- Published on
Show 184 Transcripts
- Author
-
-
- Name
- Posts
- Posts
-
PDF:
Loading PDF...
Text:
With the Wind with Dr. Paul – Show 184: Pediatric Perspectives: What is the 1986 Act with Theresa Wrangham
Speaker's speaking time
00:00:40:28 - 00:01:05:39
Dr. Paul
VAX facts this book hits bookstores December 10th. You can get a copy now by going to VAX Facts book.com, where you can get a signed author's copy, where you can order an e-book, or you can also preorder the book if you are seeing this message before December 10th. You can also order this book at any bookseller, any bookstore, wherever books are sold, and preorder your copy.
00:01:05:53 - 00:01:16:16
Dr. Paul
Get this book for your loved ones, for your family, for yourself, and let's get healthy.
00:01:16:16 - 00:01:26:48
Unknown
Do. You.
00:01:26:53 - 00:01:35:10
Unknown
Know.
00:01:35:19 - 00:01:54:49
Dr. Paul
Good morning. PhD. Welcome to Pediatric Perspectives, where we are looking at children's health challenges from a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking and is not afraid to bring you the honest truth. I'm your host, Doctor Paul, and today it is my honor to bring back Theresa Wrangham. Thank you for joining us today.
00:01:54:54 - 00:01:58:22
Theresa Wrangham
Oh, so happy to be here. Doctor Powell, thanks for having me back.
00:01:58:27 - 00:02:23:04
Dr. Paul
Thank you. You have such a wealth of experience in the area of vaccines. You're the executive director of NVC, the national vaccine Information Center, which, by the way, is where I send parents anytime they ask about, you know, what are the state laws with regards to vaccine exemptions? You guys cover that so beautifully that you stay up to date, but you've been doing that since 2010.
00:02:23:04 - 00:02:59:21
Dr. Paul
I believe you were a reviewer of protocols for the Cochrane Collaborative. You've been involved with CDC's public engagement for pandemic H1n1 meningococcal vaccines and Colorado's public engagement on personal belief exemptions and meningococcal vaccines. You've worked for the advisory committee or presented to the Advisory Committee on Childhood Vaccines, and presented NVC during CDC s vaccine information. This revision consultations, if you're watching this, was this thing, this little handout.
00:02:59:22 - 00:03:26:45
Dr. Paul
As a pediatrician, when I was practicing, we would give to the patients and that was the extent of their vaccine education in most pediatric practices. It's something else. In 2021, you co-founded the Autism Society for Boulder County in Colorado. You've served as board of directors for Autism Society of Colorado and Safe Minds. You've been on the advisory board for US autism.
00:03:26:49 - 00:03:49:04
Dr. Paul
Oh my gosh, there's too much. We don't have enough time to cover all your experience in this area. I wanted to focus today on the 1986 Childhood Immunization Act. I wonder if you could start by just explaining to our audience, what is the 1986 Childhood Childhood Immunization Act, and why is the childhood vaccination schedule mentioned in that act?
00:03:49:09 - 00:04:34:18
Theresa Wrangham
Okay, sure. Well, the 1986 act was about, a fair way to compensate the vaccine injured children who were, injured by childhood vaccines. And it really started in, 1982, I believe, when the, DPT vaccine Roulette documentary came out. That's how MBA six co-founders actually met each other. And what that documentary was about was, vaccine injuries, that were caused as a result of wholesale pertussis, DPT vaccine and that the harms of that vaccine and how reactive it was, was known for over 40 years in the medical literature at 1982.
00:04:34:23 - 00:04:56:54
Theresa Wrangham
So it was the work of our co-founders, with Congress, to help draft and pass some of the portions of the 1986 act. And some of what spurred that was the lack of informed consent parents were receiving, for instance. Doctor Paul, you brought up a great point about the this the vaccine information statements that comes out of this act.
00:04:56:58 - 00:05:20:54
Theresa Wrangham
And, the act was amended. It used to be so much more than the one page you get now. And it went over like the risks of disease. It gave you the background on the disease. So, the law has changed over time, but the intent of the law was to compensate those who were injured by vaccines, children, because that was what was happening at the time.
00:05:20:58 - 00:05:45:14
Theresa Wrangham
There were school mandates. So children are being harmed. Parents were settling on courtroom steps for pennies, against vaccine manufacturers, and they weren't getting what they needed. And there was great pushback from the industry. So this was an attempt for a no fault compensation system. It put in an ongoing research mandate that's required vaccine informing, that's required reporting, that's required.
00:05:45:14 - 00:06:10:15
Theresa Wrangham
Bears comes from the act. So the act is a lot larger than I think a lot of people realize. And it's changed over time quite a bit. It's been gutted by, previous, secretaries of health. They took out a lot of the vaccine informed consent protections that were in the act, and, have made it harder for children to get compensation today.
00:06:10:19 - 00:06:28:38
Theresa Wrangham
The reason the childhood, vaccines were mentioned is for that time frame, there was only the childhood schedule. There wasn't an adult schedule. There wasn't a schedule for pregnant women. So that's why the focus of that act is on childhood vaccines.
00:06:28:43 - 00:06:29:13
Dr. Paul
Yeah, I'll.
00:06:29:13 - 00:06:31:28
Theresa Wrangham
Stop there so you can ask more questions.
00:06:31:33 - 00:06:56:01
Dr. Paul
I remember sitting together at a presentation where Barbara Loe Fisher, who was one of the founders of, Navic, shared the importance at that particular time. You you mentioned it, that, you know, kids who were injured were not really able to stand up against the financial resources that the pharmaceutical industry had at, at their hands. So the thought at that time was that this is a great act.
00:06:56:03 - 00:07:16:07
Dr. Paul
This will allow, compensate for the injured and, I think from what I've witnessed anyway, most injuries aren't even recognized anymore as vaccine related. So if you have a vaccine injury that's not on the recommended list, you're automatically excluded. Is that true?
00:07:16:12 - 00:07:41:32
Theresa Wrangham
Well not quite. So before the act was amended, it didn't. The program actually worked quite well. And there are reports, out of the Government Accountability Office around that because of the gutting of the law with, the little bit of liability, that parents could sue manufacturers taken away by the Supreme Court in 2011 and Bruce Letts versus Wyeth.
00:07:41:37 - 00:08:04:32
Theresa Wrangham
In the 90s, we saw, the vaccine information statement gutted. But progressively. What we've also seen to your point are changes in the vaccine injury table. If you get DPT vaccine, there is a list of associated injuries that are created and put on the table through a process. And part of that process comes out of the National Academies of Science.
00:08:04:32 - 00:08:34:54
Theresa Wrangham
The IOM reports, they're presented to DHHS and their advisory committees, and then it's recommended to add them to the table. DHHS, doesn't have to follow the recommendations of their advisory committee. They are simply advisory. They have control over definitions around encephalopathy, encephalitis, Ada. And that's where a lot of changes took place that, most kids are suffering these type of injuries.
00:08:34:54 - 00:09:10:00
Theresa Wrangham
And today, very few children get compensated. It's something like 90% adults now. And people are like, well, wait a minute. This act was the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. How did adults get compensated? Adults got compensated, get compensated mostly for flu shot, by the way, and up. But it happens because of how the law's worded. Any childhood vaccine that's routinely recommended, if it's routinely recommended to children and in adults harmed by it, that's what gets them in the door for compensation.
00:09:10:05 - 00:09:33:31
Theresa Wrangham
So, for example, shingles is not routinely recommended to children. So that's not covered by the vaccine. Now, to your point around, if it's not on the table, what it goes through, it's called litigate of risk. And it's become such a hostile environment that parents are actually having to go in and prove that the vaccine harmed them.
00:09:33:31 - 00:10:00:31
Theresa Wrangham
If that injury that they're petitioning on doesn't appear on that vaccine injury table, then they have to prove, causation essentially. And the problem with that is, is if you followed IOM reports like we have on vaccine safety, there are many gaps. There are many places where the IOM has simply said there is not enough quality science, or there's an absence of science that prevents us from making on causality.
00:10:00:31 - 00:10:27:49
Theresa Wrangham
Conclusion. Which means if you suffer from that entry, you're going to have to prove it because there's not enough science. So when we hear the science are settle, the science is. Then I would ask people to go read those reports and read the causality table and see how modern it is. Yeah, because that is what informs. That's a big piece of how that vaccine entry table is put together is around those reports.
00:10:27:54 - 00:10:54:56
Dr. Paul
The whole thing is stacked against patients who are injured by vaccines, mostly because I would tell you from my own research that I published the vaccine VAX study, and there are others now published. So this is not unique. There are many studies out there now, and they don't mainstream medicine, the pharmaceutical industry, vaccine manufacturers do not do proper studies that compare vaccinated to unvaccinated.
00:10:54:56 - 00:11:17:41
Dr. Paul
They don't do placebo controlled studies. They have very short studies. They don't look at all health outcomes. So we have really no information. It's this vacuum. And so therefore, I think when when you go to court, you can't prove it because the standard they're trying to hold you to is ridiculous in the absence of any proper studies.
00:11:17:46 - 00:11:41:57
Dr. Paul
But we now know very conclusively, I mean, my new book, Max Sachs, covers all of this in detail. Vaccinated children are much more likely to have neurodevelopmental disorders, learning disorders, autism. They're much more likely to have allergies and autoimmune issues, and they're much more likely to actually get more infections. So if you get a if you get your child vaccinated and they have one of these conditions that there are plenty of studies that show there's a correlation.
00:11:41:57 - 00:11:57:04
Dr. Paul
Yes. Correlation doesn't mean causation, but if you have multiple studies, and it's temporal, you get the vaccine and then you get the event. And there's a mechanism by which we can explain how it happened. Then that is causation.
00:11:57:09 - 00:12:22:06
Theresa Wrangham
But the system was supposed to also give the benefit of the doubt to the parents. And that's, that's really gone. And it's so unfortunate. It has become a stacked deck for a system that once worked because the court system didn't. It worked until Congress gave control to DHHS. You know, they can they can do pretty much what they want there until it's restored.
00:12:22:10 - 00:12:55:13
Theresa Wrangham
You know, we're not going to see improvements. And the I think what's sad is the tort system is probably even stronger now, but the likelihood of an individual, winning against pharma, you'd have to have very deep pockets. Don't think that they haven't prepped for such an occasion. So I think there's a need for the safety system, but it really needs to be restored to what worked, and give people options, you know, used to be able to have the option to sue, but you had to go through the system first.
00:12:55:18 - 00:13:12:12
Theresa Wrangham
And again, that was taken away by the Supreme Court in 2011. This is not a I don't think the current Supreme Court is any friendlier than it was in 2011. I don't think we'd see a different decisions for something be run up the flagpole on that.
00:13:12:16 - 00:13:24:53
Dr. Paul
So can you explain how a vaccine injury is added to the table. Because it seems like that table is so narrow. We should be expanding it to include all the actual injuries that are happening.
00:13:24:58 - 00:13:44:08
Theresa Wrangham
Well there are a couple of ways. For example a game bar syndrome was added to the table for flu shot. That was what was called an administrative ad and the Institute of Medicine most requested to go look at that condition for a flu shot. And they came back and said, yeah, we're not sure we have enough to say causation.
00:13:44:08 - 00:14:11:34
Theresa Wrangham
And basically what person said, was we're seeing a lot of this in the bicep, and we're going to recommend adding it. Those discussions happen at the Advisory Commission for Childhood Vaccines that is called the ACC. It's a federal advisory committee that advises us on adding, injuries to the table or making changes to the vaccine injury compensation program.
00:14:11:39 - 00:14:35:25
Theresa Wrangham
So they are the advisory committee around that. And so presentations are made to them based on either an administrative ad being recommended by federal agencies or, via a report from the National Academies of Sciences, now the National Academy of Medicine. But it used to be called the Institute of Medicine. And they've done over 25 years of reports.
00:14:35:30 - 00:14:58:54
Theresa Wrangham
So they examine the report when it comes in. There's a presentation made on here where here's what we were asked to look at. Here's what we found in terms of causation and what we found as inadequate meaning. Again, not enough science to tell us. And then there are some rejections where they say the science favors rejection or this is an out and out rejection.
00:14:58:59 - 00:15:31:06
Theresa Wrangham
Once that's done, the ACC will make a recommendation to the secretary of additions to the table. But again, these aren't binding. The Secretary can just say no, and not accept them. And again, the Secretary has control over and his delegates. If he delegates to the authority, to change the definitions within the table. And that has happened with regard to encephalopathy and stuff like this.
00:15:31:10 - 00:15:34:14
Dr. Paul
So who's in that secretary position lately?
00:15:34:25 - 00:15:40:45
Theresa Wrangham
Robert F Kennedy Jr, as, being forward for the DHHS secretary.
00:15:40:50 - 00:15:43:47
Dr. Paul
Gotcha. So that's the that's the position you're talking about?
00:15:43:52 - 00:15:48:35
Theresa Wrangham
Yes. The Department of Health and Human Services oversees.
00:15:48:40 - 00:15:49:56
Dr. Paul
That.
00:15:50:01 - 00:15:52:31
Theresa Wrangham
Herself falls under them. So okay.
00:15:52:36 - 00:16:01:56
Dr. Paul
That's a super important position isn't it? I mean, that's that individual can basically do whatever they want. Seems to me.
00:16:02:01 - 00:16:22:09
Theresa Wrangham
Well, because the law was amended, that's not how the law was. Originally. Congress gave DHHS that authority, the original law. Congress got to chime in. There had to be, a congressional piece to that. And that disappeared. So now now it's.
00:16:22:14 - 00:16:23:07
Dr. Paul
Fast.
00:16:23:12 - 00:16:25:34
Theresa Wrangham
And balance. Is there any more on that?
00:16:25:46 - 00:16:48:08
Dr. Paul
That is fascinating. So, you know, knowing how Congress and our government is so influenced by pharma and money. So they did that to have total control, but that could just end up burning them in a sense. If you put somebody who's ethical and honest and really understands the science in that powerful position.
00:16:48:13 - 00:17:10:19
Theresa Wrangham
Sure. As the law stands now, the Secretary of Health, we have a great deal of, power to implement change. I, I would say that you can't do that overnight. There's administrative requirements. There are requirements within the law in terms of public notice. Some of that authority has been delegated down. And I'm not sure how you unwind that.
00:17:10:19 - 00:17:51:11
Theresa Wrangham
And I'm an attorney, but I don't think it's an overnight thing that can be done. But certainly, the oversight is there. And the statute is worded where it's the Secretary's responsibility. But even if it were to go back to Congress, the question would then become, how are pharma lobbyists influencing Congress on those very same matters? You know, when when Barbara, Kathy and Jeff, you know, sat down with Waxman and Kennedy to help, you know, draft some of this, they did their very best from the standpoint of parents of vaccine injured children to create a system that there were going to be checks and balances, that parents would be given a fair shake.
00:17:51:11 - 00:18:15:16
Theresa Wrangham
Again, it worked initially, but you know, it's only as good as the weakest link. And if if our federal agencies are captured and and that agency holds up oversight, you've got a problem. If we've got, congressmen who are, you know, getting a lot of money from pharma, it influences their vote. You can have the same thing happen.
00:18:15:16 - 00:18:35:24
Theresa Wrangham
Even it's the law is restored. So I think really it's upon the citizen to be pretty educated and be a, solid constituent. Because if you restore the law, you have more power. If it goes, if you restore the law and Congress has their piece, these are people we vote in. We don't vote in the Secretary of health, you know.
00:18:35:24 - 00:18:45:49
Theresa Wrangham
So I think that was some of the the logic that was applied initially. And unfortunately the law was amended and that check and balance is no longer available.
00:18:45:54 - 00:19:17:01
Dr. Paul
Okay. I want to go back to the viewers because as a pediatrician, I'm retired now. But pediatricians make a lot of money off of vaccines. And one of the sources of income is that you have provided information. And so the assumption is, well, my pediatrician gave me the pros and the cons, and I what I understand, because I've been a pediatrician is that the more you know about the actual risks of vaccines, to share them honestly requires a lot of time.
00:19:17:06 - 00:19:51:55
Dr. Paul
And nobody has that kind of time. So what pediatricians do is they shortcut to this, this vaccine information sheet that magnifies the risks of the diseases and minimizes the risk of the vaccines. It's not a fair representation of what the true risks are. And therefore everybody going to their pediatrician. And sadly, you know, 90 plus percent of people still see pediatricians, I think, for their pediatric care, they're actually getting false or at least curated information that I think is sadly lacking.
00:19:51:56 - 00:20:02:48
Dr. Paul
I'm wondering what can be done, if anything, to rectify what's happening in reality. That that visit sheet. Here you go. Here's your information.
00:20:02:53 - 00:20:28:05
Theresa Wrangham
Well, again, that was created under the 1986 act and originally, this was about 8 or 9 pages. And it didn't it wasn't today, I would call it a marketing piece. I think it opens in the first section saying why you should vaccinate. That's not information. That's it. That's that's telemarketing. That there's agenda, you know, this is where this is going.
00:20:28:05 - 00:20:51:33
Theresa Wrangham
We want you to vaccinate. The purpose of the this originally was, was to inform the parent. Now it doesn't need an informed consent, ethic, but what it was supposed to do is inform the parents so that there could be dialog, or so the parent could go out and get more information because it talked about the frequency and severity of complications with a disease.
00:20:51:38 - 00:21:09:02
Theresa Wrangham
You know, what the disease looked like, symptoms, so on. And so forth. And then it went through that same sort of thing for the vaccine, what's known, what's not known. That that no longer happens. The this, part of the law was amended, and now it only talks about the benefits and risks of the vaccine.
00:21:09:02 - 00:21:50:49
Theresa Wrangham
There's nothing about the disease. The one thing that's in the law, however, that remained is the secretary of health, the, you know, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The secretary can add in other things as as the Secretary sees fit. So the Secretary, while that no longer exists in the law to talk about frequency and severity of complications from, the disease and just general information about the disease, the secretary can say, look, we're putting it in, so that that is something that that could be done, that this could be restored without, having to go through, congressional action.
00:21:50:49 - 00:22:09:27
Theresa Wrangham
It could be done at an agency level. However, bear in mind, as an administration changes, that can be walked back as well. So I would say that's the good news about the this is that, it's still able to be changed without having to go through a statutory change.
00:22:09:36 - 00:22:19:56
Dr. Paul
I'm really happy to hear that because I just it's time parents need to be getting all the information, not just this marketing pieces you call it, which is exactly what it was.
00:22:20:01 - 00:22:43:01
Theresa Wrangham
I ask a question just as a retired pediatrician, because we get lots of stars at NBC about I didn't get my vest. My daughter wouldn't talk to me. I've been banned from the practice. They get kicked out for even asking a question. Yeah, but I have heard in monitoring federal advisory committees how much how much education did you get on vaccines when you were in school?
00:22:43:01 - 00:22:44:14
Theresa Wrangham
I'm just curious.
00:22:44:19 - 00:22:45:40
Dr. Paul
Oh, none.
00:22:45:45 - 00:23:01:19
Theresa Wrangham
So you weren't really. And see, this is what I think part of the problem is this. Yeah, the parents have got questions and and the Institute of Medicine actually came out with a report saying there's not a lot for doctors to point to on. This is the best schedule. They're also schedules around.
00:23:01:21 - 00:23:10:15
Dr. Paul
So all we were taught was this is the schedule. And this is the best way to keep children safe from the communicable diseases, blah, blah, blah.
00:23:10:19 - 00:23:17:14
Theresa Wrangham
And that's a good question for parents to start with. Tell me. Tell me what you've read. How much background do you have?
00:23:17:19 - 00:23:37:37
Dr. Paul
Right, right. Well, but when I was a pediatrician, I'll tell you my answer, because, you know, I don't want to look like I'm an idiot. I'll say, oh, this is my whole life. I do all I read about vaccines every day. I mean, it's sort of true, but I'm reading junk science about vaccines every day. I'm not really, like, ask me what's in the vaccine.
00:23:37:37 - 00:23:55:39
Dr. Paul
I wouldn't know. I mean, I, I have a pretty good sense now, but back then I didn't know what was in the vaccines. Ask me what? Yeah. What side effects? They're safe. 1 in 1,000,000. You know, I would I would repeat what I was taught, which was nonsense. I just want to highlight and have you speak on this.
00:23:55:39 - 00:24:16:04
Dr. Paul
It is a state by state thing. And NVC has done such a great job of putting together the information for people to easily access, getting an exemption, maybe just talk to what an exemption is, where where someone can go to get the details of how to get an exemption and what it means in terms of your ability to say yes or no to vaccines.
00:24:16:09 - 00:24:36:35
Theresa Wrangham
Well, as you pointed out, vaccine exemption, we're usually talking about school children. We keep that information on our website. You can go to our website and go under our state pages. Keep a map that we're kind of famous for. And you can see what, what the vaccine requirement laws are in your state, as well as what exemptions are offered.
00:24:36:40 - 00:25:05:06
Theresa Wrangham
Some things to be aware of. You need to understand that sometimes the word school, like I lived in Colorado, school covered school was defined as also daycare. Okay. It it covered churches, private schools and public schools. So it's important to not just look at, okay, there's an exemption for, kindergarten, you know. Well, are you going to a private kindergarten in a church?
00:25:05:06 - 00:25:29:09
Theresa Wrangham
Does your state law cover that? So I really encourage you to to visit our website and ask a lot of questions. We're not always able to get all the detail. We would like that we try to make it available and then provide links where you can get more information. Always ask for the statute if you feel like you're being in front by, an administrative official, because we've seen that happen, too.
00:25:29:13 - 00:26:11:26
Theresa Wrangham
And we've sent people the law and they print it out and take it into their school. But, when you take an exemption, there are a couple different kinds. There's medical exemptions and those are written by doctors. And every state, has a medical exemption. However, some states, like California and New York have made it really hard for doctors to feel, good about it, showing them, we've had calls from people who have had medical exemptions in place for years, and their doctors are now afraid to issue them for legitimate, medical reasons because they're seeing doctors, licenses pulled, you know, by their state boards.
00:26:11:26 - 00:26:51:35
Theresa Wrangham
So it's getting harder and harder to get a medical exemption because the criteria for the CDC is getting narrower. But there's also that pressure being put on state boards. Then you have personal conscientious belief exemptions, that aren't necessarily religious, but more around your personal belief systems. And then you have religious exemptions. Now, when you take an exemption, something to be aware of that's very common in the law is if there's an outbreak of a disease for which you've taken an exemption for that vaccine, you may have a child at home and then tell, they say the outbreak is over and you can return.
00:26:51:40 - 00:27:14:24
Theresa Wrangham
That's what you're agreeing to, okay, a lot of people don't realize that's the deal you're making. You take an exemption. But that's a very common thing. With Covid, we saw some employer mandates. However, we saw, title seven under the Civil Rights Act come in and many people were wrongfully terminated who are now being made whole. And that process takes time.
00:27:14:24 - 00:27:39:11
Theresa Wrangham
So we'll have to see how that works out. The big push on getting adults to comply is to get employers to mandate it. And, employers were really pressured during Covid 19 to do that. And a lot of that backfired. So it'll be interesting. There's a right and a wrong way to do it. And, a lot of employers didn't get it right.
00:27:39:11 - 00:27:49:10
Theresa Wrangham
So they're they're paying a price now. But I think the question should become, should your employer be asking you to take a health care measure?
00:27:49:21 - 00:28:17:17
Dr. Paul
So what I experienced in Oregon has philosophical and religious exemptions. And yet the schools will send letters out for exclusion to every parent. And the parents are not told in those letters that they have the right to an exemption. You're told you have to have your child vaccinated or they can't attend school. So they rush into their pediatric offices, they're all caught up with all their vaccines, and they were absolutely unaware that they had the right to get an exemption.
00:28:17:31 - 00:28:19:30
Dr. Paul
And usually it's not that difficult to do it.
00:28:19:30 - 00:28:40:11
Theresa Wrangham
Colorado, because of what you're saying. There were parents who got together and that's required in the state of Colorado and probably other states. You cannot railroad a parent like that. You have to tell them. So that would be a really good point for parents to proceed from an advocacy level. And as you know, we have the advocacy portal where people can see that vaccine related legislation.
00:28:40:12 - 00:28:49:34
Theresa Wrangham
We're seeing lots of good stuff being rolled out, and we need people supporting it and educating themselves because legislators are opening up.
00:28:49:39 - 00:28:56:51
Dr. Paul
There you do have you do have, that information on your website as well about pending legislation, which I think that's incredible.
00:28:56:57 - 00:29:16:09
Theresa Wrangham
I get parents writing us saying, I'm being told this, but my friend says that and we send them their state page and we explain it and say, you know, they don't have to tell you. They should tell you, but you do have the right and here's the law. Take it in and ask for the exemption form, or you can get it from our side if the state has an official one.
00:29:16:14 - 00:29:27:44
Theresa Wrangham
But I've, I've sent letters to state health department saying your link to your exemption form is broken. Where should I send parents queries to? And then I get a link because they don't want to be.
00:29:27:49 - 00:29:30:51
Dr. Paul
They don't want to make those phone calls.
00:29:30:56 - 00:29:34:55
Theresa Wrangham
So we do our best to get that information out.
00:29:35:00 - 00:29:59:21
Dr. Paul
I want to touch on another thing that I think NVC has done a better job than anybody. I know kids are learning about vaccines in schools, and as a parent, I didn't know that. I didn't know that my children were being indoctrinated about, oh, how wonderful and amazing vaccines are and never told a thing about any dangers. What can parents do to figure out what, if anything, is being taught in the schools?
00:29:59:26 - 00:30:17:17
Theresa Wrangham
Well, I did, I think you've got a resource link that I sent to our FAQ, use our frequently asked questions. And you do have rights under the law to know what's being taught in the school. The few ready made lesson plans I've seen don't cover the Vaccine Entry Act, which to me is a part of history, right?
00:30:17:31 - 00:30:43:28
Theresa Wrangham
It's the first time our government said vaccines could harm an area. And we're going to help make you whole. So you're right there. It's scary. But you do have rights under federal laws, and we do have that on our website. And I provided some of that information. You have to request it, though. The law is such that if you don't request it, it's then you're not going to find out.
00:30:43:28 - 00:31:12:13
Theresa Wrangham
But you have a right to know what's being taught you have a right to know when vaccine clinics are going to be in your school, so that you can opt out. The this, even though this isn't a great, informative piece, the way the law is written, we're seeing a lot more in the way of minor consent, where you have these vaccine clinics that come through schools and pressure put on kids to consent without their parents knowledge.
00:31:12:18 - 00:31:34:45
Theresa Wrangham
The CDC actually had a web page. I think it's still up where they're saying, no, can't do that. Parents have to have the best before they're vaccinated, and it's not its parent or guardian. It is not, you know, an an older child under state law. It's a parent or guardian. So, you know, parents need to get informed.
00:31:34:52 - 00:31:53:10
Theresa Wrangham
They need to ask questions, you know, what are you teaching my child? If I didn't send you that specific. Thank you. I'll do it as soon as we're off here. But I did send the general link to our RFQ, and it does have a piece in there about vaccine curriculum. Yeah, they could be asking questions.
00:31:53:15 - 00:32:20:42
Dr. Paul
Thank you. So as we wrap up the 1986 law, in essence, effectively prevents parents to sue the manufacturers of vaccines if their child is injured. A recent poll found that almost two thirds of the country wants the right to sue vaccine manufacturers if their child is injured. What can be done to make that a reality? I mean, to repeal, maybe we just need to repeal 1986.
00:32:20:42 - 00:32:24:06
Dr. Paul
Have you some thoughts on that?
00:32:24:11 - 00:32:45:55
Theresa Wrangham
Well, as I said, the 1986 act is very big and encompasses bears. Would you want to lose bears where people report and we can see what kind of signals are maybe going through the system. Would you want to repeal something that requires at least some information getting out? I would I would say in our position and the way I see is it needs to be restored.
00:32:46:00 - 00:33:12:40
Theresa Wrangham
And the act didn't take away, didn't give a total liability shield. And that's very often misunderstood. But we have a great deal of information, historical information on our website about that. It was a Supreme Court case that did that. We actually filed an amicus brief, as, as, an organization whose co-founders were very instrumental in that law and how it was drafted in that respect.
00:33:12:45 - 00:33:22:25
Theresa Wrangham
It was never intended to be a full liability shield. And nor was it it was the Supreme Court that reinterpreted the law. It's a bad decision that needs to be overturned.
00:33:22:37 - 00:33:24:42
Dr. Paul
So that's what needs to be overturned.
00:33:24:47 - 00:33:52:00
Theresa Wrangham
In terms of liability. Yes. And, like any federal law, I think, you know, you seek to strengthen it. You know, that that's what the civil rights laws about so many last can be strengthened at a state level, which is why it's important to get involved at a state level around mandates and such, and to strengthen what we have and restore what we had, because before they tampered with the law, it gave parents an avenue and it gave parents a fair shake.
00:33:52:05 - 00:34:11:07
Theresa Wrangham
There are improvements, of course, that can be made in statute of limitations. It'd be nice to see that disappears. And so many people are unaware of the program. Because if you don't file a petition with a certain amount of time, that's one of the first questions we ask when somebody calls us. When did this start? And it's so sad that we have to say you're no longer eligible.
00:34:11:12 - 00:34:29:18
Theresa Wrangham
So I don't think there should be any statute of limitation if you've been harmed by a vaccine and you can show that or it's been put on the table or whatever, you know, if this country's going to ask us to vaccinate our children, and this program is going to be the safety net, let's do it. Right.
00:34:29:22 - 00:34:53:52
Theresa Wrangham
But at the very least, restore it. But the act wasn't a full liability shield for pharma and vaccine makers, and that's a common misconception. But I would say there's great danger in saying repeal the act. You would be losing the only admission our government has ever made that vaccines can do harm. And I think taking away that precedent is very dangerous.
00:34:53:57 - 00:35:22:51
Theresa Wrangham
Taking away the ongoing research mandate which we didn't touch on. There is a requirement federally that is not being followed that, actually, the Secretary of Health could if if we're looking for gold standard science and as you know, it hasn't happened, you know, there are levers in the law to leverage. You know, you repeal that, you suddenly lost all that, and then you've just got the big administrative funding battle.
00:35:22:55 - 00:35:31:17
Theresa Wrangham
It's already there. Let's use what's there. Let's restore it back to what it was and maybe improve it at some point in time. I mean, part of it's timing.
00:35:31:27 - 00:35:48:22
Dr. Paul
Summarized them for us just succinctly as possible. The top three things, maybe that you think should be done to rearm, have this act be as powerful as it could be to protect families and children.
00:35:48:27 - 00:36:15:11
Theresa Wrangham
Start to what it was. Put the checks and balances back. Put the liability back. Get those research projects done. Let's get that gold standard science that we're hearing a lot about. Let's get it done. Let's make sure parents aren't having to prove it. Let's have a real vaccine injury table informed by science. Let's not have, so many conditions that the island says we just don't know.
00:36:15:11 - 00:36:36:04
Theresa Wrangham
There's not enough science. That's simply not acceptable. What I would say to parents on top of that, get to know your state laws. Visit our site, find out what's happening in your state at NBC advocacy.org. Go to my Korg to find out what the laws are in your state. And don't be afraid to ask questions. Ask your school what's being taught in the classroom.
00:36:36:09 - 00:36:52:40
Theresa Wrangham
Ask them to give it to you. In writing, you know what, what is required and what's not and compare it. Don't be afraid to ask questions. These are your babies. It's your job to protect them. So you ask questions because nobody cares about them more than you do.
00:36:52:45 - 00:37:11:04
Dr. Paul
Wow. We should put that last two minutes right at the top. That was that was fantastic. Oh, thank you so much, Teresa, for being on the show and for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. If you get tapped, are you going to be able to go sort this all out for us? Oh, well.
00:37:11:13 - 00:37:32:19
Theresa Wrangham
I think there are probably better people than me, but I'll help in any way I can. I think it's up to all of us to do what we can. This is going to take many people and, I certainly don't know what I continue to learn. The OG on this is Barbara. Barbara recognizes how the sausage is made, and I continue to learn.
00:37:32:24 - 00:37:35:36
Dr. Paul
Yeah, a wealth of information. And thank you for being on the show.
00:37:35:40 - 00:37:36:51
Theresa Wrangham
Thank you for having me.
00:37:36:56 - 00:37:54:00
Dr. Paul
Well, folks, you can also reach me at Kids First forever.com. And my new book, Wax Sacks, is available everywhere. Books are sold or at Wax Sachs, Booking.com and we'll see you next week.
00:37:59:19 - 00:38:00:55
Dr. Paul
I look forward to running
00:38:00:55 - 00:38:25:13
Dr. Paul
together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
00:38:25:19 - 00:38:32:35
Dr. Paul
I'm Dr. Paul.
Speaker's speaking time
- Theresa Wrangham — 68.35%
- Dr. Paul — 30.81%
00:00:40:28 - 00:01:05:39
Dr. Paul
VAX facts this book hits bookstores December 10th. You can get a copy now by going to VAX Facts book.com, where you can get a signed author's copy, where you can order an e-book, or you can also preorder the book if you are seeing this message before December 10th. You can also order this book at any bookseller, any bookstore, wherever books are sold, and preorder your copy.
00:01:05:53 - 00:01:16:16
Dr. Paul
Get this book for your loved ones, for your family, for yourself, and let's get healthy.
00:01:16:16 - 00:01:26:48
Unknown
Do. You.
00:01:26:53 - 00:01:35:10
Unknown
Know.
00:01:35:19 - 00:01:54:49
Dr. Paul
Good morning. PhD. Welcome to Pediatric Perspectives, where we are looking at children's health challenges from a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking and is not afraid to bring you the honest truth. I'm your host, Doctor Paul, and today it is my honor to bring back Theresa Wrangham. Thank you for joining us today.
00:01:54:54 - 00:01:58:22
Theresa Wrangham
Oh, so happy to be here. Doctor Powell, thanks for having me back.
00:01:58:27 - 00:02:23:04
Dr. Paul
Thank you. You have such a wealth of experience in the area of vaccines. You're the executive director of NVC, the national vaccine Information Center, which, by the way, is where I send parents anytime they ask about, you know, what are the state laws with regards to vaccine exemptions? You guys cover that so beautifully that you stay up to date, but you've been doing that since 2010.
00:02:23:04 - 00:02:59:21
Dr. Paul
I believe you were a reviewer of protocols for the Cochrane Collaborative. You've been involved with CDC's public engagement for pandemic H1n1 meningococcal vaccines and Colorado's public engagement on personal belief exemptions and meningococcal vaccines. You've worked for the advisory committee or presented to the Advisory Committee on Childhood Vaccines, and presented NVC during CDC s vaccine information. This revision consultations, if you're watching this, was this thing, this little handout.
00:02:59:22 - 00:03:26:45
Dr. Paul
As a pediatrician, when I was practicing, we would give to the patients and that was the extent of their vaccine education in most pediatric practices. It's something else. In 2021, you co-founded the Autism Society for Boulder County in Colorado. You've served as board of directors for Autism Society of Colorado and Safe Minds. You've been on the advisory board for US autism.
00:03:26:49 - 00:03:49:04
Dr. Paul
Oh my gosh, there's too much. We don't have enough time to cover all your experience in this area. I wanted to focus today on the 1986 Childhood Immunization Act. I wonder if you could start by just explaining to our audience, what is the 1986 Childhood Childhood Immunization Act, and why is the childhood vaccination schedule mentioned in that act?
00:03:49:09 - 00:04:34:18
Theresa Wrangham
Okay, sure. Well, the 1986 act was about, a fair way to compensate the vaccine injured children who were, injured by childhood vaccines. And it really started in, 1982, I believe, when the, DPT vaccine Roulette documentary came out. That's how MBA six co-founders actually met each other. And what that documentary was about was, vaccine injuries, that were caused as a result of wholesale pertussis, DPT vaccine and that the harms of that vaccine and how reactive it was, was known for over 40 years in the medical literature at 1982.
00:04:34:23 - 00:04:56:54
Theresa Wrangham
So it was the work of our co-founders, with Congress, to help draft and pass some of the portions of the 1986 act. And some of what spurred that was the lack of informed consent parents were receiving, for instance. Doctor Paul, you brought up a great point about the this the vaccine information statements that comes out of this act.
00:04:56:58 - 00:05:20:54
Theresa Wrangham
And, the act was amended. It used to be so much more than the one page you get now. And it went over like the risks of disease. It gave you the background on the disease. So, the law has changed over time, but the intent of the law was to compensate those who were injured by vaccines, children, because that was what was happening at the time.
00:05:20:58 - 00:05:45:14
Theresa Wrangham
There were school mandates. So children are being harmed. Parents were settling on courtroom steps for pennies, against vaccine manufacturers, and they weren't getting what they needed. And there was great pushback from the industry. So this was an attempt for a no fault compensation system. It put in an ongoing research mandate that's required vaccine informing, that's required reporting, that's required.
00:05:45:14 - 00:06:10:15
Theresa Wrangham
Bears comes from the act. So the act is a lot larger than I think a lot of people realize. And it's changed over time quite a bit. It's been gutted by, previous, secretaries of health. They took out a lot of the vaccine informed consent protections that were in the act, and, have made it harder for children to get compensation today.
00:06:10:19 - 00:06:28:38
Theresa Wrangham
The reason the childhood, vaccines were mentioned is for that time frame, there was only the childhood schedule. There wasn't an adult schedule. There wasn't a schedule for pregnant women. So that's why the focus of that act is on childhood vaccines.
00:06:28:43 - 00:06:29:13
Dr. Paul
Yeah, I'll.
00:06:29:13 - 00:06:31:28
Theresa Wrangham
Stop there so you can ask more questions.
00:06:31:33 - 00:06:56:01
Dr. Paul
I remember sitting together at a presentation where Barbara Loe Fisher, who was one of the founders of, Navic, shared the importance at that particular time. You you mentioned it, that, you know, kids who were injured were not really able to stand up against the financial resources that the pharmaceutical industry had at, at their hands. So the thought at that time was that this is a great act.
00:06:56:03 - 00:07:16:07
Dr. Paul
This will allow, compensate for the injured and, I think from what I've witnessed anyway, most injuries aren't even recognized anymore as vaccine related. So if you have a vaccine injury that's not on the recommended list, you're automatically excluded. Is that true?
00:07:16:12 - 00:07:41:32
Theresa Wrangham
Well not quite. So before the act was amended, it didn't. The program actually worked quite well. And there are reports, out of the Government Accountability Office around that because of the gutting of the law with, the little bit of liability, that parents could sue manufacturers taken away by the Supreme Court in 2011 and Bruce Letts versus Wyeth.
00:07:41:37 - 00:08:04:32
Theresa Wrangham
In the 90s, we saw, the vaccine information statement gutted. But progressively. What we've also seen to your point are changes in the vaccine injury table. If you get DPT vaccine, there is a list of associated injuries that are created and put on the table through a process. And part of that process comes out of the National Academies of Science.
00:08:04:32 - 00:08:34:54
Theresa Wrangham
The IOM reports, they're presented to DHHS and their advisory committees, and then it's recommended to add them to the table. DHHS, doesn't have to follow the recommendations of their advisory committee. They are simply advisory. They have control over definitions around encephalopathy, encephalitis, Ada. And that's where a lot of changes took place that, most kids are suffering these type of injuries.
00:08:34:54 - 00:09:10:00
Theresa Wrangham
And today, very few children get compensated. It's something like 90% adults now. And people are like, well, wait a minute. This act was the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. How did adults get compensated? Adults got compensated, get compensated mostly for flu shot, by the way, and up. But it happens because of how the law's worded. Any childhood vaccine that's routinely recommended, if it's routinely recommended to children and in adults harmed by it, that's what gets them in the door for compensation.
00:09:10:05 - 00:09:33:31
Theresa Wrangham
So, for example, shingles is not routinely recommended to children. So that's not covered by the vaccine. Now, to your point around, if it's not on the table, what it goes through, it's called litigate of risk. And it's become such a hostile environment that parents are actually having to go in and prove that the vaccine harmed them.
00:09:33:31 - 00:10:00:31
Theresa Wrangham
If that injury that they're petitioning on doesn't appear on that vaccine injury table, then they have to prove, causation essentially. And the problem with that is, is if you followed IOM reports like we have on vaccine safety, there are many gaps. There are many places where the IOM has simply said there is not enough quality science, or there's an absence of science that prevents us from making on causality.
00:10:00:31 - 00:10:27:49
Theresa Wrangham
Conclusion. Which means if you suffer from that entry, you're going to have to prove it because there's not enough science. So when we hear the science are settle, the science is. Then I would ask people to go read those reports and read the causality table and see how modern it is. Yeah, because that is what informs. That's a big piece of how that vaccine entry table is put together is around those reports.
00:10:27:54 - 00:10:54:56
Dr. Paul
The whole thing is stacked against patients who are injured by vaccines, mostly because I would tell you from my own research that I published the vaccine VAX study, and there are others now published. So this is not unique. There are many studies out there now, and they don't mainstream medicine, the pharmaceutical industry, vaccine manufacturers do not do proper studies that compare vaccinated to unvaccinated.
00:10:54:56 - 00:11:17:41
Dr. Paul
They don't do placebo controlled studies. They have very short studies. They don't look at all health outcomes. So we have really no information. It's this vacuum. And so therefore, I think when when you go to court, you can't prove it because the standard they're trying to hold you to is ridiculous in the absence of any proper studies.
00:11:17:46 - 00:11:41:57
Dr. Paul
But we now know very conclusively, I mean, my new book, Max Sachs, covers all of this in detail. Vaccinated children are much more likely to have neurodevelopmental disorders, learning disorders, autism. They're much more likely to have allergies and autoimmune issues, and they're much more likely to actually get more infections. So if you get a if you get your child vaccinated and they have one of these conditions that there are plenty of studies that show there's a correlation.
00:11:41:57 - 00:11:57:04
Dr. Paul
Yes. Correlation doesn't mean causation, but if you have multiple studies, and it's temporal, you get the vaccine and then you get the event. And there's a mechanism by which we can explain how it happened. Then that is causation.
00:11:57:09 - 00:12:22:06
Theresa Wrangham
But the system was supposed to also give the benefit of the doubt to the parents. And that's, that's really gone. And it's so unfortunate. It has become a stacked deck for a system that once worked because the court system didn't. It worked until Congress gave control to DHHS. You know, they can they can do pretty much what they want there until it's restored.
00:12:22:10 - 00:12:55:13
Theresa Wrangham
You know, we're not going to see improvements. And the I think what's sad is the tort system is probably even stronger now, but the likelihood of an individual, winning against pharma, you'd have to have very deep pockets. Don't think that they haven't prepped for such an occasion. So I think there's a need for the safety system, but it really needs to be restored to what worked, and give people options, you know, used to be able to have the option to sue, but you had to go through the system first.
00:12:55:18 - 00:13:12:12
Theresa Wrangham
And again, that was taken away by the Supreme Court in 2011. This is not a I don't think the current Supreme Court is any friendlier than it was in 2011. I don't think we'd see a different decisions for something be run up the flagpole on that.
00:13:12:16 - 00:13:24:53
Dr. Paul
So can you explain how a vaccine injury is added to the table. Because it seems like that table is so narrow. We should be expanding it to include all the actual injuries that are happening.
00:13:24:58 - 00:13:44:08
Theresa Wrangham
Well there are a couple of ways. For example a game bar syndrome was added to the table for flu shot. That was what was called an administrative ad and the Institute of Medicine most requested to go look at that condition for a flu shot. And they came back and said, yeah, we're not sure we have enough to say causation.
00:13:44:08 - 00:14:11:34
Theresa Wrangham
And basically what person said, was we're seeing a lot of this in the bicep, and we're going to recommend adding it. Those discussions happen at the Advisory Commission for Childhood Vaccines that is called the ACC. It's a federal advisory committee that advises us on adding, injuries to the table or making changes to the vaccine injury compensation program.
00:14:11:39 - 00:14:35:25
Theresa Wrangham
So they are the advisory committee around that. And so presentations are made to them based on either an administrative ad being recommended by federal agencies or, via a report from the National Academies of Sciences, now the National Academy of Medicine. But it used to be called the Institute of Medicine. And they've done over 25 years of reports.
00:14:35:30 - 00:14:58:54
Theresa Wrangham
So they examine the report when it comes in. There's a presentation made on here where here's what we were asked to look at. Here's what we found in terms of causation and what we found as inadequate meaning. Again, not enough science to tell us. And then there are some rejections where they say the science favors rejection or this is an out and out rejection.
00:14:58:59 - 00:15:31:06
Theresa Wrangham
Once that's done, the ACC will make a recommendation to the secretary of additions to the table. But again, these aren't binding. The Secretary can just say no, and not accept them. And again, the Secretary has control over and his delegates. If he delegates to the authority, to change the definitions within the table. And that has happened with regard to encephalopathy and stuff like this.
00:15:31:10 - 00:15:34:14
Dr. Paul
So who's in that secretary position lately?
00:15:34:25 - 00:15:40:45
Theresa Wrangham
Robert F Kennedy Jr, as, being forward for the DHHS secretary.
00:15:40:50 - 00:15:43:47
Dr. Paul
Gotcha. So that's the that's the position you're talking about?
00:15:43:52 - 00:15:48:35
Theresa Wrangham
Yes. The Department of Health and Human Services oversees.
00:15:48:40 - 00:15:49:56
Dr. Paul
That.
00:15:50:01 - 00:15:52:31
Theresa Wrangham
Herself falls under them. So okay.
00:15:52:36 - 00:16:01:56
Dr. Paul
That's a super important position isn't it? I mean, that's that individual can basically do whatever they want. Seems to me.
00:16:02:01 - 00:16:22:09
Theresa Wrangham
Well, because the law was amended, that's not how the law was. Originally. Congress gave DHHS that authority, the original law. Congress got to chime in. There had to be, a congressional piece to that. And that disappeared. So now now it's.
00:16:22:14 - 00:16:23:07
Dr. Paul
Fast.
00:16:23:12 - 00:16:25:34
Theresa Wrangham
And balance. Is there any more on that?
00:16:25:46 - 00:16:48:08
Dr. Paul
That is fascinating. So, you know, knowing how Congress and our government is so influenced by pharma and money. So they did that to have total control, but that could just end up burning them in a sense. If you put somebody who's ethical and honest and really understands the science in that powerful position.
00:16:48:13 - 00:17:10:19
Theresa Wrangham
Sure. As the law stands now, the Secretary of Health, we have a great deal of, power to implement change. I, I would say that you can't do that overnight. There's administrative requirements. There are requirements within the law in terms of public notice. Some of that authority has been delegated down. And I'm not sure how you unwind that.
00:17:10:19 - 00:17:51:11
Theresa Wrangham
And I'm an attorney, but I don't think it's an overnight thing that can be done. But certainly, the oversight is there. And the statute is worded where it's the Secretary's responsibility. But even if it were to go back to Congress, the question would then become, how are pharma lobbyists influencing Congress on those very same matters? You know, when when Barbara, Kathy and Jeff, you know, sat down with Waxman and Kennedy to help, you know, draft some of this, they did their very best from the standpoint of parents of vaccine injured children to create a system that there were going to be checks and balances, that parents would be given a fair shake.
00:17:51:11 - 00:18:15:16
Theresa Wrangham
Again, it worked initially, but you know, it's only as good as the weakest link. And if if our federal agencies are captured and and that agency holds up oversight, you've got a problem. If we've got, congressmen who are, you know, getting a lot of money from pharma, it influences their vote. You can have the same thing happen.
00:18:15:16 - 00:18:35:24
Theresa Wrangham
Even it's the law is restored. So I think really it's upon the citizen to be pretty educated and be a, solid constituent. Because if you restore the law, you have more power. If it goes, if you restore the law and Congress has their piece, these are people we vote in. We don't vote in the Secretary of health, you know.
00:18:35:24 - 00:18:45:49
Theresa Wrangham
So I think that was some of the the logic that was applied initially. And unfortunately the law was amended and that check and balance is no longer available.
00:18:45:54 - 00:19:17:01
Dr. Paul
Okay. I want to go back to the viewers because as a pediatrician, I'm retired now. But pediatricians make a lot of money off of vaccines. And one of the sources of income is that you have provided information. And so the assumption is, well, my pediatrician gave me the pros and the cons, and I what I understand, because I've been a pediatrician is that the more you know about the actual risks of vaccines, to share them honestly requires a lot of time.
00:19:17:06 - 00:19:51:55
Dr. Paul
And nobody has that kind of time. So what pediatricians do is they shortcut to this, this vaccine information sheet that magnifies the risks of the diseases and minimizes the risk of the vaccines. It's not a fair representation of what the true risks are. And therefore everybody going to their pediatrician. And sadly, you know, 90 plus percent of people still see pediatricians, I think, for their pediatric care, they're actually getting false or at least curated information that I think is sadly lacking.
00:19:51:56 - 00:20:02:48
Dr. Paul
I'm wondering what can be done, if anything, to rectify what's happening in reality. That that visit sheet. Here you go. Here's your information.
00:20:02:53 - 00:20:28:05
Theresa Wrangham
Well, again, that was created under the 1986 act and originally, this was about 8 or 9 pages. And it didn't it wasn't today, I would call it a marketing piece. I think it opens in the first section saying why you should vaccinate. That's not information. That's it. That's that's telemarketing. That there's agenda, you know, this is where this is going.
00:20:28:05 - 00:20:51:33
Theresa Wrangham
We want you to vaccinate. The purpose of the this originally was, was to inform the parent. Now it doesn't need an informed consent, ethic, but what it was supposed to do is inform the parents so that there could be dialog, or so the parent could go out and get more information because it talked about the frequency and severity of complications with a disease.
00:20:51:38 - 00:21:09:02
Theresa Wrangham
You know, what the disease looked like, symptoms, so on. And so forth. And then it went through that same sort of thing for the vaccine, what's known, what's not known. That that no longer happens. The this, part of the law was amended, and now it only talks about the benefits and risks of the vaccine.
00:21:09:02 - 00:21:50:49
Theresa Wrangham
There's nothing about the disease. The one thing that's in the law, however, that remained is the secretary of health, the, you know, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The secretary can add in other things as as the Secretary sees fit. So the Secretary, while that no longer exists in the law to talk about frequency and severity of complications from, the disease and just general information about the disease, the secretary can say, look, we're putting it in, so that that is something that that could be done, that this could be restored without, having to go through, congressional action.
00:21:50:49 - 00:22:09:27
Theresa Wrangham
It could be done at an agency level. However, bear in mind, as an administration changes, that can be walked back as well. So I would say that's the good news about the this is that, it's still able to be changed without having to go through a statutory change.
00:22:09:36 - 00:22:19:56
Dr. Paul
I'm really happy to hear that because I just it's time parents need to be getting all the information, not just this marketing pieces you call it, which is exactly what it was.
00:22:20:01 - 00:22:43:01
Theresa Wrangham
I ask a question just as a retired pediatrician, because we get lots of stars at NBC about I didn't get my vest. My daughter wouldn't talk to me. I've been banned from the practice. They get kicked out for even asking a question. Yeah, but I have heard in monitoring federal advisory committees how much how much education did you get on vaccines when you were in school?
00:22:43:01 - 00:22:44:14
Theresa Wrangham
I'm just curious.
00:22:44:19 - 00:22:45:40
Dr. Paul
Oh, none.
00:22:45:45 - 00:23:01:19
Theresa Wrangham
So you weren't really. And see, this is what I think part of the problem is this. Yeah, the parents have got questions and and the Institute of Medicine actually came out with a report saying there's not a lot for doctors to point to on. This is the best schedule. They're also schedules around.
00:23:01:21 - 00:23:10:15
Dr. Paul
So all we were taught was this is the schedule. And this is the best way to keep children safe from the communicable diseases, blah, blah, blah.
00:23:10:19 - 00:23:17:14
Theresa Wrangham
And that's a good question for parents to start with. Tell me. Tell me what you've read. How much background do you have?
00:23:17:19 - 00:23:37:37
Dr. Paul
Right, right. Well, but when I was a pediatrician, I'll tell you my answer, because, you know, I don't want to look like I'm an idiot. I'll say, oh, this is my whole life. I do all I read about vaccines every day. I mean, it's sort of true, but I'm reading junk science about vaccines every day. I'm not really, like, ask me what's in the vaccine.
00:23:37:37 - 00:23:55:39
Dr. Paul
I wouldn't know. I mean, I, I have a pretty good sense now, but back then I didn't know what was in the vaccines. Ask me what? Yeah. What side effects? They're safe. 1 in 1,000,000. You know, I would I would repeat what I was taught, which was nonsense. I just want to highlight and have you speak on this.
00:23:55:39 - 00:24:16:04
Dr. Paul
It is a state by state thing. And NVC has done such a great job of putting together the information for people to easily access, getting an exemption, maybe just talk to what an exemption is, where where someone can go to get the details of how to get an exemption and what it means in terms of your ability to say yes or no to vaccines.
00:24:16:09 - 00:24:36:35
Theresa Wrangham
Well, as you pointed out, vaccine exemption, we're usually talking about school children. We keep that information on our website. You can go to our website and go under our state pages. Keep a map that we're kind of famous for. And you can see what, what the vaccine requirement laws are in your state, as well as what exemptions are offered.
00:24:36:40 - 00:25:05:06
Theresa Wrangham
Some things to be aware of. You need to understand that sometimes the word school, like I lived in Colorado, school covered school was defined as also daycare. Okay. It it covered churches, private schools and public schools. So it's important to not just look at, okay, there's an exemption for, kindergarten, you know. Well, are you going to a private kindergarten in a church?
00:25:05:06 - 00:25:29:09
Theresa Wrangham
Does your state law cover that? So I really encourage you to to visit our website and ask a lot of questions. We're not always able to get all the detail. We would like that we try to make it available and then provide links where you can get more information. Always ask for the statute if you feel like you're being in front by, an administrative official, because we've seen that happen, too.
00:25:29:13 - 00:26:11:26
Theresa Wrangham
And we've sent people the law and they print it out and take it into their school. But, when you take an exemption, there are a couple different kinds. There's medical exemptions and those are written by doctors. And every state, has a medical exemption. However, some states, like California and New York have made it really hard for doctors to feel, good about it, showing them, we've had calls from people who have had medical exemptions in place for years, and their doctors are now afraid to issue them for legitimate, medical reasons because they're seeing doctors, licenses pulled, you know, by their state boards.
00:26:11:26 - 00:26:51:35
Theresa Wrangham
So it's getting harder and harder to get a medical exemption because the criteria for the CDC is getting narrower. But there's also that pressure being put on state boards. Then you have personal conscientious belief exemptions, that aren't necessarily religious, but more around your personal belief systems. And then you have religious exemptions. Now, when you take an exemption, something to be aware of that's very common in the law is if there's an outbreak of a disease for which you've taken an exemption for that vaccine, you may have a child at home and then tell, they say the outbreak is over and you can return.
00:26:51:40 - 00:27:14:24
Theresa Wrangham
That's what you're agreeing to, okay, a lot of people don't realize that's the deal you're making. You take an exemption. But that's a very common thing. With Covid, we saw some employer mandates. However, we saw, title seven under the Civil Rights Act come in and many people were wrongfully terminated who are now being made whole. And that process takes time.
00:27:14:24 - 00:27:39:11
Theresa Wrangham
So we'll have to see how that works out. The big push on getting adults to comply is to get employers to mandate it. And, employers were really pressured during Covid 19 to do that. And a lot of that backfired. So it'll be interesting. There's a right and a wrong way to do it. And, a lot of employers didn't get it right.
00:27:39:11 - 00:27:49:10
Theresa Wrangham
So they're they're paying a price now. But I think the question should become, should your employer be asking you to take a health care measure?
00:27:49:21 - 00:28:17:17
Dr. Paul
So what I experienced in Oregon has philosophical and religious exemptions. And yet the schools will send letters out for exclusion to every parent. And the parents are not told in those letters that they have the right to an exemption. You're told you have to have your child vaccinated or they can't attend school. So they rush into their pediatric offices, they're all caught up with all their vaccines, and they were absolutely unaware that they had the right to get an exemption.
00:28:17:31 - 00:28:19:30
Dr. Paul
And usually it's not that difficult to do it.
00:28:19:30 - 00:28:40:11
Theresa Wrangham
Colorado, because of what you're saying. There were parents who got together and that's required in the state of Colorado and probably other states. You cannot railroad a parent like that. You have to tell them. So that would be a really good point for parents to proceed from an advocacy level. And as you know, we have the advocacy portal where people can see that vaccine related legislation.
00:28:40:12 - 00:28:49:34
Theresa Wrangham
We're seeing lots of good stuff being rolled out, and we need people supporting it and educating themselves because legislators are opening up.
00:28:49:39 - 00:28:56:51
Dr. Paul
There you do have you do have, that information on your website as well about pending legislation, which I think that's incredible.
00:28:56:57 - 00:29:16:09
Theresa Wrangham
I get parents writing us saying, I'm being told this, but my friend says that and we send them their state page and we explain it and say, you know, they don't have to tell you. They should tell you, but you do have the right and here's the law. Take it in and ask for the exemption form, or you can get it from our side if the state has an official one.
00:29:16:14 - 00:29:27:44
Theresa Wrangham
But I've, I've sent letters to state health department saying your link to your exemption form is broken. Where should I send parents queries to? And then I get a link because they don't want to be.
00:29:27:49 - 00:29:30:51
Dr. Paul
They don't want to make those phone calls.
00:29:30:56 - 00:29:34:55
Theresa Wrangham
So we do our best to get that information out.
00:29:35:00 - 00:29:59:21
Dr. Paul
I want to touch on another thing that I think NVC has done a better job than anybody. I know kids are learning about vaccines in schools, and as a parent, I didn't know that. I didn't know that my children were being indoctrinated about, oh, how wonderful and amazing vaccines are and never told a thing about any dangers. What can parents do to figure out what, if anything, is being taught in the schools?
00:29:59:26 - 00:30:17:17
Theresa Wrangham
Well, I did, I think you've got a resource link that I sent to our FAQ, use our frequently asked questions. And you do have rights under the law to know what's being taught in the school. The few ready made lesson plans I've seen don't cover the Vaccine Entry Act, which to me is a part of history, right?
00:30:17:31 - 00:30:43:28
Theresa Wrangham
It's the first time our government said vaccines could harm an area. And we're going to help make you whole. So you're right there. It's scary. But you do have rights under federal laws, and we do have that on our website. And I provided some of that information. You have to request it, though. The law is such that if you don't request it, it's then you're not going to find out.
00:30:43:28 - 00:31:12:13
Theresa Wrangham
But you have a right to know what's being taught you have a right to know when vaccine clinics are going to be in your school, so that you can opt out. The this, even though this isn't a great, informative piece, the way the law is written, we're seeing a lot more in the way of minor consent, where you have these vaccine clinics that come through schools and pressure put on kids to consent without their parents knowledge.
00:31:12:18 - 00:31:34:45
Theresa Wrangham
The CDC actually had a web page. I think it's still up where they're saying, no, can't do that. Parents have to have the best before they're vaccinated, and it's not its parent or guardian. It is not, you know, an an older child under state law. It's a parent or guardian. So, you know, parents need to get informed.
00:31:34:52 - 00:31:53:10
Theresa Wrangham
They need to ask questions, you know, what are you teaching my child? If I didn't send you that specific. Thank you. I'll do it as soon as we're off here. But I did send the general link to our RFQ, and it does have a piece in there about vaccine curriculum. Yeah, they could be asking questions.
00:31:53:15 - 00:32:20:42
Dr. Paul
Thank you. So as we wrap up the 1986 law, in essence, effectively prevents parents to sue the manufacturers of vaccines if their child is injured. A recent poll found that almost two thirds of the country wants the right to sue vaccine manufacturers if their child is injured. What can be done to make that a reality? I mean, to repeal, maybe we just need to repeal 1986.
00:32:20:42 - 00:32:24:06
Dr. Paul
Have you some thoughts on that?
00:32:24:11 - 00:32:45:55
Theresa Wrangham
Well, as I said, the 1986 act is very big and encompasses bears. Would you want to lose bears where people report and we can see what kind of signals are maybe going through the system. Would you want to repeal something that requires at least some information getting out? I would I would say in our position and the way I see is it needs to be restored.
00:32:46:00 - 00:33:12:40
Theresa Wrangham
And the act didn't take away, didn't give a total liability shield. And that's very often misunderstood. But we have a great deal of information, historical information on our website about that. It was a Supreme Court case that did that. We actually filed an amicus brief, as, as, an organization whose co-founders were very instrumental in that law and how it was drafted in that respect.
00:33:12:45 - 00:33:22:25
Theresa Wrangham
It was never intended to be a full liability shield. And nor was it it was the Supreme Court that reinterpreted the law. It's a bad decision that needs to be overturned.
00:33:22:37 - 00:33:24:42
Dr. Paul
So that's what needs to be overturned.
00:33:24:47 - 00:33:52:00
Theresa Wrangham
In terms of liability. Yes. And, like any federal law, I think, you know, you seek to strengthen it. You know, that that's what the civil rights laws about so many last can be strengthened at a state level, which is why it's important to get involved at a state level around mandates and such, and to strengthen what we have and restore what we had, because before they tampered with the law, it gave parents an avenue and it gave parents a fair shake.
00:33:52:05 - 00:34:11:07
Theresa Wrangham
There are improvements, of course, that can be made in statute of limitations. It'd be nice to see that disappears. And so many people are unaware of the program. Because if you don't file a petition with a certain amount of time, that's one of the first questions we ask when somebody calls us. When did this start? And it's so sad that we have to say you're no longer eligible.
00:34:11:12 - 00:34:29:18
Theresa Wrangham
So I don't think there should be any statute of limitation if you've been harmed by a vaccine and you can show that or it's been put on the table or whatever, you know, if this country's going to ask us to vaccinate our children, and this program is going to be the safety net, let's do it. Right.
00:34:29:22 - 00:34:53:52
Theresa Wrangham
But at the very least, restore it. But the act wasn't a full liability shield for pharma and vaccine makers, and that's a common misconception. But I would say there's great danger in saying repeal the act. You would be losing the only admission our government has ever made that vaccines can do harm. And I think taking away that precedent is very dangerous.
00:34:53:57 - 00:35:22:51
Theresa Wrangham
Taking away the ongoing research mandate which we didn't touch on. There is a requirement federally that is not being followed that, actually, the Secretary of Health could if if we're looking for gold standard science and as you know, it hasn't happened, you know, there are levers in the law to leverage. You know, you repeal that, you suddenly lost all that, and then you've just got the big administrative funding battle.
00:35:22:55 - 00:35:31:17
Theresa Wrangham
It's already there. Let's use what's there. Let's restore it back to what it was and maybe improve it at some point in time. I mean, part of it's timing.
00:35:31:27 - 00:35:48:22
Dr. Paul
Summarized them for us just succinctly as possible. The top three things, maybe that you think should be done to rearm, have this act be as powerful as it could be to protect families and children.
00:35:48:27 - 00:36:15:11
Theresa Wrangham
Start to what it was. Put the checks and balances back. Put the liability back. Get those research projects done. Let's get that gold standard science that we're hearing a lot about. Let's get it done. Let's make sure parents aren't having to prove it. Let's have a real vaccine injury table informed by science. Let's not have, so many conditions that the island says we just don't know.
00:36:15:11 - 00:36:36:04
Theresa Wrangham
There's not enough science. That's simply not acceptable. What I would say to parents on top of that, get to know your state laws. Visit our site, find out what's happening in your state at NBC advocacy.org. Go to my Korg to find out what the laws are in your state. And don't be afraid to ask questions. Ask your school what's being taught in the classroom.
00:36:36:09 - 00:36:52:40
Theresa Wrangham
Ask them to give it to you. In writing, you know what, what is required and what's not and compare it. Don't be afraid to ask questions. These are your babies. It's your job to protect them. So you ask questions because nobody cares about them more than you do.
00:36:52:45 - 00:37:11:04
Dr. Paul
Wow. We should put that last two minutes right at the top. That was that was fantastic. Oh, thank you so much, Teresa, for being on the show and for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. If you get tapped, are you going to be able to go sort this all out for us? Oh, well.
00:37:11:13 - 00:37:32:19
Theresa Wrangham
I think there are probably better people than me, but I'll help in any way I can. I think it's up to all of us to do what we can. This is going to take many people and, I certainly don't know what I continue to learn. The OG on this is Barbara. Barbara recognizes how the sausage is made, and I continue to learn.
00:37:32:24 - 00:37:35:36
Dr. Paul
Yeah, a wealth of information. And thank you for being on the show.
00:37:35:40 - 00:37:36:51
Theresa Wrangham
Thank you for having me.
00:37:36:56 - 00:37:54:00
Dr. Paul
Well, folks, you can also reach me at Kids First forever.com. And my new book, Wax Sacks, is available everywhere. Books are sold or at Wax Sachs, Booking.com and we'll see you next week.
00:37:59:19 - 00:38:00:55
Dr. Paul
I look forward to running
00:38:00:55 - 00:38:25:13
Dr. Paul
together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
00:38:25:19 - 00:38:32:35
Dr. Paul
I'm Dr. Paul.
0 Comments