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With the Wind with Dr. Paul - Show 170: Pediatric Perspectives - Guidance for a Home Birth with Salli Gonzalez
Speaker Times:
00:00:40:28 - 00:01:05:39
Dr. Paul
VAX facts this book hits bookstores December 10th. You can get a copy now by going to VAX Facts book.com, where you can get a signed author's copy, where you can order an e-book, or you can also preorder the book if you are seeing this message before December 10th. You can also order this book at any bookseller, any bookstore, wherever books are sold, and preorder your copy.
00:01:05:53 - 00:01:16:16
Dr. Paul
Get this book for your loved ones, for your family, for yourself, and let's get healthy.
00:01:35:06 - 00:01:56:04
Dr. Paul
Good morning, and welcome to Pediatric Perspectives, where we are looking at children's health challenges with a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking and is not afraid to ask tough questions. Give you the honest truth. My guest today is Sally Gonzalez. Welcome, Sally. It's so good to have you on the show.
00:01:56:09 - 00:01:57:43
Salli Gonzalez
Thank you for having me.
00:01:57:48 - 00:02:16:40
Dr. Paul
So my mom was a nurse midwife most of her career after having been a missionary in, Rhodesia, Zimbabwe now. So, she did the latter part of her career. She did a lot of home births. That was primarily what she was doing along with teaching other midwives. You've been a midwife for over 16 years. You've worked in birth centers.
00:02:16:40 - 00:02:24:23
Dr. Paul
You've done a lot of home births. Maybe just start off by sharing what got you into midwifery.
00:02:24:28 - 00:02:54:23
Salli Gonzalez
Well, I was a mother first. I had my first baby in the hospital. Typically, how they go with augmentation, with pitocin and the monitoring and the aid and all that. And, it was, you know, the typical labor, it wasn't, it wasn't too bad as far as they go, but I didn't know any different. And as I went along, I just kind of thought, well, how can this be more enjoyable?
00:02:54:28 - 00:03:16:31
Salli Gonzalez
And a birth center had opened in my town, and I was pregnant with my second baby. And I said, I'm going to try that. And, just became more informed. I decided I was going to eat better and exercise more and just really dig in to a deeper as far as my health and taking care of my baby.
00:03:16:36 - 00:03:41:42
Salli Gonzalez
And the birth center experience was like a night and day difference. It was run by doctors. I was they were obese in the area, but they hired nurses that were very similar to midwives. In my opinion. Because they came in and they stayed with you and, stayed throughout your labor and, I didn't have continuous monitoring.
00:03:41:46 - 00:04:04:17
Salli Gonzalez
I didn't have the I.V., I didn't have all the things that I'd had with my first birth, and it was just so much more enjoyable. So it basically changed my life. And I wanted to tell others how fun, really fun births can be. So after that, I started studying on my own to become a childbirth educator.
00:04:04:22 - 00:04:27:08
Salli Gonzalez
And as I was studying, I'm like, I need to learn more about nutrition. So I'm diving into nutrition books and realizing that, our diet is not so great. So I go to the pantry and start throwing out all the packaged foods and the junk foods, and my husband's like, what are you doing? And I said, we're embarking on something new and wonderful.
00:04:27:13 - 00:04:58:17
Salli Gonzalez
And, so that's kind of how it all went, you know, as I got deeper into the natural space of things, I just kind of realized, I need to take charge of my family's health, and, the rest is kind of history as far as that's concerned. But, I obviously was getting pregnant again. And with my third baby, I'm thinking to myself, I think I could do this at home.
00:04:58:22 - 00:05:24:27
Salli Gonzalez
And so I was like, is that safe? And I and I wanted to, you know, just kind of learn more about that too. So I, went to the library. That's way before the internet, of course. And, discovered that, midwifery care home birth is safe, just as safe as hospital birth. And so I'm like, okay, we'll do this.
00:05:24:31 - 00:05:47:52
Salli Gonzalez
As the pregnancy went on, I discovered that my son I was carrying was breech, and that was a whole new, perspective that I had to learn about. And so, again, I go to the library and I get a stack of books, and I pore through them, and, and, I realized that with an experienced provider, I could easily have a breech both at home.
00:05:47:52 - 00:05:51:25
Salli Gonzalez
And so this third baby was born breech.
00:05:51:30 - 00:05:51:57
Dr. Paul
Wow.
00:05:51:57 - 00:05:53:42
Salli Gonzalez
And then at home.
00:05:53:46 - 00:05:57:28
Dr. Paul
That's that takes a an experienced provider with courage.
00:05:57:33 - 00:06:12:55
Salli Gonzalez
Oh yeah. She, she definitely had the experience. When we discovered she was breech which was basically a week before he was born. She didn't want to influence me in any way. And so that's why I went to the library and got.
00:06:13:00 - 00:06:27:49
Dr. Paul
I have an ObGyn friend who delivers breech at home all the time, and he says my colleagues use breech as a contraindication for home birth. Right? Yes. Most doctors would say, oh no, you can't deliver breech at home. But you did.
00:06:27:49 - 00:06:30:51
Salli Gonzalez
It. A lot of them won't even try it in the hospital.
00:06:30:51 - 00:06:31:35
Dr. Paul
Right?
00:06:31:40 - 00:06:33:03
Salli Gonzalez
Right. That's a great.
00:06:33:08 - 00:06:34:08
Dr. Paul
Section.
00:06:34:13 - 00:06:44:10
Salli Gonzalez
Right. So yes, I had my little boy at home and, then from there, I'm, I'm, I'm having all home births. You know, I just, I.
00:06:44:11 - 00:06:45:44
Dr. Paul
You had six kids, so you had the rest.
00:06:45:44 - 00:06:52:44
Salli Gonzalez
Of it all together. Yes. So the last we were born in Oregon, by the way, with the same midwife.
00:06:52:49 - 00:06:54:36
Dr. Paul
Wow. You live in Oregon now?
00:06:54:40 - 00:06:56:01
Salli Gonzalez
No, I don't I live in Texas.
00:06:56:16 - 00:06:57:15
Dr. Paul
Okay, that's what I thought.
00:06:57:26 - 00:07:08:58
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah. The first three babies were born in Bakersfield, California, and then we moved to, Medford area, and the rest were born with the same midwife there.
00:07:09:03 - 00:07:16:36
Dr. Paul
Wow. That's quite a personal journey. And then you chose, I guess, to have a career in midwifery.
00:07:16:42 - 00:07:45:18
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah. So. So, you know, I, I started teaching classes and kind of working my way into the hospital with people to, support them as a doula. That was well before the word doula was coined. I was a labor support person. And so, I was, of course, pregnant and having babies and breastfeeding. So it wasn't, you know, that wasn't the focus of my career at that time.
00:07:45:22 - 00:08:09:17
Salli Gonzalez
I was definitely, full time mother. But my my own midwife, I think it was. Must have been with my last baby. So she said you should come work with me. And I'm just looking at her like I've got a newborn and all these small children. How do you do that? But, I the the thought never left my mind.
00:08:09:17 - 00:08:34:52
Salli Gonzalez
And so eventually I started researching. How do you become a midwife? And by then we're back in Texas, and, my youngest is like 6 or 7 years old, and I'm doing doula work again. And, one of my clients wanted to have a home birth. And so I'm like, well, let's find you a midwife. And so we met with a midwife.
00:08:34:52 - 00:08:59:52
Salli Gonzalez
And during that visit afterwards, I asked her, how do you do this process? And she told me how she went through it and she went to school. And in our in our model, we, we do the academic portion, of course, but when you sign up with, the program that I went through, you need to have what we call a preceptor.
00:08:59:57 - 00:09:27:25
Salli Gonzalez
And so you work one on one side by side with this preceptor, learning everything she knows. So you learn how to do blood pressures and take blood, and you learn how to do what we call palpate the belly to know how the baby's lying. It's all hands on, and it's really wonderful. Of course, you go to birth and you get to witness that for a while until eventually you're putting your hands down there and you're catching babies.
00:09:27:30 - 00:09:59:29
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah, and that's the model that I teach. I have two students currently. I always seem to have a student around, which is really lovely. I've probably taught 1012 by now. Through this, this program. Wow. And so that's kind of my career. I've, you know, I own the birth center for a few years, and now I'm cutting back a little bit in order to focus on the home birth aspect.
00:09:59:34 - 00:10:09:46
Salli Gonzalez
And so we've always done home birth. You know, the original owner and I always loved home birth. And we wanted to keep that part of our practice.
00:10:09:51 - 00:10:35:55
Dr. Paul
Yeah. I know, I mean, think about it. Since the beginning of time. Since. Right, moms were having babies, without ob gyn, without hospitals, without birthing centers. I mean, it was just something there would be. The elder women who've been through it would help the younger women. Exactly. And then in our more modern society, we've got layers, right?
00:10:35:57 - 00:10:53:15
Dr. Paul
I mean, there are people trying to do it with no support. Then there's people who have a doula. And the more experienced the doula, obviously, the they're almost like a midwife. And then you've got midwives with a ton of experience like yourself who've had training, and then you have certified midwives who went through nursing and then became midwives.
00:10:53:19 - 00:11:13:35
Dr. Paul
And then you have the ob gyn and that level of care that, but I know from having lived with my mom, I've been around her and her journey. There are really great reasons to choose a home birth. What what would you say are some of the big reasons for choosing home birth?
00:11:13:40 - 00:11:39:57
Salli Gonzalez
The peaceful setting, being able to walk around and eat and drink at will, being able to sleep, hospitals are, you know, they're not conducive to sleeping, you know, because you're, you're in your own bed. When you're at home, you're more comfortable. You can go to the refrigerator to get a snack. And we emphasize resting in early labor a lot.
00:11:39:57 - 00:12:07:55
Salli Gonzalez
So we're, we're encouraging people to do that. And, you know, if you were, we don't call we you're not strapped to a bed, but it kind of feels like that when, Yeah. Right. When you have a monitor, you know, the monitors on your belly and a blood pressure cuff on your arm and an IV in the other, and you're you're kind of laying there going, well, I need the move that I don't think I can move.
00:12:08:00 - 00:12:32:54
Salli Gonzalez
And it's just it's very cumbersome. We do. You know, I did encourage people to get up and walk around when I was the. And in those settings, of course. But as you know, hospitals are not your home and you don't necessarily get, familiar person. You'll get a nurse that you've never met before, possibly a doctor you've never met before.
00:12:32:54 - 00:13:05:43
Salli Gonzalez
So, when we say when you're in labor, you need to get into the labor state. And so when you're around strangers or you're in an unfamiliar place, it's very hard to get into that, hormonal state to facilitate your labor. Obviously, people do it, but it's not as easy in a hospital setting. So that's one reason why we love home birth, because labor seems to flow so much better.
00:13:05:48 - 00:13:29:06
Salli Gonzalez
From one stage to the next, from from progression to progression. And, we do offer water birth. So, as moms, getting into that more active phase, you can climb into a deep water tub and get relief that way, of course, you can always take a shower. She can do all the things that she would normally do, in her own home.
00:13:29:10 - 00:13:51:48
Salli Gonzalez
And then, of course, as far as the birth, that's my favorite part, actually. It's where the baby comes out and and, if mom's in the water, she brings the baby up out of the water, or the midwife helps her and brings the baby straight to her chest. You know, it's if I'm catching the baby. I put the baby right on, mom.
00:13:51:53 - 00:14:15:55
Salli Gonzalez
And then we cover the baby and mom with a warm towel. Baby goes skin. The skin immediately. As you know, babies are in a warm, place. They don't get, you know, they don't have hunger. They don't know. Obviously, it's quieter inside the womb. And so when they come forth, they're. It's a whole different, different world for them.
00:14:15:55 - 00:14:42:55
Salli Gonzalez
They're, you know, it's cold comparatively, even though we keep the room very warm. Compared to being inside, it's a, you know, colder outside it's brighter, it's noisier, and it's a bit of a shock. For them, being born is just it just is. So the thing that they want and the thing that they're looking for immediately is to be skin to skin with their mom.
00:14:43:00 - 00:15:04:47
Salli Gonzalez
They're looking for their mom and they're looking for their dad. Those two people have been their life for the last nine months. Yes. If there's, you know, older children around, of course they're part of it, too. I mean, the baby hears them chattering away and hugging mom's belly and telling her, I love you. And so the baby's looking for that, too.
00:15:04:47 - 00:15:33:16
Salli Gonzalez
It's very special. So that's a very good reason to, have a home birth hormonally. If you don't have medication. Of course we don't. And in a home birth setting, mom and baby exchanged hormones throughout that whole process. And so as the babies being born, oxytocin surge is very strong through the mother system and therefore through the baby's system.
00:15:33:21 - 00:15:58:33
Salli Gonzalez
And the oxytocin flowing through the mom causes her uterus to clamp down and expel her placenta, and that causes the baby to have a sense of well-being, a sense of safety. And that helps. The baby takes those first breaths. So those things are so important. And we keep the room dim. We keep the room quiet or not chattering.
00:15:58:33 - 00:16:19:49
Salli Gonzalez
We, you know, we don't even really listen to the baby for vitals because if the baby's breathing and crying, obviously the baby's fine. So we don't want to interrupt that process. We want to keep that sacred moment intact for that baby and for the parents. It's very, very special. So that's my favorite reason to have a home birth.
00:16:19:54 - 00:16:22:15
Salli Gonzalez
Just to watch that unfold is so special.
00:16:22:20 - 00:16:46:26
Dr. Paul
Wow. It sounds amazing because you're instead of a stress welcome to the world. And it's all stress. I mean, the hospital birth, my goodness, lights and cold. And, let's give you a hepatitis B shot in the vitamin K, shot in the right out of the womb, sometimes within minutes. It's just the difference to what, you.
00:16:46:31 - 00:16:46:39
Salli Gonzalez
Know.
00:16:46:43 - 00:16:48:10
Dr. Paul
Thrived.
00:16:48:15 - 00:16:51:28
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah, it's kind of an assault. I mean, that's the way it feels to the baby.
00:16:51:30 - 00:16:52:00
Dr. Paul
Yeah.
00:16:52:00 - 00:17:00:23
Salli Gonzalez
You know, you don't obviously, do that. And, we don't even want to take the baby from the mom, for a couple of hours.
00:17:00:28 - 00:17:00:53
Dr. Paul
Yeah.
00:17:00:53 - 00:17:05:25
Salli Gonzalez
So as long as things are fine, we're going to let them bond together.
00:17:05:27 - 00:17:20:52
Dr. Paul
Yeah. What you described about being in the zone, it just felt like for mom. You you. I imagine I'm a guy. I haven't had to go through this. But you've got to relax to be able to let a baby pass through. I mean.
00:17:20:52 - 00:17:21:45
Salli Gonzalez
It's. Oh, yeah.
00:17:21:49 - 00:17:35:24
Dr. Paul
When you're all tight and tense, it's probably not going to happen. Which is a big reason there's so many C-sections in the hospital environment. Your C-section rate for, for, your career is, is about what?
00:17:35:28 - 00:17:45:56
Salli Gonzalez
I mean, I don't know, I don't necessarily keep those stats, but we do kind of, we do keep track of our transport rate. Obviously not all of the transports.
00:17:45:57 - 00:17:52:11
Dr. Paul
That's true. You wouldn't you wouldn't know if they end up in CCS. Yeah. What percentage do end up needing to be transported to the hospital?
00:17:52:16 - 00:17:53:25
Salli Gonzalez
About 10%.
00:17:53:30 - 00:17:55:35
Dr. Paul
About 10%. Okay.
00:17:55:40 - 00:18:21:19
Salli Gonzalez
And that's usually for an epidural. If a mom is has been in labor for a long time. You know, two nights have gone by and she hasn't had very much rest. Sometimes in that case, the body just kind of backs off, and and dilation doesn't necessarily happen. If she can rest, obviously we're going to encourage her to do that.
00:18:21:24 - 00:18:33:18
Salli Gonzalez
You know, refuel, get some sleep. But sometimes that labor just does not stop. And so, getting an epidural would be the next option in order for her to have a vaginal birth.
00:18:33:22 - 00:18:44:59
Dr. Paul
Yeah. No, that definitely happened with a couple of my kids. I don't think it would have happened without the epidural, although we weren't doing that at home. So I will have to rethink that.
00:18:45:10 - 00:18:59:19
Salli Gonzalez
And, you know, if you're in the hospital and you intend to have a natural birth without medication, it's very hard to to decline it or, you know, not reach out for that because, you know, it's around the corner right there. Yeah. Absolutely.
00:18:59:19 - 00:18:59:30
Dr. Paul
Right.
00:18:59:30 - 00:19:20:19
Salli Gonzalez
And I you know, I like to kind of tell the story, my sister in law had had a baby six months before I had my first. And, she's like, you're going to need that epidural. And I'm thinking to myself, my mom did this and my grandmother did this before epidurals. I think I can do that.
00:19:20:19 - 00:19:39:28
Salli Gonzalez
I'm not saying anything to her, but I thought that to myself, and I kind of took it as a challenge, you know? I'm like, I'm just going to go in and I'm going to do this. I was offered Demerol. But way back then, that's what they offered. Yeah. Yep. Didn't nothing for the pain, when I was having my first.
00:19:39:28 - 00:19:59:34
Salli Gonzalez
And so all it did was, make me nauseous and slow down my. It literally slowed down my labor. And so they ended up augmenting with Patterson. So I learned more after that. I'm like, okay, so you need to stay upright. I'm walking around and eating and drinking. I mean, they don't let you do that in the hospital.
00:19:59:34 - 00:20:11:01
Salli Gonzalez
You're getting an IV, and that's the extent of it. Maybe some ice chips, but when you're, you know, when you're walking around the eating and drinking, things seem to go so much better. It did for me, for sure.
00:20:11:01 - 00:20:22:00
Dr. Paul
It sounds amazing. I have a daughter who just had her first birth at home and with, with the tub. It was, incredible. It was a long experience, but they got through it.
00:20:22:00 - 00:20:24:05
Salli Gonzalez
And this is our first baby.
00:20:24:10 - 00:20:25:13
Dr. Paul
First baby?
00:20:25:18 - 00:20:25:49
Salli Gonzalez
That's great.
00:20:26:00 - 00:20:41:06
Dr. Paul
Which was like, pretty cool, pretty amazing. So talk a little bit about delayed cord clamping in the pediatric world that I was in. I'm now retired. You know, we we gave lip service to it. We supported it, but it was like for a few minutes.
00:20:41:11 - 00:20:41:41
Salli Gonzalez
Right.
00:20:41:46 - 00:20:54:10
Dr. Paul
My understanding is the delayed cord clamping that you're talking about with a home birth is more extensive. And. Oh, yes, maybe explain what you feel are the benefits of that.
00:20:54:15 - 00:21:16:45
Salli Gonzalez
So we often delivered the placenta with the baby still attached. I mean, that would be the standard in our care. In the water. You know, the baby's on on mom. And she was, like, so enthralled with this new babies, she forgets that she's needing to deliver a placenta. And I'm like, are you having any cramping? And she's like, oh, yeah, I guess I am.
00:21:16:45 - 00:21:42:16
Salli Gonzalez
And so we deliver that placenta in the water sometimes. And we plop it into a bowl and we just leave it there. I mean, mom and baby are bonding. That's cooing to the baby. I mean, they're they're enthralled. And so we just leave it there. If mom needs to get out sometimes we're carrying that bowl all next to the mom as she's walking to the bed.
00:21:42:21 - 00:22:05:45
Salli Gonzalez
And the benefits to that are, leaving that intact, for as long as possible. Actually gives the baby a third more of their blood. I mean, they're that's the baby's blood in the placenta. If you clamp and cut that cord right away, immediately, the baby can lose a third of their blood. That's a lot. That's like almost a cup of blood.
00:22:05:57 - 00:22:30:31
Salli Gonzalez
And that's a lot for a newborn baby. So we're, you know, we know how important that is. And researchers showed that later in the infancy that iron levels will actually be higher, in a baby that's been allowed to have all their bad blood compared to the immediate cord clamping with other babies. So that's very, very important.
00:22:30:35 - 00:22:31:00
Dr. Paul
I mean, that.
00:22:31:00 - 00:22:32:14
Salli Gonzalez
Makes some managers.
00:22:32:25 - 00:22:37:46
Dr. Paul
And also now that I'm thinking about it, I mean, it's a closed system, so it should.
00:22:37:51 - 00:22:39:31
Salli Gonzalez
I say go back into the baby.
00:22:39:42 - 00:22:40:07
Dr. Paul
Right.
00:22:40:09 - 00:22:47:04
Salli Gonzalez
That does not happen, which I've heard. I actually had heard doctors say that. Yeah.
00:22:47:09 - 00:22:50:08
Dr. Paul
I. Are there any downsides to doing that. Because I.
00:22:50:08 - 00:23:17:21
Salli Gonzalez
I really haven't seen any. It's interesting because, we have a person to encapsulate her here at our office and, one time we completely forgot about clamping and cutting the cord. We had wrapped it in a chucks next to the baby and the mom and mom's passing baby back and forth between breast passing away and and the couple hours go by and we're like, oh, we have them clamped and cut the cord.
00:23:17:21 - 00:23:30:46
Salli Gonzalez
And so we did at that point, two hours later and our encapsulate or said, what did you guys do to that person that there was absolutely no blood in it? Oh that's crazy. That's it was still going to the baby.
00:23:30:51 - 00:23:55:43
Dr. Paul
Jaundice, which is that yellow color that babies get was almost universal in hospital deliveries. Do you see that? Now, the theory is that what pediatricians are taught is, well, newborn red, red blood cells break down quickly and release bilirubin. Yes. That's true. I think that's a true statement. And if that. So now I'm just shooting from the hip here.
00:23:55:43 - 00:24:06:52
Dr. Paul
You're going to you get a chance to correct me if I if that's so and you put more blood into the baby by delaying the, the cord clamping, aren't they at greater risk for jaundice.
00:24:06:57 - 00:24:31:06
Salli Gonzalez
I haven't seen that at all. I, I it's been a few years, since we've had a baby under Bailey lights. It just has. It just doesn't happen. Yeah, although they'll have a little tan color to their skin and occasionally, usually in their face. But we encourage the parents to take the baby out in the sun or take them toward a lighted window.
00:24:31:11 - 00:24:35:45
Salli Gonzalez
In nursing, as nurse nursing helps flush out that. Yeah.
00:24:35:50 - 00:24:45:12
Dr. Paul
Hitting the skin breaks it down and volume helps. So, yeah, you're confirming what I was suspecting was that it wasn't a problem.
00:24:45:17 - 00:25:10:54
Salli Gonzalez
And the the cord blood, you know, we now medical, people store the cord blood for diseases. And later in life, and they're doing all kinds of research on cord blood stem cells. It's full of stem cells. Those stem cells are the babies right. They they belong to the babies. They get to the baby.
00:25:10:54 - 00:25:12:36
Dr. Paul
They're the babies.
00:25:12:41 - 00:25:31:21
Salli Gonzalez
If the baby gets all their stem cells. What are we. You know, what are we depriving them of if we don't let them have that? Those are the repair cells of the body. And, yes, birth is stressful for a baby. You know, they're being squeezed through the birth canal. We're supposed to be born that way, but they are.
00:25:31:25 - 00:25:55:40
Salli Gonzalez
Sometimes they get a little bruised or banged up, especially with the first baby. But, those stem cells go and repair any bruises or bumps that the baby has. It's just really lovely. And of course, we don't know, what that baby needs, but the baby's body does. And or, of course, the stem cells do all that for them.
00:25:55:45 - 00:25:57:01
Salli Gonzalez
It's really great.
00:25:57:06 - 00:25:58:36
Dr. Paul
Stem cells are incredible.
00:25:58:36 - 00:25:58:52
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah.
00:25:58:52 - 00:26:04:09
Dr. Paul
I bring up such a great point. Why not allow your baby to have all their own stem cells? That's a.
00:26:04:09 - 00:26:04:43
Salli Gonzalez
That might be a.
00:26:04:43 - 00:26:05:34
Dr. Paul
Concept.
00:26:05:39 - 00:26:13:13
Salli Gonzalez
They might be healthier, you know, in every realm. You know, it may prevent cancer later in life or heart disease. We don't even know.
00:26:13:15 - 00:26:22:08
Dr. Paul
Yeah. Yeah. That's phenomenal. So after birth, what what support are you providing as a midwife?
00:26:22:13 - 00:26:50:57
Salli Gonzalez
So I feel like, our care's in a way superior to, that, I don't want to bash jobs, but, of course, they're very busy, and and we actually give out our cell phone numbers, so, a client can call or text any day, any time, day or night, if they have any sort of questions after the baby's born, because that's when all the big questions come up, because they've never if they're a first time parent, they've never done this before.
00:26:50:57 - 00:27:13:57
Salli Gonzalez
And so we want to be available for that. That's the first thing. And I do check in with them after we leave. We usually they're around four hours after the birth, doing the vitals and cleaning up and doing things like that. And then I check in with them about 12 hours after birth to see how things are going.
00:27:14:01 - 00:27:39:53
Salli Gonzalez
And then again, the next morning. So I'm checking with them often, and they, I am available for them to check in with me. We usually do a home visit again around 24 to 48 hours. So we're going back and doing vitals and checking the baby. And talking about nursing, how all that's going. And, asking any questions.
00:27:39:53 - 00:28:01:34
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah. Answering any questions they have, we check mom's bleeding. We're just we're really on that. As far as, the babies in the mom's health is concerned, immediately after birth. And then, they come back to our office at two weeks and then again at six weeks. And so we're doing all the same vitals again.
00:28:01:34 - 00:28:29:42
Salli Gonzalez
And we're talking about breast feeding and how things are going. I always check in to see if the baby's having, wets and poops. Of course. Because that's how we know babies transferring milk. Well, And we want to get on it right away. If, baby is not having their quota of what? Some poops, we want to be able to either have mom pump or we, we do have donor milk that we can provide.
00:28:29:46 - 00:28:34:06
Dr. Paul
Wow. That's awesome. Part of your vitals is probably weighing the baby.
00:28:34:11 - 00:28:38:58
Salli Gonzalez
Weighing the baby, of course, listening to their heart and lungs.
00:28:39:03 - 00:28:51:51
Dr. Paul
I mean, you're really taking care of those key issues that a pediatrician would take care of. I mean, you've got them well covered. And the fact that you given out your cell phone, that's so reassuring to a couple.
00:28:51:55 - 00:28:52:33
Salli Gonzalez
It is.
00:28:52:38 - 00:29:02:09
Dr. Paul
That is just had a baby. I mean, to know that right there, your your main support person is directly available. I mean, that's just beautiful.
00:29:02:14 - 00:29:04:15
Salli Gonzalez
It's my favorite part.
00:29:04:20 - 00:29:27:14
Dr. Paul
So what? So as a pediatrician, when I was in practice and I was really trying to do everything I could to promote breastfeeding, although unfortunately we did not have a lactation specialist in our office, not till the very end. It was just hard, logistic wise, but I'm curious. I mean, it felt to me like we had way too many failures at breastfeeding.
00:29:27:19 - 00:29:32:31
Dr. Paul
What's what's the rate of success in breastfeeding for your population?
00:29:32:36 - 00:30:08:13
Salli Gonzalez
I mean, I would say 95%. I mean, it's it's pretty rare for, a mom not to be not to breastfeed. Of course, you know, there are physical issues occasionally. Where the mom doesn't have enough, enough breast tissue. But we we work really hard at it. Of course. If we have a mom who has a set of twins who have the twins a couple of weeks ago, and, she wasn't able to, exclusively breastfeed with her first baby.
00:30:08:18 - 00:30:38:48
Salli Gonzalez
But with this set of twins, she's able to breastfeed because we got those babies latched as soon as possible. So, we, had donor milk on hand in case she needed it. And so we were just really prepared for her to be able to get those babies breast milk. She has, you know, low, low amount of breast tissue, but she's, working with that, and she's giving them donor milk at the same time.
00:30:38:48 - 00:30:45:44
Salli Gonzalez
So that seems to be working much better this time. So we're we're all about breastfeeding. We just.
00:30:45:44 - 00:31:07:09
Dr. Paul
Fantastic. Yeah. I had one experience, mom. It was her fifth or sixth baby, and she had never had problems breastfeeding. And she ended up having she thought she was done having babies. So she had a breast reduction and then then got pregnant and she really was struggling. You know, sometimes the reduction will disrupt the ducts. And she was struggling with she did not want to do formula.
00:31:07:09 - 00:31:30:25
Dr. Paul
And at about 4 to 5 months she was nursing almost constantly like it was like, Mama Bear, I'm going to be successful. And she was with whatever little connection there was left, she was to ramp up the production. I was like, wow, that was a real testament to it. I have one, perhaps odd question for you, and you may or may or may not be able to answer this one.
00:31:30:30 - 00:31:46:32
Dr. Paul
Feel free to say I don't know since we've gone through Covid and then we went through the vaccines for so many people, ended up taking those shots, which I don't like to call them vaccines. Honestly, there have been reports of spike protein coming through breast milk. When you get your donor milk, are you able to screen for that or.
00:31:46:33 - 00:31:47:09
Salli Gonzalez
Yes we do.
00:31:47:21 - 00:31:48:17
Dr. Paul
Do you screen for that?
00:31:48:17 - 00:32:00:21
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah we do, we don't test the blood. You know, we don't test the milk or anything like that. But we know our clients very well. I mean, we have those conversations. Well.
00:32:00:26 - 00:32:03:03
Dr. Paul
Our donors who weren't exactly right.
00:32:03:08 - 00:32:28:57
Salli Gonzalez
Right. And most of our donor milk, I would say all of it is from our own clients. So we know them very well. We're doing their blood tests at the beginning of their pregnancies, and we're talking about vaccines a lot. So we're we know their stand on, any vaccine and, the Covid vaccine especially. So none of them are taking that.
00:32:29:01 - 00:32:48:00
Dr. Paul
Fantastic. Really great. Wow. Well, Sally, I'm going to give you the final words. We're running out of time. This has been so informative. You are in Georgetown, Texas, correct? That's right. So, if people were near enough to you to have you support them, how would they find you?
00:32:48:04 - 00:33:07:52
Salli Gonzalez
I don't have a website currently, but, they can call my cell phone number. I'm starting another business, so I'm kind of getting that, set up and running. But they can email me, Sally at new Hope midwifery dot.
00:33:07:52 - 00:33:22:35
Dr. Paul
Com if we've got, prospective parents who are wrestling with the. Should I have this baby at home and a birthing center in the hospital? Talk to them just for the few minutes. A couple minutes?
00:33:22:40 - 00:33:50:34
Salli Gonzalez
Well, childbirth is a very, very special, event. And so I encourage everyone to look into their options. You can look into home births. There's lots of home birth midwives. And in all areas of the country, I definitely encourage you to research as much, as much as possible. Einem is guide to childbirth is a great place to start.
00:33:50:39 - 00:34:18:32
Salli Gonzalez
I am a asking, was a midwife from the 70s, and, she kind of brought home birth back. In, you know, in, in our culture. So she's she's a good resource. But I would definitely explore all your options. There's lots of good reasons to have your baby. Naturally. Either in a nursing or at home.
00:34:18:37 - 00:34:53:04
Dr. Paul
I would second that because having been a pediatrician who attended hospital births, or at least came after the birth, for almost all our babies, yeah, the experience has gotten more and more medicalized, more and more protocol driven. And you basically seem to lose control of what's happening once you sign into the hospital. I mean, things like the hepatitis B shot and the vitamin K shot are automatic when you sign in and give permission to be hospitalized for your baby.
00:34:53:12 - 00:35:13:15
Dr. Paul
Actually, somewhere in there are words that give them permission to do those things so they can happen instantly upon the birth of your child, even if you actually didn't want it to happen. But you weren't aware that by signing in you gave you gave permission. So I love your recommendation. Do your research. Check out your resources. And Sally.
00:35:13:15 - 00:35:20:13
Dr. Paul
Oh my gosh, I wish I could have been near you when we were having babies. Of course, we're about the same age. So that was.
00:35:20:18 - 00:35:25:04
Salli Gonzalez
That's true. Yeah. So good to meet you. Thank you so much for having me on.
00:35:25:09 - 00:35:45:12
Dr. Paul
Thank you for being on the show. Well, there you have it, folks. Wow. There are other ways to go through the birthing process. I hope that was informative and enjoyable to you. I have another show at Doctors and science.com. It's called With the Wind and you can reach me personally at Kids First Forever. Thank you. I look forward to seeing you next week.
00:35:50:31 - 00:36:16:25
Dr. Paul
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
00:36:16:31 - 00:36:23:47
Dr. Paul
I'm Dr. Paul.
Speaker Times:
- Salli Gonzalez: 70.12%
- Dr. Paul: 29.88%
00:00:40:28 - 00:01:05:39
Dr. Paul
VAX facts this book hits bookstores December 10th. You can get a copy now by going to VAX Facts book.com, where you can get a signed author's copy, where you can order an e-book, or you can also preorder the book if you are seeing this message before December 10th. You can also order this book at any bookseller, any bookstore, wherever books are sold, and preorder your copy.
00:01:05:53 - 00:01:16:16
Dr. Paul
Get this book for your loved ones, for your family, for yourself, and let's get healthy.
00:01:35:06 - 00:01:56:04
Dr. Paul
Good morning, and welcome to Pediatric Perspectives, where we are looking at children's health challenges with a different perspective, one that includes critical thinking and is not afraid to ask tough questions. Give you the honest truth. My guest today is Sally Gonzalez. Welcome, Sally. It's so good to have you on the show.
00:01:56:09 - 00:01:57:43
Salli Gonzalez
Thank you for having me.
00:01:57:48 - 00:02:16:40
Dr. Paul
So my mom was a nurse midwife most of her career after having been a missionary in, Rhodesia, Zimbabwe now. So, she did the latter part of her career. She did a lot of home births. That was primarily what she was doing along with teaching other midwives. You've been a midwife for over 16 years. You've worked in birth centers.
00:02:16:40 - 00:02:24:23
Dr. Paul
You've done a lot of home births. Maybe just start off by sharing what got you into midwifery.
00:02:24:28 - 00:02:54:23
Salli Gonzalez
Well, I was a mother first. I had my first baby in the hospital. Typically, how they go with augmentation, with pitocin and the monitoring and the aid and all that. And, it was, you know, the typical labor, it wasn't, it wasn't too bad as far as they go, but I didn't know any different. And as I went along, I just kind of thought, well, how can this be more enjoyable?
00:02:54:28 - 00:03:16:31
Salli Gonzalez
And a birth center had opened in my town, and I was pregnant with my second baby. And I said, I'm going to try that. And, just became more informed. I decided I was going to eat better and exercise more and just really dig in to a deeper as far as my health and taking care of my baby.
00:03:16:36 - 00:03:41:42
Salli Gonzalez
And the birth center experience was like a night and day difference. It was run by doctors. I was they were obese in the area, but they hired nurses that were very similar to midwives. In my opinion. Because they came in and they stayed with you and, stayed throughout your labor and, I didn't have continuous monitoring.
00:03:41:46 - 00:04:04:17
Salli Gonzalez
I didn't have the I.V., I didn't have all the things that I'd had with my first birth, and it was just so much more enjoyable. So it basically changed my life. And I wanted to tell others how fun, really fun births can be. So after that, I started studying on my own to become a childbirth educator.
00:04:04:22 - 00:04:27:08
Salli Gonzalez
And as I was studying, I'm like, I need to learn more about nutrition. So I'm diving into nutrition books and realizing that, our diet is not so great. So I go to the pantry and start throwing out all the packaged foods and the junk foods, and my husband's like, what are you doing? And I said, we're embarking on something new and wonderful.
00:04:27:13 - 00:04:58:17
Salli Gonzalez
And, so that's kind of how it all went, you know, as I got deeper into the natural space of things, I just kind of realized, I need to take charge of my family's health, and, the rest is kind of history as far as that's concerned. But, I obviously was getting pregnant again. And with my third baby, I'm thinking to myself, I think I could do this at home.
00:04:58:22 - 00:05:24:27
Salli Gonzalez
And so I was like, is that safe? And I and I wanted to, you know, just kind of learn more about that too. So I, went to the library. That's way before the internet, of course. And, discovered that, midwifery care home birth is safe, just as safe as hospital birth. And so I'm like, okay, we'll do this.
00:05:24:31 - 00:05:47:52
Salli Gonzalez
As the pregnancy went on, I discovered that my son I was carrying was breech, and that was a whole new, perspective that I had to learn about. And so, again, I go to the library and I get a stack of books, and I pore through them, and, and, I realized that with an experienced provider, I could easily have a breech both at home.
00:05:47:52 - 00:05:51:25
Salli Gonzalez
And so this third baby was born breech.
00:05:51:30 - 00:05:51:57
Dr. Paul
Wow.
00:05:51:57 - 00:05:53:42
Salli Gonzalez
And then at home.
00:05:53:46 - 00:05:57:28
Dr. Paul
That's that takes a an experienced provider with courage.
00:05:57:33 - 00:06:12:55
Salli Gonzalez
Oh yeah. She, she definitely had the experience. When we discovered she was breech which was basically a week before he was born. She didn't want to influence me in any way. And so that's why I went to the library and got.
00:06:13:00 - 00:06:27:49
Dr. Paul
I have an ObGyn friend who delivers breech at home all the time, and he says my colleagues use breech as a contraindication for home birth. Right? Yes. Most doctors would say, oh no, you can't deliver breech at home. But you did.
00:06:27:49 - 00:06:30:51
Salli Gonzalez
It. A lot of them won't even try it in the hospital.
00:06:30:51 - 00:06:31:35
Dr. Paul
Right?
00:06:31:40 - 00:06:33:03
Salli Gonzalez
Right. That's a great.
00:06:33:08 - 00:06:34:08
Dr. Paul
Section.
00:06:34:13 - 00:06:44:10
Salli Gonzalez
Right. So yes, I had my little boy at home and, then from there, I'm, I'm, I'm having all home births. You know, I just, I.
00:06:44:11 - 00:06:45:44
Dr. Paul
You had six kids, so you had the rest.
00:06:45:44 - 00:06:52:44
Salli Gonzalez
Of it all together. Yes. So the last we were born in Oregon, by the way, with the same midwife.
00:06:52:49 - 00:06:54:36
Dr. Paul
Wow. You live in Oregon now?
00:06:54:40 - 00:06:56:01
Salli Gonzalez
No, I don't I live in Texas.
00:06:56:16 - 00:06:57:15
Dr. Paul
Okay, that's what I thought.
00:06:57:26 - 00:07:08:58
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah. The first three babies were born in Bakersfield, California, and then we moved to, Medford area, and the rest were born with the same midwife there.
00:07:09:03 - 00:07:16:36
Dr. Paul
Wow. That's quite a personal journey. And then you chose, I guess, to have a career in midwifery.
00:07:16:42 - 00:07:45:18
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah. So. So, you know, I, I started teaching classes and kind of working my way into the hospital with people to, support them as a doula. That was well before the word doula was coined. I was a labor support person. And so, I was, of course, pregnant and having babies and breastfeeding. So it wasn't, you know, that wasn't the focus of my career at that time.
00:07:45:22 - 00:08:09:17
Salli Gonzalez
I was definitely, full time mother. But my my own midwife, I think it was. Must have been with my last baby. So she said you should come work with me. And I'm just looking at her like I've got a newborn and all these small children. How do you do that? But, I the the thought never left my mind.
00:08:09:17 - 00:08:34:52
Salli Gonzalez
And so eventually I started researching. How do you become a midwife? And by then we're back in Texas, and, my youngest is like 6 or 7 years old, and I'm doing doula work again. And, one of my clients wanted to have a home birth. And so I'm like, well, let's find you a midwife. And so we met with a midwife.
00:08:34:52 - 00:08:59:52
Salli Gonzalez
And during that visit afterwards, I asked her, how do you do this process? And she told me how she went through it and she went to school. And in our in our model, we, we do the academic portion, of course, but when you sign up with, the program that I went through, you need to have what we call a preceptor.
00:08:59:57 - 00:09:27:25
Salli Gonzalez
And so you work one on one side by side with this preceptor, learning everything she knows. So you learn how to do blood pressures and take blood, and you learn how to do what we call palpate the belly to know how the baby's lying. It's all hands on, and it's really wonderful. Of course, you go to birth and you get to witness that for a while until eventually you're putting your hands down there and you're catching babies.
00:09:27:30 - 00:09:59:29
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah, and that's the model that I teach. I have two students currently. I always seem to have a student around, which is really lovely. I've probably taught 1012 by now. Through this, this program. Wow. And so that's kind of my career. I've, you know, I own the birth center for a few years, and now I'm cutting back a little bit in order to focus on the home birth aspect.
00:09:59:34 - 00:10:09:46
Salli Gonzalez
And so we've always done home birth. You know, the original owner and I always loved home birth. And we wanted to keep that part of our practice.
00:10:09:51 - 00:10:35:55
Dr. Paul
Yeah. I know, I mean, think about it. Since the beginning of time. Since. Right, moms were having babies, without ob gyn, without hospitals, without birthing centers. I mean, it was just something there would be. The elder women who've been through it would help the younger women. Exactly. And then in our more modern society, we've got layers, right?
00:10:35:57 - 00:10:53:15
Dr. Paul
I mean, there are people trying to do it with no support. Then there's people who have a doula. And the more experienced the doula, obviously, the they're almost like a midwife. And then you've got midwives with a ton of experience like yourself who've had training, and then you have certified midwives who went through nursing and then became midwives.
00:10:53:19 - 00:11:13:35
Dr. Paul
And then you have the ob gyn and that level of care that, but I know from having lived with my mom, I've been around her and her journey. There are really great reasons to choose a home birth. What what would you say are some of the big reasons for choosing home birth?
00:11:13:40 - 00:11:39:57
Salli Gonzalez
The peaceful setting, being able to walk around and eat and drink at will, being able to sleep, hospitals are, you know, they're not conducive to sleeping, you know, because you're, you're in your own bed. When you're at home, you're more comfortable. You can go to the refrigerator to get a snack. And we emphasize resting in early labor a lot.
00:11:39:57 - 00:12:07:55
Salli Gonzalez
So we're, we're encouraging people to do that. And, you know, if you were, we don't call we you're not strapped to a bed, but it kind of feels like that when, Yeah. Right. When you have a monitor, you know, the monitors on your belly and a blood pressure cuff on your arm and an IV in the other, and you're you're kind of laying there going, well, I need the move that I don't think I can move.
00:12:08:00 - 00:12:32:54
Salli Gonzalez
And it's just it's very cumbersome. We do. You know, I did encourage people to get up and walk around when I was the. And in those settings, of course. But as you know, hospitals are not your home and you don't necessarily get, familiar person. You'll get a nurse that you've never met before, possibly a doctor you've never met before.
00:12:32:54 - 00:13:05:43
Salli Gonzalez
So, when we say when you're in labor, you need to get into the labor state. And so when you're around strangers or you're in an unfamiliar place, it's very hard to get into that, hormonal state to facilitate your labor. Obviously, people do it, but it's not as easy in a hospital setting. So that's one reason why we love home birth, because labor seems to flow so much better.
00:13:05:48 - 00:13:29:06
Salli Gonzalez
From one stage to the next, from from progression to progression. And, we do offer water birth. So, as moms, getting into that more active phase, you can climb into a deep water tub and get relief that way, of course, you can always take a shower. She can do all the things that she would normally do, in her own home.
00:13:29:10 - 00:13:51:48
Salli Gonzalez
And then, of course, as far as the birth, that's my favorite part, actually. It's where the baby comes out and and, if mom's in the water, she brings the baby up out of the water, or the midwife helps her and brings the baby straight to her chest. You know, it's if I'm catching the baby. I put the baby right on, mom.
00:13:51:53 - 00:14:15:55
Salli Gonzalez
And then we cover the baby and mom with a warm towel. Baby goes skin. The skin immediately. As you know, babies are in a warm, place. They don't get, you know, they don't have hunger. They don't know. Obviously, it's quieter inside the womb. And so when they come forth, they're. It's a whole different, different world for them.
00:14:15:55 - 00:14:42:55
Salli Gonzalez
They're, you know, it's cold comparatively, even though we keep the room very warm. Compared to being inside, it's a, you know, colder outside it's brighter, it's noisier, and it's a bit of a shock. For them, being born is just it just is. So the thing that they want and the thing that they're looking for immediately is to be skin to skin with their mom.
00:14:43:00 - 00:15:04:47
Salli Gonzalez
They're looking for their mom and they're looking for their dad. Those two people have been their life for the last nine months. Yes. If there's, you know, older children around, of course they're part of it, too. I mean, the baby hears them chattering away and hugging mom's belly and telling her, I love you. And so the baby's looking for that, too.
00:15:04:47 - 00:15:33:16
Salli Gonzalez
It's very special. So that's a very good reason to, have a home birth hormonally. If you don't have medication. Of course we don't. And in a home birth setting, mom and baby exchanged hormones throughout that whole process. And so as the babies being born, oxytocin surge is very strong through the mother system and therefore through the baby's system.
00:15:33:21 - 00:15:58:33
Salli Gonzalez
And the oxytocin flowing through the mom causes her uterus to clamp down and expel her placenta, and that causes the baby to have a sense of well-being, a sense of safety. And that helps. The baby takes those first breaths. So those things are so important. And we keep the room dim. We keep the room quiet or not chattering.
00:15:58:33 - 00:16:19:49
Salli Gonzalez
We, you know, we don't even really listen to the baby for vitals because if the baby's breathing and crying, obviously the baby's fine. So we don't want to interrupt that process. We want to keep that sacred moment intact for that baby and for the parents. It's very, very special. So that's my favorite reason to have a home birth.
00:16:19:54 - 00:16:22:15
Salli Gonzalez
Just to watch that unfold is so special.
00:16:22:20 - 00:16:46:26
Dr. Paul
Wow. It sounds amazing because you're instead of a stress welcome to the world. And it's all stress. I mean, the hospital birth, my goodness, lights and cold. And, let's give you a hepatitis B shot in the vitamin K, shot in the right out of the womb, sometimes within minutes. It's just the difference to what, you.
00:16:46:31 - 00:16:46:39
Salli Gonzalez
Know.
00:16:46:43 - 00:16:48:10
Dr. Paul
Thrived.
00:16:48:15 - 00:16:51:28
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah, it's kind of an assault. I mean, that's the way it feels to the baby.
00:16:51:30 - 00:16:52:00
Dr. Paul
Yeah.
00:16:52:00 - 00:17:00:23
Salli Gonzalez
You know, you don't obviously, do that. And, we don't even want to take the baby from the mom, for a couple of hours.
00:17:00:28 - 00:17:00:53
Dr. Paul
Yeah.
00:17:00:53 - 00:17:05:25
Salli Gonzalez
So as long as things are fine, we're going to let them bond together.
00:17:05:27 - 00:17:20:52
Dr. Paul
Yeah. What you described about being in the zone, it just felt like for mom. You you. I imagine I'm a guy. I haven't had to go through this. But you've got to relax to be able to let a baby pass through. I mean.
00:17:20:52 - 00:17:21:45
Salli Gonzalez
It's. Oh, yeah.
00:17:21:49 - 00:17:35:24
Dr. Paul
When you're all tight and tense, it's probably not going to happen. Which is a big reason there's so many C-sections in the hospital environment. Your C-section rate for, for, your career is, is about what?
00:17:35:28 - 00:17:45:56
Salli Gonzalez
I mean, I don't know, I don't necessarily keep those stats, but we do kind of, we do keep track of our transport rate. Obviously not all of the transports.
00:17:45:57 - 00:17:52:11
Dr. Paul
That's true. You wouldn't you wouldn't know if they end up in CCS. Yeah. What percentage do end up needing to be transported to the hospital?
00:17:52:16 - 00:17:53:25
Salli Gonzalez
About 10%.
00:17:53:30 - 00:17:55:35
Dr. Paul
About 10%. Okay.
00:17:55:40 - 00:18:21:19
Salli Gonzalez
And that's usually for an epidural. If a mom is has been in labor for a long time. You know, two nights have gone by and she hasn't had very much rest. Sometimes in that case, the body just kind of backs off, and and dilation doesn't necessarily happen. If she can rest, obviously we're going to encourage her to do that.
00:18:21:24 - 00:18:33:18
Salli Gonzalez
You know, refuel, get some sleep. But sometimes that labor just does not stop. And so, getting an epidural would be the next option in order for her to have a vaginal birth.
00:18:33:22 - 00:18:44:59
Dr. Paul
Yeah. No, that definitely happened with a couple of my kids. I don't think it would have happened without the epidural, although we weren't doing that at home. So I will have to rethink that.
00:18:45:10 - 00:18:59:19
Salli Gonzalez
And, you know, if you're in the hospital and you intend to have a natural birth without medication, it's very hard to to decline it or, you know, not reach out for that because, you know, it's around the corner right there. Yeah. Absolutely.
00:18:59:19 - 00:18:59:30
Dr. Paul
Right.
00:18:59:30 - 00:19:20:19
Salli Gonzalez
And I you know, I like to kind of tell the story, my sister in law had had a baby six months before I had my first. And, she's like, you're going to need that epidural. And I'm thinking to myself, my mom did this and my grandmother did this before epidurals. I think I can do that.
00:19:20:19 - 00:19:39:28
Salli Gonzalez
I'm not saying anything to her, but I thought that to myself, and I kind of took it as a challenge, you know? I'm like, I'm just going to go in and I'm going to do this. I was offered Demerol. But way back then, that's what they offered. Yeah. Yep. Didn't nothing for the pain, when I was having my first.
00:19:39:28 - 00:19:59:34
Salli Gonzalez
And so all it did was, make me nauseous and slow down my. It literally slowed down my labor. And so they ended up augmenting with Patterson. So I learned more after that. I'm like, okay, so you need to stay upright. I'm walking around and eating and drinking. I mean, they don't let you do that in the hospital.
00:19:59:34 - 00:20:11:01
Salli Gonzalez
You're getting an IV, and that's the extent of it. Maybe some ice chips, but when you're, you know, when you're walking around the eating and drinking, things seem to go so much better. It did for me, for sure.
00:20:11:01 - 00:20:22:00
Dr. Paul
It sounds amazing. I have a daughter who just had her first birth at home and with, with the tub. It was, incredible. It was a long experience, but they got through it.
00:20:22:00 - 00:20:24:05
Salli Gonzalez
And this is our first baby.
00:20:24:10 - 00:20:25:13
Dr. Paul
First baby?
00:20:25:18 - 00:20:25:49
Salli Gonzalez
That's great.
00:20:26:00 - 00:20:41:06
Dr. Paul
Which was like, pretty cool, pretty amazing. So talk a little bit about delayed cord clamping in the pediatric world that I was in. I'm now retired. You know, we we gave lip service to it. We supported it, but it was like for a few minutes.
00:20:41:11 - 00:20:41:41
Salli Gonzalez
Right.
00:20:41:46 - 00:20:54:10
Dr. Paul
My understanding is the delayed cord clamping that you're talking about with a home birth is more extensive. And. Oh, yes, maybe explain what you feel are the benefits of that.
00:20:54:15 - 00:21:16:45
Salli Gonzalez
So we often delivered the placenta with the baby still attached. I mean, that would be the standard in our care. In the water. You know, the baby's on on mom. And she was, like, so enthralled with this new babies, she forgets that she's needing to deliver a placenta. And I'm like, are you having any cramping? And she's like, oh, yeah, I guess I am.
00:21:16:45 - 00:21:42:16
Salli Gonzalez
And so we deliver that placenta in the water sometimes. And we plop it into a bowl and we just leave it there. I mean, mom and baby are bonding. That's cooing to the baby. I mean, they're they're enthralled. And so we just leave it there. If mom needs to get out sometimes we're carrying that bowl all next to the mom as she's walking to the bed.
00:21:42:21 - 00:22:05:45
Salli Gonzalez
And the benefits to that are, leaving that intact, for as long as possible. Actually gives the baby a third more of their blood. I mean, they're that's the baby's blood in the placenta. If you clamp and cut that cord right away, immediately, the baby can lose a third of their blood. That's a lot. That's like almost a cup of blood.
00:22:05:57 - 00:22:30:31
Salli Gonzalez
And that's a lot for a newborn baby. So we're, you know, we know how important that is. And researchers showed that later in the infancy that iron levels will actually be higher, in a baby that's been allowed to have all their bad blood compared to the immediate cord clamping with other babies. So that's very, very important.
00:22:30:35 - 00:22:31:00
Dr. Paul
I mean, that.
00:22:31:00 - 00:22:32:14
Salli Gonzalez
Makes some managers.
00:22:32:25 - 00:22:37:46
Dr. Paul
And also now that I'm thinking about it, I mean, it's a closed system, so it should.
00:22:37:51 - 00:22:39:31
Salli Gonzalez
I say go back into the baby.
00:22:39:42 - 00:22:40:07
Dr. Paul
Right.
00:22:40:09 - 00:22:47:04
Salli Gonzalez
That does not happen, which I've heard. I actually had heard doctors say that. Yeah.
00:22:47:09 - 00:22:50:08
Dr. Paul
I. Are there any downsides to doing that. Because I.
00:22:50:08 - 00:23:17:21
Salli Gonzalez
I really haven't seen any. It's interesting because, we have a person to encapsulate her here at our office and, one time we completely forgot about clamping and cutting the cord. We had wrapped it in a chucks next to the baby and the mom and mom's passing baby back and forth between breast passing away and and the couple hours go by and we're like, oh, we have them clamped and cut the cord.
00:23:17:21 - 00:23:30:46
Salli Gonzalez
And so we did at that point, two hours later and our encapsulate or said, what did you guys do to that person that there was absolutely no blood in it? Oh that's crazy. That's it was still going to the baby.
00:23:30:51 - 00:23:55:43
Dr. Paul
Jaundice, which is that yellow color that babies get was almost universal in hospital deliveries. Do you see that? Now, the theory is that what pediatricians are taught is, well, newborn red, red blood cells break down quickly and release bilirubin. Yes. That's true. I think that's a true statement. And if that. So now I'm just shooting from the hip here.
00:23:55:43 - 00:24:06:52
Dr. Paul
You're going to you get a chance to correct me if I if that's so and you put more blood into the baby by delaying the, the cord clamping, aren't they at greater risk for jaundice.
00:24:06:57 - 00:24:31:06
Salli Gonzalez
I haven't seen that at all. I, I it's been a few years, since we've had a baby under Bailey lights. It just has. It just doesn't happen. Yeah, although they'll have a little tan color to their skin and occasionally, usually in their face. But we encourage the parents to take the baby out in the sun or take them toward a lighted window.
00:24:31:11 - 00:24:35:45
Salli Gonzalez
In nursing, as nurse nursing helps flush out that. Yeah.
00:24:35:50 - 00:24:45:12
Dr. Paul
Hitting the skin breaks it down and volume helps. So, yeah, you're confirming what I was suspecting was that it wasn't a problem.
00:24:45:17 - 00:25:10:54
Salli Gonzalez
And the the cord blood, you know, we now medical, people store the cord blood for diseases. And later in life, and they're doing all kinds of research on cord blood stem cells. It's full of stem cells. Those stem cells are the babies right. They they belong to the babies. They get to the baby.
00:25:10:54 - 00:25:12:36
Dr. Paul
They're the babies.
00:25:12:41 - 00:25:31:21
Salli Gonzalez
If the baby gets all their stem cells. What are we. You know, what are we depriving them of if we don't let them have that? Those are the repair cells of the body. And, yes, birth is stressful for a baby. You know, they're being squeezed through the birth canal. We're supposed to be born that way, but they are.
00:25:31:25 - 00:25:55:40
Salli Gonzalez
Sometimes they get a little bruised or banged up, especially with the first baby. But, those stem cells go and repair any bruises or bumps that the baby has. It's just really lovely. And of course, we don't know, what that baby needs, but the baby's body does. And or, of course, the stem cells do all that for them.
00:25:55:45 - 00:25:57:01
Salli Gonzalez
It's really great.
00:25:57:06 - 00:25:58:36
Dr. Paul
Stem cells are incredible.
00:25:58:36 - 00:25:58:52
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah.
00:25:58:52 - 00:26:04:09
Dr. Paul
I bring up such a great point. Why not allow your baby to have all their own stem cells? That's a.
00:26:04:09 - 00:26:04:43
Salli Gonzalez
That might be a.
00:26:04:43 - 00:26:05:34
Dr. Paul
Concept.
00:26:05:39 - 00:26:13:13
Salli Gonzalez
They might be healthier, you know, in every realm. You know, it may prevent cancer later in life or heart disease. We don't even know.
00:26:13:15 - 00:26:22:08
Dr. Paul
Yeah. Yeah. That's phenomenal. So after birth, what what support are you providing as a midwife?
00:26:22:13 - 00:26:50:57
Salli Gonzalez
So I feel like, our care's in a way superior to, that, I don't want to bash jobs, but, of course, they're very busy, and and we actually give out our cell phone numbers, so, a client can call or text any day, any time, day or night, if they have any sort of questions after the baby's born, because that's when all the big questions come up, because they've never if they're a first time parent, they've never done this before.
00:26:50:57 - 00:27:13:57
Salli Gonzalez
And so we want to be available for that. That's the first thing. And I do check in with them after we leave. We usually they're around four hours after the birth, doing the vitals and cleaning up and doing things like that. And then I check in with them about 12 hours after birth to see how things are going.
00:27:14:01 - 00:27:39:53
Salli Gonzalez
And then again, the next morning. So I'm checking with them often, and they, I am available for them to check in with me. We usually do a home visit again around 24 to 48 hours. So we're going back and doing vitals and checking the baby. And talking about nursing, how all that's going. And, asking any questions.
00:27:39:53 - 00:28:01:34
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah. Answering any questions they have, we check mom's bleeding. We're just we're really on that. As far as, the babies in the mom's health is concerned, immediately after birth. And then, they come back to our office at two weeks and then again at six weeks. And so we're doing all the same vitals again.
00:28:01:34 - 00:28:29:42
Salli Gonzalez
And we're talking about breast feeding and how things are going. I always check in to see if the baby's having, wets and poops. Of course. Because that's how we know babies transferring milk. Well, And we want to get on it right away. If, baby is not having their quota of what? Some poops, we want to be able to either have mom pump or we, we do have donor milk that we can provide.
00:28:29:46 - 00:28:34:06
Dr. Paul
Wow. That's awesome. Part of your vitals is probably weighing the baby.
00:28:34:11 - 00:28:38:58
Salli Gonzalez
Weighing the baby, of course, listening to their heart and lungs.
00:28:39:03 - 00:28:51:51
Dr. Paul
I mean, you're really taking care of those key issues that a pediatrician would take care of. I mean, you've got them well covered. And the fact that you given out your cell phone, that's so reassuring to a couple.
00:28:51:55 - 00:28:52:33
Salli Gonzalez
It is.
00:28:52:38 - 00:29:02:09
Dr. Paul
That is just had a baby. I mean, to know that right there, your your main support person is directly available. I mean, that's just beautiful.
00:29:02:14 - 00:29:04:15
Salli Gonzalez
It's my favorite part.
00:29:04:20 - 00:29:27:14
Dr. Paul
So what? So as a pediatrician, when I was in practice and I was really trying to do everything I could to promote breastfeeding, although unfortunately we did not have a lactation specialist in our office, not till the very end. It was just hard, logistic wise, but I'm curious. I mean, it felt to me like we had way too many failures at breastfeeding.
00:29:27:19 - 00:29:32:31
Dr. Paul
What's what's the rate of success in breastfeeding for your population?
00:29:32:36 - 00:30:08:13
Salli Gonzalez
I mean, I would say 95%. I mean, it's it's pretty rare for, a mom not to be not to breastfeed. Of course, you know, there are physical issues occasionally. Where the mom doesn't have enough, enough breast tissue. But we we work really hard at it. Of course. If we have a mom who has a set of twins who have the twins a couple of weeks ago, and, she wasn't able to, exclusively breastfeed with her first baby.
00:30:08:18 - 00:30:38:48
Salli Gonzalez
But with this set of twins, she's able to breastfeed because we got those babies latched as soon as possible. So, we, had donor milk on hand in case she needed it. And so we were just really prepared for her to be able to get those babies breast milk. She has, you know, low, low amount of breast tissue, but she's, working with that, and she's giving them donor milk at the same time.
00:30:38:48 - 00:30:45:44
Salli Gonzalez
So that seems to be working much better this time. So we're we're all about breastfeeding. We just.
00:30:45:44 - 00:31:07:09
Dr. Paul
Fantastic. Yeah. I had one experience, mom. It was her fifth or sixth baby, and she had never had problems breastfeeding. And she ended up having she thought she was done having babies. So she had a breast reduction and then then got pregnant and she really was struggling. You know, sometimes the reduction will disrupt the ducts. And she was struggling with she did not want to do formula.
00:31:07:09 - 00:31:30:25
Dr. Paul
And at about 4 to 5 months she was nursing almost constantly like it was like, Mama Bear, I'm going to be successful. And she was with whatever little connection there was left, she was to ramp up the production. I was like, wow, that was a real testament to it. I have one, perhaps odd question for you, and you may or may or may not be able to answer this one.
00:31:30:30 - 00:31:46:32
Dr. Paul
Feel free to say I don't know since we've gone through Covid and then we went through the vaccines for so many people, ended up taking those shots, which I don't like to call them vaccines. Honestly, there have been reports of spike protein coming through breast milk. When you get your donor milk, are you able to screen for that or.
00:31:46:33 - 00:31:47:09
Salli Gonzalez
Yes we do.
00:31:47:21 - 00:31:48:17
Dr. Paul
Do you screen for that?
00:31:48:17 - 00:32:00:21
Salli Gonzalez
Yeah we do, we don't test the blood. You know, we don't test the milk or anything like that. But we know our clients very well. I mean, we have those conversations. Well.
00:32:00:26 - 00:32:03:03
Dr. Paul
Our donors who weren't exactly right.
00:32:03:08 - 00:32:28:57
Salli Gonzalez
Right. And most of our donor milk, I would say all of it is from our own clients. So we know them very well. We're doing their blood tests at the beginning of their pregnancies, and we're talking about vaccines a lot. So we're we know their stand on, any vaccine and, the Covid vaccine especially. So none of them are taking that.
00:32:29:01 - 00:32:48:00
Dr. Paul
Fantastic. Really great. Wow. Well, Sally, I'm going to give you the final words. We're running out of time. This has been so informative. You are in Georgetown, Texas, correct? That's right. So, if people were near enough to you to have you support them, how would they find you?
00:32:48:04 - 00:33:07:52
Salli Gonzalez
I don't have a website currently, but, they can call my cell phone number. I'm starting another business, so I'm kind of getting that, set up and running. But they can email me, Sally at new Hope midwifery dot.
00:33:07:52 - 00:33:22:35
Dr. Paul
Com if we've got, prospective parents who are wrestling with the. Should I have this baby at home and a birthing center in the hospital? Talk to them just for the few minutes. A couple minutes?
00:33:22:40 - 00:33:50:34
Salli Gonzalez
Well, childbirth is a very, very special, event. And so I encourage everyone to look into their options. You can look into home births. There's lots of home birth midwives. And in all areas of the country, I definitely encourage you to research as much, as much as possible. Einem is guide to childbirth is a great place to start.
00:33:50:39 - 00:34:18:32
Salli Gonzalez
I am a asking, was a midwife from the 70s, and, she kind of brought home birth back. In, you know, in, in our culture. So she's she's a good resource. But I would definitely explore all your options. There's lots of good reasons to have your baby. Naturally. Either in a nursing or at home.
00:34:18:37 - 00:34:53:04
Dr. Paul
I would second that because having been a pediatrician who attended hospital births, or at least came after the birth, for almost all our babies, yeah, the experience has gotten more and more medicalized, more and more protocol driven. And you basically seem to lose control of what's happening once you sign into the hospital. I mean, things like the hepatitis B shot and the vitamin K shot are automatic when you sign in and give permission to be hospitalized for your baby.
00:34:53:12 - 00:35:13:15
Dr. Paul
Actually, somewhere in there are words that give them permission to do those things so they can happen instantly upon the birth of your child, even if you actually didn't want it to happen. But you weren't aware that by signing in you gave you gave permission. So I love your recommendation. Do your research. Check out your resources. And Sally.
00:35:13:15 - 00:35:20:13
Dr. Paul
Oh my gosh, I wish I could have been near you when we were having babies. Of course, we're about the same age. So that was.
00:35:20:18 - 00:35:25:04
Salli Gonzalez
That's true. Yeah. So good to meet you. Thank you so much for having me on.
00:35:25:09 - 00:35:45:12
Dr. Paul
Thank you for being on the show. Well, there you have it, folks. Wow. There are other ways to go through the birthing process. I hope that was informative and enjoyable to you. I have another show at Doctors and science.com. It's called With the Wind and you can reach me personally at Kids First Forever. Thank you. I look forward to seeing you next week.
00:35:50:31 - 00:36:16:25
Dr. Paul
I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world that's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website Doctors in Science Rt.com. Sign up, donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching.
00:36:16:31 - 00:36:23:47
Dr. Paul
I'm Dr. Paul.
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