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​Dr. Paul  0:06  
Welcome to with the wind science revealed. Today's interview I talked with Stephanie sir. She has degrees in medical microbiology, immunology, neuro psychiatry. She's a full time vet, and mom, and we're going to discuss first the parallels between veterinary medicine that's dealing with animals, and pediatrics, my world. And then we also discuss the incredible effort and energy that she has put into fighting for medical freedom, not only in California, where she was originally, but also here in Oregon, and how that applies to everybody in the entire country. You're not gonna want to miss a minute of this one.

Dr. Paul, from the heart, I believe. I believe that we are actually all going to be just fine. I believe in love, I believe in hope, I believe in Unity. You know, believing is just knowing that deep conviction that something is true, that something is going to be exactly as you know, or feel it's going to be. And in the midst of a lot of uncertainty, we can always fall back on our belief. I believe in love above all else, and the power that love brings into our world, whether we share it with our child, our parent, our loved one, our friend, or someone who's deeply in need and who's hurting. I believe we can win this battle against everything that seems to be coming at us. And I believe we will unite and have an incredible future, not just here in the United States, but worldwide.

Welcome, Stephanie, sir. It is a real honor and privilege to have you on our show with the wind.

Stephanie Sur  2:05  
Thank you. It's nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Dr. Paul  2:08  
You have an incredible background. I'm so excited for this interview. Folks. If you're going to tune into this, you're not going to want to tune out. You have medical degrees and microbiology, immunology, neuro psychology, you are a doctor of veterinary medicine. You've trained in acupuncture, integrative veterinary medicine, herbal medicine, homeopathy, food therapy, you are a full time vet and a wife, mom of two kids. And then when I saw all the work you've been doing in the medical freedom space, how do you do it? So anyway, I am just so excited to learn from you. Maybe start with just your journey, your story? How did you come to this place?

Stephanie Sur  2:50  
Yeah, so um, I got interested in alternative therapies while I was in veterinary school. So we had someone come and do a lecture on acupuncture. And I thought, Wow, that sounds really interesting to me. And, and my mom, for her generation was an older mom. And so I had kind of an old school upbringing. You know, you gargled was saltwater when your throat was sore, and that sort of thing. But I did have all the vaccines that were available, including, you know, rabies vaccine to go to veterinary school. And I was starting to have some problems after I got those set of rabies vaccines. So I turned to my training that I had learned in alternative medicine and started working on myself. And then after I was practicing for about five years, I got really tired of kind of a bandaid on all of my patients, you know, they come in with an ear infection and, you know, give him some antibiotics, and they were just coming back over and over again. And I wanted to really heal that. So that's when I said, Okay, I'm gonna go get certified in acupuncture and alternative therapies and started doing that. It changed everything for me with my patients. So instead of just, you know, seeing the same patient over and over again, I was teaching them how to heal, whether it was changing their diet, whether it was using herbs and acupuncture or homeopathy. So I really enjoyed that. And that's sort of where my journey into alternative medicine came for my patients for for myself. I had four autoimmune diseases that started to kind of show their ugly heads. And that was really difficult. I had trouble getting pregnant. Then I had trouble with my pregnancies. And so, you know, I really started to look at where did these come from, and how did I develop them? And then that research, you know, I started to read about, you know, vaccine injury and started to notice the connections between not only the timing of when I received that vaccines, but also all of the symptomology that showed up afterwards. And while I was pregnant, started researching, you know, what do I want to do with my own children. And so I had decided I was going to do sort of the slow vaccines with my kids and not do the day one vaccines and maybe just slow it down. And I ran into some issues with my kids. And that's when I really got activated with my medical freedom journey. So that's where it all began.

Dr. Paul  5:32  
Wow, your note to me, you made a good point. Dr. Sears wrote the vaccine book, which actually was so spot on to what I wanted to write, when that came out around 2007 2008. I ended up waiting, getting a lot of data from my practice and writing the vaccine friendly plan. And you made a point, we neither of us pointed out to readers that in almost every state in the nation here in the United States, there is a mechanism for a philosophical or religious exemption. And so you know, educated informed readers like yourself, ended up not knowing that you have that option.

Right? Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah, I apologize.

Stephanie Sur  6:14  
Next book that's going to be in the front cover.

Dr. Paul  6:18  
Awesome. Yeah, that's what I said. It's page one should be you know, there's alternatives. You don't have to do this in, you know, most states. Obviously, we've lost some of that freedom in New York and California. And, you know, hopefully not here in Oregon. But that's always the fight that we're we're waiting for is when are they going to try to renew religious or non medical exemptions from us like they did when I was in California? Yeah, yeah. And

Stephanie Sur  6:43  
I think for listeners, whether you're in a different state here in the US, or whether you're in a different country around the world, it is really clear that big business, big pharma, big interests are targeting our freedoms. And they do it state by state, country by country. So it's a battle that has to be continued. And we'll get to your what you're doing in that realm, because it just blows my mind. And it's not my wheelhouse. But before we go there, about patients, your doctor of veterinary medicine, you're talking about animals, correct?

Dr. Paul  7:13  
Correct? Yes.

Stephanie Sur  7:16  
I always feel like veterinary medicine and pediatrics, which I'm in or have been, I just recently retired. There's a lot of similarities, because oftentimes, our patients don't talk to us. In your case, they never talk to you unless you have a special gift. I wish. You know, intuition is one of those things we use. But we have to talk to the parents, right. But I remember maybe you can help me remember the specifics. There were studies being done in veterinary medicine, I think way ahead of human medicine that shed a light on problems with vaccines. Do you recall any of those?

Yeah, so I think the biggest study is, especially in cats, there was an association between vaccines and fiber sarcomas, which is a kind of cancer. And back in the day, everybody gave vaccines in the scruff, you know, behind the neck in between the shoulder blades, and especially cats would come with these very hard, really infiltrative masses, that of course, if they're in that location, you can't cut them out to try to treat them. And everybody, you know, started to think well, what's happening? What are we all doing? That's the same thing in this area. And it you know, is vaccines, so they veterinary medicine is pretty honest about that association with fiber sarcomas and vaccines and cats, and then other sarcomas in canines that are associated so what they started to do is move the location. So new veterinary students who are graduating, I found this to be interesting, how are being taught to give vaccines in cats tails, because you know, it's really easy to amputate a tail if they have a fibrosarcoma. So, you know, my thought would be, instead of just dealing with a cancer, let's talk about which patients actually need these vaccines. What is the risk, you know, benefit ratio? And how can we do things to decrease the number of vaccines are getting over their lifetime, so that they, you know, are less at risk and so I have a different approach than maybe a Western practicing veterinarian. I do titer testing, lots of history taking you've got an indoor cat, what are the chances they're ever going to be exposed to any of these things? Do we need them? Different states have different laws about rabies? So a lot of states including Oregon, you know, rabies is required for for canines, so that's not an option. But yeah, they're they are definitely more honest about vaccine associated risks. Immune mediated thrombocytopenia is another one that would you see that on your list? vaccine reaction whereas in you know human medicine, the oh never, never, never associated seizures, all kinds of autoimmune diseases that we just say, okay, that could have been from a vaccine, whereas that's not as easy to say in the human world so deadly. And our vet veterinary doctors still sort of undergoing pressure to do a particular schedule, just as we are on the pediatric side. Like, is there an equivalent of a CDC schedule for vets?

Dr. Paul  10:32  
Here is there's a recommended schedule, especially there's some like feline associations. But I also, I also find that they're more open to, you know, what is this pet need? versus, you know, what should they have, at least in my generation, I mean, I've been practicing 20 years, I was just recently working with a new grad who's been out for two years, and the vaccine schedule that he was going to follow was scary. It was really scary. It was a lot of vaccines that, you know, none of us would have given that many. So I think that also is happening in our world where they're coming up out of school giving a lot more than maybe we would have, but I don't feel that kind of pressure. Like, it's sort of like okay, you do you do what you think is the right thing for your patients. So there's not as much pressure.

Stephanie Sur  11:22  
So being as your integrative in your approach, have you noticed whether animals pets, what have you who are less vaccinated are unvaccinated? Are they faring as well? Or are they getting slammed with all these infections that vaccines are supposed to cover? No, they're doing

Dr. Paul  11:40  
really well. So I also think education is really important. So my clients who come in and are wanting to do either none or less, I spend a lot of time talking about where they might pick up some of these diseases, and you know, what to look for, and how to protect themselves. You know, homeo prophylaxis is a great tool we can use for some of those patients, because it's not that they won't get a virus that it will move through them more easily. And they shouldn't have as many complications. And you know, I'm always looking for what's going on in the community to like, are we seeing a lot of parvo virus or not, you know, are we seeing a lot of kennel cough or not. And so you can make those those judgments based on what's going on in the community too. But I find my over vaccinated pets have a lot of anxiety. I mean, I, I can tell you, in the 20 years, I've been doing this, that the amount of dogs that come in even now cats that come in and have to be on some sort of medication all the time for their anxiety, separation, you know, nervousness, they just, it's it's looking very similar to what we're seeing in the pediatric population. And my patients that are less vaccinated or more thoughtfully, vaccinated aren't having all of those issues.

And how about the autoimmune and allergy world?

Stephanie Sur  13:03  
That's bad. Yeah, lots of allergies in the overbred, too. I think there's some breeding that has to do with that with some of these patients, but over vaccinated pets that are on a lot of pesticides and are on, you know, all kinds of interventions and eating kibble diets, they are definitely having a lot of allergies and autoimmune disease, especially in our older patients that keep getting a lot of vaccines. I do see a lot of it. But allergies are by far allergies and anxiety, I would say are by far the the two worst things I'm seeing.

Dr. Paul  13:37  
Yeah, my my last couple pets were not vaccinated. And gosh, they were just the the chillest healthiest animals ever. It was like amazing. It's like, Ah, just like I've experienced with my pediatric population, right? Oh, you've had to experience and sort of work on autoimmune issues that you suffered yourself. I know, you don't want to chat about specifics of your kids, but you've seen issues with your children that are likely related to vaccines as well. So part of perhaps why you're so passionate about, you know, people being informed, right? There should not be a one size fits all for a product that has real risks. Tell us a little bit and this is where our listeners should just clue into the fact that you know, here, here's an expert in immunology and who's you've been working in different states to working for our medical freedom? How do you do that? How did you get into that? Share a little bit about that journey?

Yeah. Well, I think one of the things that that always comes up is this social contract that we're all supposed to live by. And you know, you have to do the right thing and make sure that you're protecting these immunocompromised people that are either in the schools or in society and, you know, your kids will have to be vaccinated and you have to be vaccinated and what people don't think about is the others. sight of that social contract. Like, if that's really what we're going to do, then when I'm injured, or my child is injured, the society needs to step up and take care of us. And that's the part that doesn't happen. You know, we are spending all the extra money, and then some that we have on treatments, because lord knows anything in the western world isn't going to help. And then, you know, you're not sleeping, your children aren't sleeping, is there some one paying for like a nanny to come in and hold my baby so I can get an hour's worth of sleep while they're having their colic episode? No. So I think for me, that's sort of where I got a little upset. I thought, okay, you expected all of us to follow this. And then where are you to help us there's no one, you know, and especially when you're paying out of pocket, because most of the really experienced practitioners who can help you don't take insurance, and even if they did, whatever treatments you want, it wouldn't be covered by insurance. And so that kind of lit a fire under me, I got, I got a little angry, I have to say, you know, you go through all of this, and you have these hopes and dreams for your kids and yourself. And, you know, I can't do all the things that I wish I could do, I have to be very careful with my energy. Which, you know, I know you said do a lot, but I have a great husband, who, without him, there's no way I could be fighting these battles. He is, you know, 100% supportive. He steps in when I need to be away to do something to take care of the kids. And, you know, he's, he's my rock, I couldn't do it without him. Love you, Ryan. Thank you.

Stephanie Sur  16:42  
Thank you. Thank you, to all of you out there. Who are spouses supporting somebody who's doing hard and important work? We couldn't do it without you.

Dr. Paul  16:51  
Yeah, no way. No way. So back winning in California, when Senator Pan came along and removed religious exemptions in 2015, that really woke me up and I thought, wait a minute, we're, we're in America, I thought we were, you know, this is what we were founded on is, you know, religious freedom and, and choices. And then I thought, Okay, well, my, my kids will be okay, because we still have medical exemptions. And then in 2019, he came along and did SB 276. And that's when I got really active in the community. So as someone who had a medical background, I thought I can, I can just go to my representatives, and all explain it to them. And they just don't know, I'll just tell them what's going on. Alright, a lot of doors slammed in my face a lot of you know, just this is what we have to do to protect people. And they, although I will say meeting after meeting, I would bring that list that is ON IMMUNITY education.org that Dr. Sears and Melissa Floyd made up that has the entire list of the 72 vaccines that kids get between zero and 18 years of age. And I would notice representatives turning back to that page, over and over again, like really, they get this many vaccines. So I started to see a little a little crack in like maybe there's a way in which some of these people didn't work, we obviously lost that battle. But it taught me a lot about how to engage with legislators, how important it is to have meetings over and over and over again, even if it's with their staff, and how to engage the community. So I started working with some other women, you know, parental education, or protect educational rights of kids started working with them early on, and they have some brilliant ladies who make beautiful papers that have infographics and all kinds of things on it. And then I started working with some ladies in my area. So I was in the Bay Area. And we thought, you know, next step is let's teach everybody how to do this. So we put on these little conferences where we teach everybody how to speak to their legislators, and how to be prepared. And you know, a lot of people just don't know. And they're afraid for some reason they think

Stephanie Sur  19:12  
he's never done it. It's It's overwhelming. How do you start? Where do you go? What do you say? Who do you talk to? How do you even know who to talk to? Right? So this educational material you've put together with the team with perc, is that correct?

Dr. Paul  19:25  
I worked with park and I worked with just some friends who lived near by me and we engaged our local legislators and our local, you know, people over and over again. And we found a candidate who was running for Senate and she was a Democrat, which you know, it's hard to find Democrats that are interested in this topic. And show you

Stephanie Sur  19:47  
blame that to me, This just blows my mind. I was a kid. I grew up in Africa, we were always about, you know, serving the poor, the underprivileged, you know, that seemed to be more in the past. Get of the Democratic Party back at least traditionally. And what happened? It feels like they've abandoned the masses in favor of pharma and big money. I just I'm confused. Do you have a an explanation?

Dr. Paul  20:15  
I wish I understood why. But I to lifelong Democrat, always thought of them as the party of the little people, protect the minority protect people who can't protect themselves stand up against Big Pharma, big corporations, big business. And I found that to be the complete opposite during this particular fight. So I don't know, I don't know why I don't know why they can't see, this is the same fight. It's a civil rights fight. In my mind, you know, these are people who are making choices because of either previous injuries, and they know that continuing on the schedule will just kill their child in some way or the other. Or it's a religious freedom and telling people that can't be a part of society, because they're making a different choice seems so counter to the Democratic Party. So it was surprising to me again, I thought, I'll just tell him what's going on. Because they're on my side, they this is what we do. This is what Democrats do. And it was not I actually came to notice a lot of the Republican legislators in California, and they were very supportive. You know, they're even more of a minority. Here in Oregon, we've got a little bit more, it's not quite a super, super, super majority the way it was in California. So there was nothing that really they could do to help us in California, but it was nice to be heard. And to have people say, you know, you're right, this is something that you should be able to choose. This is the United States of America. I wish I understood why I mean, I if you, Bobby Kennedy would say it's, you know, just captured agencies, and and, you know, lobbying and all the money that goes into their campaigns. And I wish I knew more than that. I wish I knew on a soul level how they can be okay with.

Stephanie Sur  22:03  
Exactly. Yeah, so So you've probably experienced this phenomenon that so many of my patients experienced if they have a vaccine injury. And once that's happened, it's all of a sudden, like, you're shunned by doctors, you're shunned by everyone, as if you're making it up. And you alluded to the fact that you get no support when you try to go get, you know, appropriate treatment, mainstream medicine doesn't know what to do. Is that something you've experienced personally,

Dr. Paul  22:34  
I did not experience that with the medical profession. And that's probably because I speak their language. And I didn't experience that with my friends again, because they got to see what I went through and see what my kids went through. So I think it would be very hard for them to say, You're crazy, because they saw it. And, and I also went to the right, practitioners. So you know, I was in the Bay Area. So I was lucky to have Dr. Song. I think she's a pretty well known integrative pediatrician to work with, I worked with Dr. Sears for a little bit when I was down in Southern California. So I didn't that I have seen that in the community, for sure. And I've experienced it when I'm out there, you know, protesting, I've got my signs and, you know, big giant men coming up to me and pushing me and spitting on me and telling me I'm, you know, I hope my children die because I'm killing other people. So I've experienced it in other ways. But I did it with the medical community. And I, again, I think that's just because I speak the language.

Stephanie Sur  23:40  
So you moved to Oregon, and looks like you immediately became pretty involved. I am overwhelmed with the amount of work you're doing for medical freedom in Oregon. How did that transpire? And share a little bit about this. And for folks who are listening, the principles that you're fighting for apply for every country in every state. But what was that process? And what have you been up to?

Dr. Paul  24:06  
Yeah, so I had already been in touch with Oregonians for medical freedom when I was in California, because we were simultaneously fighting similar bills. And when I arrived, I just kind of jumped in and said, Okay, guys, let's have a meeting. You know, tell me who everybody is telling me how it works. I was shocked to find out there's no term limits for Oregon, Senators and Representatives. And so there was a lot I did have to learn because states are a little bit different. And immediately I met with my senator who's Senator Knope to talk to him about vaccine injury and what was going on with COVID because I moved here during COVID, which opened my eyes even more to just how far this corruption can go and got involved with children's health defense who I had also been working with in California. There was no chapter here in Oregon. And so myself and Catherine Green that started making an Oregon chapter. So I'm the vice president, and she is president. And we have lots of board members now. And started just immediately meeting with people and trying to educate them and learning all the people in Oregon. And this last summer, I decided, you know, let's stop being on the defense. And let's get on the offense. And how do we do that? Let's write some bills, and see if we can get them sponsored and made law. So through my connections with Oregonians for medical freedom, they have a lobbyist, and I was able to write I wrote, I think it was about 16 bills. And of those, I think it's 1111, that we were able to get sponsored, one on the House side, and all the rest are on the Senate side. So they have bill numbers, and they have sponsors, and they're waiting to be heard in committee. So that's the big push right now, as if they don't get dates to be heard by Mark 17. The bills are dead. So we need everybody to call and write an email and get those bills heard.

Stephanie Sur  26:16  
So so this is the part of politics that just baffles me. So you have great ideas. I mean, I, what are some of the big categories that you're trying to highlight in these bills? For example, just name a few.

Dr. Paul  26:30  
Yeah, so not having any vaccine passports of any kind, whether it's, you know, COVID vaccine, or if they down the line decide they want to have it be measles, or, you know, hepatitis, whatever it is. So, no discrimination based on you know, your medical history, or vaccine status.

Stephanie Sur  26:48  
And why is that important?

Dr. Paul  26:51  
Well, you know, we're, we're all entitled to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, to hold jobs to participate in society. And if you have to have some sort of proof that you are, quote, unquote, immune to something in order to be a part of society, you know, they might as well just put you in prison and starve you. So to me, it's a fundamental right, given by the powers that be not your government, and for them to come in and say, No, you can't participate, because you haven't done, what we want you to do is just so morally wrong to me.

Stephanie Sur  27:24  
Yeah, I grew up in Southern Africa. And of course, when I was there, apartheid was still strong. in Rhodesia, it was very similar. whites only drinking fountains and swimming pools and restaurants, etc. Like it used to be a long time ago, even not that long ago, in the south, in the USA, in South Africa, under apartheid, you had to carry papers to be able to move into the white areas, folks, is no different than that this is like a slave passport, to have to show papers that you've done what the government wants you to do that. It just flies in the face of everything that speaks for freedom,

Dr. Paul  28:00  
right? Yeah, I have a South African family too. And so I remember what they went through, and my uncle who was a teacher, you know, as white, but he was supporting, you know, the blacks, and he wasn't able to get a job at all, because they saw him as the enemy. And so it was, it was really tough. I remember. So yeah, things are different now.

Stephanie Sur  28:26  
And I might highlight one other thing, too, because we talked earlier. And you know, that's for that sort of for the greater good concept. Well, it's our social contract, we need to get these vaccines in the case of what we're talking about here to protect others. Well, you infect others when you get infected. And all the data that's looking closely at vaccination vaccine is showing that it's the highly vaccinated who are getting infected more and actually infecting others. That also holds true for COVID. So actually, you're discriminating against the wrong group, the anti Vaxxer actually protecting the vaccinated because the unpacks don't get sick, relatively speaking. So the whole thing is upside down and total nonsensical. So I couldn't agree more. And I think around the world, people are realizing this and fighting this sort of passport concept, this digital ID where we're I mean, surveillance society right now it's, it's fairly active in China and there are other places that they're in activating this, and we need to fight that because that's the beginning of the end of our freedom.

Dr. Paul  29:36  
Absolutely. And you know, not getting a COVID vaccine is just one of 1000 choices I make about my health. I think there's this misunderstanding maybe by people who are so ingrained in that vaccine, you know, area is that I take vitamin D I eat organic, I do detoxification you know, I am spending in my family, we spend a lot of time and energy on our health. So we're not just sitting around eating McDonald's, hoping we don't get sick. And you know, we're really working hard to try to make sure and I think everybody in this community works really hard to be healthy. And to, that's my social contract, like, I'm taking care of myself and my family. So I'm not going to end up in the hospital putting a burden on anybody, and they're not going to get as sick. And I feel like that's how I hold up my end of the bargain is by being as healthy as possible, not leaning on everybody else's decisions to make me healthy. So that's

Stephanie Sur  30:35  
personal responsibility is huge. And yeah, thank you for doing that and highlighting that fact. Okay, so what other bill general areas or have you been working in? Because I think this is so pertinent for everybody listening, no matter what state you're in? what country you're in?

Dr. Paul  30:52  
Yeah, so some of the other bills are things like having to have parental consent and medical record reviews prior to any minor being vaccinated. I think that, you know, it's having a pharmacist come along, who doesn't know anything about your child's history, and just giving them a vaccine not knowing? Did they have a reaction when they were two months old, and that child's not going to remember that if they're on their own at a school clinic, like, oh, all my friends are getting this shot. And I want to be cool, too, and get it? Have you had any vaccine reactions? If they even ask that question, that child is probably not going to know. So that's one of my favorite bills is the one and there's one copy in the House side and one copy on the Senate side that I hope goes through because it'll be so important to protect our children from peer pressure. And from sort of that medical establishment that thinks that, you know, it's just water, they're just giving them an injection of water, and it's all health and, and no downside. Some of the other things are so important

Stephanie Sur  31:51  
before you pivot away from that when I've had two young ladies in their teens, I think 1516 year olds when I was still practicing, who came in with chronic neurological problems, I mean, one could barely walk, and she'd been an athlete. Actually, both were athletic girls, and had severe neurological problems, couldn't figure it out. They'd seen every specialist in town, neurologists, et cetera. And I finally asked, I said, Did you get any vaccines at and in both cases, the mom was not aware that they had gotten the HPV at school. And lo and behold, I mean, we know the HPV does these things that that shot is quite dangerous prior to COVID. It was, I think, the most dangerous shot on the schedule, which they're still pushing. But that's why your bill is so important. I mean, parents know, have a recollection of what's been done. And when they aren't aware, they didn't even know to think about vaccines as a possible cause of the symptoms these girls were having.

Dr. Paul  32:47  
Exactly. And I think cutting the parents out of these decisions, and out of the knowledge is just so damaging to the family unit. And, you know, it's important for us to have a say in what our minor children do. I mean, their brains aren't even fully developed till 25. If they can't drink, they can't vote, they can't rent a car, you know, why should they be able to make these life changing, you know, medical decisions on their own, it's, you know, we put it into the body with the intent that it will change their immune system for the rest of their life, you know, the goal would be one shot, and you're done forever, right? So it's very important that the parents be a part of a completely altering life changing decision. agree more. Yeah. And then one that I thought you would like is, you know how, how much trouble people got into for prescribing certain unnameable medications during COVID. And pharmacists were getting in trouble for dispensing it. So it's a bill that says any off label drugs can be prescribed with no medical board complaints possible to either the practicing physician or the pharmacist. So I thought that was important because when do we not let doctors just be doctors. This is the first

Stephanie Sur  33:58  
time that's huge. I know, Tennessee passed a bill where you could get ivermectin over the counter under certain circumstances, without even needing a prescription. hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin have been so well studied their safety records incredible. And yet, there was this massive push. I mean, here in Oregon, it was near impossible to get your hands on these potentially life saving very inexpensive and useful treatments could have saved so many lives. I'm so glad you're doing that. And other states and countries need to there are countries in the world where it's easy right to get get these medications. Africa India even I think Mexico, places where their their outcomes actually were far superior to that to our own here in the US where we were forbidden to use these life saving simple, safe medications.

Dr. Paul  34:49  
Yeah. breed for sure. I feel like had we done a better job with early treatment, we would have probably saved I don't know. 80 per send other people we lost. And that's just to me, devastating and so wrong. So, yeah, I know. But those are kind of the big ideas, medical freedom, no pass boards, prescribe what you want, you know, get informed consent and stop governors from having all these emergency powers, you know, get the legislature involved, if you're going to make big decisions, you should have, you know, the whole legislature where we, in theory should be able to call our legislators and say, yes, we want this or no, we don't and have them vote accordingly. So just trying to look at mask mandates. You know, it it covers, it covers a broad spectrum of all the atrocities we saw last three years.

Stephanie Sur  35:40  
Yeah, absolutely. So the process just so I can be informed. And I imagine it differs a little bit state by state and country by country. But you know, you, you've got to write the bill, which you've done a lion's share of that work for here in Oregon. And then, like you said, it's got to get past the committee or, you know, into

Dr. Paul  36:00  
the next next step is, you submit that Legislative Concept to the attorneys that work for the State of Oregon, up at the Capitol, and they write those bills in a way that makes them legal. So if there's an Oregon code that it applies to, they say, you know, oh, Rs, dot three, five, whatever is now going to read like this. And then once you've got that, it gets a bill number, then you go collect yourself some sponsors.

Stephanie Sur  36:28  
Gotcha. So you got a number of them through that process, right? Like you don't have, it's not a guarantee that you can get them to do that.

Dr. Paul  36:39  
Now, I had four bills, one of which was going to remove Oh ha as the governing body that gives medical exemptions and return it to the physician. So the physician says, That's it, you know, need Oh Ha, to put a rubber stamp on it. And that one, we couldn't get written in a way that would not have been, I thought maybe detrimental. So it the you got to kind of play back and forth with these attorneys and try to get it written so that the intent stays the same. And they'll say things like, oh, you can't do that, because the Oregon constitution says X, Y or Z. So that can't happen. You'd have to have a constitutional amendment, which is a whole nother process. So some of them we just shelved for now, but 11 of them got through.

Stephanie Sur  37:28  
Wow. So you've got 11 bills, and they have sponsors? Yes, they all have sponsors. So so my recollection is now comes the hard work, you've got to raise a ton of money,

Dr. Paul  37:39  
no, donate any money. That would be for a ballot measure. So if you wanted to put something on the ballot for Oregon Oregonians to vote on in the next election, that would definitely be where you need to raise money to do that. So this after that has a sponsor, it gets assigned to a committees, most of ours are assigned to like the health committees because they're related to health or education. And then you have to bug the Senate Health Committee chair and vice chair until they give it a hearing. And once it has a hearing, which none of ours have hearing dates yet. So that's step one, then you can start testifying and collecting people to write in and give their testimony and call everybody who's on that committee and say, vote yes, on this bill and just slam them. I mean, it really does take an avalanche of phone calls and emails to get things done.

Stephanie Sur  38:33  
Okay. And of course, if you're in a state like Oregon, California being similar, highly democratic, and the Democrats have really kind of, I don't know, unanimously practically shut down anything that allows medical freedom? How do we overcome that barrier,

Dr. Paul  38:53  
they are afraid of not being reelected. So it has to be, you know, you vote yes, on this bill, or I will work my you know, bottom off to make sure that whoever runs against you in the next cycle wins is that the thing that they are most scared of is not being reelected. And, you know, the more postcards and phone calls that they get, and the more you know, meetings, you sat with them to just say, Hey, this is an important, you know, issue to me, you don't have to come to them with all the data. And you know, you can just say this is important to me, and you are, you know, my elected official, I'm your constituent, and I want this here in Oregon. You can, you know, leave it up to me and my people to bring them the data, but really just the pressure is what they need from all of us. Yeah, I what I do is I make an email and I just cut and paste it and send it every single day. So I don't have to do it's not a lot of work. I just resend it resend it. And I'm just that little thorn in their side saying give this bill hearing.

Stephanie Sur  39:53  
Gotcha. I think you brought up a great point. You know, government works for us, or at least they're supposed to And we're not going to get their attention when they have an agenda unless they feel threatened to lose their seat because then they've lost their power. So as we can gather people who will become like minded, I think, you know, the fact that the COVID Jab was added to the childhood vaccine schedule. We're at risk now to having that being mandated, because they can because it's on the CDC childhood schedule. And I think enough of the population is becoming aware that we've got a problem with that job. And so they're gonna stay on this push this through and where we want to support vaccine mandates, we may have enough people to say, then you're out make that a voter issue for these candidates, and are we doing anything to highlight where different candidates stand on that position?

Dr. Paul  40:50  
Yeah, before each election, Oregonians for medical freedom does a great job with this, they will send out a questionnaire to everybody who's running and ask them, I think there was like, 50 questions on the last one, and then they grade them based on those answers as to how well they fit into our medical freedom, you know, arena, and they can support them because they have a PAC so they can support them financially. But I agree, I think we're turning into a voter bloc. And I think that they, I mean, you probably remember 10 years ago, people would ask you what is medical freedom? Now we hear it coming out of legislators in Congress, and you know, all over the world, people are using this term. So I do think we are stronger than we think we are if we get active problem is, you know, 90% of the people who who are believers like we are aren't doing anything, and only 10% are, and in order to make a difference, we've got to get that to be at least 30. I mean, to be great to have 100%, but at least 30% of people being really active and it doesn't take a lot, you know, you can do it on the weekend. A lot of my friends who are afraid to call legislators would do it on the weekend, because you can leave a voicemail and just say, vote no on, you know, this bill, or I want you to vote yes on this. And you know, those staffers have to tally every message that's left and every email that comes in, and then they show that you know, to the legislator and say, look, we got 5000 phone calls that said, we don't want this bill or we do want this bill. And you know, there's ways to do it, where you don't have to put yourself out there too much. And you can still make a difference.

Stephanie Sur  42:24  
Gotcha. Now that makes sense to me. Because I often, my thought was just because I'm doubting Thomas. You know, if I send 100 postcards over 100 days or whatever, they're just going in the circular file, but you're saying they do have to tally those?

Dr. Paul  42:39  
Do they do what is required for them? So folks,

Stephanie Sur  42:43  
there's our call to action? Where can people go here in Oregon, to get the information of how to what to do, right?

Dr. Paul  42:53  
Yeah, so we made a coalition with a bunch of different medical freedom groups. And we have a website called unite Oregon now. And we have a call to action page on there, that tells you all of these bills that we think are important, and exactly what to do. And we've provided, you know, the emails on their phone numbers on there. So it's really easy, you can just click on it and send an email. And we tell you exactly what to say like step one right now is all of those bills need to have hearing date. So just bombard you know, the chair and vice chair of each of those committees with a simple email that says I put them all in there, like, give SB 666 Give us the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, hearing dates, and I just press Send and so unite Oregon now and we're going to as the bills hopefully get heard, they'll move really fast. So it may be like, oh, you know, there's a hearing tomorrow. We need everybody to go today. And you know, submit a written testimony or if you'd like to, you can sign up and give oral testimony. I never can. I'm always in the office. But if you can, that'd be great. So that is going to be sort of our home base for putting out calls to action. You know, we used to use Facebook, but they've taken that away from us. So now we have to have other ways to reach each other quickly.

Stephanie Sur  44:11  
Fantastic. Do you happen to know where folks in other states can go to get information about what's going on in their state?

Dr. Paul  44:21  
Well, I think one of the places I always go to is children's health defense because they will have all the latest going on in each state and viic is another great website where they have all the legislation that's happening in every state listed so good bills and bad bills daily

Stephanie Sur  44:40  
powered by Information Center NVC National Vaccine Information Center it's dot org.org. Yeah, great resource also on whether or not your state has exemptions and so yeah, yeah, and I cut you off. Sorry, you were gonna split. That's okay.

Dr. Paul  44:53  
And daily clout IO, which is Dr. Naomi Wolf's site, she always has stuff up there. about bills that are going on and, you know, around congressional to stand for health freedom does a great job of looking at what's going on federally, because that's important as well. There's some good bills and some bad bills right now in the in the federal arena. And it's important to keep that in mind too. Because federal always Trump's state, you know,

Stephanie Sur  45:19  
fantastic. So let's, as we get close to wrapping it up, let's get back to more the listener who's, who's maybe not quite sure about vaccines, and they've got kids and they're wondering what to do. You're a mom, you know, always first and mom, right? Yeah. Speak to the other moms and dads out there about what you feel is on your heart, they should be focusing in on for their kids?

Dr. Paul  45:47  
Well, I think, um, do your research, I think it's really important to figure out, you know, what will work for your family, and every family is going to have a different journey. So I spent a lot of time, you know, first looking at home birth, and what is the whole pregnancy journey, and then I started looking at, you know, what I want to do with my kids. And I think it's important to listen to your intuition, and to listen to your heart and make sure that you're following both of those things, not just what your mom said she did, or what your friends are doing, and the pressure that you may be feeling from society. Follow your heart and you know, listen to that intuition that that intuition has saved me many times with my kids, and I just am very thankful that we're born with that, and that their little cells migrated into my heart when I was, you know, just dating them, and that I could feel that and really know, but it can be hard, you have to drown out a lot of, you know, the negativity and a lot of the societal pressures, but I think you do, if you do what your heart tells you to do, you'll always be led down the right path.

Stephanie Sur  46:59  
Thank you for that reminder. I intuition. Is that just that sense, right? It might just be a thought that comes to you and you don't know where that came from? Because it wasn't your typical thought. Right? I mean, when you watch TV or the news, you're just hearing, you know, mainstream top down. Propaganda, honestly. But when you have that little thought, that's you have to listen to that. Or you just a feeling, right. It's a heart. It's a love thing. Mama bears moms when you're carrying that baby. You just know, right? I mean, through the ages, moms have known something we're not supposed to do our pregnant is taken toxins. I mean, it's just kind of intuitive. Eat right, eat healthy, live healthy, and stay in a joyful, loving state. That's not what mainstream medicine does anymore. Right. So your intuition should be guiding you towards, you know, doing less and loving more. I I'm so glad you brought that up. So, so important. How do we deal with family, though? Who are drinking the Kool Aid, if you will? I mean, they're just listening to news. But you know, it doesn't matter what channel you turn on. It's the same script, their reading, and where are they getting that script? While it's from the big money, institutions and concerns? What are your thoughts for how to deal with family and friends who maybe aren't, aren't on the same page?

Dr. Paul  48:30  
Well, my, my parents and my sister are not on the same page as me, although they do believe in choice. And these past three years have been really very difficult for me with them. I maybe didn't handle everything the best a lot of it was, you know, okay, maybe I just won't talk to them. Because I don't have anything nice to say. And they're not going to be supportive, maybe it's best to do less talking. And so that I do regret that happened the first couple of years now, things are a lot better. But I just tried to make it all about, you know, choice, like you are entitled to choose whatever you want, I would never take away your choice. If you want to get the vaccine that's up to you. But you should be informed and I shared a lot of information with them. And we came to the common ground of your right my body my choice. If I believe that in all arenas, I have to believe that in this one as well. And with friends, I just always made it about choice like you are entitled to whatever you want to believe, and I'm entitled to what I want to believe, and let's just make that the common ground. And I did spend a lot of time finding my own tribe. I needed to be with people who were supportive and who you know, also believe in the same kind of, you know, personal responsibility for health that I do. And having that that foundation and being supported in that way. And not just being surrounded by people who were negative towards my decisions, I think was one of the best decisions I made. So I didn't cut people out of my life, per se. I just said, here's our common ground. And let's just talk about other things. And this. That's it.

Stephanie Sur  50:19  
Yeah. That's such a hard topic. I've had that also. And like I have a grandson coming is going to be born next month, probably if he comes at the right time. And, you know, my son's pretty aware of my stance and is fairly on board with it, but his wife's not, it's like, oh, it's like, so difficult. Because, you know, I haven't always said it the correct way, right. So I put my foot in my mouth a little bit by being too maybe overbearing and aggressive about my information, I just want you to have this information, and then go overboard. So yeah, allowing people to make their own decisions. But how do we also leave the door open so that we're available to them when they need help if they need help?

Dr. Paul  51:08  
Yeah, I don't think I did that with my sister. So I think that my niece who's now having a lot of a lot of issues, and may be related to the decisions that they made, and she doesn't want to talk about it with me. So when she's ready, I think she will, with other people. However, I think, in telling my story and sharing my story, when they have had things happen, they have come to me and said, I remember you telling me this about your daughter or yourself. And, you know, I think I might be having something similar going on, you know, can you share some information, some resources with me, and I just sort of share some resources, you can start here, this may be something you want to look into. This is what heavy metal toxicity looks like, these are some of the ways you can, you know, treat it, have you taken gluten out of your diet. So I think it's harder with family sometimes than it is with other people. But I just say, you know, I'm here for you, if you want to talk about it, or if you need any advice, or if you want to bounce off what the doctors are saying to you with me. So I can give you some, you know, other alternative, you know, things you could do that sort of how I've done it. But I think sharing our stories in those intimate circles is important because it allows people to come to you when they've had an issue and says, Do you think that this is something similar?

Stephanie Sur  52:36  
Hmm, very well put people relate to stories. And so sharing stories, asking them questions and just being available. That's good. You brought up something that sort of rang true for me. And that is this, this needed really, to sort of distance ourselves from people who are who are just negative about our personal choices when we really know what we're doing. I know, they feel like they know what they're doing. So we have to honor that true. Somebody asked me recently described neural synaptic pruning. And, you know, I was thinking, the biochemical what molecules are doing what, and I got a little lost in the weeds. But then I was, I was reading a meditation just this morning, about our personal spiritual pruning, and how, you know, we really, if you think about a vine that's going to, you know, bear fruit, and you you prune those branches that are going to make it less able to really flourish and produce good fruit. And I think that's how neuro synaptic pruning is. And that's how we need to be with our lives, if we're going to really reach our full potential and accomplish everything we're supposed to be accomplishing. Yeah, there's some things we may need to sort of distance ourselves from. And so yeah, it rang true. Well, I'm gonna let you have the closing words. What would you like to tell our audience and thank you, again, so much for being on the show?

Dr. Paul  54:07  
Oh, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. I think I would say you have more power than you think you have. Don't be afraid to reach out and let your opinion be known. Just it's really simple. Make a phone call, send an email, tell other people to get involved. I think if we all work together, we can really change Oregon, I really feel like it is the people here are kind of a laissez faire attitude. And that's starting to get diminished. And if we all work together, we can come back and say, we're going to all live and let live and this is what it looks like. So please get active. Please make some emails and some phone calls. Because we can do this and we can protect ourselves so that our children don't have to take this fight up. Let's finish it with us.

Stephanie Sur  54:55  
Amen. And no matter where you are, what state or what country you are in the same Boat, you are needing to link arms with those who are on the same page, and we're going to change the world together. Thanks for watching.

Dr. Paul  55:12  
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world. It's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.