Dr. Paul 0:04
Follow along with the winds science revealed. My guest today is Dr. Jane Orient. She is the executive director of AAA P S. That's the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. That's an organization that's been around since 1943. Folks, they have stood up for the private practice doctors, those doctors who are out on their own, who aren't affiliated with hospitals or big institutions. They've also stood up for the patient doctor relationship, something that's been under a huge challenge of late. And we discussed their statement that's on COVID-19 injections, the whole mRNA and DNA technology, the safety signals that were ignored the adverse events, the regulatory agencies, and their capture and failure, and the mandates. It's so great to see a physician organization, standing up for patients. Enjoy the show.
Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. My thought today is about sacrifices and choices. You know, I've had the privilege and honor to interview people like Al McCray, Peter McCullough, Scott Miller, and so many more, who have sacrificed their careers to do what's right. Many sacrifice their lives, lost their lives, their health, trying to do what was best for their families. You know, it's different for everyone how to navigate these complicated choices we're faced in our world today. But it's time for unity, it's not a time to be judging, it's not a time to be criticizing others for the choices they might make, that might be different from our own. You know, the TV is just full of misinformation and propaganda and fear. And people are reacting from fear. And they're not always making the choices that ended up well for them. You know, I see people who've been hurt by the shot, many have given their lives. That hurts. That's a lot of what drives me. When I think about what's coming for kids knowing that the CDC has approved the COVID jabs for the routine childhood immunization schedule from six months on, and that this is already happening. I don't even have the words except that it's upon all of us to do our best to be a light for people to just guide them to information so they can make good decisions. But this is a time for love and compassion and support, to be there for people to be there for our loved ones and to be there for anyone who might be struggling during these complicated times. Thank you.
Welcome Dr. Jain orient to with the wind science revealed it's such a privilege to have you back on the show. My pleasure. You and I met the first time I believe it was we were at a pic physicians for Informed Consent conference, their inaugural conference down in California. Right, right. And I remember hearing you speak and I was just I, sadly I did not know much about a PS. You are the executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, an organization founded in 1943. But before we get into that, can you share with our viewers because not everybody will know who you are? Just your background? Do you have kids? What got you into medicine? How'd you end up being involved with the a
Dr. Jane Orient 3:48
PS? Well, I just always wanted to be a doctor. I went to Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons graduated in 1974. I was did my residency at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, and University of Arizona affiliated hospitals. I was on the faculty at the University of Arizona medical school for about five years and worked in the VA as an ambulatory care physician, their attention on the wards have medical retinue of medical students and residents and that was a lot of fun. But I went into private practice on 1981. So I've been in solo practice of Internal Medicine by myself since that, wow. APS couple years after I went into private practice, went to a meeting and couldn't stay away or all these good doctors who were telling about how they dealt with their patients, how medicine should be practiced. And then I got drafted into being the executive director in 1989. Wow,
Dr. Paul 4:55
you've been the executive director since 1989. That's right. That is amazing I was I had just finished my residency. That is absolutely incredible. So this is an organization that really supports the independent physician and as such also supports the doctor patient relationship.
Dr. Jane Orient 5:17
Exactly, we think about leaving the practice of private medicine. And that means that the physician deals directly with the patient. So the insurance company is not allowed to be the middleman, not to say that all of our doctors are in, in this kind of practice. But that is the ideal, and we promote it, we have seminars, telling doctors how they really can do this, that really is the right way to do it, it's, it's much more enjoyable, it will save you from getting burnout, you may make less money, but you also need less money.
Dr. Paul 5:55
Ha, this is, this is fascinating. We've seen with what's happened in the last three years with COVID. And actually, for the past few decades, the takeover of medicine by corporate structure, hospitals, health plans, and all of that, you know, at first I wasn't clued in to how dangerous that would be to the doctor patient relationship and to health care, just in general. And fairly recently, I was saying things like, we're gonna have to create a parallel system because the current medical system is broken. And what I'm hearing you say is, you've already had this parallel system for
Dr. Jane Orient 6:41
decades, we have, and it's like things were before everybody expected, the insurance company didn't pay their bill. But look, there is inevitably a conflict of interest involved. If you're depending on the insurance company to pay their bills, and they make money by denying care, they like to bring in the premiums, but they don't like to pay for care. And the government likewise, and it's just in fact, the private companies would go bankrupt, the government can just print money, but private companies will go bankrupt if they don't bring enough in premiums to pay for their expenses.
Dr. Paul 7:19
Yeah. In addition to that observation, I saw something that made no sense to me, and maybe you can comment on it. I saw that, in the managed care environment, even something is managed as Kaiser. But there are other HMOs, you know, groups of physicians banded with hospitals providing health care, that it almost seemed like the more they spent, the happier they were. And one thing I observed was CEOs and administrators make more money, the more money that's spent, because they get it, they don't have to
Dr. Jane Orient 7:56
spend it on things that helps a patient guys look good on things that expands their their turf. Yeah. And then more administrative suites, more people, administrators, we can just see the graph of administrators and medicine going up, up up and the graph of actual people doing medical care is pretty, pretty flat.
Dr. Paul 8:19
Yeah. So your model really, that's been you've been supporting for many, many decades, is one where physicians probably are mostly just taking cash payments, so they just cut out the whole insurance mess altogether.
Dr. Jane Orient 8:37
Well, that that is the ideal way to do it. Big cash with cash or checks. The direct primary care movement, which is becoming more popular, involves paying a subscription fee every month. And then you don't pay for when you go into the doctor, but you pay every month that you may have to pay a little bit for lab tests, or for prescription drugs, but the doctor often will dispense in his office at near cost. So you're not paying the pharmacy benefit manager and the other people that are involved in processing the insurance claim.
Dr. Paul 9:12
This is amazing. It really is a novel way. And I I think sadly, most Americans are so captured by this health insurance model, right? They want to go somewhere where they can use their health insurance, but they don't feel like they can even afford to go to a doctor who's independent like that. What would you
Dr. Jane Orient 9:37
because they've paid through the nose for their insurance plan, right? Actually, they expect to get some benefit out of it. But how many people really enjoy going to an office where they have an army of clerks in the front office. You can't talk to the doctor. The doctor won't return your phone calls. You have to all kinds of paperwork has to be fed and all kinds of forms has to be filled out There's pre authorization before you can do anything, you can't get to see the specialist that you want. Until, and unless the doctor will give you a referral. I mean, I don't think many patients enjoy that. And it just hasn't occurred to them that there is another way they speak, really expensive to see a private doctor and will be shocked to find out without having to pay those all those clerks in the front office, just to pay the doctor and maybe the receptionist. The fee can be extremely reasonable. Maybe we should kind of the fee instead of in dollars, as in share a fraction of your managed care monthly premium. Yeah,
Dr. Paul 10:40
no, you make a good point. I think insurance for a lot of families is in the several $100 a month if not over 1000. And then you still have costs. On top of that you still got co pays, you've got you know uncovered costs. So I think you make a an amazing point, I wonder if there might be a way for folks to have sort of a hybrid where you've got basic catastrophic coverage, because if you get in a car accident, or you have, you know, some super expensive medical condition that requires expensive drugs, you've still got some help, but that you take most of your healthcare dollar and put it into this model where you just pay your doctor directly.
Dr. Jane Orient 11:22
Hey, you're talking about insurance? No, like for car insurance, or life insurance, or homeowners insurance. That's how it ought to be. But I don't think you can find a medical insurance plan like that anymore. I used to have one really big deductible insurance plan cost me a couple $100 a year. The deductible may have been $10,000 or more. But I would have saved that much on premiums in a couple of years. So, but you just can't buy that anymore. And with Obamacare. It's virtually outlawed. No plan like that would meet the requirements.
Dr. Paul 12:01
Interesting. So so folks are really stuck, aren't they?
Dr. Jane Orient 12:06
Well, they are. And you know, to have something covered is supposed to be a great thing. But you have something covered means it's controlled, it's managed, you have no choice. Yeah, increasingly, these plans have very narrow networks, where you cannot find the specialists that you need within 100 Children miles of where you live. Yeah.
Dr. Paul 12:28
So, so incredibly sad. So at the AAPs online.org, which is the website for your organization. I know you all put out the Guide to Home based COVID treatment very early on. And this was such an important guide when all we were hearing on the news was, you know, stay home until you can't breathe, there's nothing you can do wait for the shot. And then of course, we'll talk a bit about the shot here in a moment. You have newsletters, you've got incredible journal resources. As a quarterly journal, I noticed just this latest spring issue has incredible articles, the efficacy of the COVID boosters, which they're not helpful. And then the COVID-19 Vax, the impact on pregnancy and menstrual function, very important for folks to know, I'm excited for you to kind of walk us through what what caused me to call you and say we've got to get you back on the show is that this your organization put through this statement, you know about what's going on with the COVID vaccines, and maybe you can introduce the statement, and then we can kind of go through some of the main points, I think it's really important for people to be aware of this.
Dr. Jane Orient 13:42
I think that with the vaccine, by the way, they had to change the definition of vaccine for this. What it does is it causes your body as genetic material was introduced to make the most toxic part of the of the virus. And the idea is you'll get a little bit of this in your body, and your immune system will make antibodies to it. And that will protect you're supposed to be supposed to stay in your arm and it would just make some some antibodies. But in fact, it goes all over your body with these lipid nanoparticles surrounding the messenger RNA, which by the way, is not like natural messenger RNA. RNA has these four bases in it. And one of them is uracil or your ad. Will they put pseudo Euro Dean in there, which has a different configuration, and it makes us stuff much more stable. So if they say well, it breaks down quickly. Well, no, it doesn't. And the reason it doesn't is as deliberate attempt to prevent it from breaking down. So it sticks around and you better be making this protein for who knows how long made ordinarily with a vaccine in your introduces a weakened organism or a toxoid or something And you make the antibodies to the antibodies persist. And they can be triggered by a different an additional exposure to the antigen. But the antigen doesn't stick around forever. And it looks like here your own body is manufacturing this for who knows how long? They never figured that out?
Dr. Paul 15:20
So the the protein you're talking about, I think is the spike protein Correct? Like protein here? Yeah. And that's the antigen. So that would be the equivalent of, say, a particle of virus or a bacterial particle,
Dr. Jane Orient 15:33
or it's something that's on the surface of the virus that that would, you know, make a little thing sticking out that an antibody could hook on to,
Dr. Paul 15:40
right. So these nanoparticles they've introduced this new, it's not new, but it's sort of new in the, quote, vaccine world of introducing these particles in a way that they can get go all over the body and get incorporated into ourselves, turn ourselves into spike manufacturing facilities. When I understood this, I'm thinking to myself, why on earth, would anyone want to turn their body into a manufacturing facility for the actual toxin or the actual equivalent of the infection? It made no sense. What do you think to that?
Dr. Jane Orient 16:19
I don't think people thought of it that is the actual toxin. And they just, oh, well, that's a part of the virus that you can get them into, up they should have done and maybe they didn't know that this, this particular protein has a lot of bad effects all by itself. Or that may damage your tissues and cause you to make an immune response or just attach to your tissues. So you make an immune response to your heart, or your brain and the lining of your blood vessels. Which is really a good thing. Your body has a very complicated system for distinguishing what's part of you with what's a foreign material. And if you start to spark immunity to your own body, you're in big trouble. And we're seeing this right now. We're seeing all kinds of autoimmune phenomena. Yeah. And autoimmunity.
Dr. Paul 17:09
You've been in the trenches, taking care of patients for decades. How easy is it to treat autoimmunity?
Dr. Jane Orient 17:18
Well, a lot of these patients, they have a lifelong chronic disease. And maybe use major drugs to control a long term steroids. Things like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, that's damaging your joints. They damage your kidneys, damaging your lungs, causing scleroderma, making your skin so that it's just really tight and you can't even move. And all these things have been chronic. It's not like you get a new kick of dragging to get over it. Yeah,
Dr. Paul 17:54
Dr. Aryan, are you still practicing?
Dr. Jane Orient 17:57
Just a small accent? Yes.
Dr. Paul 17:59
Okay. So you have seen cases of COVID or COVID? Shot injuries? Yes. And what kinds of things have you seen? Does it? Is it as safe as they were trying to make it seem like it was
Dr. Jane Orient 18:13
in the vaccine? Correct? Well, I don't think so I don't see all that many vaccine injuries, I saw more patients who had COVID, who were afraid of getting COVID, who doctors had told them, there's nothing you can do. I mean, literally, that's what they're told they wouldn't even take their phone calls. Some doctors were seeing patients out in the parking lot. Some doctors just weren't seeing her at all. And if they didn't see the medicine, well, you're not sick enough to go to the hospital yet. And there's really nothing you can do for you. And there are all kinds of things you can do. I mean, just getting your vitamin D level is incredibly important. And the most people in the Western world are vitamin D deficient. Even if they live in a place like Arizona, where there is sunlight. But if they live in a place where it's, you know, it's rainy and overcast all the time, they're almost certain to be vitamin D deficient. And if you are, then your chance of dying of COVID is much higher than if you have adequate levels.
Dr. Paul 19:17
I would have loved to seen a study where they just compared vitamin D against the COVID jab and see who did better.
Dr. Jane Orient 19:25
Oh, well, that would make a lot of sense. Yeah. As far as I know, that has not been
Dr. Paul 19:30
done. Yeah, I live in the Northwest where we have a lot of rain and clouds and less sunshine in northern latitudes. So the sun doesn't hit the skin. People wear clothes and put on sunscreen anyway. So you're absolutely right. I've tested 1000s of children. In my case, I'm a pediatrician. And unless you're supplementing, you're deficient.
Dr. Jane Orient 19:50
Well, some people say that flu season is vitamin D deficient. Season because it's right after wintertime when people have been indoors. or overcast for months. Yep. Yep.
Dr. Paul 20:05
Let's touch briefly on informed consent, because I know your document starts with that, that because COVID-19 injections are under emergency use authorization, they must be considered experimental and informed consent being the bedrock principle of medical ethics. How did millions of people take this injection under duress that doesn't? Can you speak a little bit about informed consent? What it is what it wasn't for COVID? Well,
Dr. Jane Orient 20:30
it should be contrary to federal law, for them to give some shots without giving people the rundown on the possible side effects. Especially myocarditis, I mean, people even ask their pharmacist who is giving this shot about, they were told, we're not told anything about it. And then they've got a son, who's in the hospital with severe myocarditis. And parent probably would not have given consent, even known to that possibility. So I mean, it's not just EAS that require informed consent, really, everything we do, as physicians should require consent to the patient.
Dr. Paul 21:08
Yes. What was so bizarre about the COVID Jab was they rolled this out in a way that pretty much took the typical physician involvement in the process, off the table, like I was working in a busy pediatric practice, we didn't have access to the jab, not that I would have carried it. But, you know, it's given by pharmacists, it's given in these mass campaigns where people were, I mean, some places that McDonald's, I believe it's it, there was absolutely no opportunity to even give informed consent to tell you that here's some risks, here's possible benefits, here's possible side effects.
Dr. Jane Orient 21:55
So stay in the parking lot for 15 minutes or half an hour before you go away. And then if you blacked out, maybe somebody will be able to rescue you. Or some pharmacies, they had cordoned off areas where they could put people who, if people pass down or something they could block the public's view of this bad reaction happening. In here in in Arizona, physicians were encouraged to become vaccine administrators, which is difficult with all the cold storage requirements. Right. So a lot of doctors were doing that. And I understand in Switzerland, now, the physicians are going to be held liable for reactions, and the Swiss government has withdrawn its recommendations, or though it's not taking the product off the market. But think here, physicians still don't worry about I mean, I have some medical society, what are the liability implications if I should decide to administer this? And what type of consent do I need to get? They don't have any answer. They're not asking the question. They're not asking their legal people. They're just saying it's safe and effective public health service in do this, all their publications. So this is how many of the vaccinated This is where you go to get your vaccine. And that's it. Yeah.
Dr. Paul 23:16
So in your statement from the APS, you say the long term effects of the novel mRNA, or DNA technology and the lipid nanoparticles involved in their administration, including carcinogenesis mutagenesis, autoimmune impairment of fertility cannot possibly be known. We actually, I think, have some clues. Now, don't worry about what's going on in those areas.
Dr. Jane Orient 23:41
What we do, but of course, not enough time has passed. We have all kinds of reports, doctors have heard them from patients. I've heard that from my patients, or my patients are telling me about what they've heard from their family, or associates. But you would expect we'd have all kinds of sophisticated clinical investigations by the Mass General by being funded by the NIH, by all of these high powered research and academic centers, and they're just not doing it. They are just not looking into it. For one thing, at least time of doing autopsies on right, die.
Dr. Paul 24:19
They're not allowing autopsies. Apparently, they do.
Dr. Jane Orient 24:23
They are allowed but the hospitals don't pay for them. They're expensive. And the medical examiner's aren't doing them in the way that they should. They probably aren't looking, they don't know what to look for. Except maybe they should just be saving tissue in case we can develop technology later, like me immunohistological stains. Yeah.
Dr. Paul 24:48
I know in the past, you can think back to the rotavirus vaccine when that was first introduced, and there were a few deaths and they just pulled it from the market very quickly. And that's happened in a couple other instances. So Something's very different here. I don't know if you have any thoughts about it. I mean, there have been numerous safety signals as your report outlines, including access sudden deaths. In the past, they would have immediately withdrawn a shot like this COVID jab. But that's not happening. Do you? Do you have any thoughts about what's going on or why that's the case?
Dr. Jane Orient 25:20
Well, it's not explicable as part of normal medical practice, especially the cancers mean, what word is more dreaded by patients and cancers, and yet, physicians are reporting they're seeing called turbo cancer, that cancers that are very rare and extremely aggressive, or unexpected, that may be a patient side of cancer that's been under control for five years all of a sudden breaks out in a very, very aggressive fashion. Be curious about that. There are all kinds of ways in which these products could increase your risk of cancer. Why don't we see a ton of literature? Why isn't every journal have a couple of articles about investigations? Nothing?
Dr. Paul 26:09
What's happened to our journals? It really feels I mean, I, we're both of an age and you're probably a decade ahead of me. I mean, I remember when I was in medical school, the mm WR, I mean, the CDC. In some ways, they really did provide good information, it felt like,
Dr. Jane Orient 26:27
well, I think that we were taught to have confidence in it, and we didn't really have no reason not to. But now there is an active attempt to suppress information partly about a treatment that isn't subsidized by billions of dollars or involved billions of dollars to drug companies, and then just suppress information about adverse effects of the vaccines. Yeah, it does.
Dr. Paul 26:56
It is clearly those of us who are, are looking at the literature. There's censorship everywhere.
Dr. Jane Orient 27:04
You can't even talk about it in medical forums, in the medical society, they've been kicked off a couple of times, they're discouraged from posting, nobody wants to come here. If you're going to be on the forum. Even if I was just asking questions, or just posting an article, saying, What do you think of this in children?
Dr. Paul 27:22
Your statement has some thoughts about that. Maybe you could share that with our audience. It's, I was horrified when the CDC not surprised because you could see that was the end game all along. If they could get the COVID Jab on the childhood schedule, then they can transition into a situation where there's no liability for the manufacturers. So I figured that was their end game, but it's horrific. What are your thoughts about COVID? The illness and COVID the jabs when it comes to children?
Dr. Jane Orient 27:52
Well, it seems to me you shouldn't do anything to a person that is not necessary, or does not have the benefit exceeding the risk and what is the risk of COVID in in young children, so that no child has died of COVID Yet without other comorbidities that might have been the cause of death. So are we vaccinating children to protect their elders? Is that backwards? Should we owe people be doing everything we can to protect them? Why should we be sacrificing them? To protect us? Yeah,
Dr. Paul 28:30
I couldn't agree more. I was a busy pediatrician throughout the COVID until I retired last December. And yeah, not a single child was hospitalized for COVID the illness. I did have a child who got the COVID jab at a pharmacy ended up in the hospital with myocarditis. First case of myocarditis I had seen in my career,
Dr. Jane Orient 28:52
trying to normalize strokes, and heart attacks in children and children. Yep. Have you ever seen those things before?
Dr. Paul 29:00
Never and dementia? Oh, my goodness, that there's such a disconnect between clear thinking, scientific method.
Unknown Speaker 29:15
Dr. Paul 29:19
what happened? Do you have an explanation you've been you've been doing this for a long time.
Dr. Jane Orient 29:23
I think this has been taken over by the third party payment system, which involves the government very closely of Medicare and Medicaid. Government probably pays at least half of the medical bills in the country. Research funding is almost entirely under the control of the NIH. And the NIH and the CDC have lots of incestuous connections. Fact they and they own patents, on vaccines or on drugs. So how can you expect them to be honest when the agency Self and a lot of responsible individuals get paid for not seeing hark.
Dr. Paul 30:08
They've taken it to a whole new level, though. I think you're absolutely right, though, that regulatory agencies are completely captured and corrupted conflicts of interest everywhere. So what do we do? I mean, you and I are physicians, we're talking to, you know, normal citizens out there, what do they do? What do we do? What do you see a path forward, where we can turn this ship around,
Dr. Jane Orient 30:36
we really need a parallel system, where patients can find a doctor who cares about them, you really does believe in the oath of Hippocrates that he's not supposed to do harm to the individual is not supposed to sacrifice any individual for the benefit of the insurance company, or the government, or society, or the planet that he's supposed to be providing, doing the best that he can to every individual who presents himself. And I think patients do not appreciate the need to have a doctor who's working for them. They think, oh, the insurance company's paying for this person I've seen isn't even a doctor but well, it's covered. And, and while they're, well, this looks very good, you know, $5 copay until they're sick. And then they find out about it. And then COVID, brought in just the very, very worst in hospitals, for example, where patients could not even have a family member. And their sign and that is the number one quality assurance mechanism for family members there finds out that they're not taking up the trash, that they're giving the patient the wrong drug. They're not giving the patient the things that he's supposed to have, that they're not feeding him, that they're not hydrating him. That they're that the room is filthy. All of these things are not going to come to our attention unless there's a family member there. Who cares about the patient. Yeah,
Dr. Paul 32:08
you bring up such an important point. And I want to double stress this to our viewers. Please never let your loved one. stay alone in the hospital, even in the ER for even a minute. So my mom recently passed and her story is intriguing. You may have thoughts about it. She was 90 years old, but as healthy as could be on no medications. Her mom lived to be almost 100. And basically her lungs started scarring up over the last month of her life. She got short of breath needed oxygen, we go into the emergency room where her systems were shutting down. X ray from three weeks prior to the time in the emergency room showed massive progression of what they called idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. Basically, her lungs were just scarring up. She did get COVID jabs, three of them, visor ones. And but the care in the emergency room, my sister and I were there never left her side. We were in the emergency room for 33 hours, she was having horrible diarrhea as well. We couldn't get them to come in and even empty the commode. I mean, had we not been there, she would have been sitting in her poop for hours. You could even ring the call like nobody would come for hours. It was absolutely incredible. And then on the floor, the care was again, better. But don't leave your loved ones alone in the hospital.
Dr. Jane Orient 33:32
For sure, I mean, it can be neglected or it can be in great distress, or they can't stop breathing. It can be unresponsive. And nobody's gonna notice unless there's somebody there being a real squeaky wheel.
Dr. Paul 33:45
So you're absolutely right about the parallel system that you brought up. Is there a place where people can go to find such a doctor? I mean, I'm thinking that the APS is is perhaps one resource. But where can people go?
Dr. Jane Orient 34:00
We do have a resource. It's much more limited than we'd like. But APS online.org and the banner at the top has a patient's tab. If you scroll down on there, it has a list of practices that have listed themselves as being friendly to cash paying patients. We also on our COVID Early treatment guide have resources to telehealth services to the wedge of freedom, which title 23 started out with the idea, the wedge of free and where patients can get a doctor who cares about them. And there there have been a number of attempts to start like nationwide directories of physicians, but as far as I know, they have all not not worked out. They have all failed. So while our resources quite limited, it's not the best it's out there as far as I know, the direct primary care People, do you have a system where you can click, click on a zip code and find some clinics that do direct primary care? Not all of them are physicians. Some of them are nurse practitioners. But they do have individual patient care.
Dr. Paul 35:15
And what's that website?
Dr. Jane Orient 35:17
I would have just caught up to search for Director, I just search for direct primary care.
Dr. Paul 35:23
Okay, maybe we can find it and put it in the notes. Thank you for creating that resource. Folks. I get asked all the time, who can I go? To who who thinks like you do? Who can I go to where I can get informed consent. And this is one resource, the APS online.org. Check that out under the patient tab. So if you have had the COVID jab or vaccines in general, and you have what might be an injury, what's your recourse as a patient?
Dr. Jane Orient 35:59
Well, you can talk to your doctor who may deny that that exists. There are some clinics and physicians, the FL CCC, has long COVID treatment facilities, and they many of them are also treating vaccine injuries, because there may be the same types of symptoms, and maybe some of the same, the same mechanisms involved, because they're micro clotting, is there. Is there are there allergic reactions? Are there nutritional things that can help you, I don't think there's any good literature that gives you a well tested protocol to follow. But there are clinics that have a lot of different blood tests and things that can me in there till medicine appointment with someone who will go over your symptoms with you. And if you get some ideas, and if you can find a doctor you can trust, you can take that information to your doctor, maybe get prescriptions written, but this this is a really, really difficult problem when the whole professionals to nine, something even exists. How do you get them to say, Well, maybe you haven't, or maybe there's something that will help you constantly get beaten over the head, but by threats that are putting out disinformation or misinformation, or recommending treatments that haven't been testable, but they're not going to be tested because nobody's funding them. And it would require admitting that there might be a problem to fund them. So it's difficult. Yeah.
Dr. Paul 37:38
So within that advice, folks, if you're listening, if you've had the COVID, jab, or potentially if you've had the COVID illness, I think the jab is way more dangerous than the illness clearly. And you develop something new, I don't care what it is, you need to be thinking it could be related. And you're going to have to find a practitioner who's willing to look into that. And you're so right, Doctor Orient, most doctors, I mean, when I took my mom into the ER, not a single doctor even asked about COVID status, prior infections, whether she had had any jabs, it's not on the radar. It's it's
Dr. Jane Orient 38:17
there are modalities that can be very helpful, like hyperbaric oxygen, oxygenation therapy, people will even admit that that has helped a lot of people but they say, oh, you can't get this. That's not an available enough. There'll be too expensive. Nevermind that your life is being destroyed by your inability to work, compensate, we're not going to try to help you this something that many people report has had miraculous effects. Yep.
Dr. Paul 38:45
So the APs in your statement has come out and said that all mandates including requirements for school for work should be immediately withdrawn, and the COVID-19 injections should be withdrawn from the market. I couldn't agree more. How can we get this
Dr. Jane Orient 39:01
to happen? Well, that's a very good question. I mean, you can pound on the doors of your legislators, or people are filing lawsuits. We have found our own lawsuits. We tried to help physicians who were in trouble because they are doing what they think is right instead of what's on the protocol. public pressure but if patients are informed, then sometimes they just have to use their their rights and say no. And there may be consequences to that. You can get to go to the school that you wanted to go to. We do have some information on how to try to get religious exemptions which may work better than medical exemptions. I've had some medical exemptions tonight that really should have been, really should have been granted. Yeah. If patients just going along with us and saying, We trust our doctors, we trust the AMA, we trust trust. The CDC and the FDA, we trust the government. And we're just gonna go along with what they say, well, then they're gonna get the consequences.
Dr. Paul 40:09
I've often thought and I don't say it very often, but it really does matter who you trust does. I mean, where you get your information, who you listen to, makes total difference on what you're hearing, right. And I remember during elections, you could go to one network or another, and it was like you were on two different planets. Well, that's politics. But unfortunately, it feels like in the medicine world that you and I live in, things seem to have been politicized and messaging has been captured. So it really matters who you listen to folks.
Dr. Jane Orient 40:44
And how many times do they have to live? Before you stop leaving them?
Dr. Paul 40:50
Right. So what are some of on that point? Actually, what are some of your favorite sources for for good information? Like, who do you listen to?
Dr. Jane Orient 40:58
It is difficult to answer that, because, unfortunately, even on both sides of the issue, I mean, people who were for mandates and all that. And I don't don't believe them at all. But there are people who are supposedly on our side, that may be putting up things that are not entirely credible, either. There is a new sub stack that I do refer people to let me just make sure that I have it here. It's neutral. researcher.substack.com. I will check that out. There are articles there that I think are very helpful.
Dr. Paul 41:37
Neutral researcher on substack. Yes.
Dr. Jane Orient 41:41
Dr. Paul 41:46
Excellent. I know Peter McCullough is on there, there are lots of people who are able to speak freely on substack, which is, so far a very positive thing. It's one of the places where censorship does not seem to be taking place.
Dr. Jane Orient 42:02
So some of the people there, you really need to learn to critically and think for yourself. Yeah, and look for inconsistencies look for contradictions. See whether it agrees with your own experience. I'm afraid everybody's education has been so dumbed down, that people are more dependent than they should be on on the so called experts, self styled experts.
Dr. Paul 42:30
Right? Well, including our peers, physicians. I think it starts in preschool all the way through college. But then we went off to medical school. And I mean, it was a little better back when you and I were in medical school. But I had a young medical student, I think he's probably just graduated, I was mentoring him, preparing him for what was coming. When he was still in those first two years of, you know, basic sciences. And he was idealistic. He wasn't Oh, no. And soon as he got into the clinicals, I lost him just completely buying into the narrative, right? It's, it's very difficult when it's
Dr. Jane Orient 43:13
got the electronic health record. What's on the drop down menu is what you're supposed to do. Yeah, it's not on the drop down menu, you have to justify yourself.
Dr. Paul 43:25
That is something else.
Dr. Jane Orient 43:29
Bobby, you should have a basis for what you're doing. Right? Just use evidence based medicine based on their experience, their callings experience, what's in the literature, what's in the old textbooks. And you have to realize they got all these randomized control studies, and none of the patients in those studies is like your patient. Your patient is so sick and so complicated. A wouldn't qualify. Right?
Dr. Paul 43:55
They take the healthiest people and they put them in the trials. And that way they can endure the negative effects without as much harm. And then they generalize the recommendations to all people including, well, here's one, what are your thoughts about pregnancy in the COVID jab?
Dr. Jane Orient 44:14
Well, that wasn't tested, these people were excluded from the testing. And then everything else that said, you know, you don't give anything to a pregnant woman. Until there's good evidence that it's not going to be harmful. At least there should be animal studies, and you shouldn't give her something that's not necessary. But they will say oh, if you get COVID all these bad things might happen. And this vaccine had an adverse effect. Well, if you had gotten COVID Maybe you would have had that too. But if you look at the recent article of our journal at JP and s.org article looking at the pregnancy outcomes, which are horrifying and you know nurses on the on the units will say we've never seen this many stillbirths. We've never seen this many babies die.
Dr. Paul 45:06
Yep. And bleeding problems. bleeding problems. Yep. I my sister works on a postpartum and they're seeing four times as many bleeding problems that they used to once the vaccine was rolled out.
Dr. Jane Orient 45:20
Well, maybe it was something else. But what is the something else? And shouldn't we be really working day and night to try to figure out what it is? Right? Just completely ignore and disregard and say it's impossible. The one thing that has dramatically changed that we know about, at least I can ask whether the person has been vaccinated or not. And do a simple study, like how many of the people were vaccinated? And when did they get their last dose? And how many doses did they get? Yeah, why don't we even with electronic health records? Why don't we at least know that
Dr. Paul 45:55
that information is there? It's a crazy world we're living in? Do you have kids or grandkids?
Unknown Speaker 46:00
I do not do that. What?
Dr. Paul 46:03
If you did, what would your recommendation be? As relates to the COVID job and maybe vaccines in general, just knowing what you've lived through in the last
Dr. Jane Orient 46:15
never, ever give any child a COVID? Jab, period, there's no evidence they're safe. There's no evidence that they're necessary. As to the other vaccines? Do they really need 70 jabs? We know we haven't tested giving the jabs all together at once. This assume that they're safe, you can give them six at one sitting, even though in case the babies who have died, get caught up getting all their jabs at once. There's an article in our journal that study Yes, the side effects are greater if patients get too many vaccines simultaneously. There really are not good long term safety studies. We've got a control group out there, and these pigheaded parents who haven't allowed their children to get vaccinated. And from what information is there, which is not a good study, those children's seem to be very healthy compared with them. I mean, children today are so sick, they carry epi pens to school, and peanut allergies and eggs and they have asthma. It just chronically ill why is that? What? Why with all of these jobs on our children, just beaming and vibrant and healthy as can be? Good question. You're a pediatrician. What do you think?
Dr. Paul 47:36
Well, I was gonna ask you about something. So you you grew up 10 years before I was born? Approximately, you're about a decade ahead of me. When you were growing up? Do you remember seeing all these chronically ill kids with autism and ADHD and eczema and diabetes and on and on?
Dr. Jane Orient 47:56
Absolutely not. And I think there was one obese, one obese girl. School. But we didn't have we didn't have epi pens. Everybody ate peanut butter sandwiches. It's just amazing that these kids are sick. Kids today are learning disabilities. Yeah. How many behavioral problems? Is that the television? Is it bad parenting? Or could it be something in the environment? Why don't we know? Well,
Dr. Paul 48:26
we have really good clues. We just don't have enough good studies, right? environmental toxins, I think are paramount. It's huge. Sure we have genetic vulnerabilities. But this is not a genetic epidemic. This is an epidemic caused by something in our environment. And I mean, you know, my passion, it's it's stumbling on the fact that my unvaccinated patients are incredibly healthy. And then publishing data from my practice that validated that suspicion. We have to look at it. And I'm not trying to say it's just vaccines. But that is a huge part of the puzzle.
Dr. Jane Orient 49:05
We're worried about mercury in the environment in the children fish. Why don't we look at Mercury in the shots? Well, they did in the arm. Why? Why isn't that a problem? Things that that, you know, you may eat a paint chip, and maybe that's not good for you. And maybe it'll decrease your IQ point by half a half a point. But what about children whose language ability is completely destroyed?
Dr. Paul 49:29
Yeah. Aluminum in the shots is huge. It's a lot of it's carried to the brain and it's neurotoxic. It's stimulates auto immune problems. There are lots of reasons for us to perhaps go back to thinking well, what were we doing 5060 years ago? You know, when you and I were growing up as kids, and that, well, the environment was less polluted for the most part, but we weren't doing as many jobs either. Are
Dr. Jane Orient 50:02
you no collusion is better in many different respects. But also mom was packing your lunch? Yep.
Dr. Paul 50:09
Yep. So many factors. Yeah. So.
Dr. Jane Orient 50:14
But anyway, we at least need to admit that the chronic illness burden is terrible. So let's figure out why that is. Yep.
Dr. Paul 50:24
Absolutely. And sort of, to wrap things up, and I've so thank you for your time.
Unknown Speaker 50:32
What would be
Dr. Paul 50:35
sort of on your heart to the viewers, the most important thing you want to impart to them?
Dr. Jane Orient 50:43
You need to learn to think for yourself, think critically, because you're trying to find a doctrine you can trust. That means a doctor who's working for you. A lot of parents asked me, Where can I find a good pediatrician? To say, I sure wish I knew. I think family doctors are less, less indoctrinated maybe than those who are with the American Academy of Pediatrics. But maybe you have some advice on that point, please help me patients. ask me this all the time.
Dr. Paul 51:12
Yeah, no, I agree with you. The American Academy of Pediatrics has been sold out to pharma for a very long time. And there are, there's a growing number of us, pediatricians who are I think COVID helped wake up a lot more. But we're still I know of personally only about 20 in the country. Five years ago, it was five of us. So it's difficult to find a pediatrician who's honoring informed consent and willing to let you do no vaccines, if that's your desire, and support the natural immune system. And I would agree, our family practice colleagues, that expands our opportunity. And there are there are good complementary providers naturopaths, who are very science minded and thinking clearly, and can help depending on what state you're in.
Dr. Jane Orient 52:09
Is it true pediatricians, they make a lot of money if they're, if their population is almost fully vaccinated. Oh, my
Dr. Paul 52:19
goodness, I published a paper on this. So I was observing, I had a very huge practice, I was seeing 30 to 40 newborns each month. So that's probably 10 times more than an average pediatrician would see, we were just exploding from pretty much from the moment I opened my doors at integrated pediatrics. And we were making a lot of money for a while until word got out that we honored informed consent. And in fact, in Portland, Oregon, where I was practicing other practices were kicking people out of their practice, if they wouldn't follow the CDC schedule, while these people had nowhere else to go except my practice. So over a period of a few years, we got more and more and more patients who didn't want any vaccines or who wanted to go slow. So I took a sampling of one month of every patient scene in my practice, and we had the practice of on our super bills, which is where we would document everything we're doing that would require a charge from the billing department. On the backside of the superville was a vaccine refusal form. It was basically a modified Academy of Pediatrics vaccine refusal form, it had all the vaccines that you could potentially give a child. And we were thorough at every well visit, to check off everything that that child would have needed that they were behind on. And the families would have to reject them, they would have to decline those vaccines. So we had a record from all well visits of who got which vaccines and which vaccines they declined. So we did an analysis of this by insurance company by insurance company, because contracts are different for every insurance company. And we just looked at how much money was lost for vaccines that were refused by patients. It was over a million dollars in one year for my practice. Now, mind you, I was billing a little less than 3 million a year at that time, gross Billings. So if you lose a million out of 3 million, the overhead and pediatrics was running 70 80% It was no wonder we were really struggling to make ends meet. I truly believe pediatric practices would not survive without the income they get from vaccines.
Dr. Jane Orient 54:32
To read us an article about that for a journal.
Dr. Paul 54:35
I sure can we already published one article, I'll send it to you. But we should be able to rework that data for an article for your journal.
Dr. Jane Orient 54:44
People really need to know that. Yeah, it's
Dr. Paul 54:47
it's a huge conflict of interest. And but the interesting thing is, if you ask a pediatrician, they will deny it. I used to deny it. But what happened is over the last 20 years, I I think the amount of money that the insurance companies reimburse physicians, for this admin fee part of it, right? We don't get much money on the markup on pediatricians. It's really hard to get good deals on vaccines, and you can only mark it up a tiny bit, you're making $1 to $5. At most, I believe most practices are making a tiny amount of money on the market. But the admin fee average is $40 for the first antigen, and $20 for subsequent antigens. And when you look at all the vaccines you're giving, I mean, on a two month in a six month visit, there's eight antigens, just for that one visit. Well, that's 40 plus $20 times seven, it's a couple 100, almost $300.
Dr. Jane Orient 55:43
And pediatricians I've heard them denied that giving vaccines is profitable to get snakes, so little money from giving vaccines, we only do it because we're so dedicated.
Dr. Paul 55:54
Yeah. Well, I used to say that because I was just looking at the markup, and not realizing this admin fee thing has sort of grown and grown and grown to the point where now it's a significant moneymaker. So I mean, the whole in pediatrics, honestly, I mean, I'm retired now. So I guess I can throw my peers under the bus. But if you if you took away, well, child care, and you took away vaccines, you'd be left with just caring for sick kids. If the if the kids were not vaccinated, they almost never get sick, which is something else I found in my data, you'd be out of business. So over half your income is coming from welfare, and vaccine income. And yeah, you just would not survive without it.
Dr. Jane Orient 56:42
Taking care of six kids is so hard. So scary. Well, I loved
Dr. Paul 56:49
it. That was that was the fun part of my my practice because, well child care is so I mean, especially when we went electronic medical records, you've got to check off so many boxes to be a to do a good well child care visit. You're basically spending, you know, half an hour on the computer screen filling in boxes and trying to talk to the patient in between filling in these boxes. I found that tedious and not rewarding, but get a really sick kid and figure out what's going on and, you know, help them. That was I loved it. That was my favorite part.
Unknown Speaker 57:24
Dr. Paul 57:26
So I do want to thank you for all the wisdom you've shared on on our show today. And God bless you and all the work you're doing.
Unknown Speaker 57:34
Thank you Dr. Thomas. Thank you.
Dr. Paul 57:41
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.
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Dr. Paul's book, The Vaccine-Friendly Plan, may not align with his latest findings on the Vaxxed-Unvaxxed data. However, it still serves as a valuable tool for those who follow the CDC schedule. The book offers peer-reviewed information encouraging parents and guardians to think critically about vaccine decisions. While Dr. Paul cautions against following the Vaccine-Friendly Plan, it can still be a helpful resource for those seeking a starting point for their vaccine journey.
Dr. Paul's research: https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/22/8674/pdf, though wrongfully retracted as shown in this study: Revisiting Excess Diagnoses of Illnesses and Conditions in Children Whose Parents Provided Informed Permission to Vaccinate clearly shows that those children who were not vaccinated were much healthier than those who followed the Vaccine-Friendly Plan.
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