy it. And I recently was at a big event, a CHD, the inaugural conference. And the demand for the it was in Knoxville, Tennessee, the demand for the ivermectin was really high. And you know, it was really cool. Dr. Paul, there were I think more people who recognize me, and thanked me for my work because of appearing on your show. My own show. Everybody's watching Dr. Paul, I thought that was so awesome.

Dr. Paul  47:36  
Thank you. You are a blessing to the world. And oh, however we can get your message out there. I'm happy to help. And you've been a big help to the show. So thank you. Well, thank

Bernadette Pajer  47:46  
you right back. atcha. Shall we get to it today?

Dr. Paul  47:49  
So what I'm excited about is it's going to be quick, because you know, it's important, but we want to we want to touch on this is the ACI P and CDC vote and what they're doing with the COVID vaccine for the childhood schedule? Yes,

Bernadette Pajer  48:03  
exactly. So most people most of your viewers will have already heard, but let's go over what just happened. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices got together and one of the regular meetings. This is a group that is highly conflicted, but they claim no conflicts. And I've got to tell you that they proudly announced that one of the new members is from the American Pharmacists Association. And he claimed no conflict of interest. All he does is make living selling in vaccine products, right? How can there be no conflict? It's just I don't understand their mindset. On October 20 2022, the ASIC voted 15 to zero to add COVID-19 shots to the CDCs pediatric schedule. And this is six months through 18 years. The CDC schedule is a recommendation at the federal level, it is not a mandate of any sort, it is a recommendation. However, a lot of people, a lot of doctors, they treat it as gospel as law. Each state actually has a method for deciding what is required for daycare and school. And each state has their own exemption laws. Okay. So what we want to try to help individuals do because now is the time. I mean, if you've never been active before, this is it. This is the time for you to stand up and speak out. So if you are not already aligned with the medical freedom group strong in your state, you need to do that now. Right now. The groups in your state who've been working for many, many years on vaccination issues, they know the law they know the process. They know where you need to put your energy to make sure that your state does not mandate these shots. send your kids. So one way to do it is to go to children's health, health defense.org and look for their drop down menu on chapters see if there's a chapter in your state. Or you can go to health choice.org. And look for their affiliates. There's a lot of states that are united underneath Health Choice. And that includes informed choice Washington and the Tennessee Coalition for vaccine choice. If your state isn't showing up there, you can do an internet search without the the Google browser, you're going to have to use another browser. And in order to really find it. Otherwise, you're going to have about 100 pages of CDC web links before you can get to any good information. Another step you can do is call or email, your state health department, email might actually be more useful, because then they will send you links. And I encourage you to ask for the citations to the laws and the rules. So you can read exactly what the law and rule is and make sure that you're not bending the law or abusing the law in your state, and ask specifically what the process is to change school requirements for vaccines in your state. And another step you should take is to call and email your state legislators. Also ask them, Hey, can you cite vaccine law in the state what's required, and let your opinion be known that you do not agree with as a SIP decision, and you do not want ever to have mandates in your state. So get vocal now, I tell you, we need for the next couple of months, we need phones ringing emails stuffed, and people showing up and making appointments everywhere, we have to get very, very loud, it's time to roar like the lion. So search, the other thing you can do is search your state's vaccination laws. So you'll search for say, Tennessee immunization requirements. And it can get you where your need where you need, if all these other things have failed to be too slow for you. And the good news is the fabulous organization called stand for health freedom. I'm actually the Tennessee director of Stanford health.

Dr. Paul  52:18  
Good for you. Yeah, amazing organization. Everybody, you've got to join them, they are doing incredible work

Bernadette Pajer  52:24  
they are and one of the one of the best things they do is create action campaigns, or support state level action campaigns and push them out there. So everybody's aware of them. And also they do national level. I've talked to the people at the national level at Stendra freedom. They're busy gathering the laws and rules in every single state and creating a resource so that you'll be able to go to them and find out what what happens in your state. So you can figure out what to do to take action to prevent the shots bent from being added to the school schedule. So that will be at Health stand for health freedom.com. It's free to sign up, sign up, get on there, get their newsletters, and they'll have your state when you sign up. And that way they can send you some specific information to your state as those specific actions come to be. Absolutely. Yeah. And then one last thing I wanted to share with your viewers here is this awesome art by Bob. Bob, the artist at Bob moran.eu co.uk. He got into the politics of what's happening. A give a little heads up mature warning, if you go look is some of his stuff is really in your face. kind of shocking in some of it. But it's so powerful. So we've got the mama with her her baby and the

Dr. Paul  53:50  
steroids is your time to protect.

Bernadette Pajer  53:53  
Yep. Yeah. And as I mentioned to you early Dr. Paul, I love this art where you know, early on in this, they were saying to vaccinate your children in order to protect the adults and they've done that with other shots as well. Basically using your child as a human shield for adults. But what they really need now with this, this a SIP vote, putting the shots on the CDC schedule, their their goal they're reaching one step closer to is to put the COVID shots under the the liability shield of the ASA back of the VA

Dr. Paul  54:32  
immunization act. Yep, yes.

Bernadette Pajer  54:34  
So that farmer will still not be live ever no liability

Dr. Paul  54:37  
folks zero liability, mandated profit and mandated harm this kids don't need this vaccine. It does basically no good. And it has the potential and it's not just theoretical potential. It has a massive potential for harm.

Bernadette Pajer  54:53  
Exactly. So we really I'd like to ask the artist Bob to put that stab vest on a Representatives from Pfizer and from Maderna because now our babies are being used as human shields for liability protection for Pharma. That's what they're working toward. And so then lastly, this is what we all need to be. And this is what so many people already air already our I believe he titles this one just mama.

Dr. Paul  55:22  
Okay. I would call it breaking free and you know you've take your cub with you. Yeah, parents you have got to protect, it's never been more clear. The voices are growing the numbers of us who are who are like trying to scream from the mountain top. You know, danger, danger, protect, protect. It's honest, like you said, the next two, three months. And if you can't change, you also have to prepare for this. And I know you would agree or can add to this. Parents, you've got to prepare for the fact that if you live in a state like I live in Oregon, all down the up and down the West Coast, certain states their their track record is clear. once something's put on the childhood immunization schedule from the CDC, it's treated as if it's a recommendation not just a guideline. And it's actually treated as standard of care. So very quickly as mandated, and almost reflexively, everybody pediatricians OB GYN, they just start doing it. So the only protection at that point is you the parent.

Bernadette Pajer  56:23  
Exactly. Thank you so much. I couldn't said it any better. Thank you, Dr. Foul.

Dr. Paul  56:27  
Yeah. So last words.

Bernadette Pajer  56:31  
It's time everybody, no matter where you are, what you're doing now you need to make a part of your life to fight this. Yes, CDC has gone insane, and they are harming our children. And it's time for all of us to just rise up and say no, no, it's time for medical freedom. It's time to say no to the captured oversight agencies and protect our children. That's it.

Dr. Paul  56:56  
Yep. Let's put kids first everybody. Thank you, Bernadette. Thank you, Dr. Paul. Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I'm interviewing Dr. Denise Sibley internal medicine for 32 years quite a story. She has treated over 5000 COVID patients. She was part of the group that passed legislation in Tennessee putting ivermectin over the counter first state that's had that happen. She's been threatened with sanction by her own board, the Board of Internal Medicine, we talk about why it's so difficult to be a bear of the truth today, doctors aren't getting involved. How do we make them participate in this? The science is there? What are the barriers for doctors telling the truth and why faith in God matters in medicine more than ever, and why we can't be silent. Bernadette takes us out with information from the Wii safe data and how you can access it. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul here, I'm mad, I'm upset. I'm furious. Actually, the CDC voted unanimously just recently 15 to zero to put the COVID vaccine on the childhood immunization schedule. This starts February of 2023. Folks, that's just a few months from now, what does this mean? This is the horrifying part, it means that in many states, it will be mandated for your child to attend school. In other words, kids will start getting this job, or they can't go to school. And for a lot of people, especially those who are poor, don't have the option of having a stay home parent or a nanny or a private, separate education, they now have to sacrifice their child to a dangerous product. And here's the bad thing. There's no liability to these companies by getting it on the childhood vaccination schedule. You are now free of liability. If you're the manufacturer, if you're the doctor who's giving it the pharmacist who's giving it it doesn't matter who's involved. Nobody has any liability, that liability falls on you, the parent when something goes wrong, guess what happens? Well, it wasn't the vaccine, oh, you must be crazy. It's horrific. And we know children don't need these vaccines. They're not preventing transmission. They're not preventing people from getting super sick or being hospitalized. It's all risk zero benefit for kids, at least for most adults. Heck, there are countries now where they're not even allowing this vaccine to be given under the age of 50. So other places in the world are waking up, what is going on here with CDC? How can 15 out of 15 people with all the information we have just sort of rubber stamp this thing and send it on its way to harm our children. That's why I'm mad. I couldn't live with myself, if I wasn't bringing you this information. You might say, Oh, he's gone off the rails. If you don't understand the topic, you don't have the data. I would ask this, consider just being a little curious. I mean, why would a guy who had it all in the sense of a huge pediatric practice? risk at all. I mean, I knew by speaking out, I risk losing my license. And that's happening. I knew that but I cannot be quiet. Not when our kids lives are in the crosshairs of a very dangerous product, something we've never seen before. So I'd say forgive me because I always like to beg for forgiveness when I go off the rails. But this was this one's the buck stops here. Parents, you got to draw a line in the sand. And no matter what your kid is not going to get that jab. For some of you, it's going to mean homeschooling somehow, some way you figure it out. For others of you, you're going to have to leave the state you live in because you happen to live in a state where they are reckless, callous? I don't know. It makes no sense. There are so many of us doctors and scientists and researchers who have the data we know what's going on. So I beg you to look for the data. And at least while you're investigating, do not let this jab into anybody you care about. Thanks. I'm Dr.

Welcome Dr. Denise Sibley. It is a pleasure to have you on against the wind.

Dr. Denise Sibley  4:13  
Thank you so much. It is such an honor to be with you, Dr. Thomas. You're just someone I really admire. Thank you so much. Oh, well. Thank

Dr. Paul  4:21  
you. You and I have a few things in common. You graduated from medical school right after I did one year later. What I don't have in common with you is things like the Honor Society and class president for 30 years. I mean, you clearly were at the top of your game and have been for a long time. You're a board certified in internal medicine, correct that way for 32 years and kind of uniquely which I think a lot of the greatest physicians of our time, stepped up to the plate when COVID hit us. And I understand you did that you treated over 5000 patients between In the COVID illness prophylaxis long COVID vaccine injury and you've had great success, we're going to touch on that for sure. You've also been involved in legislation, which is pretty cool. You're there in Tennessee and you got ivermectin to be available without a prescription

Dr. Denise Sibley  5:17  
for correct. Yes,

Dr. Paul  5:18  
that's, that's, that's

Dr. Denise Sibley  5:19  
super. We're the only state in the United States

Dr. Paul  5:22  
you are. So we're gonna chat about that you formed Tennessee freedom doctors in 2021. This is to enable clinicians to collaborate and advance medical freedom. I want to learn more about that. And then we'll touch on how you've been sanctioned or threatened to be sanctioned Medical Board, something that seems to happen to just about every great doctor, there is so much more on your resume I could go into but maybe let's just start with, tell that tell our viewers a little bit about your background and how you ended up where you are today? Well, you

Dr. Denise Sibley  5:55  
know, I wanted to be a doctor from a child, I had a medical illness actually, that led me down that pathway. And I came from a family of nurses, and so figured out it could be a doctor met my husband who was also on the same path. And we got married before I finished college. And so he was all to two years ahead of me always. And so we have gone the path, married 41 years. And he's a physician and I'm a physician and I have always loved taking care of people and love helping them in any way. And I love science. Even when I was a kid I got this Christmas present, it was a invisible human and it had a plastic outside and you could see all the organs and take them out. So even from being a child I like the human body and in science. So I've loved I've loved medicine, I loved internal medicine, because it was always a puzzle. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  6:50  
I think back to medical school, and you mentioned internal medicine. And I remember doing my rotations and thinking, I don't know if I'm smart enough for internal medicine. I mean, the charts you know, back in that day, remember you will be given this pile of charts, you're supposed to review and figure out what the heck's going on with this person who has 13 or 20 different medications? And I'm thinking No, not for me. Well,

Dr. Denise Sibley  7:10  
let's see, that was funny, because third year pediatrics was my first rotation. And they sent me in to do a lumbar puncture on a two year old, you know, you can't explain it to a two year old. And I was like, huh, I don't think I wouldn't be able to talk to my patients. So you know, that's funny, because that just turned me off that I couldn't speak to them, you know, and then understand me, but I loved internal medicine, I would do it all again. And it's fantastic. It's like finding the clues, you know, so

Dr. Paul  7:39  
so we're gonna get to COVID. But tell me a little bit because so many physicians who've dared to venture into really taking appropriate care of those with COVID or speaking up about what's going on with the so called vaccine end up in trouble with either medical boards or you've been threatened with sanction by your internal medicine board, apparently. Yes.

Dr. Denise Sibley  8:02  
So I did testify a lot this spring and our Tennessee House and Senate with several bills we were trying to get pass through. And I truly had never been involved in anything like this before. I didn't even know really how it happened. And Bernadette pager who, you know, we met down there, and we're actually live near each other. So I got involved in that. And I wanted to be the I guess they wanted me to be the doctors voice for some of these. And one of them was ivermectin because I believed very strongly in that. And so it was shortly and we got several real academic folks like Merrick and Cory and Malone. And Ryan Cole and Urso and Ladell, they all came down and helped us as well with testimony. So I certainly didn't do it alone. But it was right after that, within two weeks of that finishing, that I received a letter. And it was it was all all of us that received it. Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Mayer, Dr. Corey, we all received it dated the same day. And it was trumping I did not know that that same day. Yes, May 26. And it was a little bit of a form letter, but then it went into the individual sins that we had committed the misinformation. And so they went I don't have any social media. So all they could do was really go to my homemade website that I made in 2020. And they took statements that I made on some videos and said that was misinformation and they threatened to remove my at that time, my last my year was the last year you could get a lifetime certification. And so I studied really hard and I passed it. And so I had lifetime certification. I've never had any trouble with any thing and Medicine never been reprimanded. And so they threatened to sanction our board certification because of misinformation and not agreeing with the consensus. And so that was the sand and we had to make an appeal, which I referenced the 11 page repeat appeal, as did all the others. And that's been, you know, May, and we've not heard a chirp out of them. Dr. Ron Johnson got behind me, excuse me, Senator Ron Johnson got behind many of us, and we invited them to a debate in DC. And of course, none of them would come.

Dr. Paul  10:41  
And have you had any trouble with the Tennessee Medical Board?

Dr. Denise Sibley  10:45  
Know, the Tennessee medical board. And we had some legislation dealing with that, actually. So the legislators put some protections that we could not be censored for COVID treatment or information. So that was part of some of the legislation that went through and even in my ivermectin bill, that was part of the bill. And then last was that anyone who participated in this collaborative agreement was indemnified. So the pharmacist and the physician, so that has been a really great thing that the legislator, most of the legislators are very good about protecting us. So that's been different than than your state. But that's one of the protections they put in for us. That is doesn't deal with anything else. So in that COVID, and it has a sunset law, it's set to expire this next year, in the middle of the year. So you know, what happens then? Or with the next, the next pandemic?

Dr. Paul  11:54  
Maybe you renew it with some additions to protect information on the total vaccine schedule?

Dr. Denise Sibley  12:02  
Exactly. And just to broaden it that, you know, and my my feeling is, it's the sanctity of the doctor patient relationship. Yeah, I know my patient best. I don't need a government entity entity to tell me what to do. I'm still capable of reading studies and figuring out what's best for my patients,

Dr. Paul  12:23  
and perhaps get something in there about informed consent, the process of informed consent, not being subject to being called misinformation or disinformation.

Dr. Denise Sibley  12:38  
Correct, correct. Yes. Because informed consent is truly lacking in so many things. I really feel like COVID opened my eyes, or the scales fell from my eyes. I, I was not as alert as a you know, as a busy practitioner. I just didn't read the studies myself, I read the abstracts and through the journal light. And now, now I know how biased all of those things aren't, I can actually read a study more critically. And so that's something I've gained even at six to do that. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  13:16  
So So COVID is still upon us. To some extent, I mean, I, I feel like it's fading out. But people still have fear. And you have so much experience having been treating people for the last two and a half years, and how many people you've treated? What is your current recommendation to people about? You know, what they can do to prevent getting it? If they do get it? What should they do? And what are your thoughts about the vaccine, and of course now and this fall, they're rolling out this dual vaccine. Maybe you can expand a little bit, you have so much more experienced than I do actually treating sick patients.

Dr. Denise Sibley  14:00  
Yeah, so I didn't ask to be a COVID. Doctor first. I happened to be available because of just God's providence. When COVID came, and I was paying attention, because I actually have a daughter in France. So they were six weeks ahead of us that was pay attention to the data. They're way ahead of the people here. And I knew that in 2003, they'd use hydroxychloroquine. And for SARS, cov. One, and so when the first two people call me, I was excited, you know, to actually, oh, I think I'll use hydroxychloroquine you know that there was actually papers written on that back in that day,

Dr. Paul  14:41  
and was an author on one of those studies. So he was an author of that, yes, amazing. He knew it worked, and yet he got in the way of us using it. And so

Dr. Denise Sibley  14:51  
the first thing that really made me scratch my head is I called in 10 Plaquenil or hydroxychloroquine, which I mean, I have family close friends and, and hundreds of patients on that four room tall rheumatologic diseases, you know, Sjogren syndrome, you name it. I've said everybody to on their mission trips with hydroxychloroquine. So I've used it my whole career. It's older than me. It's older than me. Okay. So. So I called in 10, to the Walgreens. And they wanted to know what it was for. And I was very proud. I was like, I'm treating COVID, even new the new code. And they said, well, we can't get it to you. You know, I just I could not comprehend. And I said, Do you not have it? You know, what's the problem? And she goes, Oh, wait, we can't give it to you for that. And I just hung up the phone and was flabbergasted. So I called another pharmacy. Same thing. And I mean, we're talking 10 tablets, it wouldn't cost less than $10. And I've been calling it in all my life. Right? I actually, you know, I finally got them some. But I just hung up the phone, I said, I said to my husband, something is very, very strange. And that started, you know, I said, We've never done medicine like this. And that started me down the whole, the whole rabbit trail, so to speak of just what is going on? Why are they treating this differently, we've never behaved like this. And of course, it opened my eyes. And then when I opened my eyes to the deception of COVID. And all of the fake studies and the things they were doing just the things that didn't make sense, wear masks, and we knew they didn't help with respiratory illnesses at all before this, you know, in this stay at home. We've never done that all the countries all together. So a lot of it didn't make sense. Our church closed, couldn't could, I mean, just crazy things as you know. And so I started doing my own research. And, and I had time, that was the blessing. I had time, if it had been a busy time, I don't think I would have paid as much attention. But the combination of odd sayings that didn't make sense in my 40 years of being out of medical school, and then having the time to actually look so when the Pfizer trial data came out, it was December 10. I stayed up all night. And I read it with a yellow highlighter and a red pen stayed up all night. And I was like, Oh, my goodness. And you know, I had time to do those kinds that 1000s of hours of self study, and just digging in and trying to find colleagues who, you know, we're doing things in France or in Texas and New York. And it really began Paul, a collaborative agree a collaborative system among physicians, which I've missed, because with I didn't do electronic records, I was still on paper. And but um, you know, with that came isolation, especially as a solo practitioner, I was, you know, by myself, I had good clinician, nurses, but I was by myself and the other calling each other wasn't there anymore. And now we started talking and emailing and just, you know, what would you do? What do you what are you doing? And I love that. It was like, medicine blossomed again, like we used to do. And so I learned, and I learned about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin and so what would I recommend now?

I think ivermectin is the is the way to go. I think it has a longer period, during which it's helpful. hydroxychloroquine. I've used a lot of it. In fact, in the beginning, that's all I had, I didn't know about ivermectin. And so, ivermectin, we did sort according to weight. And there's great protocols on the FLCC, which is really who I've been following a lot know those people very well. And so I would recommend if you have anything that feels like COVID, or don't wait, right now, the tests are negative, those rapid tests are negative two or three times before they test positive and just go ahead and take your ivermectin for at least five days, you can take it longer because it helps there's three phases COVID, antiviral, the inflammatory. And then you've got the coagulopathy. And actually, the ivermectin helps with all of those phases, and it helps with vaccine injuries. There's really no point in the disease that you can't find a benefit. So to me, it's the most broad, broadly used one I use it for prevention. So some people that have been keen Yep. Or they have some kind of cancer, they might stay on it twice a week. And they have from the very beginning, when we started using ivermectin, it's a good prophylactic for post exposure. So if a husband has COVID, I'm going to go ahead and treat his wife, because she's living there in the house, she's gonna get it and give her five days of post exposure prophylaxis. And then you get into the long haul syndrome, which long haul to me means that you had COVID. And you had symptoms there were residual, and then there's vaccine injury. So I don't I don't call getting vaccinated, and having persistent symptoms long COVID. That's a vaccine injury. And so I have over 600 of those patients, and

Dr. Paul  20:51  
you have 600 vaccine injury patients. And how many long haul patients who are not vaccine injured.

Dr. Denise Sibley  21:00  
Not that many, probably about more like 250, something like

Dr. Paul  21:04  
that. This is really affected a lot of people

Dr. Denise Sibley  21:07  
and it is affecting if you're treated early. With COVID, with one of the medications, you're much less likely to have any long COVID symptoms, it is pretty amazing. If you stop the virus, you will you will not get into line I've had COVID Probably not vaccinated. And I, you know, my nine year old mom and 92 year old dad at COVID, as well as my whole family, and we had it during delta. So

Dr. Paul  21:41  
yeah, I had it as well at about a week of fatigue, and, you know, fever at the very beginning chills for one night. But I'm in pediatrics and in pediatrics kids just get well quick if they even get sick at all. And the only real disasters have been people who got the vaccine and ended up with myocarditis. I had one child hospitalized for that first myocarditis case I'd ever seen in my career. Tell us more about long haul the symptoms. What are people experiencing? And what are the things you're doing that are most effective?

Dr. Denise Sibley  22:15  
There's a whole protocol on FLCC as well, for long haul. And so there it's it's various agents and you really have to tailor it to the person. So a lot of people have fatigue. A lot of people have shortness of breath, easy fatigue ability, neurologic symptoms, some have brain fog, they can't concentrate, they can't do their computer job, their eyes don't converge. They feel like gi they have a lot of loose stools, they're a lot less loss weight. Those are some of the most common, but I think the and then the vaccine injury, certainly neurologic symptoms are the most common. And sorry, and so those are it's very hard to treat vaccine injury because each person is different. They can have pulmonary neurologic, liver, everything, every every system can be involved and is very individualized. So you try one agent like an ivermectin that's always first I'll try some of the anti histamine therapy because a lot of it is an anti inflammatory reaction. So or an inflammatory reaction, so I'll use for motivating and, and one of the h one blockers like Benadryl or Allegra and then we use low dose Naltrexone. fluvoxamine mean, there's a whole host of things. And different people have different things that they found helpful. But anything, I just try and go one step at a time so that you know what helps. And if it doesn't help, then we back off and we try something else. So it's super individualized, it's individualized medicine. And there's not a one size fits all, but they are the most devastating of doctors and nurses and pharmacists, and senators and representatives that are vaccine injured. People have been disabled. Yeah. Physical Therapists that's in a wheelchair with a trach.

Dr. Paul  24:40  
So these people seek you out. I'm guessing because you take this seriously and you understand why it happened it How are most of your peers in your area? They're dealing with this.

Dr. Denise Sibley  24:55  
Okay, so I'm so low and I have been since 2003. I used to be a part of a bakery. Uh, and most folks in this area, I'd say 95% of doctors are in a big group, or are owned by the hospital, the monopoly health system here. So they're pretty captured. They can't do a lot, or they've been told that things will happen to them if they do. And so it's the baby little band of us independence and a lot of us are my age, though, and some of them have come out of retirement. We've had, we've got E and T's, we've got OB GYN, we've got pediatricians, we've got neurologists, we've got plastic, we've got anybody that will help, help. And we get together as a little band, and we share information. And they other folks, I mean, they'll actually give my phone number. So the big group or I used to work will give my phone number out.

Dr. Paul  25:58  
They today they somehow don't feel like they can risk their career to do what is clearly the right thing to do. Isn't that is this insane?

Dr. Denise Sibley  26:10  
It it is. It's just not ethical. I couldn't go to sleep at night. I don't know. Well, and I saw that. So I one of the big, huge things that happened was I had a patient. This was in February of 21. And he called me from his ICU room he had got got my cell phone because I use my cell phone. And he said, I think I'm done a COVID and someone sent me one of your videos. Would you help me? He was in the hospital, just you know, not far from my house. And I said, Well, yes, I'll I'll help you. But you know, I, I can't come you're obviously you know, they have the hospitalist system, and that whole thing, you know, can't come in and do that. But, um, but I will help you Sorry. And so I embarked and went up the chain of command at that hospital. So I talked to his primary, his hospitalist, his pulmonologist, the CMO, went up the whole chain of command, can we do this? Can we get ivermectin? No, not allowed to have our machten. What if his family brought in No, not allowed. So at that time, the court orders to to give patients ivermectin was popular, so hard on the sevens attorney, because all the rest of the conflicts of interest with the health system. They said they would help us. And we were going to get a court order to administer the Avermectin. Because he really was he was sick. And they weren't feeding him. They weren't giving him IVs. He was on BiPAP. He couldn't eat. And he was very desperate. And of course, his family, you know, was allowed in just rarely. And he was scared to death. And the long and short of it is is that the hospital monopoly system, though their legal team, just petrified, the lawyer I chosen and he he just couldn't do anything. And so we got nowhere with that. And there was really nothing else I could do. And it it made me physically, ill. Yeah. And I had to talk to the CMO. And I said, what you're doing is wrong. You are killing people. And the reason why your staff is so burnt out, because is that it's not yes, they're working. But they know what they're doing is wrong, and you're making them do it. And that's why they're burnout. It's a cognitive dissonance. It's, it's unethical and they know it. That's what's wrong with your staff. Because I noticed, and anyway, it didn't change their minds. And I, his wife wanted me to go and pray for him. Because his own pastor wouldn't go. And so I said, Okay, I can do that. I will I will do anything. And I I took some olive oil to anoint him with a little bit anyway. And they were watching me through the windows because I made the mistake of wearing my badge. And I didn't know that was a mistake. I've worn it for 30 Some years in that hospital. That's how you get in. But I prayed for him. And I left. I did not do anything else. I did not touch anything in the room. And by the time I got down to the the entrance of the hospital, they were calling me told me I was inappropriate. But I violated visitation policy. And I said, Well, I was there as a minister. And they said, Well, you had your badge on

Dr. Paul  30:01  
Oh my goodness, go figure. This man survive. No, you die, but has to break.

Dr. Denise Sibley  30:08  
I mean, that made me sick enough that I mean physically sick, physically sick. And it wasn't it was. Absolutely I said this is this is pullout war. And it didn't stop me at all. In fact, I was like, if this is what they're doing to people, I'm turning up about 10 notches. And so ever since then, I mean, it's been full out ever since the beginning. And I felt like I have nothing to lose. You

Dr. Paul  30:42  
know, I mean, we, God bless you for standing strong against all that adversity. You've clearly saved hundreds, if not 1000s of lives. And how many more could have been saved? If we could have somehow reached our peers? What can we do? Why? What's the barriers for these doctors? I mean, I know there's the economic threat of you're gonna get fired. That's a big one.

Dr. Denise Sibley  31:06  
Well, there's such capture, there's capture everywhere, there's capture the medical schools, there's captures of the the regulatory agencies, this captures of the hospital. I mean, all the protocols came down from on high, even our most latest masking policy, which just came out this week. It came from on high at the at the health system, not? I mean, it's it's corporate policy. The legislative folks are I mean, some of them are captured. There's capture everywhere, and I don't know how to wake them up. Now, if someone has an honest question, I will talk to them all day, and there have been a few. But most people, they they, you know, yeah. You know, they do not want to hear anything, because I believe it hurts them. It hurts them to hear the truth. And they can't, to me, it's a pride issue. They can admit after two and a half years that they were wrong, and what have they done. So they would just rather keep their head down and continue on the same path. So I don't know how to fix it if they're not awake. You know, our phone, some some family members are not awake. I mean,

Dr. Paul  32:24  
yeah. What, what kind of outcomes have you had,

Dr. Denise Sibley  32:28  
I've had super outcomes. I mean, during Delta, when it was really, really severe. I got some folks that were day 10 and 12 that were sent to me. And that's a hard time to turn the boat around because you're into the full, what really kills people's that inflammatory phase where their lungs, you know, turn into what we used to call boop B O P, you know, an organizing pneumonia kind of thing. And they need a lot of steroids. And they weren't giving them steroids in the hospital. They were given dexamethasone six milligrams twice a day, if you could get that, but, and remdesivir, which was killing people, but I had four deaths. Now with the vaccine injured, I've had five folks die this summer vaccine that I could not I could not turn the boat around. They had just such a multitude of problems. And I I tried my best and you know, they ended up going into the hospital and had you know, cult total collect dummies on the vent. I mean bleeding everywhere, pulmonary, total respiratory failure and kidney failure. And I couldn't turn that boat around so that and I've only had one person on oxygen since the winter. And that was someone who was a four shot person. So nobody unvaccinated has been on oxygen this whole summer.

Dr. Paul  34:04  
So then you probably have a formed opinion about the vaccines. What are you telling your patients?

Dr. Denise Sibley  34:10  
Well, they're not vaccines, they're Genet genetic therapy. And I use that just so that they they know the term vaccine, and that's what it's called. But it's genetic therapy. And from the get go, that was one thing that I really dove into that, Oh, for 10 years, we've been trying to make a genetic therapy vaccine and it's not work because of ad E and you know, the animals didn't make it and Hmm But all of a sudden we're gonna skip the animal trials and just do it and and we'll see how it goes.

Dr. Paul  34:47  
Let's experiment on the human population. You throughout the term at that others may not understand

Dr. Denise Sibley  34:54  
and enhancement so yes, when you've given someone so the lots that have been available have been the original Wuhan sequence, or whatever they were, you know, people differ on what it actually was. But it was the original sequence or the original variant, let's say. And so they've continued to give that repeatedly even though the variants have changed. And when you do that, you lock someone into making antibodies against that. But if another one comes in infects them, they then have a decreased ability to fight that it actually puts them at a decreased advantage. And so it makes the symptoms worse, the disease worse. And that's what they saw in the animal trials for the 10 years. Before leading up to these genetic vaccines, they could never bring one to market. I think the RSV was tried in some children that was deadly. But it, it, it's a priming, it's hard to explain in layman's terms, but it's a priming or rent original antigenic sin where you're, you're, you're making someone very sensitive to one element. And when another variant of that comes around, your body just kind of is going around the gerbil wheel on this one, and the other one just takes over and you have worse disease. So it's a very inefficient way of treating an illness. And it's actually why we have negative vaccine efficacy. And what that means is that getting the shots, makes you more likely to get COVID over and over. And I've seen that this summer. So,

Dr. Paul  36:45  
and this wasn't a illness traditionally that you would see in the summer.

Dr. Denise Sibley  36:50  
Now we had more viral, febrile illnesses this summer than I've ever seen in my entire practicing life. Never seen so many. And And now, you know, there are See, I was looking at the scorecard for our hospital yesterday. I think there are there's been over almost 700 people that have died since March of COVID. Really, at our hospital system, now it's a 21 facility system, and 21 counties, but and you know, I think they had if I'm remembering the right, I think it was 50 people in the hospital. So I mean, those aren't people I know, you know, that are running in my circles. But the COVID You know, the person I have had on a ventilator and on him oxygen was a foreshock person. And what do I think about the by Vaillant? So, as you know, on Wednesday before Labor Day, that was authorized emergently by the FDA. Then on the Friday, the CDC gave their good, good authorization for it. And then by Tuesday after Labor Day, it was already in our Walgreens here. Wow, I was like, Wow, that's pretty fast. How do they get to Podunk Johnson City, Tennessee, so quit over a holiday. But anyway. So the by Vaillant was tested on eight mice, and when they expose the mice, they all got it, and then they sacrificed them. No humans whatsoever. And it combines the Wuhan original strand was the BA for ba five. And who knows what happens when you combine that the mice

Dr. Paul  38:44  
don't even really know what happened to the rats because they sacrificed them. Correct. So that's research

Dr. Denise Sibley  38:51  
that anybody that you know, I just I scratched my head if you if you think that safe and I tell people, they can't understand this well, unless I use this illustration. And I don't think it's unique to me. But if he gave your dog three rabies shots in a year, and he still got rabies, what would you think

Dr. Paul  39:14  
we should give for?

Dr. Denise Sibley  39:17  
And people are like, Oh, okay, I get it. You know, so

Dr. Paul  39:23  
I like your example. Yeah, it really is.

Dr. Denise Sibley  39:26  
It makes people sicker and sicker. And now we have you know, people so sick after three, the third one, especially getting that third one and then the fourth one. And Lord forbid if you and nobody has called me that's actually admitted to the the five Eylandt. But yeah, that's kind of a funny thing, too, because I know where I stand so they'll often not. Tell me it isn't folks.

Dr. Paul  39:59  
I hope you take note of that point in that is, be honest about the fact that you've taken these jabs. Those of us who can help you will take that information and run with it so that we can really help you.

Dr. Denise Sibley  40:15  
Right? Yeah. So but yes, my ivermectin over the counter is wonderful we, I bet you I get a thout. So they're all under my name, have 22 pharmacies now, in Tennessee. So it's selected pharmacies that have entered into this very specific agreement, prescribed by the law. And it defines who can get it. And, you know, the contraindications or the reasons you can't get it. That would be if you're under 18. That was in the law. I excluded pregnant and breastfeeding women just because I'm an internist. And I don't want to go into that. And then there are certain drugs and there's just a few. But otherwise, you can walk physically into these. And you have to physically be there can't be mail order to you. You can walk physically in and get ivermectin behind the counter.

Dr. Paul  41:10  
How does one figure out which pharmacies are?

Dr. Denise Sibley  41:13  
Well, I have, we have lists, you know, and I just added one yesterday. But we have medical tourism. Now. Apparently, it's gone out everywhere. And people from Toronto, come here. People from California, I love

Dr. Paul  41:29  
talking about a life saving medication that you're being denied. I get it. So how would one reach you?

Dr. Denise Sibley  41:37  
Well, I have a website that's old, because I haven't had time to update. It's called Denise Sibley md.com.

Dr. Paul  41:45  
Well, before we wrap up, I'd be interested in your input on a couple of things. These are big questions. So okay, I can kind of cut them down into bite sized pieces. One is, what's going on? Why is this happening on such a global scale?

Dr. Denise Sibley  42:04  
It's been many years in the planning. And I was oblivious to it. But obviously, I think there are patents, and there are plenty of documents. To reference, it was not hidden, really, it was hidden to me, because I wasn't paying attention to that. But I think there are plenty of documents and scenarios, tabletop exercises, whatever, that this has been in the plan for a long time. And it is a global phenomenon. And that's one of the things that makes it so different from anything we've seen in medicine. And that's why everybody does exactly the same thing. And why doctors, you know, in another country are being censored, just like we are. So my version of it has more of a biblical perspective, that this is actually the fulfilment of some of the things in the Bible. So I'm, I'm not afraid. And I'm not scared, and definitely is. But I've heard you say faith over fear. I've got that all over my house, faith over fear. And so to me, it's a very exciting time, because we are warriors of the truth. We have boots on the ground, and I will, as Robert F. Kennedy says, I will die with my boots on even if it's unpopular, but there are few of us.

Dr. Paul  43:32  
Yep. And I've always felt like the truth is singular, but but then I get challenged by people who say, Well, no, that's your truth. I have a different truth. And we I know we have to have a dialogue to help people come along, because I mean, even you and I who are now much more aware of what's going on. We weren't aware at one point. And so you know, I mean, I remember way back when where I was saying vaccines are safe and effective. End of story.

Dr. Denise Sibley  44:05  
It is a journey and people are if they have open eyes and open ears and they want to learn that's one thing but if they have their their ears totally closed. I don't know how you know, some federal have to wake them up. But I don't sit in argue with people. I don't find that helpful.

Dr. Paul  44:26  
Well, I've so enjoyed this talk. Dr. Sibley. What would I want to have you just give last words for our audience? Maybe a message of hope.

Dr. Denise Sibley  44:38  
Well, you know, I I think it's the most exciting time to be alive. And that sounds really strange. But it's exciting because you can make such a difference. And you can be the hope that people need and help them to not hide behind their mask or to hide in their house and to say hey, there's something You can do if you get sick, you don't have to worry. You know, there are people to help. And so to me, again, my Christian worldview gives me a lot of hope. Because I know where this is headed. But just that I have something that I can give folks that can give them encouragement during this really, really dark time. And I think that's why we're here. And that's what that's what invigorates me. And why I do it all again. Even at this point, you know, I could just kind of return the grandma or something. I don't know, but, but I'm very invigorated. And I want to offer hope because there's not a lot of hope bears out there. And truth bears, and I will always be a truth bear. Even if it costs me. I, I'm fine with it. So just, you know, be the truth. And be the light. And don't be afraid. Don't be a slave of death. Because that's not good mentally, physically, socially. It's not good for you spiritually. So it's, that would be my message of hope to be a truth bear and a light bear always. And pray big like Polly Polly, Tommy says for a bit. Get out. And, and keep keep with your people. You know, community is so important. We are in a group every night. It seems like

Dr. Paul  46:38  
a man. Just like you. Just like

Dr. Denise Sibley  46:41  
you. Yep. Hi. My daughter introduced me to you. You know, my daughter introduced me to you and she's a pastry chef. And but she knew somehow that you had the words of wisdom and I listened to you. So here I am a doctor didn't even know you. And your your courageous and your methodical way. Impressive impresses young mama bears, and I'm an old grandma bear.

Dr. Paul  47:12  
I'm kind of grandpa bear with you there. And it's a real honor and a privilege to have gotten to know you. You have a very powerful message and and very gentle way of sharing it. So I think this adds a lot to our movement. And we should Circle round again at some point. Have a blessed day.

Dr. Denise Sibley  47:31  
Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Paul.

Dr. Paul  47:40  
Welcome to against the wind Bernadette pager, it's always a privilege to have you on the show you are bringing us be the news AI and today you're bringing some really important information that's just sort of been released the V safe data. So give us a little introduction on what that is and what it means for us.

Bernadette Pajer  47:59  
All right, I'd be very happy to do that. So yeah, so after more than a year, the attorney Aaron Siri and the informed consent Action Network finally managed to get the de identified V Safe App Data. And so the refocus is now that we have information to this data, let's examine what this means. So the CDC, with the COVID-19 vaccines coming out, created this app that people who got the shot could put on their smartphone and check in regularly and the app would check in with you to ask how you were doing. And so here's the address there if anybody wants to go visit that. So, you know, it's all this sort of user friendly and I personally find this a little bit offensive considering how serious the shots are and the adverse reactions happening to have all these little smiley faces and cheerful fonts and all this this is serious medical intervention here. Not cartoons. But anyway, some key facts to know the V safe debt data represents. Well, the first point is at least 262,908,000 people according to USA facts.org have received at least one dose of a COVID shot in the United States. The visa date. Go

Dr. Paul  49:25  
ahead point right there is something else. So aren't there like 300 million people in the US?

Bernadette Pajer  49:30  
I don't know the population. That's a good question. Well, it says 79% of the population has received it. That's their claim. So it astounds me and the VSA data represents 10,108,000 Approximately individual users. So the data that we're seeing there is just 3.9% of the total number of people have got a shot. The vast majority of people 90 6.1% of the people did not use this app created by the CDC. That's for whatever reason, and a lot of people have never even heard of it. And the CDC fairly quickly stopped promoting it, stop talking about it, stop making sure people used it. I wonder why?

Dr. Paul  50:18  
I wonder why we're gonna talk about that.

Bernadette Pajer  50:21  
The app has very limited pre populated symptom fields to check. And I will show you what those are. The apps free form field data has not been released yet. We'll talk about that. And it only allowed for 250 characters to type in. And you know, anybody who's tried to limit characters and making any sort of posts knows how little that is. The FDA and the CDC, prior to the release of these shots, both had lists of adverse events and special interests that they wanted to watch for that they knew the shots had biological plausibility based on the platform and the ingredients and past science that they knew to watch for. But there was none of none of those were pre populated in this app. And so as somebody was progressing, using their app to report ongoing and increasing symptoms, there was no easy way to do it, there was no way to tell them, they were experiencing it and base. And of course, the the outcome is unknown for all the app users because you know, there, there was no way you could be well one day and have a stroke the next and unless somebody was picking up your phone and entering that in for you. They weren't,

Dr. Paul  51:38  
we might have underreporting of deaths,

Bernadette Pajer  51:41  
and the reporting of deaths Vera DFE. Safe, it's not where deaths are being reported. Definitely

Dr. Paul  51:46  
report your death if you're already dead.

Bernadette Pajer  51:49  
Exactly. So they had three categories of adverse health outcomes that the BCF Safe app was asking about if you were unable to perform normal activities, if you missed work or school, or if you required medical care. They asked about that. It freeform, again, limited to 250 characters, and these are the symptoms that you could check the box and then degree of severity that you're experiencing. And you can see that these, these could be severe. But most of them aren't things that you know, when you look at loss of appetite, sleepiness, chills, nausea, you know, general unwellness, they certainly don't represent the severe adverse reactions that people are reporting to theirs, and being reported all over. So I wanted to give you an idea back in 2021, in the spring, an individual in Washington State was severely injured by the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. And I guess we call that one a shot as well, because it's DNA technology. It's different. It's close to the mRNA. It still makes your body produce spike protein. But anyway, this was her freeform text, there's a little snapshot where she her symptoms were getting progressively worse, and she had to keep going to the ER and her health was just spiraling and she was really afraid. And here's one just show she's typing helped me. And they are not helping her. Nobody from the CDC is getting back to her. We have heard some people have heard from the CDC, but not everybody is being helped or being reached out to by the CDC. And she's been keeping a highly detailed record of everybody she has reached out to including the pharmaceutical company. And it's going to be amazing when her data all comes out. She's writing a book about the experience. Here is a list of the preliminary list of adverse events of special interests that the CDC and FDA both knew to look for. And there's an article on informed choice ba.org. There's the link, if anybody wants to go read the full page with links to the the Virbac meeting where these were presented the FTAs vaccine and related biological advisory committee meetings where these were presented prior to authorization of the shots. Dr. Paul, what do you think about some of those health issues listed?

Dr. Paul  54:25  
Well, there's some serious stuff there.

Bernadette Pajer  54:28  
And have you have you seen any of that reported to you, too, there's too in the media?

Dr. Paul  54:36  
Well, yeah, there's some of that and there's for sure, myocarditis, for example.

Bernadette Pajer  54:41  
You know what I looked through it, it I believe they have all been, yeah, every single one of those has been reported to VAERS in some form, and some of them quite a bit. And there are some things I don't think it had that a couple of things that have shown up in high numbers that aren't there. Are we seeing um, have appendicitis. That one is showing up quite a lot of errors and the tinnitus. I don't see tinnitus listed. Not a complete list. But this is what they were going to be looking for. And yet there was no way to report it. Unless you free texted it in that app, you know, as things went forward. So wonderfully, I can decide they must have hired some amazing programmers who are ready to go with a program that allows you to search the data once it came in, because the day they got it, this went up. It's fantastic. So everyone can go to I can decide.org, backslash v dash safe dash data and get to this wonderful forum where you can explore you can do some research and find out what you can on the limited data provided you can see what's what's there. And and you'll see that about a third of the people had their health impacted, in 1.2 million reported. See what was the category there? Well, point 8 million had to seek medical attention. required medical attention 1.3 million Mr. Worker school, and 1.2 million have their normal activities interrupted. So this, this data is going to be good to have. It is limited, but I know a lot of people are doing a deep dive to see what they can make of it to try to paint a better picture and we'll bring you that information as it comes along.

Dr. Paul  56:50  
Yeah, this burned out. This is a new, very important resource of vaccine injury. Unfortunately, most of the studies were control groups or destroy they were not doing any ongoing studies, Pfizer, moderna, all of them. So this is a great resource. I just read an article on CHD children's health defense published on October 3, or fourth. And they'd already discovered in this data that just went up. At that point, just less than a million people were seeking medical attention emergency room care or hospitalization following the vaccine and 2.5 million missed work school or normal activities as a result of the vaccine, massive numbers of significant injury. So and as important.

Bernadette Pajer  57:43  
Sorry about that. Yeah, go ahead. Well, like you know, I can't help thinking when I look at that one that you could check for like a stomach ache. And I think of Maddie Degray. And when she was in the clinical trial, and she to the clinical trial, limited what you could easily report on their standard forms. And early on, you know, it's like, well, stomachache, you know, they were her mother was trying to find out what to check, right. And that's what she ended up being officially reported with, not in a wheelchair paralyzed, unable to eat seizures, all the other things that actually happened to her. This is alarming, because as you know, we cannot make good public policy decisions. We can't make good individual health decisions without good data. And this is so infuriating. We were promised when these products were released, that that the CDC and the FDA and all the federal agencies were going to use, they listed four or five different monitoring systems that they would use. All of them suffer from quality issues from under reporting. And then lack of access, like the vaccine safety DataLink data, which might be able to actually really answer some questions they don't give anybody access to. And what the new study just came out on aluminum adjuvants, and this by the CDC themselves, because they were tasked to study certain conditions related to exposure to pediatric vaccines, and they their analysis of the VSD data show that the more aluminum you're exposed to, the more your risk of persistent asthma goes up. It took them how many decades to do this study. Right? Why weren't they doing it all along? Right. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  59:43  
So that's a topic I jack lines we learned I published about the fact that the CDC schedule creates a situation with regards to aluminum, where infants are above toxic levels for the first seven months of their lives. Yes, 30% of the time, if you're four Following the CDC schedule, yes, it's tragic.

Bernadette Pajer  1:00:04  
So if we're going to have a couple of decades delay of finding out the truth of these COVID shots, and the amount of injury is so blatantly in your face, what do we do about it? Dr. Paul, how do we get the public health agencies done? Let me give you one example, if I may. In Washington State, the the state now the Office of Financial Management, which oversees public employees, state employees has just mandated the COVID shots permanently. And we sent them and hundreds of people sent them current data and published studies on the shots, how they don't prevent infection, transmission, hospitalization, DAFI injuries, the whole thing? What did they write back? We reviewed all the comments sent in. But the CDC says says the vaccines are safe and effective. Wow. So how do we get that's our big challenge. Dr. Paul, how do we get checks and balances into this public health system where nobody feels responsible at any stage, for the outcome of pushing these products, we have got to figure that out.

Dr. Paul  1:01:19  
We've got our we got our work cut out, we have to educate the population so they can fight for their own rights, for bodily integrity, and just say no to any kind of experimental jab. Folks, we have too much information. I mean, you're you're seeing it right now with his V save data. And, and then, sadly, state by state, we fight through legislation. I know you're very involved with that. And you've actually had a success in Tennessee with getting ivermectin over the counter. Good job there. To help change the laws so that the these public health officials can't just declare an emergency and do whatever they want.

Bernadette Pajer  1:01:59  
Exactly, exactly. And we're up to it. So everybody be the news, because we need to spread it. You know, just because you are awakened, aware, and you feel like everybody must see what I see. It never, you know, it still surprises me. I step outside my bubble. And I speak to somebody who is aligned with me, but on some topics they haven't heard yet, because the censorship is so strong. And sometimes we forget when we're in this bubble of good information, that most of the world is not in our good bubble. And we have to burst the bubble and get it out there. So it takes hand walking the information.

Dr. Paul  1:02:39  
Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for helping us burst the bowl Berger, always a shining light and a good example of how to do research and how to get to the real crux of the matter and the truth of the matter. So thanks again for your help with against the wind.

Bernadette Pajer  1:02:55  
Thank you, Dr. Paul. Take care.

Dr. Paul  1:03:02  
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai