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​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Fung the with the wind science revealed formerly against the wind doctors in science under fire. I've got a show for you today with two interviewees. The first is Dr. Kevin stillwagon. He's been on the show before, he is a master of making it clear what's going on with our immune system. And he explains in this episode, how our natural immune system handles viruses like influenza, RSV, and COVID. Really good stuff, you don't have to fear anymore. Once you listen to the show. The second interview is with Attorney Alan Phillips, he's tackling a really tough one. Vaccines in the context of custody disputes. You're not gonna want to miss it. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart, what can we offer others? These are crazy times we've lived through these last couple years. And I feel like I just want to connect and be of service and somehow help everyone that's around me. We're shifting, we're shifting from a fight approach to one of love. This is the greatest gift we share. It's our joy in life, our sense of peace, our well being. It hit me this does most New Years, that I've got a lot of things I've got to work on on myself. And sometimes often is just physical. But as we brought to you with kids first forever, and we're gonna roll out for you this program. It's physical, its mental, it's emotional, and it's spiritual. These are all areas that I need to work on. And I urge you to join in that this is a great opportunity to just do a little bit of selfish self care, we've got to put ourselves first so that we're there and available in our best form for those we love those who are in our world, those who cross our paths. So we want to extend and expand our circle of love. Let's be calm. In the middle of a storm. I say we reject fear. Let's embrace love, light, God, if you will. And then we no longer have to do this alone.

Welcome Dr. Kevin stillwagon. I remember when we were at a conference together not too long ago, having an incredible meal with you and getting to know you last time you were on this show you gave the best discussion of how our immune system works than I think I've ever heard.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  2:39  
But it's my pleasure to be here and talk to you all I really liked you because you have an open mind, you have a very loving soul. And you're you're, you're open to most most new ideas. And that's, that's fantastic. And you know, I don't have a string of letters behind my name, but I kind of do have a way of explaining, you know, hard concepts like the immune system and a simple way. In fact, I just got back from Canada, I did a 12 city tour through the provinces of Ontario and also Nova Scotia 12 nights in a row packed houses every night. And these people were just thirsting for the knowledge on how the immune system actually works. And it's so important to understand that because if you don't understand it, you get fearful. And that's the weapon that the government and the pharmaceutical industry uses. They scare people, they scare people into doing things that they really shouldn't be doing. And so my my objective is to try to teach people how that immune system actually works can protect you from becoming infected by anything, and it doesn't involve antibodies. And that's what's really so cool about this whole thing.

Dr. Paul  3:55  
No, absolutely. Well, before we get into the immune stuff, I'll remind our viewers, you are a doctor of chiropractic you we practice for a long time, and then you were a Delta pilot for over a decade, I believe. Right? Yeah. And actually 21 years 21 Two decades, and you actually got forced to retire in 2020 over this COVID and mask issue. Right. You understand the the ins and outs of the flight. You know, our airlines. I loved what I read that you wrote on November 19. The envoy incident and you wrote oh this is so brutal. I just have to read 7:41pm Central Time envoy flight 3556 became airborne from Chicago O'Hare Airport destined for Columbus, Ohio 18 minutes later the flight landed back at O'Hare Airport with unconscious Captain Patrick Floyd in the left seat he was taken to a local hospital pronounced dead I you know obviously you wrote a wonderful blog about all this but give me your your assessment on all this. What what's happened why What do you think's going on? On.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  5:03  
Well, as pilots were mandated to get this shot, and I believe it was done because of fear, and the and the idea that pilots needed to do this to protect themselves from becoming infected, and also to protect other employees, other pilots and passengers from becoming infected. We now know that that concept is absolutely false Fauci has admitted it, Deborah Birx has admitted it, and several other officials in the CDC have admitted that this shot does not protect anyone from getting infected, nor does it spread infection. But what it does do, and we know this is it sets you up for a myocarditis issue. This is known in the literature, it's actually being printed now on the vaccine package insert that's required to come with the shots. And Pfizer and Maderna both have what's called a biological licensing application that's required for them to get if they want this, this shot to be FDA approved. And in those documents, they are required to track out the incidence of myocarditis until the year 2027. So this shot is still experimental. They're still trying to figure out exactly what is happening after people get injected with this stuff. And we know that myocarditis can now be an issue. Now the problem that I have with this myocarditis is a lot of these cases are completely subclinical, there are absolutely no symptoms whatsoever. So we have the potential of having two pilots in the cockpit. Now, that got the shot, they might have myocarditis. And if they do, that's a very dangerous thing. Because all it takes to trigger a heart failure from a myocarditis incident happening in your heart. All it's going to take is an adrenaline surge, and just over excitement from something that might happen during the flight. Now, I'll tell you, Dr. Pol, aviation has been described as hours and hours and hours of boredom, interspersed with just a few seconds of Stark terror. And when that happens, that's when you get the adrenaline rush. And if you've got this subclinical myocarditis, it could in fact, shut your heart down. The reason is because the myocarditis is actually disrupting the normal electrical flow of energy through your heart, and you can't attack this on an EKG, even the pilot can't feel it, but it's, it's still there. And what it's doing is it's setting up what are called ventricular fibrillation that are very minor. But with that adrenaline rush, that's going to immediately call for an increase of the heart rate, and breathing and increased blood pressure. All of these things cascading on the heart, at one time can indeed cause ventricular fibrillation, where all of the little muscle cells are beating on their own, not in unison, the heart, the blood is not going to pump, and there's your cardiac death.

Dr. Paul  8:24  
And that's what's fun adult with you thinking

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  8:27  
that's what it is, that's that's the sudden adult adult Death Syndrome. It's from the second shot or booster shots, it's not necessarily that first shot that's doing it. And the reason is, because when you get that first shot, your body's reaction and the immune reaction to it is to create an antibody. That's that's what it does. So the shot is going to tell your the cells of your body to make a spike protein, right? That spike protein is going to be circulating in your in your bloodstream. And the normal reaction of the of the immune system is to create an antibody against that. And it does that and that's normal. But what's also normal is over time, those levels of antibodies will draw. That's completely normal. If we kept every antibody that we ever made, our blood would be so thick, we wouldn't even be able to pump it it would be like sludge. And so what's what's most important with the with this antibody production is not the numbers of the antibodies, it's the memory to quickly remake those antibodies. That's what's so important. And so we've got these people like Fauci and others that are in the CDC saying, Oh, look, your antibody levels dropped. We gotta we gotta get you boosted. We gotta get get those levels back up again so that you can be protected. Well, I'll tell you Right now that that is one of the most dangerous things that you could ever do. And here's why. When you get that second shot or that booster shot, what's it going to do? It's going to tell your body to start making spike proteins, again, billions of them. And when your immune system sees that, it says, Wait a second man, I already dealt with that spike protein, I made antibodies against it. And I have the memory to quickly make antibodies against that spike protein. So they should not be showing up in these numbers. But here they are, by the billions, something is wrong. So we're going to activate what's called the complement system, the complement cascade. What's that? Well, you've got about 15 quintillion proteins have 30 Different varieties that are circulating in your body, bodily fluids at all times. And when this system gets activated, it's literally like taking one match and throwing it into a box of matches, it takes off like raising, and it is hyper inflammatory. And it is very disruptive. And what it's trying to do is go after any of the cells that are making that spike protein or have the spike protein attached. And so when this happens in the heart, that's called myocarditis. And the dangerous thing about the complement system is it's very aggressive, it is hyper inflammatory, and it will not only kill the cell that has the spike protein on it, but it starts destroying normal tissue around those holes. And that's when we start getting the heart damage that's occurring with myocarditis. So that is one of the reasons why we're seeing the escalation now, of myocarditis issues happening after the second shot, or the booster shot. And, and these numbers are clearly evident, anybody could look it up, you can see it in the CDC records, that after people are getting that second or booster shot, that's when you start to see the escalation of these myocarditis issues. So the problem that that we're going to have, and I'm, and I hate to say this, but if we get two pilots that have myocarditis in the cockpit, at the same time, we're setting ourselves up for a potential disaster. Now, I gotta tell you, right, right at the front here, not every pilot that gets the shot is going to get myocarditis. Not every person who gets the shot is going to get myocarditis. And the reason is, because there is a lot of variability in these shots. And I'll just give you a few examples. Number one, where is the tip of the needle, when they push that plunger, it's supposed to be intramuscular only, it is not supposed to be in a blood vessel or a capillary bed, if it is the lipid nanoparticles, which are the vectors and the shots that deliver the mRNA that make the spike protein, those are going to rapidly spread throughout your entire body, and you have a higher chance of those lipid nanoparticles going right into the heart muscle and start creating spike proteins. Okay, so it depends where the tip of the needle is. Number two, you have absolutely no idea how many lipid nanoparticles are in that syringe when I push the plunger, and the reason is because they have to be mixed. And there's a very special procedure that's done. So the variability can be anywhere from 10 billion to 100 billion particles in that shot, and you have absolutely no control over that whatsoever. And the more you get, the higher your chances are of having myocarditis or any other adverse reaction. Here's another, not everybody is going to make spike proteins at the same rate, nor the same amount. And this has to do with the pH of the cells. It's the cells of your body now that are going to make that spike protein. And this is dependent upon the pH of the cell. The more acidic the cell is, the more spike proteins are going to be made. And this is entirely dependent upon diet and also uncertain medications that the person may or may not be on. So there's another variability factor. Here's another one, the presence of zinc in the cell. The more zinc that you have in those cells, the less spike proteins are going to be made. Again, another variability factor here was another one. When you get the shot, the less let's say it's a Pfizer or I'm a Darren a shot. The lipid nanoparticle is encapsulated in what's called polyethylene glycol. And they put that polyethylene glycol in there so that these lipid nanoparticles do not stick together. So if those lips, if if the polyethylene glycol has degraded or has not joined doing its job, you'd have the chance of being injected with coagulating goo, that could very rapidly cause a deadly heart attack or a stroke. And we've actually seen this happen. Here's another thing, the polyethylene glycol that's surrounding these lipid nanoparticles, some people already have antibodies against the polyethylene glycol. So if you do get injected with the lipid nanoparticles that have polyethylene glycol surrounding them, and you have antibodies against polyethylene glycol, they can actually block the delivery of the lipid nanoparticles, they never get to deliver the messenger RNA. And these are the lucky people, because they're the ones that are going to say, Oh, I had the shot. Nothing bad happened to me, or you're one of the lucky ones, because you didn't make enough spike proteins for there to be disastrous outcomes. So those are just a few of the vulnerabilities that we're talking about here.

Dr. Paul  16:31  
But you also mentioned the pH of the tissue and alluded to foods, what foods would be helpful in keeping the pH more alkaline,

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  16:39  
poly phenols foods that are very, very colorful, like blueberries, for example, and dark leafy colored vegetables. Those are those are high in what are called poly phenols. And those will help to keep the acidity level from being becoming too acidic. You mentioned zinc, for example, foods that are high in zinc include lamb, okay, pumpkin seeds, grass fed beef, chickpeas, or garbanzo, beans, pure cocoa powder, cashews, kefir, or yogurt, mushrooms, spinach, and also chicken. So those are very high in zinc. Another thing that's important is to get a lot of vitamin D,

Dr. Paul  17:31  
I think if our country or the world at large, Vitamin D is so inexpensive, if we distributed to every living person, a six month supply of vitamin D, adequate vitamin D, we wouldn't have had a pandemic,

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  17:46  
I agree with you, this would have been just a huge difference. And so here's the key, you gotta protect yourself from becoming infected. That's the key, how do you do that, you build up that epithelial barrier that separates the inside of you, from the outside of you. So that epithelial barrier starts with your skin, it transitions into your mouth, through your esophagus, intestinal tract all the way out the other end. Same with your nose, down into your lungs, all of that tissue is covered with what's called the epithelial barrier. So anything that's going to negatively affect your health has to get through that barrier, whether it's a bacteria or a virus, if it can't get through, you're not going to become infected, right. And so the key to this whole thing is build up that barrier, build up that fence, so that you can protect yourself from becoming infected. There is something called a mucosal IGA antibody is called a secretory mucosal IGA antibody, when you get a natural infection, these are protective antibodies that will be secreted out into the mucosal layer, and they will actually protect you from future infections. Now, the cells that we're talking about the protective cells that guard that epithelial layer, these things are absolutely magnificent cells in how they work. And there's three of them that we we need to talk about. One of them is called the dendritic cell. And this cell is the one that's most important because it actually can reach through that barrier and grab the thing that's on the outside, it pulls it inside of itself and chops it up into all of the protein parts that make it up all of them. And then it shows these parts to other cells of your immune system. And it says you recognize any of this stuff. And if the answer is yes, then cytotoxic T cells get activated, and they will actually destroy that cell. out that has the virus in it before the virus even gets inside of you see, that's how that works. That's protection of infection, and it does not involve antibodies. Another one is called the natural killer cell. And these cells are really wild because they don't care what the virus is at all. Their job is to continuously survey that epithelial barrier. And what they're looking for are these little things that all of your epithelial cells have. In fact, every cell in your body, every nucleated cell in your body has these things that are called MH C one complexes, that's major histocompatibility complex, these natural killer cells, their job is to continuously survey that epithelial barrier looking for those MHC complexes. Now, here's what happens. If an epithelial cell is infected with a virus, for a time, those MHC complexes go away, they disappear. The natural killer cell will instantly recognize that and will destroy that cell with the virus in it before the virus is even released inside. Again, that is protection of infection.

Dr. Paul  21:28  
So you talked about how important it is to have a intact or very robust epithelial lining. Yeah, what are the ways that we can on our own, sort of boost up our epithelial immune system where lining if you will?

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  21:44  
Well, we talked about two things. Number one is get your vitamin D levels up. And you can do that with sunshine and fortifying your foods with vitamin D. Another one that's critical is zinc. Because that epithelial barrier, that's where the viral replication is going to take place right there. So you want to minimize the effect of that happening with zinc. Another thing that's critical is to eat as much organic foods as you possibly can. But the reason is, because our food and water supply has become contaminated with what's called glyphosate. Another one that's very important is exercise. And I mentioned this, the last time we talk, you've got to do whatever you can to a role besides your body, you got to get those essential nutrients and the oxygen that that all cells of your body need. And the only way to do that is exercise, you gotta get that blood pumping, and you got to get it moving through your body so that all of those cells along that epithelial barrier, are well nourished. And any toxins that are there get carried away in the vascular system. And so I recommend that people at least three times a week, try to get your heart rate up to the maximum value is recommended for your age,

Dr. Paul  23:05  
you know, we certainly are seeing continued COVID Now there's RSV flu, people are worried what would be your best advice?

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  23:17  
Don't be afraid, you need to lose the fear. Okay. And that's, that's what I'm all about. I do an educational videos that I have on my ramble channel. And I've also been given the opportunity to actually teach the immune system, it's going to be an online course, that's going to be starting in January. And another good place to get education on your immune system and biology and all kinds of other things that will you know, smarten you up so that you're not afraid anymore is AIPAC dash edu.org. And that's a man you're very familiar with. Dr. James Lyons Wyler, he is a fantastic educator. He's got a programs there that you can sign up for almost on a continuing basis. They're not that expensive. And I mean, it's his graduate level stuff. Yeah. And so if you just expose yourself to courses on how the immune system actually works, and and where that protection of infection actually resides not in antibodies, that Fauci so wound up about everybody making. And when you learn that, then you lose your fear, say, and then you won't be enticed to run out and do something stupid, like inject something into your body thinking that it's going to give you protection. It doesn't. There is no protection there. It actually destroys that layer of protection. Remember, I said there has to be a perfect antibody that's created when you get this shot. Okay, your career Reading billions and billions of Spike proteins, it's your B cells that actually make these antibodies. It takes about two weeks to make a perfect antibody, it takes that long, because there are very, very precise communications that happened between the T cells, which got educated in the thymus gland, by the dendritic cells, the T cells are actually talking to the B cells to make absolutely sure that that antibody that's created will not attack proteins that are normally in the body. But what happens when you allow yourself to be injected with this stuff, and you start cranking out these spike proteins by the billions, those B cells can start cranking out suboptimal antibodies almost right away. And they are crappy antibodies, they can react to proteins that are similar to the spike protein. And we found several proteins in your body that are very similar to the spike protein. And one of them is called sin sittin one, since sittin one is responsible for the maintenance of a healthy placenta. And so if you've got this autoimmune problem going on, and it's blocking the production of sensitive one, you might not be able to get pregnant. And if you do, there's about an 80% chance that you're going to have a miscarriage.

Dr. Paul  26:32  
Yeah. And that here's we're hitting in the COVID vaccinated.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  26:35  
And here's here's the scary part, Dr. Paul, there's a memory to make that antibody that never goes away.

Dr. Paul  26:46  
That's on generation to generation. There's a new need for a control group. That is the most important control group we've ever had. I always had my unbox patients as my control group. Yeah. But now, even if you were unvaccinated in the past, if you don't take this COVID Jab, and you don't take any further jabs, because they're gonna just keep coming with nonsense. mRNA technology jabs UI, the new control group, because people who fall for this will absolutely suffer genetic damage, they will absolutely decrease their ability to have children. Cancer rates through the roof. I mean, yeah, on and on, right. I mean, it's just it's, you have to say no to to ridiculous things.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  27:32  
Yeah. And it does get incorporated into the human genome, we know that scientists have admitted that over half of the human genome was actually inserted by viruses. 10% came from human endogenous retroviruses, which are extinct viruses that don't even exist anymore, of course, and then a rest come from transpose ons, which are parts of virus genes that can be inserted into our genome. And there was a study that was done not very long ago, I'm sure you saw it, where they looked at the Pfizer shot, the bn, t 162. B two shot, and found that the genetic material from that shot was incorporated into the DNA of liver cells, quite quickly, it happened like within six hours. And so that gets into the, to the liver cell line. And so every cell, every liver cell now will continue to make that that genetic material and it changes the genetic function of those cells forever. And that in that one human body, but the danger is, if it affects either the sperm cell or the egg cell, that means that the new human created by the union of the sperm and the egg will have that genetic material in every single cell of their body, and it will pass on from generation to generation. That's dangerous. We're messing around. We're messing around with with DNA. Yes, it's, it's God's fingerprint man, you can't be can't be doing that. Now.

Dr. Paul  29:14  
It's pure folly, pure folly.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  29:17  
Yeah, because it's your proteins that determine how your body functions. And so we're using mRNA. mRNA is the message to make proteins. That's what it is. So it's making a protein that our body has never seen before. And our body is not do this one very well at all. I mean, you know, it's attaches to ace two receptors all through your body. The ACE two receptor number one is supposed to control your blood pressure. So if you got if you got all these spike proteins that are gobbling up your ace, two receptors, you can lose control of your blood pressure. Not only that, but when they start sticking to the walls of your arteries that causes what's called little micro clots. And over time, you're going to build up what's called ischemia. ischemia is the inability of the oxygenated blood to get to all tissues of the body. It's the first breakdown of what's called any pathological chronic disease. It takes two to five years for that to happen if you don't stop it from happening. And we can stop microclimatic we know that we can do that. But if you don't catch it, and you let this continue to escalate in your body, you will have a chronic pathology in two to five years. And we're already seeing that happen. We're starting to see chronic diseases pop up and young people that should never have these problems.

Dr. Paul  30:40  
Yeah, no, absolutely. Okay, so you, you, you scared the crap out of my audience. But that was,

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  30:50  
yeah, that was one of the first complaints that I got. When I when I first started blasting the internet with all of this real science, they're like, Stop scaring people. You're scaring

Dr. Paul  30:59  
people. So So but the knowledge is power, and you're giving us knowledge. So so take it the next step. Now, now that you've scared us all. And with regards to what we can do, we touched on already before, but instead, we can deal with the micro clots. So how,

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  31:18  
yeah, okay, well, there's, there's something called nitric oxide that your body makes nitric oxide has, is known to stop stuff from sticking to the walls of your arteries. And it's also known that if you have enough of this nitric oxide, that it will actually start to reverse what's called arterial or atherosclerosis. And that's pretty exciting stuff right there. So it increases the, the elasticity of your vessels is well and makes them more pliable. And so there have been people that have taken products, the increased nitric oxide that have noticed a significant increase in their cardiovascular health. And it's, it's very clear, one product that that I use, it's called cardio miracle. There are other products available, but cardio miracle is one that I know got tested. And they have shown there you go, there it is right there.

Dr. Paul  32:21  
Yeah, I've used it myself. So I'm guilty. Yeah, you can get a lot of your nutrients through food, and you're a big proponent of that. But sometimes you've just got to, I mean, it's hard to get enough vitamin D from foods, so you just have to supplement it.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  32:37  
No, and this is this is what I'm talking about aviation safety right now. So as this whole program started, we've got the situation where we could have to jab pilots, and I admitted that, you know, maybe they don't have myocarditis. Maybe they do, but it's subclinical. In fact, there was a study that was done at the end of 2021, December 2021. They won on and looked at over 1500 young male athletes in 13 colleges looking for if there was myocarditis that was showing up. Also, these guys got shot, because back then, I mean, it was mandated at colleges all over the place. And so yeah, they did find myocarditis. And the scary part was, they found out that 54% of the myocarditis that they found was completely subclinical, these athletes had absolutely no idea that they had dangerous myocarditis going on in their bodies. And they found that the only way to really find the myocarditis is to use a cardiac MRI. It's expensive to do a cardiac MRI, but it's the best way to find myocarditis. And so what I'm saying is, we need to start looking at these pilots and finding out if they have myocarditis or not. And if they do, let's keep two of them out of the cockpit at the same time, at least, probably they're probably they're going to be grounded anyway. I don't know what's going to happen. But, you know, the FAA or the airline's themselves have got to start booking. If you don't look for it, you're not going to find it. I mean, that's obvious.

Dr. Paul  34:19  
Right? Well, thank you for bringing that to our attention. And perhaps you're even poking at the airlines to make them aware of

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  34:27  
this. Yeah. Well, I am. I mean, this is a this is a serious issue. Call. One of these Airlines has got to step forward and take Steve Kirsch up on his offer. Steve curse, billionaire philanthropist has actually offered any major airline that is willing to do it. Steve said I will pay for the cardiac screening to find out exactly how many of these pilots have myocarditis issue that that obviously needs to be done. That's the first three off got a look.

Dr. Paul  34:58  
Well Kevin is out was a pleasure chatting with you. I know you're traveling, you're speaking you're coming from a hotel room with an airplane coming into your head. You know, you're out there helping helping humankind.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  35:12  
I'm trying. You are to Dr. Paul and I I so appreciate everything that you have done. And that will you will continue to do. I just watched your your last podcast with Diddy. And what you guys got in the works is amazing.

Dr. Paul  35:27  
Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna keep trying to do what we can. Good. All right. We'll see you on the road.

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  35:33  
Thanks. Thanks, Dr. Paul. Thank you enjoy your retirement. Thank you. All right.

Dr. Paul  35:44  
Welcome, Alan Phillips. Oh, my goodness. Is it wonderful to have you on the show?

Alan Phillips, JD  35:49  
Well, I am thrilled and honored to be here. What a great pleasure.

Dr. Paul  35:54  
People, many people on this show probably don't know you. They're your this is the first time I've had you on but you are one of the nation's if not the nation's leading vaccine exemption. legal expert. I mean, you've worked on this area for over two decades. You mentioned, I had no idea that there's like three dozen different legal exemption categories or subcategories. And you work with clients, attorneys, legislators, activists, nationally, you've published you do presentations, you and I were once together on stage in the US internationally on the vaccine exemption rights, pharmaceutical corruption, I was reading your article dispelling vaccination myths. And that was fascinating. Also vaccine custody disputes, why most lose and how they can win? Yeah, most notably, perhaps what I recall was horrified with was back in 2019, you were jailed for different times, for 79 days, and ended up being disbarred for your work in this in this area of exemption and reporting corrupt government officials, basically being punished for being a whistleblower. Sounds a little familiar. And they wanted to make an example of you. So others would, would be quiet and not enter the area that you were working in. And so you're, I'm really happy to know that you're continuing your ability to help others in this area of exemptions. Just by working with other attorneys, you're not the attorney, you're just an informed an educator, if you will, and that you've helped clients, nationally and internationally in this area, you have exemption manuals that are available for people to purchase, and you've got critical information that's not available anywhere else. So thank you for being on the show. Oh, and I just recently learned You're an incredible musician. I, if we ever get together, I'm not a musician, really. But I love music, of course. And I know you've advised over 175 family law attorneys nationally about concern, you know, parents concerns about disputes and vaccines, and not one of those attorneys really knew you before or what you were speaking about, but almost all of them 95% would agree with you after you help them with how to analyze the legal situation. So my goodness, thank you so much for being on the show.

Alan Phillips, JD  38:20  
Well, I'm delighted to be here, actually, the vaccine issue is the reason I went to law school in the first place. So I joke about it, frankly, Dr. Paul, I say, I'm a Business challenged and proud of it, because most of my work over the years has has been unpaid activism work. But I have gone deeper into the vaccine exemption world, as far as I know, than anybody else has done. And it turned out to be a lot broader and deeper than I initially anticipated. So let's dive into some of that today. I understand.

Dr. Paul  38:57  
Yeah, so one of the biggest challenges and people come to me all the time, what can I do? It's when you know, parents are divorcing or separated, and there's a custody dispute. And invariably, the vaccine issue comes up and invariably the parent who wants to do all the vaccines, sort of how it feels like they have the upper hand, and you've figured out some ways that can be helpful for those parents who, legally and one thing you wrote and I, I'll see if I can quote it correctly, what the judge needs to do is determine whether all concerned are in compliance with the law. If everyone is if the children get any required vaccines or are legally exempt, the dispute is over. There's nothing more a judge needs to do, or legally can do. That kind of was like Ha and yet, my understanding what I hear is that people are afraid to go to court and I don't know, you know, talk a little bit about how how this information applies. Is it just in the case of a divorce? Or is it much broader than that?

Alan Phillips, JD  40:05  
So well, there's so many parts and pieces to this and many parts and pieces to a complete analysis in any given case, but there are some very broad, maybe we can think of as overview points or aspects of this. So first of all, any matter involving the adjudication of minor children involving a lawsuit court case involving minor children, states all over the country in a lot of this, most of it is state law. And state laws do vary state to state, but this is highly consistent around the country, they all have what they call a best interests standard. And what this means is that when there's a conflict involving minor children now, I see this in my work up to this point, mostly with parents who are divorcing or already divorced, and they're arguing about whether the vaccine indicates or can be parents who never got married, but they're still having a custody lawsuit, where they're asking a judge to decide, are the kids vaccinated or not? The parents disagree. But this is saying these same concepts would apply in what are called dependency cases where maybe one party in the case is a parent or both parents and the other party is the state and they're deciding, are these parents neglecting or abusing the children? Does the state need to take temporary or even permanent custody of your children for the children's protection and so forth? So anytime you're dealing with the adjudication of minor children in civil lawsuits, and there's a question about vaccines, the concepts we're going to talk about here today will generally apply. But it usually shows up in divorce cases.

Dr. Paul  41:48  
Okay. Yeah. The other case that actually comes up that's real troublesome is when the state has custody, let's say you're adopting, or they've taken away your parental rights for one reason or another. Parents are going but I don't I didn't want my kids vaccinated in the state just goes ahead and does it.

Alan Phillips, JD  42:08  
Yeah. So the the fundamental overriding point that as far as I've seen up to this point in time, everyone misses. And let me sort of qualify this by saying I'm not smarter than all the attorneys out there. But I have something different than them. And that is that I'm the only one who has spent years immersed in this exemption arena. Right. And it didn't hit me right away, either. It was I was dealing with exemptions for a few years before this dawned on me. So it boils down to this. In adjudicating minor children, when there's a dispute, courts look at the evidence, and they make a judgment call what is in the best interest of these children, or child or whatever. And what I bring to the table that's new to everybody is vaccines are actually an exception to this best interest standard. It doesn't apply to vaccines. Now. Law is full of exceptions. That's nothing.

Dr. Paul  43:08  
Why to say that it doesn't apply, because it seems to me, I'm just going to play a devil's advocate for you here. Sure. It seems to me and Sorry, I interrupted you

Dr. Kevin Stillwagon  43:18  
that this, this, the judge,

Dr. Paul  43:23  
or the state or whatever, seems in most of these cases, to say no, it's in the best interest of the children that they be vaccinated, according to the CDC schedule as if that's the standard of care. So the parent who's wanting exemptions are wanting to do it differently than most other people do it are seen as dangerous or even neglectful.

Alan Phillips, JD  43:45  
Right? Right. And, and because of that, so first of all, courts do not decide the science. They weigh evidence. And the majority of the experts, medical doctors course all the state federal health agencies all support vaccination. So one of the first mistakes that the pro exemption parents make and it's a very reasonable mistake, it just happens to be legally incorrect, as a technicality. They want to bring in someone like you who an alternative medical doctor who understands the real science and bring them in and educate the court and come away having known like when their case, but now a court a judge understands this, and will never make those mistakes again, or what have you. The problem is, as I said, courts don't decide the science they weigh evidence and the weight of the evidence for every alternative medical doctor who knows the truth. I'm not saying the truth, isn't the truth. What I'm saying is that's not how the legal systems work. They don't decide the science they weigh the evidence and the weight of the evidence is how powerfully overwhelmingly unquestionably in favor of vaccines because the majority medical doctors, state and federal health agencies support promote vaccines Now, aside issue, the reason they do that is because of psychological manipulation. And we can talk another time about that topic if you'd like, because that is core and central to not only the current state of affairs, but what we have to address that our activities in communities are not addressing, to ever get to a real solution, all of this. But meanwhile, back at vaccine custody disputes, you can bring in an alternative medical doctor, you know, for most parents Anyway, great expense, and they'll tell the truth, and the court will say, okay, but you know, there's 1000 others here that disagree, right. And courts illegally, even if you have an aware Judge, I would argue, maybe playing devil's advocate, if that's what you want to call it, that even if the judge is aware, following the law, the judge has to do what the majority of doctors say, because that's where the weight of the evidence is. The vaccine issue is the only one where the legislature has already answered the question with specific state statutes. There are state statutes that saying who has to be vaccinated when with what vaccines, and sometimes they will delegate some of that decision making authority to the health department, but either way, it starts with the state statutes. And those details vary from state to state. But it all starts from the state statutes who has to be vaccinated and when and who can say no? And how, in other words, which exemptions are available? What's the procedure for those exemptions? There's something called statutory construction rules in every state, and that the federal legal system as well, that tell courts and the rest of us how to interpret statutes. And one of the universal rules in all of these different state and federal statutory construction rules is that if two statutes conflict, and if one of them is a specific statute, and one is a general statute, then the specific statute and here's this list of phrases I said earlier, supersedes the general or carves out an exception to the general or prevails over the general statute. Okay. So courts authority, their duty and authority to apply a best interest standard comes from a general state statute. Right. And that general state statute is superseded by the specific immunization statute. The legislature passes health bills, having looked at and listened to medical experts. And so the legislature is presumed to pass medical bills that address as best as we can public health policy needs, which includes the man's bill of childhood infectious diseases, they are presumed to pass laws that are in every child's best interest that are meeting the public health objectives that are safe. And the prevailing legal consensus is that states are not required to offer anything beyond medical exemptions. So if they offer religious or religious and philosophical exemptions, as is the case in some states, they do so voluntarily. And they wouldn't do that. Unless it was safe to exercise those exemptions. Because if the court is going to overrule or override an exemption if an exemption is already in place, the court has no authority to do that their only authority comes from these general best interest standard standards that are and statutes that are superseded by the specific immunization statutes, which include the exemption statutes, the legislature has, in effect already determined what's in every child's best interest in the state. So this is not just a technicality that allows somebody illegal technicality and allow somebody to leave a poor child vulnerable to infectious disease. The when somebody says you're exercising poor judgment, the response to that can be Well, I'm just doing what the legislature says I can do. And they wouldn't allow me to exercise an exemption. If it wasn't safe to do so. If it wasn't in my child's best interest, they wouldn't give me that right. Especially if it's a religious or philosophical exemption, because the state's not required to give you that

Dr. Paul  49:38  
right. And what kind of outcomes have you seen where it used to be 99% of the time, the parent wanting the exemption loses, but once folks get your once attorneys get your advice and counsel on this, what kind of outcomes are they getting?

Alan Phillips, JD  49:54  
Well, I haven't, that's a very obvious and reasonable question. I haven't tracked it I don't have a percentage for you. I will We'll say I've seen some of these cases when using these additional arguments. But these are very tough cases. And this gets in to actually a an aspect of what we were just talking about the psychological manipulation. There's this rare often seldom heard of discussed phenomenon in the medical community called

Dr. Paul  50:20  
natural immunity, that immunity.

Alan Phillips, JD  50:25  
Don't anybody hear you say that? Because, you know, the point, of course, is that exempt children can get immunity without even developing, I mean, without getting vaccinated, and in many cases well and developing symptoms the

Dr. Paul  50:37  
right I mean, COVID is illustrated that beautifully kids high immunity to a virus that was brand new to humankind, so to speak. I mean, we've had Corona viruses, but this right there SARS, cov, two was brand new, and yet kids did very well with it, many times not getting sick. So their system worked. So I mean, you're absolutely right.

Alan Phillips, JD  51:01  
So, excuse me, just to complete the point. Immunization policy is not concerned with the immune status of individuals, It's concerned with the immune status of groups to prevent the spread of infection through a community or group. And you don't have to know the immune status of individual children to achieve that goal, at least under the presumptive presumptions under which current policy operates, we can we can argue, the parse out whether herd immunity can even occur with vaccines and all for example, there are people who say might happen with natural disease, but you can't really get that with vaccines. But regardless, this is what policy is based on the legislature allows exceptions because a small number of exemptions is not going to undermine achieving our public policy goals. So when a court looks at an individual child and said this child, you know, has to be vaccinated, they are understanding the public health goals and purpose because it's not about the immune status of individual children. It's about the immune status of groups, which is achieved, as long as everybody is in compliance with the law either gets the vaccines or has the exemption, at least according to the public policy. Objectives.

Dr. Paul  52:24  
Correct. So, one thing I've noticed attorneys do in legal action when they're in the courtroom, sparring looks like a quite a battle sometimes is they will, quote prior judgments to support the case that they're trying to bring forth. So are there prior cases of success in in this exact situation? Because this is what my parents who are in this situation want to know, you know, who do I talk to? How can I get help so that I can save my child from being forced to get vaccines that I know are going to be dangerous?

Alan Phillips, JD  53:07  
CDC statistics that tell us children are not dying from his childhood infectious diseases. You can attribute that to vaccines if you want to, but the combination of mandates and exemptions is not leading to more children dying and even if it was, the legislature would have to fix that not the courts. But no one's dying from it. No children are dying for a child in infectious diseases. But there are children in every state. We have CDC, CDC statistics telling us how this plays out state state, there are children dying from automobile accidents from drownings and any number of other horrible and unfortunate circumstances. But the reality is the concern about childhood infectious diseases while valid is horribly exaggerated. So here's the point, you make a solid legal argument. But you point out that once we determine that everybody is in compliance with the law concerning vaccines, then anyone who's still concerned about the child's well being, as we all should be, let's look at these statistically greater risks. No one's dying from the childhood infectious diseases with our children dying from car accidents, and so forth. So if the children are young, let's make sure both parents are using the proper car seat and so forth. And my point here isn't to try to literally distract people from vaccines and get them sucked into something else. My point is simply to put this into perspective. Yes, infectious disease management and control is an important thing for society to do. But once we've done that, as the legislature has told us to do it, the bigger concern is these other things that are killing children in our stayed in every state, year after year after year. And my understanding, you know, continues to deepen my ability to present more clear, focused legal arguments, for example, has been improving. I think over the years as I've worked with more and more of these cases. So people coming to me, what I could do as a practical matter is, if their attorney, their local family attorney is open to it, I can do a consultation with the attorney and the parent, I don't have to have a license to advise an attorney. I sell educational manuals, exemption manuals containing information, as far as I know, some of it is just not available anywhere else. Nobody has. You never know it all, of course, and God willing, I will keep learning and I try to be open and keep, you know, improving on everything I do all the time. But, but there's nobody who has anywhere near the level of depth and experience that I do with exemptions generally with his family law cases in particular. So I do believe that I have information and insights you can't can't get anywhere else. So I believe I have something valuable there. I can present introduce these arguments to attorneys and in private phone or Zoom consultations, if they want my help beyond that, I can write draft legal briefs. I've done that dozens of times and probably roughly a third to half a different states. The concepts are universal apply across throughout the country. But the specific legal arguments, in part have to be citing law in the state where the case is taking place. Because these are state law cases, once you establish factually that a parent has an exemption in place, the only question is, can the court override the state exemption laws that I've seen are all worded in a way that allows one parent to exercise an exemption? And so I say, Judge, you're normally right. But you're talking about a best interest standard, which doesn't apply that that normal right where parents have an equal say, with exemptions, is superseded by the exemption law that as worded allows one parent to exercise exemption,

Dr. Paul  57:16  
right. But is it illegal for me to do that? I am I have equal rights for medical decision making. My wife doesn't want to vaccinate, I do. Is it illegal for me to go vaccinate?

Alan Phillips, JD  57:29  
If there's not a bit when parents have an equal say, on a matter, and they disagree, one parent cannot unilaterally make a choice and act on it. Unless there's a court order that says, you know, Dad, this order hereby gives you authority to go take the child get vaccinated, or some law that allows them to unilaterally go do that.

Dr. Paul  58:00  
Well, we're coming near the end of our time here, I would like people to know how they can get a hold of you if they'd like to get a consultation or purchase some of your information.

Alan Phillips, JD  58:11  
Yeah, for any kind of exemption issues or even my work, which I've gotten more and more into and to what I've touched on today on about the psychological aspects of this not just in childhood, child custody disputes, but the broader exemption in vaccine arena, people can contact me through my website, vaccine rights.com. And I have a free e newsletter subscription that's available at vaccine rights dot substack, SUVs TAC K vaccine rights.substack.com. And I welcome people to reach out if there's something I can do to help people I certainly will if not, and there's anyone I can refer them to. I will try to do that too.

Dr. Paul  58:55  
Thank you so much, Alan, you are a How can I say it kind of the tip of the spear when it comes to vaccine rights and vaccine exemptions and you've taken one for the team in a big big way. So I thank you for that. I know it hasn't been easy. Help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

Transcribed by https://otter.ai