Show 16: Transcript

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​Dr. Paul  0:00  
Welcome to show 16 Dr. Paul here. We're gonna lead with Dr. Stephen pellets. He is the vice president of the Canadian COVID. Care Alliance. He chairs their scientific and medical Advisory Committee. He is an expert on PCR testing. He's a professor of Neurology at the University of British Columbia. He will talk to us about passive and vaccine induced immunity, which is better. He's also going to cover PCR testing in a detailed way like you've never heard before. And cover in detail the Delta variant that is so prevalent across the world. Next you hear from Dr. Nathan Riley, MD. He is an OB GYN who is holistic lifestyle coach, and he's going to cover things like what are the keys to a healthy pregnancy, I asked him what are the most important areas in ob gyn that involve informed consent? And finally, I just love how he closes I said, What's your take home message, lead with compassion and love? That's awesome. Of course, you're gonna love Bernadette closing out with what's in the news or what should be in the news that you may not be getting. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul here from the heart this week, I want to begin with deep gratitude to so many of you 1000s I've heard who are praying for me and supporting us in this journey for medical freedom. So I had this card waiting for me on my desk this morning. Talking about awesome, it says Dr. Paul, just a reminder that we are so insanely grateful for you your work voice and practice. When the hard days come please remember, there are 1000s of others. Just like my family, God's protection and blessings. Elisa, dominant Dominic. Whoa, I needed my glasses. Ashlyn Carter and Julie, thank you, all of you, who have been so supportive of this journey. So just today for a little update, I was in court in Washington County, the Medical Board of Oregon sent their representative attorney to attempt to have me be fined $500 a day, beginning retroactively, sometime last year, because I honored the legal aspects of my IRB, institutional review board. So when you do a study, when you do research, if you're going to do it, ethically, you get an IRB to approve that what you're doing is ethical. And so Indeed, I did this back in 2015. This goes back to 2015. Folks, when I looked at the data in my practice, from 2008, to 2015, some of that data is published in my book, the vaccine friendly plan that many of you know about. And just recently, they have come after 1000 plus names and contact information of these patients. No other reason clearly than a fishing expedition because it's become clear to my legal team, they're telling me it appears the board has nothing. Well, to sort of highlight that even more, this book was just published the war on informed consent. So Jeremy Hammond wrote this book about yours truly, and what I've been going through with the medical board, I urge you to go ahead and get a copy support this work that he's done. But he outlines in amazing detail, the journey I had up until about a month or two ago, when he finished writing at that point, he just wanted this information to get out there. The story obviously continues. Many of you know, I have a massive eight day trial that's scheduled for next January. That's when I'll have my day in court, as they say, up until now, it's just been the medical board papering me to death almost with something new, almost, it seems like every month. But I'm here to tell you that, you know, humbly and in seeking just justice for the children I represent, that I will stand on what is right what I know to be true. And simply bring that to the court and answer any question honestly and openly. But I will not violate the confidentiality of my patients. Because, well, that's just plain wrong. So I feel blessed that so many of you have supported me and supported me in this journey. I have some really exciting news about this show that I can't reveal this time. But stay tuned. I'm almost certain by next episode, within two weeks, I will have a monster announcement for you. So those of you who are already on board with against the wind, doctors in science under fire, you're going to be so excited to hear how this story takes it to a whole new level. So I thank you for your support. Your love and enjoy the show.

Breaking News against the wind doctors and science has been invited to join a new network children's health defense TV. Stay tuned, we will be a part of a major force of good for the world. Hi folks, Dr. Paul here from against the wind doctors in science under fire, you need to know about the members only area. So this is a way you can support the show because this show is not having any sponsorship whatsoever. We are beholden to no one. And the reason we can bring you information that you really aren't getting anywhere else is because it's supported by you, the viewers, what you get, however, in this membership section for the first month that's absolutely free. And after that for a good cup of coffee for 495. Here's what you get. I've written two amazing ebooks, we will have Q and A's live with me. We have transcripts of every episode, we have full episodes and other well edited episodes that are not in the main show. So you get exclusive content. And I will also be posting exclusive videos sort of from the cuff. When I have a thought that I just feel like I want the world to know about or if I read an article that it's like, wow, this is important people need to know about it. All of this will go in the members only section. So join the team have against the wind be a part of the solution our world needs and sign up as a member and support our work.

Dr. Paul here, welcome to another episode of against the wind batteries in science under fire. It is my privilege to welcome Dr. Steven Pelech. Thanks for joining us today.

Dr. Steven Pelech  6:46  
My pleasure. I'm really happy to be here and be able to talk to your audience.

Dr. Paul  6:50  
Thank you, Dr. Steven Pelech. For those who don't know him, he is the Vice President of Canadian COVID Care Alliance, the chair of its scientific and medical Advisory Committee. He is a professor of Neurology at a University of British Columbia and the President and Chief Scientific Officer of connexus bioinformatics Corporation. So you have a wealth of experience in things that interests a lot of people today. I was thought I'd start off with asking you what is the extent of passively acquired immunity in our population? I know you're in Canada, so you have information for both Canada and the US.

Dr. Steven Pelech  7:28  
That's right. But basically, the biggest difficulty is that the serological tests that are have been used are actually very insensitive. So they dramatically underestimate in the studies that have been done. The extent of actual natural immunity, that is whether or not a person has been infected with a virus, and they've developed their own antibodies. But you can kind of calculate it out. If you use the PCR test. This is the test the genetic test that only works if a person has actively been infected by the virus at the time. But with a PCR test, it can be calculated that about 10.2% of the population in the United States as of a few weeks ago, has actually had a positive PCR test. So we know from the Center for Disease Control in the US that in fact, for every person who tests positive, we expect that there'll be about five more people that will actually have had COVID-19 most of them will not have realized it, but they have developed immune response. So based on that alone, one could anticipate that about over 50% of the population in in the States, in fact, already have been infected and already have antibodies in regardless of their state of vaccination. And of course, in the us a lot of vaccination has been in undertaken, a large portion of the population has been vaccinated, but probably about a quarter have not been vaccinated, but of those, probably most of them actually already have immunity. So you're very close to her herd immunity there in the US. But the problem is, it does look as though the vaccination is not establishing immune memory. So this is where the requirement for more booster shots. But in Canada, we we've developed a test that connects is my company that and I can explain a little bit more about that later. But the main point of that test is we've tested over 270 people in the Vancouver area, just north of Seattle. And basically we find that 90% of the Healthy People that we've tested using two different antibody tests in fact One from a company called Vizio scale devices in the US and our own test. And we found that 90% of those 276, healthy people had antibodies that would clearly recognize the SARS, covi to virus and many different parts of the virus. So I think that natural immunity is pretty extensive already through both Canada and the United States.

Dr. Paul  10:24  
That's intriguing. Of those almost 300 people you tested? Did you separate out those who are vaccinated? And those who thought they had a COVID like illness? Or was it just sort of looking just only at positive or negative?

Dr. Steven Pelech  10:41  
That test was originally done in the spring of 2020? Oh, okay. So at that time, we did not have that many people who actually had been infected with the virus, at least, officially based on on the PCR testing. I do believe in the Vancouver area, we actually were probably the, and again, this is my own opinion, based on the data that we've actually obtained from applying our tests. But also a little bit of, of reflective thinking, if you consider that the Vancouver area is a gateway to the Orient in China. And we have, for example, where I live in Richmond, British Columbia, about 54% of our population is Chinese. And in fact, a lot of them are very successful business people that go back and forth from China. It's not surprising and Vancouver would be the first place in North America to really be hit officially was just south of the border. Where the first case in Washington state of SARS COVID, to officially the US, but with with that kind of trafficking, and we know that the virus was actually circulating around in, in certainly Wu Han and other parts of China in December, probably earlier November. So basically, in the Vancouver area, we had really no restrictions from December, January, February and halfway through March before any actions were taken. And this is during Chinese New Year's, and of course, New Year's and Christmas in North America. So what ended up happening is you have a lot of the virus spreading around. And we didn't have the tools, the PCR test really didn't come about until effectively in February, where we started to be used. So we have no recordings of how many people actually got sick at that time. And we think that that's probably when the virus really spread around. And a lot of people that we tested, in fact, were very sick in January and February, a lot of dentists, for example. And they had all the SARS COVID to like symptoms. So I think this is the reason why there was extensive antibodies developed that we could test and so called healthy people, some of which, you know, these people obviously got sick, and we had a very, as it turns out, very bad flu season in 2019. So, I think this is what was really going on.

Dr. Paul  13:21  
Yeah, what the test that you use is it is an antibody test, right? Was it a gg or AGM or both?

Dr. Steven Pelech  13:28  
We actually tracked i g m IGA and I GG with our test. Okay. And

Dr. Paul  13:33  
is it specific for SARS COBie? Two?

Dr. Steven Pelech  13:36  
Very good question, because when we saw all of those people that developed had evidence of antibodies against the virus, we had to question is was this because they've been previously exposed to other coronaviruses because now there's four cold Coronavirus is extremely common in the population. Right. And of course, we had SARS COVID, one before MERS not so much in North America. But as it turns out, the sequences that we use were from the SARS COVID to virus so regardless of whether they are from other previous Coronavirus infections or not, they do recognize SARS covi too, and this could explain why about 80% of people who are infected don't seem to have any symptoms, we call that they're asymptomatic. So, so so that might be because the existing anybodies that a person had were sufficiently protective so they never really developed the disease. Right. But when we compare the actual sequences of the SARS COVID to with the sequences in the equivalent positions in the proteins from the other coronaviruses we find they're actually not that similar. There's a few that are but for example the SARS COVID one and the SARS COVID. Two there About 80%, identical 20% is quite different. Then as you start going to the other cold coronaviruses, we're looking at, at usually less than 40% identity, so they are more unique. The SAR is COVID. Two sequences for which are anybody's or work King two for detecting these sequences. So I think the test is actually fairly specific.

Dr. Paul  15:23  
Okay, that's interesting if 80% are having asymptomatic infection, your assumption, then if I can paraphrase is that they probably had prior cold like symptoms from other coronaviruses. So their immune systems, even though they'd never been exposed to SARS, covi to were able to inactivate that virus before it could really replicate to a point of causing illness.

Dr. Steven Pelech  15:48  
That's right. So it seems and we see that even with younger people, they don't seem to develop the sicknesses easily as in older adults, but then again, we don't know if that's related to the antibody immunity or their innate immunity, there's no it's like an Army, Navy and Air Force that your immune system has it has different parts, and the antibody response from from B cells, these are the lymphocytes to produce the antibodies, is it just one arm, and you have T cells and you have an innate immunity system, which doesn't have to have that specificity for that particular virus or bacteria in an infection. And already, your immune system is working well to try to take out the intruder. So all these things are all working at the sound.

Dr. Paul  16:41  
Yeah, I've I've wondered myself as a pediatrician and noticing that kids rarely get sick, or when they get sick, it's not very severe. Whether or not they may have a more robust, innate immune system and that T cell function. I know we've learned in recent Well, I've recently learned you may have known this longer than I have that even the T cell arm of immunity, what we tend to call salad or rather than the antibody response has a mechanism for memory. And so that was I think, I think we were all sort of trained to think you have to have antibodies to have memory. That's why you vaccinate so you create antibodies, but we've now learned that know that it's our, our memory immune system extends across those other arms at threat,

Dr. Steven Pelech  17:24  
both the T cells and the B cells. Yeah. But it was hard. But this is this is a reason why the vaccines are very problematic in establishing this immune memory. Because the exposure is relatively brief. When you have the RNA vaccine, for example, the spike protein, the RNA last barely two days inside the cells once it gets in, but the protein, maybe it lasts for four or five days on average, most people so it's a very short window of exposure. And in order to get good immune memory, you need a more prolonged period of infection. And when you actually naturally infected with SARS, COVID, it's typically around 10 days or more, that that virus is actually present in your system and stimulating your immune system.

Dr. Paul  18:19  
that's a that's a good point I hadn't considered. Another question for you to think about or respond to is, I've heard it said that because the vaccines are really targeting a certain sequence of the of the SARS covi to maybe the spike protein region. For that it's just the spike protein that the memory that's developed is so specific that when we have mutations, like the Delta mutation, they're talking about in the media so much, that those who are vaccinated may actually not be as able to recognize that their immune system may not recognize that as well as a naturally infected person. What are your thoughts about that?

Dr. Steven Pelech  19:03  
Oh, what you're saying is partly true. The virus actually has 26 different proteins, I mean, there's a little overlap. So some people might say it's 27 proteins, but the spike protein is one of the 26. What's important is actually the proteins that are on the surface of the virus, because in your bloodstream, your immune system is going to see what's outside the virus, it won't really see as much what's inside the virus. And the three main proteins that are expressed on the surface of the virus is a spike protein, which gives us as Corona appearance of crown appearance. And then you have membrane protein and you have an envelope protein. And the membrane protein, there's actually a lot more of it, than there is a spike protein. So any antibody that can stick to the surface of the virus attaching to one of these proteins actually offers protection. It doesn't have to be against what we call The receptor binding portion of the spike protein, this is the part that interacts with ace two that allows the virus to get inside cells. So there's a lot of focus on so called neutralizing antibodies that can bind to that region, and block the ability of the virus by binding to despite protein in the receptor binding domain. So it can't interact with that as to, and that way it can't get inside cells. But that's not really critical. And in fact, from our tests, the way we worked it out was we, we actually cut artificially because we knew the gene sequences for all 26 proteins, we made them all, in tiny little overlapping pieces, over 8000 pieces. And then from each piece, what we did was when we, we have these created artificially on a membrane, so it's an array of spots of these individual peptides, that that slightly overlap in sequence with each other amino acid sequence. So we can actually narrow down what we call the epitopes, the part that the antibody is recognizing on the target protein from a virus or bacteria, right down to two amino acids. So if you look at a spike protein is it's just around 1300 amino acids along a protein is like a long beaded chain of amino acids. And the nucleotide sequence, which is the genetic information that's with the RNA is translated into making the protein with precise sequence of amino acids and the type of amino acids at each position along this chain. So the the idea here is that we had these overlaps of 15 amino acid pieces that we basically tile the entire structure is on these membranes. And then what we do is we just take the serum from patients who've had SARS COVID, to which the serum has the antibodies, you know, in their in their blood, I mean, serum is basically just taking your blood and pelleting by a centrifuge all the red blood cells, letting them clot and then taking the clear solution that that bathes these red blood cells as they travel through your circulatory system. So taking the antibodies and these people who actually recovered from SARS, co v two, so we know that they have antibodies that work, because they would not have actually been able to recover, had these antibodies not worked. So we taking their antibodies, we're probing these membranes, and we find which parts of the virus is it that people make antibodies against? And so what we found that was actually quite astounding, is that first number one, you don't make an antibody against just part of the, the protein. So that your response is actually limited to to just one anybody know, you actually have hundreds of different antibodies that will target different parts of all these viral proteins in each person, okay. We've so we narrowed down to around 110 parts that we thought were the most common amongst all the different people who'd recovered from SARS COVID. And the thing is that everybody's different. depending upon what your prior exposure is to other viruses and bacteria, and your genetic background, every response that people have, that we've looked at, and we looked at hundreds now is completely different in terms of which antibodies that your own system is targeting, for which parts on the virus. So we try to make a test that covers the most common parts. But what's really phenomenal is that when you look at these people, at the time when they had the infection, and we were monitoring them, typically around two to three months after they've been infected, and then we go back a year after they've been infected, we find that their pattern of this reactivity is like a fingerprint is almost exactly the same. So this tells us that your immunity is if it's from a natural infection is actually much more long lasting. So some of the comments that I've seen in mainstream media that the immunity that you acquire, from being infected, is not lasting. is ridiculous, is absolutely ridiculous, right. We know from other immunology, from other infections that your your immunity tends to last quite long. And in fact, when you have

immune Memory people that had in 1918, the influenza, they monitor these people back, you know, whether like 8090 years later, and they still were had antibodies, their B cells that produce the antibodies, their memory B cells were still there decades after they were originally affected. So as much as 90 years later, these people still had antibodies that recognize the 1918. influenza.

Dr. Paul  25:32  
That's fascinating. So this test that you've developed, I think you're talking about a test that you've specifically developed, correct? That's correct. Yes. Is it a yes or no on the antibodies? Or does it quantify and give you a sense of how big the antibody response is?

Dr. Steven Pelech  25:49  
No, it's quantitative. So basically, the, the stronger the spot, the more anybody that person, I guess that's part of the virus protein. That's correct.

Dr. Paul  26:00  
And so for the people who you tested a year later, how how much change was there in the realm, almost none, almost net.

Dr. Steven Pelech  26:10  
And it's a bit surprising to me, because what we would normally expect is that when you've been infected, you, your B cells will produce all these antibodies, and it'll keep pumping out these antibodies until such a time that you, you get rid of the pathogen, the virus, and then the B cells that produce those antibodies, they go dormant or Crescent, so they're hibernate basically, in your bone marrow. And they'll stay that way until such time as you get attacked by that virus again, and then what will happen is those B cells will be stimulated to grow and divide and make a more of a population of those B cells that are actively producing that specific antibody for that part of the virus. And that's what you know, expect so anybody titers, we call the decline with age, but with time, but I think what's happening is because we were living through a pandemic, and this viruses very easily transmissible, the people who actually have had the disease are getting constantly re exposed to the virus. Yep, I think that's, that's maintaining the antibody levels for now. Yeah, even that you can monitor because A, A idg antibody only lasts for 21 days. And the IGA and the i g m antibodies only lasts for about five days. So we know that there has to be active pumping out of these new antibodies to replace the ones that have degraded.

Dr. Paul  27:43  
Yeah, interesting. Well, certainly we know, with the history of chickenpox, you know, the whole population would get sort of boosted by the sicherlich epidemics, you know, each new round of kids gets chickenpox their parents and everybody gets re exposed. So you're always boosted? When you look, did you look at vaccinated folks and their antibody responses and whether those antibody responses were lasting?

Dr. Steven Pelech  28:08  
Good question. And the interesting thing is, we aren't we've just started looking at vaccinated people in the last few months. So it's hard for us to evaluate how long those antibody responses are lasting in those individuals. But what we have seen is first, just as you get a unique response to the virus infection, you also get a unique response to the vaccine, even though it's restricted to just the one protein. However, almost everybody that we test that has been vaccinated here in the Vancouver area, also has antibodies against the other, SARS COVID. To proteins, which not surprising based on our other data with with healthy people. So what we're seeing is that these people were actually already infected with the virus in most cases. And maybe the vaccine is acted as a bit of a booster shot for the spike protein portion. But not the other is but because there's still lots of the virus in the in the environment, they're still boosting their other antibodies, too. So it's, it makes it really, really difficult to do these kinds of studies, because most people seem to have already been infected.

Dr. Paul  29:30  
So that brings me to a question that I'd love to hear your answer on. And that is, which do you think because you've done the testing, at least from the laboratory assessment that you do, does getting the virus naturally or getting vaccinated, result in better immunity, which, which is the better approach in your mind at least immunologically and what you're seeing in your testing?

Dr. Steven Pelech  29:57  
Well, there's two things that are happening right now to consider One is the Delta strain, which we can get to in a moment. And, and the other is, is how, how effective is the vaccine in establishing immune memory. So it's too early for us because of our testing to, to, to get a sense of how long the vaccine immunity lasts. However, there is a lots of studies that are coming out of example, Israel, where you have a population, that was pretty much 90%. vaccinated for those that were eligible. Obviously, they didn't do younger children. But in that population, what we're seeing is that, in the current reports that are coming now out of Israel, is that over 80% of the people there that are getting COVID, now are actually double vaccinated individuals. Now, when the first studies were done, we could see with the Pfizer vaccine reports in the literature, that after about three months, four months in elderly population, it seemed that the antibody titers were actually declining, that were specific for the SARS, COVID to proteins. So we already knew at that point, that a portion of the population will start to lose their immunity. Now that we have these studies where the population has been vaccinated for up to six to seven months, what we're seeing is very significant drops in in the immunity that this population has from the Pfizer RNA vaccine, which is what was principally used in that country. So 80% of the cases, like I say, are double vaccinated people. So that really, really makes it very clear that the vaccines do not work in the long term. And so that's why already now in Israel, they're doing the third booster shot, too. So the third shot, because they're trying to get that that memory back. And so the argument is, well, it's the Delta strain that, you know, the vaccines are working as well against. And so that's why we have to have a new booster that's maybe more specific for the Delta straighter. But I've as I've just already told you, when you make when you are developing anybody, it's not good. It's just one little part, you know, and it's not the part as it turns out, where the mutations are occurring. So when we, we map out the parts of the virus, the most mutagenic, remarkably, what we find is the region of the receptor binding domain, which is the part that is interacting with h2, that part doesn't actually elicit the production of antibodies very well. It's, it's, it's very poor. And then when we look at all the mutations that are occurring in the alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and epsilon, you know, the more common variants of concern, those mutations are in regions that your body actually doesn't make very good antibodies against. So your your antibody protection is actually in the zones or the regions away from the mutations. So it shouldn't make any difference, whether you have the mutation or not, from for the vast majority of people, because that's not the part where you're making your antibodies against, and you have hundreds of different parts that you've made antibody against. So having a mutation here, and there really shouldn't reduce your overall immunity by less than a few in a fraction of a percent. So

Dr. Paul  33:40  
that's why we think clarity from you. They're working. So just for clarity, because I don't think I quite got the answer to the question, for example, if delta variant is a predominant variant, and that seems to be what the news is saying, and some of the reports are saying, does a naturally acquired immunity give you better protection against Delta? Or does the vaccine give you better protection against Delta? Or are they about the same and equally ineffective?

Dr. Steven Pelech  34:08  
No, I think the the, I believe that the vaccines themselves are ineffective because they're, you're not establishing immune memory. We know we are establishing immune memory with the actual natural infection. We know the natural infection is against many different proteins, not just parts of the proteins of the spike protein parts of all the other proteins to so you have a broader immune response. You have it's not narrow, and it's a longer lasting response. And there's a third thing that's quite different between the two when you are injected in your your muscle. The antibody response that you're going to primarily get is an IGA g response. Okay. So it's a good response. There's specific, long lasting anybody's but these To the antibodies that tend to go through your blood system, when you get infected with the virus, you're actually breathing it in and into your mouth, it's in your airway spaces, the kinds of antibodies that you produce in your airway spaces are primarily the secreted antibodies, the IGA, the IDM, the IGA, G, as it turns out, there's very little I, sorry, IGA, IGA, M, N, I, G, E, that I, GG antibodies are not really produced in your log. So even though you're making them in your bloodstream, they're not being secreted as much into your longway spaces. So when you get natural infection, you're actually creating the antibodies at the at the site where you're most likely to get infected. And so that class of antibodies is going to be more productive in taking out the virus. So all of these factors combined means to the answer to your question, the natural immunity is way better than you would get from a vaccine immunity. Quite Contrary to what a few people have said in the mainstream media, which has no basis.

Dr. Paul  36:13  
Yep. And that would explain why we're seeing so many of the vaccinated getting coming down sick,

Dr. Steven Pelech  36:19  
correct. And they're also going to be the incubators of in the future for other strains of the virus that might be more or less less, the vaccines, you could anticipate at least some reduction immunity might occur as you get new new strains, but they're going to be the particularly vulnerable population, because the immunity that they have is incomplete. So when they get exposed to the virus, again, the symptoms may be mild, but I don't actually think that's because of, of their immune protection. I think it's because the virus is more mild, right. But what will happen is they will be incubators, they won't get really sick, but they'll be able to still have the virus propagate and within their their lungs, and they will be infectious. And it's like antibiotics, if you if you give an antibiotic, and you widely use while widely utilize it, then there will be a selection process for antibody, biotic resistant bacteria. The same is kind of happening with using an incomplete immunity that's coming from the vaccines, you will be selecting for a virus that actually can invade that immunity. And since most of the people in the population are vaccinated, that's what will happen. Fortunately, in the United States, we have a large portion of the population that actually has natural immunity. So I expect the situation were pretty good for the states in terms of recovery.

Dr. Paul  38:05  
That's excellent. If I might paraphrase. If I'm vaccinated, I'm more likely to have new strains replicate in my nasal pharynx, for example, and potentially be more infectious to others, then someone who's got natural immunity.

Dr. Steven Pelech  38:22  
That's correct if they have the natural immunity, which, like I say, most people probably do

Dr. Paul  38:27  
probably do. So I think the vaccinated folks don't need to fear the unvaccinated perhaps it should be the other way around. If you're unvaccinated, you should fear the vaccinated.

Dr. Steven Pelech  38:37  
That's right, in fact is this phenomenon of shedding which there are so many reports it's hard to ignore. And we're trying to figure out what is going on here. My own hypothesis is that a person who's just been vaccinated, the way these vaccines work is very problematic. The because you're producing the spike protein on the surface of your own body cells, the immune responses to attack your own body cells. And it's a battle. And there's lots of damage and pieces of the membranes of your own cells, which we call these exosomes that will contain the spike protein that if this is going on in your lung area, you could anticipate the the production of these exosomes that someone else could be breathing at least while you have this very active inflammatory response going on inside your lungs and in your circulation. So what is probably happening is I think many of the people who are having these symptoms which are very much like in in immune reactions, is because they already have antibodies against the spike protein. And so they're having a hypersensitive immune response just as you will, okay, from a bee sting or something like that there is a segment of the population that will be extremely sensitive to this. I suspect that's what's going on, although I don't understand why there seems to be the bleeding, increased bleeding and people that are non vaccinated by interacting with people who are vaccinated. So there's it's a very strange phenomena. We just don't know enough about it at this time. But that's my working hypothesis. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  40:29  
So as we get close to the end of our time, address for us, for our viewers, the there's this news, going around that this delta variant is very dangerous, and hence, we need to vaccinate more. What's your thought about, you know, variants in general and the Delta variant specifically, is it more deadly or not?

Dr. Steven Pelech  40:55  
There's no evidence that I can see that it's actually more deadly. I think what we know is that the original Wu Han strain the the El strain, when we went to the alpha strain that came out of the United Kingdom, we know that it was about 50%. More infectious, we now know that the Delta strain is about 50%, more infectious than the alpha strain. So it's about twice as effective infectious as the original strain. However, we know with the original strains, you know, people die. And there is no curves that we can see with these waves that correlate very nicely, that as more people are infected, more people die. But with each successive wave, what we've seen is the number of people that die is reduced. Now, that's partly due to natural immunity is partly due to vaccination is partly due to the fact that those that were susceptible to dying, the elderly, they passed on. And so what you're left is with the survivors, but the interesting thing is, if you look at the data, for example, out of the United Kingdom, where the Delta strain hit first, I mean, the Delta strains, originally the Indian strain from India, but in We know, for several months now, that the Delta strain is over 95% of the virus, that's actually SARS COVID, two, in the COVID cases there, and there's been no increase in deaths. So as we see this massive increase in the percentage of the the virus, that's the Delta strain, there's a reduction in deaths, if in fact, the Delta strain was more lethal than you should see an increase in deaths. And that's not what you see in the data is now appearing to be the same in the United States. And now in British Columbia were 95% Delta strain here. And we're not seeing the increase in deaths with it. So the natural tendency for viruses in pandemics is strains that are actually more infectious dominate. But they're able to do this because they're also more mild in their symptoms. And so people who are asymptomatic, are actually spreading it faster, because they don't know they have the virus. And what's happening is SARS. COVID, is now evolving to be like one of the cold Corona viruses. It'll always be there. It'll be relatively benign in its symptoms, not lethal. And that's where this pandemic is going.

Dr. Paul  43:46  
Yeah. So some have called for testing, antibody testing, so that we don't vaccinate those who are already immune. I think maybe to avoid that antibody enhancement thing that you were talking about. Is your test available commercially? And can you speak to the competition out there? Because I I still find that we don't seem to have universally available or even easily available antibody tests.

Dr. Steven Pelech  44:13  
Yeah, well, this is the problem, the test that we've developed. And we've published some of this work already in peer reviewed journals. But the bulk of it, we're just writing up now, our test, we are going to be making it available. It's not really what our company was really developed to do it, we have the technology. So we're doing it because this is an emergency and people just need to know and the governments have not taken the route of developing good serological tests. They're using recombinant proteins, which is the whole proteins, which are very difficult and expensive to make. And so the tests are very expensive, but they're also not very specific, or very sensitive because you can only use a little bit of the material It's just too expensive. With our approach with the peptides, it's much cheaper. And we have much better coverage and much better specificity. But there's one other thing that I wanted to point out to your audience, before we close. And this again relates to the vaccines, it's one thing, being able to know that the vaccination that you're getting is giving you protection. It's another thing, whether or not you're actually putting yourself at great risk by taking the vaccine. And if you follow, basically what the manufacturers are saying, from the limited trials that have been done, the argument is that maybe only about point 05 percent of people that are vaccinated, are going to have serious adverse reactions, that does not seem to be supported by what we're seeing in the various database in this in the US where we have this reporting of adverse reactions to the vaccines. We have a terrible reporting system in Canada, which is another story. United Kingdom, it's a little better, they have a yellow card system. And it's very clear that that 10s of 1000s of people have already died from being vaccinated. We don't know the full extent of this, the various system only reports one to 2% of cases, according to a Harvard study, probably 10% might be closer to what the I would think the actual numbers, but even so, that would anticipate based on the various data over 100,000 people that have died for the vaccine. In the past, we've we've not given vaccines, if they turn out to kill even just, you know, 20 people, it's it's very interesting. But here's my biggest concern.

The way these vaccines work, whether it's the RNA vaccine, or the adenovirus vaccine, which delivers the DNA that then makes the RNA to then make the protein is that the protein is on the surface of your own cells. Unlike when you have an immune response to the virus, where the immune system is attacking just the virus. In the case of these vaccines, the immune system is attacking your own body cells. And the collateral damage is you will will not only make antibodies against the virus proteins, but you will make antibodies against your own proteins. Now normally, this shouldn't be a problem with limited exposure, because we have what's called immune tolerance, our immune system has learned to recognize your own body and not attack it. However, when you have repeated inflammatory responses, which is what this kind of vaccine initiates. And the more that you're vaccinated with the same technology, not just the same spike protein, but the same technology. So if you have the same vaccine, now, that's basically an RNA vaccine that's using the same delivery system, you're basically have the same problem. So what will happen is you will start to make antibodies against yourself, you break immune tolerance, and you develop autoimmune diseases. And so the development of mild carditis in younger men or boys that, in fact already shows that we're getting some of this breakage of immune tolerance, if mild carditis but you know, lupus and type one diabetes, and arthritis and Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, it takes kaleidos these take years for these autoimmune diseases to really develop. But once they're seated, they actually get worse and worse as time goes on as you have more and more inflammation. So this is my personal, biggest concern about these vaccines, most of the adverse effects will be reversed. But you know, you can you can handle maybe a certain amount of blood clotting or bleeding. But if you're getting a persistent inflammatory responses over time, then you will break tolerance. And I'm afraid that that this is gonna be a big problem in the future.

Dr. Paul  49:15  
Yeah, I share that concern autoimmunity, I'm a clinician it's really hard to treat. And we are just seeing more and more autoimmunity anyway. And it seems like this vaccine is just setting people up for massive autoimmune problems that can involve any part of your body because those proteins can attach anywhere. If they're in your brain and you start attacking brain tissue. I mean, the the scope of what you might see is horrendous.

Dr. Steven Pelech  49:39  
And a lot of people that are immune from that have autoimmune diseases already. I expect that this would exacerbate those conditions.

Dr. Paul  49:47  
Yep. Well, you've given us a lot to think about, do you have any closing thoughts or advice you'd like to give?

Dr. Steven Pelech  49:55  
Well, you know, this is a very interesting times that we're in We're, it's kind of like we have this mass psychosis that's happening that's being propagated by the mainstream media. I think the the official health authorities are doing their best to deal with this situation. But unfortunately, what they've been doing, it has, in my opinion, not been that effective. I think we're going to get out of this. Basically, through the natural immunity, we can't keep going with these particular vaccines. The good news is that there's about 150 vaccines that have been in development, many of them are now hitting the market using more traditional approaches. And I think those vaccines have a good chance of helping those that are greatest need the, you know, the ones that are vulnerable in our population, the elderly and health compromise. In addition, there's increasing data on a wide range of drugs, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, when flu blocks I mean, vitamin d3, that if these are given to people, when they start developing the symptoms of covid, 19, they don't, over 80% of these cases, ultimately don't need to go to hospital. We can save a lot of lives and save a lot of money. If we just allow these drugs, which are already approved drugs for other indications, some of these like ivermectin, and I've been around for over 40 years, and have the best safety profiles of all the drugs that are out there. And they're cheap. And they're off patent. They're used, for example ivermectin to treat parasites in Africa for six cents a day, someone there can drain the water and not have parasites. So these are well tested, and safe for other applications. And there's a lot of data from just under 100 trials now around the world, that just ivermectin alone, could actually significant reduce this, this sickness that people have from COVID. So there are all these alternatives coming, there's much better vaccines that are coming. And even the virus itself seems to be more mild. So all of these are strong positives, that we can look forward in the in the very near future, to actually some sort of analyse, coming back to our societies. So I think that's the good news.

Dr. Paul  52:30  
That is good news. And it's good to close on some good news. I want to thank you so much for being with us. And is there any place that people might go to learn more about your work?

Dr. Steven Pelech  52:42  
The connexus bioinformatics website, it's www connexus k i n e x us.ca, we're based in Vancouver, Canada, we'll be putting material on there. But the website that I would really point people to where I'm involved in a lot of other scientists is the Canadian COVID Care Alliance website. And that website URL is www dot, Canadian COVID, Care Alliance, all one word, dot o RG. And I think if you contact us through there, we'll try to advise you where you can actually get these medications, at least in Canada. But there's the the there's the Alliance's that are down in the state. So you can link from our website that can help you get some of these medications there in the States. And also where more information about these testing and the kind of tests that we have what we're trying to make available to people. And I think our work is going to be published, and open access. And so many other companies should have no trouble, reverse engineering, what it is that we've done, so that they can start offering these kinds of tests. And that's where I hope it will go.

Dr. Paul  54:05  
Fantastic. Well, you're doing amazing work. Thank you for sharing this wisdom with our viewers. And let's touch base in some months when things are different. And give an update to everybody. Thank you for your time. Okay. Fantastic. So before you leave, that's the end of the show part. They'll just cut the rest out. Could you send me I can't remember if I asked you for a photo because when we put up the show, we like to have a photo of maybe a photo and then those couple URLs that you want us to put onto the show notes.

Dr. Steven Pelech  54:39  
And so was that what you were looking for? Yeah, that was perfect. Okay, good. Yeah. I'm happy. Yeah, I think me. Really programs like yourself are so important because the mainstream media has really yeah, they're It is leading when there is highly misleading, you know, like this idea of 1% of people that are are, you know, in hospital or have died are vaccinated and 99% are unvaccinated. It's based on taking the data from last December. Right? Right. We had these big waves of, of COVID cases. And then, you know, by June, maybe 10% of the population has been vaccinated, double vaccinated. And then they're using that information, where the rest there was really no vaccination. And then using that to come up with these crazy numbers, this is the US Surgeon General's doing. It's it's very, very misleading. And then we're seeing on social media. There's there's programs that if I go and search in Safari, for that URL, it doesn't pop up. You can't do that. Maybe chrome it does. So so even the browser's are heavily filtering what it is that we can see. It's a very interesting, it's

Dr. Paul  56:08  
censorship is huge. And there's massive pressure on clinicians. I mean, why risk your life? Yeah, you let you risk your license if you speak. Even just question, right? I mean, science is about questioning things. And so anyway, I love your basic science approach and practical understanding of immunity. It resonates with everything I've been learning, reading and seeing in my practice. Well, I'm a pediatrician, so I don't see much COVID. But

Unknown Speaker  56:38  
no, and that's the amazing thing. You don't

Dr. Paul  56:42  
know, I had my first case yesterday, in fact, and you know, went and saw the kid in the car. I mean, I kept a little distance and didn't bring him into the office. But, you know, kids are doing fine. Yeah,

Dr. Steven Pelech  56:53  
no, I think the lethality rate in children has been worked out to be about point 00 3%.

Dr. Paul  57:00  
Yeah, or there might be an extra zero in there, actually. And, yeah, and so I have 10,000 patients, and not a single one has ended up in the ER or hospital or died. And we have not vaccinated any of them. So whatever we're doing, which is primarily good nutrition, and I do promote vitamin D very heavily, would seem to be more effective than the vaccine program. Yeah,

Dr. Steven Pelech  57:25  
I can see was happening. And as we start seeing more of the, the adverse reactions to the vaccines, I think there's gonna be in time, as much sickness from that as there is from the actual virus. In fact, this is the interesting thing. If If less than 20% of people who get the virus have any symptoms, you know, that more than half the people that are actually vaccinated, especially by the second shot, end up with symptoms that are very much like SARS, COVID, to know its immune response, they're gonna get sick from that. So they're, they have a better chance of being sick in general, from the vaccine than they actually do from the virus.

Dr. Paul  58:13  
Yeah, and certainly, if you're a kid, I mean, if I vaccinated all 10,000 of my patients, there would be deaths, there would be mild carditis, there would be untold autoimmune conditions developing over the next years, it would be criminal.

Dr. Steven Pelech  58:28  
So I think in our organization, where we have the medical doctors that are actually seeing patients, they're calculating, it's about one to 2% of the vaccinated people in their practices end up basically in hospital, and some have died. Yeah. And that's certainly a far cry from the point 05 percent. That has been, you know, widely expounded. And it's actually very interesting when you look at vaccine reporting. In Canada, what we see is that when the program first started, there's this huge spike, actually of reports of adverse reactions, and then it kind of goes right down, even though the total amount of vaccinations is actually skyrocketed. And so what it tells me is we prioritized the elderly, to be vaccinated first. And I think in the in that population, the vaccine may have actually killed a lot of the elderly because they're very frail. And as a consequence, they were much more prone to actually dying from the vaccine itself.

Dr. Paul  59:41  
Well, in our management, the whole management in the beginning of this pandemic was so misguided with you know, go home, wait till you're turning blue and then come in and we'll intubate you. And this is an illness that we now know. You're a part of, you know, the Canadian COVID Care Alliance. It's very treatable. At least you can certainly change the course of the illness. And there are even protocols to make it less likely that you get sick in the first place.

Dr. Steven Pelech  1:00:08  
That's right. And and you know, when you look at a lot of people who've died, many of them were from from nursing homes. But I noticed when I was seeing the programs have, you know, the news, where they're going into these hospitals, and you look at the patients that are in, you know, being intubated, and even the nurses walking around them. Tremendous obesity. And we know, we know that the h2 receptor is highly expressed in fat cells. So these people that are overweight, dramatically overweight. Basically, what happens is they're just breeding grounds for the virus to propagate. And that's why they get so sick. So it's no we should have had in the Canada and in the US, a stronger emphasis on nutrition, and keeping your weight down. And all these things would have also improved many, many other diseases too. Yeah. Is nothing said about, you know, the obesity problem?

Dr. Paul  1:01:13  
Yeah, no lifestyle factors are huge. And thank you for pointing that out. We're gonna throw that into this interview. Because you can still do that, folks, if you're carrying extra pounds. take a serious look at that, because it is very protective to you, if you can lean out, get more to a ideal body weight. And, you know, COVID is not going away. There'll be different variants and what have you. So go ahead and start today. If you haven't started already. I'll do a show on how to lose weight at one point in the near future.

Well, welcome to against the wind doctors in science under fire. Nathan, it is my privilege to welcome you to our show.

Dr Nathan Riley  1:01:58  
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Paul  1:02:01  
Thank you, viewers. Let me just tell our viewers a little bit about you. Sure. You are an MD holistic ob gyn and lifestyle coach, which is a very interesting combination. We'll chat more about you're the founder of beloved holistics you host beloved holistics radio. You're a graduate of Temple University School of Medicine. You did your residency and OB GYN at Kaiser Permanente in Los Angeles, a fellowship in hospice and palliative medicine at the University of California, San Diego, and you currently live in Louisville, Kentucky with your wife and children. That's right. Yeah, fantastic. I wonder if you might start with I know you've created a patient centered model that's holistic biodynamic, you incorporate allopathic when appropriate. What led you to transition from what we might say, traditional ob gyn practice, that's mainstream, to what you do now?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:02:55  
Well, it's a great, it's a great question that I'm still trying to figure out for myself. As you know, you get through this whole, I don't know how many years of school you do. I mean, it's like, literally, it seems like since I was 18, I was trying to work towards this. And then you get to the end, and you look back, you're like, that's not where I didn't expect to be here, where I'm just putting band aids on people's problems and using language and tactics in order to make my life easier as a physician, it was, I think, a little bit of disillusionment with with what birth actually looked like in the hospital, you know, in everybody who goes to med school goes to see a birth at some point, right? You're maybe in your ob rotation or family medicine rotation or something and you show up, and you get to see this incredible thing happen, where there's something deeply profoundly sacred, right. And there's this magic in this Mystique. And you're like, wow, if I, if there's so many answers left, sort of unexplored here. Let's pursue this. And then in four years of residency, that magic is completely lost. It's it becomes protocolized, it becomes this sort of assembly line fashion, especially in a large system, like any major hospital system, not going to pick on Kaiser, because we value productivity, we value efficiency, but what about what happens whenever you actually get to know a person and they tell you I am deathly afraid of what's going to happen? You know, then giving the recommendations where you know, you you get this thing from a cog, which is our college that oversees everything, American College of Obstetricians and gynaecologists and you take this, this little data point, you say, hey, I'd like to do this for you. And you haven't even asked them what's important to them. You haven't even asked them what are your values? What are your ambitions like? What are your fears? And if you didn't know those things, you may not necessarily bring your solution to solve some problem that is yet you know, as of yet on unveiled so or I guess, I guess as of yet, it's still veiled, right until you ask them so so while I was in residency, I also and I should also mention in med medical school, I lost my father to multiple myeloma and I didn't quite have the understanding yet to really realize what ended up Life looked like. And you kind of assume end of life is this process where you put people on ventilators and you hook them up to all these lines, and you desperately try to keep their heart beating at all costs. And when that's not possible, then what can we do? Well, there's a whole bunch of other things. But we've hit the end of the road with allopathic medicine. And now the conversation opens up around what's important. If we wait until a person's not able to engage in that conversation, then you're left looking to the mom and dad or the brother or the sister or the children to make decisions about this person's sort of future. Right? And I have you Sorry to interrupt, but yeah, sure, sure.

Dr. Paul  1:05:36  
This hit me you have this very unique set of skill set, or exposure to your present for the beginning of life. And you also went and got this training, as well as experiencing with your own father, with the end of life? How, what, what's that done for you? or what have you, what have you gotten out of that that's so important for us to know?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:06:00  
Well, what I what I think I've learned the most is that talking about these really pivotal things that happen in our lives, all of the conversation that works up to that makes these really challenging things, which I think are both very sacred, the birth and the death of a human being. These are the two most important things arguably, that we ever go through, right. And, and because they're so important, there's a lot of pressure, there's, it can be very scary, it can be very anxiety inducing, but also very exciting. So if we can talk to people, our patients, particularly or family members, if we have that skill set about what is to come what's important, hey, there's these possible things that could happen? What what what what does that look like? what's the what's the ideal, and you know, if we can start asking about those things before death, just like before birth, then it allows us to actually be prepared for the natural bobbing and weaving that come with the unknown, both of which, you know, I think is present in birth and death. So the particular skill set that I bring from hospice and palliative medicine into into birth work, is that let's have a conversation about who you are, and what's important so that when the unknown thing happens, we're already ready, like, I already know where you are, I already know what's important. Let's just turn this knob slightly, instead of rushing you back to an operating room and doing something that might be traumatic and might really, really rock your boat.

Dr. Paul  1:07:22  
So I would speculate, I'm a pediatrician. So I see a lot of moms for those prenatal visits. They're young, they're in the care of an obstetrician, which you are. And they're really concerned about what's going to happen if they end up at the hospital because of protocols that they just sort of get ushered into, right. Maybe they don't want to do vaccines, right in the hospital, maybe they're worried about the COVID protocols. What do you what do you tell folks who want to have kids maybe even before they get pregnant, but then once they're pregnant? What what are some of the things you've really sort of brought to the table that helped that process?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:08:05  
Well, I think that the past 18 months have really revealed some of the inadequacies within the protocolized, the sort of procedural methodology that we learn as allopathic doctors, right? We are really great at reacting. And if our tools are going to help get a person through a tough space, like after a car accident after a knife through your gut, or whatever, we are really, really good at that. What we're not really great at is counseling people on how to prepare for these things, right. So let's say from a hospice standpoint, or a palliative care standpoint, really is is kind of a it's not really a step to hospice. It's really a more all encompassing, added level of support. Let's say that you're diagnosed with cancer, and you're going to go get chemotherapy, well, you can only get the highest dose chemotherapy if your body is strong and healthy before we go into that right and granted Yes, you have cancer, but let's work on nutrition, let's work on movement, let's get your lymphatic system revved up, let's get you eating the right foods, let's get you out in nature, get you drinking clean water, etc. The same goes for pregnancy. And so the, the the what I think that, you know, respiratory viral illness, like that's what's on everybody's mind right now. The best way to support ourselves and our patients in getting through viral illness, or chemotherapy, or pregnancy or whatever is for us to lay down healthy soil and that's where the biodynamic that's why I use that word is like we can't expect that the tools of allopathic medicine are going to get you through anything if I'm working with a you know brokedown car I hate to even use the car example because it sounds so Cartesian you know, but but you know if if you if you if you drive an automobile into the mechanic shop in the car itself is falling apart, putting on new rims is not going to make that thing work any better. Right. Okay.

Dr. Paul  1:09:55  
So be specific. Take this moment. I'm let's just say I'm a About to be mom or a new newly discovered I'm pregnant. Yeah. What should I do specifically?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:10:07  
Well, it always starts with again, it's like an hour to two hours of talking about what is it that that's ailing you right now, because if there's something ailing you now, it's most likely that in pregnancy, those things are going to get worse, right? So So we start with diet, we actually I try to get everybody eating local organic produce, it's, it's just the way it goes. If you're going to eat meat and chicken, and eggs, those are all going to be the most responsibly raised versions of those those components. But then also there's movement, if you haven't been strength training, we're going to actually start doing that it doesn't mean you go and start doing CrossFit or you're going to run a marathon or anything, it's just let's get blood and lymph moving through your body, right? This is something that our osteopathic friends actually understand sort of intuitively, because within their training, all those manipulations are not just to make sure that you have full range of motion, it's actually to get stuff moving into and out of tissues. So that's an important part. We know physiology changes in pregnancy. So getting movement down. If you're not sleeping, you got to sleep. And especially as you know, your moms come in and six weeks after the birth, the mom and the dad are looking like zombies because they haven't slept like let's get you sleeping now. And let's talk about how you know how important sleep is and the other the other things and by the way, none of this is rocket science. I realize that but it's amazing how few people are really taking care of the soil drinking clean water right if you're drinking city water, I always recommend people get a filter I use a Berkey with a fluoride filter built right in. There's people that are also I think that there's some pretty good evidence for the structuring of water and and using you know, charging water I mean, there's there's there's different practices out there that can make your water even better. I a good friend of mine, Paul check, I actually attended he and his wife's birth down in Encinitas. And he brought me up a jug of water. I didn't know who these who they were at first, but they've got a really a really great health and lifestyle coaching practice down in Southern California. And he said, try this water and try the hospital water. And he gave them to me again, I didn't know who this guy was. But he gave me his water that he charges using a variety of techniques at his house. And it was almost effervescent. It was like this is wild, wildly different and better than the junk that they're serving us in the hospital. But I digress. You know, air quality, we work on all those types of things. And we get into the medical history, we get into birth stories, and how did those births go for you. Because oftentimes, people when they say, I am deathly afraid of going to the hospital again, for my birth, I need a home birth doctor. They're not asking because they think that you're like really, really cool that your website looks great. They're asking because they had a really traumatic experience before it may have been strapped that being strapped down to the, you know, in a C section, it may be that the baby was taken away, and then it didn't get to breastfeed the baby within the first 30 or 60 minutes. So we know that these things are important. This is not just like woowoo stuff this is this is could be very detrimental to the bonding experience between baby and mom in the first hours or days or weeks or months of life. So so we talk about all of that stuff. First and foremost, we try to get that stuff ironed out. And then we talk about what things look like going forward.

Dr. Paul  1:13:16  
That's fantastic. Now if if we were seeing you so we were wanting you to be our ob gyn, are we going to deliver at a hospital? Are we going to try a home birth? What are what are our options?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:13:27  
I am fully I'm a full advocate for home birth at this point. I know I will say that that doesn't mean that hospital birth is bad. I think that if you're a low risk patient and the risk stratification within the world of ob gyn is really tricky. But, you know, if you've had a couple vaginal births, and you had that bad experience last time, and now you're considering home birth, I think in most situations, I'm probably going to say let's explore the home birth option. Let's see how this sounds to you. So sorry, my dog's crying in the background here

Dr. Paul  1:14:00  
I know of a home birth that you might be able to share with us.

Dr Nathan Riley  1:14:05  
I think being I think being in a space that is low stress, there isn't all the beeping lights, there isn't all the noise and the commotion, people interrupting you in this really sacred experience that can again it can be exciting, stressful, scary, etc. putting you in a space where you already feel safe in your surroundings, in your home, in your guest room, in your bathroom, whatever it is surrounded by a person who doesn't need to necessarily defend you, right your partner whoever that is, and to have somebody there who actually is just holding space for this experience and ready being ready and willing to jump in if something needs to be done. I you know, we were talking about a mutual friend of ours to Fishbein, he he's been a mentor of mine since residency and I went to a homebirth once with him and he said, I'm going to teach you the artal the subtle art of doing nothing. And it really is it's like if you're really confident in what you No happens within the physiologic process of birth, you realize that there's very, very little that I can do, that actually is going to help. If anything, if I start tampering with stuff, I actually cause more problems. And that's what I think we see in the hospital. So a home a home birth is I think, the the defining factor that the most important feature is that you're in a place where you already feel, hey, this is an environment I'm familiar with, I'm safe here, I'm surrounded by my things, I'm in my bedroom, and I've access to my fridge. And I think that that does a lot. I mean, we we fail to realize just how important the sort of stress disease connection is. Right? And what I mean by that in pregnancy is not the pregnancy is the disease, but we actually can pathologize the process and distress is kind of driving the ship.

Dr. Paul  1:15:48  
Yep. So I know Stu, very well, and and getting to know you, I would feel completely comfortable having a baby with you guys. Doing nothing, basically. But being there on backup, right? Yeah, with that support and understanding. But I think in most of the country, the only option for home birth for people, because since so few ob gyn are comfortable with it would be using a midwife, be they a nurse, certified nurse, midwife, or lay lay midwife? Can you comment about that?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:16:19  
You know, I think it really matters on on the chemistry you have I you know, I've got some midwife, friends who I would trust more than myself, you know, at a birth, and they may meet a potential client, and it's just doesn't, it just doesn't work, I think what's really most important is that you and the person that you're in trusting with this, this space holding role, the birth keeping role, I think that there needs to be really, really good chemistry, you need to both understand that, that if something were to happen, that we both have the same expectations, expectations, and that they're sort of realistic, given your surroundings, you know, a lot of women go in thinking that the OB or the pediatrician or the midwife or whatever is there to save the day. And that isn't always possible and homebirth. And, and women who pursue homebirth are, you know, at odds with the risks and benefits that are presented through the media and a cog, about the true red, like, you know, the true realities of what it means to give birth at home. And, in, quite frankly, for many women, it's a very, very low risk environment to have a baby. On the other hand, if you're thinking that, hey, you know, the responsibilities now off my shoulders, I'm speaking from the standpoint of a patient, by, you know, by by hiring somebody like me, that's also not true. As you know, Paul, there's, there's, there's, there's few things in life that are guaranteed. And even in childbirth, sometimes things happen, and you and the person you've chosen to be, you know, your support person, in that experience, need to be on the same page as to what is our threshold for transfer? And are we communicating well? Or do we really understand, you know, one another, and I think that that's most important, whether it's a doctor or midwife.

Dr. Paul  1:17:59  
Excellent point, full disclosure for my audience. My mom was a certified nurse midwife, she actually started training programs for lay midwives, she did home births, they almost all went beautifully. Yep, he had a couple scares where people had to be transferred immediately by ambulance to the hospital, which is always what ends up giving the hospital based physicians this distorted view of home births because they only interact with them when there's a crisis. And they don't see the hundreds 1000s 10s of 1000s a worldwide millions and millions of births happening at home beautifully. Right? Yeah, right. So we're the

Dr Nathan Riley  1:18:35  
only nation, especially of the developed nations, we're the only nation on planet earth, where 99% of babies are happening in a hospital without the beeps and all the sounds and all the interruptions. I mean, we really need to get past this. So that's, that's why I'm here with

Dr. Paul  1:18:50  
you. Wonderful, thank you. Thank you for enlightening our audience about this, because I don't I think most of the families who I see in pediatrics don't even consider homebirth an option.

Dr Nathan Riley  1:19:02  
Right. Right. Well, I mean, we're a couple generations removed from that being, you know, in we're talking about 120 years ago, you know, the turn of the century. But that's not that long ago. I mean, we're, we're where I'm hoping we can get back there.

Dr. Paul  1:19:16  
Absolutely. So I want to pivot to something called informed consent. In medicine, this is I I kind of it's the core of my career in pediatrics. And because vaccines are such a big part of what we do as pediatricians is honoring informed consent, meaning that no matter what the medical intervention is, whether it's a medical treatment or a vaccine, patients should have the the benefits, the risks and the alternatives. I was just curious if you might address what areas of informed consent come up most often in ob gyn care.

Dr Nathan Riley  1:19:50  
Yeah, I you know, I think that your field in my field probably are rife with problems within the you know, the exercising of a patient's rights and every hospital has the patient Bill of Rights. And informed consent is the big one. But I don't know what your experience was in residency, but I never really saw informed consent being really engaged, right, I didn't really ever see a modeled. But the other part of a woman's rights when she goes into give birth is not just informed consent, which includes risks, benefits, alternatives to everything that you want to do, including a vaginal exam, even if you quote, need to check on the baby. The other part of it is the right to refuse treatment. So what we do in the hospital is we we have been modeled for us and this is not to blame the OB GYN, it's because you've been trained like this, and the person who trained you was trained like this. But what we do is we we have developed language and it's scripted to the at this point so deeply that we don't even realize what we're doing. But we use language in such a way that causes people to do things that we think is best for them. And that becomes very problematic when you understand, again, the patient's values, fears, their ambitions, their whatever, whatever is important to them. So and so go ahead. Are you going to say something?

Dr. Paul  1:21:06  
Oh, no, just see if you can think of the situations that most often happen in the process of delivering a baby where informed consent probably should take place, but it's not. Yeah,

Dr Nathan Riley  1:21:19  
I think that the vaginal exam, you know, a sterile vaginal exam, as we call it is the the most egregious it's the space where I'm seeing the most egregious errors taking place. And so an OB GYN will go in and stick their hand into a woman's vagina to check for cervical dilation, in hopes that it might help them ascertain some metric that will help them you know, along the decision making tree going forward in childbirth, the problem is that the cervical exam number one doesn't often really tell you much that's going to help you manage the labor, right. And number two, if anything, it actually is used more often to to diagnose an arrest disorder, like a failure to descend or to dilate. And if you didn't do the exam, you probably would actually inadvertently give her enough time to actually have a vaginal birth. But that's, that's a whole separate conversation. What's more important to me is that the common pattern is you run into a labor and delivery room, the nurse holds one leg, the partner is told to hold the other leg and you forcibly insert your hand into somebody's vagina. And then you now have the information, right? And in the process, what you do is you say, I need to check real quick. And you you glove up, and you go in there, and more and more women are coming and telling me is there an alternative to having a hospital birth because I cannot have another vaginal exam, I can have another stranger running in and doing this. And so it seems really, really, I think it seems very benign. But when you think about how many times we're doing this, and how infrequently we're really getting informed consent, and it's a consensual exam, it becomes appalling when you realize, gosh, like this would be something so easy to change. And so that's, that's the big one. I think that I mean, I could give 1000 other examples, vacuum assisted deliveries, a PCR dummies was a thing of the past, but people are still doing that, especially if they're if they've got an epidural, starting medicines like pitocin and not really giving and, you know, getting in for obtaining consent for that. C sections, we use course of language, it's not informed consent. If you use language like, hey, if I don't do this, your baby's gonna die, even if that's not entirely true. So, I mean, I could give 1000 examples. But that's, that's why I figured I need to actually just do my own thing. I need to find a way to model this for people. And if there's residents or med students that want to come and learn what actual patient centered care looks like, it's going to require a shared decision making process that involves informed consent and supporting them in the decision, even if it means that they want to exercise the right to refuse treatment.

Dr. Paul  1:23:54  
Yeah. Well, thank you. That was exactly what I was hoping for some of those critical points that just happen. And you're absolutely right. We've gotten so good at language. Let's pivot to vaccines just because we're putting it out there. The COVID vaccine is already in full rollout for adults, and it's coming for children. I know it wasn't tested in pregnancy, and yet it's now being recommended. What are your thoughts? thoughts about that?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:24:24  
No, I mean, we're still shaming women for having orgasms in pregnancy and having a glass of wine once in a while, or whatever. And now without any safety data. I mean, keep in mind, it takes five to seven years for even a really, really well understood pharmaceutical to get through the FDA. And before there was any even preliminary data a cog was saying, yep, it's probably safe for pregnant women. So I am not, you know, quote, anti vaxxer I hate that term now because I'm realizing how improper it's it's improperly. It's being applied to people, but what women are coming to me Asking about is is this safe? And the answer is, I don't know. Which is why, which is why I would hope that our governing colleges would back me up and saying, Hey, guys, I appreciate you wanting to give this to the elderly or people that are at high risk for, you know, respiratory viral illness, we're going to hold off in recommending it to all pregnant women or children or whatever else, because we really don't know I mean, we didn't learn anything from DS exposure or thalidomide or, or McKenna or any of these other meds that were introduced into the OB GYN population, not even just in pregnancy, but especially in pregnancy, in order and then to see downstream consequences. Like it's like we've not learned anything. And like I said, we're still shaming women, for, for, for having a glass of wine. And to me, it's like, it was so baffling. When that recommendation came out that it actually was the moment that I started questioning the entire COVID thing. And I I am not a denier. I'm not any of those things. I prior to this year had every excuse me, every vaccine that was ever offered to me. And now I'm really wondering, like why on earth is a cog doing this. So I do not envy your position as a pediatrician having to now sort of help help your patients navigate these waters around vaccinating children. I think that we need a lot more data. I mean, we need 1020 years worth of data before we introduce a totally new technology into a gestating into a into a mother with a gestating fetus.

Dr. Paul  1:26:34  
Yeah, no, I was sleepless and horrified when a cog, came out with the DPT, you know, recommendation for pregnancy that we were going to start doing that because I was already aware of problems in pediatrics, and the aluminum content of that vaccine and thinking, huh, we're just hasn't been tested. We're just going to do it. We're going to experiment on all the women in the United States and start that injection. Because we're worried about whooping cough, I understand the rationale for thinking that way. Absolutely. But they just jump in and basically experiment on our population. And the sad part is they don't even set it up as a proper prospective study. So we can see the outcome, right? So that we can compare those who choose not to vaccinate with those who do and see if we have the right outcomes. We never look

Dr Nathan Riley  1:27:24  
right, right. Yeah. And I have people daily sending me articles that are like, doesn't this article suggest this and this about the vaccine like, like, doesn't this? Like doesn't this show that it's probably safe? And it's like, this is a terrible study? Like I can I mean, I'm picking apart these studies left and right. And it's not because I want to be want to support my internal bias. The scientific process is one in which we explore truth. It is not a matter of I believe in it or not, it's this data does not tell me anything. Yeah. And for people to say that anybody like me or you is pushing back, and that somehow we're now anti science, or we're, we're anti vaxxers, or whatever, like, Paul, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling like, Hey, I went to all this school, in order to serve some sort of civil duty, and that is to be a physician and to stand up and say, Listen, I'm not totally confident that you guys are making the right recommendation here. I'm going to have to bow back out here. In fact, you know, a Club's guidelines or guidelines, they are not set in stone. Right. But when people start actually threatening licenses and whatnot, because people were asking, asking questions that in and of itself, and you everybody listening, that in and of itself is anti scientific. That is that is a that is a bias against the people that you're entrusting with your care. And, and that's I think that's those are dangerous grounds. Really?

Dr. Paul  1:28:44  
Yeah, no, I think I get baffled by the apparently high percentage of our colleagues who just unquestionably they just, they don't they don't seem to be thinking anymore. Yeah, or what happened to the ethics of first do no harm what happened to the ethics of the precautionary principle where we're not going to do something that might be dangerous until we're sure it's safe. That's why it's so important, especially for your your part of medicine, where you're dealing with the unborn child, and ushering out into the world this new life. I mean, why would you do anything that might be harmful or toxic to that developing baby's brain and immune system? Yeah, it's baffling. Yeah, what else would you like to just give you a couple minutes here to have the platform what's burning in your heart that you'd like to share with the world?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:29:39  
We desperately need to get back to asking questions and being comfortable with the people that we're that we are. That we're we're handing over the reins in our health right like we we need doctors and nurse practitioners and midwives and providers. Pediatricians, ob gyn we need everybody to be helping us maintain our health. And if the people that are entrusted with that who've done all the work, right, they're not politicians, they're trying to not politicize anything we need to, as physicians in those providers, the thing we can do in order to restore that trust is to continue to ask questions, and really to push back and say, we're not going to do this, like, Well, I'm not going to do this until I know it's safe. And I think that this past 18 months have been really, really hard. I think that, you know, in my domain, in women's health care, I'm realizing that we need to completely redefine what quality care looks like, in the women's health care spectrum. And that's a very expensive, very time consuming, and very energy consuming process. But that's what the next 35 years of my practice are going to look like. And I kind of just want to fall on the right side of history. But I also in meeting individuals, you become less of a statistic that shows up in some paper and more of a person who I see eye to eye with because we're pregnant with our second. And I wouldn't recommend anything to my to my patients or clients or whoever, that I wouldn't recommend to my wife. And it's a lot of pressure. But it's also a bit of a privileged role that I get to play. And I am really, really happy to engage with anybody or collaborate with anybody out there, who after reviewing my website and hearing this language that you and I are using, Paul, if anybody wants to help me try to really model this, please reach out and like we need to do something because this whole thing is just unraveling. And I'm not talking about just COVID. I'm talking about the informed consent, I mean, all this stuff that we're talking about, like we can do way better, and we know it, so let's do it. Let's just do it.

Dr. Paul  1:31:41  
Yeah, the healthcare system is just a sick care system where we're saving money into crises. We're not really building wellness, we're not building health. I know that's where you're headed. You've got your Lifestyle coaching approach, you've got your holistic approach and your patient centered. That's the direction we need to go. How do people get in touch with you share your website, if you would?

Dr Nathan Riley  1:32:02  
Yeah, it's Beloved, holistic, calm. That's h o Li s t ICS. Hope I spelled that right, beloved, holistics, calm and then I'm working on the social media stuff. I've never used social media, but I'm trying to generate a presence there. Because I'm realizing I have to have to actually do this, I have to really put my whole body and soul into this. So find me on the website, you can you can reach out through there and get my email and all that other stuff.

Dr. Paul  1:32:27  
Oh, that's wonderful. Dr. Nathan Riley, thank you for bringing your wisdom, your calm approach your sensible approach to our audience, and any parting thoughts to the world.

Dr Nathan Riley  1:32:39  
Paul, I want to thank you for doing what you do. The what I've learned about you is that you have kind of paved a path here, and you're making it a little easier for little people like me, to really do the type of medicine that I think people like you and I thought we would be doing when we embarked on this very long and expensive journey. So thank you for modeling, you know, good physician behavior, and I really appreciate what you've contributed to this as well. Well,

Dr. Paul  1:33:04  
thanks Nathan. God bless and look forward to chatting with you again. Yes, thank you.

Welcome to against the wind doctors and science under fire Bernadette, it is so great to have you back You are so involved with informed choice Washington and informed life radio that I understand will now in the near future be featured on children's health defense TV that is so exciting.

Bernadette Pajer  1:33:34  
It is an I hear you are going to be on children's health defense TV as well.

Dr. Paul  1:33:39  
Hence the win doctors in science under fire has been invited. So folks, stay tuned. This is very, very exciting for everyone. Today, we're gonna dive into Well, let me let me start by telling you a story that you don't know yet. One of my daughters who's African and has some health risks. So she is in a higher risk category had a positive COVID test after loss of sense of smell and taste five days ago, and she was very severe for a couple days. You know, I gave her the whole list of what to do right? All the supplements we know i mean it's starting with a massive dose of vitamin D because I don't think they were faithful about that. And happy to report that she was getting better. She actually found a source for ivermectin started that last night. But this morning is having symptoms of pericardial you know kind of symptoms, which is concerning she has had problems with around her heart in the past. So what you're about to share, folks, it almost is better that you're not a doctor because if I share what you're about to share, you know, my medical board can come down on me and saying that I'm like, whatever right misinformation. You are sharing science and you're not a doctor. So this folks is just information about what you might want to consider doing. You know, it is quite clear that the Delta variant that is so prevalent in this country in many parts of the world is very contagious. Now, we don't think it's as serious an illness for most people. But if you are high risk, have underlying conditions or are very old sure there is risk. But because it's so contagious, my prediction is everyone whether you're vaccinated or not, or close to everyone will be exposed and we'll get it. Now you might be asymptomatic, meaning you have no symptoms or you might be so affected that it is a risk to your life. And what we are sharing today, what Bernadette is going to share with you are some considerations that could greatly reduce your risk both of getting an infection and if you do get an infection of that infection becoming severe. So with that said, Bernadette, I'm eager to see what you have to share with us.

Bernadette Pajer  1:36:03  
Yeah, you bet. And so here we go. And and this is all about being prepared from day one. And I really wish that your daughter had had these things on hand. So

Unknown Speaker  1:36:13  
these are the founding physicians of the front line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance. They convened to develop highly effective treatment protocols to prevent the transmission of COVID-19 and to improve the outcomes for patients ill with the disease. Today, they want you to know how to prevent COVID-19, even against the variance. This is the molecule of ivermectin, the medicine that can end the pandemic. ivermectin was discovered and developed in 1975 in Japan by Dr. Satoshi ammara. And Dr. William Campbell. In 2015, doctors Mora and Campbell each received the Nobel Prize in Medicine for ivermectin discovery, they deserved it, the medicine has brought relief and saved the lives of millions across the globe for nearly 40 years. ivermectin was first used in humans in 1987 for the treatment of parasitic diseases. It has eradicated pandemics of numerous diseases for four decades. Plus, for nearly 40 years, it has been given safely across the world nearly 4 billion times. ivermectin is on the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines. It has been deemed to be one of the safest medicines known to mankind. But this workhorse of a drug is not yet finished. In the past eight months, numerous controlled clinical trials are reporting consistent large improvements in COVID-19. patient outcomes when treated with ivermectin, people treated with ivermectin experience numerous clinical benefits, fewer infections, reduced inflammatory markers, more rapid improvement, more rapid viral clearance, shorter hospitalization, and a reduction in mortality. As you can see, ivermectin has been very well studied across the world. In fact, the amount of scientific medical evidence is mountainous. As of July 16 2021 60, clinical studies including 30 randomized controlled trials have evaluated the role of ivermectin in the treatment or prevention of COVID-19. Here's how it works. ivermectin inhibits the replication of many viruses, including SARS, covi, to influenza and others. ivermectin has potent anti inflammatory properties with multiple mechanisms of action. ivermectin diminishes viral load and protects against organ damage and animal models of SARS COVID to infection. It prevents transmission of covid 19. When taken either pre or post exposure, it hastens recovery and decreases hospitalization and mortality in patients with COVID-19. And it leads to far lower case fatality rates and regions with war. widespread use. Then, when ivermectin is used with the additional components in the FL CCC alliances eyemask plus protocol, it can work even better in preventing COVID-19. So here's what the FL CCC Critical Care Physician team recommends. Just like you keep a first aid kit around the house, please start keeping a just in case COVID kit. Here is what the kit contains ivermectin, vitamin d3, vitamin C, course a 10, zinc, melatonin, and gargle or mouthwash you can find our eyemask plus protocol, plus all of our prevention and treatment protocols at EF L, CCC dotnet. We wish you a lifetime of good health.

Bernadette Pajer  1:41:12  
So those are the wonderful folks there at the FLC CC. So I you know, I'm encouraging everybody I talked to to get that COVID kit. And of course, the limiting factor is finding a pharmacy that will fill it. And if you go to that flcc website, they do have a place on their menu tab where they're giving recommendations of pharmacies still filling and how to get ahold of it. So that needs to be always updated. There's it's a war against treatment. It's Yeah, that's a whole other show. Right. Dr. Paul's

Dr. Paul  1:41:46  
another show, I would add to that treatment kit, folks, get yourself a pulse oximeter, you can buy them on Amazon or most pharmacies now sell them, it's a little tiny box that just fits on your finger, and it will read your oxygen level. Because really until your oxygen is into the low 90s. Or if it ends up in the 80s, you absolutely must go into the hospital. But if you're in the 90s, you're still okay to fight this at home, and do everything possible to obviously avoid being thrown into quarantine and possibly being intubated. I mean, last resort, if that's what you need, so be it. But this is not a disease that really responds well, to intubation, you might need as oxygen and hyperbaric oxygen,

Bernadette Pajer  1:42:28  
it would be h bar, it would be so much superior. Yeah, but let's let's try to help people to make early choices. So they never even have to make that.

Dr. Paul  1:42:38  
Right. Yeah. And I was sending the alert out to my family just today, telling them about my daughter and saying folks, be prepared. This is coming. We're all going to be exposed because it's so contagious. I mean, it's been likened to chickenpox, and most of you who are parents are old enough to know what chickenpox was like, it just would go through your family, it would go through the community. And so yeah, just be ready. Be prepared,

Bernadette Pajer  1:43:04  
be prepared. And the good news for those who already had COVID who have natural immunity is recent study, looking at the antibodies produced by natural immunity is it's protective about against about two dozen variants, including the Delta variant. So if you've got natural immunity, you should be perfectly safe and fine. still get your COVID kit on hand. You know, it's good to be prepared and make sure your loved ones are prepared. So I wanted to go just quickly through if I could hear Dr. Paul. So this what you're looking at here is the FL CCC website. And I've clicked over to their eyemask prevention and early outpatient treatment protocol. So I encourage your viewers to visit frequently. And they will be clicking on the you know what no matter what country you're in, they have them for all country, all countries and just look they're updating it as things change. These guys are awesome. They're staying on top of the variance and shifting things, adding things making sure that everybody knows the current best advice here and they provide it here for you. And they provide the amounts they recommend that you take. And then they have a frequently asked question page. That's great to go through and explains you know, frequently asked questions about what they're recommending and why Purdue to go visit that page. And then the mouthwash is what I wanted to focus on at the at the end here because this is really exciting nasal irrigation and mouth washes have there's been many studies showing that this is highly effective at both preventing you from becoming sick if exposed and also of reducing viral load if you if you do become infected, it helps prevent this Your case helps you recover more quickly. So I was looking up on PubMed, some of the studies here. And

Dr. Paul  1:45:08  
if I can just interrupt that might say, for our listeners, most of you know that if you travel overseas, you might take iodine with you, or if you're a camper, you might take iodine to purify your water, it is a very, very well known product for that use. And now this is a repurpose that is very exciting, because it's a pretty easy thing to do.

Bernadette Pajer  1:45:30  
Very easy thing to do. And, and iodine has been around, you know, I mean, it's a natural product, and it's been around so long, it's been highly studied. So they know safe dosages, you know, and there's so much known about how to use it safely, and what concentrations and so here's one study that shows that the it's provato dash iodine, you can use it like an sino nasal, so a nasal flush, and also for oral cavities, gargling different solutions, you don't want such a high concentration in the nose, it's more sensitive because it's going internally, the gargles can be set it a little bit higher concentration, but it's been found a completely kill inactivate the SARS covi do. So just write gargling twice a day doing a nasal flash, you know is what is being recommended.

Dr. Paul  1:46:28  
One to two and a half percent solution could be in the nose. Folks, if you've never done this, I do it consistently because I've had past sinus problems. You can do the neti pot where you just pour it in one side and it kind of rolls out the other but they now have a much easier way you just get a squeeze bottle up one nostril and you just flip flush it through blow into the sink flush the other side blow into the sink. You can do this with pure sailing, I like to use purified water whether it's Distilled or you have your own purification system. I wouldn't use tap water with chlorine it's off awfully irritating. And I like to add the little sailing because pure water kind of stings. But if you've got the sailing in there, it feels very natural to your body.

Bernadette Pajer  1:47:09  
Yeah, you can purchase sailing or you can purchase distilled water and then make your own sailing you can look up you know the water to salt percentages. You can use reverse osmosis water. If you've got one of those units at home, you can use that but definitely all the all the recommendations are not to use just straight tap water right because of the contaminants that might be in there. And so you know, I look forward on future shows with you Dr. Paul, maybe finding some places to give exact dosages and percentage and all that sort of thing. But I think a lot of people if either if they go explore right now they're gonna find a lot of information about how to make a safe percent of dosage of a gargle with the iodine as well as the right nasal solution to do and as far as gargle goes, a lot of the studies are also showing that Listerine gargling with Listerine does a fantastic job of neutralizing the virus. So these are sort of dentists

Dr. Paul  1:48:11  
are the dentists are all over that recommendation gargle with Listerine twice a day, there's a lot of infections that start in the teeth. And and that's a great place to make sure your mouth is is cleaner and a source of what might cause you problems later. And the size of pharynx is definitely right, a major source where SARS is replicating, and then getting down into your respiratory.

Bernadette Pajer  1:48:35  
I'm excited to explore this because it could be such a simple solution, not only to COVID, but to flu and cold and all that is just a healthy oral nasal to put into your routine. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  1:48:50  
So thank you, Bernadette. We want our viewers to know that if you are empowered with information, you know how to maximize your own natural immunity. And even if you've been vaccinated, you can boost your natural immunity just like anybody else. And you can reduce viral loads with this nasal flush approach or the gargle and spit approach. These are things you can do for LCCC we thank you for all the hard work you've done. I couldn't keep up, honestly. And so you have a team you've done amazing work and you've made this available for free for the world. That's a gift to the world folks. We wish you health stay well. And if you are high risk quarantine works. It's it's something to consider. But for anybody who can have a healthy immune system, you now have tools maybe you didn't have before. Thanks, Bernadette. You're welcome.

Bernadette Pajer  1:49:47  
Thank you, Dr. Paul.

Dr. Paul  1:49:48  
All the best in your travels. Thanks. help me spread the truth and share this on social media and with their friends at doctors in science calm. I look forward to running With you against the wind, go to our website doctors and science comm sign up. Donate if you can. Let's make this the weekly show the nation's been waiting for. I'm Dr. Paul.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai