SHOW 53: TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Paul 0:04
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire. Today's show I interviewed Dr. John Reisman. He is a psychiatrist who just completed a book called Conscious medicine an integral model of healing. We talk about the difference between conscious and unconscious medicine. It's powerful folks. We talk about the health continuum. But the important distinction between quantity of health and quality of health, between health and disability. And we also talk about the need for a parallel system. He's come to the same realization that I've come to that so many of my peers who you've heard on this show have come to the same conclusion that our current medical system is so broken, we can't even fix it, we have to build a new system. So we're all on the same page for you on that it's happening. I then finished the show with an interview with Ben Tapper. He is one of the disinformation 12. And oh, boy, let me tell you, we are unpacking the pandemic censorship and so much more. Enjoy the show.
Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. This memorial day, I had the privilege to be at depo Bay, Oregon. This is claims to be the smallest port in the world. And indeed, I think it might be this tiny little port with maybe 50 vessels at most, a couple of large coast guard ships, well, large boats anyway, that honored our veterans in the most amazing way. It was a sunny day, the ships gathered. And after they had their ceremony, they did a procession out under the bridge out to the ocean, made a circle. And then a Coast Guard helicopter comes in, drops within the circle, a large reef, and then all the boats put their Reese that they had carried out. These are wreaths honoring not just our veterans, but those who are lost at sea. You know, Newport, depot Bay and all the coast. towns along the Oregon coast have fishing industry. And periodically we lose people to boating accidents and tragedies that are related to poor weather. But I want to focus here also mostly on our veterans, those of you who have veterans in your lives, families who have chosen to serve our country, we've lost over a million in the years of all the various wars. These are sacrifices that were made for us, every single one of us living in America enjoy a level of freedom, not known by very many. What I'm concerned about is that medical boards, public health officials, elected governors, for example, with their various decrees emergency orders have caused a situation where we are now at high risk for losing the freedoms that have been fought for, and sacrificed for for hundreds of years. This is not the time for any of us to just rest on our laurels and think that everything's going to be fine. I do believe that we'll be fine. But it will be fine because we are going to stand and say no to all the forces that are trying to nullify the sacrifices made by those who went to war for us on behalf of the freedoms here in the United States. So it's just a message of hope, a message of freedom, but also a warning that we all stay vigilant. Something is going on. We've all felt it. We've noticed it these past two, three years. And this is not the time to just say oh, things are getting good again. It's time to really make sure we stand for freedom in every possible way. Thanks. I'm Dr. Paul.
Welcome Dr. John Reese, and man you are a guy that I've been wanting to talk to you ever since I stumbled on your book conscious medicine. Thank you. Yeah, you graduated from Loma Linda University Medical School, specialize in psychiatry, you've had an emphasis in functional medicine and have been in private practice in the Loma Linda and Redlands California area for 37 years, which puts us I'm guessing around the same era of medical school training. Out of curiosity, when did you finish medical school? 1981 Okay, yeah, you were a few years ahead of me, then. I remember doing my psychiatry rotation. Thinking that man, this is pretty easy. I mean, in six weeks, I figured out the few meds that we had back then and you know, there was stuff for depression stat stuff for bipolar, well, one or two things. And that was pretty much it. I think they'd gotten away from lobotomies at that point. And of course, we've had the DSM three, then four, then five, that Diagnostic Statistical Manual that's sort of your guys's Bible in psychiatry, and I noticed something about that and I'm going to have you talk about your journey. from mainstream traditional psychiatry training into functional medicine, because I think there's a parallel with my own. But I noticed that manual is all about labels. There's just a list of symptoms, you fit this diagnosis, boom, here's your diagnosis. And then you have based on that, here's these lists of pharmaceutical products to hopefully treat your symptoms. Right.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 5:21
You know, what's interesting is that in psychiatry is more so than most other parts of medicine, that the diagnosis is just a description. It doesn't in any way, indicate the etiology or the cause, right. And physicians are kind of deluded into thinking they're treating the cause when they're treating the diagnosis. But all they're doing is masking symptoms. Yeah, unfortunately, when they do that, the imbalance is never corrected. And so it's driven deeper into the Constitution. And it manifests itself in other dysfunctions and other organ systems, new diagnoses, a new round of pharmacotherapy.
Dr. Paul 6:02
I had a for a while I was doing addiction medicine as well. And I had a young lady come in, she was in her early 20s, on seven different psychiatric meds at young 20s. Like, Oh, my word, share, share with our audience a little bit about your journey. I imagine you started off medical school fairly traditional, and somehow you ended up in functional medicine.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 6:23
Yeah. And in medical school, I just started seeing things that just didn't sound right to me, because when I went into medical school, I thought I was going to become a healing practitioner. But it wasn't about healing at all. It was about managing disease. And when you manage disease, that's exactly what you're going to have. And so it's not it's disguised as healthcare, but it's really sick care. And so I started to you No, look outside that. And most of my colleagues pretty much canceled me when I asked the kinds of questions that sort of challenged the the narrative. So I started to collaborate with chiropractors and nature paths in the surrounding community. And we wouldn't refer to each other. And I started going to Holistic Health conventions, and went to the American Academy of environmental medicine. And then finally, the Institute for Functional Medicine, and start and discovered, this is what healing is all about. It's identifying the imbalance and correcting causes instead of just masking symptoms. And so that's what kind of took me in that direction. And then I was fortunate enough to have a medical group that allowed me the freedom to integrate functional medicine in my practice. And so I didn't get any problems from the doctors that I worked with in that group. But I was getting cancelled by doctors and surrounding community, when I started messing with their patients, and providing some improvement. For example, I had one patient who came to me who was referred to me by a GI doctor to treat for depression. And, and he had this gi disturbance for about two years. And I asked him, Have you ever tried probiotics and digestive enzymes? And he never had, so I suggested try that. He came back about a month later, and all his symptoms were gone. And I got a nasty call from the GI doctor asked me why I was fiddling around with his GI symptoms, he sent him to me to treat for depression. Aren't you happy that he's better? No, it wasn't. Now, on the surface, you might think he was angry because I was taking away his livelihood. You know, now this patient's not going to see me anymore. But it's more fundamental of that. And I think it comes out clearly in your case where the medical board went after you, because they claimed that you were a danger, when in fact, you were improving patients better than the conventional system. So your treatment might treatment, all the doctors that you interview who've been under fire. They're the results they get is an indictment of the sick care system. No one wants to think that they're causing more harm than good. And so what they're doing is actually projecting the harm on to you, when actually they're the ones who are causing it, but it's unconscious. Hmm.
Dr. Paul 9:10
That brings us to the title of your book, conscious medicine and integral model of healing. I think being conscious, I'd like to hear your take on this. What do you mean when you say conscious medicine versus unconscious medicine?
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 9:26
Conscious medicine is mindful healing. It's restoring balance by correcting causes instead of masking symptoms. Simple as that? Yeah. And unconscious medicine then is basically conventional Rockefeller Flexner Report type of medicine that that masks symptoms instead of providing cures.
Dr. Paul 9:49
Yeah. Maybe for our audience because this hasn't come up. Maybe but once in over a year that I've been doing this show. Explain what the Flexner Report was. I think it wasn't at around 1910 Something like that.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 10:01
Yeah, that's where it was supported by Carnegie and Rockefeller. And basically Flexner went around to all the medical schools and basically decided which ones were legitimate and which ones were quackery. So they closed all the homeopathic and naturopathic schools and have kept open only the allopathic schools that bought into the whole pharmaceutical paradigm.
Dr. Paul 10:25
Yeah, and poured a lot of money into those schools that would go along with their paradigm. Exactly. Yeah. So you have an interesting description in your book about legitimate science today being replaced by a religion masquerading as science. striking parallels with medieval Dark Ages. Wow, that's a powerful statement. expand upon that a bit.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 10:53
Well, when you think about it, what happened during the middle of the medieval ages, the the clergy expropriated reason, and disallowing man to think for himself. So they were the arbiters of truth. They were the Ministry of Truth. And they decided what people were to believe? Well, in our current day, the scientific clergy have expropriated the senses, and forbidding man to see for himself. They're saying, quote, We cannot believe our own eyes. And so they this whole thing about post hoc reasoning, that if a person improves from an intervention, you can't possibly know that was a result of the intervention. Okay, but the thing is, is if that's the truth, and we don't know that any of the approved treatments are the result of the intervention, either, it could still be placebo. So it's, so you have to be able to use your mind and follow patients systematically. You apply a treatment, they get well, you stopped the treatment, they get worse, putting back on the treatment, they do better again. I mean, that's that's the scientific method. But people think that if they apply a proven treatment obligatory that that's being scientific, it's not that's having faith in the studies. That's that's basically religion. Yeah.
Dr. Paul 12:13
Now, your your explanation took me right back to when I woke up to what was going on with autism. It was a thing that was so rare. I imagine when you were in medical school, do you remember seeing a single case of autism? No, no, I didn't either. I came by about three, four years after you and not a single case, when they wanted to teach us about disability and children, they sent us to a community of Down's kids. There, it just really wasn't around. So for me, it was in the early 2000s. It just exploded, and I ended up in my own practice having one case per year 2004 Or five, six, and seven. And it was just like, Okay, I can't keep doing business as usual. Have a normal one year old who's starting to talk has great eye contact, just regressing to nonverbal, spinning, and flapping and pain and GI symptoms. And, and, and just say, Oh, well, sorry, your kid has autism. Good luck. It just, it's insane that pediatricians, I imagined psychiatry and pediatrics overlaps a little bit in this area, actually. We're left with well try this in a psychotic or yeah, just nuts.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 13:22
You know, it's funny, because I've talked to one of our PT, the pediatric psychiatrists at Loma Linda and I was mentioned to him the connection between vaccines and autism, and he completely dismissed that said that, you know, well, the autism that usually begins about the same time period, it has nothing to do with the vaccines. So, in my mind, this is the the church of vaccinology. It's a religion. Yeah. Because they don't allow debate. They shut it all down. It's very dogmatic. And it's like, it's a doctrine that you cannot challenge.
Dr. Paul 13:56
Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's actually why I've been threatened with my license. The funny story behind that you may have heard it. They've been asking me since I wrote the book, vaccine friendly plan in 2016. But 2018 actually was February 2019. They they sent me a board request to prove that the CD that my vaccine friendly plan approach was as safe as the CDC schedule that promoted me to do a quality assurance project of every patient, born in my practice, published that data in a peer reviewed journal and five days after it was available online. They yanked my license as a threat to public health. We had incredible outcomes in the unpacked which was actually, it was a little shocking to me that the vaccine friendly plan, which is much safer, but even that was just horrible compared to unboxed. So,
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 14:47
again, that's an indictment of the sick care system. Yep. Absolutely. It exposed the weakness of the whole paradigm.
Dr. Paul 14:55
Absolutely. share with our viewers. So many people today With, for various reasons are suffering from what is traditionally called psychiatric problems, be it depression, anxiety, etc. Right? share briefly what you have found in functional psychiatry to be very helpful for folks who are struggling.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 15:15
Well, functional psychiatry, basically you do lifestyle interventions, and basic, assessing their diet, their nutrition, their exposure and exposure to toxic chemicals and so forth. And so some of the things that I've done is to evaluate, for example, is this person a good methylator. So I'll do you know, the the homocysteine tests, and the, the genetic test to see you know, how well they methylate. And, you know, if they come back as being deficient, then I'll, you know, recommend that they, you know, take nutritional support. Other instances, I'll check, a body burdened with toxic heavy metals. And I did a study of 100 cases, and virtually every single person had significant high levels of mercury and lead. And so basically, you know, recommend detoxification protocols that clean all that up. And as patients will do these kinds of things, all their medical problems, whether it be diabetes, or heart disease, or whatever starts to improve. Because basically, when you're intervening at the level of the system, all these other manifestations of dysfunction start to clear up.
Dr. Paul 16:28
Isn't that amazing? How, I mean, it's simple. It's not easy, right? Lifestyle changes are the hardest thing of all, giving up our soda or cigarettes, if you're a smoker, or alcohol, if you're a drinker, or trying to eat real wholesome food, etc. But it's simple. You just have to do it. And you're seeing I imagined amazing results.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 16:49
Yeah, but the thing is, it's, it's frustrating, because a lot of the, for example, nutritional supplements, they're not covered by insurance. And a lot of patients in my practice just don't have a lot of discretionary income. So if it's not covered by insurance, a lot of them wouldn't do it, and basically never got better. It's the ones who went ahead and decided to invest in their health are the ones who actually got better.
Dr. Paul 17:11
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You have to buy in and realize that our health folks, never before has it been more important is in our own hands, you cannot go to a traditional doctor. Allopathic, regular MD and expect to regain regular health if you're not healthy.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 17:30
You know, and I think when you're doing that kind of work, you need to be an example of what you're preaching. Yeah. So you need to be in good health yourself and incorporate all these lifestyle measures that you're preaching your patients to.
Dr. Paul 17:42
That's so true. I only had successes, I was having success in my own life to some extent. You have a term in your book, the insanity of humanity, and I can't remember what you were referring to.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 17:55
Well, Carl Jung said that the man is the great danger unconscious man. Because basically, man is in search of a soul. And he does all these things to destroy his home, the environment in which we live. And this that kind of thing is insanity. Why would any person destroy that the home that they live in? And yet, that's, that's what we're doing? And then the way that we treat one another, the way we treat our own bodies, all this stuff is basically insanity. It's, you think about all the wars that we've created, all the millions of people who've been killed. And this, this is considered normal. You know, so the insanity is essentially the psychopathology of the average. It's, it's, it's so ubiquitous, that people don't even notice it. Because it's considered normal.
Dr. Paul 18:49
How would you talk about the COVID thing we've been through the last couple years with that in mind?
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 18:56
Well, that COVID really exposed everything I talked to my, my book, but on steroids. I mean, I couldn't believe it. But the other thing that it introduced, though, is how palpable the evil was. It's not just insanity, there's, there's something evil to it. It's a spiritual war that we're in. And it comes back to this notion, well, then conscious healing is really a spiritual practice. It's all about bringing people back into harmony and balance with the environment, with their fellow man and with within themselves. And that's essentially what we need to focus on.
Dr. Paul 19:30
So Dr. John, you've touched on something that's been huge in my life the last couple of years, and this whole mention of the soul and the spiritual aspect of who we are. I think I had a lot from I don't think I know I had lost touch with my own soul. being so busy being a doctor and sure I was doing some good work, but I was on a treadmill and speak briefly about how one gets back in touch with their soul and with what's important
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 19:59
Well, I guess every person sort of has to find their own way. You know, it's gonna require a journey inward. And, you know, I had been under fire quite a bit during my practice. So I spent the 15 years doing research and reflecting and writing this book. And so you have to take time off away from you know, the treadmill, you have to get off that and just start doing some inner work. Journeying inward reflecting, if you don't do that, you're just going to burn out. And so many, you know, physicians I've run into have left the practice of medicine, they've started other careers, because they just couldn't take it anymore. Yeah,
Dr. Paul 20:47
I think for even non medical people, anybody living in this world today with the stresses that the COVID, the response to COVID really was what created most of the stress, the quarantines, the masking, the fear mongering, that there was just relentless focus, we all have got to take that time, as Dr. John says, and go inward, and be in touch with our real selves. I like something that you have in your book, I think I'd like you to expand on it a little bit, you talk about a health continuum. And I was wondering if you might sort of share a little bit about what that is and how you came to understanding that.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 21:25
So the health continuum is really shows levels of health or life balance, function versus dysfunction. So I came across this kind of continuum early on when I was going to some of the holistic health conventions. And if you see there's a red dashed line between the four and number five, so everything below that red dashed line is what conventional medicine is concerned with. And generally, you come into a physician, let's say, with a full syndrome at level two, and you're diagnosed with the disease and you're put on pharmacotherapy, such as, say diabetes mellitus, first diagnosis, or you might have partial symptoms, and you come in at the substance drummer level, let's say you're diagnosed with metabolic syndrome, which is sort of like a precursor, you still get on pharmaceuticals. And when you are taking drugs, it's all it's doing is suppressing symptoms. So you might feel well, but that's an artifact of symptom suppression. And that degenerative process is not resolved. And what happens is it progresses until relapse, or a new diagnosis appears. So the imbalance is not corrected, it is quiescent. And if you intervene above that red dashed line, you use basically health interventions, such as lifestyle prescriptions to enhance physiologic reserve, rejuvenate the body, and finally achieve the vitalised level, which is optimum genetic potential. Now, at this level, you have more resilience, you're able to fight off infections, you have better immunity against cancer and things like that. At this level, there's actually the body's more ordered, there's more, more complexity. And you can actually do physiological measures like heart rate variability, which indicate these higher levels. But below that red line, you're basically managing disease, it's sick care, and you have a loss of complexity. I get into this, I revisit this chart in my chapter on complexity, science and systems medicine. And what's interesting is that each one of these levels is also a level of physiologic setpoint, which means that it involves a state attractor around which fluctuation self organize. So as you go up the this health continuum, there's more order, there's more complexity and requires more energy. So it's really important to be able to make enough ATP to maintain that high level, which is far from equilibrium. It's a dynamic steady state, you go down in the other direction, you're reaching thermodynamic equilibrium. So what conventional medicine does, is they suppress symptoms, and by doing so, they may delay entry into the disability zone, they may actually postpone death, but it the end result is it's slow assisted suicide, because they're not doing anything about correcting the underlying imbalance.
Dr. Paul 24:42
This is so important, folks. Let's, let's pivot over to your slide on quantity versus quality. When it comes to your life, vitality and health versus disability,
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 24:55
yeah, okay. So, you know, most of the time we measure health outcomes in terms of The longevity, okay, that's the quantity of life. But what's really important is your quality of life. And so, lifespan, which is only quantity, it's one dimensional. But healthspan is two dimensional includes the quality of life. So whereas lifespan is the longevity of existence, healthspan is longevity of vitality. And that's what's important. That's what keeps you above the disability zone. So in this example, here, the red line descending downward is what you get with conventional health care versus conventional sick care. But if you make a health intervention, which is a lifestyle prescription, somewhere around midlife, you can actually extend the health span the amount of time the person spends above the disability zone. And that has enormous economic savings, both in terms of the person's health as also the fact that they can continue working.
Dr. Paul 26:00
Yeah, I'm thinking for people to really have this have impact. Think about something like caring for your children or grandchildren or your loved ones, or just to hit guys where it really counts, being sexually able to function, right? You follow that red line, and most men are impotent or have erectile dysfunction by age 50 to 60. You do a lifestyle integration, you might be fine until your 80s. Exactly. And it goes for just about any health condition, wellness and vitality is served by the type of measures that you talk about in your book. So exciting. So exciting. So you have some interesting perspective on evidence based medicine, you know, we MDS are held to this standard. I mean, I'm being challenged by the medical board, monthly, pretty much on something that all boils down to what they consider to be the standard of care, let's say,
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 27:04
this gets a little complicated, I'll try to explain it. But basically, evidence based medicine is essentially saying, Okay, we're going to apply treatments that have been proven in clinical research, where you do a double blind, placebo controlled crossover study. And that gives you really robust data. And you can be certain that that treatment, that remedy is objective, and it's it's proven that the problem is is the the fallacy is to assume that that proven this is a a trait of the medication that then achieves a life of its own can follow anywhere. No, it's relative to the context in which it was done. So it's a state dependent. This the, let me say the, the empirical signature of that remedy is dependent upon the context. But what we do is we take that and we transfer it to the clinical situation and apply it reductionistic Lee, as if now you have to treat your patient with this. With this remedy, even though many of the patients didn't respond in the in the research setting, you have to do a little bit better than placebo. But what about all the patients who didn't respond? Are they supposed to still get that same treatment? It doesn't make any sense?
Dr. Paul 28:23
Or worse yet, who had terrible side effects?
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 28:25
Right, exactly. And so there's some people that really looked at this in detail. And what they've discovered is that the clinical research setting represents a well structured problem that just requires a simple solution, which is very definitive. Either the treatment is better than placebo, or it's not. But in a clinical situation, that's an ill structured situation, that requires a completely different inquiring system, that where the the results are not as clear, and that you have to kind of weigh among a number of different perspectives. And so to try to apply a reductionistic really, the the research remedy to a clinical situation, you have to reduce the clinical situation to a caricature of itself. So every person is treated all alike with the same diagnosis. There is no individuality, no biochemical diversity, which is ridiculous. So this is the problem with standardized medicine is that everyone with the same diagnosis is treated the same way. It's a one size fits all. Same thing with the vaccine mandates, one size fits all for everybody.
Dr. Paul 29:35
Yep. An example from the vaccine world with that we saw with COVID, but they've been doing this for almost all vaccines, and actually, most pharmaceuticals, this concept of absolute risk reduction versus relative risk reduction, or you could get the benefit of a pharmaceutical but it's just a relative benefit. They don't show you that it's making only 1% difference, or in the case of the COVID vaccines. It was is actually protecting about 1% or a little less than that. But they've been like, oh, no, that risk reduction is 95% when it was a relative risk reduction, which was just playing with numbers,
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 30:10
right, exactly. Yeah, no, no, no, the thing I wanted to mention, so I don't forget is that what another thing that really disturbed me about my medical indoctrination was that it wasn't just about your license wasn't just about what you can prescribe was also about prescription, what you weren't allowed to do. Say, and if you did any of those things, then you get under fire. I spent some time with a chiropractor in our community, and he was doing the Gerson therapy. So I learned all about the Gerson therapy from him. And interestingly, I visited a professor of anthropology at the University of Wisconsin, Arizona, and he was diagnosed with bladder cancer. And they were going to remove his bladder. And I told him about the Gerson therapy, and his wife gave them the book on how to do it, his wife implemented that cured him of his bladder cancer. Okay, but coming back to that, you know, it's it's, I talked to this chiropractor, and he was saying, you know, if you want to do all this stuff, just become a minister. You can do there's no license for them to take away.
Dr. Paul 31:23
Yeah. Now it's a it's a very strange world, where how do we wake up our peers? Because I feel like the the COVID expose the fact to me, that the sick care system, our current medical system is so broken. I think you mentioned this in your book. I don't know that we can fix it, we have to do something parallel. And how do we reach the people who are stuck in that system to say, Hey, folks, there's a better way?
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 31:53
Well, you know, you know, I finished this book in tune 2019 before COVID. And, and I talk about, you know, how we can kind of base medicine on more of a complexity science and get away from this reductionistic Newtonian paradigm is completely outdated. And then in the epilogue, I talk about some practical ways that we might be able to do this, but but since COVID, I agree with you, I think the system is broken, and it cannot be fixed. It's been completely hijacked by corporations that care more about profits and about people. So I think we have to take Buckminster Fuller's advice, and to create an alternative system makes the current one obsolete. And a lot of people are actually in the works of doing that. Not just with medicine, but with a finance system. Agriculture, economics all that.
Dr. Paul 32:47
Yeah. Yeah, there's been an interest in PMAs. private membership associations is one mechanism whereby, if, you know, you can have grocery stores that are private membership, because we could potentially get shut out of the ability to shop in the big stores. Right? If you don't have the right ID. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Very interesting. Well, giving you the Florida wrap it up. Dr. John, tell, tell our audience, what's on your heart?
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 33:19
Well, you know, I think that by as I said, we're in a spiritual war. And we have to ask ourselves, what really matters as material wealth, that important, you know, having a fancy car that a nice home is all that really important. No, no, it's not. And I think that what we have to do is start reevaluating our values. So it's, there's so much fighting over what people believe. We need to put all that aside and ask what we value. That's what's most important, what we value, not what we believe. And so we have to be able to have more tolerance, and start to put our energies towards rebuilding a system that's based upon integrity, and these values.
Dr. Paul 34:09
And how do we open the eyes? If that's even possible? Probably that's the wrong way to go about it. How can we attract people who have family members who, though my own mom, and she loves me like nobody else? Well, Paul, how could you possibly be right? And everybody else is wrong, thinking about the other doctors who are, you know, pushing the COVID vaccine as as a example?
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 34:34
Well, you know, I'm one of two doctors at my local community hospital, they have not been vaccinated. Everyone else has been vaccinated. And unfortunately, you know, as Mark Twain said, it's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled. So, a lot of times when you present this information, people resist it because they don't want to believe they've been duped. I'm hoping that you know that my The book can be read by people and looking at the whole philosophical foundation of medicine and maybe start a dialogue, and maybe start constructing a new narrative. So I'm hoping to, you know, I'm thinking right now to design a whole PowerPoint program that's based on my book and start presenting the Educate the physicians.
Dr. Paul 35:25
That's, that's a wonderful idea. I'll have you back on when you get that PowerPoint ready, you are onto something that is so so important, and your voice needs to be heard. Thank you for coming on the show against the wind doctors and science under fire.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 35:39
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Paul 35:40
It's been a real pleasure and a privilege.
Dr. John Riesenman, MD 35:43
Oh, my pleasure is mine.
Dr. Paul 35:50
Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire. I have been wanting to have you on the show, you have the distinguished qualification of being one of the disinformation 12. So when I saw your name on that list and go, Man, What's this guy doing? It certainly appears to me and to those who are paying attention to what's going on in our world, that the people being labeled as promoting misinformation or disinformation are probably the people we ought to listen to. So I've been wanting to get you on the show. Just briefly, tell our audience a little bit about your background. And maybe how you got to be on that list.
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 36:34
Yeah, well, first of all, I just want to say thank you for having me, first of all, and I'm just really excited to be sitting down with you. Because you know, you are one of those Doc's that I really just have a ton of respect for. Because you know, you are a true physician, a doctor with integrity, and you know, you're not wavering your beliefs to, you know, you're not cowering and conforming to the tyranny that's in the world today. And you're just you're making a stand for true health. And so I just I really respect doctors like you. And you know, and I'm just like to say that I'm one of those doctors as well, doctrinal integrity that's made a stand. Yeah, you know, I come from a family of chiropractors, and, and my dad has been speaking out against, you know, the vaccine corruption since the 70s. And basically, he passed that baton on to me when he retired. But, you know, even before I got into practice, he would always educate me on vaccinations and this corruption, and we I was never vaccinated, nor my brother nor sister. And, you know, so that was my childhood growing up. And, and I really got a lot of attention, obviously, early on, but we would put on vaccine workshops prior to 2020. And, you know, and I listened to a lecture, excuse me, I listen to a lecture from a doctor in 2008. And he talks about the corruption of the manipulation of data at the National Vital reporting system for the CDC. And he would talk about how they always just they throw comer comorbidities in the death count with influenza. And, you know, and so, and 90% of the deaths are usually in the elderly. And I thought that was very interesting. And he had all those stats printed off. And so I've been following a close eye to those stats. I've been following those stats for over a decade. And when Corona had I said, all those numbers, they were being manipulated even more, and they implemented us up and disappeared. And, and, and then so I started speaking out early on and, and in 20, in the fall of 2020, in August, I spoke out at the council, and within 24 hours, that video had 3 million views viral and it said just because people are starving for the truth and yeah, you know, and and, and that's basically what put me on the map. It put me on that list the disinformation but the disinformation doesn't but but anyway, that's kind of my story and so on.
Dr. Paul 38:52
Yeah. So you have
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 38:54
four children. What are their ages? I have Ophelia. She's 11. And Owen is going to be 10. And then Olson is six and Aslan is for their my Cheerios.
Dr. Paul 39:04
Wow. And I'm guessing they're not vaccinated. No, they're
I'm guessing they're very healthy.
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 39:11
They are very healthy. Thanks, Lord. Yes, yeah.
Dr. Paul 39:15
Amazing. Right now, you grew up in that world that I think the chiropractors have been fairly steadfast in as a discipline, you know, as an as a group understanding the risks of vaccines, and more so than any other group of doctors. So you have probably had a career at both watching your own father's career in practice and then your own, of being able to care for large numbers of people who are unvaccinated. Tell me a little bit about what that was like. What what did you see in this unvaccinated population that was supposedly at such great risk of infections because they weren't vaccinated?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 39:56
Right? Well, you know, we'd always talk about you know, the importance of healthy life. styles and making healthy choices and your level of health is the genetic expression or the innate expression of how we eat, how we move how we think. So teaching the moms to live healthy lifestyles, and that will, you know, that will portray on to the children and the children will express healthy lifestyles as well, they follow that the choices the parents make, but you know, just seeing the children in the clinic living a natural style of health, they're just, they're better off, they're healthier. They don't have the ear infections, they don't have all this chronic illness that normal kids have. And, and, you know, I just like you, I know you, you really more than I have really put your data out there. In the clinical data to show there is a significant difference in these children, the vaccinated versus unvaccinated groups. And, you know, we saw that in our clinic as well. You know, we had parents and especially to start getting your name out there and start speaking out, the parents that have vaccinating your children come to you for help, because they're not getting that help in the, in the medical world. They're not getting, they're getting gaslighted. And they're they're getting written off or I was a genetic type issue. There's nothing you can do. And that's just not true, as bad as really just bad. Science. And it's terrible bedside manners. And it's not an it's not true Helms. And so it was, it was a very, it was a privilege to be able to see those kids and help moms find the truth. And I tell you, there's nothing more satisfying is when you have a mom or a soon to be Mom, listen to you. Take your advice. And then they are so grateful that they listened to you. And they show you that appreciation and they become like family. And that's what's really a joy.
Dr. Paul 41:46
Yeah, absolutely. How many kids would you say you've taken care of in your career?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 41:51
Well, I would say a third of my practice was a pediatric practice. And so and so we had, I mean, goodness, you know, we averaged about 300 visits a week. And so a third of that about 100 of those were kids. And so yeah, so that I practiced that way for 10 years. And so
Dr. Paul 42:11
most of those kids were unvaccinated. I would say,
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 42:15
you know, probably close to 70% are unvaccinated.
Dr. Paul 42:21
Okay, in that group, just to kind of pull your experience because I don't get to talk to too many doctors who have a large population of unvaccinated kids. How many kids in your unvaccinated population had autism or other chronic conditions?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 42:36
I've never had a single one have autism that was on vaccinated. Yep. And so that's just the numbers. That's this there, you know. And it's, it's, it's, you know, and I've had moms come in and vaccinated their first two kids, and then they didn't vaccinate the other two, they're likely to have a tool for the vaccinated to the vaccine next to, and they will tell you that the unvaccinated kids are healthier. They see it firsthand. Yeah, you know, they, they hit through milestones sooner, they are speaking sooner. They they're just healthier. You know, and even on the vaccine inserts, if you look at you know, on page six were most adverse reactions or label on the inserts, they'll tell you like, you know, all the conditions and side effects, these vaccines and otitis media is on there, and they're inflammatory in the in the ears and, and everything else. That's why we had this explosion of ear infections and nobody wanted. Nobody wants to talk about the elephant in the room and how inflammatory these vaccines are, you know, so
Dr. Paul 43:31
now I think that's why the VAX annex data is so critical, because the CDC, the NIH health plans even nobody was looking at total health outcomes comparing vaccinated unvaccinated. And so when I go around speaking, and I present, that data is just mind blowing, and you've lived it. And so it's it's your total experience that yes, these unvaccinated kids are so much healthier, when nobody wants to listen to us.
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 43:58
Right, you know, and I, my biggest thing is, you know, like I talked about, like a car crash school, we just got hammered with a nervous system, like just drilled on the nervous system, and, you know, developing the nervous system. And so I took that and went with Clinical Immunology and just, you know, and I apply it, you know, the physiology to it. And in my study, like I found that these vaccinations, they're, they're really they're bypassing away, the body's immune system really operates and it's really so invasive. If you look at from a microscopic view on on them, just the needle penetrating the skin, it creates an incident like, you know, almost an inflammatory response, and it triggers a wrong wrong immunoglobulin. You know, we have this immunoglobulin e response right away, and we're the CDC and everybody else is like all it takes two weeks for your body to develop the right antibodies and immunity to this vaccine. But what's really occurring is that we have this inflammatory process and immunoglobulin immunoglobulin E is triggered releasing histamine, which when histamine is released that allows the blood brain barrier to be permeable allowing all this junk adjuvants and everything else to penetrate in the nervous system and causing inflammation and cause other major problems. And in nobody's talking about that, and it's a it's really concerning because I believe truly believe once we understand this and get this information to the masses, we're gonna look back and be like, Oh my gosh, we used to vaccinate to the skin and used to cause all these problems. And then the media and the CDC, they're just covering up. It's just like a frontal lobotomies we did to the 50s. Like, we look back, like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe we should do that. Well, once we really look at how invasive these vaccinations truly are, I truly believe that we're going to look back and realize one day, how invasive they are.
Dr. Paul 45:39
Yeah. It's unfortunate to me that this world we live in today where the paradigm is, vaccines are safe and effective, we need pharma to survive. Where would we be without vaccines without pharma, when in fact, you know, stories like yours, your own personal experience, your family, your practice, where you focus on health and nutrition and supporting the immune system naturally, and you don't disrupt the natural order of the immune system with vaccines, you have incredible outcomes. But we need a new paradigm. How are we going to get there?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 46:14
Right? Well, I think we need to just respect each paradigms that we all operate in, there's a massive purpose for the allopathic paradigm, there's a massive and it saves lives, it really does. But you know, vaccines, I in my opinion, really don't necessarily fit into the wellness and prevention paradigm. And so we need to up the walls that prevention paradigm is, is very much present. I mean, Benjamin Franklin said, An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But we need to recognize that there really, pharmaceuticals have no place in a wellness and prevention paradigm. pharmaceuticals are much very much needed. But they're they don't really fit into that paradigm. And so that's where I knew in the wells that progression paradigm is, is basically teaching people how to eat well move well think well relate well. And we can be well, and again, and if we need an allopathic intervention, that's thank the Lord for that. Because, you know, the allopathic world, or the the or the doctors have of that emergency character, the trauma care, and they are the experts, the doctors are the experts, and very much we all have a certain place. And so that's my, my really understanding of how we get there just really educating and not, you know, how you say it sensor, the docs that are speaking out into the walls prevention paradigm? And yeah,
Dr. Paul 47:31
we need both for sure. I think the emphasis could shift towards wellness, and we would be way better off. But yeah, if you need an appendectomy, or emergency C section, or, you know, some trauma you've been in, we're in the best system in the world for that sort of care. Right? What's your take on COVID? And what are you telling your patients or your loved ones?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 47:57
Oh, man, that's a loaded question. Well, so you know, I, there's so much to this, because, you know, I saw this early on, you know, I've been, we had a talk in November of, of 2019. You know, we had the early on in 2019. I believe that it foreshadow the pandemic, you have the ACI p, which is a subdivision of the CDC talk about how, you know, they can't force vaccinate, but of course, compliance. Well, I that raises the question, well, how are they going to do that? Right. You know, and then you have the World Health Organization early on, say that the greatest threat to the World Health are those who question or refuse vaccinations, then you have easily heavy VAT to a one, which is super weird. And then you have all this stuff going down. Okay, so in fall, and none, let alone the legislation. If you looked at all the legislation, all the bills that were being implemented, that were very draconian in nature, like the SB 277, under the California that pass, and all these other bills that were sweeping the nation, like in Maine, and and I believe that Mississippi, but if you have, you know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there's something coming our way. And so I spoke out in November of 2019 ice and I held a seminar and I said something big is coming our way. We need to be proactive in this fight. We need to stay alert. Well, if then while the crony baloney hidden 2020 And basically, is when I had another seminar in February, I said, This is it. This is the Trojan horse and funnels legislation, this is what they're gonna do. And so I came off as a nutty loon to all of my family and a lot of my patients. I mean, I think I lost a third of my patience because I was very vocal in this fight. And then I was talking about the PCR test how it's not meant to be diagnostic, and there's a lot of questions there with a PCR test. And you know, and, you know, then I had, I'd have, you know, people come up to me and say, Listen, I had a lady reached out to me, he said, My husband was in a mortgage coach died of a motorcycle accident and they they labeled it as COVID. So there was just all these stories that were really weird. are coming our way. But, you know, again, a lot of there was a lot of people like listening to me, but they weren't saying anything they weren't speaking out, they were just listening. And, you know, my family, unfortunately, a lot of my, my in laws, they just, they don't even talk to me now. They work in the hospital, and they just they think I'm crazy. Yeah, you know, but, but what I would tell my patients is that there's nothing to fear one of my great mentors. So that fear is the fire that fuels the furnace of disease. And if we are in a fearful state, we are in a sympathetic state, which is going to be leave us vulnerable, vulnerable for disease. And so, and that's why I think it's criminal that if we're in a pandemic, why is there a constant death count on the media? NASAT 20, for our death count, all you're doing is you're almost breeding this fear mongering state with the people causing the panic. I mean, I've had patients that have a common cold, and they freak out, like, I need to go to the hospital like this day at home. You're okay. If the media wasn't portraying this beat in the COVID drum, you just be just fine. And you recover in a couple days. Yeah, nothing to fear here. You know, and we know now that there's a lot of this stuff coming out from Desert of your house faulty, and that the protocols are was killing people. It's not the not COVID.
Dr. Paul 51:06
And what was your experience in your practice with COVID?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 51:11
I mean, again, early on in the COVID, I lost a third of my people, but you know, I, I didn't really they left the practice, they love to practice because I wasn't following. I wasn't complying to the mandate. And and I don't mean, any disrespect to anybody that was following the guidelines. I mean, you know, I just chose to be stubborn. And I was, I didn't wear a mask and I and I had to put my hands on it was what I do for a living, I put my hands on every patient, so I had to violate one of their guidelines. So I said, I'm not it's childish. I'm not going to do this. And
Dr. Paul 51:48
I imagine you and your staff got COVID. And a lot of your patients did,
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 51:53
right? No, well, honestly, man, none of us. I didn't get sick once, during the whole pandemic. And you know, that's what I spoke out to against the city council. I said, Listen, I've been seeing patients, two or 300 patients a week here at night, and I come in close proximity. And I don't wear a mask, and I've yet to get sick. I mean, I mean, I asked the question, how many people do I have to see for the contagion claim is mathematically impossible? You know what I mean? Yeah, so. But that being said, and I would, I would tell patients, like there's nothing there's fear, and I would, you know, blaming the disease on a droplet is really like blaming the flies for the trash. And, you know, if this germ theory were really true, we'd all be dead. That's not to say that germs can cause a problem, or issues in the body, but blaming us I mean, I tell people if they're sick, or I'm coming to just sit or do this, and that I'm not afraid of this. And I never got sick. And I honestly, truth be told, I actually would have a ton of patients come in and they said, Well, I've got I just test tested positive for COVID, today or yesterday. And I said, Well, you're doing the best thing you can right now it's come see me, and I never got sick. This is one of those things where that might actually challenge some people's belief systems, but but it's really just, you know, live a healthy lifestyle. And that's what I do try to be new away from that toxicity deficiency in the purity insufficiency. And we can be well, nothing, nothing to fear. Now, you know, if you're elderly and vulnerable, if you have other comorbidities going on, you're more likely to get sick. And that's, that's, that's a fact. But going back to the Spanish flu, 100 years ago, there's so many parallels that we're running to this day there, you know, I have an article hanging in my office that I bought, you know, 10 years ago about Spanish flu. I talked about how much manipulation of data was occurring back then. And how the media was pushing us fear mongering. And the article even stated that they're, you know, about mask because they're pushing mask, and I have pictures of people wear masks or go to jail is like this virtue signaling going on. And, you know, the, the article, the author stated, there's a there's a hawk fence, keep up mosquitoes referring to the virus, and it was comical, but that means that I digress. But it was just, it's just there's so many parallels going on and where history is literally repeating itself. Yeah,
Dr. Paul 54:04
absolutely. Well, what burning thoughts would you like to share with my audience?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 54:13
Well, the biggest thing is obviously, you know, do your homework when it comes to these vaccines. And, you know, coercion is not consent. And that's a big thing that I see across the board. That's what's that, what that's one thing that does fuels, my fire and it like, it makes my blood pressure rise is when I have patients come out of the PDF pediatricians office and they said that the pediatrician has said, you know, your, your child's gonna die if you don't get this hepatitis B vaccine, or your child's gonna die if you don't get this shot, and that's really terrible.
Dr. Paul 54:43
Yeah. If you've been talking about a newborn born to a mom who does not have hepatitis B, that newborn is not going to die if they don't get that shot.
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 54:50
Right, exactly. Right. You know, and that's where, you know, excuse me, you know, that's why I love doctors like you. You tell the truth and you care about the patient. And if you're not going to use fear mongering, if you feel a check in your spirit that you're you're being coerced to do something that's going against your beliefs or, or anything like that you should leave that office immediately. There's nothing to fear when it comes to this, we need to understand that God may your your baby and your immune system be well, if you give the body what it needs, you can be well, and you know, overcoming diseases, like Corona is far greater than anyone including Dr. Fauci as it permitted us to believe, you know, and so treat the body well, and your body will treat you. Well.
Dr. Paul 55:33
Super. And one last question for you. I'm going to give you a tough one here. So what do you recommend? Or have you seen helpful for people who are vaccine injured, especially the COVID-19 shots?
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 55:48
Well, you know, when the COVID go into the COVID vaccine, I'm telling people to fast, you know, especially if you have a really, really acute injury. I mean, fasting is I would recommend, but also some, if it's a serious situation, like, you know, there's some people that have major injuries from this. And fasting is not going to do them any good. But I think, you know, I tell people to fast, I've been telling people to detox the best they can. But this shot is different. It's not your typical vaccine. And so I feel like we are very early on in this vaccine have seen what this is going to do to people. I mean, there's, there's already I've seen data and literature with that talk about the myocarditis that's occurring. So obviously, any inflammation, you know, avoid inflammatory foods, get your or your omega threes up to help combat the Omega six nine ratios helps. So to help the inflammatory process in the body, take some, you know, natural anti inflammatories in the body, but avoid the sugar, the alcohol, the inflammatory foods, obviously, and that's kind of my angle of of things, you know, but going outside of that is, you know, you're going to see different things with this vaccine. It's the technology, this is something we've never seen before. And they want to basically incorporate all vaccines eventually to be mRNA to have a vaccine technology, which is terrifying to me. Absolutely. Terrifying. Yeah. So Well,
Dr. Paul 57:14
thank you for that. Let you have the closing words. I really appreciate your time. Yeah,
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 57:20
well, doc file. I just appreciate you I appreciate us. I mean, the time is now for us to stand and not be complacent. I mean, Martin Luther Chang stated that, you know, Martin Luther King Jr. said that the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands at times of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. Now's not the time to be complacent. Now's not the time to conform to the narrative here. Now's the time to be bold and courageous to stand our ground, to be the salt and light of the earth. And you know, we must not fear persecution, we are going to be persecuted, but we must welcome it every time you anybody in history that took a stand for truth was with face persecution, okay. But our convictions must be greater than our complacency, to speak the truth because the soil for truth right now is rich, the people are starving for it. God demands it and our family deserves it. So,
Dr. Paul 58:15
Amen, brother. Amen. That is a very powerful closing statement. Thank you so much for coming on our show. And I can't wait to see you in the real real flesh one of these days. Yeah. Thanks
Dr. Ben Tapper, DC 58:25
so much, Paul. Take care. God bless you too, buddy. God bless.
Dr. Paul 58:34
Dr. Paul, thanks for watching the show. Please visit doctors and science.com There you can access our members only section. This show is member supported. We don't have to take sponsors. We don't have to have anybody controlling the content of our show. This is a huge perk. Most people aren't aware of your membership gives you access to my eBooks, transcripts of every show, PowerPoints from talks I'm giving around the country and live bonus peeks at behind the scenes work. We're doing my off the cuff thoughts and reviews on current events. Your support makes all this possible. Thank you helped me spread the truth and share this on social media and with your friends at doctors and science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation has been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul
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