Show 19: Transcript

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Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. I'm Dr. Paul, your host. Today's show features a discussion with Pam popper. She is the president of the wellness forum and co author of a book COVID operation. What happened, why it happened? And what's next? I asked her those very questions. What happened? Why did this happen and what's next? It was a powerful interview, and she gives tips for decision making, and how to organize like minded individuals. I also interviewed Dr. Chris Shaw, he's a professor in Canada. He's an aluminum expert, author of the book dispatches from the vaccine wars, fighting for human freedom. During the Great reset. We're going to talk about vaccine mandates, COVID testing COVID vaccine adverse effects, and censorship. And then we end with a discussion of what's in the news that you're not getting on mainstream news. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart, I believe things will change for the better. I'm still going to fight for my medical licenses, I've done nothing wrong. But I want to share with you an experience. You know, people across the globe across the country of the United States that I live in, are having different experiences to what's going on with COVID-19 with the response to COVID 19. So I was speaking at a conference in Utah this past week. And we spoke indoors to 500 people. No one was wearing a mask. There was no concern for social distancing. So I polled the audience. I said, How many of you have had COVID-19. And about half the hands went up. That was a surprise. I have not experienced that level of COVID 19 infection in my community. Of course, I'm a pediatrician, and kids are often not even exhibiting symptoms, which might be part of it. But still, even in the adults, I know. I'm in Oregon, I have not seen that level of COVID-19 infection. So then I asked, well, how many of you are those you love in your family have ended up in the hospital, and two hands went up? How many of you have you have died, there were no deaths. So this was interesting to me, because it was such a contrast to my experience that I have in the state that I'm living in, in Oregon, where children lined up to take the bus are masked outdoors six feet apart. The only interaction they can have is on their cell phone on their screen. There was just something sad about that to me. So what I want to share with you from my heart today is that Be patient, be loving. I want to leave you with hope. stay true. Be gentle and kind to yourself and to your loved ones. Because things will get better.

Welcome to against the wind, doctors in science under fire. Dr. Paul here and it's my privilege to welcome Dr. Pam popper. You're the president of the wellness forum. You're an author and educator. And I'm most interested in your recent book that you're the co author of the explosive book COVID operation, what happened, why it happened and what's next.

Dr. Pam Popper  3:39  
I've been in the healthcare business for 27 years and we do a lot of things at my company. But one of them's I guess you could call it medical journalism, we investigate things and report on them. And our practice specialty really is informed medical decision making. So I'm always digging into the medical literature, what's really going on with this what's going and there have been a lot of fake pandemics. I also have been watching over the last 50 years and you've been in the middle of this to this escalating medical tyranny where the government and the drug companies and the and and medical cartel really is what it is get together and decide how to control people's lives. And they they do it with kind of a ruthless approach. So so I figured this was just like their grand slam home run, been rehearsing for it for a long time. And then there we were, I did not really know that this was going to be like global lockdown and all that but I had this terrible feeling that something really bad was going to happen. And by May, I was mobilizing to start making Americans free again. So what happened is for decades, we've been going in the wrong direction. These people started planning for this about 1012 years ago, and they pulled off the crime of the century is really what it has turned out to be.

Dr. Paul  4:56  
Yeah, yeah, it's it's certainly Creating a weird world that I live in as a regular doctor pediatrician. I am not allowed to speak on certain topics. I'm not allowed to share science if it's not the science that the meets this narrative. Right? Right. It's, it's become rather unreal. And so our we're finding families are divided. Doctors are divided. Everybody's all polarized on this. I mean, what's what's next? What do you see? Where do we go? What do you think's going to happen?

Dr. Pam Popper  5:33  
Yeah, well, I want to just say something about you mentioned that you're, you're censored. Like, you have to be careful what you say, right? And this makes me very nervous. And I'll tell you why. You know, Hitler, when he was in charge of Germany, one of the things he did long before the work started Is he really had the healthcare system working for the Nazi regime. And there's a great documentary I've been recommending that people watch called the killing nurses of the Third Reich. And it was all about how long before the war started, it started with who he thought were undesirables, children with Down syndrome, where if you had a mentally retarded and to live with you, or something of that nature, they would take these people and say, we're going to put them in places and institutions where they'll be taken care of, and then they would kill them. And you know, who did the killing the doctors and nurses who worked for the Reich. And so if we don't turn this around, what's going to happen is all doctors with integrity, like you will leave the system, you won't kill people for them. But what will be left as the people who will do it, and we've seen a remarkable willingness of many, many doctors to go along with this narrative. It's scary how many have bought into it, so So I think that's important. What's next, if we don't stop them, I mean, I we're trying to stop them. But, but if we don't stop them, they're going to annihilate most of the people who live in the world. And this is this makes these people much more dangerous than Hitler and the Nazis because the Nazis hated Jews, black people, and Gypsies, these people hate everybody. And they want to take out about 6 billion people. And they want to install a form of communism, they've already done it here in the United States, we're actually living under a communist regime, whether people understand that that's what's going on or not. And, and the state will own everything and will have nothing and will be serfs at the state if we're able to survive and stay alive. And that's a pretty dire warning. But I've I've been right about all of it since since the beginning. And I was waiting to be wrong, because that would be a beautiful gift to humanity. But I haven't been wrong about any of it. And you can read this and Klaus Schwab's book, by the way, he says that he visualizes a world with a billion people hoping that most of them will be Asian, because they'll follow directions better. Right? That's what they want.

Dr. Paul  7:47  
So I've got to challenge you a little bit on that. How would the pharmaceutical companies that are somewhat tied in and behind this, how would they profit and benefit if they lose, you know, 660 70 80% of their market?

Dr. Pam Popper  8:05  
Well look at it this way. Let's say that you and I are diabolical, murdering criminals. And we figure out a way to get $100 from 7 billion people, 6 billion of them one time, and then they're gone. Do we really care? We'd be rich beyond our wildest imaginings, we'd have enough money to actually control the entire world, just the two of us. Right.

Dr. Paul  8:27  
So so it's a short term thinking you you think? Yeah, well, it's

Dr. Pam Popper  8:31  
a short term thinking, and they're they're concerned, they've always been concerned about right now. I mean, I have to believe that that, you know, I go back to pre before all this started, and that I'm sure you're aware of that meeting that the World Health Organization held, and they said vaccine hesitancy was the biggest problem in the world right had to be overcome. And that woman from I think it was Oxford made the comment that we got to stop calling these people names, we're going to have to do the studies that they're asking for and all that. And so they're they're not their days were limited then. But they were looking at how much money could could you make and they were making billions of dollars every year hurting and killing children. All right. And they hadn't even started I mean, in the in the United States, most states wouldn't allow them to take away resist religious exemptions and all that but, but that that noose was going to tighten and they were obviously going to kill and disable so many children that the vaccine hesitancy would become a significant percentage of the population. So they are interested in short term game, because eventually they hurt so many people that people start opting out. There are a lot of, you know, to your point, this is so dark. before we're finished, I do want to talk about what they've done wrong because I've been watching this for I don't sleep at all anymore. I have a lot of time to think about this. And I look for opportunities to fix this based on how much they've screwed up and they have screwed up royally on this situation. And that's what that's how we're going to fix it. Okay,

Dr. Paul  10:00  
okay, well tell me then let's go there and what have they done wrong? Because I know you've been involved with some court cases and legal actions. Have you had any successes, but also start off with what have they done wrong, which has given you perhaps an opening, what we

Dr. Pam Popper  10:14  
do is we look at the upside and the downside, all right. They'll say, Okay, so we're gonna, it's gonna cost this much money, can we afford it? And then this is what we think is gonna happen. But then we look at like, what if it doesn't work out that way? Like, what when do we stop spending money? At what point in time? Do we say this was maybe not a good plan? And we've had been in business 27 years. So I've had some things that didn't work out, like we thought, right. One of the first things I think is interesting is I went back and I looked at all of their planning documents and everything else. And they really never did much on the what goes wrong, like, go back and watch event 201. They pull it off. They weren't they went, you know what, we did it right? Yeah, there's none. None of this, like what happens when things go wrong? So what happens? What has happened that's gone wrong for them? Well, the first thing is that all countries signed an agreement in 2005, that they would go along with whatever needs to be done. If there was a pandemic, everybody would act in the same way, which is not a bad idea of some kind of bubonic plague was, I mean, I don't want to walk out on the sidewalk and die, right? Well, but in this case, they didn't do that. I mean, many countries opted out sweet and refused to lock down, they couldn't get the guy in Tanzania to test everybody. And so that started, you have all this inconsistent stuff. And then somebody else was supposed to be president and Trump wouldn't lock down the countries that the states have the rights, which is right. So Florida, locks down for a month and opens up and Christina won't lock down North, South Dakota. So now it's like herding cats, you know, because you have all this inconvenient data. And while they were controlling the media, and they still are, and they could keep the propaganda machine going, you know, this, this was not turning out the way they thought they had to constantly say, oh, no, no, no, no, that big motorcycle convention in South Dakota, they all died, you know, but people are going my neighbor went to it. He's not dead, you know. So. So the inconvenient data and then the they were so there was so much propaganda that the media started losing its audience. I mean, I'm not kidding when I say I can afford to advertise on CNN right now. That's how low their audience numbers are. Well, where did all those people go? They're not listening to the propaganda. Now, there's still enough people listening to keep this going. But everybody's listening to other stuff like this. Okay, so that was a big mistake if they overplayed their hand on that. And, and so those are some of the things that have gone wrong. And I think this latest declaration from Biden, it's been the greatest recruiting tool we've ever had. Okay, I couldn't have asked for something better, because now people are writing to me, and they say, I voted for this guy, and he's a moron. I'm signing up for what you're doing. Tell me what to do, you know, so that they've overplayed their hands. And I think they didn't count on people like us. They didn't count on the resistance and the inconsistency in the States and all that. So they're, they're in deep trouble. And they're scrambling around right now, which is why their message is so incoherent figure out what to do. So it's not all doom and gloom. It's just we have to continue to be smarter than they are, man. And it's easy to be smart. When the other side is panic. It's very easy to be the grown up in the room, you know?

Dr. Paul  13:22  
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are fighting a fairly broad, massive propaganda machine. I mean, my own family and they know how I feel about science and vaccines and, and yet, my parents and most of my siblings have taken the COVID vaccine. Well, if you call it a vaccine, and right, yeah, and, and I my office, integrative pediatrics, the foundation of our practices, informed consent. And more than half of my staff have taken the vaccine because of the fear that people live under. It's we've we're fighting a rough battle, aren't we?

Dr. Pam Popper  14:04  
We are, but we're gonna win it since the beginning. I've had this calm, like when everybody else literally was like pants on fire. And just the is still going on here that people like, just visualize waving their arms going, Oh, my God, my pants are on fire. Right? Right. But I just have this incredible calm and it's like, we're going to start an organization, we're going to gather up 80 million people, we're going to overcome the system, we're going to sue them we're going to do this and that. And I kind of felt his strange kind of way like I was made for this time. Like I've been practicing for it. Like for so long. It's like I'm the person who's supposed to do it. It's not a coincidence that I knew about all this stuff did all this space search and that we have all these resources and it would be terrible to have the ability to do something about it, not do it. So that's how this all began.

Dr. Paul  14:50  
Yeah, that's fantastic. Tell me more about make Americans free again.

Dr. Pam Popper  14:54  
So when I when I took it on, I said okay, I'm gonna do this. I will take it on and I find I find it except for the attorneys almost all myself, all right, we have a couple of staff people. Now we had to do that, because we're taking enormous numbers of calls and all that day. But But anyway, so if I'm going to do it, then we have to stay away from the things that haven't worked in the past. So here is the list of stuff people love to do. They like to go to protests, and I think you should go it's a great street party, but it doesn't change anything. Right? They like to do petitions and declarations, because that's easy sign your name? Well, the Great Barrington decoracion have a half million signatures, third of them health care professionals, nothing happened right? Now. They like to write letters to their elected officials who are no longer elected officials, we have the ruling class, and those are the governors that used to be governors, now their emperor is an emphasis and I coined that term, everybody uses it. Now, I'll take credit for that. The legislatures are completely useless. They won't do anything to help anybody. So that doesn't work, expert testimony, scientific articles, these people are not persuadable with information. So what are you going to do? Well, you're going to have to file lawsuits, and you're gonna have to file smart lawsuits. You don't realize there have been 5000 failed lawsuits in the United States since this started 5000. Right. We've been at this since August of last year, and not a single case that we filed has been thrown out on merits are standing. I mean, it's a spectacular track record, less cases, but much more threatening to the other side. And we win when we file. In other words, in Ohio. This is something a lot of people don't know, our state was the model state for the whole thing. All right. And the reason was, they needed a Midwestern, Republican, real popular guy who'd be great on Fox, but would also be great on MSNBC and all that. And he was he came out he would care about his people. And they say what a great guy he was, and all that. So we were forced to lock down. We were forced to close schools first to close bars and restaurants first to cancel major events, all that right. We knew there was going to be a second lockdown. And if you go back and you watch Mr. dewine, the Emperor to Lyons press conferences he was getting, he's about four feet tall. So he kind appears over the lectern like this to make his speeches every day. But he was getting out. He was escalating and getting kind of full of himself and on August 31, at two o'clock, he had a big announcement. He's going to set up camps all over the state to put quarantines right and he let it slip, the federal government would reimburse him. When cost the state any money, he gets money to lock people up. And he ordered every public college and university set aside space. So we figured he was going to lock up like 10 to 20,000 people. That was at two o'clock, on August 31. At 830. Tom runs our attorney hit send on that first lawsuit. We never got shut down again, didn't happen here. He had all kinds of rules, like he had a curfew. So we actually sent people out driving around from 10pm to 5am for weeks. And we told him like go through police stations and honk your horn with trying to get arrested, alright, couldn't get arrested, then then the businesses would get shut down for 24 hours if they had to infractions on not enforcing the mouse mandate. We set crews of people out who reported themselves took pictures 20 People in Walmart, no mask could not get anybody shut down. The Gathering limits were 10 We had a fundraiser with 200 people. No problem. All right. And to tell put it in perspective, the lawsuit what it had an effect on this guy is that during the entire time with the mass, the gathering limits the whole nine yards in Franklin County where I live 2 million people. There were 20 citations. And every one of those people won in court. 22 million people had 20 infractions. And they all got thrown out, right? So you win when you file and then where they're panicked is discovery. And that's what all the wrangling and court has done on all of our cases is getting to the place where we can depose vouching and get the documents from CDC, and we're inching our way. You know, litigations kind of like watching paint dry?

Dr. Paul  19:03  
Yeah, it could be years. Yeah,

Dr. Pam Popper  19:05  
it will be but we'll get there. Yeah, for sure.

Dr. Paul  19:08  
Well, that's, that's really great. Have you had any legal actions that have actually sort of gotten the whole length of, of where they need to go? I'm not an attorney. So I don't know these things?

Dr. Pam Popper  19:20  
And no, because what happens is, I'll tell you what the initial part is all about. So when you file a lawsuit like this, our first filing was 627 pages of evidence. Whoa, reference data evidence. There's no I mean, it was hard to ignore, right? So the first thing you would do and by the way, you and I would do this to somebody filed a major lawsuit against us, we would file what's called a 12 b motion to dismiss. Okay, so they did not surprising. Then you write your response, and then they get to respond and you get to respond. So you spend the first year fighting 12 emotions and we've won every one of them. Nobody's gotten anything dismissed against us. That's pretty remarkable. All right. Now we're out The place where it's time to move forward. And this is the panicked moment that they've been trying to avoid, because they know they're lying. I mean, and they know that we're going to sooner or later get what we want, and by the way, but the the overall legal strategy is not just to file smart lawsuits, it's to file and file and file and file and file all kinds of jurisdictions all over the place. This is how the Sackler family actually got in trouble in the end, and they've been treated way to kind let me Don't misunderstand. These are the folks who own Purdue and killed hundreds of 1000s of people with oxy cotton, right? Well, one of the things they did to avoid problems is they sent attorneys out with blank checks to just settle everything and seal the record. So nobody could ever build a case against them for further criminal activity. Well, eventually, everybody got together and said, We're going to file and file and file and found someplace in America as a judge who's going to unseal some of those records. And then Ohio is the judge damn pollster who ordered all that stuff released. And, and that's what eventually hurt the Sacklers. And people were upset because they got some immunity, and they're still rich, but let me tell you, if you read the background of that family, when they were forced to take their names off of all the buildings and all that the damage to their reputation means so much more to them than even prison. So they've been they've been punished based on what they think punishment is. So our strategy to file and file is is really important to the whole thing, because we don't need to depose Mr. Fauci 37 times. We just need a one time for about four days, and then all the legal, all of our attorneys will share that data. Right. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  21:38  
So a couple final questions with a little time we have left. What's your recommendation for the common person who's facing job discrimination? So there are employers saying, you're not able to work here due to mandates or whatever?

Dr. Pam Popper  21:54  
Yeah, it depends on the situation with healthcare workers, we've been I've been I've got conference calls regularly for everybody in the United States who wants to participate. By the way, my email address is Pam [email protected]. I give it out, we respond to everybody. So we'll help you. But one of the things we've been telling healthcare workers is to understand the importance of what we call a sizeable minority. In other words, the hospital system, the medical system was really stressed before this started, like the estimated shortage of nurses was a half a million or more. So one person told me in California, for example, that a Kaiser hospital, losing 30 employees would be catastrophic. And so you're starting to see that happen. The one New York Hospital said we can't deliver babies anymore. I won't tell you which one for obvious reasons. But there's a hospital that we know of where the 12 nurses may close the whole mandate down. And the reason is that it's the entirety of the dialysis nurses, if they walk off, if these 12 nurses walk out, they're done. They're good, they're basically going to have to say, look, at least you have to come back for a while. All right? Well, now you're starting to chip away at it, right. So so. So that's one thing. Another thing is the sizable minority and a regular business. So I'll just speak about my own. I mean, I would never mandate a vaccine. But my company isn't like 1000s of people. But I will tell you, if I went back to the office this afternoon, and five of my employees, particularly the key ones are standing on the sidewalk and saying, Pam, we're not going back inside. Unless we all get a raise. I'd have to do it, at least for now. I mean, I don't know what I'm going to do we have a food company, we have a yoga studio and a school. I mean, I can't teach the classes and make the food. I mean, you know what I'm saying? So, right. So you can disable a company with with a fairly small number of people who just say no way. And don't don't underestimate that power that you have.

Dr. Paul  23:50  
Yeah. And what would you say to the business owners who are being threatened with huge fines if they don't impose these mandates?

Dr. Pam Popper  23:58  
Well, I was talking to one of my oldest students last night, who is a HR manager for a big company, who's based somewhere else, and they are getting so much feedback, negative feedback, and everything else, they are actually looking at paying the fine rather than doing it. And, and the reason is that they can't afford for all these people to quit, they've already figured that out. They also can't afford to have the ill will like it. Like you've got some people who would just quit then you have some people would say, Okay, I'll do it. And this is a guy, I can speak to this from my own situation. I own the company. But there are a million ways in which people can make my life miserable. All right. If I if I just say, well, we're going to do it my way. It's my way or the highway, right? Is that sounds good. But then you got to go to work the next morning and everything's all screwed up because everybody's sideways, you know, so, so this person told me that they may just pay the fine To avoid the Ill Will from the employees, the only thing I would say to an employer is you need to be really careful about what you do. Because when this is over, and this is a message, I also want to say to any health care professionals who are engaged in this bad behavior that you and I were talking about earlier, when this is over, the lawsuits are going to go on forever. This is going to be like Nazi hunting, which the war ended in 45. And we're still hunting Nazis today, right? And we should, once this is over for the next few decades, we and others will be going after all the bad actors, including the employers who hurt or killed their employees with this thing, till the end of time. And I've said this, I'm 64, I think I will live to be 100 and spend my last day, the morning we'll be in court going after bad guys, then I'll teach a couple of classes and go to bed and just not get up the next day. But I'm going to be one of those people who's going to be going after the folks who did this. So keep in mind that it's all you can't going along, doesn't exempt you from liability, and somebody else made me do it. Well, that's what a lot of people said, when they were collaborating with the Nazis. And it didn't work out too well for him. And by the way, lots of doctors and nurses who were involved in Hitler's diabolical plan, not working in the camps, I'm talking about outside that lots of them were put to death for what they did. And so you're going to be chased to the end of the earth, just like the Nazis are still being hunted. If you don't straighten up and fly, right. That's my message.

Dr. Paul  26:33  
Well, there's your warning folks. And your parting words, Pam, what resources do you recommend? Where should people seek information?

Dr. Pam Popper  26:42  
Well, our website is make American spray again, calm, you can donate there, you can buy merchandise there, I hold conference calls every week, live and interactive, and show people how to organize with us. And we're starting groups all over the place, the best thing you can do is start a Thursday group. Okay, my Thursday groups like 100, and some people, everybody found new churches, new friends, new jobs, we've had eight or 10 people in our group who've gotten new jobs through the group, I've hired three of them myself, all right. It's how everybody gets everything done is Thursday groups, right. So we'll help you start a group. If you're a healthcare worker, send me an email, Pam [email protected], and get you on our conference calls, we'll help get you started. And we have a long term. And I think you'll be interested in this, we have a long term plan for healthcare professionals, too, if we can get 5% of them to pay us $100 A year we'll have $115 million a year to defend people against vaccine mandates, attacks on licenses, attacks. I'm a naturopath who isn't licensed, they can attack me, we have to clean up this regulatory network. So this is something that we intend to pursue long after this is over. So you know, plug into a conference call find out about all that to thank you

Dr. Paul  27:53  
for making all those resources available, folks. If you are of the mind that no, there's nothing that's going to make me roll up my sleeve and get a shot that could kill me that has has almost no benefit, if any at all, but certainly has a high risk for great harm, then you're gonna have to stand your ground you need to find like minded people. And Pam, it sounds like you've given us a mechanism for finding each other. So thank you for that.

Dr. Pam Popper  28:21  
Thank you.

Dr. Paul  28:22  
Thanks for being on the show. I look forward to talking with you again.

Dr. Pam Popper  28:25  
Absolutely. Thanks so much.

Dr. Paul  28:32  
Welcome to another episode of against the wind doctors in science under fire is my privilege to have Dr. Chris Shaw. Thank you for joining us, Chris.

Dr. Chris Shaw  28:42  
Thank you. Thank you, Paul. Happy to be here.

Dr. Paul  28:44  
You are a university professor, a neuroscientist, you studied neurological disorders from ALS to autism spectrum. I'm actually very excited about your book that's just come out dispatches from the vaccine wars fighting for human freedom during the Great reset, maybe just touch on aluminum. I know you've been studying this a lot. It's in, you know, virtually half of the vaccines that we give on the CDC schedule. Maybe you could summarize some key points for our viewers,

Dr. Chris Shaw  29:12  
most people who approach any kind of hesitancy about vaccines in general or aluminum in vaccines really come to it through what we call running into the bus stop. They you know, they got their shots, they believe the CDC everything was safe and effective. And then someone got sick or got hurt. And in the case of autism spectrum disorder, you know, obviously children. So we started looking at what had been was starting to be identified as a possible causal feature of Gulf War Syndrome, and the neurological components, which was the number of vaccines the soldiers got, whether they deployed or not, and that made it interesting. And one of the first things that really struck us whether it really was the anthrax vaccine or any of the others was many of them were adjuvant with aluminum So now I vaguely knew that aluminum could be toxic. I vaguely knew that there was this thing called dialysis associated associated encephalopathy. And but you know, that was very high doses of, you know, Indian dialysis fluid. So we've heard well, I can't be that. But you know, that's what you do when you think it can't be that you go do the experiment to find out which of course, the CDC and the FDA, if they had the capacity should have done long time ago, you know, this didn't work, it won't, we'll talk about this, many people can't view it that way. They see if you if you criticize anything about vaccines, you must be an anti Vaxxer. So all it takes is that, you know, 1% deviation from the mainstream allopathic medicine narrative, all of a sudden puts you in trouble. We did a lot of studies, we did some human data studies, for taking CDC data taking other health agency data, and looking at the the ratio of or the the expression of autism spectrum as a function of how much aluminum they were getting in the various vaccines. And there's there's a pretty clean, clean, clean curve. And of course, that's correlative no as these things often are. But it was suggested that the more aluminum kids got, in general in the population, that there was more autism as a as a real result. Now, you know, again, you always have to be careful with correlation, of course, because that can lead you astray easily. So we applied the Bradford Hill criteria to that. And we found really somewhat To our surprise, that eight of nine out of the Bradford Hill criteria for causation or were, were we're positive. And we basically started to piece together a story that said, Well, you know, maybe aluminum in vaccines is not as benign, as everyone thinks. And what you come to is, aluminum has never been done, except in your body anyway. Because as Chris actually has taught us, aluminum is pretty toxic stuff in your body, it's a great thing to make, I don't know, TVs, a spray thing to make outboard motors out of it spray thing, they make cars, and airplanes and things like that, there's those don't go in your body. But when you get a lot of it into your system, you're going to have at some point problem early in life. And late in life, you do not filter aluminum out as well as you do in most of your life. So you know, you can probably eat a lot of it. And you're going to get away with that for a long time, you can probably inhale a lot of it, you're going to get away with that for a long time. But injection, as we learned from the Gherardi work is it takes a different pathway. It's a whole different trajectory. So the pharmacokinetics that the various NIH and CDC groups have done, basically is meaningless when it comes to injectable. And we're not talking about putting an IV, we're talking about putting an intramuscular or subcutaneous Li, you get a whole different pathway. And it basically goes through the lymphatic system. And immune cells pick it up, and they haul it around, and they tend to park it in one of two places. One of them is bone and the other one is brain where according to the Gherardi work, it doesn't come out not easily. If they're wrong about aluminum in vaccines. Are they wrong about anything else? And you know, even then you just, you know, it's like, it's it's one of those, you know, like the old joke about a sweater, you pull on, you know, loose thread and all of a sudden you get a bundle of wool in your hands. And and then that's kind of what happened, you know, we all sudden began to pull on this thing. Now, this is getting worse and worse. And of course, that leads you now to become you know, new, you're now the enemy of the pharma enemy, of course, modern medicine, and you're an anti Vaxxer. And so doesn't matter what else he believes.

Dr. Paul  33:26  
Let me ask you a question, then. I mean, you clearly are very connected with all the key researchers in the world on anti vaxxers Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, what they want to call anti vaxxers. When we're talking the key scientists who've done the the basic science who've done some clinical work have looked at all the literature. What is your assessment of where we are now with our understanding of aluminum in vaccines? Should we be continuing to inject vaccines that contain aluminum? What do you think? No,

Dr. Chris Shaw  33:55  
I don't think I don't think we should, I think and they're all our alternatives. And we know that I've had scientists approached me, you know, kind of secretly from they used to work for GSK. And they they had come up with an alternative formulation, why doesn't the pharmaceutical industry do it? It would cost them money, it'll cost them time. They'll have to reboot all their stuff, though. They'll presumably have to do their Phase trials again. They don't want it it's gonna you know, they don't want to spend the money. And therefore it says no one is making them do it. No government is making do it, they will not do it.

Dr. Paul  34:27  
I think I can highlight right here that most of us who work in this area who have stumbled on the inconvenient truth that things like aluminum in vaccines are causing a massive problem. We're not anti vaccine by nature. We love the concept of being able to help a person fight off an infection that could potentially be dangerous, but we're just wanting safer vaccines if we're going to do them.

Dr. Chris Shaw  34:52  
Absolutely in and that's largely my view as well. I mean, I've worked as a medic in the Middle East. If I were in a refugee camp there and measles outbreak was starting. Well, and I had vaccines where they give it to him. Yeah, absolutely, I totally would. Because in that circumstance, the danger from the disease would probably be greater than the danger of, if any, from a measles vaccine. And so again, when you're looking at, you know, a series of comorbid conditions, you have people that are mal malnourished, they're they're probably they've got every kind of Coronavirus under the sun. And they are they're quite weak. And so if measles came through campaign, it could harm a lot of people. So what I do, yeah, I would I see vaccination as a useful adjunct to medicine, I think it has probably done a lot of good in many ways. I also think that like some things, it's overused. And so you know, that old Japanese adage, if your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So for a lot of people in immunology, and in vaccinology, and epidemiology, the solution to everything is a vaccine. And that's it's a little bit like saying, you know, back in the day, and it's not that long in the past, where any sniffle was a penicillin for various antibiotics. And of course, we know that was stupid and wrong, and not very well researched. But they you know, how they created superbugs is partially through that. Over You know, my overusing antibiotics? Well, vaccines can be overused too, we're beginning to see that the rate of of injury, adverse effects in this 12 to 17 year olds so far, is somewhere between five and 20 times higher with the mRNA vaccines. And it is from the COVID COVID disease itself.

Dr. Paul  36:36  
Oh, let's Let's restate that. So it can have an impact on our audience here. You're saying that those in their 12 to 17 year old who are now getting the COVID vaccine are experiencing adverse events at Did you say five to 20 times

Dr. Chris Shaw  36:53  
depending on how you calculate it five times higher or 20 times higher than from the disease itself?

Dr. Paul  36:59  
And five times higher is 500%. Yes. So we'll need to realize that is huge when we're talking disease or serious side effects. A 500%? Two, I don't know what percentage 20 times is. But that's,

Dr. Chris Shaw  37:15  
that's why so so you know, you know, listen, this is not published yet. This is, you know, internal internal discussion based on some number crunching that some of our members have done, it looks pretty solid again, you know, it'll, it'll have to go through some sort of peer review. And, you know, ultimately, you know, what, we'll see where it goes. But that sort of thing should definitely suggest some caution, you know, with these rapid rollouts, and you know, pushing it downwards, and of course, I suspect, I suspect the powers that be would love to push it down to younger ages. Now, that's where I begin to really see a problem because you know, what is going to happen with these, you know, mRNA vaccines, for example, we know, and they're just pretty clear now that the mRNA construct, at least in the animal studies kind of goes everywhere, it doesn't just stay in the in the deltoid muscle where you put it. We know in now, that seems to be true in humans, we know the spike protein doesn't just stay in the in the deltoid muscle, but it goes everywhere. There was a study that came out of Singapore that showed that MRI comes construct could be found in breast milk. So you know, what are these things doing? Well, we don't know. But they what? That whole, no song and dance about cold storage, I don't know how accurate it actually was, because these things are not being degraded rapidly. Some of it might be but not all of it. If it's showing up in weeks later in breast milk with showing up weeks later, you know, in your blood, then, you know, the the various proteases and nucleases are not taking the stuff apart as we were assured that that was what's gonna what's going to happen. They're just not. So now what? Well, you have a lot of people that are wandering around with these things still floating around on them. And maybe they got some immunity? No, they I don't question so much the efficacy data. But you know, what does that mean for the long term for for anybody? What does it mean, especially for children with rapid brain development, if some of these things wind up in their brains, you get spike protein in your brain, you get mRNA construct in your brain. And because you were injected at six months, or one or two or three or whatever it is, you can make a pretty safe bet what's going what your immune system is going to do with that? What do you think your resident microglia are gonna gonna do with that? Well, you know, I get you get three guesses to don't count. You know, what, exactly what's going to happen? How is that going to affect the the development of those children neurologic and I I cannot help but be very worried about that.

Dr. Paul  39:37  
Tell us Dr. Shah, what you know what's going to happen but most of us don't What do you see happening?

Dr. Chris Shaw  39:43  
I think you have the potential for some serious harm and population at large. I think you already do with you know, the vaccines so far, particularly the mRNA ones. Do you have is it going to impact kids? Well, if it's effect effect affecting adults as much as it seems to be, you know what the various numbers off the off the I can't help but think that this is a really poor idea to do for sure. Yeah, I think

Dr. Paul  40:06  
there's no question the auto immune trigger was going to be massive. Beyond that, or or because of that, what would you be most worried about?

Unknown Speaker  40:19  
For children?

Dr. Paul  40:20  
Yes.

Dr. Chris Shaw  40:21  
Well, if, if what is emerging turns out to be true if you have a lot of little micro clots all over your body. And and then that goes into your brain, in an adult or someone with, you know, a blood brain barrier that's more more or less intact, you would probably see some neurological deficits in the end, or what's going to happen over time. I don't know, I but you know, once you start getting neurological deficits, these things tend to cascade. One of the things I'd be very worried about with children, if they started doing it children, I would be really worried about a severe rise in ASD. That would be my concern. Am I right? I don't know. And again, you know, it hasn't been studied. You know, one of the things that came became clear in writing the book is that all of the 584 studies, the CDA si touts as showing vaccine safety, from 2000 to 2020. And I'm sure there are hundreds, if not 1000s, more, a lot of them are pretty much hand waving. And there's not a lot of really rigorous science in there in my interpretation.

Dr. Paul  41:24  
Before we end our time, I would really love your reflections. Haven't read your whole book yet. But you know, you're fighting for freedom during the Great reset, that's your subtitle. Just expand on that a little bit.

Dr. Chris Shaw  41:37  
When when you look at something like this rolling out, you ask yourself who's benefiting? Who's getting something? Well, you know, we know the farmer is making out like a bandit. I don't I don't remember what Pfizer was going to make last year, but it was multiple billions. The push for vaccine vaccination is the pointy end of a spear, there's something behind it, something is pushing it. Is it Klaus Schwab? Is it Bill Gates? Is it you know, the collection of billionaires who fly into Davos? Is it various state players, you know, somebody wants something out of this. And what they want is, in my view, the control of the human population, and they're going to do it. And they're going to do it through mandates or by force if they have to. And so we know what we just had in British Columbia, we just found out yesterday that we're being essentially, if you're not vaccinated, you're locked down again, you can't go into restaurants as of September 13. You can't go into any public place without getting vaccinated and showing your vaccine passport. Yeah, you can still go into grocery stores, maybe they'll probably bring in a masking thing for that for the for the filthy unvaccinated. And, you know, you see this rolling, you can only describe it as pure fascism, which Mussolini correctly said, and he should know, he said, fascism is when the corporations in the state, you know, enjoying the rule is corporatism. And I think that's what you're saying, I think the form of pharmaceutical cartel and their friends in Davos, and Klaus Schwab, you know, who's a Kabbalist, close to a true Nazi, as you can find, basically, are rolling out a plan to control human population. And I think that's been the agenda for a long time. I don't know all the details about who's behind it. But I think those are some of the main players.

Dr. Paul  43:12  
This one feels worldwide, I mean, how we have the entire population of the world, living in fear, they're selling fear, and they're also selling the only solution is the way they put it. I imagine in your book, you address our way out of this what what sort of closing what would be your thoughts on as a human race? What's our way out of this?

Dr. Chris Shaw  43:39  
I think our way out of this is to resist you know, in my talks, I'm teaching people the three R's, you know, rise up, resist, and if you need to rebel, Americans still have the capacity for independent thoughts, some capacity for wanting to control their own destinies, many of them and I think that's kind of how you're how you're gonna you're gonna stop this as people are gonna just refuse to participate. And if it takes more extreme action, then that's gonna that's gonna happen. And you know, America was built on revolution. So you know, maybe it made us come back and Canada wasn't. But you know, people up here are getting at least in some places are getting a little riled up and think, why, why are we putting up with this crap? We are supposed to decide what happens not not bureaucrats sitting in Ottawa or, you know, in your case, bureaucrats sitting in the statehouse or in Washington. Why are you putting up with so I don't advocate for violence. But you know, you push people hard enough, you're going to get it. And you know, I think John Kennedy famously said, if you make peaceful revolution, revolution impossible, you make violent revolution inevitable. And I'm paraphrasing, and I think, you know, there are a lot of Americans who seem to have their heads screwed on correctly and are recognizing this for what it is, which is a global coup by these forces. I think the pharma cartel is a big piece of it. Schwab is a huge piece of it. And what they're seeking is control of human destiny. And you know, you can go along with it, and you can find it. I mean, there's, I don't think there's a third choice, I don't think you can be partially pregnant here, you're either gonna, you're gonna they're gonna fight it, or you're gonna have have their baby. But it's only those two choices. If we know what I've learned in writing. In the writing of the book, there are two main things. One is that how much of the population at large is woefully ignorant about science just abysmally? Because you know, when people say, well, the science is settled or not trust the science, but you don't actually know what it means. That's pretty bad sign. The second one is how many of our fellow citizens are essentially authoritarian in mentality. And that's really surprising. That's fine. And I see it on the left, too. I mean, it's actually almost more dominant on the left. So it's shocking. How many people simply will defer to authority. You know, we're living in a giant Stanley Milgram experiment. And guess what he was right. We've proven it. It's this is this is definitely the case that most people will go along with 30. Somebody in a white lab coat or in a uniform tells you to do X, most people don't do

Dr. Paul  46:03  
it, closing thoughts for our audience for the world, what what would you suggest?

Dr. Chris Shaw  46:09  
I think that I think people have to remember that they are innately free, and have to refuse attempts to take away their freedom. And they have to band with like minded people, to find ways to resist what is, I think, a growing tyranny. Now, for example, my family and I were moving up 50 miles north of Victoria. And we're going to a place called the couch and valley where a lot more people think, like we do. And we don't mean anybody any harm, but we just don't want to be around terrified people who are going to mandate stuff that can harm me and my children, and we're not having it. So you know, go find your tribe, and go find your tribe and learn how to protect your tribe. And yeah, and hold out. And, you know, if the various reports are correct, if the adverse effects are correct, if they manage to vaccinate everybody in the army and police, their ability to enforce stuff is going to go down as time goes by. So just hold on. And, you know, and the other thing, you know, what we've seen is the same way we see that fear is really contagious. You look at someone like Bobby Kennedy, and you know, you know, courage is contagious too. So a lot of people are taking, you know, taking courage from his example and he's really out there on the line all the time. And I think that's that's one of the take home messages you don't have to go along. When when when people when I was a kid, you were probably the same age. You know, when I was a kid, you know, you watched stories about World War Two and you know what I have fought in World War Two what I have joined the machi what I have resisted the Nazis. Well guess why do you get to find out? Now you get to find out if you would, and a lot of people who said they would would you know my advice is be like the ones you thought you admired when you're a kid

Dr. Paul  47:53  
back to Chris Shaw, thank you so much for being on our show. And for this wisdom, and your important thoughts on so many important issues that face us today, folks, go out and get this book dispatches from the vaccine wars fighting for human freedom during the Great reset. We need to start understanding what's going on and I think this will take us a long way to figuring that out. So bless you.

Dr. Chris Shaw  48:17  
Great to be on your show. Thank you

Dr. Paul  48:24  
Dr. Pol. Welcome to another episode of against the wind doctors in science under fire. This is in the news, Bernadette is bringing you some special information about upcoming opportunities to get informed. Bernadette comes from informed choice Washington. She's an informed life radio host and so much more. Welcome to the show, Bernadette.

Bernadette Pajer  48:43  
Thank you. Thank you for having me. As you can see, you're not seeing my live mug today because I'm at a fun location but was not a great place to do the video.

Dr. Paul  48:53  
Coming on anyway, and let's jump into what you wanted to present. This is gonna be a little different. You can go ahead and share share your screen. I know we share about a couple events coming up.

Bernadette Pajer  49:05  
Yeah, this this episode today. Dr. Paul is all about solutions. So we've got two amazing live events for people to attend that are going to be so inspiring. Coming up first, October 14 through the 16th in Live Oak California is COVID con 21 The Solution Summit. It is going to be so fantastic. It's very affordable. Look at the lineup. We've got Dr. Peter makalah. Dr. David Martin, Pam Popper, Kevin Jenkins, George Wentz. He's an attorney, Senator Dennis Linthicum Dr. James Lyons, Wyler and Dr. Henry Ely, who's just absolutely brilliant. He's he and his team are the authors of that 444 page paper, you know, calling for a grand jury investigation into the CDC. So this this is going to be A lot of great information but mostly focused on solutions. That's what's so exciting about this. And not only will attendees get great information, but the registration fees will find on bioscience and education as well as expert and legal and legislative action, coordinated to fight for you and your family's future freedom. So if you want to get active and you, you really want to do something about what's happening, this is the conference for you. So it's just a couple of weeks away, go ahead and get yourself signed up. And there's some explore this website, it's COVID con 20 one.com. Because there's a there's a lot of information available already now for free that you can get to. You'll see on the on the front page there. I think I've passed it. But there's some really good information. Here we go. You can get information about masks in schools, about if your employer is mandating the jab, and also evident evidence based strategies for early treatments available now. And then Dr. Pol, you alerted me to this amazing event coming up. October 22 through 24th. That still has a few tickets available. It's almost sold out, but you can still get a few tickets. Another

Dr. Paul  51:21  
amazing live event in Nashville, Tennessee.

Bernadette Pajer  51:25  
Yeah. And look at this Nashville has opened up no masks, no social distancing, and no vaccination requirements. So if you want a break, you escape yourself to Nashville, Tennessee, and holy cow, Dr. Paul, you are one of the amazing speakers with more than 50 speakers. So let's look at some of these people. You know, we've got the bowl hunters. This is I didn't tell the in the name of it. It's the truth about cancer live. And you know, the cancers in the title because that's the name of their organization. But they're more than cancer. They're about medical freedom for all issues here. We've got Randy Jackson of the Jackson Five and that's so cool. John Schneider, Roger Stone, Andy Wakefield, Mike Adams, David Avocado, Allen keys, Dell, big tree, Pastor Mark burns. I mean, look at this, we just go on and on. We've got Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. I apologize. No offense to people's names I'm skipping, there's just too many here to read. And the way they have it set up is you can pick and choose who you go see they have multiple presenters at a time. So you create your own individual conference experience is what I was reading. You know, you can pick what you're interested in. I haven't found out for sure if they're going to be recording generally they record everything. But it looks looks like you got to be there. You got to be there live. And there you are Dr. Paul Thomas, pediatrician standing for love truth and freedom. Christian cape, Dr. Fall.

Dr. Paul  52:53  
Yeah, you're too much. No, this is a phenomenal opportunity to have an experience that's live. I just got back this weekend from a trip to Florida where again, except for in the airports, most people are not wearing masks. And I attended a school where none of the children wear masks. Nobody's vaccinated except for a handful and they are actually moving on. So that this the entire place will just be back to normal and the the amazing health and wellness that exists when you allow natural immunity. So if that's a foreign concept to you, given the bombardment you're getting in the regular media, I would strongly encourage you to go to one of these conferences, go to both if you can, if you've got the ability to do that. And just fill yourself with facts and information and science that you just don't get anywhere else, which is what you're about Bernadette is telling us in this segment, the news that's not in the news.

Bernadette Pajer  53:51  
Yeah, exactly. So I'll repeat those websites. So you'll want to go to the truth about cancer live.com and COVID con 20 one.com. Those are the places to go get the information and register and then you go find somebody grab them say you register to and if you're not flying these days, you jump in the car and you make it road trip. Yep. Have yourself a good old time.

Dr. Paul  54:17  
Yep, that's what we got to do, folks, actually, it's a wonderful time to be alive. Don't live in fear. And thank you for being on our show. We'll see you next week. I'm Dr. Paul. Thanks Bernadette.

Bernadette Pajer  54:28  
You're welcome Dr. Paul. Have a good one.

Dr. Paul  54:36  
Dr. Pol here, doctors and science.com is where you go to get access to my exclusive members only section. This is how you the viewers support our work. We have no sponsors. We are fully supported by you, our viewers. What do you get in the Members section? It's quite a list. You get access to a couple of my eBooks. The first one The authoritative reference list for my vaccine friendly plan book. I also have written a book, very extensive called everyday health that covers pretty much what I think you should be doing if you want to live a healthy life in this world today. But there's so much more. We have a live q&a Every week after the show with yours truly, Dr. Pol answering your questions, submit your questions online, and I will tackle as many of them as I possibly can, and try to answer to the best of my ability, whatever burning questions you have. In addition to this, you get transcripts of every show. We have other bonus content. And I think one of the huge bonus content pieces is the PowerPoints of the talks I'm giving as I travel around the country. People are always asking me how can we get those PowerPoints? This is how you do it. Head on over to doctors and science comm and become a member and join the team of against the wind helped me spread the truth and share this on social media and with their friends at doctors in science.com. I look forward to running with you against the wind. Go to our website doctors in science.com Sign up, donate if you can. And let's make this the weekly show the nation's been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul

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