PDF:TEXT:Dr. Paul 0:06
Welcome to with the winds science revealed. My guest today is Dr. Brian hook er he is the co author of a very important new book Vax unvaccinated, we cover the importance of looking at those vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated to get to the true results of vaccination, what it's actually doing to our children, Didi wraps this one up with an incredible get to know you, personal Mom, Dad conversation, enjoy the show. Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart. I want to talk about division. This has been really heavy on my heart, how we are all so divided. What is going to bring us together? What's going to bring families together? You know, with the division we're experiencing, we need to find the things we can all agree on. So we can get united again. We have this stress of whether you're vaccinate or not. Whether you're red, blue, or some other party. You know, some people believe it's okay to even tell you what you should do with your own body as far as getting a shot or not that somehow it's for the greater good. But if that's the case, then I'm not free to make my own decision. So what can we all agree upon? You know, it rings true to me. We can all agree on love. We can agree to disagree on certain things. But we're all united in that one thing that we all want. We all need. And that's love. So let's agree to disagree. But link arms and love one another. Welcome Dr. Brian Hooker. It's so great to have you back on the show. Dr. Paul, Dr. Brian Hooker 2:03 it's so good to be here is always good to see you and DD as well. And I've been excited for this interview for a long time. Just as as soon as you reached out to me, I thought this is going to be fun. Dr. Paul 2:15 Yeah, you're one of my favorite people. One of my heroes. You just wrote a book, right there, Vax, on Vax, we're gonna get to that. But just not everybody may know who you are and how you got to be someone who could write that book. That's such an important but you have a PhD or the chief scientific officer at Children's Health defense. I knew you back when you were a professor of biology at Simpson University. You did that for a very long time in Redding, California. And of course, now you've co authored this very important book Vax, on Vax, let the science speak. You've got a doctorates you were Biochemical Engineering, multiple awards over the years 70 Plus Science Engineering papers. You've been active in vaccine science and safety since 2001. You have a son, I think, is he 25. Now, Dr. Brian Hooker 3:04 he is 25. Now does it it just goes by so fast. Dr. Paul 3:09 Wow. And I imagine that sort of launched you into this world of autism. Is that true? Yes, absolutely. Dr. Brian Hooker 3:17 I had never prior to my son's vaccine injury, and he was injured when he was 15 months old, when he received three vaccines while having an active ear infection. And prior to that, I was very pro vaccine. If you look at my wife and I, she was the one asking questions. She was the one really perusing the Vaccine Information Sheet, which, as I was very inadequate, but and I was the one that was like, Oh, these are great. This is the best thing since sliced bread. He'll never have the chicken pox. That's so convenient. And so I very quickly when I saw what happened before my eyes, didn't about face and that really launched my investigation into why aren't there studies? Why aren't there vaccine safety studies? Why is this the most under studied? And the studies that are produced by federal officials are very, very dubious in nature. Dr. Paul 4:16 Yeah. And I how quickly so? What if people might try to accuse you actually of being one of those anti vaxxers but as you stated, you were all in on vaccines? That is correct. And then something happened maybe just briefly, what did happen to your son? Dr. Brian Hooker 4:36 What's interesting when my son was born, most of the vaccines on the schedule contain thimerosal the mercury containing preservative I had about depending on the Hepatitis B dose that was 12 and a half micrograms of mercury. The rest were 25 micrograms of mercury. And so he was actually developing slowly and from the very beginning It was odd, he was slow normal, we would always sort of get him up to normal on his Denver developmental protocol when we would go to the well baby visit. And I remember thinking, this is not normal. Something is really off here. But it wasn't Intel, his 15 month appointment. He was fussy. He had an ear infection because we saw an Ear, Nose Throat doctor that same day and he was diagnosed with an ear infection. And then being the dutiful parents that we were we brought him in the same day for his 15 month well baby visits so he could get his vaccines. And we asked the nurse practitioner, is it okay to vaccinate a sick child? And she said, Oh, yeah, we do it all the time. He's not really that sick. And let's just an errand just, you know, inflammation happening already in in his overtax system. And so that was really cataclysmic for my son. He was weird. He ran a low grade for about 18 days, and then his fever spiked to 103. And then as soon as that spike happened, and that there was so much neuro inflammation, I believe that was going on at that time. Then he lost his language up to that point, he had about 10 words. He lost that for a while he stopped walking, he would not walk unassisted and became wobbly and lost all eye contact was very much change very quickly. And then he received his diagnosis of autism at his next well baby checkup at 18 months. Wow. Dr. Paul 6:35 So that happened pretty fast starting around the T and you really noticed something correct must have gotten the MMR because that one will give you that long lasting inflammation. Probably that with some other things. Is that what he got? Dr. Brian Hooker 6:47 He actually got the MMR at 12 months. Were a little early on that he that day, and I'll tell you what really concerned me was it was the oral polio. Interestingly, he received the oral that was back when they were giving the oral polio virus vaccine. And then the got the head which contains the Marisol and the detail, which contains Marisol. So those three vaccines and aluminum Absolutely, and that was really, I've thought of MMR. We didn't really notice a change after MMR. But it was so difficult because we were literally my wife and I did this he was an only child. So we weren't cramming for his Denver development. I remember teaching him how to crawl. And I thought don't babies just do this normally. Dr. Paul 7:35 That's fun cramming for your Denver developmental Dr. Brian Hooker 7:37 we were Yeah, yeah, we would cram for the dimmed or development and devise ways so something was really troubling. Even before 15 months. Dr. Paul 7:45 Yeah, yeah. Wow. And then of course, wow, when I really got to know a view was around 20 1314. With you got involved with CDC whistleblower William Thompson. Yes. So in our literature, as a pediatrician, there was that famous article in gringos 2004 I in our journal called pediatrics, where they claimed that there was no link between MMR and autism science is settled. We never need to look at this, again, vaccines don't cause autism as if you can settle science. But it took a while what just briefly tell us about William Thompson, because I think that's so important for people to understand that the science was there was a lot of fraud involves. Absolutely Dr. Brian Hooker 8:35 there, there was a tremendous amount of fraud in the shell game. Really, if you look at the original paper, there are results that show there's a statistically significant relationship between the timing of the MMR vaccine and, and and then more specifically in male children. And the author's explained it away. They said, Oh, it wasn't autism. It was vaccines not causing autism was autism causing vaccines because these children were diagnosed early and they had to get their vaccines early to get in special ed programs made absolutely no sense because if that were the case, you would see that in boys and girls both. And when you looked at girls, only that relationship disappeared. It was specific to boys. Then Thompson comes along and he contacts me in 2013 and starts really confessing regarding the fraud around autism and vaccines in the CDC. And we were talking about the Marisol and the MMR vaccine, and he encouraged me he helped me go through the front door of the CDC get the public use datasets for that study. And he encouraged me is that he got he actually got me data for three different studies. And he said, do this one first. And I thought that's interesting, where what are you guiding me to do? And I did the research and I found that in African American males, the rate of odds his own was 3.86 Compared to 3.86 times higher for those that got the MMR on time, versus those that just delayed the MMR until after three years of age. And so it was it had been buried there were actually false results in the original paper, this sort of indemnify the vaccine, especially from race effects, and then different race categories. And so he guided me through that process. And ultimately on we shared many phone calls hundreds of emails, he shared about 10,000 pages of documents to really document the fraud that was going on in the CDC that involved primarily Coleen Boyle, who was the director for the National Center for birth defects and developmental disabilities. And then Frank De Stefano, who was the director of the immunization Safety Office, they were really thick in this fraud. And we went public with a statement in August of 2014. And then the whistleblower story came out, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, produced a series of videos that were released the same week, I published a paper based on the results, that paper than because of the fear around the CDC whistleblower story, that paper was ultimately retracted by the journal in October of 2014. And you sir, you've gone through a retraction. It's a weird sort of gut punch experience, Dr. Paul 11:37 is you do all this good work, you get something through peer review published and then for bogus reasons, I'm sure it gets just bone, take it down, you discredit the author, discredit the journal discredit the paper, and therefore, those findings are no longer important. We, you know, there's the findings are still the findings. And there's valid as they were the first day but people Dr. Brian Hooker 12:01 won't pay attention to them. No, they won't. They won't pay attention to the results. And it was you can still access I think the first page of the paper online, but it has this big scarlet letter retracted watermark on it. And and the journal never really gave me a good reason for the retraction. They, there were there was a few hand-waving comments that I should have used multiple data sets to come to my conclusions. Even though the CDC always uses a single data set for their papers, I had to deal with multiple data sets. And so it was so dubious, that when I've never really found out who was behind that particular retraction, but it happened very swiftly. And then the I republished the results and also talked about a phenomenon called isolated autism, which we know more as regressive autism, where the CDC also found a relationship and hid it. And that paper was published in 2018. Dr. Paul 13:00 Yeah. So what happened to Boyle and de Stefano and William Thompson, they're are they still at the CDC? Dr. Brian Hooker 13:07 Dr. Thompson is still at the CDC. I do not have direct contact with Dr. Thompson. He is really underground. I think I every now and they hear rumblings that he's friendly to our movement. I saw an Instagram post that that he actually commented on a book children's book about vaccines by Shannon kroner, and I was I was heartened by that. But he's still tucked within the CDC, in a place where I feel unfortunately, the wrong voices speak to him every day. And he is getting the voice of denial and deception. Dr. Frank De Stefano recently retired. Dr. DE Stefano has a child with autism, he has reached out to our community in the past to find out how to keylight mercury out of assists. So it's very odd sort of this contradiction of terms what he does publicly and privately. And then Dr. Boyle retired a few years Dr. Paul 14:06 ago. Yeah, fascinating. And those 10,000 pages I remember reading, they were given the Congress, but nothing happened with it. Dr. Brian Hooker 14:15 Nothing really happened with our big advocate in Congress. It has been for a long time Representative Bill Posey, and he even asked for Dr. Thompson to be subpoenaed. He said it on the House floor in 2015. In crickets, nothing ever happened. This needed a federal investigation. And what happened was that I filed a formal complaint. It went to the Office of Research Integrity of the Department of Health and Human Services. And then they said, Oh, we're going to have the CDC do a self review on this. So you can imagine what happened. Every time I reveal Myself I really come out smelling like a rose, Dr. Paul 14:55 either. Yeah. Okay, so it's fear that our government agencies, the CDC, etc, they're not going to do for us what we need to do. So you embarked now on this incredible journey to come up with a book vaccine on vaccines, because that's what we've needed, right? We've needed. And I know you've written already at least two really stellar papers with vaccine vaccine data. Walk us through this, coming to the creation of this amazing, amazing book. Dr. Brian Hooker 15:27 It really started with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And he had a meeting in 2017. With He was accompanied by del Bigtree, Aaron Siri and Lynn, redwood, all personal heroes of mine amazing, amazing cohort of people who met with Dr. Anthony Fauci and Dr. Francis Collins, basically to say, Where are the studies? We need studies where you compare vaccinated children to unvaccinated children? Why is this never been done? Even the Institute of Medicine in 2013 said this needed to be done. And of course, Dr. Fauci with much bravado said yes, these studies exist. He wheeled in this sort of file card with folders of papers, he rifled through these papers, and he could not find one that was a vaccinated versus unvaccinated study or that had a true placebo control. And so he said, exasperated, I'll get you these I know they exist, I'll email them to you. And of course, they never heard from him again after the meeting. And Bobby Kennedy was undeterred. He said to me, Kant reached out to me in 2019, and he said, We need to find these studies. I know they're out there, and they're hiding in plain sight. And in 2019, he and I both started searching PubMed. And whenever we found a study with an unvaccinated cohort, then I would take it converted into graphics and to summaries that were easily digestible, easily understandable, easily easy take home messages, and then he would post them on his Instagram account. And so I thought, oh, we'll find a few studies in this will be fine. We can post a few things on Instagram 60 studies later in two years later, and we had continued to do this, he continued to post on Instagram. And his Instagram site, Dan was taken down as long with his C was D platform from Instagram and Facebook in 2021. And we looked at each other and said, This is a book we need to get this out in some way, shape, or form. So we continued our research through the COVID-19 era, and found 30 more studies on COVID-19 plus 10 additional studies on Vax that we had not seen before. And so now we have this compilation vaccine Vax let the science speak. And it's really a compendium almost a guidebook to guide you through these 100 studies that we've found where there were vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated individuals. Dr. Paul 18:00 So folks, there is now a book that is guiding you through data that can be sometimes difficult to pull out of the studies because they weren't. A lot of these weren't really set up as vaccine Vax. But you were able to find datasets within studies, right? Dr. Brian Hooker 18:16 Absolutely. Some of them were some of them were really very straightforward. vaccin vac studies. The leader in this is Dr. Anthony Matson, and he produced a study in 2007 vet study it six about 660 homeschool students that were surveyed through a homeschool organization. And that was really the first study that came out in the Journal of translational science. And then I followed you followed with with Dr. James Lyons, Wyler, I followed with Neil Miller. But then the rest of the studies are almost hiding in plain sight. They weren't specifically done with the intent to compare the outcomes of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children or adults. But we went through these studies with a fine tooth comb. And when we would see that sort of opening where, yes, this cohort is unvaccinated, and there was a comparison done, then we decided to include it in the book. Dr. Paul 19:13 Yeah. Before we're done here, I'll have you summarize some of the biggest findings that you have uncovered. Talk a little bit about the vaccine safety data link. What it is and if you've accessed that data, tell us more about that. Dr. Brian Hooker 19:27 The Vaccine Safety Data Link is CDC its own private database, based on the medical records from 10 HMOs. Across the United States, it includes the Kaisers it includes Group Health Northwest it includes Harvard Pilgrim Medical Group in these large HMOs and they aggregate these records of about 10 million individuals including over 2 million children, and it's all their medical records. It's not just related to vaccine It's all of their medical records. And so I, I went into, I was blessed to work with Dr. Mark and David Guyer, who are really the only independent researchers who have ever been granted access into that database. I went in in 2012, and 13 as their programmer. And so we were able to actually go into the belly of the beast, they put us in a room at a CDC satellite office in Rockville, Maryland. With no air conditioning, we were not allowed to bring cell phones. The computers were standalone isolated, no internet access, and all of our output. While we were there was censored. All of it was they had to read Mark any output that we came up with. And from my estimation, there are at least 10,000 individuals in that database who are completely unvaccinated. They exist. Wow. So it was a really strong take home message that CDC could do this study any day. Now. It's not for lack of information, it's just lack of willingness to do it. They really do not want to know what will happen with these unvaccinated individuals. The gyres were kicked out of the VSD. Soon thereafter, I think in 2015, or 16. So I was summarily kicked out of the DSD. And now it's the standalone CDC database, by the way that cost 30 million taxpayer dollars to maintain every year, and we don't have access to it. Now we don't have access to it, we need access to it right away. I've tried to FOIA it using the Freedom of Information Act. They always say patient privacy concerns, and then there's this way that you can apply for access. But really, it's a 20 year road to nowhere. It really is it's a ruse, you cannot get access to the vaccine safety data link, period, end of sentence, but it's this large repository of information. And if we had access, oh, what we can find out right about vaccinated versus unvaccinated individuals. Dr. Paul 22:05 Yeah, you and I have both done these studies. And yes, well, they've got a larger group there than what we've had access to. So my hunch is they know, but they cannot let that information out because it will destroy the vaccine program. And they care more about the program than the health of children. Dr. Brian Hooker 22:24 They do care more about the program. They're incentivized to care about the program. As federal government employees, if they get a patent on a vaccine, then they can make upwards to $150,000 a year of royalties on top of their CDC salary. And so there's a very strong conflict of interest, including then a revolving door between the CDC and industry. And that's true for really lots of federal officials, especially in the HH H complex. We know, of course, historically. Dr. Julie Gerberding, who was the CDC director, I think through 2008, then became the vice president of Merck, and the President of the vaccine division of Merck in 2009, with a $4 million signing bonus, and so there's lots of money to be had if you tell the line regarding vaccines. Dr. Paul 23:15 Wow. Fascinating. So what control groups are done for these vaccine safety studies? Dr. Brian Hooker 23:24 That the CDC completes? Yeah, yep. The CDC will do things like for example, rather than doing is say so to Marisol, the main Mercury containing preservatives, rather than looking at individuals that have had the Marisol in their vaccines versus those that have had none. The CDC will look at those that have had a high level of the Marisol in their vaccines versus those that have had a little less. Okay, so their control group is just maybe this delta have a few micrograms of mercury difference between the two means, and they say we don't want to include those who got zero thimerosal because they're on vaccinated and unvaccinated people are weird, and they have different health care seeking behavior. And so they have all these weasel words why they can't do that. So they've never done and predictably, when you do that type of study, you don't find a relationship. It's overmatched. The controls and the n the vaccinated group or the exposure group are so closely matched that there's no way you would find a difference. Dr. Paul 24:31 Yeah, it's the old tobacco science trick. You smoke two packs a day I'll smoke one pack a day. We'll see who dies in a week. Oh, we both lives tobacco is safe. Dr. Brian Hooker 24:41 Absolutely. Same thing. Same Dr. Paul 24:43 100 studies for your book share with us what are some of the key findings? What are the things that just stood out? Dr. Brian Hooker 24:51 The key findings for the vaccination schedule are encompassed in chapter two of the book. And of course that feeds Here's Dr. Marston study my studies with Neil Miller your study with James Lyons Weiler. And then Jack's follow up study in the International Journal of vaccine theory, practice and research. I wanted to highlight that as well. And then other studies that some are published, some were actually done independently and not published in peer reviewed journals, like by the control group or the Dutch association of conscientious vaccinations. And then another series of studies in that chapter. Were accidentally they looked at fully unvaccinated versus fully vaccinated children. And what you find is that the rate of chronic illnesses, especially in vaccinated children, are, the rate is much, much higher. When you look at things like autism five times higher in fully vaccinated children versus unvaccinated children. In your study, you looked at office visit the number of office visits for vaccinated children for specific disorders, which I think is a genius way to do it, because you look not only at the frequency, but the severity of the disorder, the it's a wonderful paper. And but you see, again, more and more asthma, more and more AD D ADHD, speech and language problems, developmental delays in general, gastrointestinal issues, allergies, nasal allergies in the Mawson study were 30 times higher in the vaccinated group, compared to the unvaccinated group. And it's not only that, but infectious diseases, respiratory infections and ear infections, typically were four times higher incidence in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated control. So vaccines aren't even protecting against infectious disease. It's a one two punch. Dr. Paul 26:53 And you found that with several studies, I'm sorry. You find that in several studies, Dr. Brian Hooker 26:58 that was affirmed by several studies that was not just a one off that was several studies, and then asthma and allergies. There was a study done in 2005 by Rachel and Rica's and her co authors, and that was an accidental the unvaccinated work called vaccine resistant paper, which I really, I thought that's an interesting term. But she found that asthma was 11 times higher in the vaccinated group, and allergies were 10 times higher in the vaccinated group. And these are being affirmed over and over again, by different studies by independent researchers and independent authors. It's not just the same club of individuals that are doing these Dr. Paul 27:42 studies. Yeah. I was fascinated to read in your book about the studies group of them actually, that came out of Africa when they were looking at the DPT. Yes, they're a tetanus Pertussis vaccine. Now that's the old whole cell DPT That was horrible. And I was practicing when that was still available. Before the US introduced the a cellular. And yeah, kids universally had high fevers. It was a rough vaccine. But you found some interesting things, didn't you about mortality and the share a little bit of Oh, you found from those and that's been known since about what 2004 Or five, something like that? Dr. Brian Hooker 28:19 Correct. There were there was a group of researchers in Denmark who focused on Sub Saharan Africa. And in that the primary investigator was a Dr. Peter ab. And he looked at mortality of infants all cause mortality of infants receiving the PT the wholesale Pertussis vaccine, which is still distributed in many nations in the developing world. It's not a acellular pertussis everywhere, the DPT is still being manufactured and distributed. But he found that girls had a five times higher mortality rate if they received the DPT versus those that did not receive the DPT vaccine. They also saw other effects in terms of the sequencing of vaccines and the DPT was seemed to be the really common factor the equation, if they gave the DPT following a live virus vaccine, then the mortality rates in some instances went up by 10 times. Okay. And so it was difficult the temporal sequence of they would give like a live measles vaccine, just the MV and then they would follow it up with a DPT vaccine and and it just was a sort of a mortality producer on steroids. Dr. Paul 29:40 So they've got this data that their vaccine program is killing children. Yes, at much higher rates than if they had done nothing. What was their response to this data as far as the health programs that they were rolling out in Africa? Dr. Brian Hooker 29:57 It's is too interesting. The US Assad because some of this was commissioned by the World Health Organization. Some of this study was, I believe Dr. AB started independently. And then by 2011 12, then there was a committee or a subcommittee of the World Health Organization that will looked into this phenomenon. But the studies have been produced in in released crickets. There has been no response. They've been ghosted by the World Health Organization. Of course, we've seen that with different studies in the United States with the CDC, where all of a sudden, the famous Harvard Pilgrim study by Ross Lazarus, all of a sudden CDC didn't return their phone calls or their emails. Dr. Paul 30:41 Yeah, that was the one where they figured out that only less than 1% folks of the adverse events were actually reported in bears. And that's what we're left with is looking at various because there's nothing else to look at vaccine safety. And as little as 1% is getting reported. And I know that's true. So I was a pediatrician who was fairly aware of the fact that vaccines carried risks. I didn't report to theirs, because I have made the connection, all these things. We're talking about the allergies, the asthma, the add the other infections, I wouldn't have ever reported any of that as vaccine related because I hadn't made the connection. Not exactly not to speak of how incredibly difficult it actually is to walk through a report. But I was horrified to read in your book, correct me if I'm wrong, I think this is where I read it. That in Africa, where they have this data that that wholesale DPT is killing kids. That's the metric being used for how well a country is vaccinating? Dr. Brian Hooker 31:50 That is correct. Unfortunately, yes. That is what they're looking at. And there's it's a trumped up risk benefit ratio, because there's there is indeterminate information on what would happen if they suspended the vaccination program. And so of course, there's always these horror stories of diphtheria, tetanus, or whooping cough, ravaging the population. Even though tetanus is preventable, it is it is treatable by antibiotics, pertussis, there are treatments for these particular diseases, but they always factor in the worst case scenario because these do such a good job at protecting against infectious disease, and you gotta crack some eggs to make an omelet. Yeah. And there they go. And so this is the metric that they use that, yes, vaccine uptake is good in these sub Saharan African countries. And it's really unfortunate. Dr. Paul 32:50 So unfortunate, it almost reminds me of the works doing the same thing in the United States about hepatitis B for newborns, hospitals get graded on quality measures, and they all want to be Baby Friendly hospitals. And I think it's crept in, I'm not 100% Sure. But there is so much pressure in the hospitals to give the hat beater on day one, that I know it's got to be a quality measure, because otherwise there wouldn't be that pressure. And so you're measured as a good hospital. If you inject 250 micrograms of aluminum to a newborn who that's way over there safe dose. It's insane. Dr. Brian Hooker 33:28 Absolutely insane. And you look at that in and the metrics for aluminum are really highly unknown. I've seen a limit for premature infants of five micrograms, five micrograms. Oh, and I know that it is the exception, not the rule that premies skip the Hepatitis B shot, there are certain weight limits, and there's a protocol, I believe that's associated with that, and specifically in hospitals, but premature infants that are not extremely low birth weight, are still getting the Hepatitis B shot. And so it's very, it's stunning. The level of financial incentivization around vaccinations has always been astounding to me. And it's nothing It seems to have nothing to do with public health. Dr. Paul 34:19 Yeah. With that statement, financial incentivization let's pivot to COVID. I imagine you address I know you're dressed because I read your book. What did you find out with regards to the COVID shots? The COVID shots Dr. Brian Hooker 34:34 are ground zero for vaccine adverse events. They really are. One of the things that we did very, very quickly was if there's comparison of the data and various although it is woefully inadequate in terms of capture, you can still do relative studies, we looked at the number of various reports for the COVID-19 vaccine versus the entire 32 year History of bears. And what we found was that currently, there are just under a million adverse events reports for COVID 19 vaccines in various in the United States. That's just us only. And then you look at the rest of the history of EHRs. There's only 800,000 reports. When you look at deaths, there are 18,000 deaths associated with a COVID-19 shot on bears. There are 5000 deaths for the rest of the vaccination schedule, over the 32 year history of EHRs. And I could go on and on. So folks, 30 years of all vaccines, side effects added together got 1820 Different many more brands, but huge amounts of vaccination, over 30 years and one illness one shot basically Maderna and Maderna, Pfizer and a little bit of j&j in the US, it does have now killed more people with those vaccines than all other vaccines combined. War hospitalizations more. And we know from that Lazarus pilgrims, hybrid pills pilgrims group that, at least for the general side effects, they're probably picking up less than 1%. So if you talk about a million side effects, that's 100 million. It's this is devastating. It really is absolutely crazy. And finding vaccin vac studies at first looking at COVID. I thought this is very new, I will probably find very few studies, we found over 30 studies to on COVID-19 alone, and many of them, if not most were for cardiac adverse events, things like myocarditis, especially in adolescent and young adult males, pericarditis, Bell's Palsy, especially in females aged 65 or over was another one that really jumped out at five times increased incidence in shingles after receiving the COVID-19 shot. And so we saw this whole this Yeah, there were there was this body of literature that unfolded very quickly, showing significant adverse events, and a significant rate of adverse events. Let's not in the book, but I've heard Peter McCullough say that the rate of cardiac injury around for myocarditis, he estimates his over 2% of all the individuals that got the vaccine, that is huge. Yeah, it was such a significant portion of the population. Yeah, Dr. Paul 37:38 it's absolutely crazy. So I'm just gonna ask you to speculate on something because this is your wheelhouse of research. In the past, there was a pattern, at least it felt like there was and I'm thinking back to rotavirus, and we had the Rotarix that had a number of interceptions and deaths, and they pulled it from the market. Of course, they ended up putting two others on the market that still had similar side effects. But that's another story. But at least they made an attempt to say, Whoa, we've got something that right here, we need to pause. Why are they not pausing with this COVID program, the side effects are through the roof. That is such? That's such a good question. And it's so ingrained from the start of the pandemic, when the virus hit the shores of the United States. The first thing that we heard about was a vaccine that didn't exist. Vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate, and so we were all waiting for this vaccine Messiah to pop up on the horizon, which it did, and December 10 2020, and people started to get the vaccine and droves immediately. In Dr. Brian Hooker 38:53 Pfizer's own database. They recorded 1223 deaths associated with their vaccine alone, which was one of three that was being distributed in the United States. And but crickets, absolute crickets, you remember, and you've cited other evidence of pulling vaccines. They pulled the swine flu vaccine in 1976 for 25 deaths. Okay. And but yet Pfizer themselves were attributing over 1000 deaths to the vaccine, but it seems the powers that be and the operation warp speed which connotes to the images of Star Trek and Captain Kirk and Picard and all those it was this patriotic duty in order to get vaccinated so you could protect your country and you could protect grandma and you could protect democracy somehow by having this experimental gene therapy, but it generated so much revenue. Nia and it was on the rails from the absolute very beginning in and I don't want to ascribe nothing areas forces if there aren't nefarious forces, but why would you take an untested technology? This mRNA vaccine technology never used an approved vaccine before and incorporated around the most toxic part of the virus to spike protein to spike protein is causes coagulopathy. And it's a known fact and knowns. It induces platelets to activate. And so you will get micro clotting if you're exposed to the spike protein. So Let's inject it into everybody. Our bodies make more of it. Exactly, exactly. So we can be called spike protein production factories. In Dr. Pol, the technology that they use in these vaccines are the same is very similar to the technology I've used in the past to transfect cells to actually genetically modified cells. But they told us no, they will not jump into our genomes, that genetic code will not jump into our genomes. Not so it's just it is so ludicrous. Looking at it and looking at the assertions that they made. It's magical thinking but you think all the sudden Tinkerbell is going to come on horizon and just pour pixie dust over Fauci and Birx and colons and all those minions. Fauci was the puppet keeper, the other rest of her minions, but, but it was such magical thinking, and but again, $56 billion to Pfizer, $34 billion to Maderna, lots and lots of money associated with this whole thing, people voting themselves rich over the pandemic, including Anthony Fauci, whose net worth doubled more than doubled over the period of the pandemic. Dr. Paul 41:44 Yeah, so obscene amounts of money, maybe it's just that in itself is enough to corrupt at such a level that you're willing to tinker with possibly destroying humanity, and you start fixing our genetic ability to make spike protein that can kill you, it seems. So we have a task at hand, you and our community and all of us who care about humanity, we've got to get people to wake up. Because the government's likely going to come to our rescue. We've even I've figured that out. As have a lot of other people, more and more people, maybe that's the blessing of COVID is going to wake some people up. So we need to get your book in the hands of as many people as possible. What other strategies do you have for helping wake people up? Because I still feel like too many like, way over 50% of the country is still sleepwalking. What are your thoughts on that? How do we reach people? Dr. Brian Hooker 42:44 I really think that the federal government, Mr. This pharmaceutical Industrial Complex has OVERPLAYED THEIR hand with the COVID 19 vaccine. And so I'm like opening a question why I think it starts at the grassroots level at the personal level. My wife has a saying that if she spends three minutes within three feet of a stranger, she's going to talk to them about vaccines. I'm not so sure the three minute three foot three minute rule. And she makes incredible friends. In the line in the grocery store, they're like, she's Oh, I was talking to this lady about vaccines. Now we're going to have coffee and everything. I'm like, How do you do that? Oh, my goodness. It's just amazing. My wife is very charming. But I think that getting it out at the grassroots level, and then making sure that during this opportunity, where people are starting to question now they're pushing mask mandates again, and they're saying, Oh, we're going to have a vaccine, and this time it will actually work. I think that this is the time to capture the opportunity. And I am fortunate to work with children's health defense, we're doing a lot in terms of working with key members of Congress. There's so much going on in litigation, but really, it's just being able to spread the word. Unfortunately, we're blacked out on the mainstream media and you know that very well. In the mainstream media. I get a paper retracted. That's the story. You are in trouble with a medical board of Portland, Oregon. That's the story not not the fact that you were just with the paper you were actually addressing what they had asked for in the first place. That's not the story. But still, you're like the Energizer Bunny. You keep on pushing and you keep on getting the word out. But Dr. Paul 44:32 I'm amazed at your tenacity and sticking to it. So thank you for that. Dr. Brian Hooker 44:38 Thank you but I think this is an opportunity we have to capitalize on I really do and I think it's every person involvement. It's everybody that is is going to their part and really sharing somebody my my my hope is that this gets in the hands of people who are making vaccine decisions Bobby and I I've worked very hard in order to make this an accessible book. And so I really want people to read this book, who are in the crux of making vaccination decisions. Dr. Paul 45:12 Yeah, I would say this book right here vaccine vaccine. It's good for you, the viewers, even if you're a parent, because the graphs are easy to understand. So I like the color graphs throughout the book that must cost a fortune to do but I'm glad you did. Because they just pop out at you. And you can see it's a, it's so visually easy to understand. And so you don't have to be a scientist. But then like you said, this is well referenced. And folks, you can get a copy of this and give it to your congress person, give it to the school board, if they're trying to bring in mandates of any kind. We've got to get this information out. So I'm really grateful for that. Yeah, thank you. And I look forward to sharing the stage with you in Savannah, Georgia in November. Absolutely, that Dr. Brian Hooker 45:57 is going to be a hoot. That's going to be like a three day party. Dr. Paul 46:04 A lot of important people coming together to speak the truth about what's going on and what we know. I am going to Oh, before I leave, I'm gonna come and get personal with you maybe play devil's advocate put you on the hot seat. Before we do that, though, I like to get Have you have a final word to our viewers. Dr. Brian Hooker 46:24 Wow, a final word. I want this book. And I believe I speak for Mr. Kennedy, to to inspire conversations with your medical practitioners, about vaccines, I really want to I'm a PhD and an MD, I don't get medical advice. But I really, I see. Taking this book into your practitioner, having your practitioner read that book. And if your practitioner blows you off, then maybe it's time to vote with your feet. But I hope that this really inspires frank conversations for those people who are providing medical care, and that we can impact them in a way that will be meaningful. I think that I think it's every person involvement. I think that the groundswell of the health freedom movement, we can really affect DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 47:23 change. A man, amen. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Brian hugger for joining me for being willing to have me put you through some fire here. So a lot of people who when we talk about autism, I constantly hear and the pushback when someone signs up for you can't blame vaccines for that. Autism is a neuro diversity issue. That's what this is. This is a brain thing, if you will, what do you say to those people? Frankly, Dr. Brian Hooker 47:57 when my son was first diagnosed with autism, we did a full laboratory grown up of him. And it was like an atom bomb was dropped in his system. It was a multiple system failure that happened. Autism has a gut axis associated with that. Even the most leading mainstream researchers, Simon Baron Cohen, who has been the hallmark of autism research, never talks about vaccines completely dismisses the vaccine hypothesis, but yet he will talk about the gut brain access ends when you look at this as neurodiversity. Is it neuro diverse for my son to suffer symptoms of that are like Crohn's disease? Is that a neurodiversity issue? Because when you look at that, in when you look at the presentation of autism, and of course, dd, you know, that if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism, they present much differently ends, but there is a phenotype and there's a very strong, prevalent phenotype. Where do you have the gut brain axis where you have neurological pain, where you have gut dysbiosis, where you have Frank gut pain as well and one swelling, then distension. And there's so many different things, mitochondrial dysfunction, which is also then been shown to ramify in over 40% of children with autism diagnoses. So you can't dismiss the medical aspect of this. You're really you're cutting off all systems at the knees just to say blanket Oh, they're neurodiverse DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 49:33 Do you think that's just because some people believe that and I've heard this and it just kills me when I hear one parent, say to a parent, the vaccine injured child. Oh, you're just blaming it on that or an autistic child? Excuse me? Oh, you're just blaming it on the vaccine because you just don't know how to raise a child so you blame me on the vaccines but you don't have to feel guilty about what you're doing at home. That Now that I can't wait for that to be set in front of me again, I'm gonna handle that situation. But what do you say to that? What if were you just blaming it on a vaccine or Dr. Hooker because you didn't want to face the facts? No, I Dr. Brian Hooker 50:14 actually tested the science. We've been told trust the science, it's actually wrong. It's test to science. And so I tested the science on my son and looked mechanistically looked biochemically looked genetically at was he predisposed for vaccine injury. I'm sorry. We did the hard work. We sweated in this instance, in order to give vaccines every benefit of the doubt, and I'm sorry, they did come up wanting and if you've done that assessment, and you've come you support Bruno Bettelheim, that it's really just bad parenting or whatever nuts to you. But we have, and I think I speak for so many people that have autistic children that have attributed it to vaccine injury. We've done the hard work, we've done the heavy lifting, we've done the analysis, and we are using that causation. And we're using that information now to build a better future medically, Dr. Paul 51:17 for wonderful special children. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 51:19 Right. Exactly. That's Thank you for saying that, because that is what's important. So let's talk a little bit of personally with your life. So your son is 25. Correct. I'm guessing he still lives at home. Dr. Brian Hooker 51:31 He does live in home with my wife and I you have other children? No, I don't. Okay, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 51:36 so what type of therapies have you done yourself? Like when you got this autism diagnosis? Did you What did you do? First of all, I like what you just said you make you decided to see what the cause was. So for vaccine injury, knowing it was that what do you do? We detoxify Dr. Brian Hooker 51:55 my son first and foremost, and we culated mercury out of them because he got so much mercury from the Marisol from his infant vaccines. He was also hyper accumulating other toxins from this environment like antimony fire retardant materials. It was in his baby clothes it was in so we threw out all of his nice Carter's baby clothes, and we got the cheap stuff at Walmart that didn't have a fire retardant on it, because he was excreting animality from wood from antimony trioxide fire retardant. And so we had to detoxify him of antimony of mercury of aluminum, of uranium, which was high in the soil and the community where we live just naturally occurring uranium, arsenic in the water. And so there was a lot of detoxification and then a lot of support because we did genetic testing on him. And we knew that his pathways that were associated with detoxification, basically methylation and sulfation, were deficient, so we supported them as much as we could, with glutathione. We even did glutathione and N acetyl, cysteine IVs. We supported that those systems with vitamin B 12, injectable methyl b 12, not cyano cobalamin, but methyl cobalamin, and then also methylene, folate, and then continued on if he was diagnosed then in 2010, with a mitochondrial dysfunction. So we support his mitochondria with things like creatine carnitine, CO, q 10. We've continued with these protocols. And you just really don't stop with autism being medical, we work on healing as God we have a GI specialist that works with him in a combination of some pharmaceutical interventions, as well as supplements in order to heal his GI tract. And he gets scoped every four years, endoscopy and colonoscopy and pill cam to make sure that we're progressing in healing as God when we first got him diagnosed with gut dysbiosis it started his esophagus and went all the way down to his colon. Oh, wow. So there was a lot to do medically, to be able to give my son the best future. And then most recently, if I can continue, I this is a real long answer. Most recently, he's become a speller. And DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 54:24 that's gonna be my next question. Okay, go for it. Yeah, before you say too much. So I want to backtrack a little bit. So you do medical things. Was that like a yearly thing you've done because he's 25. Now you started back then was the gut thing. I just want to help people that are out there that are now dealing with us diagnosis. So you did the gut thing. We did the medical thing. So then the next step is what other kinds of therapies and communication is huge. That's the blocker is we finally figured out, which I have always known that these kids are in there and they can communicate with suggest the difficulty in that. So tell me about spellers for your son. Dr. Brian Hooker 55:05 We have known how smart my son is internally and known that it was just the the roadblocks in communicating and being able to put that forward. And this spellers method really breaks down the differences in terms of of motor planning, motor coordination, this dyspraxia and and a practice. Yeah. And we have worked so so hard on that my son started spelling about two and a half years ago. And you start out with three letter boards, and you ask them, he read stories to them. And then they're answering oral comprehension questions by pointing at the letters. Okay, and then ultimately, they work their way up to a single stencil letter board that has the 26 letters of the alphabet, and then the questions as they progress as their motor coordination. And we've actually also worked with a developmental optometrists for visual motor, as well, in conjunction with the spellers program and the spellers program actually contacted and helped us reach out to this developmental optometrist to do this, and so my son has worked his way up to a 26 letter board. And with his practitioner, he can openly communicate now it's difficult because change is difficult. And so my son can go further with his practitioner right down in San Diego than he can with my wife and I, he still struggles to communicate openly with my wife and I, but he can communicate openly and we're practicing we practice. Every day we spell for an hour a day with my son and two half hour segments. And the thing is that he's related, that things are life changing. We having my son, wish his mom, a Happy Mother's Day today, her this year was just it was such a treat. We were in tears, these things that have you that have been unlocked, are so vital in as he's continuously improving. Then we look at other spellers who have moved from a letter board to a keyboard, they're using iPads. People like JB Handley and his son, Jamie Cade Larson and his mom, Jen, are so inspirational to us. We've met with Caden, Jen, personally, directly, my son has met Cade, and been able to interact with him. And so the sky's the limit, we're so happy with this, and we really feel like we're unlocking our son, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 57:42 then I'm guessing your advices never give up. Because the more whether it's technology or medical interventions, or whatever, they're, the more they're coming out. One last question about him personally, is, where's he at socially? And what kind of development have you seen there as far as, like, when I work with some of the children that I do, but first, there's no eye contact, there's, they don't want me to touch them. There's a lot of different and that's why they work with me is to be able to talk to me to use eye contact, or even if they're nonverbal, to be able to let them touch them and work on them, and help them with some of the physical pain they have. Where's your son in that aspect? Dr. Brian Hooker 58:23 My son is the ultimate charmer. He works diligently at his spelling, and I used to teach I'm now retired at a university that had a very prolific nursing program. And so we would go take him down to the coffee shop, and he's nonverbal, but he could still use his Wiles to charm all all the nursing students. He is he's quite a charmer. And interestingly enough that you don't think that they pick up on social cues. You don't think that they understand social cues. But this recently happened. We were having a spelling session, and my son was in incredible pain. So we had a meltdown. But he had the presence of mind. And it was frustrating to me and my wife was there. We were both in the room with him. We were spelling. And it was very frustrating to him. It was frustrating to me. And then the next interaction he calmed down, we were able to get him some relief for his pain. The next interaction that he had with me as I walked into his room, he came over he gave me a big hug. And he kissed me on the cheek. Oh my goodness, it was like, I don't know if he was apologizing or what was going on. But it was affirming to me and it was exactly what he knew exactly what I needed emotionally to cannot get discouraged to keep on pressing on Sunday spelling goes well, some days it doesn't. There's a lot of pain that's involved in my son system. And so we have to monitor to that pain. And it's a breakthrough because now he can tell us where the pain is. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 59:58 Right exactly. I'm so happy for you. I look forward to seeing you. Lots of times, I'm gonna like you, they're just gonna get to hang out and be great friends. And I absolutely love your son. Yeah, I'm a huge fan of yours. So thank you for taking time to talk to me Doc always asks for that last word to everybody out there. What do you use? Just personally to some of these dads, a lot of the work for autism for children, when parents need to stay home when someone needs to be there. It's normally put on the mom, generally, that's changing a lot now, but what do you say to the dads? How can these dads even though they're working and doing these other things? How can they really be a part of their children's lives, even though they may feel like they don't even understand them? Dr. Brian Hooker 1:00:47 It is an emotional struggle as a dad, there's a different type of emotional struggle that I think that goes through. There's a lot of pain, there's a lot of guilt. I wish I was independently wealthy and I could spend 24/7 with my son and just work on him and spell and do therapies and all this. That's not tenable. That's not possible. But you really dad need to be able to get it's worth the effort to get to know and really know and understand your wonderful special child, adult son or daughter, it is so worth it. And the other thing is that you never give up neuroplasticity is not for babies, neuroplasticity is for a lifetime. And they've shown that with patients that have recovered from major ailments like strokes and things like that. We are recovering our son from a brain dysfunction, a brain injury that has other things associated with it. And so therefore, we will never, ever stop on that. And I want to encourage dads not to stop not to give up. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 1:01:54 No, no matter how hard it gets. I think that's the thing. And that's that Father's love that I see in you. It's so special. Thank you very much, doctor for talking to me. Dr. Brian Hooker 1:02:04 Thank you so much, didi. It's always a pleasure. I'm so glad that I'm able to be on the show. Dr. Paul 1:02:14 I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world. It's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul. Transcribed by https://otter.ai PDF:TEXT:Dr. Paul 0:06
Dr. Paul, welcome to with the wind science revealed. My guest today is Richard Moscowitz. family practitioner for 50 years, we discuss natural versus vaccine induced immunity, the importance of getting childhood infections. And then he shares deeply from his heart with DD profound insights about not having his own family follow his approach, and on what the word truth means. Enjoy the show. Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart, we're going to touch on the unknown and what to do about it. You know, in the fall, we've typically been worried about flu, it's a seasonal thing. Now, it's not just flu, it's COVID, RSV, and the flu. Nothing has happened yet. And yet, you've sensed this anxiety and tension around at all. So I would encourage you to think about this, make a decision now, before anything happens about what you're going to do. So if they mandate masks, I'm not going to wear them. If their mandates for vaccines, I won't comply. If we have a total lockdown in the state I'm living in. I'll leave the state. I think if we make those decisions ahead of time, there'll be a lot less fear, and you can move through it Evers coming with a sense of confidence and peace. Welcome Richard Moskowitz to with the wind science revealed it's such a privilege to have you on the show. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 1:54 Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you, Paul. Dr. Paul 1:57 I wished I had known you probably about 45 years ago, you were on top of a lot of the information I've had to sort out over the last couple of decades. And you've been on top of this. So I'm really looking forward to talking to you. Right? You have been doing family practice for 50 years, actually, since I was 10 years old. You are working in the homeopathy area for I think about 45 of those years. You've written five books, couple of them on homeopathy in 1992 and 2001. I've just finished going through your vaccines, every appraisal that you published in 2017. That book is so timely for folks who haven't to be listening and haven't heard of that book. It's that one right there. It's so well done. So thank you for that. You've written so many articles homeopathy, vaccines, chronic disease. As we get started, I like to get to know know you a little better. Can you talk about your journey? Maybe if you want as far as right back from childhood, through medical school, and what got you to go towards homeopathy? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 3:03 Boy, that's a good story. Yeah, hi, I just, I never felt right. In medical school. It just didn't. I had ethical problems. But I also had scientific problems. And they were all mixed up together. And it really, you know, it really wasn't until later until I started practicing. It was during the Vietnam era. And I realized that the imagery of medicine is military. That was anti biotics seen anti hypertensives and the war against cancer and it was military and I was active in the anti war movement and put it to me in a clearer way. That was dense, Dr. Paul 3:51 I think back to our residency training. And there's this hierarchy, just like in the military, of the medical student looks up to the intern who looks up to the resident who looks up to the attending. And the orders come from above we follow right. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 4:04 Exactly, exactly. And there were orders that I couldn't follow that I but I wasn't, I was too timid to protest them. I just would have sent myself. When I was a junior in college, I got a traineeship in biochemistry at a Cancer Research Lab in Maine. And an involved was very routine and involve injecting some mice with various chemicals and checking the electro phoretic patterns of their serum proteins, which was a new method at that time. And then you would sacrifice the animals at the end of it, which was maybe three or four a week. And then I just it horrified me. I just felt the routine pneus of it really. I felt like I was being trained to be Dr. Mengele in this place. was in house tickets for mice, Dr. Paul 5:03 pretty other mice are not treated well in medicine, that's for sure. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 5:06 So I would just go to the library and hide out there. I just didn't want to do it. Dr. Paul 5:13 Yeah. Hey, was there something in your childhood that sort of prepared you to be aware of these things, or maybe to be different than the standard medical student. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 5:24 But it's interesting, because I've thought about that a lot. And what I always come up with is my grandfather's death at the age of five or six. And I remember when I saw him in his last days, and he looked really sick, and I took it, that night, I realized that he was going to die, and that I was going to die. And it just and it was shared me, it was a standard of truth that was utterly unprecedented for me. So it just, it just crystallized for me something that was completely unacceptable, and yet completely certain. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with why I became a physician because because I basically, academically inclined, I'm very studious, and a professional life history or philosophy would have probably suited me better. But for some people, I needed to deal with this in some way. And and at the same time, it was so frightening to me that I'm sure it also had to do with my reluctance to study and at the same time, Dr. Paul 6:40 but doctors are all about preventing death. So how did that how did that set you apart from others? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 6:46 Say that, again, Dr. Paul 6:47 we're not actors in general. And we were all taught and we were all about, we're going to keep people alive no matter what. So it's about preventing, about preventing death. But your you went a different route, it seems. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 6:57 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what was a powerful teaching experience. For me a learning experience, who's one of the formative experiences of my life, I'm sure. And, and it continued, like when I was in high school, and I tried out for the football team. And they had us running up and down the field, doing wind sprints, and I was getting really winded. So I went to the doctor by myself for the first time. I was like, 15. And he practiced my chest, and he listened to my lungs. And he sat there very thoughtfully. And really, he said, sonny boy, we can all be Jackie Robinson, let's be crushed, though I was. It liberated me for a feeling that I had to live up to the impossible standards that I had subconsciously set myself is my brother and my father were both very athletic. And so I was able to play for two seasons, and I enjoyed the rough and tumble of the game, and I didn't get hurt too bad, and it was fine. But then at the same time, I got a job as an orderly in the local hospital. And I was cleaning up all this stuff, and Dr. Paul 8:14 we share that experience. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 8:18 And I just had the sense that the needs of patients were overwhelming that and inexhaustible, no matter how much care and love we distilled on them, it was not going to be enough. Yeah. And so again, the same ambivalence was there. I love the way this doctor was with me. He was, and he inspired me. So that ambivalence was basic to my evolution and Dr. Paul 8:46 interesting. So you've had this ambivalence that goes throughout your childhood, and then plays out after during and after residency. You're now practicing as a family practitioner. Were you in solo practice? Yes. So one of the true pioneers of which called the old traditional family doc, exactly. Like you were delivering babies at home and taking family. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 9:13 Yeah, I was out in Colorado, when I started, I got my fellowship in philosophy. I, before I interned and went into practice, I took a fellowship in philosophy I just had to get into something academic that was that I couldn't think about an without even consciously thinking about what I just been through, but somehow it was an asylum that I needed. And and that was that was the time of the the hippies and the counterculture and he's 14 year old kids were running away from home and smoking dope and dropping acid and having sex was low right there and bolded Dr. Paul 9:55 since you preceded by entering into the world of medicine by at least 50 in yours, I'd really be curious. Let's pivot to the topic of childhood vaccines. Because that's such an important topic for our listeners today. Oh, yeah, that that whole schedule has exploded. What was it like when you started practice with regards to vaccines? What was going on at that point? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 10:18 Before I answer that question, I just want to say that it was always an important subject for me. And in the beginning, it was just a gut feeling. And I just didn't like the idea of doing it. I didn't know why exactly other than a lot of the diseases were not that serious, and just requiring people to do it and not being allowed to go to school if they didn't, and it just seemed way out of proportion. Dr. Paul 10:49 Yeah. And were those mandates in place when you started practice? There were Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 10:53 a few, but they weren't enforced that strictly. Especially in Massachusetts, by the time I moved there, that was in 82. It was there. There were a few mandates. But you could the courts had decided in Massachusetts that in order to claim a religious exemption, it was just a personal way to you didn't have to belong to some kooky church or anything. And Dr. Paul 11:17 I was in med school at that point. And I think all we had was the DPT the polio and the MMR. Yeah, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 11:23 the MMR was already lactam in the 60s, I think. Yeah. Dr. Paul 11:29 So when you started practice, were you doing some vaccines? No. No, do you ever do vaccines? Never. So So did you use homeopathy like homeo prophylaxis or not? No, I Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 11:45 think, um, then Dr. Paul 11:46 what was your experience? Here's folks, we got a doctor I'm talking to who had 50 years of practice with families children included, what was your experience with the diseases for which there were vaccines? In other words, presumably, you would have lost a bunch of patients to measles, mumps, rubella, and whooping cough and all those things. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 12:07 No, he did. He didn't, not one. They know that. Those most of those were diseases of children that were ordinary that I had myself, I remember vividly having the measles when I was seven, or eight, or whatever it was staying home from school for a week and my mother waiting on me hand and flick Those were the days when the mother stayed home. There were two paycheck families back then so much. And so I had a grand old time. And then later, I began to study and I found that coming down with and recovering from an acute disease, like the measles, actually protected from developing cancer and autoimmune diseases later in the future. But that was that was quite a bit later. In the beginning, like I said, it was just a gut feeling. And then by the time I went to Boston, I decided that I was going to take a year off and just study. And so I got into immunology a little bit stuff I should have learned in med school, but it really wasn't emphasized at all. And it really impressed me that that basis of coming down with and recovering from an acute illness like the measles, that's an acute phenomenon. It's like the whole immune system is mobilized. And there are all these separate mechanisms that are concerning, and going on simultaneously, with coordination, and the result of all of that all of the cytokines and macrophages and all of that was to expel the foreign organism from the body. And whereas with the vaccine, it's the opposite. It's like you want it you have it has to stay in there in order to keep making those antibodies because you can't achieve real immunity, using one mechanism separate from all those others. Vaccination is a chronic phenomenon, by definition. Dr. Paul 14:26 And your book made that really clear in a very nice way, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 14:31 if I can. But that was just like intellectual. It's still here. I was in practice. And it didn't really hit me until I started seeing the patients with that in mind. And what I found was that there were so many vaccines so close together, that it was very difficult to tell first of all, it was very hard to tell what any specific vaccine was. doing. First of all, notice what we were trying to do is to look for this vaccine and that vaccine, not the vaccination process per se. We don't even think about that. So. So that was one thing in the beginning, what I saw were things that could be related to a specific vaccine because the symptoms were vaguely similar to the disease that it was supposed to be prevented. And by a lot of the vaccines were tripled to begin with. And there were so many being given so often, that it was impossible to tell for sure that it was because of the vaccine because the disease was coming and going anyway. But what stopped what I started to notice by the late 80s, I think it was the kids were reacting nonspecific way. They were reacting, they were more prone to develop whatever to diseases regarding around the neighborhood, or most of the wall. It was making worse, the chronic illnesses that they already had. Dr. Paul 16:09 Yeah, so I wanted to ask you go go back a little bit in your career there at the beginning and leading up to the mid 1980s. Let's say, I don't recall, I was just a kid. And then I was in training. I don't recall chronic disease being very prevalent. I never saw a case of autism growing up. I didn't see a case in medical school. I saw a couple of mild cases of PDD when I was in pediatric residency. And there just were very few chronically ill kids. Did you have that same experience? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 16:39 Yes. And no, I'm going back now to my internship to my medical schools. And what was truly shocking to me about medical school was that I will I grew up thinking about disease as an acute phenomenon that that was something you turn down with, you got over it, or you didn't know or you die. But somehow in Bellevue Hospital in New York disease was the overwhelming something. It was there in the atmosphere of the ward, I could almost smell it when the beds were empty. So I had dystopian fantasies about that. But you're right. On a clinical level, I didn't see a lot of a lot of chronic diseases. It's just that Dr. Paul 17:27 about kids, since you were family practice. You were also seeing adults. And I remember rotating in the VA hospital and everybody smokes and drinks and they've got all the problems related to that. But for kids, do you remember seeing a lot of chronic disease? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 17:42 No, you're right. No. And even when I got to Boston, the main one that I was seeing was ear infections, chronic ear infections, right? What was like, ubiquitous? And no. Dr. Paul 17:56 While you're on that, I got to ask you, how about your personal practice, since you were not vaccinating? In your unvaccinated children, where they're getting all these chronic ear infections, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 18:08 somewhat, but not nearly to the same extent. But that was that took a while to see I just had to accumulate a big number of cases. And the whole thing evolves very slowly. But it was just fortifying me in this feeling like just don't do this, that this is a source of chronic disease. And the perfect example, if you read the book, you probably remember this, but it's the purest example of making worse what's already there. I had a kid that I had seen as a child in elementary school, she had OCD really bad. She was wetting the bed. And I gave her a bunch of remedies. And finally I hit on one, I think it was arsenic amalgam. And it just went away. And she was great. She was essentially symptom free for over 10 years. And then it was time for her to go to college, they required an MMR booster. And within a week, the whole thing came back just like it used to be. It was like, I knew immediately, there was no question in the mother's mind or in my mind, what was happening. And fortunately, the same medicine was extremely effective once again, and she best college no problem. And she went on and got married and had kids of her own. She was fine. But I said this over and over again. Yeah, I Dr. Paul 19:49 know. You mentioned that beautifully in the book that you would see these kids who had chronic conditions who had been vaccinated in some other practice, right come to see you for all you have to be managed. But I imagine, right and you eventually are able to find the right remedy and help them recover. Somehow they get another vaccine or series of vaccines, and they go right back into their chronic problems. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 20:12 Yeah, yeah. Is that it? Dr. Paul 20:16 That is so powerful that statement that you just made. In my case, it was I didn't have the homeopathy remedies, because that's not in my wheelhouse to recover kids necessarily, I Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 20:27 would help kids recover in different ways. And generally, they would ever go back to getting vaccines again. But I imagine if they had similar experience would have happened. The other the other thing that made it invisible, was that in order to show it really clearly, the kid had to be essentially be symptom free for a period of time. And then when they get the booster, it's back. And so the parents see it. And even the pediatrician sees it. It's he's still involved in the case. Right, whereas giving them antibiotics and suppressive drugs doesn't do that. If if you gave them herbs, perhaps or acupuncture was some other thing. might well do the same thing. But But ordinarily, you're still going to get the ebbs and flows of new chronic illness that that is isn't doesn't that conceals it, it makes it somewhat invisible. Yeah. And the other thing is that it would be a simple matter to investigate this claim. By simply let me just say this, that the the diseases involved the ram, the whole gamut, of Pediatrics, of normal pediatrics that, you know, the autoimmune diseases and named neuro diseases and the ADHD and the autism and everything, it was all in the shoot. And it didn't matter which vaccine it was. It didn't matter what disease it was, or how severely the kid suffered from it. The same exact pattern was true. Dr. Paul 22:10 And so that pattern being they could recover with, we copy homeopathy and then if they got vaccinated again, they regressed right back to their chronic. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 22:21 I call it making worse what's already there. Yeah. Except what that omits is that the times when it actually initiates the disease when or it first makes it manifests where before I heard only Bin Laden, perhaps, yeah. Dr. Paul 22:37 Imagine you heard your fair share of stories of kids who are doing fine got a vaccine or a series of vaccines regressed into autism? And what percentage of those kids were you able to help recover? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 22:51 I didn't actually have occasion to treat that many of them but pretty good. I'd say I did well, although like I published a case of an autistic kid that that I treated very successfully, but he was still autistic t he was still handicap he was growing up. He was a nice kid. He was he had a job. He was, by the time I stopped seeing him. He was in his 20s. But he still was gonna need help. He wasn't cured by any stretch. But he was he was capable of living a life. Yeah. And, and I would say that that would be what I would expect. Dr. Paul 23:35 Yeah, there's a whole range of recovery I've experienced from almost complete to always often they get stuck at the Add ADHD, when you're getting recovering a child who was severely autistic, you want to go back to something that I think is perhaps the most important thing you've shared both in your book and alluded to in the beginning of our interview, and that is natural immunity versus the vaccine induced immunity, I think, for our people to understand the difference and how so important it is to actually stay on the natural immunity side of things. Don't just start the immunity with vaccines. You write about that. And it's complicated. When we get into our medical thinking about it, and the cytokines and all that stuff. It can become a little overwhelming. But in just layman's terms, how could you try describing that for our listeners? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 24:27 Sure. There are a number of mechanisms that come into play when their foreign organism develop, you develop an infection from an acute infection, usually with fever. So the first thing you do the mucous membranes of the portal of entry, the place where it comes in are sensitized. And that's so that you can then expel them through the same route. Why sneezing or coughing the same way you acquired it in the first place? then you have macrophages who are wild that are wandering around in the blood and pick up foreign organisms and try to digest them. And you have cytokines, you have these specialized proteins that will signal to macrophages to go where they're supposed to go, or the monocytes, as the case may be. Dr. Paul 25:24 And I use the term PacMan, like for macrophages for people to illustrate is gobbling up whatever infection, exactly, that process is getting the disease out before it ever gets a deep foothold in the body. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 25:38 And then you have the serum complement these proteins that assist that, that process that I forget actually what they do exactly, but they somehow help to clump them and make it easier for the macrophages to do their work. And then you have the cytokines as I said to signals, and then finally, you begin to develop antibodies. And I remember in the case of the measles, the antibodies start to appeared at the same time that the symptoms are appearing. And, and the antibodies are again assisting the process. So it's well coordinated together, you can achieve the expulsion of the virus or the bacterium, whatever it happens to be, by any one of those mechanisms by itself. It's a coordinated process. That's the main thing, Dr. Paul 26:36 right? That first phase where you've got the cellular activity going on with macrophages and all that I think we refer to that more as innate immunity or natural immunity, cellular Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 26:47 cellular immunity. Great. Yeah. And that's what governs. That's what regulates the whole part. The antibodies are special in the sense that they're called the humoral aspect. And they depend on that. Yeah, Dr. Paul 27:03 they're what gives you memory later on. To some extent, there actually is memory at the cellular level now to that's been published. But our prior understanding was you needed the antibodies to have memory. So you could fight the infection in the future. And the whole vaccine industry, correct me if I'm wrong, just focused on antibodies? Yes. And so they're focusing on this last phase of preventing infection? Yes. And the infection has to get into the body and take over and then you get antibodies. So when you do antibodies artificially with vaccines, I think that's the problem, right? You haven't provided the way to keep the infection out of the body. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 27:42 You haven't expelled it, you quite the opposite. You drink deeper into the internal organs of the immune system, and must be there because if it weren't there, it doesn't get encrypted into the cells unless you expel it. So it has to stay there. Yeah. And Dr. Paul 28:05 then, can you explain for folks because I know, let's just take measles as an example, because people are always so afraid of measles. And like you I had measles as a child and I was in Africa. Yeah, it was not fun, but it wasn't horrible. And all our my siblings and our friends got measles. We have lasting immunity. I know if you were born 1957, which was my birth year or before, you don't ever have to go get a measles vaccine, they know that we're naturally protected. Compare that to what kind of protection you get from the vaccine. And where do we go from here, given the fact that we have a whole two generations of folks who are vaccinated as far as their immunity? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 28:47 Yeah, I call it counterfeit, or fake immunity. It's it's it's the shadow the but it lacks the substance. And above all, it lacks this immunity is both specific and specific. That is, you have the specific immunity against the disease that you've already had. But you also have the priming of the immune mechanism as a whole, to deal with whatever infections are going to come about in the future. And in some way that really needs to be investigated. I think that is what's protective. That's what makes it less likely that you're going to develop autoimmune diseases and cancer later in life. And that's what we need to understand that it's ironic that I think vaccines are the way for us to understand that because we know or we should know or we will know, that's one of the main ways that chronic diseases occur. And we know how vaccines work because we've studied we have to study that in order to make them do whatever It is that they do. So it could be a valuable tool for us. Dr. Paul 30:05 Yeah. So if I understood what you're saying correctly, you and I who had measles naturally, we got specific immunity for against measles, but we also got this nonspecific protection, that helps us not only prevent other chronic diseases, but probably if the measles virus was to mutate or change, we would recognize it because of the nonspecific immunity that we got, I think for COVID. Let's pivot to that. And I'm just interested in your thoughts about that. Kids did well, unvaccinated kids, I had a practice with, I don't know, close to 10,000 patients during the early parts of COVID. And not one kid ended up in the hospital, their parents might get a little bit sick kids did fine. I'm guessing that's that same thing they've seen coronaviruses in the past. And so they have that nonspecific recognition of that family of viruses and they just get rid of that. But what are your thoughts about COVID? What's happened where we're headed? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 30:59 Yeah, COVID that's a whole other level of business. Same problem, but Naomi Klein calls a disaster capitalism. I think, I think she would disown my applying it to this phenomenon, but that's alright. That she doesn't own it exclusively anymore. It's public now. Um, but yeah, you have had disaster as the opportunity for various marketable reforms to take place that otherwise would not take place. I think it started even before the COVID when the drug companies made their big offensive to eliminate the exemptions to the vaccines back in 2015 1617 18, there were a few measles outbreaks, and they were trying to eliminate the personal belief in philosophical and religious exemptions, and succeeded in California, for example, yeah, Dr. Paul 32:06 California, New York and Maine were added to the list of Mississippi and West Virginia. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 32:13 Soon, yeah, it's ironic that was true in Mississippi, because that's one of the one of the reddest states and it illustrates the about face that has taken place. Dr. Paul 32:29 So what would your recommendation be for parents? They just added the COVID jab to the childhood immunization schedule starting at six months, as you probably are aware, what would you tell parents if they go into their pediatrician and their pediatrician says there's a new, there's a new variant coming out and these vaccines are they're safe and effective, they've improved them? What would you tell those parents? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 32:53 In Word, I would say don't do it. But I would go on to say that the vaccines are special. This is really the first time that a vaccine has been given in the midst of an outbreak rather than to prevent it in the indefinite future. So that, really, and it's since been found out, it's surely I'm sure it was known even before this, but it's been publicly admitted that it doesn't prevent transmission. So the only effect of the new Mr. mRNA vaccines is simply to treat the illness, essentially, to lessen its severity to relieve the symptoms. So it's a it's a rival of the already existing drugs that do have such an effect, but have been banned because of that reason, too, because they are competing with this new product. So you have a lot of cynicism here because it was clear that I'm sure that they must have known that right at the beginning, but they didn't say so they imply that it would prevent a disease to begin with. And of Dr. Paul 34:11 course, it hasn't really started off by saying they rolled this out during an active pandemic. And you were alluding to the fact that was a big mistake. Why is that? Why is it a big mistake? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 34:23 First of all, there are two two or two main reasons. The first is that they made a lockdown of the society and the reason the shut, they shut down. They locked people in their homes, they couldn't go to work, their businesses began to fail. It became a catastrophic phenomenon for the whole country, such that we the epidemiologist, right from the beginning said don't do this. This is a big mistake. And Dr. Paul 34:55 in retrospect, it sure seemed unnecessary, that's for sure. They were saying you got to keep kids out of school and keep them on masked up and isolated so you can protect grandma. And based on all the conversation we've had, prior to this point, had we let the kids all go to school, they would have developed even more robust natural immunity, and therefore they would have protected grandma, they would have been that shield. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 35:20 And therefore, we wouldn't have needed the vaccine in that. It sounds like a conspiracy theory to say it, but it's obviously the case that that had been true. The outbreak would have been searched by the summer of 2020. Yeah, and and Luke muntanya. He said it very clearly that by vaccinating in the midst of the epidemic, you're leaving SPIE you're prolonging the outbreak, and you're making room for lots of variants to appear. Dr. Paul 35:49 And it is already happened, right? So many they were already they Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 35:53 were already appearing, the virus was already notorious for its mutability, but this made it even even worse. Dr. Paul 36:01 Yep. So when they make that same recommendations, it looks like they're coming soon. But you gotta get this new COVID Jab, they've now addressed new variants babalao, it's just the same problem, right? We're still in the middle of an ongoing, endemic, if you will, it's not even a pandemic, it's this thing is here to stay. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 36:18 Yeah. And I think that, that they, it's their last ditch thing as if they understand that this whole thing is gonna blow up in their face. One of these days, unfortunately, a lot of people are going to die or be crippled. Before we, we figure it out, Dr. Paul 36:37 by crippled by the disease or by the vaccine or the shot rather, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 36:42 by everything by by being poor at a time of lockdown by all sorts of things. We had the most eminent epidemiologist who were saying this rights in the beginning in 2020. And can he get kowski, for example, at the Rockefeller Institute, or and he just said it straight out, he said, Let the kids get it, their risk is practically zero. This is the way we've always dealt with these things. Yeah. Yeah. And he'd been epidemiologists who are pro vaccine thought it was a big mistake. I'm trying to think of who Dr. Paul 37:22 I completely agree with you, as we wrap up, and then DeeDee is going to come get personal with you dig into who you are as a man or if you're a father or grandfather, those sort of things. What would you like to leave as take home message to our viewers, take your vast 50 years of private family practice the world as it is today? What do you want people to know and understand? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 37:45 Mainly, that, I think we need to look at healing in a different way, from simply forcing the body to behave in whatever targeted ways we think it should. But rather than forcing the body to behave, I think we need to stimulate, find ways to stimulate or encourage it to behave and have some appreciation for the natural process that's already there. Rather than trying to see the illness purely as an enemy, Dr. Paul 38:22 like that, what would be the top ways that a person can facilitate, promote, encourage the natural healing process, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 38:30 first of all, by by removing things that are obviously going to poison that. And that's, I think the big topic for us today is chronic disease. That's, that's where we're at, it's exploding. And we need to investigate that. And it would be a relatively simple matter to do it. All we would have to do would be to measure the all cause mortality and morbidity of vaccinated versus unvaccinated, for example, and do that in an independent way that wasn't simply paid for by the drug companies. And then we would learn something and then we could use what we know about the vaccines to teach us how this process gets underway. But anyway, that's more specific than your question. Show. Yeah, just appreciate the healing power of nature of the body as its evolved over these millennia, that most acute diseases with fever are benign and important. And we tend we have the power to overcome them with help, of course, Dr. Paul 39:42 yes. Not the fear of disease, Spore. Yeah. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 39:46 But the chronic diseases, that's a whole different thing, then they're in there. They have a tendency to continue to be there. So we have to treat that in a different way than simply making war on them. Dr. Paul 39:59 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. I'm gonna invite DD who were to come chat with you for a few minutes. And we may have to do this again to tackle chronic disease. Okay, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:10 so tell me a little bit about you. Just before we started talking right now, you had mentioned you have a wife. How long have you been married? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 40:19 Let's see now. Just shy of 40 years. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:23 Oh, wow. That's amazing. So do you have children? Yes. How many? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 40:29 I have one son by a previous marriage. Okay. And with my present wife, I have a daughter, but it's it was my stepdaughter, originally. But I've adopted her. So she say that's nice. And she's now she's like, 50. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:49 Okay. We don't want to reveal your age, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 40:52 or she has. So we have three grandchildren. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:56 Okay. And that's what I was gonna ask is because I think that's the thing is sometimes people forget that. Just like Dr. Paul, and how many kids and he has grandchildren, I think we forget that. You are still this wonderful man and this person who has a life outside of all of the work you do, especially with being an author and all the things you've done. So tell me about you have a son and a daughter and you have grandkids. Tell me about with your beliefs on vaccines. How have they been with that? Did they just follow in line with you? Or was there ever any? Nope? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 41:31 Okay. No. No, they're think I'm wacko. Okay. They appreciate my style, my my way of beating with patience. They liked that. But they, it's a little different with each one. But generally speaking, I would say that, number one, they don't particularly go for homeopathy. My wife is like, she has used I've used it with her for various acute things, sometimes success and sometimes not. But if she had like a chronic thing of some sort, she wouldn't go to a homeopath. Okay, she likes the philosophy of it, but she doesn't like, she doesn't go for the technique of it. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 42:20 Okay, and that's your wife or your daughter. That's my wife. Okay. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 42:25 My daughter feels the same way. And we're in she's she's married to a scientist who works for NASA. And he loves to talk to me. We have great discussions, but he too, he thinks I'm really out to lunch. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 42:40 I know I'm shaking my head because it's so when you are in that world, and all the people you've treated and all the results and all the things we're seeing, and they're still those people that sit outside of that that Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 42:51 cannot entertain me even more sad. During the COVID. Yeah. Because everybody was getting vaccinated and glad to get it. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 43:06 I know. And so I'm guessing your grandchildren. Are they CDC scheduled vaccinated? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 43:13 I'm not sure exactly to what extent they've followed the CDC routine, they may have a Britain should slightly like my daughter, for example. She got she and my wife to got the original vaccine, the COVID and the booster and one booster and that was it. No more. They're, they're done. So a certain amount of skepticism. Is there about the system? DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 43:42 How do you feel about that? Personally, is that tough that? I'm guessing you did not get the vaccine? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 43:48 No, I didn't. And no, it was a source of some argument with my wife because she said it very eloquently. I think she said, Look, I'm not caring so much about what's going to happen. 10 years from now, I want to have a life right now. I want to travel. And we love to travel. And we haven't been able to. And she's very worried about me getting the COVID I had an autoimmune disease myself about seven years ago that we just sometimes fatal, and I did very well with it. But she's worried that will come back. And indeed, that's been my very general experience with vaccines that they make worse, was already there. So I was worried about it too. So I wore a mask and such. I was quite quite religious about it even although not when I was outside. But if I went to the bank or the grocery store, I would wear the mask. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 44:54 I think that's the thing is and I'm sure you would agree is whatever your choices are. They're your choices. So my next question is if you could do things differently with your life now, if you could go back, would you still pick the same route as a family doctor or knowing what you know about vaccines? Now you have all this knowledge going back? Would you be a pediatrician? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 45:18 No, I think I'd like to just the way it was I, I had a long journey in medicine, and it was pretty torturous at times. And there were when I left, when I graduated from medical school, I left medicine completely. I got a fellowship in philosophy, I went to graduate school. Okay, that's cool. I didn't think I would ever see a patient again. Okay. But when I finally did, and did the internship, and went into practice, and then finally, when I discovered OB oxy, and even before that, what I was doing home births, for example. I loved it, it was wonderful. I wouldn't change it. It showed me a way that I could be part of the medical profession and be proud of it. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 46:05 No, and that's the thing is, obviously you've done that, and you had a an amazing, successful practice. So I think that's part of it. I always asked that question, though, with knowing what we know about COVID and the different things. I always think that there's doctors like yourself who know me and knew what a ton of stuff back then that I always feel like prevention is the biggest thing and I feel like pediatrics is the way to do that. And so many pediatricians are not on that page. So we they, we definitely the world could use more people like you in that space where we could start from the moment that baby is born and teach those parents how to do everything, right. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 46:42 But I'll tell you, I've always loved taking care of old people, too. For a while, after I after I finished my internship, I was for a while I was like taking care of the old folks home that was attached to the hospital. I was the doctor in charge. And I loved that. It was a now that I'm old myself, it just fits right in. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 47:10 That's awesome. So are you completely retired? Or do you still work at all? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 47:13 No, I'm completely retired. Okay. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 47:16 So last question for you is what would you say? Just personally in your life? Why do you think people still have the fear that they do over COVID and the diseases that they feel vaccines could actually help? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 47:33 I think that, in spite of everything, people still revere Doc seresin The technical achievements that it has achieved, in a sense, right? And you can there were plenty of times when the system that I've spent so much time criticizing bailed me out when I was in trouble. Right. And, but with vaccines, it's especially so there is a an almost religious reverence that's attached to that idea. That has been cultivated, of course, by the drug industry, to be sure, but also by the medical profession. And it's sunk in so people like Shona, Saul, and Sabin, and all of those quotes are heroes in the popular imagination, and I can see why I think that it's that, that the belief in vaccines is, is based on a misconception. I'm not fanatical about being anti vaccine, I'm just saying that there's another side, there's a downside to them that we're not looking at. And it's true of all of them. It's true of the concept, not just this particular one or that particular one. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 48:51 I think that's what's tough too, is just because of the way the world is and media and society and all that. The truth. I know the truth, we all know those things. But as long as people have fear, then they're, I don't feel like they hear clearly. And so yes, you're right. They're gonna listen to doctors that think they should vaccinate or listen to the media or listen to those things. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 49:14 I don't want to say that I have the truth. I don't think I have the truth. I have part of the truth. They have part of the truth. You all have some truth. I remember a philosophy professor who happened to be a patient of mine when I was in Santa Fe. He's he said to me, sadly said everything is true. I love that because it really is true. No matter how far out belief is there. There is a certain there is a certain something to it. I'm talking about someone who lives through their teeth and I'm not going to mention any names. But if Yeah, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 50:00 That's the thing and don't use it to for you personally with your wife. And I don't know if it's one or both of your children who they found. Dr. Paul, I talked about this all the time, because he thinks there's one truth. And I'm always like, again, depending on what you feel that you make that your truth for them, their truth was they needed to do this to protect themselves. Right? So do you just in parting words, because we're running out of time, but parting words? What do you say to these new mamas out there that are just really fearful of they, they want to do the best thing, obviously, for their child and the world that Dr. Paul and I work and we have a lot of people who do Homeopathics I was just at a birth with they used Homeopathics throughout the years to help her. Yeah, it was incredible. I was blown away. I've never seen that before. It was great. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 50:54 My first book was based on that. Oh, cool. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 50:58 Love to read that one. What do you say to those new mamas who are trying to make the best decisions for themselves? Who do you tell them? Besides Dr. Pol? Who do you tell them to listen to? What who should? Who should they put their trust in? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 51:13 I would encourage them to do their own research to, to so that when they go to someone, they have a question, they have a question clearly in mind. And then they'll be able to judge whether this person is right for them or not, depending on how they answer it. Right? Yeah, I think people have a pretty good sense of what's going to help them and what's not going to help them. And even though it may be like you say maybe based on a false belief, but it will guide them to do what they need to do at the time, even if it's turns out to be mistaken. So I don't try to evangelize too much with patients. But if they asked me straight out, it's they say, should I should I vaccinate? I would certainly say no, I would advise against it. And these are the reasons. But I a lot of my patients should continue to vaccinate to some extent. I didn't disown them if they didn't go along. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 52:17 Oh, thank God for that. And I think that's the biggest piece too. And we can end with is thank you for that. I'm glad that you said that. Because that's the toughest thing in pediatrics is that if parents don't choose to vaccinate their selves, their children fully in some of these pediatric practices, they are kicked out. And that's why Dr. Pol had such a prominent practice in with unvaccinated families or just honoring informed consent. You. So thank you for that. Thank you for your time and letting me dive into who you are. Man, I wish you I wish you your best and hopefully you can talk your grandchildren into not having your great grandchildren vaccinated. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 53:00 I have a new book coming out and I'm really DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 53:04 can you announce it? Sure. What is it? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 53:08 It's called sawbones. What's it? It's not Bones was an old term that was used out west to describe just any old doctor and it was a little bit even a little bit derogatory. Even it was like, Oh, he's a sawbones. All he does is amputated limbs and stuff. Like I used it because it's really about basic doctoring in the most basic sense, which is very much what I was involved in. Okay, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 53:36 thank you very much for your time. And I look forward to meeting you in person someday. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 53:41 Me too. It's nice to meet you. Dr. Paul 53:49 I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world. It's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul. Transcribed by https://otter.ai PDF:TEXT:Dr. Paul 0:06
Dr. Paul, welcome to with the wind science revealed. My guest today is Richard Moscowitz. family practitioner for 50 years, we discuss natural versus vaccine induced immunity, the importance of getting childhood infections. And then he shares deeply from his heart with DD profound insights about not having his own family follow his approach, and on what the word truth means. Enjoy the show. Dr. Paul, coming to you from the heart, we're going to touch on the unknown and what to do about it. You know, in the fall, we've typically been worried about flu, it's a seasonal thing. Now, it's not just flu, it's COVID, RSV, and the flu. Nothing has happened yet. And yet, you've sensed this anxiety and tension around at all. So I would encourage you to think about this, make a decision now, before anything happens about what you're going to do. So if they mandate masks, I'm not going to wear them. If their mandates for vaccines, I won't comply. If we have a total lockdown in the state I'm living in. I'll leave the state. I think if we make those decisions ahead of time, there'll be a lot less fear, and you can move through it Evers coming with a sense of confidence and peace. Welcome Richard Moskowitz to with the wind science revealed it's such a privilege to have you on the show. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 1:54 Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you, Paul. Dr. Paul 1:57 I wished I had known you probably about 45 years ago, you were on top of a lot of the information I've had to sort out over the last couple of decades. And you've been on top of this. So I'm really looking forward to talking to you. Right? You have been doing family practice for 50 years, actually, since I was 10 years old. You are working in the homeopathy area for I think about 45 of those years. You've written five books, couple of them on homeopathy in 1992 and 2001. I've just finished going through your vaccines, every appraisal that you published in 2017. That book is so timely for folks who haven't to be listening and haven't heard of that book. It's that one right there. It's so well done. So thank you for that. You've written so many articles homeopathy, vaccines, chronic disease. As we get started, I like to get to know know you a little better. Can you talk about your journey? Maybe if you want as far as right back from childhood, through medical school, and what got you to go towards homeopathy? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 3:03 Boy, that's a good story. Yeah, hi, I just, I never felt right. In medical school. It just didn't. I had ethical problems. But I also had scientific problems. And they were all mixed up together. And it really, you know, it really wasn't until later until I started practicing. It was during the Vietnam era. And I realized that the imagery of medicine is military. That was anti biotics seen anti hypertensives and the war against cancer and it was military and I was active in the anti war movement and put it to me in a clearer way. That was dense, Dr. Paul 3:51 I think back to our residency training. And there's this hierarchy, just like in the military, of the medical student looks up to the intern who looks up to the resident who looks up to the attending. And the orders come from above we follow right. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 4:04 Exactly, exactly. And there were orders that I couldn't follow that I but I wasn't, I was too timid to protest them. I just would have sent myself. When I was a junior in college, I got a traineeship in biochemistry at a Cancer Research Lab in Maine. And an involved was very routine and involve injecting some mice with various chemicals and checking the electro phoretic patterns of their serum proteins, which was a new method at that time. And then you would sacrifice the animals at the end of it, which was maybe three or four a week. And then I just it horrified me. I just felt the routine pneus of it really. I felt like I was being trained to be Dr. Mengele in this place. was in house tickets for mice, Dr. Paul 5:03 pretty other mice are not treated well in medicine, that's for sure. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 5:06 So I would just go to the library and hide out there. I just didn't want to do it. Dr. Paul 5:13 Yeah. Hey, was there something in your childhood that sort of prepared you to be aware of these things, or maybe to be different than the standard medical student. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 5:24 But it's interesting, because I've thought about that a lot. And what I always come up with is my grandfather's death at the age of five or six. And I remember when I saw him in his last days, and he looked really sick, and I took it, that night, I realized that he was going to die, and that I was going to die. And it just and it was shared me, it was a standard of truth that was utterly unprecedented for me. So it just, it just crystallized for me something that was completely unacceptable, and yet completely certain. And I'm sure that had a lot to do with why I became a physician because because I basically, academically inclined, I'm very studious, and a professional life history or philosophy would have probably suited me better. But for some people, I needed to deal with this in some way. And and at the same time, it was so frightening to me that I'm sure it also had to do with my reluctance to study and at the same time, Dr. Paul 6:40 but doctors are all about preventing death. So how did that how did that set you apart from others? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 6:46 Say that, again, Dr. Paul 6:47 we're not actors in general. And we were all taught and we were all about, we're going to keep people alive no matter what. So it's about preventing, about preventing death. But your you went a different route, it seems. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 6:57 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what was a powerful teaching experience. For me a learning experience, who's one of the formative experiences of my life, I'm sure. And, and it continued, like when I was in high school, and I tried out for the football team. And they had us running up and down the field, doing wind sprints, and I was getting really winded. So I went to the doctor by myself for the first time. I was like, 15. And he practiced my chest, and he listened to my lungs. And he sat there very thoughtfully. And really, he said, sonny boy, we can all be Jackie Robinson, let's be crushed, though I was. It liberated me for a feeling that I had to live up to the impossible standards that I had subconsciously set myself is my brother and my father were both very athletic. And so I was able to play for two seasons, and I enjoyed the rough and tumble of the game, and I didn't get hurt too bad, and it was fine. But then at the same time, I got a job as an orderly in the local hospital. And I was cleaning up all this stuff, and Dr. Paul 8:14 we share that experience. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 8:18 And I just had the sense that the needs of patients were overwhelming that and inexhaustible, no matter how much care and love we distilled on them, it was not going to be enough. Yeah. And so again, the same ambivalence was there. I love the way this doctor was with me. He was, and he inspired me. So that ambivalence was basic to my evolution and Dr. Paul 8:46 interesting. So you've had this ambivalence that goes throughout your childhood, and then plays out after during and after residency. You're now practicing as a family practitioner. Were you in solo practice? Yes. So one of the true pioneers of which called the old traditional family doc, exactly. Like you were delivering babies at home and taking family. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 9:13 Yeah, I was out in Colorado, when I started, I got my fellowship in philosophy. I, before I interned and went into practice, I took a fellowship in philosophy I just had to get into something academic that was that I couldn't think about an without even consciously thinking about what I just been through, but somehow it was an asylum that I needed. And and that was that was the time of the the hippies and the counterculture and he's 14 year old kids were running away from home and smoking dope and dropping acid and having sex was low right there and bolded Dr. Paul 9:55 since you preceded by entering into the world of medicine by at least 50 in yours, I'd really be curious. Let's pivot to the topic of childhood vaccines. Because that's such an important topic for our listeners today. Oh, yeah, that that whole schedule has exploded. What was it like when you started practice with regards to vaccines? What was going on at that point? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 10:18 Before I answer that question, I just want to say that it was always an important subject for me. And in the beginning, it was just a gut feeling. And I just didn't like the idea of doing it. I didn't know why exactly other than a lot of the diseases were not that serious, and just requiring people to do it and not being allowed to go to school if they didn't, and it just seemed way out of proportion. Dr. Paul 10:49 Yeah. And were those mandates in place when you started practice? There were Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 10:53 a few, but they weren't enforced that strictly. Especially in Massachusetts, by the time I moved there, that was in 82. It was there. There were a few mandates. But you could the courts had decided in Massachusetts that in order to claim a religious exemption, it was just a personal way to you didn't have to belong to some kooky church or anything. And Dr. Paul 11:17 I was in med school at that point. And I think all we had was the DPT the polio and the MMR. Yeah, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 11:23 the MMR was already lactam in the 60s, I think. Yeah. Dr. Paul 11:29 So when you started practice, were you doing some vaccines? No. No, do you ever do vaccines? Never. So So did you use homeopathy like homeo prophylaxis or not? No, I Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 11:45 think, um, then Dr. Paul 11:46 what was your experience? Here's folks, we got a doctor I'm talking to who had 50 years of practice with families children included, what was your experience with the diseases for which there were vaccines? In other words, presumably, you would have lost a bunch of patients to measles, mumps, rubella, and whooping cough and all those things. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 12:07 No, he did. He didn't, not one. They know that. Those most of those were diseases of children that were ordinary that I had myself, I remember vividly having the measles when I was seven, or eight, or whatever it was staying home from school for a week and my mother waiting on me hand and flick Those were the days when the mother stayed home. There were two paycheck families back then so much. And so I had a grand old time. And then later, I began to study and I found that coming down with and recovering from an acute disease, like the measles, actually protected from developing cancer and autoimmune diseases later in the future. But that was that was quite a bit later. In the beginning, like I said, it was just a gut feeling. And then by the time I went to Boston, I decided that I was going to take a year off and just study. And so I got into immunology a little bit stuff I should have learned in med school, but it really wasn't emphasized at all. And it really impressed me that that basis of coming down with and recovering from an acute illness like the measles, that's an acute phenomenon. It's like the whole immune system is mobilized. And there are all these separate mechanisms that are concerning, and going on simultaneously, with coordination, and the result of all of that all of the cytokines and macrophages and all of that was to expel the foreign organism from the body. And whereas with the vaccine, it's the opposite. It's like you want it you have it has to stay in there in order to keep making those antibodies because you can't achieve real immunity, using one mechanism separate from all those others. Vaccination is a chronic phenomenon, by definition. Dr. Paul 14:26 And your book made that really clear in a very nice way, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 14:31 if I can. But that was just like intellectual. It's still here. I was in practice. And it didn't really hit me until I started seeing the patients with that in mind. And what I found was that there were so many vaccines so close together, that it was very difficult to tell first of all, it was very hard to tell what any specific vaccine was. doing. First of all, notice what we were trying to do is to look for this vaccine and that vaccine, not the vaccination process per se. We don't even think about that. So. So that was one thing in the beginning, what I saw were things that could be related to a specific vaccine because the symptoms were vaguely similar to the disease that it was supposed to be prevented. And by a lot of the vaccines were tripled to begin with. And there were so many being given so often, that it was impossible to tell for sure that it was because of the vaccine because the disease was coming and going anyway. But what stopped what I started to notice by the late 80s, I think it was the kids were reacting nonspecific way. They were reacting, they were more prone to develop whatever to diseases regarding around the neighborhood, or most of the wall. It was making worse, the chronic illnesses that they already had. Dr. Paul 16:09 Yeah, so I wanted to ask you go go back a little bit in your career there at the beginning and leading up to the mid 1980s. Let's say, I don't recall, I was just a kid. And then I was in training. I don't recall chronic disease being very prevalent. I never saw a case of autism growing up. I didn't see a case in medical school. I saw a couple of mild cases of PDD when I was in pediatric residency. And there just were very few chronically ill kids. Did you have that same experience? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 16:39 Yes. And no, I'm going back now to my internship to my medical schools. And what was truly shocking to me about medical school was that I will I grew up thinking about disease as an acute phenomenon that that was something you turn down with, you got over it, or you didn't know or you die. But somehow in Bellevue Hospital in New York disease was the overwhelming something. It was there in the atmosphere of the ward, I could almost smell it when the beds were empty. So I had dystopian fantasies about that. But you're right. On a clinical level, I didn't see a lot of a lot of chronic diseases. It's just that Dr. Paul 17:27 about kids, since you were family practice. You were also seeing adults. And I remember rotating in the VA hospital and everybody smokes and drinks and they've got all the problems related to that. But for kids, do you remember seeing a lot of chronic disease? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 17:42 No, you're right. No. And even when I got to Boston, the main one that I was seeing was ear infections, chronic ear infections, right? What was like, ubiquitous? And no. Dr. Paul 17:56 While you're on that, I got to ask you, how about your personal practice, since you were not vaccinating? In your unvaccinated children, where they're getting all these chronic ear infections, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 18:08 somewhat, but not nearly to the same extent. But that was that took a while to see I just had to accumulate a big number of cases. And the whole thing evolves very slowly. But it was just fortifying me in this feeling like just don't do this, that this is a source of chronic disease. And the perfect example, if you read the book, you probably remember this, but it's the purest example of making worse what's already there. I had a kid that I had seen as a child in elementary school, she had OCD really bad. She was wetting the bed. And I gave her a bunch of remedies. And finally I hit on one, I think it was arsenic amalgam. And it just went away. And she was great. She was essentially symptom free for over 10 years. And then it was time for her to go to college, they required an MMR booster. And within a week, the whole thing came back just like it used to be. It was like, I knew immediately, there was no question in the mother's mind or in my mind, what was happening. And fortunately, the same medicine was extremely effective once again, and she best college no problem. And she went on and got married and had kids of her own. She was fine. But I said this over and over again. Yeah, I Dr. Paul 19:49 know. You mentioned that beautifully in the book that you would see these kids who had chronic conditions who had been vaccinated in some other practice, right come to see you for all you have to be managed. But I imagine, right and you eventually are able to find the right remedy and help them recover. Somehow they get another vaccine or series of vaccines, and they go right back into their chronic problems. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 20:12 Yeah, yeah. Is that it? Dr. Paul 20:16 That is so powerful that statement that you just made. In my case, it was I didn't have the homeopathy remedies, because that's not in my wheelhouse to recover kids necessarily, I Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 20:27 would help kids recover in different ways. And generally, they would ever go back to getting vaccines again. But I imagine if they had similar experience would have happened. The other the other thing that made it invisible, was that in order to show it really clearly, the kid had to be essentially be symptom free for a period of time. And then when they get the booster, it's back. And so the parents see it. And even the pediatrician sees it. It's he's still involved in the case. Right, whereas giving them antibiotics and suppressive drugs doesn't do that. If if you gave them herbs, perhaps or acupuncture was some other thing. might well do the same thing. But But ordinarily, you're still going to get the ebbs and flows of new chronic illness that that is isn't doesn't that conceals it, it makes it somewhat invisible. Yeah. And the other thing is that it would be a simple matter to investigate this claim. By simply let me just say this, that the the diseases involved the ram, the whole gamut, of Pediatrics, of normal pediatrics that, you know, the autoimmune diseases and named neuro diseases and the ADHD and the autism and everything, it was all in the shoot. And it didn't matter which vaccine it was. It didn't matter what disease it was, or how severely the kid suffered from it. The same exact pattern was true. Dr. Paul 22:10 And so that pattern being they could recover with, we copy homeopathy and then if they got vaccinated again, they regressed right back to their chronic. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 22:21 I call it making worse what's already there. Yeah. Except what that omits is that the times when it actually initiates the disease when or it first makes it manifests where before I heard only Bin Laden, perhaps, yeah. Dr. Paul 22:37 Imagine you heard your fair share of stories of kids who are doing fine got a vaccine or a series of vaccines regressed into autism? And what percentage of those kids were you able to help recover? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 22:51 I didn't actually have occasion to treat that many of them but pretty good. I'd say I did well, although like I published a case of an autistic kid that that I treated very successfully, but he was still autistic t he was still handicap he was growing up. He was a nice kid. He was he had a job. He was, by the time I stopped seeing him. He was in his 20s. But he still was gonna need help. He wasn't cured by any stretch. But he was he was capable of living a life. Yeah. And, and I would say that that would be what I would expect. Dr. Paul 23:35 Yeah, there's a whole range of recovery I've experienced from almost complete to always often they get stuck at the Add ADHD, when you're getting recovering a child who was severely autistic, you want to go back to something that I think is perhaps the most important thing you've shared both in your book and alluded to in the beginning of our interview, and that is natural immunity versus the vaccine induced immunity, I think, for our people to understand the difference and how so important it is to actually stay on the natural immunity side of things. Don't just start the immunity with vaccines. You write about that. And it's complicated. When we get into our medical thinking about it, and the cytokines and all that stuff. It can become a little overwhelming. But in just layman's terms, how could you try describing that for our listeners? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 24:27 Sure. There are a number of mechanisms that come into play when their foreign organism develop, you develop an infection from an acute infection, usually with fever. So the first thing you do the mucous membranes of the portal of entry, the place where it comes in are sensitized. And that's so that you can then expel them through the same route. Why sneezing or coughing the same way you acquired it in the first place? then you have macrophages who are wild that are wandering around in the blood and pick up foreign organisms and try to digest them. And you have cytokines, you have these specialized proteins that will signal to macrophages to go where they're supposed to go, or the monocytes, as the case may be. Dr. Paul 25:24 And I use the term PacMan, like for macrophages for people to illustrate is gobbling up whatever infection, exactly, that process is getting the disease out before it ever gets a deep foothold in the body. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 25:38 And then you have the serum complement these proteins that assist that, that process that I forget actually what they do exactly, but they somehow help to clump them and make it easier for the macrophages to do their work. And then you have the cytokines as I said to signals, and then finally, you begin to develop antibodies. And I remember in the case of the measles, the antibodies start to appeared at the same time that the symptoms are appearing. And, and the antibodies are again assisting the process. So it's well coordinated together, you can achieve the expulsion of the virus or the bacterium, whatever it happens to be, by any one of those mechanisms by itself. It's a coordinated process. That's the main thing, Dr. Paul 26:36 right? That first phase where you've got the cellular activity going on with macrophages and all that I think we refer to that more as innate immunity or natural immunity, cellular Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 26:47 cellular immunity. Great. Yeah. And that's what governs. That's what regulates the whole part. The antibodies are special in the sense that they're called the humoral aspect. And they depend on that. Yeah, Dr. Paul 27:03 they're what gives you memory later on. To some extent, there actually is memory at the cellular level now to that's been published. But our prior understanding was you needed the antibodies to have memory. So you could fight the infection in the future. And the whole vaccine industry, correct me if I'm wrong, just focused on antibodies? Yes. And so they're focusing on this last phase of preventing infection? Yes. And the infection has to get into the body and take over and then you get antibodies. So when you do antibodies artificially with vaccines, I think that's the problem, right? You haven't provided the way to keep the infection out of the body. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 27:42 You haven't expelled it, you quite the opposite. You drink deeper into the internal organs of the immune system, and must be there because if it weren't there, it doesn't get encrypted into the cells unless you expel it. So it has to stay there. Yeah. And Dr. Paul 28:05 then, can you explain for folks because I know, let's just take measles as an example, because people are always so afraid of measles. And like you I had measles as a child and I was in Africa. Yeah, it was not fun, but it wasn't horrible. And all our my siblings and our friends got measles. We have lasting immunity. I know if you were born 1957, which was my birth year or before, you don't ever have to go get a measles vaccine, they know that we're naturally protected. Compare that to what kind of protection you get from the vaccine. And where do we go from here, given the fact that we have a whole two generations of folks who are vaccinated as far as their immunity? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 28:47 Yeah, I call it counterfeit, or fake immunity. It's it's it's the shadow the but it lacks the substance. And above all, it lacks this immunity is both specific and specific. That is, you have the specific immunity against the disease that you've already had. But you also have the priming of the immune mechanism as a whole, to deal with whatever infections are going to come about in the future. And in some way that really needs to be investigated. I think that is what's protective. That's what makes it less likely that you're going to develop autoimmune diseases and cancer later in life. And that's what we need to understand that it's ironic that I think vaccines are the way for us to understand that because we know or we should know or we will know, that's one of the main ways that chronic diseases occur. And we know how vaccines work because we've studied we have to study that in order to make them do whatever It is that they do. So it could be a valuable tool for us. Dr. Paul 30:05 Yeah. So if I understood what you're saying correctly, you and I who had measles naturally, we got specific immunity for against measles, but we also got this nonspecific protection, that helps us not only prevent other chronic diseases, but probably if the measles virus was to mutate or change, we would recognize it because of the nonspecific immunity that we got, I think for COVID. Let's pivot to that. And I'm just interested in your thoughts about that. Kids did well, unvaccinated kids, I had a practice with, I don't know, close to 10,000 patients during the early parts of COVID. And not one kid ended up in the hospital, their parents might get a little bit sick kids did fine. I'm guessing that's that same thing they've seen coronaviruses in the past. And so they have that nonspecific recognition of that family of viruses and they just get rid of that. But what are your thoughts about COVID? What's happened where we're headed? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 30:59 Yeah, COVID that's a whole other level of business. Same problem, but Naomi Klein calls a disaster capitalism. I think, I think she would disown my applying it to this phenomenon, but that's alright. That she doesn't own it exclusively anymore. It's public now. Um, but yeah, you have had disaster as the opportunity for various marketable reforms to take place that otherwise would not take place. I think it started even before the COVID when the drug companies made their big offensive to eliminate the exemptions to the vaccines back in 2015 1617 18, there were a few measles outbreaks, and they were trying to eliminate the personal belief in philosophical and religious exemptions, and succeeded in California, for example, yeah, Dr. Paul 32:06 California, New York and Maine were added to the list of Mississippi and West Virginia. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 32:13 Soon, yeah, it's ironic that was true in Mississippi, because that's one of the one of the reddest states and it illustrates the about face that has taken place. Dr. Paul 32:29 So what would your recommendation be for parents? They just added the COVID jab to the childhood immunization schedule starting at six months, as you probably are aware, what would you tell parents if they go into their pediatrician and their pediatrician says there's a new, there's a new variant coming out and these vaccines are they're safe and effective, they've improved them? What would you tell those parents? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 32:53 In Word, I would say don't do it. But I would go on to say that the vaccines are special. This is really the first time that a vaccine has been given in the midst of an outbreak rather than to prevent it in the indefinite future. So that, really, and it's since been found out, it's surely I'm sure it was known even before this, but it's been publicly admitted that it doesn't prevent transmission. So the only effect of the new Mr. mRNA vaccines is simply to treat the illness, essentially, to lessen its severity to relieve the symptoms. So it's a it's a rival of the already existing drugs that do have such an effect, but have been banned because of that reason, too, because they are competing with this new product. So you have a lot of cynicism here because it was clear that I'm sure that they must have known that right at the beginning, but they didn't say so they imply that it would prevent a disease to begin with. And of Dr. Paul 34:11 course, it hasn't really started off by saying they rolled this out during an active pandemic. And you were alluding to the fact that was a big mistake. Why is that? Why is it a big mistake? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 34:23 First of all, there are two two or two main reasons. The first is that they made a lockdown of the society and the reason the shut, they shut down. They locked people in their homes, they couldn't go to work, their businesses began to fail. It became a catastrophic phenomenon for the whole country, such that we the epidemiologist, right from the beginning said don't do this. This is a big mistake. And Dr. Paul 34:55 in retrospect, it sure seemed unnecessary, that's for sure. They were saying you got to keep kids out of school and keep them on masked up and isolated so you can protect grandma. And based on all the conversation we've had, prior to this point, had we let the kids all go to school, they would have developed even more robust natural immunity, and therefore they would have protected grandma, they would have been that shield. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 35:20 And therefore, we wouldn't have needed the vaccine in that. It sounds like a conspiracy theory to say it, but it's obviously the case that that had been true. The outbreak would have been searched by the summer of 2020. Yeah, and and Luke muntanya. He said it very clearly that by vaccinating in the midst of the epidemic, you're leaving SPIE you're prolonging the outbreak, and you're making room for lots of variants to appear. Dr. Paul 35:49 And it is already happened, right? So many they were already they Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 35:53 were already appearing, the virus was already notorious for its mutability, but this made it even even worse. Dr. Paul 36:01 Yep. So when they make that same recommendations, it looks like they're coming soon. But you gotta get this new COVID Jab, they've now addressed new variants babalao, it's just the same problem, right? We're still in the middle of an ongoing, endemic, if you will, it's not even a pandemic, it's this thing is here to stay. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 36:18 Yeah. And I think that, that they, it's their last ditch thing as if they understand that this whole thing is gonna blow up in their face. One of these days, unfortunately, a lot of people are going to die or be crippled. Before we, we figure it out, Dr. Paul 36:37 by crippled by the disease or by the vaccine or the shot rather, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 36:42 by everything by by being poor at a time of lockdown by all sorts of things. We had the most eminent epidemiologist who were saying this rights in the beginning in 2020. And can he get kowski, for example, at the Rockefeller Institute, or and he just said it straight out, he said, Let the kids get it, their risk is practically zero. This is the way we've always dealt with these things. Yeah. Yeah. And he'd been epidemiologists who are pro vaccine thought it was a big mistake. I'm trying to think of who Dr. Paul 37:22 I completely agree with you, as we wrap up, and then DeeDee is going to come get personal with you dig into who you are as a man or if you're a father or grandfather, those sort of things. What would you like to leave as take home message to our viewers, take your vast 50 years of private family practice the world as it is today? What do you want people to know and understand? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 37:45 Mainly, that, I think we need to look at healing in a different way, from simply forcing the body to behave in whatever targeted ways we think it should. But rather than forcing the body to behave, I think we need to stimulate, find ways to stimulate or encourage it to behave and have some appreciation for the natural process that's already there. Rather than trying to see the illness purely as an enemy, Dr. Paul 38:22 like that, what would be the top ways that a person can facilitate, promote, encourage the natural healing process, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 38:30 first of all, by by removing things that are obviously going to poison that. And that's, I think the big topic for us today is chronic disease. That's, that's where we're at, it's exploding. And we need to investigate that. And it would be a relatively simple matter to do it. All we would have to do would be to measure the all cause mortality and morbidity of vaccinated versus unvaccinated, for example, and do that in an independent way that wasn't simply paid for by the drug companies. And then we would learn something and then we could use what we know about the vaccines to teach us how this process gets underway. But anyway, that's more specific than your question. Show. Yeah, just appreciate the healing power of nature of the body as its evolved over these millennia, that most acute diseases with fever are benign and important. And we tend we have the power to overcome them with help, of course, Dr. Paul 39:42 yes. Not the fear of disease, Spore. Yeah. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 39:46 But the chronic diseases, that's a whole different thing, then they're in there. They have a tendency to continue to be there. So we have to treat that in a different way than simply making war on them. Dr. Paul 39:59 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. I'm gonna invite DD who were to come chat with you for a few minutes. And we may have to do this again to tackle chronic disease. Okay, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:10 so tell me a little bit about you. Just before we started talking right now, you had mentioned you have a wife. How long have you been married? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 40:19 Let's see now. Just shy of 40 years. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:23 Oh, wow. That's amazing. So do you have children? Yes. How many? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 40:29 I have one son by a previous marriage. Okay. And with my present wife, I have a daughter, but it's it was my stepdaughter, originally. But I've adopted her. So she say that's nice. And she's now she's like, 50. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:49 Okay. We don't want to reveal your age, Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 40:52 or she has. So we have three grandchildren. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:56 Okay. And that's what I was gonna ask is because I think that's the thing is sometimes people forget that. Just like Dr. Paul, and how many kids and he has grandchildren, I think we forget that. You are still this wonderful man and this person who has a life outside of all of the work you do, especially with being an author and all the things you've done. So tell me about you have a son and a daughter and you have grandkids. Tell me about with your beliefs on vaccines. How have they been with that? Did they just follow in line with you? Or was there ever any? Nope? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 41:31 Okay. No. No, they're think I'm wacko. Okay. They appreciate my style, my my way of beating with patience. They liked that. But they, it's a little different with each one. But generally speaking, I would say that, number one, they don't particularly go for homeopathy. My wife is like, she has used I've used it with her for various acute things, sometimes success and sometimes not. But if she had like a chronic thing of some sort, she wouldn't go to a homeopath. Okay, she likes the philosophy of it, but she doesn't like, she doesn't go for the technique of it. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 42:20 Okay, and that's your wife or your daughter. That's my wife. Okay. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 42:25 My daughter feels the same way. And we're in she's she's married to a scientist who works for NASA. And he loves to talk to me. We have great discussions, but he too, he thinks I'm really out to lunch. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 42:40 I know I'm shaking my head because it's so when you are in that world, and all the people you've treated and all the results and all the things we're seeing, and they're still those people that sit outside of that that Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 42:51 cannot entertain me even more sad. During the COVID. Yeah. Because everybody was getting vaccinated and glad to get it. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 43:06 I know. And so I'm guessing your grandchildren. Are they CDC scheduled vaccinated? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 43:13 I'm not sure exactly to what extent they've followed the CDC routine, they may have a Britain should slightly like my daughter, for example. She got she and my wife to got the original vaccine, the COVID and the booster and one booster and that was it. No more. They're, they're done. So a certain amount of skepticism. Is there about the system? DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 43:42 How do you feel about that? Personally, is that tough that? I'm guessing you did not get the vaccine? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 43:48 No, I didn't. And no, it was a source of some argument with my wife because she said it very eloquently. I think she said, Look, I'm not caring so much about what's going to happen. 10 years from now, I want to have a life right now. I want to travel. And we love to travel. And we haven't been able to. And she's very worried about me getting the COVID I had an autoimmune disease myself about seven years ago that we just sometimes fatal, and I did very well with it. But she's worried that will come back. And indeed, that's been my very general experience with vaccines that they make worse, was already there. So I was worried about it too. So I wore a mask and such. I was quite quite religious about it even although not when I was outside. But if I went to the bank or the grocery store, I would wear the mask. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 44:54 I think that's the thing is and I'm sure you would agree is whatever your choices are. They're your choices. So my next question is if you could do things differently with your life now, if you could go back, would you still pick the same route as a family doctor or knowing what you know about vaccines? Now you have all this knowledge going back? Would you be a pediatrician? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 45:18 No, I think I'd like to just the way it was I, I had a long journey in medicine, and it was pretty torturous at times. And there were when I left, when I graduated from medical school, I left medicine completely. I got a fellowship in philosophy, I went to graduate school. Okay, that's cool. I didn't think I would ever see a patient again. Okay. But when I finally did, and did the internship, and went into practice, and then finally, when I discovered OB oxy, and even before that, what I was doing home births, for example. I loved it, it was wonderful. I wouldn't change it. It showed me a way that I could be part of the medical profession and be proud of it. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 46:05 No, and that's the thing is, obviously you've done that, and you had a an amazing, successful practice. So I think that's part of it. I always asked that question, though, with knowing what we know about COVID and the different things. I always think that there's doctors like yourself who know me and knew what a ton of stuff back then that I always feel like prevention is the biggest thing and I feel like pediatrics is the way to do that. And so many pediatricians are not on that page. So we they, we definitely the world could use more people like you in that space where we could start from the moment that baby is born and teach those parents how to do everything, right. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 46:42 But I'll tell you, I've always loved taking care of old people, too. For a while, after I after I finished my internship, I was for a while I was like taking care of the old folks home that was attached to the hospital. I was the doctor in charge. And I loved that. It was a now that I'm old myself, it just fits right in. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 47:10 That's awesome. So are you completely retired? Or do you still work at all? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 47:13 No, I'm completely retired. Okay. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 47:16 So last question for you is what would you say? Just personally in your life? Why do you think people still have the fear that they do over COVID and the diseases that they feel vaccines could actually help? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 47:33 I think that, in spite of everything, people still revere Doc seresin The technical achievements that it has achieved, in a sense, right? And you can there were plenty of times when the system that I've spent so much time criticizing bailed me out when I was in trouble. Right. And, but with vaccines, it's especially so there is a an almost religious reverence that's attached to that idea. That has been cultivated, of course, by the drug industry, to be sure, but also by the medical profession. And it's sunk in so people like Shona, Saul, and Sabin, and all of those quotes are heroes in the popular imagination, and I can see why I think that it's that, that the belief in vaccines is, is based on a misconception. I'm not fanatical about being anti vaccine, I'm just saying that there's another side, there's a downside to them that we're not looking at. And it's true of all of them. It's true of the concept, not just this particular one or that particular one. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 48:51 I think that's what's tough too, is just because of the way the world is and media and society and all that. The truth. I know the truth, we all know those things. But as long as people have fear, then they're, I don't feel like they hear clearly. And so yes, you're right. They're gonna listen to doctors that think they should vaccinate or listen to the media or listen to those things. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 49:14 I don't want to say that I have the truth. I don't think I have the truth. I have part of the truth. They have part of the truth. You all have some truth. I remember a philosophy professor who happened to be a patient of mine when I was in Santa Fe. He's he said to me, sadly said everything is true. I love that because it really is true. No matter how far out belief is there. There is a certain there is a certain something to it. I'm talking about someone who lives through their teeth and I'm not going to mention any names. But if Yeah, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 50:00 That's the thing and don't use it to for you personally with your wife. And I don't know if it's one or both of your children who they found. Dr. Paul, I talked about this all the time, because he thinks there's one truth. And I'm always like, again, depending on what you feel that you make that your truth for them, their truth was they needed to do this to protect themselves. Right? So do you just in parting words, because we're running out of time, but parting words? What do you say to these new mamas out there that are just really fearful of they, they want to do the best thing, obviously, for their child and the world that Dr. Paul and I work and we have a lot of people who do Homeopathics I was just at a birth with they used Homeopathics throughout the years to help her. Yeah, it was incredible. I was blown away. I've never seen that before. It was great. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 50:54 My first book was based on that. Oh, cool. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 50:58 Love to read that one. What do you say to those new mamas who are trying to make the best decisions for themselves? Who do you tell them? Besides Dr. Pol? Who do you tell them to listen to? What who should? Who should they put their trust in? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 51:13 I would encourage them to do their own research to, to so that when they go to someone, they have a question, they have a question clearly in mind. And then they'll be able to judge whether this person is right for them or not, depending on how they answer it. Right? Yeah, I think people have a pretty good sense of what's going to help them and what's not going to help them. And even though it may be like you say maybe based on a false belief, but it will guide them to do what they need to do at the time, even if it's turns out to be mistaken. So I don't try to evangelize too much with patients. But if they asked me straight out, it's they say, should I should I vaccinate? I would certainly say no, I would advise against it. And these are the reasons. But I a lot of my patients should continue to vaccinate to some extent. I didn't disown them if they didn't go along. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 52:17 Oh, thank God for that. And I think that's the biggest piece too. And we can end with is thank you for that. I'm glad that you said that. Because that's the toughest thing in pediatrics is that if parents don't choose to vaccinate their selves, their children fully in some of these pediatric practices, they are kicked out. And that's why Dr. Pol had such a prominent practice in with unvaccinated families or just honoring informed consent. You. So thank you for that. Thank you for your time and letting me dive into who you are. Man, I wish you I wish you your best and hopefully you can talk your grandchildren into not having your great grandchildren vaccinated. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 53:00 I have a new book coming out and I'm really DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 53:04 can you announce it? Sure. What is it? Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 53:08 It's called sawbones. What's it? It's not Bones was an old term that was used out west to describe just any old doctor and it was a little bit even a little bit derogatory. Even it was like, Oh, he's a sawbones. All he does is amputated limbs and stuff. Like I used it because it's really about basic doctoring in the most basic sense, which is very much what I was involved in. Okay, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 53:36 thank you very much for your time. And I look forward to meeting you in person someday. Dr. Moskowitz, MD (retired) 53:41 Me too. It's nice to meet you. Dr. Paul 53:49 I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world. It's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul. Transcribed by https://otter.ai TextDr. Paul 0:35
Welcome to with the wind science revealed. My guest today is none other than Steve Juncus. He's my attorney suing the Oregon Medical Board for their wrongful termination of my license. We cover his lawsuit against medical mandates here in Oregon, a suit against Governor Kate Brown, we have a deep discussion on public health, what's going on and what to do. And then Didi covers his journey with the vaccine issue as a grandpa, as a family, man, and how this has affected his family. Enjoy the show. Back to you, Paul, coming to you from the heart. My thought today, my topic is self care. When we're going through hard times, and my gosh, who hasn't these past three, three years. If you're really taken down to your knees, and I experienced that, with the loss of my license, and a whole lot of other things that were happening at the same time, I was beyond my own personal limit. And I wasn't useful, really, I wasn't able to really give to anybody, I was so shattered. And you don't have to let yourself get to that point. But if you're feeling really overwhelmed, you're feeling really maxed out. It's time to reach out and really get the care that you need. Because it's when we take care of ourselves, I think about the message on the airplane about the oxygen mask and they're saying put your own mask on first, then you are available to take care of your child, for example. Well, it's no different in life when we are taken down to our knees. We need to take care of ourselves. And it's not selfish to do that. It's actually the most loving and caring thing we can do. Because when we're filled with love, we're there to fill up others. Welcome, Steve joncas What an honor it is to have you back on our show with the wind. Stephen Joncus 2:42 Good morning, Dr. Thomas. It's great to be here. And you're actually one of my heroes, so pleased to represent you. Dr. Paul 2:50 Thank you so much. You are one of mine. I dealt with attorneys. During my career as a pediatrician, I was an expert witness for child abuse cases. Stephen Joncus 2:58 And I recall Dr. Paul 3:01 going up elevators with sometimes there'd be three or four attorneys and they would often be on opposing sides of this case that I was going to go to and they're just chatting like good old buddies like they're on the golf course. And then you get in the courtroom, man and you put on your other hat. I always just found that interesting. But I find you to be one of the most ethical attorneys I've ever run into because your loyalty is just to the cause and to your client. I don't I just don't see you playing games with this stuff. Stephen Joncus 3:31 I've never been a game player. I was hated game playing. And I frankly I have trouble doing what opposing counsel some facts because I'm not a game player and a lot of them banter is did you see attorneys do gameplay? Yeah. Dr. Paul 3:48 That's how it felt to me. I was actually recommended by a judge once I could see they were just doing the nonsense objection and all that stuff. And I'm smiling. The judge was Dr. Thomas, this is serious business. You need to take this seriously. Oh, yes, sir. Anyway, you have a very unique background chemical engineer. 15 year career with Rockwell International, you manage the shuttle mission simulator that you were working with NASA's finest Space Shuttle seven years 50 shuttle flights, then you begin your legal career in 1996. With this focus on intellectual property and civil rights, I am just so thankful that I found you because I couldn't find folks if you don't know this fact, I could not find a single attorney in Oregon to represent me against the Oregon medical board who were after me in really gnarly ways, shall we say? But just to give a little background of some of the things you've done. I know you are involved with passing a ban the jab resolution. Can you tell us more about that? That was fairly recent may it may 2023. Stephen Joncus 4:50 Yes, I ran across this Dr. Sands seller in Florida who had written this ban the jab resolution My COVID vaccine as he was had drafted a proposed ban or a resolution for other counties to follow so he has a number of counties in Florida that have passed this resolution. I think the state of Idaho Republican Party about party in the state of Idaho was passed the resolution and so I brought it forward to the Clackamas County P committee and asked them they have already Clackamas County to pass this resolution. And then they did. I think it has gone nowhere and in Clackamas County, they basically in orders of understand, but I think it's it helps spread the word about how terrible the COVID vaccines are. Yeah. Dr. Paul 5:49 So passing that ban by one party doesn't turn it into law yet, what would need to happen to actually, for example, have the residents of Clackamas County exempt from mandates, because I guess that's the goal. We want to get rid of mandates. Stephen Joncus 6:05 The goal was to outlaw the vaccine, the resolution was to outlaw on the vaccine. So the commissioners, Clackamas County Commissioners would have to pass a statute that would outlaw the vaccines. The ban also calls for the sheriff to seize all the vaccines and in Clackamas County doesn't specifically address mandates. And the problem with mandates is, say you they're banned, but your employers to hire. So you're not immune from that, because of this resolution. Dr. Paul 6:37 But I have heard that sheriffs have the power to operate in that way independently. Is that true? Stephen Joncus 6:43 Yeah, sheriffs have special power under the Constitution for the highest law enforcement officer being a county in the state. They're the only ones that can arrest the governor, for example, I'm not an expert on how that works. That's criminal law that I've never dealt into. But they have vast, unused power. And I hope to see a revolution in every grocery store chain. Dr. Paul 7:09 It's interesting and good to know that there might be one arm of law enforcement that could actually stand for the Constitution of the United States. Yeah. Yeah. Back to Oregon, you have a vaccine mandate case with our former governor, Governor Brown, right? What's the update on Stephen Joncus 7:27 that one? I assumed Governor Brown to stop the mandate that she imposed and lost in the district court who was dismissed. I have a perfect record. Now, of all my cases being dismissed, Dr. Paul 7:42 must be doing something right. Stephen Joncus 7:45 Down to the ninth circuit, the briefing is complete. And or argument is coming up on September 14 in Seattle. Well, you're gonna be busy here at town by person or who also be live streaming on the live circuit, a website. Dr. Paul 8:01 That's fantastic. Maybe you can provide that link for us, and we'll provide it for people. I think getting rid of vaccine mandates would be the first step to getting rid of this tyranny of forcing people to take dangerous products. It just has to stop. Let's pivot to our case. I honestly depend on you for the legal aspects of this. But for folks who might be new to my story 2019 I published an article it was the large vaccination vac study of data from my practice that showed vaccinated patients were faring far worse in all health outcomes than the unvaccinated. And a few days after that was available online. I got an emergency suspension of my medical license I was a threat to public health was their rationale. And basically, they ended up taking my license illegally. And I'll let you take it from there because you were the only person I could find in the state of Oregon willing to help me fight the Stephen Joncus 8:58 medical board. It was interesting when I first brought up your case, because so many others were critical of Kohler vaccines, but they see they're not anti vaxxers. They're, they're now talking about other vaccines. But those same people now that we've learned so much about how bad that go with vaccines are, they have looked into childhood vaccines and are now anti vaxxers which is terrific. And so, for example, Dr. Gould I talked to Dr. Asa Tochka, Dr. Gold a lot. And she told me that I'm not sure I'm on board with that. Maybe she is now but so Dr. Paul 9:38 you're talking about Simone gold of the long goal. I forget that she FLCC Stephen Joncus 9:44 emeritus from my doctors Dr. Paul 9:46 that she's frontline. That's right, America's frontline doctors. Stephen Joncus 9:49 And anyway, but then I read your book. Then I started thinking about what the Board did and it just it made no sense to me that the you You have a duty to your patients was being told by the board who had no duty to your patients on what you can tell your patients. And that just fundamentally wrong. They abused the system. They sent out charges that were false in order to smear you, they intentionally tried to smear you they are they're trying to intimidate every pediatrician in Oregon to march to their orders on childhood vaccines. And that is the it's hard to find a a better example of a tyrannical organization than the Oregon medical board. They are under kind of now their defense to the lawsuit that i We filed is that they're absolutely I mean, you cannot see face. And they want that point. You the district court, or they are just like a judge sitting on the bench. And folks out there understand that if you're in a lawsuit and you lose a lawsuit, you can't sue the judge. Because you lost the loss, you can appeal his decision, but you can't sue him personally. That's what absolutely is. And there's the judge made law, that these boards that control professions like nursing, and gambling and doctors, all sorts of other medical professions are just like judges, they judge them by their own profession. And they reached decisions, suspending licenses and things like that. And you don't want to judge these sued a lot of being sued at all, if He suspends a license for some malfeasance fine doctor, but they've they because they have no there's no control over them. They are not accountable to the public, they've gone out of control. And that judge made law that they are immune, the judges or the members of the border are immune to searing needs to be overturned. Because you can't have a tyrannical organization like this. That is not responsive. Yeah, Dr. Paul 12:17 yeah. That accountable to no one aspect of medical boards is truly something that once they decide they're going to target an individual as they had for me, and they've done this to so many other doctors. It's not over medical malpractice or shady character issues. I mean, boards 3040 years ago, primarily, we're going after doctors who are working intoxicated doctors who were sexually abusing their patients under anesthesia, it was that sort of egregious behavior that needed to be controlled, of course, for the benefit of the public. Now, it's just morphed into, you have to do things our way or else censorship, silencing. And really, they play this game of standard of care. So if you're not practicing standard of care, then you are in violation of medical board policies. But they've taken that to an extreme that makes no sense because you would have no innovation ever. Stephen Joncus 13:14 If you can't provide Dr. Paul 13:17 better ways to do things, which was exactly what my data showed. It was like folks, and actually that data was at their request. That's the most incredible thing about this. So which we're really fighting them on federal constitutional law, aren't we? Stephen Joncus 13:35 Yeah. Are you have a free speech, right? We're in federal court. We serve Federal Claims for violation of free speech and for violation of your due process on a fortunately, they summarily suspended you they violated their own laws in doing that. So they are outside their authority, which is one reason they should be held liable here because they may only have the authority granted to them by the legislature. And when they suspended you on an emergency basis without filing simultaneously filing a complaint, or the law requires that they simultaneously filed a complaint and they did not do that for another four or five months circle. That's the or at the outside their authority in there for judge made law. It says that's that is a time that medical boards can be sued. Also, it's not just the board members, if we sue the individual investigators and investigators under even the judge rate law do not get absolutely but the district of Oregon gay, the investigators actually wish is contrary to ninth circuit precedent. So they are pretty vulnerable on appeal. Yeah, Dr. Paul 14:59 the whole costs cept that somebody can be completely above the law, absolute immunity, you can do whatever you want, you can destroy. You can fabricate things, or you can basically break the law yourself and be immune. It just doesn't even make sense. Stephen Joncus 15:13 It's all American. And it's there's a lot of things like that go on right now with the journey that's taking over our world. Yeah. Dr. Paul 15:23 So to pivot from my specific case, I've just been shocked with the COVID. These few years, we've experienced how much power public health authorities have to give vaccine mandates for something that's not even a vaccine, something that's clearly now known to be harmful, and yet they just carry on. What do we do legally to maybe change that power structure, it seems very imbalanced to me. Stephen Joncus 15:49 So I think probably a long battle of continuing to hammer away my case on the vaccine mandate in Oregon is one of them. And then I think as time goes on the walls, house, a car is a both is starting to crumble. It's really a public perception and a public knowledge issue. The public has become more and more aware. And when that happens, there'll be a clamoring for a change. There are a lot of attorneys across the country who are attacking this problem in multiple ways. Not meeting with a whole lot of success yet, except in the case of religious exemptions. Those cases have been pretty successful where employer refused to give a religious exemption and just fired the employee or gave them a religious exemption. And so we can accommodate you. So we're firing you anyway. Those kinds of cases are the ones that are winning the most. But this will become, I believe, much, much bigger 1000s time of the year event of tobacco litigation. So sting products, liability, prep, tobacco litigation, rocked the country and rocked the industry. And there were lawsuits everywhere. Everyone was waiting on the class that this will turn into that. Because Pfizer was Devin and lager were fraudulent. They knew what they're doing as willful abuse. They knew that these were bad drugs when they put them out. A very interesting thing that I learned not long ago is that these are really this is really a DoD program. Department of Defense, which is shocking. In the intelligence branches of our government. We're leading it, not the health branches of our government. And Brooke Jackson sued in a False Claims Act, Pfizer behalf of the government for defrauding the governor. And he was amazing. The response you learned a lot from the shots. Pfizer said all we had was a manufacturing contract from the Department of Defense. We didn't have to test for see where we didn't have to it wasn't in the contract. Wow, government came in and said the same thing. They couldn't have defrauded us because they were required to test. They weren't required to give us any efficacy or safety data. So all you've heard about all this testing that was done was just our rooms. He was a fraud, the entire effect. And Pfizer, one of our use case was dismissed and is now on appeal. Dr. Paul 18:46 So Pfizer, Maderna our government, they're in cahoots. They're working together with this program. How are they able to roll this out to the entire world? Stephen Joncus 18:56 I'm not a psychologist. I bet we have Dr. Paul 19:02 mass what's the term mass psychosis that term? Out up? Yes. Stephen Joncus 19:05 I think that's exactly what's going on. They it was a propaganda works. Yeah. Being there was a massive propaganda campaign. They spent billions trying to persuade you how dangerous COVID was, and the thing to do the only thing to do was a vaccine. Yeah, they spent billions to just terrified by tending to agree with suggestions that the images we saw on TV were all we're all made up. They were set up by the Chinese. Then there were set up in Italy. All these people dying in the streets to stare us today. Yeah. It's just not an epidemic of Milan. So because people were scared they can fly. Yeah. And there was all sorts of games played You to be a good citizen, you have to take your COVID. To prevent Chile, Grandma, you have the COVID base, right? All these mind tricks that persuaded people to take the vaccine, the COVID vaccine, that was basically a bio weapon that we're left with, Dr. Paul 20:19 perhaps more than half the population in the United States still convinced that the right thing to do is to listen to the authorities to keep getting your boosters, maybe it's not quite half that are going to get more boosters, people are waking up. But I'm so shocked with the my own profession, doctors, how few seem to be aware of what's actually going on. So they too at appears have fallen prey to the propaganda hot think about our public health. There's always a doctor in charge of public health. And they're running this narrative to the population here in Oregon. My God, it's just constant still get your boosters, they managed to put the COVID Jab on the back childhood vaccine schedule. Is it just we have to have a ground rising of the population versus how do we change the minds of the professionals who should know better? I would think so. That's a hard question. Stephen Joncus 21:19 I mean, his highest is mind boggling. There what's happening? It is because it's not yet in our human brain that is tribal. And that once it goes in, once someone goes into direction, they'll stay with the tribe and not change their people. Doctors can be intimidated by their corporate bosses, who set a policy and they have to follow that policy or lose their job. And so that's a huge incentive to just rationalize why what you're doing is okay. Again, I this is a lot of psychology. I'm not an expert. There are few people like you and like Sivan, gold, for example, who refuse and fewer Cory Doctorow Macola and Dr. Cole and Idaho who generally were in the head, how do they relate independent? Dr. Merrick, they're independent doctors not controlled by by big medical systems, at least they had associations, but the big medical systems didn't have a leverage over them. And they also work with doctors who saw what was behind the herd. saw the wizard behind the curtain and getting by it. Yeah. Dr. Paul 22:39 I thought that was profound when you said we're tribal. I think that's been the most shocking for me. I was raised by missionary parents very liberal. I was a lifelong Democrat just because of my upbringing. And then when I saw an entire party that used to stand for the little guy that used to stand for everybody's rights, those who are least able to defend themselves, actually choose the side of Big Pharma on the vaccine program that was clearly harming the little guys, everybody, actually. And I guess it's tribal AI is, but it's, it doesn't make sense other than this massive propaganda, as you said, Stephen Joncus 23:16 and there's really lots of parallels to 1930s. Germany, one of the things I like is if you ever wondered whether you would have opposed the Nazis, if you lived in 1930s, Germany, if you didn't oppose the COVID vaccines, you would have gone along with the program with the Nazis. And you have been you would have in some of you would have been some of these talks now. We're who our audience are, we're gonna have doozy acid Nasus so it's still inexplicable to me how the humans can do that. But it obviously happened. 1930s And as we're seeing that happen again, yeah. And it's worse now, because this was really George Orwell's 1984. Coming to life coming true. We are in that transition period between free free people. And the totalitarian nightmare of was depicted in 1984. Big brother in full control of us, that's that that is possibly not far away, and who knows not gone past the point of no return. Dr. Paul 24:32 Okay, so with that horrible thought, you've given this a lot of thought clearly. What do you think is the best way forward for Oregon and for the country? You could go to the world if you like, but let's start local and expand your best case scenario of how we get out of this Orwellian 1984 nightmare. Stephen Joncus 24:53 That's theater starts with people, individuals in your circle, talking to them trying I persuade them showing that habit is paying people waking people up, to not comply and to resist every opportunity. Because we're valence and the Mr. Global I like that term for who it is it's trying to run the world Mr. Global. Catherine. Austin Fitz. That's her job for who's trying to run the world is Mr. Glow. Mr. Global, there's a few people relative to the population. We're more powerful than they are except that we're not all marching in the same direction. So it's a matter of from the bottom up then is there's all sorts of avenues for that was a political Avenue here in Clackamas County. I became a PCP PVC committee person for the first time in 2020. And there are so many news PCPs in Clackamas County that were awake, that we completely voted out, the old leadership of the Republican Party in Clackamas County. Dr. Paul 25:57 Interesting. Tell me what a PCP is Stephen Joncus 26:00 a precinct committee person. So that is ground level person who, in the Republican Party, the same thing on the Democrat party, they vote for the leadership in our county, and then some of the GCPs we don't delegates to the convention or again, and then some of the PCPs and the applicant of action, or, again, our delegates to the national convention for public part. So it's, and there's what's called the PCP pyre, it was jammed up by someone in Arizona, I forget his name. The idea is to change your Republican Party is from the bottom up to get rid of the new the party and the rhinos who have gone along with the impairment of our natural lens. The A lot of this dates back to the Patriot Act. What the government can do now is date but nice back to the Patriot Act, which was passed by both parties study was pushed by the Republican Party were led that allows our diligence agencies to basically a science and they violated that. And now we're actually in a what's called, I think, fifth generation warfare. The United States government is in a war with its own view. It's a war over your mind. Or Malala talks about this a lot. And and as an actor, most certainly Facts The Colbert because COVID was a propaganda campaign can pay for your mind swayed you have things that that were not true, persuade you to obey them. And the thing we cannot do is obey who we have to resist the no one ever comply their way out of maturity. And the only way out of maturity is to knock the client. Yeah, Dr. Paul 28:01 that takes you right back to the Boston Tea Party and the founding of this country, doesn't it? Yep. We seem to have forgotten all the sacrifices made through the centuries now for this country's freedom, and we're watching it potentially evaporate in a very Stephen Joncus 28:19 fast, short period of time. Dr. Paul 28:23 So I'm very nonpartisan at this point. I just want freedom. I want everybody to have equal opportunity and this country to get back to those roots, not a race route, not none of that just total freedom as it was idealistically written into our Constitution. Granted, some people say those people have owned slaves and yeah, I'm not trying to go there. We can do better when we know better and we should certainly should know better by now. How do we get away from this? You said it we're being pitted against one another so that the those in power can carry on with their agenda while we're busy fighting each other Democrats and Republicans and racial things and sexual orientation things and on we've got all these things. Stephen Joncus 29:11 All those things are being instigated by Mr. Flow. That's not the current talk about race. I'm transgender. That's not coming from the population. Those are things that have been so to buy Mr. Globe, to divide us to destroy the nuclear family so that we will become dependent on them. These are all things that lead to their increased wealth and power. Yeah. So it's, it's not that we should stop Are you or their neighbor across the street? Why are we better and about this? Yes. Why is Mr. Global and the cult that controls this country? Why are they how do we stop that that See issue does they? The our country is now in the hands of a cult. I Dr. Paul 30:08 think I maybe figured out what you were trying to say about getting involved and resisting. So if Republicans Democrats are like, who want to stand for the ability to have the freedoms you've become accustomed to, within our own parties, we get in there at the grassroots. And we start putting people who are thinking clearly in, in the infrastructure, so that we develop, hopefully, in the political system, some common sense and some wisdom, and then to resist, but, folks, pretty soon you're gonna get some real personal back and forth between Steve and the Hoover who's going to take over the last part of this interview. So don't leave this discussion. It's going to be fascinating. We're going to hold your feet to the fire, Steve. But before I exit, I want to give you a chance to maybe wrap it up. We've touched on a lot of grand, huge issues. What's the most important thing you want our listeners to be aware of? Stephen Joncus 31:05 I guess, it's you have to resist and to inform yourself, but resistance you have to resist to stop the security stick, you know, as you cannot comply. Yeah. And for it, it's become a partisan issue, obviously. And that's part of I think, and that's because of the tribalism, Democrats, Democrats, Republicans, Republicans, look at the progressives that are out there leading like Naomi will read what she asked us your progressive. Read daily, well, she was acquitted in campaign advisor, and a Trump hater. Read Sasha stone, listen to Sasha stones substance at your reverses. She was a leftist and a Trump hater until 2020. And she discovered that she has been lied to by the people. And she was so she has very interesting, insightful. So I guess, besides resisting, it's important to to find places that get you information that that is revealed. And the places the Sasha stone by I've done been Josie to Sasha stone light now and Wolf, then there's this website called conservative treehouse.com, is also called the last refuge and is an anonymous guy there who runs that website, who is on top of and is 100%, almost 100% correctly got everything about the politics of the situation is very revealing, as to what's going on in with even Republicans in Congress, I would recommend those three sources of information. Two of them are from former progress, or I think neither we will still call themselves progressive folks who are progressive, even and conservatives should listen to you should look at what Naomi Wolf and Sasha stoners you because I think they're variants. Yeah. And I think Dr. Paul 33:19 when you get down to the real truth of the matter on whatever issue, it might be, it will resonate, as, but you have to take your blinders off in my in my world, and you've joined me when it comes to the lawsuits, we're doing the vaccine world, I think one of the public figures who's speaking most clearly about what's actually going on as RFK Jr. is and to his absolute detriment as far as a career as a politician, that's such a hot topic. It's almost like, you've got to be insane, to go there. But he just speaks the truth. And it resonates, if you'll listen carefully to what he as an attorney, he's an attorney in the environmental world. I think he just stumbled on the fact that oh, my gosh, vaccines are one of the biggest environmental threats to young immune systems. And so it just fit with his environmental work. So keep your minds open, folks. And yeah, Steve, I want to thank you so much for being willing to take on the legal work that is needed, for me personally, but for our country and for freedom, that you are truly one of my heroes. And now we're going to have some fun. I'm going to bring on DD Hoover and she's going to get into your heart a little bit. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 34:33 Okay. Hi, Steve. Thanks for joining me. Stephen Joncus 34:38 Hi didi. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 34:39 So we obviously know each other because of Dr. Paul and what you're doing for us right and I want to first of all I want to thank you for that. So getting when I'm when you're working with somebody like we are I'll I just see like Doc said how great of a lawyer you are and how hard you work for what you believe in And but you're also a husband, a dad and a grandpa of what, just a few days now? Stephen Joncus 35:07 Yeah, August 3, and I was born in the Chicago area. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 35:12 Oh, Chicago area. Okay. So my question is, I'm going to dig in and find out just a little more, personally, about you and how who you are has has been affected by what you're going through right now. So what were your experiences? Prior to working with Dr. Paul, prior to COVID, and mandates and so forth? What were your experiences or knowledge of vaccines? Stephen Joncus 35:37 Oh, I assume vaccines were a bit. I had no knowledge that that there is a risk with vaccines, and never looked into them never had a reason question them never had a reason to question what kind of vice doctors gave up a little bit of needling there where chiropractors are much better at resolving natural things that happen to your body and doctors are really so good at giving you advice on health issues. They're really good at, in general, you're really good at fixing broken bones. These catastrophic injuries require emergency keeping your DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 36:19 child alive, keeping kids alive, curing diseases, different things. Yeah. And that's that's what the medical system in the past has been, like we all hear all the time is a sick care system versus a welfare system. Do you mind sharing how many kids you have as a bother? And if you did you vaccinate them? Just like you were told to? We had Stephen Joncus 36:41 two kids, my daughter's 29. And they were vaccinated. My theory adult think you're the 90s there were 193 96. B, the number of vaccines was less than it is tonight. But no reason not to and matter of fact, with a couple months ago, I apologize to my son for getting into vaccinated because I think he is mild indications of vaccine injured with really bad skin issues at some future of the world. But I wish I had no, I don't know how would it go at the die? Is at 96. But I DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 37:18 wish I know. Right? And I think that's the piece for us as parents is that there was no information to CDC, all those things. They don't do any research. They don't tell you it could happen. And one thing that I've noticed through the years is that there's vaccine injury and there's Fash vaccine effects. And effects aren't really looked at the eczema, the ear infections and minor things that aren't going to kill your child, but they will affect their overall health. So it sounds like you've looking back, you may have seen some of those things. But unless you like you said unless it was drawn to your attention, because when our kids are that much older now, I don't know that we remember every fever they had after a vaccine, how were they cranky? Did they react? You probably don't remember those things, or Stephen Joncus 38:04 I don't because I was so distant from that my wife was the one that was close. I never knew if they actually had a vaccine or not. It was such a visit. And I didn't know whether they even had a vaccine. My wife tracked all that closer, but I don't think she cracked it that close. And I use my daughter, she's got to ask you to prove it. So the childhood vaccines, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 38:28 right. And that's the thing, though, is that back then, at that time, which is not that long ago, but there were those things they aren't. And that's the thing is the more they add to the schedule, the more we're seeing all these things. And that's what's unfortunate is that it wasn't maybe prominent enough back then and enough injuries, enough issues that anybody could really be aware until doctors like Dr. Paul and Dr. Sears and other people started seeing things happen to our children and becoming less healthy. So knowing what now about vaccines, would you have done things differently? Stephen Joncus 39:04 Oh, no vaccines at all. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 39:06 Okay, so do you remember? And can you honestly say that? Can you say what? Okay, oh, I'm curious. Because that's the thing being in the position that you're in and all that you've had to learn in order to represent these people. But it makes me wonder I had interviewed somebody else. And somebody asked me later after the interview and said, you asked this particular person and they said, Oh, they wouldn't do any at all. But she's like, how do you know is that just off the cuff? How do you know if they really wouldn't do anything at all? Um, how would you answer that? Stephen Joncus 39:39 Oh, I have a current situation where my daughter in law told me that unless I was vaccinated against pertussis I couldn't see my grandchild for six months. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 39:54 Okay, repeat that one more time. Stephen Joncus 39:57 My my daughter in law has told me My wife, then unless we're vaccinated for pertussis, we can't see our new granddaughter for until she's six months old. Wow. So I have to be recently vaccinated because she had a cat bite and she got a tetanus shot at the same time when she got the cat bite. This is maybe four or five years ago. So as I understand that, the Pertussis vaccine is combined a tetanus vaccine. So she's been recently vaccinated, but I'm not going. National Oh my gosh. So DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 40:34 that's really what I'm going to talk about too, with you is you're in this big professional fight for Dr. Paul, and for a lot of people to be able to have freedom from that and to be so closely connected to someone who's buying into all of that. Stephen Joncus 40:48 How does that make you feel? Makes me feel sad that I can't get through to her or my son? I think yes. frustrating. Very frustrating, because I keep looking for the magic bullet. Yeah, well, what are the new arguments that will make a difference? I keep sending them see cursus publications, which, and he's transitioned from being COVID, hacking Makoa vaccines to now attacking childhood vaccines, which I was terrific because he has a lot of value because he collects information and puts it together and ask questions that the others don't ask. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 41:34 So what I was then going to say is, so what's the feedback? Like when you do some things? What's the relationship now? Has it been harmed? Because you've said you won't get the vaccine? Or is there still an openness between you and your son? Stephen Joncus 41:51 He does want to talk about it. But there's also the it's not an immediate issue because they don't live down the street, right? In Chicago, so I'm just not gonna fly here. Right? For a while. My wife's there right now. Okay, because to help out my daughter in law, then my son just came home. Least, she'll be there for much of this month, we don't know exactly where she's coming back with, you have to go to me in September for a wedding. But my basically, my entire family, to my daughter and my siblings, my parents and my siblings, children are on the brainwash side of all of these issues. They're all brainwashed. And I'm the black sheep in the family, so to speak. And it doesn't matter what the issue is climate change, Republican versus Democrat, vaccines, wars, for on the opposite side of all these issues, it seems. And it's, it's perplexing to because I wish I knew more psychology. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 43:00 I have to wonder though, I've had lots of training and different things. And it's, I'm still stunned. And I work with a lot of people and wellness coach regarding communication and how families can try and come together. And like in your situation, if they're going to have their hard stand. All you can do is love and be there and pray that nothing happens to their children based on their beliefs. So my last question is, I would like for you to share, if you will, your personal feelings like how you feel as a dad and the grandpa about the fact that government has control seems to have more control over the decisions that parents make for their children. So I haven't heard it said in this episode, but informed consent and what the Oregon medical board is doing to doctors and specifically Dr. Paul, what happens for you, you're out there as a lawyer and you're doing all the professional peace, but what's happening in your heart and your soul, knowing that somebody else could take away a child because of a parent's choices. Stephen Joncus 44:03 Oh, I'm furious. absolutely furious. And the way I express that could be this look, this is actually worse than what the doctors in Nazi Germany did. This is worse. We need a Nuremberg Q trial. And we'd hate the public hang isn't necessary. That's my that's how angry I am. Okay. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 44:34 And that's thank you for your honesty. If anyone gets hung around here, guess where they're gonna go? I thanks for that. Because I think that's the piece is to hopefully we can take all of our anger and all the things that are happening and for me just being how scared I am for some of these children. That, again, that parents who are raising their children that doctors don't raise our children, lawyers Don't raise our children, not you, but another lawyer that that you're going to fight against is going to tell you that all these people have these rights. And they're not who goes home with these kids. And they're not the one who's raising these children the expenses of taking care of a child with autism, or who's sick. And so I think that's the thing that Stephen Joncus 45:22 I feel and you DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 45:22 can say yes or no, but I feel like that's what you are fighting for. I feel like what you're doing now is so important, because you're not afraid to fight these people. Is that kind of what keeps you going? Stephen Joncus 45:35 Really is much more rewarding to doing this work than any other work I've done? Well, yeah. Because of all the people who appreciate, you know, express appreciation, like he just did. For what I'm doing. It's really rewarding. I've never had standing ovations before when I go to speak. And I never say no, I'm sorry. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 46:00 You do now. Stephen Joncus 46:01 Yeah, if that's happened, for a while there, all I had to do is I assumed government say I sued Governor Brown and house like, crazy and, and the suit up the chair. That's entirely you for me. I was lonely attorney working in the trenches. You're not DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 46:21 lonely anymore. But don't you still feel like you're in the trenches now? Stephen Joncus 46:26 Well, because this definitely, yes. There's a lot of there's a lot of grinding away these issues and trying to figure out the levers that might change someone's mind, who is deeply the mesh in sleep. propagandize? I wish I could find the levers, they would change war minds have changed minds. It's hard. No, but I'm just searching for those locks. And some respect that, for example, I'm trying to persuade judges. And these are people that I had to have respected didn't respect, but I can't seem to get through to them, at least in the district of Oregon. But with was so self evident, and honest. And I think though, DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 47:24 I'm gonna give you some advice. And so just don't quit. I think you'll find those levers, we talk about buttons and pushing buttons and lifting levers and making changes move all of that, I think you're doing that I every time, I've heard people like within the freedom group saying that, how much it helped for them to hear what you're doing, just knowing that somebody is fighting for our children and isn't gonna back down and is going to help people like Dr. Paul. Continue to educate, continue to fight, continue to do the things that will change one mind at a time. Every time we go to a conference, every time you stand up and speak everything that you do for us. It changes it's moving. Unfortunately, it doesn't feel like it's doing it as fast as the other side is bringing people on, but I honestly believe will win. And honestly, it is because of people like you, I hope you when you get that. And I feel like probably the best motivator you have is the fact that you're you're gonna have grand grandchildren in this world, you're you've got kids who have been affected by the vaccine, and no, and you didn't know and when you know you do better. So I think that's probably the strongest thing you have going for yourself. So thank you very much. I have a last question for you. So what do you say to all of these other lawyers out there that are on the other side, or lawyers who are believed like you do, Steve, but they're afraid of losing their careers or they're afraid of having their own name bashed or slammed? What do you say to them? Stephen Joncus 49:08 I try to tell them the truth. I try to give them the most persuasive things that I've read. I have collection and I have a document of about 60 pages is chock full of links, oh, things that I collect when I as I read and I will handful a stand a handful to somebody and try to change their mind. But there are those people who are agree with me, but they're just in situations in bigger firms that politically won't go there. Right. So they their hands are tied unless they decide to jump out and go out on their own and I hope more of them will do it. I was when this came along. I was at Alicia, are you work for myself? Yes. I was still working for the firm that I worked for in Portland with the last 2001 for 2016 There's no way I could have done this. And if I was handcuffed, financially handcuffed to that job, then that was a barrier to write to do that. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 50:13 And I would think it would be scary for just a lot of people in general because it standing up for what you believe in many times, like you're going through right now standing alone, you it's just like what Dr. Paul had to leave his practice and the stand alone because of what he believed in. So, thank you very much. Thank you for letting me interview you. You truly are an amazing man. And if anything we can do that supports you or helps you or same thing and we'll use some of your links. I have a lot of people that ask about children who are being can't go to school or do different things or, and I always give them your name and your number to help because I know that you're willing to fight for people who can't fight for themselves. Stephen Joncus 50:56 Yeah, hi, just apparently to grow my practice. I just need myself a knife. DeeDee Hoover LMT, PMT, CCT 51:01 I need to get some of those other lawyers to jump ship and come with you. Alright, thanks for joining me, Steve. Stephen Joncus 51:08 All right, thank you, didi. Have a great day. Dr. Paul 51:16 I look forward to running together with the wind at our backs, revealing the science that gives clarity in our world. It's full of propaganda and misinformation. Visit our website, doctors and science.com Sign up. Donate if you can. Your support makes a difference. And let's make this the weekly show the world has been waiting for. Thanks for watching. I'm Dr. Paul. Transcribed by https://otter.ai |
Archives
April 2024
Categories |