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​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I am Dr. Paul your hosts we're gonna go farming today. I'm speaking to Helio farm owners Theo and Kira and their daughter, Sonia. We talk about regenerative farming orthomolecular farming, raw milk, the importance of supporting small farmers health and food freedom, and decentralizing farming as a key to future food security. We wrap up the show with an interview with yours truly myself and Didi Hoover, discussing some future projects in something we're calling kids first forever. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I have a question for you today. What are you being called to do? Francis of Assisi said, start by doing what's necessary, then do what's possible. And suddenly you're going to be doing the impossible. Do you have an inner voice, calling you to do something maybe to speak up maybe to resist? I've certainly felt that calling quite a bit the last few years, I had a mom reach out to me just today by email. And she said, I am being told to be quiet at work. She works in a hospital setting and she's seeing things going on that are just not right things that need to be changed. She's advocating for the patients and she's being told she must be quiet. And I know a lot of us have experienced this sort of pressure and censorship from our employers from the society at large human. And I just wanted to say you can be that light, you can be love. You can speak the truth. Do it with courage. Do it with love. You know, it just takes a spark to light a fire. And sometimes maybe we have to be that spark. So I call on all of us. Let's do that. Let's do what we're being called to do. Take a stand. Let's do it for our kids. Let's do it for our families. Let's do it for our nation and for our world. I'm Dr. Paul, thanks

Welcome to against the wind. I have the pleasure of introducing a family that's doing some incredible work in the farming arena. Sonia, finish you are you are the daughter of the couple that sitting with us. Correct. And you are a founder of Oregon LIBERTY NETWORK. We'll have you later. Tell us a little bit about that. And then Theo and Kira Weidman you founded Helios farms in 2012 with a vision of decentralizing the US food supply back to local farms that use no agricultural chemicals or pharmaceuticals, right? Fantastic. I know you've pioneered orthomolecular regenerative farming methods private Association farm business model to drive your vision into reality. So I'm going to be looking forward to hearing more about that. Theo, your background is pretty spectacular. You've got a degree with honors in Engineering Physics from Oregon State University, you founded a publishing company, you founded a technical writing and software localization firm, you produced a documentary film titled grid iron Gladiators, and with Kara you've built a high end recording studio business. Kara, you've boarded and train horses that was in the 80s then you were a commercial artist in the 90s. And you've always raised and butchered your own food animals studying European butchery under the tutelage of a German butcher. So there's so much for us to learn from all of you, the Helios mission, that sort of a convergence I understand the field and curious life experience and applying your farming butchery technical, scientific business, legal culinary, health sciences background, that's a mouthful to create a profitable and resilient livestock farming model. under the pen name, Theo farmer, Theo, you've written about food, health, farming and all of that. So again, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker  4:07  
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Unknown Speaker  4:09  
Very much. Pleasure to be here.

Dr. Paul  4:10  
Perfect. I'm really interested in maybe just to start with just share your backgrounds, the parts that I missed in my introduction, so that people get a better sense of who you are, and then I'll ask you a few questions.

Unknown Speaker  4:25  
Okay, I'll start I was raised on a small farm in Silverton, Oregon and and I work with farmers at that time and out in the fields driving equipment. My parents used to ask me what I was learning out there in the fields and I respond by saying, you I'm learning I don't want to be a farmer. And I think that that was a response to what I saw as far as the commercial farming there was. The farmers didn't seem to have much control over what they plan And then what they put on their fields, cetera, et cetera, and then move forward. You know, I got my degree and I went into technology. So I was a technologist in the 80s and 90s, with software localization. And then in the 80s, and 90s, also, my children had a lot of health issues. I had a son who had a brain tumor and a disabled child. And so that threw me into a look at our medical system. And I didn't, what I saw wasn't very pretty. And so by around the 2000s, I was learning about ortho molecular healing, high dose nutrients, I studied some of the things that Linus Pauling was pointing to. And so we basically we, we came at farming what Kira when had been lactose intolerant all of her life. So she, they call it lactose intolerance. And so if she had any kind of dairy product, it would create huge digestive issues. Right away. We weren't we found out that through some research, that she might be able to handle raw milk. And so we we went out to get raw milk and went to a farm that had it and we got some got a half gallon, and Kira was able to drink the whole half gallon over a couple of days with zero issues. So there were a lot of between the orthomolecular kind of exposure that I had, by the time I was in my 50s, I was realizing that the way we treated our children with all the vaccines and all the pharmaceuticals and all that stuff in the mainstream during the 80s. And 90s was a big, probably a big cause of the problems that they had. And so we started putting our minds to well, how can we do this with no pharmaceuticals? How can we do a farm with no agricultural chemicals we started, when we found out that Kira could drink raw milk, we tried to get on a list to get raw milk steadily. And in Oregon, that what turned out to be a big challenge. The farm that we got it from had a waiting list we got on their waiting list. And they would they never, we never got to the top of the waiting list. So because of my early farm background, we decided well, let's just get our own dairy cow then. And that was about 2008 or 2009. And so we got a cow. And when I had an acre, we had an acre in Corvallis, which is plenty for a cow. And so we started milking her. And then we realized that she was producing five gallons a day, which is way more than one family can drink. So we decided we would share it or sell it. And so we put a fridge on the porch. And then we found out that it was illegal at the time to advertise raw milk in Oregon. And so we we advertised for free we advertised collaborative milk, which is a people who get raw milk would know what what clattered milk is. And so we started right off the bat trying to work around the legal framework in Oregon. And then God told cows to be fruitful and multiply. So after a while, we had six cows on this acre of land in Corvallis. And that's that was actually we were out of compliance with the statutes of Oregon because if you're selling raw milk from your farm, you can only own three cows and only melt two cows. And so we did a little research and we came across the farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund back in Washington DC and they said Oh, you guys have to switch to a herd share contract. And so we we went ahead and started. We worked with them to produce a herd share contract and because we were also offering butchering animals by then we decided we're going to do livestock shares as well. And the idea of contract moving under contract law was really appealing to us. And so then, in addition to that, we were meeting all these amazing people like from the Weston A price foundation and all these folks that knew about really good food and knew the deception of the raw milk thing and all that and so we thought well, at the time I had sold my technology company, I was a consultant and it was like, Alright, why don't we just go into this big time and just do the farming full time. So we ended up moving to this 160 acre farm in young kala. And we came here with about four cows in 2012. And then we those cows now we have 60 cows, so they really do multiply when you put them on land and feed the morass. So yeah, so

Dr. Paul  10:32  
anyway, about herd of 66 Zero.

Unknown Speaker  10:35  
Yeah, 60 cows that were milking 15 Right now, because a lot of them, we raise cows with no pharmaceuticals, no vaccines, and those are really hard cows to find in organic. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  10:49  
The milking must be by machine if you have that many cows.

Unknown Speaker  10:52  
Yeah, we're milking with that we use a surge milker which Cap captures each cow's milk individually. And then we pour it right into the jars from that the surge milk or so the milk we produce is called single milk because the the name of the cow that produced it is on the jar. So

Dr. Paul  11:14  
people get very cool. Very personal. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  11:18  
it's very personal. That's part of what we want to do is reconnect people to the beauty of of the garden essentially, in the end, amazing food supply that God provides. So yeah.

Dr. Paul  11:33  
So you started with cows. Have you expanded beyond cows?

Unknown Speaker  11:37  
Yes, yeah, when we moved here, we, we bought a hog operation, because when you have cows, you have a lot of excess milk. And the traditionally, a dairy has hogs and raises hogs because the skim milk was considered a waste product. And they would use that to feed the hogs and raise the hogs. And so there's this integrated aspect to what we do. We have hogs, we have chickens, we're producing eggs, the chickens love the the their feed to be soaked in sour milk and hogs. Their their stuff is soaked in sour milk. So there's this lacto fermentation that goes on over the last decade. There's a few things that kind of developed early on, we became anti vaccine advocates because we found that we didn't need them for one thing with cows and cows are real similar to people. But also our God or Sonia, who's here had had had had her first child in Corvallis. And he was what's known as a vitamin C baby. Never didn't go to the doctor never got any vaccines.

Dr. Paul  12:53  
So it was like we should let let Sonia tell that story. Yeah. Tell us what it was like growing up with these nutty parents. You No, right. Yeah. And your your journey as as to figuring out how to live healthy and live off the land, so to speak. Yeah, so

Sonja Feintech  13:11  
I grew up in Corvallis. When I got pregnant with my first son at 21. His name is Helios, which is who the farm is named after because he kind of instigated the whole thing, like we eat healthy, and we were pretty mindful about our health. But it really took a turn when I was pregnant with him. And I actually was gifted a book, which is the Weston A price, foundation, wise traditions cookbook. And I started reading that was blowing my mind. And so we went and got the raw milk. And we started learning about vitamin C. And at first when people were like, Oh, are you gonna vaccinate your kid? I was like, Well, yeah, that's just what you do. And then I started kind of thinking being like, Well, if that's my automatic response, maybe I should look into it a little bit more. And so then we started kind of rejecting anything that had an automatic response without thought behind it, and sort of exploring all these different ways of doing things. And then like, via

Dr. Paul  14:06  
that, I want to highlight that, yeah, reject anything that you have an automatic response to. Nobody has ever said that on the show or in my entire life. Knowing what I now know, and I'm 65 You're spot on?

Sonja Feintech  14:20  
Yeah, it's a real thing. Because like, it's like, Oh, who's whose truth? Am I speaking right now? Like, is it something that comes from your parents? Or is it something that comes from the TV? And then if you actually start digging into it being like, oh, okay, like, this actually doesn't come from anywhere. And it's actually it's not truth for me. So then you have to, you know, then you end up researching and digging and whatever,

Dr. Paul  14:41  
you are so brilliant. So you just did another one, whose truth are you listening to or speaking and spouting? I get in these arguments with people I try to say the truth is singular. I mean, the truth is the truth. And then I'll have people come back and say, Yeah, but there's they have their truth. And that's what you're speaking to whose truth are you spouting? And yeah, carry on you, you're just wisdom after wisdom,

Sonja Feintech  15:06  
I have to credit my husband a little bit because he came up with the slogan, whose ideas are your ideas? And that one really, like, set it off for me. So yeah, anyways, it opened up this whole rabbit hole of things. So next thing I know, we've, you know, basically fled Corvallis to this farm in the middle of nowhere, where we're raising cows and, you know, drowning in raw milk and vitamin C and babies and, and it was it was really cool. And I was there with them for about off and on for about 10 years. And I have my second daughter there who was also home birth also unvaccinated. And it's funny, because it's kind of like you live in a, it's a canyon. So you kind of live in this bubble of reality, you're surrounded by, you know, birth and death and harvest and babies and, and all that stuff. And then my husband and I, shortly after we got married, decided to move to Portland, or, you know, access to career stuff for him and activities for the kids. And we thought, Oh, I'll be fine. You know, I've never lived in a city. My husband is from LA. So he was like, okay, you know, here we go. And I was pregnant with my third. So here we are in the city. And we're both from the farm, you know, living rurally. And we're stuck in the middle of Portland during the whole COVID thing. You know, I had my baby in my apartment building in Portland, like, I was still trying to, you know, do my thing. And, and it was pretty wild. That was a really big awakening for me. Because for me, like my, our form of protest, or our way of voting for things was just to do the things. So it's like, why I'm going to protest the pharmaceutical companies by just opting out, and I'm going to protest the vaccination schedule by opting out. But until all of this stuff was really like, at literally at my door, I realized that I needed to get a little bit more involved or I was gonna go mad. I was gonna go crazy in Portland. So I started during medical freedom protests. I actually met you at the vigil because I was on a rampage of meeting anyone and everyone that was a medical freedom leader. And so I actually I think I might have scared you a little bit because I came running up to you from behind was the guy Nice to meet you.

Dr. Paul  17:24  
But you looked familiar now I remember.

Sonja Feintech  17:27  
Yeah, like. And, yeah, sorry, through medical freedom rally in Oregon City on nading. Three years ago now. And it was super successful. And then I started working with free Oregon. So I was the political action director for free Oregon for somewhere under a year just while it was kind of getting on its feet and turning into what it is now. And I was working with Oregonians for medical freedom and children's health defense putting on a bunch of events. We did a big waterfront event with Dell big tree. I don't know if you spoke at that one. Yeah, I was there. Okay, now you were there. So for me, it was it was kind of a crazy escalation for what I'm used to, which is living on a farm and things just being kind of slow, and like you're actually dealing with real life death. But then getting into the political realm of things where you're dealing with things, you know, you're dealing with people and issues and putting on a fence and rallies and, and it was just interesting to have that balance in my life. And now I'm able to pull from my background, which is farming. But then now I have all of these connections and people I've met and leaders and people that are really important, and they have really important things to say out there that need to get out there. And I can kind of put those together into what I'm doing now.

Dr. Paul  18:49  
Thank you so much for that. So this regenerative farming that you're doing, why is it so relevant and describe it in a little more detail?

Unknown Speaker  19:00  
So that this has been developed for us? And it's basically to answer the questions. It's what had gone in 10 with food. And if we erase the last 100 150 years of agriculture, and all that interventions, like, you know, if you look at the vaccine industry, it's about interventions, right? Some kind of story, some kind of disease, and then some kind of prevention, that product that's released. And so man's interventions or God's design, and in our case, we always chose God's design and when you remove all the interventions, what happens is you are stewards of a regenerative process, the soil fertility starts regenerating, the animal health starts regenerating you actually, I would say that we're very complete li eliminating disease with the high dose nutrients and paying attention to microbiome science. So there's a

Dr. Paul  20:11  
true for your livestock as well as your own lives.

Unknown Speaker  20:13  
Yes, yeah. So like especially, yeah, but both really, but the livestock is pretty. They're disease free once you once you've quit, you know, intervening at birth and things like that with shots and their immune systems get stronger and stronger over the years over the seasons. And so

Dr. Paul  20:36  
share with our viewers because this is actually news to me. I know pediatrics, I know medicine, I don't know livestock management, what what kind of vaccination schedule would they typically be on and I, what other interventions are being done in a typical farm that you don't do?

Unknown Speaker  20:53  
So that there's one of the things that we do is we work in the private domain, which means we don't, we don't follow the state threat statutes as far as how to treat cows. But when cows are born, there's vaccine requirements. Essentially, there's diseases that are basically described, and when that disease is described, it has a product that you vaccinate your cat. So tetanus would be a simple example. You know, you give your cow a tetanus shot, if you're going to castrate it. Well, a better approach for us is to learn how to prevent tetanus because it's an aerobic disease. And so if you castrate them in a way that creates an anaerobic situation, then you see tetanus, we saw it once. And that was a big lesson on how to prevent it because we we really neglected that animal created an anaerobic wound, and then it got tetanus and died. So now it's like, okay, so it's so easy to prevent tetanus, you know, so for us, it's about, well, let's learn about the disease or learning about the microbe that they're talking about. Is it really a problem? Is it you know, so there's all these legacy vaccines, like when when a calf is born, you have to give them this, this and this? And it's like, yeah, we're what, what are those diseases about in the first place? Are they some of them marking their requirements for diseases that I think we're kind of architected or there were the, they were products of probably pesticides and chemicals that were introduced on farms, and that created an environment where that the microbes would get out of control or something, and then that would get defined as a disease, they'd come out of the product for disease, it's kind of, and then they would, you know, require everybody to do this vaccine. So there's one of those vaccines that is required, the disease was eliminated in Oregon, like in 1980, that never seen the disease. And I think it was probably a product of some kind of feed thing, pesticide thing, there's so many things that were going on that would cause a microbe to become an overgrowth in a few animals may be that and then they, they, so they create these policies, but the policies that can be re examined and maybe thrown out based on new science. So the science that our farm really goes after is microbiome science and orthomolecular science

Unknown Speaker  23:37  
and I would say one of the major differences between I mean, there's many, they're all different between us and an industrialized food supplies firm is our animals are not concentrated in that way. So they and the ground is not sterile it is it is full chock full of beneficial bacteria that are the animals are interacting with, then they're interacting with the soil. And so we just not seeing the kinds of things that you would in a really barren environment where there's you just got a concentration of animals you have to keep well or looking well with some kind of pharmaceutical product, maybe dealing with symptoms of a really sick system that are in

Sonja Feintech  24:37  
okay, I actually pulled up a shortlist of the vaccines because I was curious to I have written it down before but so it's a ibkr Bvd p 13. Don't know what these are VRSC virus leptospirosis, cholesterol. Cluster deal. I don't know what sure that is. E. coli mastitis calf diarrhea. He had diseases and then annually they do five of those every year, and then different ones prior to breeding. So it's, you know, and I don't even know what those are right? Like, that's, they're just putting those into the cows. And you can go get, you know, organic meat from the store, and it's going to be antibiotic free, and, you know, no more growth hormone and things like that, or no. But they're still getting vaccinated all those vaccines.

Dr. Paul  25:24  
Wow. I had no idea.

Unknown Speaker  25:27  
Yeah. And they're also coming out with mRNA vaccines for cattle sex, right,

Dr. Paul  25:33  
that they're requiring really has that started yet?

Unknown Speaker  25:37  
I'm not sure. Again, we're so we're, we're like, probably not the people that talk to you about what the requirements are. Yeah,

Dr. Paul  25:44  
but that, that just was like a BAM, that yeah, cannot you start eating meat that's mRNA. altered? Yeah, you're putting, you're putting those sequences in your own body.

Unknown Speaker  25:59  
Exactly. And so so when you just brought up this long list of vaccines that they are getting, we don't even know what those are. But those don't think those aren't ending up in the mill, don't take those aren't ending up in the meat. And in the fat, especially.

Unknown Speaker  26:18  
So part of part of our emphasis is, let's pay, let's figure out what God's design was in the first place, because we've lost touch with them. And a really good starting point is to look at our human knowledge of milk. And, and, and the fact that, you know, women when, what, when they're like having children, that's the first time they really get a realization that they're mammals at all, and that they produce milk. And they don't know much about milk, no one ever teaches about milk. But over the years, we've learned a lot about milk, for example, and it has a lot to do with microbiome science. So when a calf is born, it goes up to its mother's ughter, and grabs onto a T and that T is jet is dirty, nobody's washed that teat. So it's getting a sample of the microbiome, basically a mouthful of poo. And that's the microbiome of the whole herd. And then the milk is specifically designed to nourish microbes in the gut along the way. So as the cap is growing, it's nursing. And there's components in mammals milk that don't even nourish mammal cells, they nourish microbial cells. And this is all really comes real clear. If you read like the human super organism, or some of the latest microbiome science, it's about, well, these babies are born as mammal babies. And a big part of the human quest at birth, and the calf quest at birth is to collect all the microbes around them, and let them milk select which ones should be in their gut. And there's certain times in their development where certain microbes are implanted in the gut. So that same thing is true with cows and with humans. And the microbiome is very, very similar in our gut microbiome in that the so when you see a little baby at about two or three months, they start sticking everything they can in their mouth. So they're trying to sample all the microbes around them in the microbiome. And then the milk is nourishing the right microbes and ignoring the pathogenic microbes. And so they get a microbiome garden throughout their gut in as long as there's no interventions. Now, if you look, for example, at Wakefield's work, he was like, well, this vaccine is going right to the gut and destroying the microbiome. And that's kind of a summary of what his paper said, and then it causes this diarrhea and then these kids are, you know, regressing. And so your gut brain and all that all that science is really important in milk. Raw milk is what what creates that balance microbiome.

Unknown Speaker  29:18  
And I want to say that, we like to say that the land of milk and honey was not pasteurized.

Dr. Paul  29:26  
So I want to visit your farm and get some footage for our viewers of what it really looks like working on a farm. And as soon as you build a list of resources, I'll help you get it out there. We this is a real thing. It's a real movement and I consider you guys partners and let's pioneer in this. I have lots to learn from you. You can each give your closing thoughts that you would like the listener to consider.

Unknown Speaker  29:53  
All right, um, my my emphasis is that if we fix it Food System we actually can do, we're going back doing battle with the pharmaceutical system. So the first step is to fix the food system and to really understand it, to understand microbiome, the microbiome is and it's the latest science that is just suppressed sciences not not emphasized to understand that, and the multigenerational aspect of it is where health true health comes from nutrients good a balanced microbiome and, and eliminating these attitudes and things that have been. So if we fix the food system, we re localize it decentralize it. We're going to eliminate the power that pharmaceutical industry has over the over the people.

Dr. Paul  30:50  
Let food be thy health. That's right. Thanks, Kara. What are your closing thoughts? Kara?

Unknown Speaker  30:56  
My closing thoughts are all of you out there who know there's something wrong in the system, you know, deep down, it's one thing or the other, you know, there's something wrong and system, opt out of it. And use your use your strengths to seek action that you can take and skills you can get, and supporting things that you believe in and opt out of the systems that aren't working for you. And that you see aren't working for your neighbors on so this farm

Unknown Speaker  31:34  
here ask how can I help? How can I

Unknown Speaker  31:37  
ask your farm? How can I help today? And we'll tell you and we will help you.

Dr. Paul  31:43  
Fantastic opt out and ask your local farmer and Sonia finish it out for us what do you want people to remember

Sonja Feintech  31:51  
to look at everything that's going on holistically. So the full picture, we do a lot of treating the symptom, you know, we're fighting against that we're we're fighting to keep our kids in these schools we're fighting to, you know, keep our grocery shelves stocked. And, and really, you have to go a little bit farther back and look at as a whole what's broken. And the fact is that all these structures are very, very broken. And we can keep on trying to fight in that system. Or you can say, You know what, let's take a step back. And let's look at what's really important, which is human potential. It all starts with health, you know, you can we can address pharmaceutical issues all day. But why do we Why do they think we need these pharmaceuticals? Why is that such a huge industry? What are we eating? What are they telling us to eat? So it really, it all comes back to a pretty condensed idea about how to fix the broken things? And what might be the answers to some of those questions. And I think that it starts with beginning of life. So you know, babies, what the babies are eating, what the mothers are eating? Where do we get our food, and our connection to all of that. So

Dr. Paul  33:05  
beautiful. I want to thank all three of you. This has been I've got goosebumps kind of interview for me. You all are such a blessing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I can't wait to meet you in person. All right. I'm

Unknown Speaker  33:19  
looking forward to it. Thank you, Dr. Paul.

Sonja Feintech  33:21  
Thank you for having us.

Dr. Paul  33:30  
Dr. Paul, welcome to another episode. This is a unique one. I have beside me DD Hoover, who is an incredible influence in my life. She has been body worker and coach wellness coach for pediatric practice integrative pediatrics for few years now. My own personal wellness coach when I was going through all the stuff I've been going through, we'll chat a little bit more about that. And she is helping me manage this show against the wind and we'll be taking your questions as we go forward. She's the one you're interacting with. So why don't you meet the Hoover? Very close friend and so important and everything we're doing here? Today she's interviewing me, so have at it.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  34:12  
Here we go. All right. Okay, Dr. Vom, so tell me what's happening. I've heard that something's changed in your life with Oregon Medical Board, and your license.

Dr. Paul  34:25  
Big things happens. We're going to share those Can I start a little bit of history for maybe folks who haven't ya heard my story? Yep. Okay. I was raised in Africa, went to medical school, became a pediatrician. When taught residents and medical students went into private practice 13 years into private practice. The last four years I had a child who was doing perfect at age 12 months or 18 months regressed into severe autism by age two, that fourth case broke my heart. I'm still in touch with that family weekly. He's 16. Now he's still nonverbal. He hits his head. It's done. horrendous life and I knew the moment I walked in that day. It wasn't good. So, why, right? Why was this going on? Nobody was answering that question. I've been in a deep dive of research had already come to a understanding, or at least a sense that there's something we're doing that is harming these kids. I was suspicious, it was the vaccines. And it became clear that they were related, as I heard more and more and more stories. So you'll have these parents tell you, my kid got a shot, got a vaccine, and the next day I lost my kit. And you hear that once? That's Oh, that's interesting. What

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  35:37  
a sad by losing their their kid, you mean, they're just

Dr. Paul  35:41  
gone, right? They're not dead. But there's nobody home, right? You go from a smiling, active, interacting talking child, to somebody who's spinning in circles hitting their head, playing by themselves and can't interact or make eye contact. It's devastating. So that's a case of severe autism, hundreds of those stories were rolling in for me. That's when I went to my partners. And I said, I can't do business. As usual. I know, I can't do a hepatitis B vaccine for a newborn who doesn't need it. It doesn't make sense. That vaccine has so much aluminum. And there's zero need for it for those moms who are known to be happy, negative anyway, as one example. So I started integrating pediatrics, we had a different vaccine schedule. Let's fast forward a number of years. Now it's becoming real clear. As more and more families are joining in, I'm having more and more families who are choosing not to vaccinate. So how can you allow that Doc? Right? Well, we give informed consent. So if you came to me and you said, we have autism in our family, we have story after story of kids getting shots and going into severe autism, we don't want to vaccinate our kids anymore. I would honor that. That's informed consent, the foundation of our office. So then I wrote the vaccine friendly plan. It was published in 2016. It was just a different way of doing things. There's the CDC schedule. There's other ways of doing things. It wasn't like mine was the only book there's the vaccine book Dr. Sears wrote, which gave some other ideas. And that seemed to start the process that starts approaching your question, right. So the medical board starts coming with various complaints and complaints and complaints. And some of you been watching the show know that. It's come to a head. So in January of 2019, I got a letter saying prove that the vaccine friendly plan is as safe as the CDC schedule. I remember when that letter going, This is ridiculous. How can you prove it? The CDC can't prove that what they're doing is any better than what they did the year before, or any better than doing nothing? Or it's just they just do. Somebody gave me the idea, do a quality assurance analysis of your data. Brilliant. So we hired an expert to come in independent thinker, this guy's he came in says, you know, I'm a nerd. And I just go with the data. I don't know what we're going to find this. And I don't know either. I was a little suspicious. I knew what he'd find. But I really didn't know. First day comes up.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:09  
Are you nervous? Slightly?

Dr. Paul  38:12  
I kind of knew, but you just don't know. Right? Right. And the point is, if we had found out that kids who were following the vaccine friendly plan, we're in danger. I needed to know that. Or if they're benefiting from it, that'd be important information as well. When it comes out of the office, the first day of diving into the data says, I know I'm not supposed to notice the data. I'm just gathering it. But Paul, this is incredible. Your unvaccinated patients just don't get sick. Those were his exact words. And he went on and spent a week got all the data collected at all. We published it in what became the real powerful real world data Vax on vac study, with Jack Lyons Wheeler that was ultimately retracted.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  38:52  
Thankfully, just because it retracted.

Dr. Paul  38:56  
One complaint, who said that it's invalid, he hypothesized that people who don't vaccinate, they don't go to health care visits, they don't seek medical care. So of course, your data is going to show that the unvaccinated don't have much going on because they never see doctors anyway. It's actually theoretically a very good point. So we had already looked at it, and we actually addressed it in the first article, but a second article was just published that did a deep dive into that question, and found that our Unvanquished patients had more well child visits than their vaccine counterparts. So completely put to rest that major complaint that that person had made. So we now in addition to that this new publication that Jack Lyons Wheeler and Russell Blaylock did, Russell Blaylock pediatric neurologists written a lot extensively was let's look at what happens when patients stop vaccinating and compare them to those who continue vaccinating out. If you had proposed that question to me, my theory would have been those who stopped vaccinating. They're seeing a problem. Those who continue vaccinating have healthy kids are not worried about it. So I would have thought it would have shown that those who stopped vaccinating have more damaged kids more sick kids more issues, they found the exact opposite. Those who stopped vaccinating at whatever point they stopped, compared to those who continue vaccinating. It was like four or five times as many health problems for those who continue vaccinating.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  40:33  
Well, that makes sense to me. If you think about it, it does, yes. Because if you're doing something that's not good for you, or you could have a reaction to and you stop it, then you're not going to have a reaction. If you keep vaccinating, then there's a possibility of having a reaction.

Dr. Paul  40:48  
You're absolutely right. In fact, that is why we would advise in our practice, that if you're seeing something of concern, just stop, don't keep pounding them with something that might be causing a problem. So we think a lot of like, now, let's fast forward to December of 2020. They take my license on an emergency basis, because I'm a threat to public health. This was five days after my article was just published, which was a strange coincidence, to sequences to coincidence, six months later, they gave it back because they realized they had taken it without.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  41:25  
I remember that a friend of yours suggested that if it was illegal, then Why could they do it?

Dr. Paul  41:30  
Yeah, that friend happens to be sitting right here. Anyway, that was a really good idea. By the way. You have good ideas. Thank you. Sometimes, Why hang on to this one. All right. So let's just fast forward. I've had 30 Plus letters from the board requesting various things, no patient complaints, but complaint complaint letters, they call them since I lost my license. That's about one a month or no more. It's it's just been an incredible. They have stacked up this list of complaints. And unsubstantiated that really, I couldn't refute them. We could fight them. And we have. But what was coming down the pike was a three week hearing with the Oregon Medical Board, which for can you

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  42:21  
explain what what a hearing is as opposed to a trial?

Dr. Paul  42:25  
Yes, a trial, especially at trial by jury, then you are given that opportunity to have your peers the jury assess the validity of the complaints and the information of both sides. And that should be a fair way. It's actually an a wonderful thing we have in our country, not that all trials are end up fair, but at least you have a shot. When it's just in front of a judge, if it was a neutral judge, and the judges rulings were binding. There's possibility you could get a fair trial there as well. What happens in Oregon is is an Oregon State appointed judge, you're going up against the Oregon State Medical Board. On top of that, the judge just makes recommendations. So imagine, we've got these 30 letters of complaint six different formal complaints, things as minut as well, you ordered MMR titers on a patient 10 years ago, and the mumps was not active. So you should have had that patient get the mumps vaccine. Well, they didn't want it. But I should have made it happen. And I didn't. So that's a violation. And you could get fined violation of what standard of care. This is what medical boards use nowadays are actually going after you for misinformation and disinformation. But we don't even need to go there with mine. It was simply this sort of standard of care notion. And what was odd about this one for me was really it all boiled down to informed consent. The Oregon Medical Board was challenging my right to provide informed consent. I was

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  44:01  
supposed to be there just because I think most people understand what informed consent means. But just clarifying that informed consent means you're telling somebody correct, like informed consent in regards to a vaccination, is you explaining what that vaccine is what it is for everything about it, correct? Yes. And then that means the parent then has the right to choose because they've been given informed consent. Is that

Dr. Paul  44:29  
right? Yeah, you should be given the pros, the cons and the alternatives. So in the case of a vaccine, you should have the option to take it or not take it. That's informed consent. If there's no option, and this is what's happening in all pediatric practices around the country, almost all you have to take the CDC schedule or there's the door. Right, they're calling that informed consent because I'm going to hand you this little thing called vizzes Vaccine Information Sheet put out by the CDC, that kind of touches very minimally on problems with vaccines, but oh, look at all these diseases that we're going to save you from. Now you've been informed, the nurse will be in with your vaccine. If you don't want it well then out. That's not informed consent. That's coercion. It's, it's what's going on in this country? Right? Yep. So we provide informed consent. And that's apparently not okay.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  45:26  
Right. So sorry, you're gonna fight them.

Dr. Paul  45:30  
So you ask tough questions. I am in this till I die as far as fighting for kids freedom, fighting for informed consent, and doing what's right. You know, when you know what's right, and you turn your back to that? I can't do that. So I wanted to fight all the way. Right. There's this three week hearing, that's a kangaroo court that is every single attorney I've consulted, said yes, you will lose. And as you lose, you will pay for your attorneys fees, their attorneys fees, and the fines and the way the board had stacked up all these MMR little things, almost 100 of those and the fine could be in the millions, certainly up to a million and all their fees. And it when every expert I talked to says, Paul, I don't What are you doing? Right? And I even had a very prominent attorney from back east say, well, we just had a win in Maine, we you should fight it. So I looked into it, that that doctor who won in Maine had a jury trial, right? Oh, if we had a jury trial, let's go right. So rather not, you're done. So rather than fight that, we have just this is the breaking news you've been trying to get to. Sorry, it took so long. I just wanted people to have the history. So with a lot of thought and deliberation, and that still doesn't feel right, that I had to sign this thing to let it go away. But my attorney was able to negotiate them writing off everything. They're dropping everything except they get to file because it's the law. This was so annoying. They get to file all their charges anyway, with the national data bank. So people who go to the national data bank will think, oh, wow, this guy's terrible, because they use all these derogatory terms about you, that have not been proven right. And I didn't get my day in court. But it wouldn't have mattered how they had my day in court, the system is just rigged in that way. So I'm continuing to fight in this way. I'm fighting the board by suing them individually. And I'm told that won't go well. But we can appeal. And more importantly, we have this show, right? We have a new program that I'm starting called Kids First forever, with somebody very near and dear to me. Oh, that's, you know, yeah. So that's going to be a way that we can educate, we can inform, we can teach, we can. So you're not going to have a license, but I won't be licensed. So I will not be diagnosing and treating in Oregon in Oregon. I currently have a license in Washington and Hawaii and I may choose to get licensed in other states, or try to. It's very difficult, I believe I'm told that

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:15  
there's better ways to do what you want to do, right? Absolutely. So what are you gonna do?

Dr. Paul  48:19  
Do what I'm supposed to do? Okay, well, when

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:21  
do you no longer have a license?

Dr. Paul  48:23  
That will be on December 5? This year? So in about five weeks? Okay. Six weeks, seven weeks?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:29  
Okay. Five? Are you excited?

Dr. Paul  48:32  
Actually, I am. So I have to tell you. If it weren't for this woman here, I would be a mess. You have this ability to coach in in a such? I don't know how to put it. You never told me what to

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:52  
do. I guess it's not up to a coach to tell you what is what

Dr. Paul  48:54  
do you want to do? Well, I don't know. What do you want to do? I don't know. And you will have you thought about this. And it just is such a such an amazing process. And I've watched you coach teenagers who are anxious, depressed, going, suicidal going through, and I've watched them just blossom. So I thought, wow, what better than pairing up with somebody with that skill set? So I'm excited about kids first forever. I'd be kind of curious to ask you now. What's your vision for kids first forever? And what's yours? What led you to want to do this?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  49:34  
Well, as you know, and one thing I want to say about coaching is that you are coachable. There are times when I'm when I'm coaching whether it's kids or parents and you have to work to make the changes and to see things and for you. I'm going to tell on you now. Oh my god years ago, you had such a big huge ego and just thought you knew every Thinking. And you would talk to people that way. And because you did, you did know what was right and wrong for these people's kids and your mind, you knew those things. But I think sometimes, like I learned with you and you learned through is that we all have the soul, there's four parts to us, which is what kids first forever is about. And that is your spiritual connection. And I think that's one of the most important physical, mental and emotional, everything that you went through with, with the state. And now with your practice, because I know that's another question you should probably answer is people want to know, I mean, integrated pediatrics is, it's amazing. It's one of the very, very few types of this pediatric clinic where parents get informed consent. I know, it's one of the only ones in Oregon and very, very few across the world. So I know that you starting that baby and having that that it was important to you to find something to be able to continue to do that, and is working so closely together. And in the same office, seeing what my work represented and working with these kids from birth up that it helped you to see, maybe your soul kind of got stuffed a little bit. And so you woke up. And I don't, I don't know if I'm supposed to talk to the camera or not. But for those of you that are out there, the difference is and the work that Dr. Pol put forth, is so powerful, and was so needed to be able to help so many people, he's done it through this show, he still continues to do it with his patients, and everybody around you. And being able to come to that place has been I have to tell you, it's been an incredible thing to watch and to see. And to know that I helped you to lie No. So kids first forever is about those four areas. And I had a very rough childhood, and a lot of things that that I that I struggled through, I had a rough time as a teenager and coming into my own and finally finding my passion, which was to work to help people prevent pain. And I started off when I first started going to body workers started with pregnancy and infinite work. And then all of a sudden, I started to notice, especially about 1015 years ago, people were becoming addicted to pain medications. And some people wanted massage to help with the pain, but it wasn't preventing it. It was dealing with it. It was band aids and things to help get through pain. And I was like, I want to work on the side of preventing pain. And pain isn't just physical. It's emotional. It's spiritual. It's, it's mental. And there's so many mental health issues and watching what people were going through my own family, my own sister, losing her battle with mental health and drug addiction. So I want to prevent it. So I thought, Oh, I prayed for a pediatrician. About seven years ago, God handed me one to work with to work in your practice to help kids. And I we started with kids with scoliosis, and some older kids and wellness coaching and all that working with sports. These kids already had pain. I'm like, What the heck, they're having pain. You I was working on five year olds with migraines, what is going on? So came into the clinic started working with you with newborns. And it was like, Oh, my goodness,

Dr. Paul  53:17  
you stole my title to I was the baby whisperer. Folks, there is no better baby whisperer than this one when you get a baby in your hands, and they just melt. And I thought it was magic, because I didn't realize you were working. Right.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  53:30  
But that's where we start. Is it birth? Birth can be traumatic. Yeah. So starting then, and raising kids in this healthy way. That was my passion. I wanted to prevent what happened to me as a child from happening to other kids. So I just came up with kids first forever. And you were you're living it and doing it too. So we decided to join forces.

Dr. Paul  53:53  
And I think we'll be a pretty strong team. I have some medical background, you have this wisdom and ability to touch the soul even plus the bodywork talent and skill and ability. What we've been able to do already is incredible. And now we're going to bring it to the world. So this is pretty exciting.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  54:11  
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. So we have a speaking event coming up. You have a speaking event coming up and I know that we speak together but so I want to ask you when you're up in front of these huge audiences and talking to people I know some people will call you that you're an anti Vaxxer and you have a vaccine friendly plan book Correct? Correct. And someone asked me one time so now we're gonna switch to some of the questions that I get

Dr. Paul  54:38  
before we go to the questions okay, brought up integrated pediatrics and some of the viewers are going to be my patients from integrated pediatrics and most already know that, you know, I'm retiring on December 5, actually, the last day of November is my last day of seeing patients. The beauty is the incredible blessing. Is that the nurse prac petitioners who work here are all staying, a couple of them have stepped up to say we're going to keep it going, we're going to essentially purchase the essential elements of this practice. So we just stay the same place the same team, and no one's been with you. They beat me from the start. And you know what's amazing. So I've been seeing a lot of patients, I opened up my schedule these last two months, just hey, come see me with any kind of acute problem. I don't care what it is, you want to come see me one last time. So I'm seeing, you know, 1015 20 patients a day and every single one is staying with integrated pediatrics because they love

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  55:34  
but it's not integrated pediatrics, it is not.

Dr. Paul  55:37  
Sorry, good clarification. We are closing integrated pediatrics. It's changing its name to Northwest pediatric integrative medicine. But it's the same team. It's the same group, and they provide informed consent. They're going to vaccinate those who want to be vaccinated. If you want the CDC schedule, you can have it. But you can also do now and if that's what you really feel compelled to do. There's choice, right? Parent's choice informed consent, ethical medicine. So that is a huge blessing and a huge weight off my shoulders. When I was struggling. And you remember, I'm losing everything. I'm losing my license, I'm losing my practice, like what's going to happen? It's just going to fall apart. And it's all coming together as if it were in some higher power plan or something. Hmm, maybe? Yeah. All right. I interrupted.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  56:24  
So what was I saying? Forgetting to? So no, so some of the questions like what you're going to be doing, you're still you're able to do research. Now you're still able to do a lot of things and talk because it's free speech. You're not diagnosing or treating or anything like that. But a big part of that I know when you're talking is that some people have a difficult time with you because they think you're just an anti Vaxxer. And that's just vaccines. So what do you say to those people that think you're an anti Vaxxer?

Dr. Paul  56:59  
So a lot of parents who've had a, they were vaccinating according to what their doctor said, most anti Vax parents were former fully Vax, Zen ating parents, they had an injury. And then nobody would listen to him. Right. And so being shunned and shift shifted to the side, they go to the truth of what happened. And the truth is vaccine for them caused injury. And why would you go and risk another injury to another child or continue to potentially injure the child who's injured. So it's just a derogatory label for somebody who's actually vaccine risk aware, right. And so I like to use that term rather than anti Vax, I would be completely all in on vaccines, if you had a safe vaccine that had been properly tested with true placebo, and you looked at all health outcomes, that has never been done for a single vaccine on the planet. And they've certainly never looked at the full schedule. So as the CDC added vaccine after vaccine after vaccine, the childhood schedule now if you follow the whole thing through AJ teen, it's over 70 different vaccines given and half of them are in the first two years of life while your immune system is trying to process self and non self. And it's insane, right? So I'm anti the current vaccine schedule. And I'm anti the current vaccines, because they have not been properly tested. Right. But if we had a very deadly disease, and we did the proper sort of development, and safety testing, I'm all in, you shouldn't have to coerce people to get a vaccine. I mean, if you've got a real threat, and you've got a really great product, people are going to line up,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  58:49  
right? Well, you're not going to have the response. So you do want to know what I say instead of anti bad want to know, what do you say ProHealth? All right, I'm pro making the choices that are best for my child. And all of us, including me, always did not always make the best choices. But the more information that's out there, and the more that we see, then yeah, we have to make those choices based on health. So that brings us to one popular question that I'm seeing all the time. It's slowing down a little bit, but that is polio. People are saying that Polio is back and they want to vaccinate their children for this but you somewhere along the line, someone said that you don't need to you said that you you didn't need to.

Dr. Paul  59:33  
So until I lose my license, I could be accused of giving medical information. So I have to be a little careful about right. You know, how I educate

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  59:44  
now what I what I want to know is tell me about like why is there fear right now the New York thing? Yeah.

Dr. Paul  59:51  
So they found through PCR testing of sewage, some poliovirus have the vaccine strain. So in parts of the world, they still do an oral live virus so it can stay in your system. So if you're over in India, Pakistan, who knows where they're still doing a live oral polio vaccine, you traveled in New York, you use the flush toilet and flush it into the sewer. They test it. Oh, we've got polio in New York. Alarm alarm. Right, right. Well, I think you could probably identify any virus in the world in a sewer. Honestly, using PCR techniques, the the real issue is, what percentage of New Yorkers given the fact that we have flush toilets, and we hand wash before we eat, right? I mean, come on, the risk is is as close to zero as it gets. Right. So there's just no risk. So even though that vaccine is not that dangerous in my mind, right? There's also

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:00:51  
part of it with just vaccines in general, it's like you said, if there's some deadly thing going around, and there's a safe way to prevent it, and who's going to be effective, then why wouldn't you write? So I think that we should go to the CDC, and tell them to start making vaccine safer.

Dr. Paul  1:01:11  
I think that would be a great idea. Oh, have you go tell him and let me know how it goes.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:01:16  
Okay. Thanks for watching.

Dr. Paul  1:01:20  
D thank you for interviewing me today. Thanks for letting me this was really good. We should do this more often. Okay. Those of you have been watching this show. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Don't forget to go to against the wind. We have growing resources available for you there. And then there's also kids first forever, kids first, the number four ever.com, where we will also be providing the ability to get coaching and other information.

Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai