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​Dr. Paul  0:04  
Dr. Paul, welcome to with the web science revealed. My guest today is Kelly Sutton. She's been a huge supporter of mine when I was going through everything I was going through, and she's just been going through the same thing. Now she was trained 55 years ago, one of only 10 women in her class. She's had the same board issues I had with no prior board complaints, hospital complaints, malpractice judgments. The Medical Board of California came after her and took her license, and then other boards from other states followed suit with no complaints whatsoever. Dr. Sutton is fighting not just to save her career, but to save the future of medicine itself. Don't miss the powerful ending where Didi talks to her about her life, the personal story of her journey, and then her from the soul. Enjoy the show.

Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I wanted to talk to you today about ego and fear. And the antidote to that, which is love and soulful living. I lived in ego a lot towards the end of my career, and I didn't even know it. So it was just this. I'm in charge. Everything's about me and, and I went there and I lived there and I stayed there. And it's funny, not funny at all, actually, how those two things often go together. Have you ever been fearful? Might you be a little in ego thinking that it all depends on you. The opposite is such a beautiful place to be when you let go. It's not all about me. It's not for me to fix. It's for me to love. It's for me to be honest. It's for me to do what I can to be loving and soulful with everybody I interact with. I am so blessed by those of you watching who send love I feel it, who sends support, and the guests I have the privilege and honor to work with so many of them are so deeply soulful and loving. That's what I get to be surrounded with. And I would encourage you to do the same thing. Live with love, lead with love and surround yourself with loving soulful people. It will nurture your soul, it will bring you joy and peace and happiness and serenity. And take away what everything that we were trying to avoid ego and fear. So I wish for you a very wonderful 2024 And that you fill your world with loving soulful people, and living a life filled with purpose and love.

Welcome Dr. Kelly Sutton to with the wind science revealed it is such a pleasure to have you on the show.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  2:54  
Oh, I've always looked forward to hearing from you and about you. Because I think from the very beginning, you were doing things with a level of courage and acknowledgement of the truth that was hard for doctors to do. And but you did it anyhow. You did the research on Vax versus unvaccinated even though the big people that should have been doing it, CDC wouldn't. So I just have to thank you for that. And you've been challenged, chased, and you've continued to spread the truth. And I hope you're feeling freer than you were at a certain point when you were in the midst of that, being chased down by the Medical Board of Oregon.

Dr. Paul  3:39  
Oh, so much for your and your time will come to folks, you're gonna listen to one of my true heroes. Dr. Kelly Sutton is also going through a lot of the same things I've been through. We're both going to tell you right here and now everything we talk about is for educational purposes only. We're not diagnosing or treating. So just to have that stated, you actually trained I think more than 10 years before I did I was reading that you've been trained 55 years ago. Yes. Yeah. Wow. You don't look like it could be anywhere near that old.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  4:13  
I'm there. I'm there.

Dr. Paul  4:16  
God bless you for taking on this challenge. This fight that we have on our hands that really we didn't ask for. They brought it to us. We trained back when there was a real physical exam and basic science physiology. Patients were an exciting challenge, write and write a guideline it was creative. You write that it was such a creative and satisfying experience.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  4:38  
Yes.

Dr. Paul  4:39  
You wrote that I want to hear a Martin Luther King figure for the profession of medicine. Voicing I have a dream about the future of healing to characterize where we go next for the next five decades.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  4:52  
Dr. Sutton give us your I Have a Dream message my dream for the future of medicine. Thank You and I want to hear yours too. And a lot of people, because I think that's the point we're at is recreating what has not worked, because it was hijacked. The dream I have is it, we can have the real art of medicine with the observation, the use of skills like palpation, percussion, using the stethoscope, the otoscope, everything, instead of being machine focused, right? In the old days, the patient and the doctor sat across from one another. And then the patient was examined by the doctor hands on. And the writing of notes, or the ordering of lab tests, looking at the images was secondary. But now it's like the patient is a sidebar. And the real question is, how do I document this? And the thing I noticed in the notes today is the chief complaint as the only thing that's still alive. I would like to see, when the chief complaint is stated that we then also go further in our history and say, what makes it better? What makes it worse? What have you tried? Did it help? How long did it help and get the full picture from the patient, which is not reflected in today's electronic health records. And that we could have a real physical exam, because right now, I think a lot of doctors are documenting physical exams, with only putting the stethoscope over the shirt or blouse, and calling that the examination of the heart and lungs. So I think those skills before they get lost, I would love to see those recaptured in medicine or in whatever profession is going to carry true healing. I think healing is built into human nature of some humans, that it's just an automatic instinct to reach out to try to help and to use analysis of the situation. And of treatment options are what's available. To help the person in need. I would like to see that nurtured again, like it once was in medicine, where it really called to a person's idealism. And drew together, people who wanted to study science could handle reading the science, and could learn the arts that I just described, deep skills and physical exam and history taking, and could use creativity because they were trained. We were trained in physiology. We didn't have to get guidelines. They were there. They were helpful. But we could analyze from understanding how does an ulcer happen? What's the story I'm hearing for the patient that relates to the physiology I know, to guide my next question. But I suspect Medical School and Continuing Medical Education Today is all devoted to understanding the guidelines, the charting requirements, and the things that make your practice stable and saleable from the regulatory side. So I'm hoping for freedom and the restoration of a real art of medicine.

Dr. Paul  8:26  
While I'm hearing you say, I have a dream that the patient doctor relationship is restored? Yes, we have freedom to practice the art and science of medicine. Yes, I think we need to have the freedom to allow ethical decisions to be made by the physician in consultation and with the patient, and that we not be bound by arbitrary guidelines that come from above, we really have got to get back to putting the patient first. And following our ethical duty to be of service to our patients. It was always such an honor, wasn't it to be the physician for a patient who needs us what a privilege we've had. It

Dr. Kelly Sutton  9:09  
is we're given a level of intimacy and intimate information and exchange with the person that is based in trust. And that is a huge compliment. It's the highest compliment and that's where we do have that privilege of being in medicine. And I don't think trust is cultivated any longer. It's not needed. Because the binary questions do you have pain in your head? Patient denies it or Yes, pain in the head is not enough. Right?

Dr. Paul  9:52  
I was chatting with my roommate last evening. He's all three to four years post cancer diagnosis and He went in to see his oncologist this week, the oncologist asked him one or two questions. How are you feeling? Great. Your labs look great. Put a stethoscope as you mentioned, right on the we used to tease the orthopedic point where you could listen to heart, lungs and abdominal sounds all at once. And that was the physical exam, the whole thing took less than five minutes. And that was it. He was just looking over his bill $600 Just for that part. And it's like medicine is being destroyed. Yes, absolute sort of just protocol driven science, I dream of parents being able to make every decision for their children about what goes into their bodies. Yeah, that we get back to uplifting the natural healing hour of the human body.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  10:46  
Thank you. We are too narrow. Healing is beyond pharmaceuticals alone, we have to look at the immense power that's built into the human physical design. And take advantage of that and understand it before we rock the boat. So thank you, that's another strong leg for the dream to stand on is to expand it to natural treatments. Indeed.

Dr. Paul  11:12  
So I want to get into your story. You were one of only 10 Women in medical school in your class. I think by the time I came along, 10 years later, I was 5050. So you were really one of those pioneering women, and you're fighting not just to save your career, but to save the future of medicine and the health of patients everywhere. So tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you end up getting in the crosshairs of the medical board.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  11:41  
I have always had vaccines in my office. And my patients pretty much always got tetanus and polio. But as we got into more and more vaccines, I had patients who didn't know that they wanted to have the pneumococcal the HIV, the rotavirus, the hep B. And so I would sometimes have those available because there was enough demand, but sometimes I'd have to order them if a patient wanted them. And then I was in California when 2011 California made a switch in parents rights to make decisions about their children's vaccine schedule. And they said that each parent had to be educated by a school nurse practitioner or a doctor and the provider had to sign that the education had happened before the parents personal belief exemption from one or more vaccines was considered valid and could be submitted to the school. About four years later, California brought SB 277. Under greyed out cry from parents flocking to the capitol and staying there in hot sweaty holes for an entire summer by a few 1000 in numbers, but to no avail. I'm sure it influenced the wording of the bill because originally it said only contraindications would be allowed for medical exemptions and no other type of exemption would exist. It's interesting that the literature the legislation did not address religious exemption directly. But everybody was going to state a fear and assumed this means the religious exemption is gone also, because the word beliefs was plural. That was probably a mishap of the legislative process that it wasn't brought up that

Dr. Paul  13:40  
we needed to effectively remove both philosophical and religious didn't it effectively

Dr. Kelly Sutton  13:46  
in people's actions. But whether the law actually is written to say that, I think has to be tested in court. We don't know for sure. But it was it left a very broad for the doctor's discretion to be the foundation of medical exemptions. And in the legislative discussion, Senator Pan said, Of course that includes autoimmune disease, family history. You don't even have to be the child's doctor. And it could be for as long as as needed. Just write a note. He made it sound very simple and straightforward. But when the time came, there was a shift in the media's coverage. Senator Pan started saying doctors are greedy. There's doctors selling medical exemptions. This is a for profit, effort. It's against our children, as though there was a divide between the exempting doctors and the public. And from my experiences in exempting doctor, I was receiving patients who had damaged themselves damage in the family and whose own specialists or primary doctor refused to write exemptions. They sought a out a doctor who was willing to do that. I knew what I was writing exemptions that I might have to defend each one in court or in summer, legal setting. But I was not supporting children going through college at that point, I was freer, because I'm older to do what I felt was the right thing to do.

Dr. Paul  15:21  
You had a sense that there was danger. Yes. Yeah. I remember that feeling when I wrote the vaccine friendly plan, or that fact my mom even was accusing my co author, you are putting my son's head on a platter. It was like you're doing something that is clearly not what the establishment has set out as what they want. Yeah. And that's what good science should be. Anyway, we should be questioning everything.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  15:47  
I think so and probably good education. And anything going should be questioning the status quo, because we're by design, always improving and evolving. Right?

Dr. Paul  15:58  
So back to your story. You didn't write hundreds or 1000s of exemptions, you just wrote, how many?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  16:05  
Oh, I wrote a number of exemptions, probably close to 1000. But I didn't keep track. But it was eight cases that were brought in front of the medical board. And parents were given the option of turning over the records immediately, but chose not to. And then they had to be subpoenaed. And I went through the process of a hearing and the question of a settlement that I was planning to move east to Massachusetts to be grandma. And it didn't make sense for me to accept a heavy duty probation and pay for a monitor, pay for charts being checked, keep an office in California where I'm living in Massachusetts. So I said, I don't want a settlement. And it went to a hearing in front of administrative law judge. And despite the fact that I had excellent witnesses, Dr. noin Shawanda, who's headed the maps program for years,

Dr. Paul  17:05  
and really founder and scientist. Yep, articulate

Dr. Kelly Sutton  17:09  
Yes, and powerful speaker. And he's been at the ASIC meeting, so he knows how the process of approval of vaccines works. And Dr. latrine Huang, who has taken care of children with Vaccine Injury through her work with homeopathy. And Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, whose incredible deep work in pediatric neurology has, with his colleagues documented that 30% of regressive autism is related to mitochondrial dysfunction.

Dr. Paul  17:42  
Yeah, he was the one that famously involved in the HANA Pauling case, right?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  17:48  
I think he was the co worker of the father of Hana, was it

Dr. Paul  17:54  
that might have been what it was, but it really showed clearly that vaccines can cause Yes. And in fact, that's what that case ended up proving they tried to save just because of mitochondrial dysfunction. I think many of us know that there are a lot of people walking around with mitochondrial dysfunction, like maybe all of us

Dr. Kelly Sutton  18:15  
were at some level it's acquired, taking Tylenol enough would probably give us all mitochondrial dysfunction. But the combination of some genetic vulnerability and then a few doses of Tylenol and a bunch of vaccines on a developing nervous system is a recipe for autism. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  18:32  
So back to your hearing, you actually went through one of these ordeals, right? Where your, your you got your attorney, and you've got your witnesses. Tell us a little more about how that went.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  18:44  
I was totally naive to the legal system. So I did not know what anybody's role was. The rules of the game were how to address or formulate a strategy. So I pretty much did, as I was told by the attorney, and then learned later that we should have asked for discovery, we should have asked for the opportunity to say who is the expert witness Deborah layman that you're bringing here and she's pediatric infectious disease. She doesn't deal with seeing vaccine injured children administering vaccines herself, writing medical exemptions. So essentially, she's not qualified. And yet, she was accepted by the players in the courtroom at that time. And it was this slam dunk. Everything, just trivialize what I was saying. And turned that whole outcome to be of course, you only use the ACF guidelines. And you only did that and anything other than that is an extreme deviation from the standard of care. So hyperbole about what was a protective action for children. and was not giving them a wrong treatment, but withholding treatment, which is part of the Hippocratic Oath, the first do no harm. And the decision was made to revoke my license.

Dr. Paul  20:14  
Wow. And that happened pretty quickly. I imagined it

Dr. Kelly Sutton  20:18  
did. And then I tried to petition for reconsideration, submitted the petition. And within less than one business day, 400 pages of documents were said to have been reviewed and rejected. So when they hadn't read it did an ex parte to the Superior Court in Sacramento. And the judge said, Look, this didn't happen, and called the Deputy Attorney General and myself for a brief hearing and asked him, What would the medical board do if it had the option to redo this? He said, we would out of fear. Rhys, consider this petition. So as my license was extended, probably an extra month or so due to my petition to reconsider. But ultimately, the same outcome was the revocation of my license in 2222.

Dr. Paul  21:16  
And so basically, you appealed it, they shot it down. And that's it for that case, is it done?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  21:21  
That's the administrative level. So I do have still pending two writs at the Superior Court in Sacramento. But I'm not actively pursuing those, because I want to work with the federal case with a group of doctors who are working with a civil rights attorney on that right now.

Dr. Paul  21:45  
I'm really excited to hear that before we get to that. One other thing you had happened to you exactly what happened to me I happen to have been licensed also in I was originally licensed and practicing in Oregon. I was licensed in Washington, my neighboring state, and I had some patients there, but they were driving to my office in Oregon. And then I had a license in Hawaii where I had never practiced, but I always thought, oh, I might retire there someday, and, and I can have a license, all those licenses fell like dominoes, and maybe tell us what happened to you. Because I know you had licenses in other states as well.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  22:19  
I did. And within 12 days of the first revocation by California, Massachusetts, sent me a letter saying, Oh, we're investigating you, please send such and such, or please just sign this document saying, you surrender your license, and you admit you're guilty. So I sent the documents and told them I was appealing. And for six months or so I didn't hear anything from them. And then they started getting revved up and began, what looked like was going to be a hearing process. But in fact, was a summary decision against my license and saying, based on reciprocal discipline, there is no need to reconsider anything. But the state of Massachusetts may duplicate the finding of guilt that the state of California found, and do what it chooses as discipline against me. At that time, I worked pro bono, with the help of attorney friend and other friends. And the battle was fierce, there was a lot of back and forth. And some amazing things happened in terms of just the way they conducted procedure. For instance, in my response to their motion for summary decision, I said, Please give me the points that you are saying are the reasons for this. Because in the Massachusetts law, it says that's required. And they said, that's if you're in superior court, but in administrative level, we don't have to do that. So I'm supposed to respond, been laid out for what I'm responding to. And that was my requirement. And at another point, I asked for something and the administrative master said, I will take that as a motion to reconsider. And here is the response. So he assumed that my asking was a motion to reconsider. He took the place of my attorney to call it that. And then he took the role that he had already as the administrative master to respond to it and deny it. It was an overtaking of rights. But what I'm learning is that's the way the administrative state works, that it doesn't have to be practicing real law with real orderly presentation of points, so that a person can respond or real roles defined, it can just say do this. And you can't do that. And here's the decision. So it's a tough part of our time to have this exercise of raw power in the management of regulating professionals. It's I'm not a professional. I'm more like parolee. And they're the wardens. It's no question that I've done something wrong. And they're watching really closely. What else am I going to do?

Dr. Paul  25:21  
When in fact, you haven't used simply did careful family histories, physical exams on your patients, and basically, you were saving kids who are at high risk for vaccine injury from vaccine injury. Wow. So that I had not known this term reciprocal discipline, but that's what I suffered through as well. So you lost your Massachusetts license. And I understand you have one in New York as well.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  25:45  
I had very briefly a New York license in 1982. I never activated it fully. I never practiced in New York, New York, like you not practicing in Hawaii. But nonetheless, New York said they chose to revoke my license to prevent the possibility that I should possibly consider at age 76. Starting to activate my license in New York and practicing there. They are preventing harm to the public, by revoking my license. Now,

Dr. Paul  26:16  
you You are such a threat of harm to the public.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  26:19  
Yeah, high priority in all of New York State. That's the worst criminal they've got. Wow.

Dr. Paul  26:24  
Wow. Tell me if you can, what did you learn about the Federation of State medical boards because I only became aware of that after I got entangled with this whole rigmarole with different states and all that.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  26:38  
I learned that there is a huge distribution of information about the status of my license and every doctor's license to the Federation to the national Practitioner Data Bank, to the IRS to the Attorney General's office, to many departments, and so we are under continual surveillance and didn't even know it. But as I have listened to Merrill nases case in which a member of the main medical board is on the Federation of State medical boards, even though Maine State law says, No person shall be on the Medical Board of Maine that has a conflict of interest. If you're serving the Medical Board of Maine, you should care about the health of patients in Maine. But if you are serving on the Federation of State medical boards, you have a different purpose that could conflict with what's going on. It may say that secondary, what happens to Maine public, I don't care about I want the profession of medicine to go a certain direction. But she would not recuse herself. So I now see the Federation as probably the linchpin behind the lockstep actions that medical boards across the country and around the world have taken in the last three years. And I've spoken recently with a friend who is a veterinarian, who does Holistic Veterinary work and is beloved by her patients, families, as you can imagine, because she gets good results. The pets live a long time and they're healthy, and cancers are reversed and there's less euthanasia, which is the automatic go to answer in veterinary medicine. And she her license is suspended in Massachusetts for two years. Awesome. Wow, I did not know that. Yeah. And there is an American Veterinary medicine board, American Association of Veterinary Medicine boards, that she contacted and said, Please tell me your sources of funding. And she's waiting to hear back from them.

Dr. Paul  28:47  
So that's my understanding is this federation of state medical boards. And indeed, there's the International Association of Medical regulatory authorities that you've written about. These organizations are not accountable to the public. They're not accountable to our government agencies or public health agencies. They're independently funded, I believe, to carry out what mission

Dr. Kelly Sutton  29:11  
I cannot say I've read their mission statement, but I have heard from Dr. Bruce Dooley, who now lives in practices in New Zealand, that in their meetings, they describe how to get the fringe doctors or the quacks and what policies should be introduced in their particular states. So the policies are written as a template. This is what you want to get introduced into law. So they're very politically active. And there is a real intention to get rid of doctors like us who are fringe, and in the old days, we were quacks because we use natural things to treat patients the least toxic thing for first. So that's anti competitive for sure. In a business sense, it's not fair practice. In an our free speech is restricted. So I think there's a lot of illegality going on. And we need discovery and deposition of people to understand where does the money come from? Because that's probably why those sample laws are being distributed to all the Federation of State Medical Board representations. And I think they're probably have a reach into every state medical board.

Dr. Paul  30:35  
Yeah, I think you're right. That brings us to the topic I'm really excited to talk to you about that is this, you've chosen to engage in what I think is probably, I know, you've stated it the most important civil rights fight of our time. And tell us a little more about what's going on. And then also how we can support you and give more information. Thank you,

Dr. Kelly Sutton  30:57  
physicians and patients reclaiming medicine as a new 501 C three, that is a legal defense fund, and a membership organization to collect interested patients, physicians, attorneys, and other providers who are being attacked, or who have seen the importance of this attack. As one of these things, it pulls the rug out from under all kinds of rights. If a doctor and a patient cannot work together freely, for the good of the patient, certainly parents rights are gone, the patient's rights are gone, those physicians rights are gone. And if we don't have bodily autonomy, we are under the state. There is no other control over us. If we don't have it ourselves. I'm glad to see that is happening. And we have had speakers. And we're still very tiny and new as an organization. But getting in contact with other organizations and other individuals who are gaining experience so that we can find one another and work together.

Dr. Paul  32:04  
Now that's super exciting. What COVID taught us what Tova taught us now, you and I were aware that there were problems with the childhood vaccine schedule, right way before most of our peers or the population at large, had any notion that there was any issue with vaccines and then come along this COVID fiasco, and people seem to be waking up. I

Dr. Kelly Sutton  32:27  
heard Steve Kirsch last night. MIT finally allowed him to speak in the university where he's donated money for a building. He was refused until November 30 of 2023. And he spoke about what his mastery of Statistics has shown that there's no question that the COVID vaccine has caused deaths. He says there's no question that autism causes is from vaccines. He said, There is no single instance of any case of autism, two weeks before a vaccine happens. But there's large numbers of cases of autism to within the two weeks after a vaccine. And he says that's enough statistically, and he discussed the Poisson distribution, which I don't know what it is. But I think it's the coming together of people with different skills like Steve Kirsch and Edward Dowd with their mastery of mathematics have really shown us a mathematical fact of what's happened that we know from our environment and the neighbors, and friends and what we read in the media, in spite of suppression. And that has to take a next step, once we've got mathematic approved to go towards things like lawsuits.

Dr. Paul  33:48  
Yeah, it's that same clustering of autism after vaccines that Steve Kirsch was talking about last night. We've seen the same thing with SIDS, sudden infant death syndrome, never being properly attributed to the actual culprit, and that's vaccines. Almost large majority of SIDS happen in the first week after vaccines, not the week before vaccines as high in one data set as 97%. But in all data sets and there's several of them. Yeah, well over 50% are in the first week after vaccines, sometimes three days after a vaccine. Wow.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  34:24  
And as bad as vaccines are. The worst thing is behind that. And that's the principle that's being established that you and I could not take care of a patient and give the patient with the patient needed. That freedom to function as a trained, ethical, responsible professional, does not exist. And so if that's taken away, then we really have big issues in how to conduct a human culture together? Yeah. When

Dr. Paul  35:03  
you were opening with me, you talked about trust, and how important that trust is between the patient and doctor, that relationship. And you and I have had that privilege of having trusting relationships with our patients for decades. And that has been completely eroded when, just for example, the COVID, that's most obvious to people who are watching doctors get paid reimbursed for vaccinating. And there are bonuses and incentives. And then of course, the public has been incentivized by or threatened, you're going to lose your job where you can't go to this event or that event, or you can't travel, or here's a doughnut or a lottery card, just ridiculously unethical practices. In any time prior to this. We would have been brought before a medical board if we coerced a patient to take a medical procedure. Yes,

Dr. Kelly Sutton  35:59  
these are bribes, there should be no detailers from with gifts from pharmaceutical companies to medical students and doctors, there should be no financial incentives for doctors for certain treatments, or lab tests or anything else. Those interfere with medical judgment. There's no way for it not to.

Dr. Paul  36:21  
So I'm curious, you've been at this even longer than I have? What happened? What happened to our profession? Where are our peers, we've got in my field pediatrics, almost all pediatricians will just follow the basic guidelines without questioning without looking at any other data. They just start told this is what you do, and they do it. Where do we go from here? What happened

Dr. Kelly Sutton  36:44  
to different questions, but so important, I think we got lazy and greedy. And when insurance came in, and it paid anything, we were happy to charge high prices, we lost our moral footing. And we didn't charge fair prices. So then there had to be clamps put back on us. And the family practice doctor became the secretary for the system, filling out all the referral authorizations and so that the lab could make money, the X ray department could make money, the referral specialist could make money, but the referral had to come from the primary in that in those days family practice, doctor and we didn't complain. And then I think one thing I've heard Richard emerling say is the workload got so big, that doctors did not any longer want to work alone. So we put ourselves on the employment role of a hospital and became their doctor. And we've had fewer and fewer doctors in private practice. His assessment of what's gone wrong with medicine is very insightful. He said, In the 90s, there was, or maybe it was part of, I don't know if it was Clinton's medical plan, or Obama's probably Obama's, there was a plan to say, medical visits could only be paid through insurance, you could not pay out of pocket. And he said, that's a key point of control. Because if a person is free to pay out of their own pocket, they have freedom to choose a different provider than that easy, covered, cheap provider. But so he said, we have to have things put back so that people are paying and choosing their provider with their finances. And the private practice of medicine has to be restored as one answer to your second question. And it has to be strong. And we have to have fewer physician employees and more physician self employed, because then we have the chance to use our own values. The doctors in Kaiser and setter were not free to write medical exemptions. And they were told that and so there are patients who are deprived of that option on as a mass as a block.

Dr. Paul  39:19  
And that might be how some of them ended up at your doorstep? I think so. Yeah. I had that same experience in pediatrics in general that patients were kicked out of other practices. If they weren't following the CDC schedule. They would show up at my office and we take all comers and monitor informed consent. And so I had this growing population of under or unvaccinated patients, which you would think would be a disaster given the common knowledge or the thought anyway, that vaccines are safe and effective in this wonderful Naisha and cure all. The funny thing was the unvaccinated are the ones who are so healthy. And I got to see that firsthand, which was like whoa, what's going on here? Yeah, That's very insightful of you. So with your efforts with PP RM, how do people get information from that organization? We're joined to support you.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  40:11  
Thank you. The website is reclaiming med dot o RG. If people want to go there, they can see what the Saturday meetings are. Like, we have a forum. And you can sign up for the newsletter for free, you can get notices of when we have a guest speaker. And then as a member, you get access to the recordings of prior guest speakers, and the forum and a section of the website that isn't available to the public. And we love having the experience of doctors who are dealing with medical board issues, because we think in the combined experience and insights, we're going to have a chance to understand how to approach the issues we're dealing with, and also have the talent collected to help write articles to reach out to people through social media. And see if there's ways that there's more awareness, we would like to make everybody more legally literate, because doctors are not legally literate. Parents are not legally literate. The things I've seen happen with parents who had exemptions in California, and are then told me you now have to register this in this thing. And the schools will routinely say you just sign up for it and you'll get put in your exemption there. But putting your exemption in to the system means two things, your tract and your exemption will be denied. I've never heard of a single exemption put into the care system that was accepted. Except for one. And that was a doctor who is still being investigated. And it was a 12 month exemption.

Dr. Paul  42:01  
Effectively medical exemptions are gone, aren't they?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  42:04  
Yes, yes. And they're really one person pointed out they are not medical. They are administrative. So it's a bureaucratic exemption that the parents are getting. And that's so hard to get in California.

Dr. Paul  42:19  
Yeah. I'm often asked if I live in California or New York, or Maine or Philadelphia or West Virginia, I think those are the states Pennsylvania sorry. I think those are the states currently that do not have a philosophical or religious exemption. Oh, and parents will say what can I do? And what would you tell them?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  42:39  
It's I hear occasionally, about this doctor will give exemptions, or this school will work with the parents to get the child educated. But I think those are like, rare as hen's teeth very difficult to find those that can with the answer seems to be to go on with creating the new world to start your own school, which is easier at the preschool level than other times you just share with other parents find a church that welcomes its congregation and work together, you make a private Educational Association, so that it is a contract between parent and student and teacher. That is doesn't include the government. It's not taking government money. It's not licensed. Because it's when we allow the government access through a medical license, a school being licensed, that we then have to comply with. We have they have access to us, and then we have to comply with the laws, whether it's giving vaccines or receiving vaccines. So a person can homeschool or move. Those are the two hard realities. Yeah.

Dr. Paul  44:01  
If you're a parent listening and you are faced with my child is now going to be forced to get less heaven forbid, but they've added the COVID jab to the childhood vaccine schedule starting at six months of age. I just can't even fathom the insanity of that right decision that was made almost unanimously by this committee that supposedly is looking out for our children's health. Clearly our organizations are captured, right? Yes, the very institutions that are supposed to protect us are now right out there harming us left and right yes. So homeschooling has to start becoming a real reality for any thinking caring parent Yeah. Or like you said move.

I'm gonna wrap up and have Didi join you for to function I gotta miss this D always gets to the fun personal stuff. Okay. But as I depart, I want you to have a final say about if the audience could listen or remember one thing.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  44:56  
What do you want them to know? It's you And one thing I forgot, and that is to go to school board meetings. And I'm volunteering now in my grandson's library at his little kindergarten school, public school. So I get to see what are the books like that are there? What are the people like? How much computer use a lot of things. And I go to the school board meetings once a month, and I'm thinking about going to the school to the town council meetings. I think it's that local involvement. That's the other leg. It doesn't educate our children. But it's something maybe for the grandparents who carry while the parents are figuring out whether to homeschool or vaccinate or move, because the parents are carrying the biggest load on their shoulders. I think maybe that's the last thing I should say is that tremendous admiration I have for the parents who are going through this experience. They have born the child love the child obeyed the doctor suffered from all of those virtues, and now deal with a chronically ill child that they are continuing to be devoted to and to raise. And the things I'm going through are nothing compared to that. So it's

Dr. Paul  46:18  
I second, third, fourth and quadruple that. That's why we do what we do. And thank you, Dr. Kelly, satin, you are an angel on this planet on this earth. And thank you for being on the show with me. Here's DD.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  46:30  
Thank you very much, Paul. Hey, everyone,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  46:33  
it's me DD and I am here with Dr. Sutton V. Dr. Sutton, you just saw a wonderful interview with her and Dr. Pol. And I was cleaning to every word and everything you said. And when you were talking about exemptions and different things, I have found myself starting to tear up because as a mom, I did some exemptions, not exemptions. But I did refuse some vaccines for my son when he was younger, because he was sick. I did the initial one. So my heart as a mom is so appreciative of you and but very sad that you have to go through what you are going through and what you did, because you were doing what's best for children. That hurts my heart as a mom. But thank you for everything that you do. So my first question is, are you just mentioned your grandchildren? So talk to me about how many kids you have? How many grandkids you have? I see that brings a smile to your face your

Dr. Kelly Sutton  47:32  
 it's a real connection point, whether it's a doctor and patient or meeting someone is how do you have children because it changes your life once you have that experience? So I have two wonderful sons, who are around 40 years old now. And one of them has two children. And I get to babysit them twice a week and I'm delighted. Oh, yeah. I love that. Yeah. And how old are they? five and three? Okay,

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  48:02  
so is it the five year old that's in school that you were talking about going to the library? Yes. And for your children for 40 years ago? Did you vaccinate your kids?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  48:13  
I did. Okay, I learned conventional medicine first. Okay. And so I did what I learned. But then, in my practice, my patients started teaching me and some of them had problems, a man with dramatic myositis. I have to thank for his story and his asking for help. And I searched for a research program to put him in. That was conventional medication. Couldn't find one. So I asked a friend who said she had helped her rheumatic fever, with nutrition. And then she wrote out the nutritional program because I couldn't at that point, and he got better. He still looked like he had dermatomyositis. But he was functioning. He was swallowing he was doing his gardening and he was no longer depressed. So I knew the power of other types of healing from what my patients told me. And that was just the beginning of opening everything.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  49:19  
How many years would you say you were in practice when that happened? And maybe turned around how you felt?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  49:24  
That happened? Pretty quick. Tucker, I started practice in New Mexico in 1970. And that's about the time that the American Holistic Medical Association was founded with Norm Shealy and Gladys McGarry. Okay, I knew them way back then. The early days of Jeffrey bland. There was a lot of famous figures in just beginning things at that point. And then I met anthroposophic medicine, the work of Rudolf Steiner, which kind of brought everything together. It has a big picture cosmology behind it Just like are you Vedic and Chinese medicine? Do ya? What's it the context of the human being the local, the family, the community, the cosmos. In that framework, I could put everything I was learning from patients, whether it was nutrition, detox with colonics, homeopathy, homeopathic remedies, herbal remedies. Some people had experienced faith healing, healing with radionics. All of those could be grasped and formed into useful tools. Through the work of anthroposophic. Medicine. I didn't use all of them. But I think that the whole difference was being able to say, what is the human being? And have an answer that you could count on? This is deep, this is real. Because that question wasn't really answered explicitly. In medical school, it was more implied that the eye is a camera, the brain is a computer, the heart is a pump. So we're just a big inch machine. We're a big Incredible Machine, we're broken, we fix it. But with anthroposophic medicine, there was a picture of the person having a spiritual nature, which was eternal and unique. And soul or emotional makeup, a body of life forces, which was called the etheric body, and then a physical body. So with that complexity, there was many angles of understanding the sickness of the person, and of helping to treat. So it's just been a very rich learning experience for all these years.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  51:36  
That's awesome in that you can embrace that because a lot of medical doctors, like after I've helped I do body work, and through the past 30 something years, sometimes some of my patients back pains or different things would get better. And they'd go to the doctor, and they're like, oh, it's that's nice. Go ahead, but you should probably still have surgery. And it's, it just always surprised me that it was just put off, and that's changed in itself. So you just said Gladys McGarry? Yes. Name. I had an opportunity at a massage conference. Actually, she did a speech and I got to talk to her. And she's amazing. Do you feel like that's did you learn much from her? Because he just mentioned her name. But did you ever have an opportunity to because she went through the same thing with her past, and how she chose to step right into doing things more holistically.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  52:25  
I knew her so long ago and have not kept touch that I probably had more discussions about her work in the 1970s than since then. But I know she did amazing things with the Association for Research and enlightenment, the ARV healing centers in Arizona. Yeah. And I imagine there would be parallels if I spoke with her. Yeah, I've

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  52:51  
been trying to get her on the show. Talking to her she is she's amazing. And that's what I see in you, though, is that you're not afraid to fight. And I think in some of the email conversation, you said that if push comes to shove, it's more important to you to have an effect on helping families and kids and people receive the best medical care and health care. And I think that's something that you'd said that I've noticed is sometimes we think of it as just medicine versus a well, wellness, health and wellness. When you think of health wellness, I don't think we always think of medical doctors. But I see that in you. And I think that's why they're coming after you is because that's not allowed. Yes. So did your kids ever have any issues with vaccines?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  53:36  
I'm sure there's levels of injury in them and myself. I don't think there's any contribution to achieving full human potential that vaccines provide for I think they are a burden on our system and probably diminish by bits, our IQ or coordination or relatability, some of those finer functions, but because we're such an amazing, we've been given this human design, we have a lot of reserve and over eons, humans have been through a lot. And now we're going through this. I think we're going to survive and be stronger because of this. It's mostly my patients because I was practicing still when DPT was a vaccine. And there were a number of people in disabled homes because of the DPT vaccine from an early age. Oh, wow. Yeah, I

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  54:31  
didn't even think of that. That's, and that's the thing, something like that. When you see that even back then and now seeing what we see with the COVID shot. To me, it's so clear that wow, this is harmful. We should stop but are you did you were your grandkids vaccinated? Yes.

Dr. Kelly Sutton  54:48  
And my daughter in law is a NICU nurse and she believes in vaccines, but she did spread them out. She didn't give the whole aid of one visit. I I think I want to mention one other thing from my early training. That besides seeing what happened with DPT, I also saw the sense of hesitation about too many vaccines that was truly the prevailing medical opinion in the early 70s, because I did a CME course that was on hepatitis and the gastroenterologist preventing presenting it said, there is coming investigation on a hepatitis B vaccine, but we won't need that for everybody. We'll just need it for those who have active Hepatitis B to prevent it from becoming cancer, and possibly people who are of Asian descent because they're more prone to that. And now we give it to babies in the first 24 hours. The shift the medical thinking that's happened.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  55:51  
And even to infants, I just read an article on a set of twins that was born three weeks early in the shot was given to them. And now they're saying, June well, so I just I think, all of that's nonsense. So I have I think I know the answer to this. But if you could go back and do it differently, would you if you knew what you knew now that they were going to take your license or challenge you this much, would you have written those exemptions?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  56:17  
I would write them, I would probably be more aware of telling parents what they needed to do. Because I think in a sense, doctors writing exemptions made the parents think the problem was solved. We took the parents load on but that was a false answer. Because it was so temporary. It was undone in the next several years. And that little bit of tide helps because kids get more maturity, and there have more solid neurodevelopment to withstand other assaults. But still, I would have told parents, you need to do this, you need to do that. And I think all of us as a culture need to be involved in the government, whether most importantly, we do it locally, school board, and so forth. And we need to be legally literate. I knew nothing about law. And so I was just Paddy, in the hands of medical board attorneys. And sadly, the ones in California were not very strong defenders of doctors, they just felt we have to do what the medical board wants. And so that's what happened. And I know of no doctor in California, who was not disciplined. If they were in the situation I was in everybody's case it was last universally. So we need to have stronger self defense and legal defense.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  57:56  
I agree very much so on that. So we have I don't know. But Dr. Paul and I have we co founded a program called Kids First the number four ever, and it's physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of our life. So if everything that's happened to you, what kind of effect would you say has happened to each of those areas with you? Do you feel like you have been affected negatively based on everything going on?

Dr. Kelly Sutton  58:22  
I know I've got wear and tear on my on all the parts except the spiritual probably yay, because it's just a lot to endure. And there's the stress of carrying the load of work to deal with the onslaught of tasks required. And then now the tasks are how do I pass on what I know. So it's not lost? So it's a very joyful, constructive building effort, but it's still I'm not gonna live forever, I better do this. Right. And then I think a lot of rebuilding can happen when there's some space and rest, but that time is not now.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  59:09  
And I appreciate that you said that because that's the thing is, and it's just like with Dr. Paul, when he was going through this, it was affecting his health, his physical health, and mentally and emotionally and luckily, same thing, that beautiful, soulful, spiritual side of him, which I see in you, is still strong, and they can't take that they can do all the other things, they can take licenses, they can do all that but they can never take who you are. So thank you for that and how much work you put into it. So I know I'm running out of time. So okay, what, what's most important and can you say to other grandparents out there because you're in a situation where if it was your baby, you probably wouldn't vaccinate knowing what but there's this fine walk we have to do a fine dance we have to do with our children on that issue. What would you say to other grandparents

Dr. Kelly Sutton  59:57  
about vaccinating or God?

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  59:59  
Yeah, about being having your children vaccinate your grandchildren, or how to how can grandparents get involved? Because you mentioned you're going to the school board meetings, you're going to school? Yeah, I think a lot of grandparents don't feel like that's maybe their place. And same thing a lot of grandparents don't feel like they can say anything to their kids about what they know about vaccination. Now, how did you do that dance? I

Dr. Kelly Sutton  1:00:25  
think we have to let our parents let our children be the parents of the grandchildren. We are not the grandchildren's parents, no question about that. So there's going to be things we see whether it's toilet training, how you brush your teeth, diet, vaccines, bedtimes that they're going to do differently than what I did, or what I learned from not doing it right the first place. So I would just play with the family and enjoy them. And then stop waiting for permission to go to school board meetings and town council meetings and volunteer in the school environment. Just go and look at a group like moms for liberty, who are very aware of issues that happen in school boards, and find your voice because you can do something your children cannot do because they're way too busy. With prayer as grandparents, we have to use our time in a constructive way. This is not a time to retire.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:01:23  
Thank you so much for saying that. And,man, I

agree with that. If that's the one thing that anybody takes from this is an especially I think sometimes parents are put in a different situation. If they speak up too much or say anything, then sometimes how their children are treated like a school. Yes, my son was treated negatively based on me speaking up. So as a grandparent, it's like a parent can go hey, that's her opinion now coughing. So thank you. Thank you so much Dr. Sutton for agreeing to interview with us. And please know if you ever need any support that you can reach out to us. Thank

Dr. Kelly Sutton  1:01:59  
you Didi for asking beautiful questions and for the encouragement because that lets the healing begin after everybody going through things. So thank you for that. Oh, you're welcome.

DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT  1:02:12  
Thank you. Hey, everybody, it's me DD and I'm coming to you from my soul. Today and my interview with Dr. Satin. It really made my soul shine, because she had mentioned her in her early career in education and training. She had the opportunity to meet Gladys McGarry. She wrote the well lived life. She's 102 years old. Actually, I think she's 103 now and she is still practicing medicine. She they call her the mother of holistic medicine. And boy, are they true? That is so true. But what lit up my soul was what Gladys McGarry has passed on to everybody. She lives a life of love. If you read her book or you have a chance to listen to her, it will light up your soul. It did the same thing for Dr. Sutton and Dr. Sutton lit up my soul today because she's she's not letting everything that's happening to her. slow her down. She is pushing through. She's making a difference. And when I asked her, you would you go back and do things differently? Yes, you know, you might think about things differently. But no, she would always put Kate patient care first. And that's what doctors are supposed to do. That's what medicine is supposed to do. And that's what our soul is supposed to do. We're supposed to put our health, our energy who we are our life, our love first. So thanks for listening, and have a great day.

Dr. Paul  1:03:55  
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai