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​Dr. Paul  0:05  
Dr. Paul, welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. This week I'm talking to Dr. Tina Moore. She is a fierce advocate for health autonomy. She has a podcast the Dr. Tina show, check it out. We're discussing today, metabolic health. Only 6% of US adults are metabolically healthy. She helps us understand how this is related to obesity to maternal health issues. And really huge impact to your resilience and health and metabolic health is building muscle. She covers it beautifully. The last part of this show, I'm talking to Scott Miller, man, this is just it gives me goosebumps, just feeling the energy and the the what he's gone through. He's going to share with you his experience with medical board in Washington State. They yanked his license after a week long hearing. And it sounds just horrendous. You've got to hear for yourself. This guy's a hero, he needs our support. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. You know, I touched on gratitude a bit last week, but that was the stone I picked up this day. And I am so grateful for so many things. I've felt at times like I'm walking through fire. And sometimes it felt lonely and isolated. But you all have been there all the way. I have such gratitude for that I have dear friends, colleagues, people who have stood with me beside me and I haven't felt alone at all. And of course, we all know the Almighty, that light that love that's always with us no matter where we are. How can you not be grateful for that it doesn't matter what we're going through. I have a roof over my head and food in my belly when I want it. And I'm grateful also for actually all the hardship I've gone through. It has transformed my life. It has humbled me. I was an egotistical, crazy doctor, right who who woulda thought he was all that. It's shocking to think somehow how I had sort of just gotten stuck in that. And it was everything that's happened that was able to break through and allow me to just feel and be and since you since others be a part of so grateful for life grateful for you grateful for this journey. And you know, no matter what this world might feel like it's doing or spinning out of control. It's not we've got this and together amazing things are gonna happen. Thank you

Welcome Dr. Tina Moore to against the wind doctors in science under fire. It's privileged to have you on the show.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  3:06  
Oh, I'm so excited to be here. It's an honor. Dr. Paul, thank you.

Dr. Paul  3:10  
You are an expert in holistic regenerative medicine, resilient metabolic health. You're a podcaster host, author, speaker, kettlebell devotee and a mom. I've done a fair bit of CrossFit myself where I've had some, some level of kettlebell work. I know you're a fierce advocate for health, autonomy and personal responsibility. So at the end of the show, we're definitely gonna give folks a way to get in touch with you and your show. Help us understand who you are a little bit better, just because I'm also meeting you for the first time here. And it's it's a real privilege to have you on the show,

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  3:50  
sir. Well, I am so honored to be here. You are such a fierce warrior. And you have really, I've only gotten a glimmer of what you've experienced over the past few years. And so I just want to honor you because you've been you've been a fierce advocate for truth. I am a chiropractor. I'm a naturopathic doctor in Oregon. I closed my practice, actually, a couple years back. Oddly, I knew something was coming. I didn't know what I just had this overwhelming feeling that my ability to use my voice would be compromised. And if I had a practice intact, there would be a problem there. Interestingly, when this all started, like my following grew very quickly, and it was because I was trying to hold the line on the truth and dismantle some of the nonsense that I felt was coming through. And I just I really thought my profession of naturopathic medicine would step up to save the day. I figured it was our time to shine when the pandemic started and was quickly they tried to silence me themselves very quickly. It's just been a really weird, interesting journey. And I had the honor of speaking at the Children's Health defense event last weekend with your call like general Dr. Jennifer Margulies, and it was such an honor to be there. And to be in a room of other folks who were open to learning open to hearing new truths, intelligence, and just freedom and truth seekers themselves. And so that's kind of how I ended up here on your show. I think roundabout I got

Dr. Paul  5:21  
absolutely I a lot of rave reviews of your talk, and you know, your message. And that's why I wanted to give you a broader platform to get your message out. So it's really a privilege to have you on the show. Yeah, the naturopathic community, you know, Oregon has a naturopathic college there aren't that many in the country. And I thought for sure, as I have many friends who are naturopaths, that your profession, you guys were going to be the shining light. And they something happened and they they want to somehow I think the politics of trying to be accepted by insurances and all of that played into decisions that basically sold out to Pharma. And it was shocking to me.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  6:06  
It's been really interesting. Yeah, I'm on the board, the association board. And I can't say too much. But I it's been just really interesting. The the political, political alignments and strategies, I understand where they're coming from. We're, we're witch hunted in general as a profession. And so, you know, coming out with a strong stance or opposing the narrative, I see could be troublesome. But, again, I speak as my own autonomous person here. And you know, I've had my own struggles with viral diseases. I actually almost got taken out by cytomegalovirus when I was 19. And it was a really interesting journey, because that virus doesn't normally hit people who are not immunocompromised. And so that derailed me in college, I ended up with sort of a long, long hauler syndrome, as they call it now. But you know, what you and I know it as post viral syndrome. That lasted me about 10 years, which led me into naturopathic school in the first place. So when this virus hit, I was like, huh, I don't think we're getting the full picture here. I'm not a virologist, and I'm not an immunologist. But I understand both well enough to know that something was awry with the messaging we were receiving. So

Dr. Paul  7:21  
for sure. So one of the strengths that I heard about you was this concept of metabolic health. What is the status of our metabolic health here in the United States,

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  7:35  
it's pretty atrocious. And for those who don't know what that term means, it's simply our ability to take in nutrients and process them appropriately in a positive manner in our body. But humans have definitely gotten off course, there's a lot of reasons we could blame. I, I blame big food, first and foremost, and the adulteration of our nutrients and our what they call food, which is basically a chemical shitstorm in a package. A few

Dr. Paul  8:04  
highly processed food, like things that our people are told to eat. Yeah, also, you know, I being an integrative medicine now for a couple decades, I became aware of the same problem, nutrient deficiencies. And some of what I've read is the soil has become so depleted because of the farming practices, mass production. Is that part of it, too?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  8:27  
I think it's all of it. I think we've got a poor nutrient supply. I think we've got a lot of chemicals that are being passed as food. I think we've got agendas to hit that bliss point of, you know, sugar, sweets, and the Salt, Sugar Fat ratios being just right to get people that dopamine hit. If they are eating real food that's grown out of the soil, it's nutrient depleted, our animals are being commercially raised in somewhat horrific ways. I mean, it's all a big mess. And it's led to some pretty poor outcomes with Americans in their metabolic health. The last study I saw that just came out and I don't have the source, I'm sorry, I can find it for you for the show notes was that the study ended in 2018. And just six just over 6% of US adults had optimal cardio metabolic health. And a study that came out in 2019 showed that just 12% did. So I can't imagine with lockdowns, you probably know the stats better than I do of what's happened, especially for children with rates of diabetes and obesity since lockdowns, but that I'm sure all of those rates have increased significantly. You know, one in three US adults over one and three is considered obese, and that's a BMI of 30 or higher and I know BMI is kind of a nonsense marker, but it's it's a gauge right? And we don't even I don't even know the stats will be from looking at some different National Diabetes Association. stats, it's basically around. If my math is right 80 Some percent of Americans are either obese or overweight in that category, which doesn't always mean poor metabolic health, but generally it will lead to poor metabolic health. And you can be thin also and have poor metabolic health, it's a matter. It comes down to, in my opinion, muscle mass as the driving factor of who is going to be metabolically sound or not. And so we're sitting at, you know, what is it like one in four, one in five children now are considered obese? We have a real problem on our hands.

Dr. Paul  10:34  
Yeah, we do. And I think when we mentioned diabetes, we should distinguish type one diabetes from the type two, which is more of the metabolic one, right?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  10:44  
Absolutely. And the statistics coming even out of China early on, which I'm sure you saw as well, showing that those who were diabetic were getting more fiercely impacted by COVID was what queued my attention. And this made sense to me, because that's how it is with all infections. Really, if you are in poor metabolic health, you're going to have a harder time with an acute infectious agent, you're going to have a harder time with sort of chronic infectious situation. So like I my business was regenerative medicine, I did injections on people's joints. And I would not inject a diabetic without a really, really strong informed consent and other you know, mitigating other factors that I could because a they didn't heal well. And B, they were at much higher risk for infection that I could introduce into that joint. So I already knew this information. And I took to the airwaves and tried to help people and warn people and I was met with a massive amount of vitriol and pushback, and censorship and attacks. But like I said, even from my own profession, which was so surprising to me, because I thought, I'm trying to educate people on how to make themselves more resilient, and robust. And I'm being silenced, which made me say, hmm,

Dr. Paul  11:55  
yeah, I want to come back to how they censored you and what they were doing to you. Because this is going on so much in our country, and people are not aware of it, they need to hear these stories. But back to that metabolic health point and diabetics being at higher risk for infection. And if you're not in an optimal metabolic state, can you maybe in layman's terms for our audience, explain how that happens or why?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  12:24  
Sure. So your metabolism, you know, our friend, our mutual friend, Mike muscle, describes it as two sides of the same coin, right? metabolic disease and metabolic dysfunction and your immune system are two sides of the same coin. And if your metabolic health is unsound, your immune system won't function function optimally. So the first phase of your immune system, the signaling between, you know, part one and part two is just to keep it simple for folks, you've got your initial reaction of your immune system, and then there's a communication system that sends a signal to the second phase to kick in, which is where more of our memory lives in our immune system. And none of that works or orchestrates correctly, for even the memory part of it works if there is a lot of metabolic disease, which leads to a lot of inflammation. It's a big mess. And, and we could go you know, it leads to cardiovascular issues, and pretty much every chronic degenerative illness that we know in adults, and that we're also seeing in children, which I'm sure you know better than I is due to, in my opinion, at the root cause of metabolic dysfunction. And so, we also had studies on the influenza, especially around 2019, we had studies coming out showing that those who were obese and or diabetic and or frail and or malnourished, were sitting in a situation where not only did they not deal with influenza as well, they had a much harder time but they actually became more infectious. They are who is known as the Super spreaders. They are the folks that actually carry more viral titers in their bodies because their body is sort of allowing it if you will, because their immune system isn't working optimally. So they're building up huge viral titers, they're spewing out more Viron. So they are put in that super spreader category. This group is also the same group who doesn't respond well to vaccinations so they don't seem to convert well, meaning they don't have a robust immune response as we would like to a vaccine. So I was trying to share this information out saying, Hey, guys, the solution is not necessarily to lock down forever and mask up like we have to address this piece or this won't ever stop. This will continue even if they bring in a vaccine, and I'm not an an anti Vaxxer by any means. But I knew early on that this probably wasn't going to work, especially when it was launched. And it was a leaky vaccine. So I was like, okay, like I kept trying to ring the bell sharing objective data, and getting, you know, a lot of pushback for that. So, and now we're seeing the studies with COVID that similarly, those who have a larger waist circumference are not responding as well, they're not mounting as strong of an antibody response to the vaccine. Those who are severely obese one study I just came across was showing that not only do they not make neutralizing antibodies to the virus itself, but they actually make auto antibodies, non neutralizing auto antibodies. So the virus itself due to the spike protein automatically induces an autoimmune state. That would be it even says in the study that we need to consider this with a vaccine as well, because the vaccine induces, you know, Spike protein synthesis. So, I mean, these are real problems and the public health divisions, nobody was nobody was trying to help these people. And I have been adamantly beating this drum trying to help these folks, because this, to me is how this persists. This is why I believe so many people have died unnecessarily. Have metabolic disease can be turned around pretty quickly.

Dr. Paul  15:59  
How let's segue right into that, because that fascinates me, I always like to give our viewers how to, I mean, yeah, we can when we can, because our knowledge is power here. And really, you we don't need the pharmaceutical industry, we need to take our power back. And I think that's what you do with your show as well. But give our viewers a taste of what can they do? Let's say I'm overweight, and I'm worried. You know, what, what can I do?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  16:29  
And even again, folks that are too thin, that don't have any muscle mass, those folks are actually at a higher risk for death. So this is everyone, right? This is pretty much every human. I think building muscle is probably the fastest and most efficient way to write the ship. Because for a lot of reasons.

Dr. Paul  16:47  
That's like I intuitively that makes sense. But do explain why.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  16:54  
So muscle isn't endocrine system has its own sort of endocrine abilities itself, there's, we could get into the you know, deep dive into it. But the most simplistic terms is the way I think of it as we need to stop up some of that extra blood glucose that's swirling around in these folks systems, that's at the end of the day, when they have poor metabolic health. That's what's going on. So when you build muscle, you not only build more mitochondria, which you improve your mitochondrial function, which is huge, a huge part of this equation. But number two, you increase the receptors to sop up that glucose. So you're literally creating a sponge to not only stop up the glucose, but that helps the muscle build strength training in and of itself is just such a miraculous solution to me, because you are managing and dealing with the metabolic dysfunctions head on directly, like your body's response to building muscle is to it wants the glucose, it's like, hey, send it over here. We'll use it. Number two, you so everything else sort of falls into place. So when you strength train, you said you do some CrossFit? What do you do you want to hydrate? Don't you? You drink adequate water? You probably you probably sleep better and go to bed on time because you just wore yourself out like we all should we should. We're we're mammals, we're supposed to expend energy, you probably feed yourself better, with better, better nutritional choices. Because you know, you work so hard for that muscle way.

Dr. Paul  18:18  
You know, you point some real truth there. Those of us who do exercise, when you know you're going to have to go exercise, you pay a little more attention to what you're eating because exercise at an intense level hurts a lot more when you've eaten poorly.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  18:32  
Yeah, yes. Yeah. So all the other things we need people to do for good health sort of fall into place when your strength training. Another reason I love strength training is because it's about strength gain, not weight loss. I know I talk a lot about adiposity. But I'm not that concerned about the fat on people, I'm concerned about the state of their fat, how that fats behaving. And that fat behaves a lot better and goes away a lot faster when you have muscle to burn it. So building muscle and focusing on strength gain is such a better mindset to be in than it is to like, oh my gosh, I have to lose weight that which is a daunting, ominous task. For a lot of people I understand. It's nuance. So building strength is a fun goal. It's something that we can all do. And we can all and it's not a comparison. It's not who gets there faster, who's stronger. It's where are you personally, and it doesn't incredible. It has an incredible impact on your mindset, right at the end of the day, you're you. You just did something hard and doing hard things makes you a more robust person to handle all of the onslaughts of stress that come at us. Shoot, I lift two to three days a week for maybe my action besides warmup and cooldown, maybe 3040 minutes of actual strength training, so it's not late. It's not a lot of time that you have to commit. And I think it's a really great way to get the ball moving.

Dr. Paul  19:49  
Remind, remind us how COVID has specifically been challenging to metabolic health.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  19:58  
Well work for One we all got locked down and everybody quit moving, especially in Oregon, you know, you're in Oregon too. I know. And it's, they closed the gyms and so a lot of people have gained a lot. I mean, obesity rates have gone up, diabetes rates have gone up, it's pretty bad. I think the average American said they have gained like 24 to 29 pounds, I believe it was, that's enough to put you over the edge into metabolic dysfunction. Really, the easiest way to check metabolic dysfunction of really the kind of the quick and dirty that I did in my practice is my question. One was, Are you strength training regularly? If they told me no, that was one, check. Number two was waist circumference pretty specific. And lots and lots of studies, waist circumference across the globe has shown risk for type two diabetes. And so the red zone where the absolute cut off is 40 inches for a man measured at his belly button and 35 inches for a woman which is about two finger breaths above the belly button, which should be the smallest part of the waist, which I know it's not once we start to gain weight that can change. But that's where you want to measure. Those are not a lot of humans are fitting into that anymore. And this was again across the globe looking at different ethnicities as well. And then the third one was I would take their blood pressure. And if their blood pressure was slightly elevated, there was a pretty good chance that they had some metabolic dysfunction. And so I would immediately work them up for metabolic disease. And that was just you know, add in a few lab values. And the international standards for diagnosing metabolic disease are pretty simple. And any doctor can do it. And in fact, it's the same, it's just lipid, you're looking at lipids, you're looking at waist circumference, and you're looking at blood pressure. That's it right. And if three out of five of these factors are positive, then you have metabolic disease. And so that is not great, we were probably sitting in a pretty bad category going into COVID COVID. itself. Such it's a pro inflammatory, it's a it's a cardiovascular disease at its core, and it likes to light you on fire. And once that fire starts, it's very hard to put out. And that's why people go to the hospital and end up having bad outcomes. Because once uh, once the cytokine storm is on, it's, you know, it's very, you know, it's hard to mitigate that. So folks were walking into COVID, not knowing that they had metabolic dysfunction, even those who, like my husband was one of them, he had no idea he he's, for all intents and purposes looks like a pretty lean fit guy. And I was like, hey, guess what, you have metabolic disease when I met him, so, you know, we had to clean that up. But he had a pretty hard time with COVID. Because it does start to you know, and it also causes high blood pressure. And high blood pressure is one of the indicators for folks who are going to have a harder time with COVID. For sure. Folks who have high blood pressure about rough time.

Dr. Paul  22:44  
Yeah, I've definitely read that as a risk factor along with the obesity and the diabetes. Why do you think high blood pressure is such a risk factor? And what's the best way to help someone who's been diagnosed with high blood pressure? I get it, we've got to get into the gym, we've got to build some muscle. But beyond that, what what should people be doing.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  23:04  
So the high blood pressure is actually just a direct result of the metabolic dysfunction. That's it's just a symptom of metabolic dysfunction. And when you clean up the metabolic dysfunction, the high blood pressure goes away. And that's how I've always treated at my clinic and it works like a charm for everybody. You know, once we get their waist circumference back in line, we get a moving, we get an eating I like to focus on a heavier animal protein diet, I think that are combined your proteins really well if you're a vegetarian or vegan, but making sure you're getting good protein, adequate protein in your system. I tell people who are strength training to eat about a gram of protein per ideal pound of body weight. So if you want to be 130 pounds, then you're eating a gram of protein per pound that you're shooting for. Strength training is key. I think going for walks is brilliant and old naturopathic Tennant, is just take a walk after meals and we're now seeing data on that supporting that as being efficacious. So going for a walk after every meal, especially if you have carbohydrates in your meal is key. Getting enough sleep is just absolutely critical. That is a non negotiable. And I know a lot of people have sleep issues, I always say and I know it sounds harsh if you have sleep issues and you're not exercising don't talk to me about your sleep issues because I really think we're just fancy mammals and we need to wear ourselves out like I said earlier we got we have a lot of energy and stress to off gas and that really helps sleep quite a bit. So sleeping has been shown if you disrupt your sleep and get inadequate sleep for even a few nights you drop immediately into an insulin resistant state or a metabolic disease state. So we want to make sure that we are getting our sleep putting ourselves to bed on time getting up looking at the horizon in the morning and looking at the horizon in late afternoon and then cutting out all refined sugars. We do not need to be drinking high fructose corn syrup we do not need to be drinking In our sugars, a lot of people are drinking a lot of sugar. If they really sit down and look at it, and getting the table sugar and the refined sugars out of our diet, fruit sugars, naturally occurring sugars, fine, but we sucked down. I mean, I think the average American is eating like a bag of one pound bag of sugar a week, I think was the last stats I looked at was crazy, crazy amount of sugar. So yes, our foods, eat real food is eat real food.

Dr. Paul  25:31  
So you slipped by it really fast. And I want to just make sure I caught it correctly. I think you're equating metabolic disorder or metabolic disease with insulin resistance. Is that true? Yes. Okay, so insulin resistance, I'm going to try to paraphrase it for our audience. And then you can kind of fine tune what I'm about to say, you the receptors in all your cells, we need to use glucose, sugar, for energy. And we have receptors that when you have too much sugar around, they have to down regulate, otherwise, you're you're going to make too much insulin, trying to simplify it, and I'm probably butchering this. But anyway, if your receptors aren't working as well, that's insulin resistance, you make more and more insulin, trying to get the blood sugar to normalize, because that's, for whatever reason, our biology is such that blood sugars are supposed to be kept right in this little narrow range. And how I had never quite put it together quite as eloquently, as you said, just build more muscle so you can reduce insulin resistance.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  26:42  
Yeah, so your cells have the insulin receptors, like you said, and the glucose binds, and the insulin works like a key the let all let that glucose inside the cell and the cell needs glucose to function, right. And if, if there's too much glucose outside, the body starts, like you said, cranking out insulin, and the cells are like, whoa, we have too much. So they cleave off their receptors, they like you said, they down regulate them. So now it's all in the blood, and the cells are starving, which makes your brain think you're starving, so you keep eating. And then this high insulin actually takes all the calories you're eating for the most part, if your insulin is high, and starts hoarding it as fat, not even a good kind of fat, it's hoards it as a kind of fat that gets locked in the fat cells and can't get out to be used as fuel, it's a big mess. So we don't want high insulin, high. Insulin is also pro grow, meaning pro grow cancer, pro grow all kinds of problems, right. So we don't necessarily want high insulin levels. And I don't know, I ran insolence, serum insulin and blood sugar markers on every patient who walked in my door for a decade plus, and I rarely saw a normal insulin level, most everybody was walking around with an elevated serum insulin level, which tells me they had insulin resistance. So insulin is actually really good. When you are building muscle, it helps you build muscle, so it's awesome, like you want and you actually get an insulin, a genic response when you strength train. So for a period of time, after you're done doing your CrossFit, you get an insulin surge, because your body's using it to build muscle. That's the time to eat carbohydrates. That's when you've earned them. Right? That's awesome. But the other thing that strength training does is it up regulates glute four receptors, so it makes more of these receptors that bind the glucose and the insulin and pull it in. So you're literally putting a layer of glucose receptors on you. So all this blood sugar is out there circulating and your muscle stops it up like a sponge. So you

Dr. Paul  28:38  
can use the blood glucose for proper metabolic reasons. Yeah. Basal Metabolic Rate is just that, use that even while you're sleeping, right, just to keep your cells functioning. Yes. And then everything else on top of that. Depends on how active you are.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  28:56  
Yes, but basal metabolic rate will increase when you have more muscle because muscle is a hungry Oregon and it really wants to get fueled, and it needs glucose to fuel it. So and then that fatty liver that goes along with insulin resistance and poor metabolic health, which almost everyone has, I mean, I haven't seen normal liver enzymes on most people, that those fat globules in the liver if left unchecked, and they continue, you know, so many doctors just blow it off because they themselves have fatty liver. So they're like, Oh, this is it's just been normalized. It's crazy. How many patients would walk in and say I have fatty liver but my doctor said it was normal. And I'm like, This is not good. Because eventually it leads to liver cirrhosis. It's not a good thing. So those fat globules are pretty much the first to go when you start strength training. I mean, it's literally the it's a panacea it is the in my opinion, the end all be all non negotiable in this and everybody can strength train older folks can strength train young folks can strike train, we need muscle to move these big levers around. We were designed to pick up everything's and move them up. But across the way, that's how we're built literally, you know, mechanistically. So I think that it's a great tool to help sort of get this whole thing rolling much faster, because I've seen most doctors in integrative medicine using diet, and supplements, and and those are all great, but that's not as much fun is actually throwing some heavy weights around. Once you start doing it, it gets addictive, and it's really satisfying.

Dr. Paul  30:28  
And sounds like it's the most powerful tool, we have to get out of insulin resistance and get on track with, you know, burning the unnecessary fat off and reducing our risk factors.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  30:45  
Yeah. And the last, the last thing I'll say about it is that there's a vicious cycle that happens when your blood sugar is too high. And when you are in that metabolic disease state, that insulin resistance state, it actually induces muscle wasting. So you get in this terrible cycle, where your skeletal muscle mass starts to actually erode because of your blood sugar dysregulation. And so that's a very vicious downward spiral that so many Americans are in and you start getting the protuberant belly and the skinny little arms and legs, which we see so much of walking around. That is a signal that something bad is going on. And so you're kind of fighting an uphill battle for a minute when you start strength training, if you're in that state, because you've got to reverse that. And it takes a minute, it takes about 90 days, I think, for people to really start seeing benefits and to see changes on labs and changes in their you know, and how their figure looks but in their in their body composition. But it it it happens. And it's awesome.

Dr. Paul  31:42  
Yeah. Wow, this is exciting. Where can people go to learn more of your about you and your work?

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  31:52  
Yeah, so my website is Dr. tina.com. It's Dr. T y n a.com. And that's where all my good stuff is. And then I'm on Instagram, probably most active there. And that's just at Dr. Tina. So am I podcasts which I cannot wait to have you on Dr. Tina show. You can find that on all podcast players.

Dr. Paul  32:11  
Dr. T y n a show. Dr. Right. Dr. Dr. Tina show, I am looking forward to being on your show. And I am so thankful that you came on against the wind, you have added a powerful component to our wellness approach. And that is just highlighting the importance of getting back to lifting weights and building muscle.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  32:39  
I love it. Thank you for having me on.

Dr. Paul  32:41  
Thank you, Tina. Appreciate you so much.

Dr. Tyna Moore, ND, DC  32:44  
You too. Thank you. All right, bye bye.

Dr. Paul  32:52  
Welcome Scott Miller back to against the wind doctrines and science under fire. For our viewers. They know my story. But most of my viewers probably don't know your story. I got to interview you. You were days after having an emergency suspension of your license. I know you well enough to know that you have this incredibly huge heart. You're a godly man. You're a married man, you have kids. What happened to you was showed such incredible courage and bravery. I'm close to retirement. And so I was able to take on that risk more easily, I should say because I mean, you and I both knew going into this that there was an agenda. And if you speak out against vaccines, or you speak out against the mainstream narrative of COVID You were risking your career. And I remember reading what your wife Shelley wrote, you know, she saw you speaking out publicly, when the entire medical community both local and national was silent. And you were trying to advocate for children advocate for loved ones in the hospital as you were just trying to point out there because they were using these failed protocols that we knew weren't working. And I remember reading your response to your wife was Shelly I can't if I don't care for these people who will love is I think she wrote Love. This is not love me, meaning she's talking to you. This is not about me. This isn't a me thing. This is a God thing. And I chose to obey. I get goosebumps as I read that right now. I know that's who you are. Because if if people were to go back and look at our first interview, you were raw, they had just days before emergently yanked your license. And I remember that feeling because it happened to me. And actually, folks, you're looking at a man who's again rah, I'm sorry, I keep doing this to you. But you just had a hearing As with with the medical board in your state of Washington, or Washington State Medical Board. Man How, tell me about that.

Scott Miller, PA-C  35:11  
It's like a bad movie. And you're, you're watching it, and you're, you're seeing, you know, you're just you're seeing the manipulation of information. The adding and pasting of words, to or adding or leaving out a word that would be pretty critical for context. And, and use, use those things as a constant character assassination, which, for all intents and purposes, I don't, I don't care because I don't have an emotional attachment to those people. So I'm indifferent to what they're saying about me, it's just it's it's more of the attack on on my values and, and on my family, if, like if, and and the community, right, because these are people that that have been so unbelievably, like kind and loving and supportive and gracious and helping just support just the fight aspect of her or the defense of it. So, you know, when they characterize me in that in as many ways as they can to be this dangerous and nefarious, like hateful person that has no regard for anyone is, is dangerously practicing outside of what the CDC is, is dictate dictated to us, or what Merck tells us, we can do.

Dr. Paul  36:54  
So did they allow your side to present your case?

Scott Miller, PA-C  37:03  
So that that was the other fun thing. You know, they had about 20 exhibits. Now, they would lump their exhibits together. So it would be one exhibit was 1011 pages long. Another exhibit would be 867 pages long. So those were, like the length of their exhibits, they had asked me to send in everything that, you know, send us what you studied in the beginning that gave you the gall or nerve to think that you could figure out how to mitigate the inflammatory pathways or viral replication, so and they said, Send all that I laughed, and in my attorneys, I'm like, I mean, I don't even know that I could find all of it. But okay, so I sent them. I mean, over 100 journals, articles, you know, China, coming out of China in December, January of 2020, etc. And two days before the hearing, they decided that it was too much information for their expert, witness, Dr. NZ and to go through and to pare it down. We had to match their exhibit numbers, so we had to take everything out. Except for 20. She spent her time reading through the ivermectin studies, trashing them and make her point which is ivermectin is unsafe, and prescribing it is below the standard of care.

Dr. Paul  38:42  
Wow. This was all happening during your hearing.

Scott Miller, PA-C  38:47  
Yes. The limitations that they put on our ability to share information that I thought it was vital that I was reading, that I actually wanted them to know, just for their edification, like, things that I read that were my, you know, like these, aha, because I didn't know anything about the virus and Ace two or, you know, proteolytic enzymes and, and, you know, if you're in cleavage sites, there's like, Ah, no, so. So it's like, what do you try to reverse engineer this thing? I was like, Well, I mean, it can't be that hard. And it wasn't easy, but it wasn't rocket science. It was just science.

Dr. Paul  39:33  
Yeah. Well, I mean, you're one of the few that figured out what would help people with COVID. And you were actively helping people. And that was not acceptable to the medical community that wanted to stick with the status quo. The status quo, sadly, was hospitals were killing people unnecessarily with their protocols. You expose that I understand. And what did they what did they I mean, because you must have shared about the FLCC work and some some of our heroes in the Country, you know, peer Korean peer makalah. And Dr. Merrick, Dr. Gould, who's in prison right now. I mean, you know, the magnitude and stature of some of these physicians who've come out to basically say what you were trying to say, and you just didn't have the long list of credentials, or, you know, time in the trenches, but you're with good company, as far as people who were really figuring out how to help patients. What was what was their response to anything of that sort, if you if you indeed you brought that up.

Scott Miller, PA-C  40:35  
They brought it up, over and over and over almost it almost in a pathologic way. Like they like it's like, they think it's some sort of medical cult like thing, right. I mean, it was fascinating, because and the question I wanted to have Dr. Ramsey and asked was before 2020 or before March of 2020. What would your impression have been on? You know, pyramid kala pure quarry. I mean, like, Merrick, these are some of the most published and and most academic at their skill set both academically and in the practice of medicine as a pulmonologist and intensivist. I mean, these are just brilliant, brilliant men. And you look at how they do the studies where you know, just with ivermectin where it's like, we gave three milligrams once to somebody, you know, in the critical care and, and they didn't make it. Solid. It's good work

Dr. Paul  41:43  
a little too little too late there. Yeah. So So summarize for our viewers. I'm so sorry. You had to go through what you went through. Was it just yesterday? When did you have your hearing?

Scott Miller, PA-C  41:54  
The xo is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday of last week. So the

Dr. Paul  41:58  
whole entire week? Last week? Yeah. Wow.

Scott Miller, PA-C  42:04  
And that the Adam Glico, the Chief Chief Investigator for Washington for state of Washington lauded their, their expert witness, Dr. endian. They didn't contact a single patient, a single family. Anybody to determine if the complainant, you know, to determine the veracity of the complaints?

Dr. Paul  42:36  
That that is just so emblematic of the situation with medical boards, I'm under the same situation. To my knowledge, they have not contacted the patients that they've listed as the reason for which they emerge currently suspended my license. Now, any investigator if you're in criminal or civil, you know, legal matters. Part of the investigation is go back to the primary sources and find out in interview some people,

Scott Miller, PA-C  43:07  
yeah, well, and did they make the complaint? Right, well, none

Dr. Paul  43:11  
of our patients made the complaints.

Scott Miller, PA-C  43:13  
Exactly. That was that's what I that's the thing like, like, in fact, it was the family. I mean, the ones that went to the hospital, all died. Yeah. And we tried to make that point where I apologize, person water, where, you know, they're just hammering and hammering that the treating outpatient is below the standard of care. And how dare I provide supplemental oxygen for somebody? It's like, really, like I've seen people walking around the airport or a coffee shop with a tank. So if they can do it, why why can't I do it? If you want to get an idea of where the state is? They were gracious enough to offer me a stipulation. I pay I have to pay the medical commission $30,000 for their time spent investigating me, so I'd have to go to Kansas for an inpatient neuro psychiatric evaluation and psychological workup to and then determine if I needed medications to correct my,

Dr. Paul  44:23  
your psychiatric condition,

Scott Miller, PA-C  44:24  
yeah, my psychiatric condition. And then I would have to have a full remediation of my, my clinical skills through University of San Diego. So that I could learn what evidence based medicine is, and then another remediation on, on studying so I would know what peer reviewed journals are versus just

Dr. Paul  44:48  
you could have the luxury of paying for all of this to

Scott Miller, PA-C  44:51  
and, and, and the time so if I do all of those things, and then ethics courses and write essays right ensure that their remediation or re education is complete. They would then decide whether or not I was fit to, to practice. So that's what the that's that's what's in this is where our taxpayer money is funding this just wow through show so it's fascinating but it was like this is a is my question in my head is Does she really think that right does she think she truly believes that? I need inpatient neuropsychiatric not just evaluation, but

Dr. Paul  45:41  
the diagnosis and treatment? There must be something wrong with you to be helping so many patients.

Scott Miller, PA-C  45:48  
Yeah. Well, she said I was irredeemable. Since since I said, I felt that this wasn't something that I was like, Yeah, this, like, I want to do this. It was like, I mean, I, the first few months, I studied, like I was preparing for, for boards, like, with with clinic, and I go home, and I kept saying, like, why are you studying this and it was a it was fascinating. But because, you know, when you keep hearing, there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing that made no sense remdesivir And you're like, that failed miserably free bola. And so she says, because I felt like I was called, you know, I was called to do this, that there's no possible way that I could be. There is I was irredeemable.

Dr. Paul  46:35  
So you know, what you are up against? Scott, I think it's this good old standard of care, right? And medical boards are, their job is to ensure that providers clinicians are practicing under the standard of care, which is what is commonly done in the community. And sadly, you make no progress if you stay with standard of care, especially if that standard of care is killing people, or is harming them or is ineffective. And you became early on aware of effective approaches. But because they weren't standard of care, you risked everything to save these people's lives. And, you know, I commend you for that courage this board action against you couldn't have come at a worse time personally. I mean, your your house is a disaster because of mold, right. And then your nine, almost nine months living in tents with a family. Wow. I mean, we get temperatures in the 90s sometimes it hits over 100 That's no fun in a tent.

Scott Miller, PA-C  47:41  
No, well, I and then I and I lost my off. And that was that was hard losing my office, you know, I that was it was like the it was like the last like vestige of what I had built, you know, is like yeah, remaining thing because it was like we were proud of

like, I was really proud of the of the care that we were able to bring to to our community and my staff. I mean, the debate I mean, just in general, like my carry and Christy, my office manager in front office, they weren't it couldn't have been more opposite in a sterile environment. I mean, people would just come in and hang out and talk with them. And they were their investment was it was just so fascinating because Baron they saw how invested I was in just fortunately our personalities were similar where their level of empathy and and kindness and giveness not at work was it was just such a an honor to you know, to have been able to serve with them.

Dr. Paul  49:19  
Scott you have a big heart it just you wear it on your sleeve your your loving kindness impersonate. Man I My office is under fire has been because of everything that's going on. And I mean every week now I'm wondering is is it possible to save it? I mean, it's because that's your baby, right? That's your career. You build this this thing that's going to help the community and serve the community and in your chosen profession. My heart goes out to you ma'am. This is this is very difficult times. I have no doubt. I know you're a man of faith. I have no doubt that out of this valley, some really great things are gonna come because people are still being injured. And people are people still more than ever are going to need providers like you. We need you, man. So don't despair. If that's possible. I want our viewers to know that there's a way to support scott miller and his work, we'll get that put up for people to be able to support you.

Scott Miller, PA-C  50:33  
Well, the other thing through so I started Miller wellness, most people are buying vitamin D and C and zinc anyway. So if they get it through our, our well debate platform, and it's very likely it would be cheaper than anywhere else, they could get it anyways. Miller wellness dotnet,

Dr. Paul  50:54  
Miller wellness.net. Folks, I have used well of eight and fullscript, in my own practice, and passed on big discounts. And I know you, Scott, you're going to do the same thing, because that's how you operate, you're going to pass on as much of a discount as you possibly can. So shop and compare, if you wish, I'll bet I'll bet you you're going to be quite pleased that the discount, you don't see it till checkout. So go to mill Miller wellness.net. Gosh, Scott, my heart goes out to you, man. Are you closing words? What would you like people to know? Whether it's personal from your heart, or just cautionary visionary? What? What would you like people to know?

Scott Miller, PA-C  51:42  
So many people have, I mean, you know, it's heartfelt, but I'm sorry, you're going through this. And I've heard that, you know, a few 1000 times. And it's something I think about a lot because I've been just criticized mercilessly about by, by, you know, small contingent, but, or even friends like, why why did you do that, like what you lost? And like, for me through this thing, it's like, well, if the science isn't there, I'm not gonna buy into it. To possibly not get, you know, have a fine on my clinic. I'm not I'm not. Well, you were told to do this. And you were told to do that. I'm like, Yep, it but there isn't a reason. It's just, that's the mandate. That's the new dictate, coming down. And like I, if, if I do it in and families say, can you explain to me why you're doing it? And I say, Well, just because there's no science, backing it.

What else am I going to do that's not backed by science. I mean, a am rambling, I would say. Be, be unapologetic. About how you choose to live, if it's in accordance with what I would say is a Christ like mission.

Dr. Paul  53:28  
Amen. Brother, be unapologetic about doing the right thing? You were that medic? You've been that medic. You've been running into the smoke and pulling people out. I don't know how many lives you've saved. You could probably hazard a guess. But I'll bet you it's in the hundreds.

Scott Miller, PA-C  53:47  
Or hundreds. Yeah. Oh, no, it was. That's why I'm saying it was just it was it was so shocking. I mean, I would have I would have a Friday, Saturday Sunday, with 15 people in a like the 80s Was it was like we would joke. Like that's the new 94 I mean, it wasn't like you're always freaked out. But

Dr. Paul  54:12  
you are running you are running the MASH unit in the war. I mean, you were really trying to save lives left and right. And and you saved most right? I mean, the ones you couldn't save where they got to you too late.

Scott Miller, PA-C  54:26  
Yeah, worked in didn't work or didn't get

Dr. Paul  54:28  
to you at all. I mean, you know that what you've been doing works we know this from from all the greats that you've talked about makalah and Corey and American protocols are worked out you're not this Maverick who's just out there winging it. You're you're a scientist and you're following the good science the real science and you couldn't compromise your ethics people will ask me the same thing how how come you know you're so brave you're so this You're so that? No, we don't have it. choice once you know better, and you're an ethical moral person, so I think Scott, you and I are both calling out to fellow physicians out there, it's time to stand up, it's time to speak the truth. You know, they can't get rid of all of us that, you know, you're gonna stay with a ship that's going down mainstream medicine is right now the Titanic and it's already leaning. And it's going down. The CDC and the NIH, if so compromised ethics that they can never again be trusted. And those who stick by them will go down with them. And so yeah, we're, we're being sacrificed along the way trying to, they're hoping that they can scare enough doctors by, you know, knocking some of us off. It's not going to happen, because our knowledge is still our knowledge. They can't take it away from us, right? Well, folks, you are looking at one of the most heroic, irredeemable providers on the planet organic, oh, my gosh, I tell you, brother, stand strong. But I think for our viewers just understand, the mainstream medical system is broken, it's corrupt. They use medical boards to keep doctors from doing the right thing. If there's something that might help, but it goes against CDC or NIH narratives, government or public health narratives, they will shut those doctors down and use the board, and they'll use the board to do it. And the two biggest areas, they've done that, well, in the past, it was over opiates, they're still doctors losing their licenses for either under or over prescribing opiates, that's become a very dangerous territory for a doctor to go into. I was in addiction medicine, so I know. But now it's vaccines and COVID. So these are the forbidden areas unless you I mean, hook line and sinker toe the line with what the CDC and the NIH and the public health officials say. And the World Health Organization now even has more power than the President, the United States. As far as public policy and what we're supposed to do. It's a strange world, but we're going to come out of it. Scott, thank you for all your hard hard work on behalf of the human race.

Scott Miller, PA-C  57:22  
Well, I want to just really quick it's because of you specifically and and finding out about you through it was through other parents

Dr. Paul  57:34  
and so I destroyed your career.

Scott Miller, PA-C  57:36  
No you watching you and your character standing up for what you believe and you're you've been waiting, you know, obviously way before meeting you, you are someone that i i in terms of character and standing standing by your you're you were unswayed by the attacks, because you knew what you were saying was was truth and you were your goal is to well informed consent and to give the best possible care you can. And I mean, I've watched them attack you and I was like holy crap. It sucked to be doctor.

Dr. Paul  58:24  
You beat me to the finish line.

Scott Miller, PA-C  58:27  
But I just wanted to thank you, you keep saying things about me. But it's because of, of you and the very few what I consider heroes of medical freedom. And so I'm deeply grateful for you paving the way.

Dr. Paul  58:44  
Thank you and I am sorry that I was one of the reasons you are now faced with not having a license, you still got a young family to support folks. There's a Gibson go fundraiser for Scott Miller. And you can go to his his website. He's He's reinventing himself and he's going to be available to people who actually need help whether you've had injury from COVID the illness or COVID, the vaccine. This is the kind of clinician you want to seek help from, because he does the research and he gets it. So thanks for being on the show. Scott,

Scott Miller, PA-C  59:20  
thank you. Appreciate your time.

Dr. Paul  59:27  
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai