Show 45: Transcript

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​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Dr. Paul Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. Today's show I feature an interview with Rick Jaffe. He's been an FDA healthcare attorney for over 30 years and since 2016, has focused on the vaccine issue and medical exemptions, he talks about the biggest lessons from the past two years the increasing risk that physicians take when they speak out in a narrative that is not approved by mainstream medical boards COVID misinformation, and the sanctions that doctors face. He talks about bills on both sides of the issue of federal local, and what we should do what the public should take away from this pandemic. Next, I speak with Scott shara, he presents a heartbreaking story about his lovely daughter Grace, who passed away in the care of the hospital for COVID 19. He's done immense research, built a website and shares heartbreaking but important information for all of us to know Should we have a loved one who needs to go to the hospital. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Pol from the heart. Today I'm celebrating the spirit of spring. When I wake up in the morning, I wake to the sound of birds singing that is so heartwarming. I'm recalling when I was raising my kids and we had a little thing called a do over. You know how sometimes you'd get out of bed and you just got out on the wrong side of bed? Well, one time my son, Luke, I was I think I'm the one who had gotten up on the wrong side of bed and is innocent. I mean, he was just what four or five years old and he looks up at me, he goes, Daddy, can we have a do over? It was sort of like putting me on timeout. But it's so important. Sometimes when we're just out of sorts to kind of rebalance. This spring, this season is a season to be loving, it's a season to be kind, supportive. You know, if we have a loved one who's struggling or our kids are struggling, we need to be there for them. I remember at times I've been struggling and the loved one tells me you've got this, I've got you those sorts of sayings just gave me that uplifting love and energy that I needed. And we need to be there for one another. So I am grateful to all of you who've supported this show who have supported this amazing journey we're on. And we all stand together for informed consent for no two mandates. And we unite for freedom and for love. Thank you for your attention.

welcome Rick Jaffe to against the wind doctors and science under fire. It is such a privilege to have you on the show you and I go back aways, we've interacted at various conferences, and I've always seen you as a real thought leader in the you know, as an attorney who's in the healthcare space, you're an FDA lawyer, you're, you know, working cutting edge on medical issues for the last 30 years. I know you've worked with the medical boards, civil litigation, criminal defense of health care practitioners and new technologies, including stem cells, novel cancer treatments, we're gonna have to have you back for some of that stuff. I know in 2016, which was about the time we started interacting, you started working on vaccine and medical exemption issues. And then in 2020, you and your team filed the lawsuit against the COVID pandemic flu vaccine mandates, forcing the University of California to provide students with religious exemption for the flu vaccine. And I think that they allowed that to be used for COVID. Did they not?

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  3:33  
Yes, yes, they did. That's

Dr. Paul  3:35  
perfect. So you have a blog on healthcare issues. I read it every time I get it. And the most recent one, titled some big picture thinking as COVID mandates wine down around the world, this hit right when Oregon was letting go of their mask mandates for everybody except for the healthcare setting. And I thought I gotta get you on the show. We got to talk about this. I mean, what we've learned from the last two years of lock downs and mandates, and I'm just really fascinated, you know, this hits home with me, because people who know my story, I have this huge interest in physicians rights to give informed consent to talk about vaccines. And so I was really eager to get a legal perspective, if you will. So for our listeners, let's just kick it off with that. What are the biggest lessons you think we should take from the last two years?

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  4:27  
Well, to me, I have to stand. So I've been doing this blog and early on in the pandemic. You know, I think I, I just bought into the narrative about, you know, what was it called flatten the curve, right. So, you know, it sounds reasonable to me and and I think the lesson that I've learned the biggest lesson I've learned in two years is that state governors have too much power to lock down economies. And I think that has to change the notion If that one person elected official they may be, it can stop them shut down the economy and, and commerce and and social interaction in a state say a 40 million people I now think is appalling that state legislators have to get involved in this at a minimum, there's a movement afoot to stop any kind of any kind of law against lockdowns or mandates or anything. And in some states that might work like like the red states, but the blue states, I don't think that's going to happen. But I think what reasonable people, even if you're for vaccines, even if you're for the mandates, the notion that that one person with the advice of some adviser in the health department can shut down economy. That's got to stop that has to change. That's my biggest takeaway.

Dr. Paul  5:54  
Yeah, I had the same feeling exactly. Well put. How can one person it seems like they have more power than the President of the United States? I mean, they do

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  6:03  
they do, because the other takeaway is that the feds aren't so much involved in mandates, except for maybe interstate travel. So what we've the other takeaway is that unless you work in a Medicare hospital, right, the federal government doesn't even have that power. And historically, this has been a power that's been reserved to the States and the localities, which is a good thing. So but I think the problem is, if you take a state, especially big state like California, there are 40 million people there. Why should the same rule apply in San Francisco is does in some county with 100,000? People? Yeah, I mean, it's just so my new takeaway is that all of these issues, at least in terms of vaccine passports, or work stoppages or shelter in place, it has to be done at the local level, you know, and where, where, at least, you could have arguably like minded people, but this this statewide thing has to go. And that's the that I think, is the most important thing we have to do. And again, it doesn't even matter whether you're part of whatever it is the 20 or 25% of the people or 30%, who don't like the vaccine, or, or whatever. But but but the notion is that has to change, they need the legislative input, and it's got to be local. So you know, the other thing I point out, is the Jacobsen case, you know, the way back and Jason, that was I believe that was an order of the council, it wasn't just the mayor. And the other point I'd make is the reason I want it to be local, and involve the legislature is that it can't just be one party, right? Because that's what happens. You have a Democratic governor, he appoints a democratic, the head of the Department of Health, this has to be something that has to be bipartisan, and it has to have input from minority view, which is more likely to come in a two party system is involved.

Dr. Paul  8:09  
So for our viewers, Jacobson, that was that case in Massachusetts over smallpox, I believe, right? Correct. Back in the early 1900s, like 90 know something, right. And it was a $5 fine for this family who didn't want to get that vaccine and the smallpox shot and and it's become the case, till this day, has allowed public health officials, government officials to do mandates,

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  8:38  
correct. Yeah. Well, and just just And just to clarify, just just do gives the your viewer some context. So Jacobson was decided to no five and to do with the $5 fine. And this $5 Fine has really taken off, because that was the it was a criminal case. And that was the penalty. But what has happened, since Jacobsen is that his has been expanded. All right. And in I think, in the early 20s, the court zoom vs. King held that it applied to schools that the the schools could mandate vaccines, and there was no $5 pot fine. So since the 20s interpretation of Jacobson, you know, it's been held that somebody has the ability to have mandates on schoolchildren. And then now the big issue is can you mandate adults, and that's, you know, we've had all these Supreme Court cases. And that's where we are right now with all this, all these contradictory decisions about the mandates for adults. So that's really the things we're dealing with right now.

Dr. Paul  9:45  
Yeah. So as a legal mind, that understands the landscape. I love your concept of bring it local. But how how do you do that legally? I mean, public health officials governors have gotten so much power People who get power don't want to give it up. Right? How do you change that?

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  10:04  
Well, the technically it's you would need a new law passed by the legislature. All right. So the emergency authorities of a governor are granted by, by a state law. So you would need an amendment. And the amendment could take one or two forms, it could basically remove the ability of the governor to declare an emergency and order businesses shut. Or it could require the governor or a certain very limited time, 60 days and anything beyond that has to have the approval of I would say, a supermajority of the legislature. That's what that's I think that would be the easiest way to do it. mandates are ended, right? But there's either going to be a new wave, or there's gonna be a new virus. So I think now is the time to start thinking about how we deal with this next time does seem

Dr. Paul  11:04  
unfortunate that it's this health, Freedom Movement, that's what you're referring to right? The right to informed consent and, and freedom to do what you will with your own body has become so politicized that it's now a Democrat, Republican. It's insane to me. Your your blog also speaks about an issue that's dear and near to my heart. This is this increasing risk that we physicians face. When we speak out against mandates, when we speak out against anything vaccine related or in the Federation of State medical boards issued this decree to the Academy of Pediatrics, the academy, family practice internal medicine, that making COVID misinformation, and they don't define misinformation, that you can lose your license giving the board's the power to do that. What do you think what's going on

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  11:52  
the infectious disease mafia, and that would be you know, the infectious disease doctors and the public health officials, they have this view of COVID and the efficacy of the vaccine and they kind of discount side effects. And they're trying to stop physicians from even speaking out about the issue in California, they've introduced a bill to effectively put into into legal effect, the Federation's position statement making, providing COVID misinformation. In other words, if you've knocked the vaccine or knocks the mandate in any way, its board sanctionable conduct. Now, that's in California, other states, New Mexico now has a board policy statement saying the same thing. There are other states are taking the opposite position, Tennessee has introduced legislation to make to prohibit boards from sanctioning doctors. So that is that's the real time issue for physicians, right, because their doctors who feel like you that speak out about the problems with the vaccine, and especially with kids now, now, the big issue was kids, right, do you should they give it to kids? And it's a highly politicized polarized issue? And you know, there's some there countries, I think Sweden has opted not to give it to young kids, I think, right, and others, and

Dr. Paul  13:18  
they never masked their kids, either.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  13:20  
Right. And, and that's right. And that dovetails in the next point? I think we have a tremendous opportunity here. I mean, I think what we have is we have a lot of data points. And we have international data points. My pet peeve is for years has been the fact that, you know, we have a much worse health care system in terms of outcomes than almost any industrialized country in the world. And we spend more per capita and achieve less. And why is that? Now probably the vaccination issue was a part of it may be a small part of it. There are a lot of reasons I happen to think fee for service is a big part of it to the notion, you know, what we do here? Is it just fee for service in most other industrialized countries, you have some form of socialized medicine, let's call it so there are a lot of moving parts here. But what what COVID has done is allows us to compare the outcomes here versus around the world where you have what most people in America think are inferior health care systems that have better results, way better, way better results. So we haven't had this opportunity before because it's all been, you know, it's just been hype and everything but you have the data, you have the per capita deaths, and we're not doing that well. And I think it's time to ask why. And like I say I put in my blog, if I had a couple 100 million bucks. What I do is I start a think tank and start to explore some of these medical issues, some of the legal issues about lockdowns, the alternatives, like what I talked about up, you know, getting making sure the legislature gets involved. I also like to see the institutionalization of minority opinions. Right? I would say structurally, there has to be a way to incorporate minority views into the decision making process, rather than what we have now, which is the vilification of minority view.

Dr. Paul  15:24  
Do you have an opinion about what's happened to science? You know, I've been living through this for the last 40 years since I was in medical school. And it just feels like science has been co opted by big business. And study designs are all paid for by farmer, and they have a specific outcome they're looking for. And, boy, it's just when you hear on the news, we follow the science or we follow the data, right? That doesn't mean that you're following good science. It's, it's a sad state of affairs,

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  15:56  
what has happened is people forget that science is a human endeavor. So like any human endeavor, you have, you have jealousies, you have prejudices and biases. And if science were done by computers, you could expect it's just pure science, but it's not. So there are all kinds of examples, and a great physician, you would know about that if you take a look at the history of nutrition, and how how they used to think a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, and all kinds of areas where you have unscientific ideas, paradigms, you know, what Thomas Kuhn would say, paradigms that come in, and they become, nor they become the prevailing science, and they ridicule, you know, minority views. And that works until it just becomes obvious that it's not working. And they have to have all these explanations about why people get fat, even if they reduce their caloric intake, you know, and so, the, and then you have a new paradigm. So I think where we are right now is because of the pandemic, it's possible that the whole public health debate may change, because we're going to see everyone knows knows what an adverse event is. And there's all kinds of problems with the virus reporting system. And all this is up for public discussion. And it's all over the internet. And the efforts to suppress the minority views is not working.

Dr. Paul  17:33  
No, if anything it's helping. I think that's right. Yes. Yeah. Finally, I mean, the Joe Rogan thing is huge, right? 60 million people got to view those interviews. Malone and makalah.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  17:45  
Look, in California, we're fighting the good fight. And we're opposing Richard Pan and all this kind of thing. But it's a state with a super majority of Democrats. So you know, there's going to be a fight about whether the COVID vaccine should be added to the schedule. Right. And that's in this legislature. But But if people ask me, What are the odds? I mean, the odds are, look, we vaccinate people against polio, and there is no polio, right? We've, there's no polio, we vaccinate, give it hit what A or B vaccines a day old, good infants. Nobody, no kid, the day old is or five years old is getting any kind of hepatitis. So we vaccinate against things that even this measles thing, which precipitated the rescission of the personal belief exemption in California and the religious exemption, New York. I mean, there are 177 cases and no deaths, right? We vaccinate against that. So if you're asking me, you know, what's the Las Vegas odds, right? We're in a pandemic, people are dying, I'll be it kids aren't really dying, but we're in the middle of a pandemic, what are the odds that in California, right, they're not going to have that on the schedule, regardless of the fact that Sweden doesn't do it, and doctors like you don't think that happen? I don't think that's a good bet. So if I had a kid, you know, and practically, if I had a kid, and I didn't want my kid to get vaccinated with the COVID vaccine, if I felt that strong with it, I'd get the hell out of California,

Dr. Paul  19:17  
parents, it is on you to protect your children, right? It's your job as a parent. And if you have done your deep dive into the research and the data, it's worldwide, we know that kids are not at risk from the illness are at risk from the vaccine. So you just have to weigh risk benefit. And it just doesn't stack up for kids. I'm sorry, I don't give medical advice. This is just a talk show here. But you put you're not

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  19:41  
giving it a medical opinion, you're not giving a medical opinion to parents. So, you know, you're hopefully we live in a country where you can't get prosecuted for that. But sometimes I wonder,

Dr. Paul  19:52  
I know if you have to be a refugee and find a new state and you're able to pull it off and that's what it takes to protect your child. Maybe that's what you do either. That Are you homeschool. Get off the grid. So how about for doctors though this is so interesting to me, I'm in that very small group of doctors who are aware of vaccine risk who really want informed consent, no forced anything pharmaceutical no mandates? What's your advice for doctors like me? And then what's your thoughts about the 99? Or 95%? of doctors who just? I don't know, I don't I don't understand how they can't see that there's other data out there.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  20:29  
I think that this concept of informed consent, in the context of vaccines is a political part of a political dialogue. It's a you know, it's just like, it's a call to action, right from a physician's point of view. Let's say you talk to a patient for 45 minutes about the dangers of Kovacs vaccine, and you do a risk benefit analysis the way a scientist should do a physician should do, but nobody does. What's the result? What are they looking for? So I have to question what the purpose of an informed consent Medical Contact is, if you can't excuse from vaccines if you can't write a medical excuse for vaccines,

Dr. Paul  21:19  
so you're talking about that family that already knows they don't want the vaccine? And you're right. In that case, they don't need me, they don't need you. They've already made their decision. And their options are limited. If they're in California, they have to homeschool or leave. Right, right. But I think the bigger the more common situation is, especially as this COVID thing rolled out. We didn't know what was going on. Right? So we're all learning and getting information. And so parents come to us doctors, just like you would if you're having an elective surgery, there's risks and there's benefits, and they want us to help them figure out where does it sit with the risk benefit analysis. And that's the process of informed consent. So you help them understand the data. But what's so interesting, as you I'm sure are aware, depends who you talk to, right? If I have a full range of information on true risks, and sure there's some real true benefits as well. But I have a very different take than say somebody who just thinks vaccines are safe and effective. And that's their only narrative. You know, the marketing of this rollout of this shot, it's hard to call it a vaccine. It's sort of genetic modification technique. Can't even call it therapy. But anyway, they're hearing such a overwhelming message. That's one way. And they're just trying to check with somebody who might know what's really going on. Right? So they are coming looking for information. Of course, I can't talk about it, because my board interim agreement prevents me from discussing vaccines. So this show is is a place where I can at least bring on experts and people like you and we can have a conversation.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  23:02  
I'm not a movement leader. I'm a lawyer, right, and means you have to be dispassionate, and you just have to look at what a call. So this I think I circle back to the fact that the concept of informed consent in the vaccine movement really is a political issue. It's not really a medical point, because there's no practical import of it largely, at least insofar as the state's going to mandate the COVID vaccine. So

Dr. Paul  23:36  
there's no informed consent period.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  23:37  
That's exactly right. And if there's no informed consent, there's no process of informed consent. So from a doctor's point of view, what are you doing? You're taking money from a family to do what, in large part to reinforce their views. But you know, what my look, look, I saw behind the scenes of this whole to seven SB 277. medical exemption things. It's pretty clear to me that the parents, hey, I mean, let's be realistic here. They're not looking. Honestly, they were looking for a piece of paper, not in so called informed consent. You have people it's highly polarized people are highly opinionated. I, my guess is there aren't many people in the margins here. You have people that are for because of their personal reasons are highly against the vaccine. And then you have a majority of people, which may change once the data comes out, that are just accept what the CDC says. They get vaccinated. They don't ask questions. They get their kids vaccinated, and that's the majority of people so I don't see the function of a physician explaining to affect like minded people who are practical looking for a way out. I I don't think you got it. You guys have a job here? I just don't I don't see. And that's why I'll tell you, I'll tell you how personal this is. People all the time families want asked me all the time, they want to do a consultation with me about vaccine exemptions. I don't do them. I tell people, I don't do them. And for simple reason, I can't take people's money to tell them that I don't have a solution for I don't I don't engage in that behavior. I don't have an answer. Right? I know what the law is. And that's why I write these blogs. So I question whether, you know, on the nuts and bolts of it, you can use it or not use it. You know, people are they know, you, they know all the usual suspects and doctors, they're looking for solutions. And the way they look for solutions for me, I don't have one, I'm not charging people for it, you know, and I just don't do it. So so that's really the the ultimate practicalities of it. What is the doctor doing? Right? You know, in that medical content, you only have 810 12 hours a day, and you're not going to spend two hours with the patient. What what is the value to the patient? Just to you don't have this hypothetical conversation?

Dr. Paul  26:14  
Yeah. Traditionally, prior to COVID. You got the CDC schedule? You know, I wrote the book, the vaccine friendly plan that had a different approach, right. science based, you know, minimizing reducing aluminum toxicity? That was I look what

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  26:28  
got little luck with that. Gotcha. Oh, yeah, that puts the target and put the target right on the target on your back. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  26:34  
But see, this is the this is my point. It's I don't do consults. I never have just vaccine consults. I'm just taking care of patients. And in the context of taking care of patients, people need information. And so it's just a process of education. Anyhow, some good discussions there, I'd like you to have the last word closing thoughts on what you think is next for our world?

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  26:59  
Well, local control, and now is the time to start to make that happen, I think is where we have to go

Dr. Paul  27:07  
and use the current political system to do that.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  27:10  
Yes, and I think the big opportunity now is to take the data on a global basis, which I suspect I'm not a scientist, I suspect it won't reflect well, on the American approach. I suspect that that'll be the case you can argue about? Look, the reality is, and I probably have a different view than almost anybody listening, in terms of I think there's probably some set, there is some set of people so upset that people were vaccines have been helpful, you know, not so much on the kids, I think what you have to do is you have to take a hard look at the data neutrally, neither as a pro Vaxxer, or an anti Vaxxer. And draw your conclusions and do a better job next time. I think that what's that have to happen? And it presents an opportunity, you know, for hopefully for both sides, but it to move the the ball so far from the pro vac side, and have people take a hard look at this and draw different conclusions. And I think that's, that's why I think it might be this whole pandemic might have some possible good effects if that happens.

Dr. Paul  28:19  
I completely agree. I think we we finally went way too far with pushing a quote vaccine that really wasn't ready for primetime.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  28:29  
Right. All right, well,

Dr. Paul  28:32  
thank you, Rick. All right.

Rick Jaffe, Esq.  28:34  
Take care and good luck again, sometime

Dr. Paul  28:35  
Good luck to you to

welcome Scott Scara it is such a privilege and honor to have you on the show against the wind. You are Grace's dad, and president of our amazing grace. And it just warms my heart that you're willing to share that your story of what happened with your daughter. I've studied your website, our amazing grace.net And we've communicated a little bit by email but folks who want to get more information you definitely want to go to our amazing grace dotnet your daughter had Down syndrome. Yes. And from everything I can tell she was probably the most loving and delightful person walking this earth and something very tragic happened. Actually, I have to I was on your website, and I think it was Grace's favorite jokes or something like that. Thank you for posting that. Where do turtles go to the bathroom? The Shell station? Why didn't the toilet paper cross the road while it was stuck in the crack? Have you read Don't fence me in written by barbed wire. And it goes on folks. So you've got to visit this website. It's a it's it's fun and it's also tragically sad. So Tell me what do you want the world to know?

Scott Schara  30:04  
Well, I want to I want the world to know about Grace's story. And then ultimately, there's a lot bigger picture than Grace's story, which is how does God get connected with this whole thing?

Dr. Paul  30:16  
And I think to summarize, her story is she got COVID. Right? Correct. And ended up dying in the hospital. And it's pretty clear from everything, I could see that that was a tragic and unnecessary death. And so that, therefore sharing this story might save your loved one if you're watching, or even your own life. Walk us through what happened, just sort of the short version?

Scott Schara  30:43  
Sure. So the short version is October 6, Grace and I went to the emergency room, I went with her, of course, and what motivated that trip was for oxygen was low. We had tested it for COVID. On October 1, starting September 28, we started the frontline doctors protocol. So then you think, Well, how did we end up in the hospital for doing all of that? And the reason is, is Dr. Chetty, this is what I believe the reason it is Dr. Chetty, who's a South African doctor who invested the most time in my opinion drilling down these anomalies, his research is on one of the links in Grace's website. Anyway, he has concluded that there's a small percentage of the population that have a genetic disposition, for inflammation and clotting. And I have those, I knew that beforehand. And I also ended up in the hospital three days after Grace died. So Grace would have inherited that for me. And so with those conditions with the Delta variant, it ends up producing low oxygen, so you got to do something. At that time, I had, I really didn't understand that we could get a prescription for oxygen and a steroid in the home. And, of course, if I would have known then what I know today, which is one of the take home messages is that just because you're low on oxygen, doesn't mean you have to check into the hospital, it means you've got to do something, but it doesn't mean checking the hospital. So you know, ultimately, when when I chose to admit grace to the hospital after the emergency room, doctor's recommendation, I signed her death certificate that day. So, you know, the hospital stay itself, there's a few very important points to go through, because they connect some dots that people aren't aware of. So on a macro level, we have what's going on in the United States, you know, from a 30,000 foot view, you have the government incentivizing hospitals to do certain things, then this is COVID gave them a cover to implement an agenda. This agenda, of course, is going to survive COVID And their states that are already codifying agendas that give hospitals permissions that they should never have. And so as it applies to what happened with grace, so when the government is handing out on average $100,000 bonuses to hospitals to follow a COVID agenda that doesn't work. You know, they're using remdesivir, and ventilators which those get all the press, but you know, I'm gonna cover cover those here in Grace's story. But I mean, ultimately, when something doesn't work, why don't you change? I mean, that's what humans do. And then they have immunity from prosecution. And there's a shroud of secrecy, which we get through the shroud of secrecy because I was there. And then my daughter, Jessica was there. So we saw this, which that's what makes this story so important, because we were there and saw it and connected a lot of these dots that that people think about, and they wonder about, but we've connected them because we were there

Dr. Paul  33:58  
pre COVID. If a patient came into the ER and was low on oxygen, say their oxygen saturations were below 90, it was a direct admit to the hospital and you'd put them on oxygen. And if their oxygen continued to go lower, you would intubate. And so everybody in the initial phases of treating COVID went with that approach. And very quickly, I mean, within months, we realized we were killing people. This was not the right approach. And of course, by now, it's common knowledge for anybody that's reading the science, that that's not the right approach. And you know, that better than most doctors. But it's interesting that there seems to be an inability of hospitals and doctors who work in these hospitals to do the right thing. And you spoke to, you know, government agendas and codifying protocols that are dangerous, often fatal. What you've done some research what brings you to this conclusion and finish out the story of what ended up how happening for grace.

Scott Schara  35:00  
So what happened with grace? I mean, I want to go through two exact examples, because they're really indicative of what's happening. But it's, you know, I was there. So this is what's happening with your loved ones when you're not there. So October is October 7 is at midnight is when we got into the hospital. So Grace was first day it was the seventh and October 8, at eight o'clock in the morning, a doctor came in and said, You need to put your daughter on a ventilator in the next two hours. I said, What is that based on? And he said, we took blood gas numbers. Last night, I said, what time he said, 1130. I don't think those numbers are objective, because myself and two of the nurses worked with Grace over a period of about three hours to get the oxygen, right. They had put her on a high flow cannula, which was shooting air up her nostrils, she didn't like that. So we had to get a BiPAP to fit her face. And, you know, her her blood pressure was 235 over 135. And her heart rate was 150, when they took the blood gas numbers. So I said, I want them retaken. And so he did retake them and Grace was fine. So I mean, just process that doing. So this would be a typical excuse they use to vent somebody. So now that the hospital provides the records, assuming the family will request the records, they provide the records after the patient dies, and you see what they've done to them. Well, it's based on this. And so I mean, their records connected that so they become this ironclad thing that you can't challenge. I'm challenging it because we were behind the scenes, then, you know, so then the the related situation with ventilation as they requested. Cindy, my wife, who had the medical power of attorney and I to give them an advanced permission to vet grace, just in case, and just in case was they wanted us to give them that permission. So they had it in their back pocket and they coached it this way. They said these type of things tend to happen in the middle of the night when we can't get over family. Well, that would be putting all the trust in the hospital, which I already had a distrust, which, you know, that's that should be your nature. But now my trust level is at 0% for these hospitals that have drank the Kool Aid, because they're you don't go into a hospital thinking their goal is to take you out. Because there's a white coat phenomena that I felt trapped to but you know, everybody's gonna fall trap to that. But if you believe what I'm telling you, you won't fall trap to it because you think, Okay, I have to be on guard, because their goal is way different than mine.

So we've never approved a ventilator Grace never came close to needing a ventilator. But I'm just connecting those dots so people know what's going on. And the second example is happened on October 9, which was Saturday morning, Grace was hungry, I ordered food started feeding her. And the nurse came running in and said you can't do that. I said, Well, what's the reason? And she said, Well, her oxygen saturation is only at 85%. So a fortunately had all of my COVID materials in the room. And it's really not fortunate. I mean, my expectation, and the hospital already told me I'm gonna get cold, but by staying with graves, you know, that just makes sense, right? So I thought, Well, I mean, I've got to stay here big deal if I get cold. And so I had my own oxygen saturation leader in the room. So I put it on Gracies finger thinking this can't be I mean, she's on a BiPAP. You know, she's got she should be at 100%. So I put my meter on, and she didn't read 95%. So I called the nurse back in and I asked her if my meter was right. And she said, Yes. So I said, Well, what is the reason my $50 meter is more accurate than your $50,000 theater? And she said, the leads get sweaty, and said, Well, if you know that, why don't you proactively change them out every three, four hours or whatever it takes to have an accurate reading. Given that this is the primary statistic you are using to determine my daughter's care. And she's not only responded, you should just be thankful you caught this. After the fact I got the bill that they sent to Medicaid, they only change those leads out three times in seven days at a cost build cost of $78 per lead. So I mean, that's insane. But this is again, how they can connect the dots with this shroud of secrecy as to why event is necessary. So they're arbitrarily lowering the oxygen numbers. So now they can justify an event to the family. So you think well why do they want this event? Well, the money trail is so significant ventilation is the single most important event that maximizes the hospital's rate of return. They get a $39,000 bonus from the patient goes on event, they get an ICU bonus, and the average time they keep somebody alive on events is 22 days. So It approaches about 300,000, between bonuses and the insurance and patient reimbursements that they get by keeping somebody on event. So it's crazy on the 85% of the patients on COVID, or with COVID, that they put on event die, and it's only 15% walk out. And most of that 15% die in the next year because of the damage the vent did to their lungs. So I mean, it's totally against the patient totally for the hospital system making money. So the next significant thing which is minor in the scheme of things, but it just shows their agenda is Sunday morning, the tenant had nurse at seven o'clock came in Grace's room with an armed guard and told me I need to leave immediately. And then so after an hour of arguing with her, the armed guard walked me out to the truck. And, you know, he heard all of this and said, Scott, you need to take this to a higher level. You know, ultimately, she told me that the last three shifts of nurses don't want me in the room. And I mean by the stories, I'm telling you, you see why they didn't want me in there. Well, during that window then, so now we have to we have to negotiate. Grace had a right to an advocate under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Everybody has a right to an advocate as a human but I mean, she had a right that's, that's embedded in the Americans Disabilities Act, VA. So our special needs attorney had to negotiate with the hospital attorney. And then we had a 44 hour gap without an advocate. So during that 44 hours, actually starting before that, while I was still in the room, they started grace on a sedative called Praesent x, which Grace grace had Down syndrome. She was just a wonderful loving kid. She never needed to be on a Saturday. This last or last day she needed to be on a Saturday it was but it's because of what the hospital did to her. So they started around this, this drug called precedents, precedents, gave them an ICU bonus. That's significant, not just because of the bonus that they receive. But once a patient is labeled ICU, they never changed. The room never changed her level of care, but they labeled her ICU as soon as she was on this sedation drug.

Dr. Paul  42:21  
And she wasn't actually in the ICU at that point.

Scott Schara  42:24  
She's never was in the ICU. She was just the room stayed the same. So I mean, it was really a the

Dr. Paul  42:34  
techniques and make more money.

Scott Schara  42:36  
Well, it as I understood it from other nurses who have invested time in COVID. It's not just about money, but they're setting people up with precedents so that when they need a ventilator, they can boom, it's just automatic. They don't have to prep, they can just go and when I say need, of course I mean need quotes, because the people don't need a ventilator they need to be cared for and, and follow up protocols that get them well. So so there they have her on this precedence drug. The, if you try to get a patient out of the hospital, when they're classified as ICU, it's called against medical advice. That's significant. Because now you want to get your loved one out. The only thing you really can do at that point, the way I understand it is take care of the hospital I'm taking taking him or her home. And then the only way they'll release the patient is if you agreed to pay their bill and they come home and as a hospice patient, which is fine. I mean, you save their life. Big deal about the bill and big deal about hospice. I mean, they're not going to need hospice long, if they're on care protocol to give them well. So now this last day, so my my daughter Jessica, my wife couldn't be a replacement advocate because she had COVID. At that time my daughter Jessica comes in as the replacement advocate. She spends the whole day through the night with grace on Tuesday to 12 this is the day before Grace's last day. Grace had a great day. The before she went to bed that night, they made a FaceTime call with Jessica's two boys Grace's nephews, our grandsons, and gray set up through the BiPAP and hollers. Hi boys. It just was great. The next morning the doctor even commented. So at eight o'clock in the morning, I'm Grace's last day he said Grace had such a good day yesterday, I think we should do a feeding tube. Cindy and I foolishly approved that and I say foolishly because for two reasons. One is we should have been challenging the fact that they weren't feeding her. She needed a feeding tube because she was malnutrition. Why? Well because they stopped me from feeding her. They stopped my daughter Jessica from feeding her. The nurses only gave her a few protein shakes. The facts were I shared this and you know this is one reason I got kicked out. I challenged the nurses they said you guys can feed her there's no reason you can you They said, Well, her oxygen goes down. I said it doesn't. I know that because they were cleaning Grace's mouth because of the bypass. And what they would do when they cleaned her mouth is they put the cannula in and turn the high flow down to low flow. And the oxygen state fine Grace was fine during that. So all they had to do was put the cannula in feeder. But so now this last day on peels, and it's so horrendous women tell you this is like why the story needs to get out there. So get about 830 My daughter Jessica wanted to take a shower, she figured she's gonna be there, three, four days to Grace get out. They tell her you have to go home to take a shower. There's a shower in the room. I took a shower every day I was there in the room, but they told her that specific day you have to go home. So she went home she is back inside of an hour, she comes back starts going up. she overhears two doctors and the nurse say the family is not going to like this. So she said what aren't they going to Lake. And they said we have to restrain grace, which means strap her down to a bed. So she said Why did you do that? And they said well, because she wanted to go get out of bed and go to the bathroom. This is sick. So I mean, how I got waste. Really a lot of the research I've done on the why specific to grace and then taking it to this bigger view is one of the attorneys that we are working with asked me Scott, do you think that you would have been strapped down to a bed? If you had to go to the bathroom? I said no, I wouldn't have they did this because breaks that down syndrome. And so then I drilled down the records and found grace had 22 Doctor visits during the week that she was in the hospital. How do I know that because every time the doctor comes in yesterday, he or she has to read a report. In those 22 visits. They commented that Grace had Down syndrome 36 different times. That doesn't make any sense. I mean, that would be like saying 50 Why would they have to say if I'm in the hospital? 58 year old gray haired male do they need to say that 58 time? Great. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. So

so now they use that as an excuse to ratchet up precedents. Now they put the feeding tube in next. The nurses are Jessica even challenges. And in the nurses see her oxygen is not supporting the feeding tube. Let's get her rebounding because remember, she just got done being strapped down. So now they put the feeding tube and now they ratchet up the precedents to a maximum dose 14 times the dose that they started around for four and a half days earlier. As you get closer to these events that took her out. Now she's at 546. In the evening, she's at 14 times doors, precedents, Max doors, they give her a dose of Lorazepam. Three minutes later, they give her another dose of Lorazepam at 615. They give her a two milligram dose of morphine as a push. One of the intensivists who wrote me after he saw that combination of meds he emailed me I just read it. He emailed and said, Scott, the drugs killed your daughter. Sick you and I couldn't have survived that combination. So what what's the reason they did that? And you know, so I suspect the reason was, as I have drilled down the money is that the money trail was not there with grace the day they took Grace out. She was at they were the hospitals that maximum capacity. If you go back to when Grace and I were in the emergency room, we waited 10 hours in the emergency room to get transferred to a room on the COVID floor. What's the reason we waited 10 hours by by translation of that waiting was waiting for somebody to die?

Dr. Paul  49:14  
Yeah, no beds. I have to comment on I went to your website where you have the tragedy Thou shalt not kill last day Lorazepam and morphine, as I read that sequence of medications. So I'm an addictionologist. I was board certified for over a decade, I took care of mostly opiate addicts. And I refused basically to write for any benzodiazepines. Because we know in the world of medicine, and especially those of us who deal with addiction, you cannot add a benzodiazepine and a opiate without suppressing respiration with a very high risk of shutting it off. I mean death you suppress The desire to breathe, you shut it off. And so I mean, poor grace. She even had the heavy duty sedative as well.

Scott Schara  50:10  
Oh, It's sickening in the package insert for morphine is the most damning document out there. It's on Grace's website and the first page which has a blackbox warning that says exactly so you don't combine those mounts

Dr. Paul  50:24  
because those should never be combined. And all they had to do was give a dose of Narcan as soon as they realized they'd made a mistake. Because whoever pushed that morphine, how soon after pushing that morphine did she die. But our 15 minutes, I'm surprised she lasted that long. But all they needed to do was give Narcan, they could reverse that morphine effect.

Scott Schara  50:44  
That's right on and when, when you when you hear what happened. Next, it becomes unbelievable. And then the doctor who reviewed the records, we got all the hospital records and processes are Greek to me, guide learned, I know a lot more now and to talk about it freely. But I mean, at that time, she walked through all of these records with us when we did the research. And she wrote that by combining those and just reading what you wrote. That combination of meds she even crossed the line to say, by doing that it's it's beyond believable as to intention that that's how the position she took because it's so far out there. So now when you get when you drill it down next it gets it gets substantially worse. So now Jessica's in the room, she feels Grace getting cold, she asked the nurse about race being cold, and wants a temperature taken and then there's tells Jessica that's normal. What's normal, if you want to kill somebody, it's not normal at all. She just gives her a blanket. So now Jessica calls Cindy and I via a FaceTime call at 720. And she said Dad, Grace's numbers are dropping like crazy. I said get the nurses. Yeah. She said I have been trying they won't come in. She estimated 30 nurses outside the door at this point. Because of the shift change. So we started out in Sydney at eight save our daughter they holler back. She's DNR Do Not Resuscitate. We holler, she's not DNR, save our daughter. This is the first we knew she's DNR. Jessica ran on the hallway. And what she was told I was going to read it. So Jessica and I each wrote a report and Jessica's report, then, thankfully, we found this in the in the detailed doctor's reports. It's not in the doctor reports that they wrote that day. Because you just think, you know, when this gets to the point where there's going to be a court case, where is this going? You know, so we wrote all of our reports. right afterward, I was taking notes in the hospital. So we have contemporaneous records. Jessica wrote one nurse read off what the computer stated and that the doctor labeled her as a DNR, which they claimed they couldn't do anything about the hospitals official response to us as that we approved the DNR. Well, just to go with what a sense of a lie that is. The state statute in Wisconsin says specifically the health care agent, which is my wife must request the DNR number one, we must consent to the DNR and then it has to be in writing and saying the excuse the hospital uses was from the conversation that that the doctor had with us at eight o'clock that morning. He dictated his notes at 1257. So if he honestly thought that my wife and I moved the DNR after Grace just had a great day, the next thing would be sign this piece of paper. There's nothing first why? Because braces, you know, we're not why would we be talking about DNR we just approved a feed into

Dr. Paul  53:50  
Yeah. Wow, I am so sorry that you've had to go through this. In a in a short minute or two? Can you outline for people who are watching? What would you do differently? Now having gone through this?

Scott Schara  54:03  
What would I do different is that it? My mindset has to be a different paradigm. So the paradigms I'm 58 I mean, the paradigm of the hospital is similar to the school I mean, the public school system when I was a kid is not the same. They're teaching critical race theory there that want to vaccinate your kids when you're not looking, you know, all these things are unconscionable what the hospitals are doing, not all of them. But what the hospitals are doing if they bought into the government protocol is it's a different paradigm. Their goal is to pare down the population. And I have come to that conclusion because the hospitals that are the first line that know who is on Medicare, the elderly, and who is on Medicaid, the disabled, and there is such a financial incentive to take these people out because of our macro agenda and the hospitals that want the money for following that script you gotta run away from and don't. You got to do your homework before you get there. Once you're in the emergency room, it's too late to figure this out. So that's the short term message that I want people to know right now. That's why I've been working six days a week just getting this message out. And why I have all the research posted on the website.

Dr. Paul  55:24  
Yeah, thank you for all that hard work. And in closing, I it touches my heart and my soul, that you believe that there is God's purpose in this tragedy. Can you share a little bit of how you feel God fits into this?

Scott Schara  55:42  
Well, he fits in for each person, of course. So you know, so I believe in God, I believe God is sovereign. How he fits in it for me is that I have a doctor and nurse who I know their names who killed my daughter. So in order for me to tell this story, I have to have forgiven them. So why why would I possibly forgive them? Why can't I my own guy they had to do that. But that you don't have the power in yourself to forgive somebody kills your your best buddy. So how can I reconcile it? Well, God forgave me. I mean, I'm, I'm a terrible sinner that he forgave.

Dr. Paul  56:20  
Yeah. Amen. Brother, our amazing grace.net If you don't get your heart pricked by visiting, learning about what happened, seeing the love that exists that just comes through. And Scott, thank you for caring on Grace's mission, right? I've lived as a pediatrician with several stories of tragedy, and it's just so Oh, I don't know, it just touches my heart and soul when I see what parents can do, to have that legacy be for the good for God's greater good. And so thank you. God bless you. I'll leave you with closing thoughts and words to share with the audience.

Scott Schara  57:10  
Well, I would say this in closing, so first, of course, thank you for having me. I can't believe the interest people have in the story. So I'm humbled and honored, every time I get a chance to share this, it's, it's quite a miracle to me. The 1000s of people who are praying for, for us, I just appreciate it. Our GoFundMe page got shut down. Which you know, for, for us sharing propaganda, you know, look at web Grace's website. It's no propaganda. And you know, so that got shut down. I had somebody spoof my cell phone number and called the bank with one of our account numbers tried to get money out, you know, so you know, these are those are minor things. But you know, as this story goes national, you know, it's going to be more attacks and I don't plan on shutting up.

Dr. Paul  58:09  
Thank you for that. And folks, give send go I know you have on your website are amazing grace dotnet. There is a link to your gifts and go. fundraiser, this is to get the word out to share the message and reach more people. You have so many important resources on your website. Thank you for building that. And God bless you.

Scott Schara  58:32  
So thanks a lot. While I sure appreciate it.

Dr. Paul  58:46  
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