- Published on
Show 200 Transcription
- Author
-
-
- Name
- Posts
- Posts
-
PDF:
Loading PDF...
TEXT:
With the Wind with Dr. Paul — Show 200 — Pediatric Perspectives: Focusing on Chronic Disease with Liz Mumper, M.D.
Speaker Times
Transcript
00:00:40:34 - 00:01:05:39
Dr. Paul Thomas
VAX facts this book hits bookstores December 10th. You can get a copy now by going to VAX Facts book.com, where you can get a signed author's copy, where you can order an e-book, or you can also preorder the book if you are seeing this message before December 10th. You can also order this book at any bookseller, any bookstore, wherever books are sold, and preorder your copy.
00:01:05:53 - 00:01:17:28
Dr. Paul Thomas
Get this book for your loved ones, for your family, for yourself, and let's get healthy.
00:01:17:33 - 00:01:26:48
Unknown
Do. You.
00:01:26:53 - 00:01:35:05
Unknown
Know.
00:01:35:10 - 00:01:50:44
Dr. Paul Thomas
Good morning, PhD, and welcome to Pediatric Perspectives from wherever you're viewing in the world. We are looking at children's health challenges from a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking on this. Not afraid to give you the honest truth. Back on the show today, Doctor Liz Mumford.
00:01:50:48 - 00:01:52:47
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Thank you Paul, good to be here.
00:01:52:52 - 00:02:11:45
Dr. Paul Thomas
Doctor Mumford, if you missed her last show, has been a pediatrician for 45 years. She's my mentor. She is still training doctors around the world through the organization called Maps Medical Academy and Pediatric Special Needs. She is the author of a new book, Kids in Covid, which we talked in-depth at the last show. So go back and look at that.
00:02:11:49 - 00:02:31:27
Dr. Paul Thomas
We're going to focus today on chronic conditions in childhood because I know, Liz, this is a lot of what you've dedicated your career to treating and helping. It's the most difficult thing to do in pediatrics, but I thought it would be fun and interesting to start. You know, you started pediatrics even before I did. You go back 45 years ago.
00:02:31:32 - 00:02:43:51
Dr. Paul Thomas
It seemed like we were very focused on infectious diseases back then. And I just wondered if you might share briefly what you've seen in your career and sort of what the change has been.
00:02:43:55 - 00:03:07:22
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. So I was a resident, from 1980 to 1983, and then I spent a year as chief resident at the University of Virginia. And I remember very clearly the faculty there having discussions about how in pediatrics, it was so fun because you could treat an acute illness, something like a pneumonia or an ear infection, and the kids would get better.
00:03:07:27 - 00:03:40:24
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And so it tended to attract people who enjoyed playing with the kids and seeing this kind of, rapid turnaround and seeing how well the kids did and the contrast was made to internal medicine, where there were a lot more chronic illnesses, things like heart disease or chronic lung disease or cancer. Now, sadly, what you and I have seen fall is that in the last three decades, all kinds of childhood chronic illness has increased dramatically.
00:03:40:28 - 00:04:08:36
Liz Mumper, M.D.
The one that I think consumed with is the exponential increase in autism. When I was a medical student, we were told that we probably wouldn't see another case of autism. There was a child that had autism at the Medical College of Virginia, which is now Virginia Commonwealth University, and we should all go and see that child. At that time, the prevalence of autism was about 1 in 5000 children.
00:04:08:40 - 00:04:36:31
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And now with the latest numbers that have come out, the prevalence is about 1 in 31 children. And since there's a male predominance, for example, in California, where we have really good statistics, it's 1 in 12 point five boys. So people argue about, well, maybe we're just doing a really good job of identifying these people. And the diagnostic criteria have changed.
00:04:36:36 - 00:05:21:36
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But you and I know that there are many more neurologically, ill children today than when we were training. And so I think that at least 79% of the increase is really due to more cases. That's what the best studies that we have suggest. Other things that we've seen increased dramatically is type one diabetes. Now in children, most of their diabetes used to be type one, meaning that it was an autoimmune reaction where, the patient developed antibodies to these specialized cells in their pancreas that interfered with their ability to make insulin type two diabetes.
00:05:21:36 - 00:06:01:27
Liz Mumper, M.D.
What we as what you see would happen to people in their 50s and 60s and 70s where over time they became insulin resistant and their cells didn't respond to insulin. But sadly, we're now seeing seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12 year olds who have type two diabetes, which used to be called adult onset diabetes. So I really worry that the amount of sugar that our children are exposed to, the number of processed foods that they eat, and the relative lack of, the kind of whole natural foods that people grew up on in the 50s and 60s.
00:06:01:32 - 00:06:31:02
Liz Mumper, M.D.
That change in diet is really impacting, their prevalence of not just diabetes, but obesity, which is another thing that's really increased a lot in my state of Virginia, about 30% of kids are either overweight or obese. And that is, something that's going to predispose them to a lifetime of more inflammation and more chronic illness. We've also seen increases in things like eczema and allergies and asthma.
00:06:31:07 - 00:06:56:32
Liz Mumper, M.D.
This happens when your immune system gets a little bit out of kilter. And instead of being in balance where you fight infections well and you don't have autoimmunity or asthma, you tend to have a shift to the two type of immunity where, you do have more autoimmunity and asthma. And so these are all trends that we've seen.
00:06:56:37 - 00:07:26:31
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I worry about the increasing exposures to endocrine disrupting chemicals, to plastics, to glass estate. You know, we can't tell by just doing a physical exam on a child how well their liver enzymes work or how well their detoxification systems work to protect him. Them from all these new chemicals and, pollution exposures. So our kids have got a tough time these days.
00:07:26:31 - 00:07:49:33
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And, probably well over 50% based on the best studies that we have of our children nowadays have at least one chronic condition, chronic, meaning that it's not something you can get over in a few days like you would if you had a cold or another virus. So that's the sad landscape. And I'm sure you have seen it too.
00:07:49:37 - 00:08:15:33
Dr. Paul Thomas
Absolutely. So if you're watching you, if you have children or you have friends who have children, you've probably seen or heard of kids who are struggling with autism or ADHD or anxiety or depression, all those neurological things, developmental delays, the learning disabilities, etc.. And then we're seeing this whole host of allergy and autoimmune conditions. There's, as you mentioned, Liz, the asthma, the asthma and and so forth.
00:08:15:42 - 00:08:48:11
Dr. Paul Thomas
It's really epidemic. And you've touched on some of the reasons toxins, toxins, toxins and lack of proper nutrients and sort of wholesome living. I, I'm just really curious, just to get right down to the nitty gritty, if I'm thinking about having a family, I have several lots of children, and, they've started having kids. Now, I know you have grandkids as well, but if someone's thinking about having a starting a family, I've heard that generations say they're afraid to have kids.
00:08:48:13 - 00:09:20:35
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah, the millennials are afraid to have kids. And, you know, part of it is that they're worried about bringing a child into a world that seems as screwed up as ours sometimes does, both from a pollution standpoint and sometimes politically. For socio economic and political reasons. Right. But I do think that if you're if you're thinking of having a child, you really need to work at least six months to a year Pre-Conception to really try to clean up your own diet, eat as organic is possible.
00:09:20:35 - 00:09:51:53
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Try to make sure that you're not getting your yard sprayed with pesticides and, not getting your hands sprayed for bugs. Looking at your cleaning products, we all are potentially at a tipping point where our evolution into using all these extra products that we never saw before, is outpacing the evolution of our body's ability to adjust and change and detoxify them.
00:09:51:58 - 00:10:20:07
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So, start six months early at least. We would want the mothers to be taking good omega three supplementation, make sure their vitamin D levels are in an optimum range that would be more than 50 nanograms per deciliter, not just the more than 30. That is the, cutoff for normal in most labs, because you want it to be optimal, not just barely enough to keep you from getting rickets.
00:10:20:12 - 00:10:49:31
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And we would want them to have, good B vitamins and the right kind of B vitamins. We advocate using not synthetic folic acid, but using a methylated form of splenic acid, because that's very important for a lot of the biochemistry that helps protect the child from not just spinal tube defects, but other problems with their, biochemistry.
00:10:49:36 - 00:11:23:08
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So start early and then, you have a lot of decisions to make about, how you're going to birth your child, whether you want to use traditional, obstetric care or whether you want to try to do a more natural birth, with a midwife or potentially even at home, and then pull one of your passions. And, I have supported you completely in your investigation of the role of vaccine decision making.
00:11:23:21 - 00:11:25:09
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Should we talk about that a little bit?
00:11:25:18 - 00:11:46:22
Dr. Paul Thomas
Oh, I can't help but talk about it. I'm no longer licensed, so I'm not giving medical advice, but I'm also free to tell you the honest truth, which is part of why I love this Pediatric Perspectives platform. I would add to what you were saying was with pregnancy, doing vaccines in pregnancy is is a grand experiment. None of them were tested in pregnancy.
00:11:46:27 - 00:12:03:52
Dr. Paul Thomas
And in fact, I've looked over some of the data used where the accidentally someone was pregnant, they didn't know it, and they got a vaccine. And it's not good. I can say with confidence it is not a good idea to vaccinate when pregnant. It is absolute insanity to give a newborn a hepatitis B vaccine when mom doesn't have hep.
00:12:03:52 - 00:12:04:12
Dr. Paul Thomas
Be.
00:12:04:18 - 00:12:28:25
Liz Mumper, M.D.
One of the things that has always worried me is that we know that this thing called maternal immune activation is a risk factor for autism and other neurodevelopmental problems. So when you're pregnant, you naturally want to be in a little bit of an immune tolerance state. Because if your body recognizes your fetus as foreign, it will try to attack it or get rid of it.
00:12:28:25 - 00:12:53:30
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So your your immune system is has this exquisite dance. It does where it tolerates this new body that you're making from scratch. And it's taking a lot of your calcium and zinc and other nutrients to do so when you give vaccines. I'm very concerned that that tends to, have the potential to hyper sensitize or over activate the mother's immune system.
00:12:53:35 - 00:13:25:16
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And that, I think, is more of a risk in this day and time than the diseases that the vaccines purport to help. And one of the most common vaccines it's given in pregnancy is the flu vaccine, which honestly never really has that good of a track record in terms of actually preventing the flu. And we know that when we give children flu vaccines, they're actually more likely to get other types of respiratory infections, as a result of having had that shot.
00:13:25:21 - 00:13:50:23
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So I also am very concerned about vaccines in pregnancy. Now, you and I both, as we have aged and watched this generation of children, the more we know about vaccines, the less confidence we have in them. And we know that, typically they're not tested against a true placebo. A placebo should be something that's inert, like an injection of salt water.
00:13:50:28 - 00:14:31:28
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But typically vaccines are tested against other vaccines. So you're already building in whatever side effects could happen from those other vaccines. We've also never really tested vaccines in combination with one another. So, one of the things that has grown out of your work, Paul, is the evidence about if a child receives four or 5 or 6 vaccines at one time, the aluminum load not only is a high acute meaning, right away a high level of aluminum, but it also causes chronic elevated levels of aluminum and aluminum, like mercury.
00:14:31:28 - 00:14:54:27
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Both are known neurotoxins. And so at a time that the child is building their brain, that very important time in the first year of life, I am very hesitant to give such a big aluminum load. And that's why you and I both looked at doing modified immune schedules back actually, like 20 years ago. Now it seems like it was just yesterday.
00:14:54:27 - 00:15:07:33
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But, you've been telling me that you feel like now that your vaccine friendly schedule and my modified vaccine schedule aren't friendly or modified enough, right? And I.
00:15:07:37 - 00:15:20:30
Dr. Paul Thomas
I agree completely. You published a paper that really got my attention way back. Was it 2015 or something like that where you had no autism in your unvaccinated population?
00:15:20:30 - 00:15:26:15
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah, I think that was more like, 2011 or 12 or 13 somewhere in there. Yeah.
00:15:26:19 - 00:15:31:34
Dr. Paul Thomas
Oh, that's right, because it was 2015, I tried to publish the same design study with.
00:15:31:39 - 00:15:31:43
Liz Mumper, M.D.
A.
00:15:31:43 - 00:15:36:01
Dr. Paul Thomas
Larger subset, and the journal wouldn't accept it, wouldn't even look at it.
00:15:36:06 - 00:16:13:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But you had like 1 in 795 or something. Kids with autism. So your numbers were even better than mine. And, your papers and my research has led us to the conclusion that looking at vaccine schedules are more heavily vaccinated, kids are more likely to have a whole host of about 13 different medical chronic conditions. And so I do think that in the new administration and I think that, Secretary of Health and Human Services is very interested in doing this.
00:16:13:34 - 00:16:41:35
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I do think we need to look very carefully at that data and not accept the mantra that, you know, vaccines are clear. They aren't associated with chronic illness. They aren't associated with autism. That has been, a bit of propaganda, frankly, because when you really look carefully at the evidence that led those people to make those statements, there are a lot of holes in the evidence.
00:16:41:35 - 00:16:46:09
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And if we could go into it in detail, we could sort of deconstruct those arguments.
00:16:46:14 - 00:16:46:59
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, that that's.
00:16:47:06 - 00:16:49:29
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Beyond what I think we're going to do today.
00:16:49:34 - 00:17:18:12
Dr. Paul Thomas
I think you're right. But I mean, you as a, you know, autism expert, trained other doctors on how to manage this. You ran your own Remin center where this is the population you were primarily working with. You undoubtedly saw, as I did, hundreds of families where they would have one child with autism. They would then and they saw many of these families saw that happen right after vaccines or shortly thereafter.
00:17:18:16 - 00:17:34:56
Dr. Paul Thomas
And when they had a subsequent child, they didn't want to vaccinate. Right. It's like, no, I'm not going to do that to another child. And what did you see in terms of the health of siblings who were unvaccinated? If they had a older sibling who had a vaccine injury, such as autism or whatever?
00:17:35:01 - 00:18:06:44
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I can't think of an example where the unvaccinated child was not the healthier sibling. They typically did not develop these chronic illnesses that we're talking about in terms of eczema and asthma and autism. So it it is very profound. I will tell you, I looked through all my charts, to look at the patient histories, because you and I were both taught that taking a very excellent, comprehensive history is the best way to figure out what's going on with the patient.
00:18:06:49 - 00:18:47:12
Liz Mumper, M.D.
In 23% of my patients reported that, it seemed like their child deteriorated after the MMR vaccine. And then I had about another 25% of my patients who thought that it was a whole bunch of vaccines given at once, at a time when the child was already ill. So back in the 90s, in 2000, the Academy of Pediatrics was advocating that if you saw a child for an ear infection or RSV or, an asthma attack, whatever the case might be, if they were overdue for vaccines, you should take that opportunity to give them a vaccine.
00:18:47:12 - 00:19:21:29
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I never thought that there was scientific justification for that, because your immune system is otherwise preoccupied when you are in the midst of an acute illness. But nonetheless, there was this grab them and stab them campaign. And I think that, especially if multiple vaccines were given when a child had an acute ear infection and was being prescribed antibiotics, or if they were in the midst of some type of respiratory distress, I think that's something that needs to be looked at very carefully, because parents are excellent observers of their children.
00:19:21:29 - 00:19:45:06
Liz Mumper, M.D.
They know what their typical feeding patterns are like. They know how well they sleep or not, and they should be believed when they say something has changed and we shouldn't write it off is just a coincidence that the symptoms started the day of the day after, or two days after a bunch of vaccines were given. We need to take the parents seriously.
00:19:45:11 - 00:20:10:25
Dr. Paul Thomas
Absolutely. I remember that push to just catch kids up if they're behind or any missed opportunity is a tragedy. You've got to, the pressure to vaccinate was just so huge. I think it probably continues. I've met several families whose babies, infants died right after a vaccine because it was done against their wishes, really, when their child was sick.
00:20:10:25 - 00:20:21:18
Dr. Paul Thomas
So sudden infant death, infants dying, is very temporally related to when vaccines are given. I've got a chapter on that in my book, VAX Facts.
00:20:21:25 - 00:20:45:28
Liz Mumper, M.D.
You know, it's so interesting the way our perspectives color what we see and analyze because for so many years, sudden infant death, you would hear the story that the child had gone to the doctor the day before and that the check up was fine and that the baby seemed really healthy. And then they died of the next day or two days after.
00:20:45:33 - 00:21:08:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And it was sort of presented as this type of puzzle. Oh, how could the child be perfectly healthy? And then some unknown factor intervened and took the child's life. Isn't it interesting that we didn't do what we would typically do and say, wow, well, let's see, the child was well one day, got sick the next day. What was different?
00:21:08:39 - 00:21:37:54
Liz Mumper, M.D.
You know, was exposed to someone who was sick or, you know, did he have an accident or, you know, we would ask all these questions if a child came in with a broken leg or a new illness, but with SIDs, it seems like one of the good questions would be, did the doctor do anything that potentially could have contributed to the child's death and the the temporal significance of the way SIDs clusters so quickly after vaccines?
00:21:37:54 - 00:22:11:37
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And Neil Milner has done a lot of work on this is highly suggestive. And then we also have, plausible modes of action by which vaccines can, interfere with mitochondrial function and cause oxidative stress to the infant. So I think that there's going to be, rethinking of the etiology, the reason behind SIDs, if we look carefully at the data, and I hope that happens in the new administration also.
00:22:11:42 - 00:22:28:45
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, I would think that would be a really easy one if they have access to medical records. You look at all the infant deaths and you look at what happened in the week prior to that death, as far as any medical procedures goes or, you know, doctor's visits. So you can kind of get an idea of what was going on.
00:22:28:50 - 00:22:52:52
Dr. Paul Thomas
There are about 20,000 infant deaths in the US every year. And I'm just thinking back, you and I have a history of decades of being in pediatrics. Back when we were younger pediatricians, there were a lot of deaths from infectious diseases. I mean, you and I treated meningitis and sepsis. How many kids would you guess? And I didn't warn you about this question.
00:22:52:52 - 00:23:11:37
Dr. Paul Thomas
So you may not have a guess, but I get the feeling like there's not that many kids who are dying from the diseases for which we have vaccines. Where? What's your feeling on that? I mean, measles, pertussis, tetanus, diptheria, polio, you name them. All right. The actual numbers of deaths are quite low.
00:23:11:42 - 00:23:36:18
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. I think you looked at that in your book very carefully, because you looked at the risk of death from the illness itself versus the concerns about the shots. I have been only had one child in my practice who died with SIDs, and I do think it was a baby that died within several days of vaccines. I have not had a measles death.
00:23:36:18 - 00:24:18:13
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I have not had a pertussis death. I, have not had a tetanus death. So one of the arguments is that we're not seeing all those things now because the vaccines are so effective. But I think we also need to look really critically at that. Unfortunately, just to take measles as an example, one of the things that happened with measles is that once we started immunizing infants, at either a year or 15 months, 18 months, various ages over time, and then again at kindergarten, because some kids weren't immune from the first exposure.
00:24:18:18 - 00:24:40:04
Liz Mumper, M.D.
What happened is that we took measles out of circulating in the population where not only did other kids get measles, typically do well with it and then have lifelong immunity, but our young mothers started not being immune to measles by the time they were old enough to have babies, and then they would have to get boosted either before or after pregnancy.
00:24:40:09 - 00:25:07:52
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I wouldn't give ever a lot of vaccine in pregnancy, which measles vaccine is, but, you in some ways you kind of get stuck. With, that history of altering the natural course of what would have happened historically without the interventions of the vaccine. So it's it's a bit complex when you try to figure out where to go from.
00:25:07:52 - 00:25:11:27
Dr. Paul Thomas
Here, you would have to throw that wrench into the works.
00:25:11:31 - 00:25:12:43
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yes, I would.
00:25:12:48 - 00:25:36:30
Dr. Paul Thomas
The removal of you, no matter when any child dies. And my heart goes out to any parent who's lost a baby, or a child you always used to hear any death prevented by a vaccine is worth preventing it. You've got to counter that with the other side. Any death caused by a vaccine is worth preventing. And that's where you and I really focused on informed consent.
00:25:36:34 - 00:25:55:31
Dr. Paul Thomas
The risk of death from the vaccine is now greater than the risk of death from the disease for which you're vaccinating, and that's true for every single disease on the childhood schedule. So that's just looking at death. And you and I, we started off this particular conversation on all the chronic conditions, many of which are triggered by vaccines.
00:25:55:36 - 00:26:30:45
Liz Mumper, M.D.
That's true. And, we have several independent, practice based surveys and clinical research that is replicating, one another's findings and finding the same thing. Yeah. And, Paul, this might be a good time to mention to the audience that if they've heard about the two beautiful little girls, one was six years old and one was eight years old who died allegedly from measles, that, upon exquisite examination of their medical records, they actually did not die from measles.
00:26:30:45 - 00:26:57:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
They had, other treatable bacterial conditions that were not, recognized early and treated enough. So I don't want people to assume that what the mass media said was true and that they should be counted as a measles death. I very much don't think that that was the case, I agreed.
00:26:57:43 - 00:27:17:59
Dr. Paul Thomas
I listened to those reports, done by, Ben Edwards, the pediatrician on the ground there, or family practice doc on the ground, and also Suzanne Humphreys and Peter Corey did detailed analysis of the medical records. Those kids didn't die of measles, which means we still have not had a child die of measles in the United States for the last 2 or 3 decades, 20, 30 years.
00:27:18:04 - 00:27:39:58
Dr. Paul Thomas
Measles is not as deadly as it was back in the 1800s. It was largely gone, not completely, but largely gone by the time that vaccine was introduced. You covered in our last episode the key things that parents should do. The toxins in our world are everywhere, and it does matter. What can parents do to minimize that?
00:27:40:03 - 00:28:02:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. So one thing is, if you're thinking about, buying a new house, try to find one that, you know, doesn't have led, houses that were built before 1957 often use lead based paint. And even if they've been painted over, there may be, chips in the soil that an infant would play, and that could be dangerous.
00:28:02:39 - 00:28:34:02
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Try not to get a house that's been flooded or that is going to have mold damage, because we're finding that mold in children often start starts a chronic inflammatory response syndrome that can be very difficult to identify and treat. I mentioned avoiding pesticides both on your yard and inside your house. Try to use natural cleaning products rather than ones that have 15 ingredients that are largely chemicals.
00:28:34:07 - 00:28:59:17
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Feed your child nutritious whole foods. Really try to stay away from fast food, and ultra processed foods. We know that one fast food meal is going to elevate inflammatory cytokines. These are messages that tell your child's body to be inflamed, to be hot and red and swollen, and that last for hours after a fast food meal.
00:28:59:17 - 00:29:22:54
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So especially if you have a child with any kind of chronic illness like asthma, eczema, you want to be careful about avoiding fast food. There are some kids with eczema, for example, which is an allergic skin condition that are going to do better if they don't drink, dairy products or they don't have wheat, which has gluten in it.
00:29:22:59 - 00:29:54:22
Liz Mumper, M.D.
There are real concerns about the glyphosate that is now in many of our agricultural products, especially corn and wheat. So you might want to avoid the other things that I think are important to avoid are too many vaccines too soon or for not the appropriate indication, please resist the pressure to do the Covid vaccine. After doing such a deep dive on that, I've researched and wrote that book over a period of three years.
00:29:54:27 - 00:29:59:04
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I just am convinced that it's more harm than good for any pediatric patient.
00:29:59:17 - 00:30:07:02
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, I wonder what you think about acetaminophen Tylenol products.
00:30:07:07 - 00:30:35:03
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. So acetaminophen has an unfortunate characteristic of depleting something called glutathione. I am by about 30% now. You probably never heard of glorifying it. But what is major intracellular antioxidant meaning that it helps fight something called oxidative stress, which children are going to be under if they're sick or if they're in a car accident. It really helps the lining of your gut.
00:30:35:08 - 00:31:02:45
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Your gut is your seat of your immune system. And if the gut lining is interrupted, you're more likely to have food allergies and to not recover from acute illness. Glutathione is also very important for mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of the cell. The sort of basis for your cellular biochemistry. It helps balance your immune system, and it is the gateway to detoxification.
00:31:02:49 - 00:31:34:54
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So it's kind of a paradox that we would give something when kids are sick that would impair so many important functions. And in general, my favorite treatment honestly for fevers is to sponge the kit off with a cool wash rag or to put them in a tepid bath. That's nature's way of cooling you off. You don't necessarily have to have a prescription medicine, but furthermore, for me, fever is your friend, not the enemy.
00:31:34:59 - 00:31:58:00
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Fever's telling you there's something going on with your child, and you need to try to figure out what's causing it. But low grade fever, you know, fever is up to like, 102 and a half. I don't think even really need to be treated at all, because we know that that's part of the immune response, and that's the way of responding to whatever virus or bacteria the child is having.
00:31:58:05 - 00:32:26:09
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So don't feel like you have to treat every low grade fever and, use a set of medicine with caution. I also worry that too much ibuprofen, which should be mode training or Advil because that can be hard on the stomach lining if your child takes too much. So just be aware that some of these things that are taken as accepted practice, aren't necessarily the things that you want to do.
00:32:26:13 - 00:32:57:13
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And I definitely, if you do choose to use some vaccines for your children, don't pre-treat with Tylenol. Doctors have told people to do that for a long time. So at the very time we're giving an injection that has adjuvants in it, meaning other ingredients besides the active ingredient, things that are put in either to preserve the vial or to provoke an immune response, you know, that's not the time that you want to be cutting down the glutathione production by 30%.
00:32:57:13 - 00:33:03:06
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So don't pre-treat or over treat with acetaminophen around vaccinations.
00:33:03:11 - 00:33:25:40
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, I'm just going to come out stronger and say, get rid of it. Get it out of your house. No Tylenol products, no acetaminophen. And, it would be a rare, rare, rare moment that you would possibly want to use it. So, there you have it on that. So you can have a healthy child today. You if you are of the childbearing age and you want to have kids, we've given you a whole lot of food for thought.
00:33:25:45 - 00:33:36:17
Dr. Paul Thomas
And, Liz, thank you so much for all this information. I'm going to let you have the last word, whatever you want to share. And, I'll be glad to hear that.
00:33:36:22 - 00:34:00:12
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. I just want to give a shout out to parents to trust your instincts. Maternal and paternal instincts have been honed over many generations, and, it's a new thing to feel like you have to look up on the web every time you notice something about your child, and defer to the experts that are writing on the internet.
00:34:00:16 - 00:34:29:36
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Follow your instincts. You know more than you think you do on an instinctual basis, and you also know your child better than anyone else. So if you feel like your child is different or not acting normally, any clinician that you take your child to should start out by taking your word for that and trying to work collaboratively with you to help figure out what's going on and to develop a treatment plan with you that you feel comfortable with.
00:34:29:40 - 00:34:41:46
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So feel free to ask questions if you feel like your questions aren't adequately answered, then maybe you need to look at a clinician who would be a better fit for you and your family.
00:34:41:46 - 00:35:03:20
Dr. Paul Thomas
That gut instinct, that intuition, that mommy or daddy knowingness that you have this little voice in your head. Maybe that's saying, I don't feel comfortable doing this, then don't do it. You know, just there's always time when it comes to medical procedures, something like a vaccine as an example, you can't take it out once it's given. You can always wait and pause and study and think about it and come back later.
00:35:03:20 - 00:35:19:21
Dr. Paul Thomas
If you decide you want to do it. Thank you for watching. Thank you Doctor Mom, for for sharing all this wisdom with us today. And folks, if you have any questions whatsoever about Covid, I highly recommend this new book that's coming out. By the time you're watching this, I think the book will be in bookstores. I can't thank you enough.
00:35:19:34 - 00:35:21:17
Dr. Paul Thomas
Doctor Liz Mumford.
00:35:21:22 - 00:35:22:45
Liz Mumper, M.D.
It's a pleasure, Paul.
00:35:22:50 - 00:35:54:04
Dr. Paul Thomas
Thanks for watching, folks, and look forward to seeing you next week. You can find me at Kids First forever.com. I coach and I also have a book Max facts, that will really give you all the information you need. If you're thinking about doing vaccines, it covers pregnancy through old age. Thanks for watching and see you next week.
00:35:54:09 - 00:35:55:16
Now, how old are you?
00:35:55:18 - 00:35:56:13
I'm 19.
00:35:56:18 - 00:36:04:58
19. And this is another Gardasil story. Yes. All right. Let's first of all, tell everybody who you are.
00:36:05:03 - 00:36:06:49
I'm Jacqueline Donkin.
00:36:06:54 - 00:36:08:28
Jacqueline.
00:36:08:33 - 00:36:12:10
And I'm her mother, Christine. Yeah.
00:36:12:15 - 00:36:15:51
Hi. Let's try not to touch her up.
00:36:15:56 - 00:36:33:15
So, Boy, I don't even know where to start. Jacqueline was a dancer. Actually, that's some pictures today. So you can see the before and after. So this was Jackie when she was the,
00:36:33:20 - 00:36:35:39
This is this is modern dancer.
00:36:35:44 - 00:36:37:36
All kinds I did everything.
00:36:37:39 - 00:36:47:55
Yeah. Ballet? Yeah. She taught to little girls. She was. She also, was a singer and an actress.
00:36:48:00 - 00:36:49:53
That is so cool. You can hear.
00:36:50:00 - 00:36:54:33
That. That this is how she spends most of her days now.
00:36:54:38 - 00:36:56:15
So you bedridden?
00:36:56:19 - 00:37:24:51
Yeah. She's, susceptible to, a lot of things. So if somebody has a cold, she might get pneumonia. She gets very, very sick being around, you know, other kids. So she can't be in environments where there's a lot of people. Because our immune system's so worn down.
00:37:24:56 - 00:37:28:22
You can't on TV. I don't know.
00:37:28:27 - 00:37:30:26
You know, no. One of this one heart.
00:37:30:31 - 00:37:33:28
Yeah. She misses it a lot. She was,
00:37:33:33 - 00:37:34:47
She's only friends.
00:37:34:52 - 00:37:35:15
Yes.
00:37:35:21 - 00:37:37:18
She used to dance with.
00:37:37:23 - 00:37:50:25
I was on a team, a travel team. So we would go and compete every weekend, and I was dancing around. I go to school, then I go to dance at 2:00, and then I dance until 10:00 at night. Every single day. Yeah.
00:37:50:30 - 00:38:13:34
Yeah. She was very, very busy. She was a straight-A student. She had a ton of friends. She was very, very well liked. This was after they took all the blood to figure out what was wrong with her. She passed out from that. And, this was after a simple laparoscopy. She had a ovarian cyst that had to be removed, and her pain was off.
00:38:13:34 - 00:38:14:22
To the Gardasil.
00:38:14:33 - 00:38:16:36
Yes, actually, the Gardasil and her.
00:38:16:41 - 00:38:21:31
How many times are we hearing about these variances? Yeah.
00:38:21:36 - 00:38:29:34
She'd never had any before. Beforehand. And, that was a simple. You can. You can. Yeah.
00:38:29:39 - 00:38:30:24
I'll get back.
00:38:30:29 - 00:38:45:17
That's fine. So she I mean, she was doing really well in school, and she was really popular, and she actually had, audition with Disney, and they wanted to fire out to California, and she was. I mean, she had a very promising future. And.
00:38:45:22 - 00:38:47:52
Why Disney wants to fire Apple.
00:38:47:57 - 00:38:58:37
They were doing casting for different shows and stuff, and they I was in the top 13 out of everyone in the country, but, I wasn't able to go. I, I don't do any. And you have.
00:38:58:37 - 00:39:00:10
To be like a Disney princess.
00:39:00:15 - 00:39:01:14
I think. Yeah.
00:39:01:16 - 00:39:03:43
Oh, my gosh, you have no idea how much that means to her because she.
00:39:03:51 - 00:39:06:24
I love Disney princess.
00:39:06:29 - 00:39:13:48
Yeah. When you come to our summit, you can be the Disney okay for that? Yeah. There's a lot of children who don't want that photograph taken.
00:39:13:59 - 00:39:16:05
Yeah. I'm okay with that.
00:39:16:07 - 00:39:17:48
Yeah, I get that.
00:39:17:53 - 00:39:41:31
So, when she was, this happened in 2011, she had around middle school, she started to get a lot of strep throat, and, she'd always had straw, but it was just more cases of it more frequent. And she started to get tonsil stones. Her, tonsils actually started to form stones. And, from all the scarring she had from the strap, and she was getting sick.
00:39:41:31 - 00:39:53:00
And so we went to the, two pediatrician and a routine visit. And the pediatrician said, are you going to get the Gardasil vaccine today? And I said,
00:39:53:04 - 00:39:54:55
I know this is the first one to.
00:39:55:00 - 00:39:55:39
My very first.
00:39:55:39 - 00:39:59:52
She was sick again. Another person that was just like.
00:39:59:57 - 00:40:23:50
Yeah. And so I said, no, because, about a month or so before that, she had under her knee or something and dance and had gone to a physical therapist who had said, you know, have you, gotten the Gardasil vaccine yet? And I said, no, she hasn't had it. And he says, well, I'm seeing a lot of girls that are coming in with, injuries from the Gardasil vaccine.
00:40:23:55 - 00:40:43:09
And he said, please do your research on it. So when the doctor asked whether or not she would have the Gardasil vaccine, I said, no, we'd like to take some time to research it while she kept going back in for strap or tonsil stones. And the doctor, probably 5 or 6 times, kept asking about whether or not we were going to get this shot.
00:40:43:09 - 00:41:03:28
And I kept saying, now, I still haven't done my research. One of those times, however, I was not able to make the appointment and my husband took her and, the doctor asked and my husband said, you know, I'd rather wait for my wife. And the doctor said to my husband, oh, so you want your daughter to get cancer?
00:41:03:33 - 00:41:39:55
And, he loves her so it's it's a decision that, As a parent, you can't forgive yourself for. We had no idea. We had no idea. So she got the vaccine, and, instantly she had some dizziness. She was tired. Her arm hurt a little bit, but no doctor had mentioned that it could possibly be from the Gardasil vaccine.
00:41:40:00 - 00:42:12:17
And a month later, she had a tonsillectomy for the tonsils. And when she had the tonsillectomy and she came out from that tonsillectomy, her anxiety was so bad she had to sleep with me. She had night terrors and couldn't sleep at night. She, took three months to heal from a tonsillectomy. That should take about three weeks to heal from, and nobody could figure out why it was taking so long and why it was so hard for her.
00:42:12:22 - 00:42:28:05
So then we started seeing doctors because she couldn't go back to school. This child who couldn't wait to go to school, and who was popular and well liked by teachers, couldn't go to school and was in pain and didn't feel well and wasn't healing.
00:42:28:05 - 00:42:31:40
And we used did have to stop dancing at that point. That's.
00:42:31:45 - 00:42:59:06
Yeah. Oh because really hard. Yeah. And I got a lot of criticism from my friends, people like my principal teachers, my dance team. Everybody would like they would say I was faking and I didn't know what was happening to me, but I knew that something was wrong. And I've never been in that type of state. I'm always like, wanting to be social and you know, I love dancing.
00:42:59:06 - 00:43:16:33
I would never want to give up dancing ever. And I could not do anything. I couldn't even go to the grocery store. So it was difficult to have everyone kind of attacking me and telling me that it was all me when I didn't want this. This was not the way I wanted to live my life.
00:43:16:37 - 00:43:26:45
This is this is incredible to me. How friends and family and so-called loved people are dance teachers. What if it may be time.
00:43:26:49 - 00:43:31:02
To turn on the fact? Yeah, for forgot.
00:43:31:07 - 00:43:48:58
Because I don't think anybody knew and you know, it was like like I couldn't even understand like why aren't you going to school. Why aren't you going to school. Like, is there something wrong that you don't want to like. Why can't you go to school like I didn't understand, my husband didn't understand. And we started getting pressure, actually, from the school.
00:43:49:03 - 00:44:10:33
They would call us and say, why is your daughter not here? So we started seeing, looking for help because she was in a really bad state. She would have these rages, that were not like her at all. And, I don't know if it's okay with you that I share about. Okay. So she started self-harming, which she had never done before.
00:44:10:37 - 00:44:16:21
At one point, she had cut her arm 32 times, and I had no idea what was happening to my child.
00:44:16:21 - 00:44:19:23
I what what was what what was making you do that?
00:44:19:32 - 00:44:42:18
I had so much anxiety and so much I was so deeply depressed. Like that time. When I think back to it, it just feels dark. I could not I would never left my room talking to people like I was just like out of it. I felt completely out of it. And the only way that I could cope with the amount of anxiety and stress and depression was to cut.
00:44:42:18 - 00:44:55:34
And it was like it was. It would relieve some of that. I could I felt like I could breathe a little bit, but these it would come on so strong. That's the only way that I could handle it. Were.
00:44:55:34 - 00:44:58:03
You did they have they put you on any psychotropic drugs?
00:44:58:03 - 00:45:00:45
Yeah. Yes. Because we initially they.
00:45:00:47 - 00:45:06:00
Had been one of the problems, without a doubt. Yeah. We've seen the side effects of these drugs I.
00:45:06:00 - 00:45:32:12
Yeah. And so actually what ended up happening was for two years they had her on those drugs, and, she wasn't doing better. She wasn't getting better. And so, finally, her psychiatrist said, you know, she's not getting better. There's something else going on here. I believe. And around that time, actually, we didn't know this until we started looking and piecing this together.
00:45:32:12 - 00:45:41:13
I mean, I want you to understand that for us, this is all just come to light in the last month. We're just now finally realizing that it's guarded, so.
00:45:41:19 - 00:45:44:10
And why is that? Why have you noticed?
00:45:44:15 - 00:46:11:10
Because the CDC tells you that vaccines are safe. And do you believe it? You believe that that's true? The doctors never mentioned Gardasil. They never mentioned that. That would be what could harm my daughter. Nobody ever said this is what's taking your daughter's livelihood away. This is why she can't dance. This is why she can't go to school.
00:46:11:10 - 00:46:39:13
Nobody ever said that to us. And so when you don't know that, that's what's happening. You're lost. So we saw these doctors and she went through, you know, psychiatric treatment and, we did these things and she wasn't getting better. And in 2013, and we just found out that she had the second shot. I don't remember ever agreeing to it, but they gave her a second Gardasil shot, and that's when the wheels fell off.
00:46:39:26 - 00:46:40:25
When did that happen?
00:46:40:37 - 00:46:44:37
That was in 2013. That was, around her junior year.
00:46:44:51 - 00:46:46:45
And so you've only ever had two. Yes.
00:46:46:45 - 00:46:51:24
Yes, yes. Because I think she had the third. She probably would be in a wheelchair.
00:46:51:24 - 00:47:09:42
That doctor that I had every single time I went in, she was like practically shoving it down my throat. She was like, you have to do it. And I'd be alone with her. And she would tell me, like to make me feel guilty, as if my decision. And, you know, I was young, I didn't know anything about this.
00:47:09:42 - 00:47:18:22
So I just was like, okay. And just agreed to it. And the way that she handled that is disgusting to me at this point.
00:47:18:24 - 00:47:28:28
Now, is this doctor still practicing? Yes. That's all the time. Yeah. Right. I would you you need to report these doctors for medical. Yeah, yeah. For bullying medical.
00:47:28:28 - 00:47:30:12
Magazine. Right.
00:47:30:16 - 00:47:40:11
You see that? That must be something you do. Because my fear is these doctors 17 and these doctors are still practicing and still hurting people. Yeah, yeah.
00:47:40:16 - 00:47:58:18
So she had the second shot and, almost instantly, within a week or so, she started having random shocks all over her body, electric shocks. And, we actually took her to the hospital, and they were asking us.
00:47:58:18 - 00:48:18:40
They took me separately. The nurse took me, walked me around, and she was like, are you feeling depressed? How's school going? Are you is your family close to you? And was giving me a full psych evaluation when I came in for pain that I was having, and they ended up just sending me home and I didn't get any help at all.
00:48:18:45 - 00:48:35:00
And that's something that I deal with all the time, is, you know, if you go to the emergency room or regular doctors, they just treat you like it's all in your head. And that's horrific. When you are suffering, it's the worst thing ever.
00:48:35:04 - 00:48:55:12
So they they didn't have a diagnosis. They sent her home, and she continued to have these socks. She would get a cold, hard muscles. Her muscles would get so hard. And I would try to massage them and rub them out, but her limbs would turn blue. She her legs in particular, hurt really, really bad.
00:48:55:12 - 00:49:19:04
Her hips and her knee joints were very, very painful. Her hands would turn black, from loss of circulation. She would have rib cage that would stick out. You could see the bone sticking out. There's costal dryness. And it's it was an effect of what was happening in her body. She would it would happen in her back as well.
00:49:19:09 - 00:49:39:46
And she would get chest pain, like really bad heart pain. She would wake up at night with night terrors and she would have drenching horrific sweats. She would get really, really bad migraines and dizzy spells and fatigue that was so severe that she couldn't even get out of bed that day. Nausea.
00:49:39:51 - 00:49:40:44
Yeah.
00:49:40:49 - 00:49:46:30
Eating wasn't eating. She doesn't eat. She eats probably three different things, and that's it.
00:49:46:30 - 00:49:56:37
And, why? What happened to what makes you not want. So if I offered you a cookie, what would you say? What would your body say?
00:49:56:42 - 00:50:23:57
I just never have an appetite. I never feel, I mean, I don't feel hungry, like I want to eat something. I feel the hollow. That's kind of of like. Oh, I haven't eaten in forever, but, like, I don't actually want to eat anything, and, like, textures are weird for me. But there will be, like, 2 or 3 days to go by, and I'll have, like, a snack or something, or it has to be a craving that I have, and then I eat a lot of that.
00:50:24:02 - 00:50:40:43
But on a day to day basis, like meals, I don't really I probably dinner's my biggest meal. And it's scary for me because I'm like, what is going on here? I know that I should be eating, but like, I'm just never hungry. So it's hard.
00:50:40:43 - 00:51:00:42
For us as a family to at meal time because, you know, we make meal and we sit down together as a family, but we always have to make something different for Jacqueline, or accept the fact that maybe tonight she can't eat. And that's really, really difficult. So we were at a loss and we didn't know what to do.
00:51:00:42 - 00:51:06:58
And nobody had mentioned the Gardasil shot. And so we, the psychiatrist said, you know, I don't think this is psychiatric.
00:51:07:03 - 00:51:08:48
Oh, please stay away from psychiatry.
00:51:08:55 - 00:51:56:35
I know we we do you have plans? Yeah. No, no. So we we stopped going that route and I started looking up information again, never thinking about Gardasil. And, we heard about something called pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with strep. In short, that's Pandas or Pans. And, it was initially mentioned to us by her counselor. And, a lot of times kids with strep, the strap actually crosses the blood brain barrier and it affects the brain and can cause symptoms like anxiety and, you know, night terrors and some of the things that she had.
00:51:56:35 - 00:52:26:59
But it didn't explain the physical symptoms that she was having. So from that standpoint, they said, yeah, you know, maybe she has pandas and possibly she's had it probably even since the time she was a kid. So now we look back knowing what we know now, and we believe that the Gardasil vaccine just took that mild pandas that we probably never would have known that she had, and just mutated it in a way that, you know, those anxiety and those symptoms that she was having just kind of really went crazy.
00:52:27:04 - 00:52:50:54
After we found out about the pandas, she was diagnosed with chronic Lyme. So now we found out that she has chronic Lyme disease. She has autonomic dysfunction. So, she's having those sweats and the cardiac issues, and, she has severe pain. She's got the ovarian cysts now that she never had before. Extremely painful periods.
00:52:50:58 - 00:53:13:34
The laparoscopy that she had to remove one of her cysts, they were ready to just send her home. Her pain was so severe, she couldn't walk. Her bottom jaw would tremor. And you talk about ignoring something that is blatantly in front of you by a medical community. They literally looked at her and said, oh, she she's she'll be fine.
00:53:13:34 - 00:53:35:01
Just send her home. And we took her home and my child screamed in pain for almost two days, and we finally took her back into the emergency room. And the emergency room doctor said that obviously she was in excruciating pain. She ended up in the hospital for another week on, Dilaudid and drips because the pain was so severe.
00:53:35:06 - 00:54:01:49
And so that's what the Gardasil vaccine has done. Now, something simple that a laparoscopy that you and I might get and heal from and be able to walk out of the hospital with. Now for Jacqueline, her pain signals are that small fiber neuropathy that she's developed because of this Gardasil vaccine. Her pain signals are you know, I could scratch her and her skin will turn blue.
00:54:01:54 - 00:54:11:46
Because her body reacts to it differently now, and she's just very sick, and she's lost friends. She only knows one other person here in Columbus anymore.
00:54:11:46 - 00:54:12:48
Oh.
00:54:12:52 - 00:54:15:31
My. Yeah, I know, but it's.
00:54:15:31 - 00:54:17:19
Been hard going to be alone again.
00:54:17:24 - 00:54:40:52
She's 19. She's never driver's license. You know, she can't go to college. She had to be homeschooled in high school. Her old high school, had kept her from going to prom two years in a row. I mean, she really she went through it, and then, because she was sick and people didn't understand why somebody who's as beautiful as she is and looks as normal as she did, it does.
00:54:40:52 - 00:54:44:12
Could be so sick. Thank you. Yeah. These,
00:54:44:17 - 00:54:52:47
I'm worried about your father. Your husband with the guilt that he must be carrying. And it's horrible. How. How's you doing?
00:54:52:52 - 00:54:56:00
Every time we talk about it, he cries.
00:54:56:04 - 00:54:59:31
It wasn't his fault. You truly wasn't. He was bullied.
00:54:59:31 - 00:55:23:58
Yeah, yeah. My. You know, I feel the pain that my parents feel all the time. My family feels. And that's hard because I don't want. I don't want what I'm going through to affect them. And to know that my dad feels that guilt. I tell my parents all the time. I don't blame either of them, ever. I blame the doctor that forced it on us.
00:55:23:58 - 00:55:45:36
And, you know, this was just a really hard card that I've been dealt. And my mom, I mean, she's my lifesaver. She's the one that, you know, found out that I blame and Panas and she's, you know, dedicated her life the past couple years to making me better and trying to figure out what's going on with me.
00:55:45:36 - 00:56:08:54
And I don't think I would be this far, in the healing process and everything without my mom. She's, She's changed my life, and I. I appreciate my family so much, but it definitely it hurt to me, that they've been damaged by this as well. So it's been hard all around for everyone.
00:56:08:58 - 00:56:27:25
Okay. These people want to show you how much they love you. Your time's up. Yeah. That. That speaks. You did that. You. You're a very good speaker. Thank you. So. So I'm looking forward to having a this is this is love for you guys. So the heart is on the right. Yeah. They love you. Because you know what?
00:56:27:30 - 00:56:34:56
They they can't bear to see this that's happened to you. You know that it's injured you and hurt you and your family. That love is for you as well, mama.
00:56:35:01 - 00:56:38:41
Oh, that means so much. Yes. Thank you.
00:56:38:46 - 00:56:57:28
It's like. It's like a veil has been finally lifted. And, you know, even with pandas, like, Jacqueline was like, it doesn't feel right. And now she feels like she's a part of this community. And it all finally makes sense. And she, you know, she now goes, okay, like I, I have other there's other people like me and I sit in silence.
00:56:57:33 - 00:56:59:39
Oh amazing. Thank you.
00:56:59:45 - 00:57:05:44
Family. That's right. We are family guys. You're absolutely right. Did you find the bus right?
00:57:05:44 - 00:57:06:58
Yeah. Not. Yeah.
00:57:07:03 - 00:57:12:25
Oh, go and do the questions second. Okay. Let's see guys they love you know, for drink.
00:57:12:29 - 00:57:35:17
You guys. Thank you so much.
00:57:35:22 - 00:57:36:51
Dr. Paul Thomas
I look forward to running
00:57:36:58 - 00:58:01:16
Dr. Paul Thomas
together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
00:58:01:22 - 00:58:02:09
Dr. Paul Thomas
I'm Dr. Paul.
Speaker Times
- Liz Mumper, M.D. — 74.3% of speaking time (~25 min 24 sec)
- Dr. Paul Thomas — 25.7% of speaking time (~8 min 47 sec)
Transcript
00:00:40:34 - 00:01:05:39
Dr. Paul Thomas
VAX facts this book hits bookstores December 10th. You can get a copy now by going to VAX Facts book.com, where you can get a signed author's copy, where you can order an e-book, or you can also preorder the book if you are seeing this message before December 10th. You can also order this book at any bookseller, any bookstore, wherever books are sold, and preorder your copy.
00:01:05:53 - 00:01:17:28
Dr. Paul Thomas
Get this book for your loved ones, for your family, for yourself, and let's get healthy.
00:01:17:33 - 00:01:26:48
Unknown
Do. You.
00:01:26:53 - 00:01:35:05
Unknown
Know.
00:01:35:10 - 00:01:50:44
Dr. Paul Thomas
Good morning, PhD, and welcome to Pediatric Perspectives from wherever you're viewing in the world. We are looking at children's health challenges from a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking on this. Not afraid to give you the honest truth. Back on the show today, Doctor Liz Mumford.
00:01:50:48 - 00:01:52:47
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Thank you Paul, good to be here.
00:01:52:52 - 00:02:11:45
Dr. Paul Thomas
Doctor Mumford, if you missed her last show, has been a pediatrician for 45 years. She's my mentor. She is still training doctors around the world through the organization called Maps Medical Academy and Pediatric Special Needs. She is the author of a new book, Kids in Covid, which we talked in-depth at the last show. So go back and look at that.
00:02:11:49 - 00:02:31:27
Dr. Paul Thomas
We're going to focus today on chronic conditions in childhood because I know, Liz, this is a lot of what you've dedicated your career to treating and helping. It's the most difficult thing to do in pediatrics, but I thought it would be fun and interesting to start. You know, you started pediatrics even before I did. You go back 45 years ago.
00:02:31:32 - 00:02:43:51
Dr. Paul Thomas
It seemed like we were very focused on infectious diseases back then. And I just wondered if you might share briefly what you've seen in your career and sort of what the change has been.
00:02:43:55 - 00:03:07:22
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. So I was a resident, from 1980 to 1983, and then I spent a year as chief resident at the University of Virginia. And I remember very clearly the faculty there having discussions about how in pediatrics, it was so fun because you could treat an acute illness, something like a pneumonia or an ear infection, and the kids would get better.
00:03:07:27 - 00:03:40:24
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And so it tended to attract people who enjoyed playing with the kids and seeing this kind of, rapid turnaround and seeing how well the kids did and the contrast was made to internal medicine, where there were a lot more chronic illnesses, things like heart disease or chronic lung disease or cancer. Now, sadly, what you and I have seen fall is that in the last three decades, all kinds of childhood chronic illness has increased dramatically.
00:03:40:28 - 00:04:08:36
Liz Mumper, M.D.
The one that I think consumed with is the exponential increase in autism. When I was a medical student, we were told that we probably wouldn't see another case of autism. There was a child that had autism at the Medical College of Virginia, which is now Virginia Commonwealth University, and we should all go and see that child. At that time, the prevalence of autism was about 1 in 5000 children.
00:04:08:40 - 00:04:36:31
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And now with the latest numbers that have come out, the prevalence is about 1 in 31 children. And since there's a male predominance, for example, in California, where we have really good statistics, it's 1 in 12 point five boys. So people argue about, well, maybe we're just doing a really good job of identifying these people. And the diagnostic criteria have changed.
00:04:36:36 - 00:05:21:36
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But you and I know that there are many more neurologically, ill children today than when we were training. And so I think that at least 79% of the increase is really due to more cases. That's what the best studies that we have suggest. Other things that we've seen increased dramatically is type one diabetes. Now in children, most of their diabetes used to be type one, meaning that it was an autoimmune reaction where, the patient developed antibodies to these specialized cells in their pancreas that interfered with their ability to make insulin type two diabetes.
00:05:21:36 - 00:06:01:27
Liz Mumper, M.D.
What we as what you see would happen to people in their 50s and 60s and 70s where over time they became insulin resistant and their cells didn't respond to insulin. But sadly, we're now seeing seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12 year olds who have type two diabetes, which used to be called adult onset diabetes. So I really worry that the amount of sugar that our children are exposed to, the number of processed foods that they eat, and the relative lack of, the kind of whole natural foods that people grew up on in the 50s and 60s.
00:06:01:32 - 00:06:31:02
Liz Mumper, M.D.
That change in diet is really impacting, their prevalence of not just diabetes, but obesity, which is another thing that's really increased a lot in my state of Virginia, about 30% of kids are either overweight or obese. And that is, something that's going to predispose them to a lifetime of more inflammation and more chronic illness. We've also seen increases in things like eczema and allergies and asthma.
00:06:31:07 - 00:06:56:32
Liz Mumper, M.D.
This happens when your immune system gets a little bit out of kilter. And instead of being in balance where you fight infections well and you don't have autoimmunity or asthma, you tend to have a shift to the two type of immunity where, you do have more autoimmunity and asthma. And so these are all trends that we've seen.
00:06:56:37 - 00:07:26:31
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I worry about the increasing exposures to endocrine disrupting chemicals, to plastics, to glass estate. You know, we can't tell by just doing a physical exam on a child how well their liver enzymes work or how well their detoxification systems work to protect him. Them from all these new chemicals and, pollution exposures. So our kids have got a tough time these days.
00:07:26:31 - 00:07:49:33
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And, probably well over 50% based on the best studies that we have of our children nowadays have at least one chronic condition, chronic, meaning that it's not something you can get over in a few days like you would if you had a cold or another virus. So that's the sad landscape. And I'm sure you have seen it too.
00:07:49:37 - 00:08:15:33
Dr. Paul Thomas
Absolutely. So if you're watching you, if you have children or you have friends who have children, you've probably seen or heard of kids who are struggling with autism or ADHD or anxiety or depression, all those neurological things, developmental delays, the learning disabilities, etc.. And then we're seeing this whole host of allergy and autoimmune conditions. There's, as you mentioned, Liz, the asthma, the asthma and and so forth.
00:08:15:42 - 00:08:48:11
Dr. Paul Thomas
It's really epidemic. And you've touched on some of the reasons toxins, toxins, toxins and lack of proper nutrients and sort of wholesome living. I, I'm just really curious, just to get right down to the nitty gritty, if I'm thinking about having a family, I have several lots of children, and, they've started having kids. Now, I know you have grandkids as well, but if someone's thinking about having a starting a family, I've heard that generations say they're afraid to have kids.
00:08:48:13 - 00:09:20:35
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah, the millennials are afraid to have kids. And, you know, part of it is that they're worried about bringing a child into a world that seems as screwed up as ours sometimes does, both from a pollution standpoint and sometimes politically. For socio economic and political reasons. Right. But I do think that if you're if you're thinking of having a child, you really need to work at least six months to a year Pre-Conception to really try to clean up your own diet, eat as organic is possible.
00:09:20:35 - 00:09:51:53
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Try to make sure that you're not getting your yard sprayed with pesticides and, not getting your hands sprayed for bugs. Looking at your cleaning products, we all are potentially at a tipping point where our evolution into using all these extra products that we never saw before, is outpacing the evolution of our body's ability to adjust and change and detoxify them.
00:09:51:58 - 00:10:20:07
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So, start six months early at least. We would want the mothers to be taking good omega three supplementation, make sure their vitamin D levels are in an optimum range that would be more than 50 nanograms per deciliter, not just the more than 30. That is the, cutoff for normal in most labs, because you want it to be optimal, not just barely enough to keep you from getting rickets.
00:10:20:12 - 00:10:49:31
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And we would want them to have, good B vitamins and the right kind of B vitamins. We advocate using not synthetic folic acid, but using a methylated form of splenic acid, because that's very important for a lot of the biochemistry that helps protect the child from not just spinal tube defects, but other problems with their, biochemistry.
00:10:49:36 - 00:11:23:08
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So start early and then, you have a lot of decisions to make about, how you're going to birth your child, whether you want to use traditional, obstetric care or whether you want to try to do a more natural birth, with a midwife or potentially even at home, and then pull one of your passions. And, I have supported you completely in your investigation of the role of vaccine decision making.
00:11:23:21 - 00:11:25:09
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Should we talk about that a little bit?
00:11:25:18 - 00:11:46:22
Dr. Paul Thomas
Oh, I can't help but talk about it. I'm no longer licensed, so I'm not giving medical advice, but I'm also free to tell you the honest truth, which is part of why I love this Pediatric Perspectives platform. I would add to what you were saying was with pregnancy, doing vaccines in pregnancy is is a grand experiment. None of them were tested in pregnancy.
00:11:46:27 - 00:12:03:52
Dr. Paul Thomas
And in fact, I've looked over some of the data used where the accidentally someone was pregnant, they didn't know it, and they got a vaccine. And it's not good. I can say with confidence it is not a good idea to vaccinate when pregnant. It is absolute insanity to give a newborn a hepatitis B vaccine when mom doesn't have hep.
00:12:03:52 - 00:12:04:12
Dr. Paul Thomas
Be.
00:12:04:18 - 00:12:28:25
Liz Mumper, M.D.
One of the things that has always worried me is that we know that this thing called maternal immune activation is a risk factor for autism and other neurodevelopmental problems. So when you're pregnant, you naturally want to be in a little bit of an immune tolerance state. Because if your body recognizes your fetus as foreign, it will try to attack it or get rid of it.
00:12:28:25 - 00:12:53:30
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So your your immune system is has this exquisite dance. It does where it tolerates this new body that you're making from scratch. And it's taking a lot of your calcium and zinc and other nutrients to do so when you give vaccines. I'm very concerned that that tends to, have the potential to hyper sensitize or over activate the mother's immune system.
00:12:53:35 - 00:13:25:16
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And that, I think, is more of a risk in this day and time than the diseases that the vaccines purport to help. And one of the most common vaccines it's given in pregnancy is the flu vaccine, which honestly never really has that good of a track record in terms of actually preventing the flu. And we know that when we give children flu vaccines, they're actually more likely to get other types of respiratory infections, as a result of having had that shot.
00:13:25:21 - 00:13:50:23
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So I also am very concerned about vaccines in pregnancy. Now, you and I both, as we have aged and watched this generation of children, the more we know about vaccines, the less confidence we have in them. And we know that, typically they're not tested against a true placebo. A placebo should be something that's inert, like an injection of salt water.
00:13:50:28 - 00:14:31:28
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But typically vaccines are tested against other vaccines. So you're already building in whatever side effects could happen from those other vaccines. We've also never really tested vaccines in combination with one another. So, one of the things that has grown out of your work, Paul, is the evidence about if a child receives four or 5 or 6 vaccines at one time, the aluminum load not only is a high acute meaning, right away a high level of aluminum, but it also causes chronic elevated levels of aluminum and aluminum, like mercury.
00:14:31:28 - 00:14:54:27
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Both are known neurotoxins. And so at a time that the child is building their brain, that very important time in the first year of life, I am very hesitant to give such a big aluminum load. And that's why you and I both looked at doing modified immune schedules back actually, like 20 years ago. Now it seems like it was just yesterday.
00:14:54:27 - 00:15:07:33
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But, you've been telling me that you feel like now that your vaccine friendly schedule and my modified vaccine schedule aren't friendly or modified enough, right? And I.
00:15:07:37 - 00:15:20:30
Dr. Paul Thomas
I agree completely. You published a paper that really got my attention way back. Was it 2015 or something like that where you had no autism in your unvaccinated population?
00:15:20:30 - 00:15:26:15
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah, I think that was more like, 2011 or 12 or 13 somewhere in there. Yeah.
00:15:26:19 - 00:15:31:34
Dr. Paul Thomas
Oh, that's right, because it was 2015, I tried to publish the same design study with.
00:15:31:39 - 00:15:31:43
Liz Mumper, M.D.
A.
00:15:31:43 - 00:15:36:01
Dr. Paul Thomas
Larger subset, and the journal wouldn't accept it, wouldn't even look at it.
00:15:36:06 - 00:16:13:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
But you had like 1 in 795 or something. Kids with autism. So your numbers were even better than mine. And, your papers and my research has led us to the conclusion that looking at vaccine schedules are more heavily vaccinated, kids are more likely to have a whole host of about 13 different medical chronic conditions. And so I do think that in the new administration and I think that, Secretary of Health and Human Services is very interested in doing this.
00:16:13:34 - 00:16:41:35
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I do think we need to look very carefully at that data and not accept the mantra that, you know, vaccines are clear. They aren't associated with chronic illness. They aren't associated with autism. That has been, a bit of propaganda, frankly, because when you really look carefully at the evidence that led those people to make those statements, there are a lot of holes in the evidence.
00:16:41:35 - 00:16:46:09
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And if we could go into it in detail, we could sort of deconstruct those arguments.
00:16:46:14 - 00:16:46:59
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, that that's.
00:16:47:06 - 00:16:49:29
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Beyond what I think we're going to do today.
00:16:49:34 - 00:17:18:12
Dr. Paul Thomas
I think you're right. But I mean, you as a, you know, autism expert, trained other doctors on how to manage this. You ran your own Remin center where this is the population you were primarily working with. You undoubtedly saw, as I did, hundreds of families where they would have one child with autism. They would then and they saw many of these families saw that happen right after vaccines or shortly thereafter.
00:17:18:16 - 00:17:34:56
Dr. Paul Thomas
And when they had a subsequent child, they didn't want to vaccinate. Right. It's like, no, I'm not going to do that to another child. And what did you see in terms of the health of siblings who were unvaccinated? If they had a older sibling who had a vaccine injury, such as autism or whatever?
00:17:35:01 - 00:18:06:44
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I can't think of an example where the unvaccinated child was not the healthier sibling. They typically did not develop these chronic illnesses that we're talking about in terms of eczema and asthma and autism. So it it is very profound. I will tell you, I looked through all my charts, to look at the patient histories, because you and I were both taught that taking a very excellent, comprehensive history is the best way to figure out what's going on with the patient.
00:18:06:49 - 00:18:47:12
Liz Mumper, M.D.
In 23% of my patients reported that, it seemed like their child deteriorated after the MMR vaccine. And then I had about another 25% of my patients who thought that it was a whole bunch of vaccines given at once, at a time when the child was already ill. So back in the 90s, in 2000, the Academy of Pediatrics was advocating that if you saw a child for an ear infection or RSV or, an asthma attack, whatever the case might be, if they were overdue for vaccines, you should take that opportunity to give them a vaccine.
00:18:47:12 - 00:19:21:29
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I never thought that there was scientific justification for that, because your immune system is otherwise preoccupied when you are in the midst of an acute illness. But nonetheless, there was this grab them and stab them campaign. And I think that, especially if multiple vaccines were given when a child had an acute ear infection and was being prescribed antibiotics, or if they were in the midst of some type of respiratory distress, I think that's something that needs to be looked at very carefully, because parents are excellent observers of their children.
00:19:21:29 - 00:19:45:06
Liz Mumper, M.D.
They know what their typical feeding patterns are like. They know how well they sleep or not, and they should be believed when they say something has changed and we shouldn't write it off is just a coincidence that the symptoms started the day of the day after, or two days after a bunch of vaccines were given. We need to take the parents seriously.
00:19:45:11 - 00:20:10:25
Dr. Paul Thomas
Absolutely. I remember that push to just catch kids up if they're behind or any missed opportunity is a tragedy. You've got to, the pressure to vaccinate was just so huge. I think it probably continues. I've met several families whose babies, infants died right after a vaccine because it was done against their wishes, really, when their child was sick.
00:20:10:25 - 00:20:21:18
Dr. Paul Thomas
So sudden infant death, infants dying, is very temporally related to when vaccines are given. I've got a chapter on that in my book, VAX Facts.
00:20:21:25 - 00:20:45:28
Liz Mumper, M.D.
You know, it's so interesting the way our perspectives color what we see and analyze because for so many years, sudden infant death, you would hear the story that the child had gone to the doctor the day before and that the check up was fine and that the baby seemed really healthy. And then they died of the next day or two days after.
00:20:45:33 - 00:21:08:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And it was sort of presented as this type of puzzle. Oh, how could the child be perfectly healthy? And then some unknown factor intervened and took the child's life. Isn't it interesting that we didn't do what we would typically do and say, wow, well, let's see, the child was well one day, got sick the next day. What was different?
00:21:08:39 - 00:21:37:54
Liz Mumper, M.D.
You know, was exposed to someone who was sick or, you know, did he have an accident or, you know, we would ask all these questions if a child came in with a broken leg or a new illness, but with SIDs, it seems like one of the good questions would be, did the doctor do anything that potentially could have contributed to the child's death and the the temporal significance of the way SIDs clusters so quickly after vaccines?
00:21:37:54 - 00:22:11:37
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And Neil Milner has done a lot of work on this is highly suggestive. And then we also have, plausible modes of action by which vaccines can, interfere with mitochondrial function and cause oxidative stress to the infant. So I think that there's going to be, rethinking of the etiology, the reason behind SIDs, if we look carefully at the data, and I hope that happens in the new administration also.
00:22:11:42 - 00:22:28:45
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, I would think that would be a really easy one if they have access to medical records. You look at all the infant deaths and you look at what happened in the week prior to that death, as far as any medical procedures goes or, you know, doctor's visits. So you can kind of get an idea of what was going on.
00:22:28:50 - 00:22:52:52
Dr. Paul Thomas
There are about 20,000 infant deaths in the US every year. And I'm just thinking back, you and I have a history of decades of being in pediatrics. Back when we were younger pediatricians, there were a lot of deaths from infectious diseases. I mean, you and I treated meningitis and sepsis. How many kids would you guess? And I didn't warn you about this question.
00:22:52:52 - 00:23:11:37
Dr. Paul Thomas
So you may not have a guess, but I get the feeling like there's not that many kids who are dying from the diseases for which we have vaccines. Where? What's your feeling on that? I mean, measles, pertussis, tetanus, diptheria, polio, you name them. All right. The actual numbers of deaths are quite low.
00:23:11:42 - 00:23:36:18
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. I think you looked at that in your book very carefully, because you looked at the risk of death from the illness itself versus the concerns about the shots. I have been only had one child in my practice who died with SIDs, and I do think it was a baby that died within several days of vaccines. I have not had a measles death.
00:23:36:18 - 00:24:18:13
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I have not had a pertussis death. I, have not had a tetanus death. So one of the arguments is that we're not seeing all those things now because the vaccines are so effective. But I think we also need to look really critically at that. Unfortunately, just to take measles as an example, one of the things that happened with measles is that once we started immunizing infants, at either a year or 15 months, 18 months, various ages over time, and then again at kindergarten, because some kids weren't immune from the first exposure.
00:24:18:18 - 00:24:40:04
Liz Mumper, M.D.
What happened is that we took measles out of circulating in the population where not only did other kids get measles, typically do well with it and then have lifelong immunity, but our young mothers started not being immune to measles by the time they were old enough to have babies, and then they would have to get boosted either before or after pregnancy.
00:24:40:09 - 00:25:07:52
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I wouldn't give ever a lot of vaccine in pregnancy, which measles vaccine is, but, you in some ways you kind of get stuck. With, that history of altering the natural course of what would have happened historically without the interventions of the vaccine. So it's it's a bit complex when you try to figure out where to go from.
00:25:07:52 - 00:25:11:27
Dr. Paul Thomas
Here, you would have to throw that wrench into the works.
00:25:11:31 - 00:25:12:43
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yes, I would.
00:25:12:48 - 00:25:36:30
Dr. Paul Thomas
The removal of you, no matter when any child dies. And my heart goes out to any parent who's lost a baby, or a child you always used to hear any death prevented by a vaccine is worth preventing it. You've got to counter that with the other side. Any death caused by a vaccine is worth preventing. And that's where you and I really focused on informed consent.
00:25:36:34 - 00:25:55:31
Dr. Paul Thomas
The risk of death from the vaccine is now greater than the risk of death from the disease for which you're vaccinating, and that's true for every single disease on the childhood schedule. So that's just looking at death. And you and I, we started off this particular conversation on all the chronic conditions, many of which are triggered by vaccines.
00:25:55:36 - 00:26:30:45
Liz Mumper, M.D.
That's true. And, we have several independent, practice based surveys and clinical research that is replicating, one another's findings and finding the same thing. Yeah. And, Paul, this might be a good time to mention to the audience that if they've heard about the two beautiful little girls, one was six years old and one was eight years old who died allegedly from measles, that, upon exquisite examination of their medical records, they actually did not die from measles.
00:26:30:45 - 00:26:57:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
They had, other treatable bacterial conditions that were not, recognized early and treated enough. So I don't want people to assume that what the mass media said was true and that they should be counted as a measles death. I very much don't think that that was the case, I agreed.
00:26:57:43 - 00:27:17:59
Dr. Paul Thomas
I listened to those reports, done by, Ben Edwards, the pediatrician on the ground there, or family practice doc on the ground, and also Suzanne Humphreys and Peter Corey did detailed analysis of the medical records. Those kids didn't die of measles, which means we still have not had a child die of measles in the United States for the last 2 or 3 decades, 20, 30 years.
00:27:18:04 - 00:27:39:58
Dr. Paul Thomas
Measles is not as deadly as it was back in the 1800s. It was largely gone, not completely, but largely gone by the time that vaccine was introduced. You covered in our last episode the key things that parents should do. The toxins in our world are everywhere, and it does matter. What can parents do to minimize that?
00:27:40:03 - 00:28:02:34
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. So one thing is, if you're thinking about, buying a new house, try to find one that, you know, doesn't have led, houses that were built before 1957 often use lead based paint. And even if they've been painted over, there may be, chips in the soil that an infant would play, and that could be dangerous.
00:28:02:39 - 00:28:34:02
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Try not to get a house that's been flooded or that is going to have mold damage, because we're finding that mold in children often start starts a chronic inflammatory response syndrome that can be very difficult to identify and treat. I mentioned avoiding pesticides both on your yard and inside your house. Try to use natural cleaning products rather than ones that have 15 ingredients that are largely chemicals.
00:28:34:07 - 00:28:59:17
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Feed your child nutritious whole foods. Really try to stay away from fast food, and ultra processed foods. We know that one fast food meal is going to elevate inflammatory cytokines. These are messages that tell your child's body to be inflamed, to be hot and red and swollen, and that last for hours after a fast food meal.
00:28:59:17 - 00:29:22:54
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So especially if you have a child with any kind of chronic illness like asthma, eczema, you want to be careful about avoiding fast food. There are some kids with eczema, for example, which is an allergic skin condition that are going to do better if they don't drink, dairy products or they don't have wheat, which has gluten in it.
00:29:22:59 - 00:29:54:22
Liz Mumper, M.D.
There are real concerns about the glyphosate that is now in many of our agricultural products, especially corn and wheat. So you might want to avoid the other things that I think are important to avoid are too many vaccines too soon or for not the appropriate indication, please resist the pressure to do the Covid vaccine. After doing such a deep dive on that, I've researched and wrote that book over a period of three years.
00:29:54:27 - 00:29:59:04
Liz Mumper, M.D.
I just am convinced that it's more harm than good for any pediatric patient.
00:29:59:17 - 00:30:07:02
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, I wonder what you think about acetaminophen Tylenol products.
00:30:07:07 - 00:30:35:03
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. So acetaminophen has an unfortunate characteristic of depleting something called glutathione. I am by about 30% now. You probably never heard of glorifying it. But what is major intracellular antioxidant meaning that it helps fight something called oxidative stress, which children are going to be under if they're sick or if they're in a car accident. It really helps the lining of your gut.
00:30:35:08 - 00:31:02:45
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Your gut is your seat of your immune system. And if the gut lining is interrupted, you're more likely to have food allergies and to not recover from acute illness. Glutathione is also very important for mitochondria, which are the powerhouses of the cell. The sort of basis for your cellular biochemistry. It helps balance your immune system, and it is the gateway to detoxification.
00:31:02:49 - 00:31:34:54
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So it's kind of a paradox that we would give something when kids are sick that would impair so many important functions. And in general, my favorite treatment honestly for fevers is to sponge the kit off with a cool wash rag or to put them in a tepid bath. That's nature's way of cooling you off. You don't necessarily have to have a prescription medicine, but furthermore, for me, fever is your friend, not the enemy.
00:31:34:59 - 00:31:58:00
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Fever's telling you there's something going on with your child, and you need to try to figure out what's causing it. But low grade fever, you know, fever is up to like, 102 and a half. I don't think even really need to be treated at all, because we know that that's part of the immune response, and that's the way of responding to whatever virus or bacteria the child is having.
00:31:58:05 - 00:32:26:09
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So don't feel like you have to treat every low grade fever and, use a set of medicine with caution. I also worry that too much ibuprofen, which should be mode training or Advil because that can be hard on the stomach lining if your child takes too much. So just be aware that some of these things that are taken as accepted practice, aren't necessarily the things that you want to do.
00:32:26:13 - 00:32:57:13
Liz Mumper, M.D.
And I definitely, if you do choose to use some vaccines for your children, don't pre-treat with Tylenol. Doctors have told people to do that for a long time. So at the very time we're giving an injection that has adjuvants in it, meaning other ingredients besides the active ingredient, things that are put in either to preserve the vial or to provoke an immune response, you know, that's not the time that you want to be cutting down the glutathione production by 30%.
00:32:57:13 - 00:33:03:06
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So don't pre-treat or over treat with acetaminophen around vaccinations.
00:33:03:11 - 00:33:25:40
Dr. Paul Thomas
Yeah, I'm just going to come out stronger and say, get rid of it. Get it out of your house. No Tylenol products, no acetaminophen. And, it would be a rare, rare, rare moment that you would possibly want to use it. So, there you have it on that. So you can have a healthy child today. You if you are of the childbearing age and you want to have kids, we've given you a whole lot of food for thought.
00:33:25:45 - 00:33:36:17
Dr. Paul Thomas
And, Liz, thank you so much for all this information. I'm going to let you have the last word, whatever you want to share. And, I'll be glad to hear that.
00:33:36:22 - 00:34:00:12
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Yeah. I just want to give a shout out to parents to trust your instincts. Maternal and paternal instincts have been honed over many generations, and, it's a new thing to feel like you have to look up on the web every time you notice something about your child, and defer to the experts that are writing on the internet.
00:34:00:16 - 00:34:29:36
Liz Mumper, M.D.
Follow your instincts. You know more than you think you do on an instinctual basis, and you also know your child better than anyone else. So if you feel like your child is different or not acting normally, any clinician that you take your child to should start out by taking your word for that and trying to work collaboratively with you to help figure out what's going on and to develop a treatment plan with you that you feel comfortable with.
00:34:29:40 - 00:34:41:46
Liz Mumper, M.D.
So feel free to ask questions if you feel like your questions aren't adequately answered, then maybe you need to look at a clinician who would be a better fit for you and your family.
00:34:41:46 - 00:35:03:20
Dr. Paul Thomas
That gut instinct, that intuition, that mommy or daddy knowingness that you have this little voice in your head. Maybe that's saying, I don't feel comfortable doing this, then don't do it. You know, just there's always time when it comes to medical procedures, something like a vaccine as an example, you can't take it out once it's given. You can always wait and pause and study and think about it and come back later.
00:35:03:20 - 00:35:19:21
Dr. Paul Thomas
If you decide you want to do it. Thank you for watching. Thank you Doctor Mom, for for sharing all this wisdom with us today. And folks, if you have any questions whatsoever about Covid, I highly recommend this new book that's coming out. By the time you're watching this, I think the book will be in bookstores. I can't thank you enough.
00:35:19:34 - 00:35:21:17
Dr. Paul Thomas
Doctor Liz Mumford.
00:35:21:22 - 00:35:22:45
Liz Mumper, M.D.
It's a pleasure, Paul.
00:35:22:50 - 00:35:54:04
Dr. Paul Thomas
Thanks for watching, folks, and look forward to seeing you next week. You can find me at Kids First forever.com. I coach and I also have a book Max facts, that will really give you all the information you need. If you're thinking about doing vaccines, it covers pregnancy through old age. Thanks for watching and see you next week.
00:35:54:09 - 00:35:55:16
Now, how old are you?
00:35:55:18 - 00:35:56:13
I'm 19.
00:35:56:18 - 00:36:04:58
19. And this is another Gardasil story. Yes. All right. Let's first of all, tell everybody who you are.
00:36:05:03 - 00:36:06:49
I'm Jacqueline Donkin.
00:36:06:54 - 00:36:08:28
Jacqueline.
00:36:08:33 - 00:36:12:10
And I'm her mother, Christine. Yeah.
00:36:12:15 - 00:36:15:51
Hi. Let's try not to touch her up.
00:36:15:56 - 00:36:33:15
So, Boy, I don't even know where to start. Jacqueline was a dancer. Actually, that's some pictures today. So you can see the before and after. So this was Jackie when she was the,
00:36:33:20 - 00:36:35:39
This is this is modern dancer.
00:36:35:44 - 00:36:37:36
All kinds I did everything.
00:36:37:39 - 00:36:47:55
Yeah. Ballet? Yeah. She taught to little girls. She was. She also, was a singer and an actress.
00:36:48:00 - 00:36:49:53
That is so cool. You can hear.
00:36:50:00 - 00:36:54:33
That. That this is how she spends most of her days now.
00:36:54:38 - 00:36:56:15
So you bedridden?
00:36:56:19 - 00:37:24:51
Yeah. She's, susceptible to, a lot of things. So if somebody has a cold, she might get pneumonia. She gets very, very sick being around, you know, other kids. So she can't be in environments where there's a lot of people. Because our immune system's so worn down.
00:37:24:56 - 00:37:28:22
You can't on TV. I don't know.
00:37:28:27 - 00:37:30:26
You know, no. One of this one heart.
00:37:30:31 - 00:37:33:28
Yeah. She misses it a lot. She was,
00:37:33:33 - 00:37:34:47
She's only friends.
00:37:34:52 - 00:37:35:15
Yes.
00:37:35:21 - 00:37:37:18
She used to dance with.
00:37:37:23 - 00:37:50:25
I was on a team, a travel team. So we would go and compete every weekend, and I was dancing around. I go to school, then I go to dance at 2:00, and then I dance until 10:00 at night. Every single day. Yeah.
00:37:50:30 - 00:38:13:34
Yeah. She was very, very busy. She was a straight-A student. She had a ton of friends. She was very, very well liked. This was after they took all the blood to figure out what was wrong with her. She passed out from that. And, this was after a simple laparoscopy. She had a ovarian cyst that had to be removed, and her pain was off.
00:38:13:34 - 00:38:14:22
To the Gardasil.
00:38:14:33 - 00:38:16:36
Yes, actually, the Gardasil and her.
00:38:16:41 - 00:38:21:31
How many times are we hearing about these variances? Yeah.
00:38:21:36 - 00:38:29:34
She'd never had any before. Beforehand. And, that was a simple. You can. You can. Yeah.
00:38:29:39 - 00:38:30:24
I'll get back.
00:38:30:29 - 00:38:45:17
That's fine. So she I mean, she was doing really well in school, and she was really popular, and she actually had, audition with Disney, and they wanted to fire out to California, and she was. I mean, she had a very promising future. And.
00:38:45:22 - 00:38:47:52
Why Disney wants to fire Apple.
00:38:47:57 - 00:38:58:37
They were doing casting for different shows and stuff, and they I was in the top 13 out of everyone in the country, but, I wasn't able to go. I, I don't do any. And you have.
00:38:58:37 - 00:39:00:10
To be like a Disney princess.
00:39:00:15 - 00:39:01:14
I think. Yeah.
00:39:01:16 - 00:39:03:43
Oh, my gosh, you have no idea how much that means to her because she.
00:39:03:51 - 00:39:06:24
I love Disney princess.
00:39:06:29 - 00:39:13:48
Yeah. When you come to our summit, you can be the Disney okay for that? Yeah. There's a lot of children who don't want that photograph taken.
00:39:13:59 - 00:39:16:05
Yeah. I'm okay with that.
00:39:16:07 - 00:39:17:48
Yeah, I get that.
00:39:17:53 - 00:39:41:31
So, when she was, this happened in 2011, she had around middle school, she started to get a lot of strep throat, and, she'd always had straw, but it was just more cases of it more frequent. And she started to get tonsil stones. Her, tonsils actually started to form stones. And, from all the scarring she had from the strap, and she was getting sick.
00:39:41:31 - 00:39:53:00
And so we went to the, two pediatrician and a routine visit. And the pediatrician said, are you going to get the Gardasil vaccine today? And I said,
00:39:53:04 - 00:39:54:55
I know this is the first one to.
00:39:55:00 - 00:39:55:39
My very first.
00:39:55:39 - 00:39:59:52
She was sick again. Another person that was just like.
00:39:59:57 - 00:40:23:50
Yeah. And so I said, no, because, about a month or so before that, she had under her knee or something and dance and had gone to a physical therapist who had said, you know, have you, gotten the Gardasil vaccine yet? And I said, no, she hasn't had it. And he says, well, I'm seeing a lot of girls that are coming in with, injuries from the Gardasil vaccine.
00:40:23:55 - 00:40:43:09
And he said, please do your research on it. So when the doctor asked whether or not she would have the Gardasil vaccine, I said, no, we'd like to take some time to research it while she kept going back in for strap or tonsil stones. And the doctor, probably 5 or 6 times, kept asking about whether or not we were going to get this shot.
00:40:43:09 - 00:41:03:28
And I kept saying, now, I still haven't done my research. One of those times, however, I was not able to make the appointment and my husband took her and, the doctor asked and my husband said, you know, I'd rather wait for my wife. And the doctor said to my husband, oh, so you want your daughter to get cancer?
00:41:03:33 - 00:41:39:55
And, he loves her so it's it's a decision that, As a parent, you can't forgive yourself for. We had no idea. We had no idea. So she got the vaccine, and, instantly she had some dizziness. She was tired. Her arm hurt a little bit, but no doctor had mentioned that it could possibly be from the Gardasil vaccine.
00:41:40:00 - 00:42:12:17
And a month later, she had a tonsillectomy for the tonsils. And when she had the tonsillectomy and she came out from that tonsillectomy, her anxiety was so bad she had to sleep with me. She had night terrors and couldn't sleep at night. She, took three months to heal from a tonsillectomy. That should take about three weeks to heal from, and nobody could figure out why it was taking so long and why it was so hard for her.
00:42:12:22 - 00:42:28:05
So then we started seeing doctors because she couldn't go back to school. This child who couldn't wait to go to school, and who was popular and well liked by teachers, couldn't go to school and was in pain and didn't feel well and wasn't healing.
00:42:28:05 - 00:42:31:40
And we used did have to stop dancing at that point. That's.
00:42:31:45 - 00:42:59:06
Yeah. Oh because really hard. Yeah. And I got a lot of criticism from my friends, people like my principal teachers, my dance team. Everybody would like they would say I was faking and I didn't know what was happening to me, but I knew that something was wrong. And I've never been in that type of state. I'm always like, wanting to be social and you know, I love dancing.
00:42:59:06 - 00:43:16:33
I would never want to give up dancing ever. And I could not do anything. I couldn't even go to the grocery store. So it was difficult to have everyone kind of attacking me and telling me that it was all me when I didn't want this. This was not the way I wanted to live my life.
00:43:16:37 - 00:43:26:45
This is this is incredible to me. How friends and family and so-called loved people are dance teachers. What if it may be time.
00:43:26:49 - 00:43:31:02
To turn on the fact? Yeah, for forgot.
00:43:31:07 - 00:43:48:58
Because I don't think anybody knew and you know, it was like like I couldn't even understand like why aren't you going to school. Why aren't you going to school. Like, is there something wrong that you don't want to like. Why can't you go to school like I didn't understand, my husband didn't understand. And we started getting pressure, actually, from the school.
00:43:49:03 - 00:44:10:33
They would call us and say, why is your daughter not here? So we started seeing, looking for help because she was in a really bad state. She would have these rages, that were not like her at all. And, I don't know if it's okay with you that I share about. Okay. So she started self-harming, which she had never done before.
00:44:10:37 - 00:44:16:21
At one point, she had cut her arm 32 times, and I had no idea what was happening to my child.
00:44:16:21 - 00:44:19:23
I what what was what what was making you do that?
00:44:19:32 - 00:44:42:18
I had so much anxiety and so much I was so deeply depressed. Like that time. When I think back to it, it just feels dark. I could not I would never left my room talking to people like I was just like out of it. I felt completely out of it. And the only way that I could cope with the amount of anxiety and stress and depression was to cut.
00:44:42:18 - 00:44:55:34
And it was like it was. It would relieve some of that. I could I felt like I could breathe a little bit, but these it would come on so strong. That's the only way that I could handle it. Were.
00:44:55:34 - 00:44:58:03
You did they have they put you on any psychotropic drugs?
00:44:58:03 - 00:45:00:45
Yeah. Yes. Because we initially they.
00:45:00:47 - 00:45:06:00
Had been one of the problems, without a doubt. Yeah. We've seen the side effects of these drugs I.
00:45:06:00 - 00:45:32:12
Yeah. And so actually what ended up happening was for two years they had her on those drugs, and, she wasn't doing better. She wasn't getting better. And so, finally, her psychiatrist said, you know, she's not getting better. There's something else going on here. I believe. And around that time, actually, we didn't know this until we started looking and piecing this together.
00:45:32:12 - 00:45:41:13
I mean, I want you to understand that for us, this is all just come to light in the last month. We're just now finally realizing that it's guarded, so.
00:45:41:19 - 00:45:44:10
And why is that? Why have you noticed?
00:45:44:15 - 00:46:11:10
Because the CDC tells you that vaccines are safe. And do you believe it? You believe that that's true? The doctors never mentioned Gardasil. They never mentioned that. That would be what could harm my daughter. Nobody ever said this is what's taking your daughter's livelihood away. This is why she can't dance. This is why she can't go to school.
00:46:11:10 - 00:46:39:13
Nobody ever said that to us. And so when you don't know that, that's what's happening. You're lost. So we saw these doctors and she went through, you know, psychiatric treatment and, we did these things and she wasn't getting better. And in 2013, and we just found out that she had the second shot. I don't remember ever agreeing to it, but they gave her a second Gardasil shot, and that's when the wheels fell off.
00:46:39:26 - 00:46:40:25
When did that happen?
00:46:40:37 - 00:46:44:37
That was in 2013. That was, around her junior year.
00:46:44:51 - 00:46:46:45
And so you've only ever had two. Yes.
00:46:46:45 - 00:46:51:24
Yes, yes. Because I think she had the third. She probably would be in a wheelchair.
00:46:51:24 - 00:47:09:42
That doctor that I had every single time I went in, she was like practically shoving it down my throat. She was like, you have to do it. And I'd be alone with her. And she would tell me, like to make me feel guilty, as if my decision. And, you know, I was young, I didn't know anything about this.
00:47:09:42 - 00:47:18:22
So I just was like, okay. And just agreed to it. And the way that she handled that is disgusting to me at this point.
00:47:18:24 - 00:47:28:28
Now, is this doctor still practicing? Yes. That's all the time. Yeah. Right. I would you you need to report these doctors for medical. Yeah, yeah. For bullying medical.
00:47:28:28 - 00:47:30:12
Magazine. Right.
00:47:30:16 - 00:47:40:11
You see that? That must be something you do. Because my fear is these doctors 17 and these doctors are still practicing and still hurting people. Yeah, yeah.
00:47:40:16 - 00:47:58:18
So she had the second shot and, almost instantly, within a week or so, she started having random shocks all over her body, electric shocks. And, we actually took her to the hospital, and they were asking us.
00:47:58:18 - 00:48:18:40
They took me separately. The nurse took me, walked me around, and she was like, are you feeling depressed? How's school going? Are you is your family close to you? And was giving me a full psych evaluation when I came in for pain that I was having, and they ended up just sending me home and I didn't get any help at all.
00:48:18:45 - 00:48:35:00
And that's something that I deal with all the time, is, you know, if you go to the emergency room or regular doctors, they just treat you like it's all in your head. And that's horrific. When you are suffering, it's the worst thing ever.
00:48:35:04 - 00:48:55:12
So they they didn't have a diagnosis. They sent her home, and she continued to have these socks. She would get a cold, hard muscles. Her muscles would get so hard. And I would try to massage them and rub them out, but her limbs would turn blue. She her legs in particular, hurt really, really bad.
00:48:55:12 - 00:49:19:04
Her hips and her knee joints were very, very painful. Her hands would turn black, from loss of circulation. She would have rib cage that would stick out. You could see the bone sticking out. There's costal dryness. And it's it was an effect of what was happening in her body. She would it would happen in her back as well.
00:49:19:09 - 00:49:39:46
And she would get chest pain, like really bad heart pain. She would wake up at night with night terrors and she would have drenching horrific sweats. She would get really, really bad migraines and dizzy spells and fatigue that was so severe that she couldn't even get out of bed that day. Nausea.
00:49:39:51 - 00:49:40:44
Yeah.
00:49:40:49 - 00:49:46:30
Eating wasn't eating. She doesn't eat. She eats probably three different things, and that's it.
00:49:46:30 - 00:49:56:37
And, why? What happened to what makes you not want. So if I offered you a cookie, what would you say? What would your body say?
00:49:56:42 - 00:50:23:57
I just never have an appetite. I never feel, I mean, I don't feel hungry, like I want to eat something. I feel the hollow. That's kind of of like. Oh, I haven't eaten in forever, but, like, I don't actually want to eat anything, and, like, textures are weird for me. But there will be, like, 2 or 3 days to go by, and I'll have, like, a snack or something, or it has to be a craving that I have, and then I eat a lot of that.
00:50:24:02 - 00:50:40:43
But on a day to day basis, like meals, I don't really I probably dinner's my biggest meal. And it's scary for me because I'm like, what is going on here? I know that I should be eating, but like, I'm just never hungry. So it's hard.
00:50:40:43 - 00:51:00:42
For us as a family to at meal time because, you know, we make meal and we sit down together as a family, but we always have to make something different for Jacqueline, or accept the fact that maybe tonight she can't eat. And that's really, really difficult. So we were at a loss and we didn't know what to do.
00:51:00:42 - 00:51:06:58
And nobody had mentioned the Gardasil shot. And so we, the psychiatrist said, you know, I don't think this is psychiatric.
00:51:07:03 - 00:51:08:48
Oh, please stay away from psychiatry.
00:51:08:55 - 00:51:56:35
I know we we do you have plans? Yeah. No, no. So we we stopped going that route and I started looking up information again, never thinking about Gardasil. And, we heard about something called pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorders associated with strep. In short, that's Pandas or Pans. And, it was initially mentioned to us by her counselor. And, a lot of times kids with strep, the strap actually crosses the blood brain barrier and it affects the brain and can cause symptoms like anxiety and, you know, night terrors and some of the things that she had.
00:51:56:35 - 00:52:26:59
But it didn't explain the physical symptoms that she was having. So from that standpoint, they said, yeah, you know, maybe she has pandas and possibly she's had it probably even since the time she was a kid. So now we look back knowing what we know now, and we believe that the Gardasil vaccine just took that mild pandas that we probably never would have known that she had, and just mutated it in a way that, you know, those anxiety and those symptoms that she was having just kind of really went crazy.
00:52:27:04 - 00:52:50:54
After we found out about the pandas, she was diagnosed with chronic Lyme. So now we found out that she has chronic Lyme disease. She has autonomic dysfunction. So, she's having those sweats and the cardiac issues, and, she has severe pain. She's got the ovarian cysts now that she never had before. Extremely painful periods.
00:52:50:58 - 00:53:13:34
The laparoscopy that she had to remove one of her cysts, they were ready to just send her home. Her pain was so severe, she couldn't walk. Her bottom jaw would tremor. And you talk about ignoring something that is blatantly in front of you by a medical community. They literally looked at her and said, oh, she she's she'll be fine.
00:53:13:34 - 00:53:35:01
Just send her home. And we took her home and my child screamed in pain for almost two days, and we finally took her back into the emergency room. And the emergency room doctor said that obviously she was in excruciating pain. She ended up in the hospital for another week on, Dilaudid and drips because the pain was so severe.
00:53:35:06 - 00:54:01:49
And so that's what the Gardasil vaccine has done. Now, something simple that a laparoscopy that you and I might get and heal from and be able to walk out of the hospital with. Now for Jacqueline, her pain signals are that small fiber neuropathy that she's developed because of this Gardasil vaccine. Her pain signals are you know, I could scratch her and her skin will turn blue.
00:54:01:54 - 00:54:11:46
Because her body reacts to it differently now, and she's just very sick, and she's lost friends. She only knows one other person here in Columbus anymore.
00:54:11:46 - 00:54:12:48
Oh.
00:54:12:52 - 00:54:15:31
My. Yeah, I know, but it's.
00:54:15:31 - 00:54:17:19
Been hard going to be alone again.
00:54:17:24 - 00:54:40:52
She's 19. She's never driver's license. You know, she can't go to college. She had to be homeschooled in high school. Her old high school, had kept her from going to prom two years in a row. I mean, she really she went through it, and then, because she was sick and people didn't understand why somebody who's as beautiful as she is and looks as normal as she did, it does.
00:54:40:52 - 00:54:44:12
Could be so sick. Thank you. Yeah. These,
00:54:44:17 - 00:54:52:47
I'm worried about your father. Your husband with the guilt that he must be carrying. And it's horrible. How. How's you doing?
00:54:52:52 - 00:54:56:00
Every time we talk about it, he cries.
00:54:56:04 - 00:54:59:31
It wasn't his fault. You truly wasn't. He was bullied.
00:54:59:31 - 00:55:23:58
Yeah, yeah. My. You know, I feel the pain that my parents feel all the time. My family feels. And that's hard because I don't want. I don't want what I'm going through to affect them. And to know that my dad feels that guilt. I tell my parents all the time. I don't blame either of them, ever. I blame the doctor that forced it on us.
00:55:23:58 - 00:55:45:36
And, you know, this was just a really hard card that I've been dealt. And my mom, I mean, she's my lifesaver. She's the one that, you know, found out that I blame and Panas and she's, you know, dedicated her life the past couple years to making me better and trying to figure out what's going on with me.
00:55:45:36 - 00:56:08:54
And I don't think I would be this far, in the healing process and everything without my mom. She's, She's changed my life, and I. I appreciate my family so much, but it definitely it hurt to me, that they've been damaged by this as well. So it's been hard all around for everyone.
00:56:08:58 - 00:56:27:25
Okay. These people want to show you how much they love you. Your time's up. Yeah. That. That speaks. You did that. You. You're a very good speaker. Thank you. So. So I'm looking forward to having a this is this is love for you guys. So the heart is on the right. Yeah. They love you. Because you know what?
00:56:27:30 - 00:56:34:56
They they can't bear to see this that's happened to you. You know that it's injured you and hurt you and your family. That love is for you as well, mama.
00:56:35:01 - 00:56:38:41
Oh, that means so much. Yes. Thank you.
00:56:38:46 - 00:56:57:28
It's like. It's like a veil has been finally lifted. And, you know, even with pandas, like, Jacqueline was like, it doesn't feel right. And now she feels like she's a part of this community. And it all finally makes sense. And she, you know, she now goes, okay, like I, I have other there's other people like me and I sit in silence.
00:56:57:33 - 00:56:59:39
Oh amazing. Thank you.
00:56:59:45 - 00:57:05:44
Family. That's right. We are family guys. You're absolutely right. Did you find the bus right?
00:57:05:44 - 00:57:06:58
Yeah. Not. Yeah.
00:57:07:03 - 00:57:12:25
Oh, go and do the questions second. Okay. Let's see guys they love you know, for drink.
00:57:12:29 - 00:57:35:17
You guys. Thank you so much.
00:57:35:22 - 00:57:36:51
Dr. Paul Thomas
I look forward to running
00:57:36:58 - 00:58:01:16
Dr. Paul Thomas
together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
00:58:01:22 - 00:58:02:09
Dr. Paul Thomas
I'm Dr. Paul.
0 Comments